How Games Represent Work

[@superdude10000]

Hey all, couple of notable things I want to share. These games are all indie games with some rough edges (not Papers, Please, it's perfect), and I'd like to share them here. They didn't really fit into the structure of the video, so I want to give you the honest downsides here. Shipbreaker and Potionomics are both short. Potionomics does NOT have an endless mode where it goes on forever, I got that wrong. So once it ends, it's just kind of over. There is a hardcore mod that exists if you want to push it further, but Potionomics is a game that ENDS, which is a little out of character for these work games. Shipbreaker is a game that, as I said twice in the video, I have beat three distinct times, but that belies something. I beat it three times because that endless content doesn't really hold up to the story based content. As I said, the ships get very very massive by endgame, and there's no way to turn back the clock and try some of the smaller vessels. You're stuck with huge vessels, and there isn't enough variety in those later ship types for you to be cool with that... forever. The endless mode is not a true endless mode either: it's more a weekly challenge where you scrap a ship as fast as possible whilst completing challenges to earn points for a scoreboard. But that's only weekly. Perhaps this is the tradeoff of these story based work games: whereas you can play Powerwash or Stardew forever, these games have an ending in mind that you're not really supposed to pursue past that. Food for thought.

[@rawallon]

Good cause Im hungry

[@MissingBoxcar]

Hey, I came across this video and noticed your interest with HS:Shipbreaker. Was curious if you'd be interested in discussing its real life message with a real union worker

[@jbthekeeper2509]

Technically you can always go back to smaller ships, just scroll down..... But I get your point, I just wish that instead of rushing story into the game they put more time into adding more variety into ships. But that's just bog standard Early access problems I guess. But I still like playing it when I have no idea what to do

[@keithtorgersen9664]

I wanted to ask if you would have a contrasting opinion regarding the large scale entrepreneurial games like the Tycoon series.

[@cate01a]

What the fuck potionomics is not short. 20+ hours tediously mindlessly repeating the basic easy routine over and over and over and over and over.

[@Marco_diPasquale]

Honestly surprised you didn't touch on how so many of these work simulators provide an idealized version of work that's free of alienation/estrangement from the end product of our labor. And how the popularity of these games demonstrates that most people are perfectly willing to work, as long as that work is intrinsically rewarding--- as long as that work is a direct representation of the worker's personhood, whether that's a carpenter building a chair, or a surgeon performing a heart transplant. The wider problem is that most modern jobs are incredibly dumb, unfulfilling, and probably shouldn't exist in the first place.

[@BusinessWolf1]

If those useless jobs didn't exist the global economy would collapse because a lot of people aren't willing to upskill for better access to better opportunities. We're gonna start seeing a lot of people pissed off that they can't do the bare minimum to survive anymore in the future.

[@rya1701]

​@@BusinessWolf1the problem here is that people need to work and compete just for basic human rights like food, water, shelter

[@CamelliaFlingert]

i'm playing those games not because i love this type of work and i do not have the motivation/will/passion to do at least some kind of work, i don't like working at all, even if jobs were ideal, it's still a JOB not an entertainment as games, you're not working by playing games, you're resting and having fun, entertaining yourself

[@shadowkyber2510]

Why don't most people just go do a trade then? Even with a physical outcome you still get sick of it. I think it's the combination of having a repedative job with time restrants is what makes work unenjoyable, so you're bored and rushed. These games normally don't rush you

[@CamelliaFlingert]

@@shadowkyber2510 in most cases work is something you SHOULD do but not something you WANT to do, feel the difference? you can't do only what you like and being able to survive

[@polifemo3967]

I think we make games about working because working is FUN. The problem is either alienation or a bs job

[@CamelliaFlingert]

no, working is not fun, i playing games because it's doesn't feel the same as our reality and i feel myself the same bad with "working" games as being forced to work in real life, doesn't feel as something i want to play and enjoy but rather feels like a task which you should complete. I hate routine and games helps me to escape from it, what the point of playing the games to do the same routine things you do in life?

[@Mag_ladroth]

@@CamelliaFlingert That is what the concept of alienation at work means. So the he is right working is fun as long as you are not alienated

[@PEDROGARCIA-qj3gr]

I think is fun depending if you like it or not, I don't like talking to people by phone, so I don't like my current job, but know people who actually like that.

[@PEDROGARCIA-qj3gr]

​@@CamelliaFlingertcause you don't like your work and you believe every job is just as sh*tty

[@CamelliaFlingert]

@@PEDROGARCIA-qj3gr my job? i don't have a job to begin with, i hate every single one job, because job is a job, it's not a hobby, it's something you SHOULD do, not something you doing because YOU WANT to do it, it's a force no matter what, and i don't like to do anything and unable to do anything, so i'm just waiting for my death in this capitalistic world where you can't survive if you're not able to work and live that type of life

[@ThePiachu]

Space Station 13 might be an interesting twist on the job game. It's a multiplayer game where you take on a role on a ship, it can be anything from a janitor through chief medical officer up to being the captain. You will only ever be one tiny cog in a 50-200 player game. You are expected to do your job and roleplay with your other fellows. Someone will be the antagonist of the round that is here to mess with people, and there are also *shenanigans* afoot - sometimes medbay decides to flood the station with hard drugs and make everyone trippy, sometimes engineering pushes the reactor to its limits and you turn into Type 1 civilization. And sometimes you just have a court case as to whether shaving a wizard's beard off is infringing on their religious rights. It is a really engaging game, to the point people put up with a 20 year old game engine that is as user friendly as Excel 2000.

[@journeytorainbownights]

i went into this video expecting ss13 since its a must in working sims lol i found it weird that it wasn't there

[@nunyabiznes7446]

It really captures the "What the fuck is going on over there?... whatever, it's my job to stamp requisitions orders" vibe that exists in large institutions.

[@supersonictumbleweed]

I once sold the quartermaster for profit by accident

[@tbotalpha8133]

I would argue that Space Station 13 is more like a super in-depth version of the party game Mafia (or as the kids know it, Among Us). It's much more interested in simulating the sense of limited information and perspective of Mafia, where every player is just one thread in a tapestry of narrative. And people only get to find out what other nonsense was happening that they didn't see when the round ends (or they die), at which point everyone is free to laugh and swap stories before the next round starts. Along with a simple honour-system of not spoiling the fun if you get revived, and are allowed to contribute to the game again. All the complexity of the job system only exists to give non-antagonist players something to do while the round goes on, and to stop them from just forming a defensive huddle somewhere once the antag has been identified. Similar to how Among Us gives innocent crewmates tasks to complete, to spread them out around the map and allow the killers to isolate them. Though Among Us also uses its tasks as a pseudo-timer, since if the innocents manage to complete all their tasks, they can win the game. Thereby forcing the killers to act before they lose. Innocents in SS13 don't have the same proactive means of winning the game, which is what leads to players fucking around so much.

[@pretzelbomb6105]

@@supersonictumbleweed I once disassembled tool storage down to the floor tiles and disposal unit, loaded all of it onto the shuttle, and sold it. Only made 7k. No one noticed (loudly, anyways) until I finished. Tried to do the same to the gym, got arrested, and then something exploded on the way to the brig. Don't remember what happened after that besides bits of me and that officer were spread over the parts of the hallway that still existed. It was a good round.

[@LetsChat]

22:38 There is NOT an endless mode in Potionomics. That's actually one of the biggest points of contention from the fanbase.

[@superdude10000]

Pinned a comment noting this. I got my games mixed up :/. Thanks mate!

[@solsystem1342]

I think that that's a good decision. An endless mode would kill the vibe they try to setup and (most) of what makes the mechanics interesting.

[@avakinzerochill]

The thing that makes work games addictive andwork so non addictive is that numbers go up. That represented progress. In the real world, you work all year for a minimal raise, you spend on advertising and get few customers, etc. The payout doesn't really seem worth all the work you put in. These games are kind of how we pictured work when we were kids - and we love it.

[@Zorgdub]

A big difference that tends to be overlooked is that "numbers go up" is guaranteed in games, while it's complete uncertainty in the real world.

[@Solstice261]

And in reality sometimes the numbers go up but the ones you pay go up an unreasonable amount more because your boss saw a chance to scrape some more profit, I am really pissed at how different sectors are using the inflation crisis to make working more hellish than it already was

[@FaZeJERF]

​​@@Solstice261 the reason everyone is struggling isn't because inflation is making everything too expensive it's that salaries haven't kept up with inflation. Over the last 30 years the price of everything has gone up 4x yet the average salary has only risen 30%. Governments aren't forcing businesses to pay a fair salary to their employees. (This is only US stats cuz like everybody on English KZbin is American, it's probably pretty similar in most developed countries though)

[@Solstice261]

@@FaZeJERF yeah, that's what I meant that while costs have risen salaries have only increased mildly which is equivalent to salaries decreasing basically and some executive is benefiting a lot from it On a side note not everybody speaking English in yt is American,most Europeans will speak in English online, British people exist and australians and new Zealanders are also around

[@enr4g3dhippie]

Video games that simulate work are super interesting to me. In our current society, the vast majority of people are completely alienated from the fruits of their labor. Playing this genre of games in which you directly interact with what you produce is most likely very cathartic for people (I know it is for me). The popularity of "work" games also demonstrates the fact that humans are productive by nature. We will go out of our ways to find ways to experience the satisfaction of laboring to an end and seeing it realized.

[@adamnielson42]

Viscera Cleanup Detail feels like one of the truest examples of these games. I'm always thinking "this is gonna be miserable", and "how can I make this easier" but i still love it somehow. Only problem is I can't convince anyone to do co-op lol

[@labrat_09]

I was about to make a comment about that game, and I own it and enjoy playing when I do so I have a biase

[@tiacool7978]

Something about that games makes me feel queazy. I might give another try one day, but I doubt it will help.

[@crazynoob159]

I agree, I was playing it the other day, it would seem boring and monotonous but then I end up playing a couple hours cleaning everything and enjoying it lol

[@vjollila96]

If you get the shadow warrior (2013) you got small version of viscera cleanup details where you clean guts and blood what you caused on the main game

[@freshboy3968]

@@vjollila96 Kagemusha!

[@empty5013]

Interesting video but one thing I wanna point out with your opening intro is that... Work can be fun. Hear me out! The exact things you mentioned, how office culture alienates you from your final product and how you are forced to work to survive whether you want to or not, these are valid and true reasons work sucks. But I'm getting older in life and I've realised that in hindsight there's value in the old blue collar work. Before I became a software developer I worked at mcdonalds, and it sucked, and I didn't love it, but I did night shift and on night shift you have a list of about 15 big jobs you gotta get done before you clock out in the morning, clean the fryers, mop all the floors, take stock, refill the fridges, detail clean the stainless, deep clean the grill, wash and sanitise every tub utensil and tray etc etc. Each of these tasks is hard work, most of it's grotty to some degree, none of it is super enjoyable, but here's the thing. Every shift I walked in at 11pm to a shit show, everything was fucked, everything was out of order and everything was dirty. By the end of those 8 hours, the kitchen was immaculate, everything was ready for the next day. Rarely did anyone thank me. Rarely was I happy walking in or walking out. But when I went home, I slept better than I sleep even now because I knew I had done good work and I got it done and I could fucking see that I did a good job at the end of the night. It might not be fun, but it's rewarding in it's own way. And even though it pays 1/5 of my current salary, and I love my current job and I'm wiser and more qualified now and I live in a nicer house and I don't work a fucking night shift... Some days I miss it. I miss finishing a shift and knowing I got my shit done. I walked into a mess and walked out of a pristine perfectly tended building. I had goals and I accomplished them, and I was good at it. I think games that are work let us experience the good parts of that while avoiding the bad. When I play stardew or transport tycoon or minecraft, I see tangible progress, I set goals, I get it done and at the end I step back and I see how sick what I made was. At work I don't get that, not for a long time at least. I work on a project sometimes for years before it's done and even then I touch such a small element. There's a broader point here about how fucked up modern work culture is but I won't go down that rabbit hole, but what I think is important is that these games let us experience the good part of putting in hard work to accomplish a goal while shielding us from the negative (overwork, abuse, financial stress, bad management, etc etc)

[@OmnifyMyAss]

If you feel like returning to McDonald's for a night shift you might want to get a hobby where you create something. It doesn't matter what exactly. Some things can even sell for reasonable money given some time, equipment and skill. In my case it's beer brewing. I have started brewing beer as I was dissatisfied with how beer tasted where I live, bland and sort of watered down. And as a way to cut expenses on beer also. Not proud of my first 5 batches, but i learned my lessons and have started to understand where and when i was doing something wrong. It doesn't have to be something specific or just one activity. I think an itch to get shit done exists within you because you lack that feeling of appreciation for your own work and ability to observe how much you have accomplished since it's a collective work and you are just a cog in a machine. It's a given in your area of work since nothing is constant and everything shifts all the time. Things like pottery or woodcarving on the contrary have a distinct difference - you create something with your own hands, something that can be touched and used by yourself or other people that are close to you

[@h-di4qd]

I agree work can be fun, and I enjoyed reading about your McDonald's experience! Certainly a super important job. I make my current software engineering job fun by breaking down tasks into pieces. Moving a ticket to QA or Done gives me such a dopamine hit! On a day where I fix 3 bugs, I feel perfectly satisfied closing my laptop at the end of the day and doing whatever.

[@h.t.8812]

Interesting share! I think this difficulty is because we (as humans) are making very complex stuff, so many people need to be making small parts of a big thing, it's pretty easy to see that in software development, and I don't see a workaround for this... It's also interesting Hannah shared that moving tickets to Done gives that satisfying feeling, so maybe this type of work is better for some people than others, idk

[@iandonnelly6684]

Homie ifvyou havent you need to read you some Marx.

[@jscs9960]

not only numbners go up but aklso things like a progress bar or customization behind certain levels also help to game these

[@nogohoho]

Pressure washing is very satisfying in real life too, but it's also physically exhausting and expensive to buy and maintain the equipment. I'm sure shipbreaking would also likely pan out similarly.

[@cate01a]

hahahaha, yeah mate when did you last powerwash? It's cool to see it get clean, but atleast for me you're doing it in a hot sun, all sweaty, with the loudass noise, getting a wickedly cramped hand from the vibrating grip, and having to wash excrutiatingly slowly, and washing with extremely small lines if you want to clean it properly (atleast for cleaning concrete). Theres other little nitpicks that work together to make the experience shitter, such as perhaps you needing to stand mostly still, to stare at the same shit, to always be reminded of how much work there is left and how damn long it will take... it's easy to look back on shit with rose glasses, but hey fuck me maybe you do enjoy washing in which case that's good

[@alphaHero100]

@@cate01a think same thing op was saying, plus you can buy things to make washing concrete easier eg chemicals, surface cleaner attachments. it's still shitty work tho

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

​@@cate01aworked at Sonic for a bit and every so often we'd pull out the powerwasher. The noise sucks but the activity itself is fairly enjoyable.

[@d33pblu3]

IRL ship breaking is just welding but in reverse from what I’ve seen. It’s done in Africa so working conditions are less than stellar.

[@FelisImpurrator]

On a lighter note, I personally refer to Power Wash Simulator as "Hardstains: Shitcleaner".

[@w花b]

Good for you

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@w花b What was the point of that comment?

[@domesticcat1725]

​@@FelisImpurratorto be a dick, it's fun sometimes

[@thetuerk]

That's incredibly creative and I kinda wanna buy Shitcleaner now

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@thetuerk Worth buying both of the actual games. Very chill experiences. Power Wash is for all the people who grew up with a Nintendo DS and couldn't resist filling in every pixel when they were asked to use the touchscreen, only backward.

[@Alpha_Synergy]

One interesting note about Hardspace shipbreaker is that you can choose to turn off the timer. It can make it more enjoyable if you don't like time limits.

[@BusinessWolf1]

this, among other things, kills the story. dj peach cobbler did an amazing video on why its story breaks

[@iandonnelly6684]

​@@BusinessWolf1thats a lame take lol

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

​@@BusinessWolf1it has a forced narrative but I wouldn't say the story really breaks from disabling a timer.

[@cassidy8307]

There's no reason to keep the time limit anyway. You can just work on the same ship the next day if the time is up, and all that's lost after the time is over is a tiny amount of cash, but that cash doesn't get you anything (the currency for getting upgrades is different, and there's no cosmetics to buy).

[@christopherjones7191]

​@@cassidy8307The thing about the timer is that for me it is easier to mark how fast I can break a ship in 1 2 or 3 shifts rather than in time.

[@LeafStickbranch]

I think two other things worth noting are A.) Control, allowing us to live out fantasies like rebelling in the work place or being our own boss, and B.) Access. These game let us try out a "hobby" without the startup cost. In the real world, it would take so much money to start a farm/ trucking business/ etc, and you would need to really commit to it for years to get a return on investment

[@adisca2k]

There is also a layer of simplification. Back-breaking work doesn't wear your body, maintenance is done passively or with a button, and the time it would actually take is shortened to be more managable. They remove the parts that turn people off in real life and leave only the enjoyable ones.

[@c.dl.4274]

I used to think Papers Please was peak gaming until I got a job that is basically the game IRL

[@sovietunion7643]

i mean considering its literally set in a dystopian pseduo-soviet country i don't think it was ever meant to portray a rosy work culture lol

[@d33pblu3]

@@sovietunion7643 Border control is usually handled by uniformed services. They tend to be very soviet-like. On one hand it’s a brutal statistic nepotistic hierarchy that doesn’t accept anything other than complete obedience, on the other it’s full of nonsense, painting the grass green and a general feeling that it’s a parody of what an organisation should be.

[@c.dl.4274]

@@sovietunion7643 i dont think you understood my point. i was just saying that the game isnt fun because i have that job irl. like if i made pizzas at my work, i wouldnt wanna go home and play a game where i make pizzas

[@anusaukko6792]

@@c.dl.4274 Papas Pizzeria is peak no matter what smh

[@maxanderson8872]

Deep Rock Galactic fits the job-as-a-game style, mostly in aesthetics. You are a blue collar dude with other blue collar dudes. You complain about your supervisor, the unsafe conditions, the cheap gear they give you, etc. Yes it is a L4D style horde coop shooter, but it still feels like a work crew going in to meet their quota

[@spyciarz170]

Get morkite and get rid of the bugs. Simple as.

[@hankhohn5017]

Deep Rock could really use some better equipment

[@caustic_squatch]

WE FIGHT FOR ROCK AND STONE!

[@Daniel-jn6zj]

We´re rich!

[@PersonstuckinMichigan]

@@caustic_squatchDID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?

[@amandasmith1920]

The anxiety of dealing with real people with feelings has really uncomfortable consequences.

[@nightmarerex2035]

expecialy today lol hey sir ITS MAAM hey man? ITS MAAAM (proceeds to release max testosterone) ITS MAAM sory sorry man ill call you man not sir ITS MAAM NOT MAN NOT SIR ITS MAAM (proceeds to molotov you)

[@spongytrout7462]

@@nightmarerex2035wtf does this even mean

[@naumen6508]

​@@spongytrout7462I think he's spitting out some transphobic bullshit.

[@TheMisterDarknight]

​@@spongytrout7462average costumer,er service conversation

[@Drekromancer]

@@spongytrout7462 I think we just watched him turn himself into a strawman in real time

[@MasterOfBaiter]

The fun thing about work is that basically everyone actually likes being productive. The reason why we don't enjoy work as much irl is in part do to the fact we aren't working for ourselves or the community but for someone else who barely values us, the other is that because we work for someone who barely values us the conditions under which we work are ridiculous. The most common adult experience is not feeling like you are quite an adult yet cause you feel overwhelmed by anything. You have to work stupid hours to then get home and have to decided whether to prioritize your domestic duties or your mental health often under the financial stress of barely making ends meet and meanwhile everyone else is just as exhausted as you either physically, emotionally or mentally that nobody feels like they can hang out often and you end up feeling lonely and isolated as well. Work could be fucking amazing and everyone I know knows that, just sucks that it can't be fucking amazing cause it would be less profitable to aknowledge that as humans we aren't made for that hyper efficiency the capitalist overlords demand of us

[@Solstice261]

I know this is very old, but I would add that also a lot of real jobs are just not really productive at least in the very specific part that involves that job, a lot of them are administrative, accounting, office work, or other kinds of jobs that lead to feeling like you haven't produced any material value which of course creates alienation

[@thevain4370]

Barotrauma is another game that I think fits pretty much in the "work game" genre: you, with AI or other people online, explore the depths of the ocean in your submarine doing transport or recovery of people, resources and ancient artifacts while encountering and fighting alien sea monsters. Everyone on the submarine has a role and you need constant maintenance of machines and the hull while still having someone piloting and defending your ship from attacks. There is a lot of management to be done and this can get out of hand really fast. Maybe it doesn't have the same intention of sending a message like your examples, but it sure is a lot of fun, especially with friends, and I absolutely recommend everyone to give it a shot. Also I found your channel a couple of days ago and I absolutely love your content, keep up this amazing work!

[@burgernthemomrailer]

defending the ship from attacks? the only thing you need to worry about is crew incompetence

[@kirtil5177]

@@burgernthemomrailer exactly why defending the ship is important, shenanigans inside the ship are enough of a problem on their own, dont want to get husked or dragged into crushing depth on top of that

[@zanmorn1139]

your own crew is honestly more dangerous than the denizens of Europa. If you make it far enough then the monsters become the primary threat lol

[@kylecarruthers9730]

Potionomics was heavily heavily inspired by Recettear: An Item's Shop Tale, a weird and fantastic little Japanese Indie game from 2007 (translated to English in 2010). It was actually the first Japanese indie to appear on Steam. For years I have been waiting for a true successor to Recettear as there is some jank in the game that could be improved upon. I'm happy to say Potionomics is everything I ever wished for. You absolutely MUST play Recettear if you are interested in these sorts of games and to see where a lot of the DNA of Potionomics came from.

[@jirue]

"Recettear: An Item Shop's Tale" is a good predecessor game to the "Moonlighter" game if you're looking for more like it. Has more robust shop mechanics and an anime style for those who into that.

[@chenwingsee]

I was really disappointed in moonlighter because I was given the impression that it was much like Recettear. I certainly like the combat much more, but not much else. I ended up stopping pretty early in my playthrough (like, 5 or so hours in?) and went to go play recettear again.

[@jamesbrincefield9879]

Moonlighter is actual garbage. If either the dungeon-diving aspect or the shopkeeping aspect had any amount of depth it could have been pretty cool but instead they decided to just make everything mediocre and the game gets boring after the first hour.

[@-user_redacted-]

​@@jamesbrincefield9879complains there's no depth, refuses to work up to it. Classic.

[@bishop8958]

Recettear is a great game, I have absolutely no memory of how I first heard about it, but it's certainly my cult classic that I encourage people to play despite its age.

[@jamesbrincefield9879]

@@-user_redacted- I put time into it. I was just bored for almost all of that time. What exactly happens that increases the depth? Evidently I never saw it.

[@garrettbowman8125]

I'm surprised Dave the Diver didn't make this list, by day you're the one and only deep sea diver tasked to catch a variety of fish and collect relics from the sea floor so once night comes you can help manage a fruitful sushi shop. It's labeled as a Rogue like/resource management/business sim/CCG and with brilliant art and story elements compounded on top

[@parsodark]

Papers, Please and Potionomics are 2 games I enjoyed a lot, so I gave Hardspace : Shipbreaker a go yesterday. I'm enjoying it so far, thanks for the recommandation! Great video essay, keep it up!

[@forgottenland6962]

Has nobody mentioned Recettear - An Item Shop's Tale yet? It's one of the earlier small business games and the first ever anime game on Steam. Both Potionomics and Moonlighter can trace their ancestry to this little gem.

[@ProfessorH]

Capitalism Ho!

[@unsuspiciousdweller8967]

"First ever anime game" uhhh, have you SEEN the steam store?

[@another1118]

Capitalism Ho!

[@LibraritheWizardOfficial]

Capitalism Ho!

[@alexardo5224]

Capitalism Ho!

[@Avellimachi]

Shipbreaker is up there as one of my all time favourite games for all the reasons you described. Delightful to see it so aptly put.

[@aurenian8247]

Space Engineers is my go to work game. The satisfaction of designing a ship that does what it is supposed to do is really fun.

[@Jikkuryuu]

The way you describe the overlapping stresses of Potionomics reminds me of my time with Dark Cloud 2. I loved the first game so I was super excited for the second. Then I looked at all the achievements/ingredients/quests/collectables/skill exp/etc that all come from playing the stages. And I tried to maximize the gains from each run of the stage and had an actual meltdown, because on top of all those things this was a rental and I only had so much time with the game. Which is all silly because what I spent 95% of my Dark Cloud 1 playthrough doing was grinding weapon exp to forge the perfect accessory that could be swapped on to any character's weapon. Taking my time was the fun part :P

[@HiHi-iu8gf]

Tangential to the point of the video, but a few more thoughts of mine relating to the topic. Perhaps obvious, but were at the back of my mind while watching this- I reckon there's an aspect as well of, low (real life) stakes, the assurance that the game is a actually designed to be fun/entertaining (unlike jobs irl necessarily), and the fact that it's a challenge you pick for yourself, rather than one you have to out of obligation/survival. Like games, even about work, will gloss over the more boring parts of the job that you *would* have to do otherwise (eg packing up equipment, setting up equipment, actually spending the full amount of time, etc). Also there's a thing about active and passive challenges I heard about somewhere, wherein challenges you take up are more rewarding and easier to push through than challenges that are instead thrust upon you. Like in a game, you chose you be challenged in this way, and you can stop whenever you want. Irl, ofc you can pick your job, but there will be times where the challenges of that job are being thrust upon you rather than being something you choose to engage with at your own pace.

[@mariaj1702]

I love how you do the fast summary at the end of the videos, helps me remember the key points and actually think about playing one of those games, or recalling what you said in a general light when i watch your videos in multiple sessions, keep up the good work you are amazing

[@gavo7911]

Another work game I would highly recommend is Va-11 Hall-A. It’s a cyberpunk visual novel about being a bartender where you can affect the story based upon how you make drinks for your friends and customers. There’s very light gameplay mechanics where you need to have enough money to not get evicted, but the story is the real star of the show, and it does a fantastic job at worldbuilding despite the whole game taking place in a single bar.

[@aiodensghost8645]

I feel for you, man. Your idea of work and mine dont seem alike, but that's probably because when you work construction, you get to see the site evolve AS you work.

[@sovietunion7643]

you can also go around town driving and be like "yeah i remember setting down the foundations for this building 5 years back" so there is a very strong sense of adding to something and knowing what you created.

[@cbhammond4791]

One work game I really like is Graveyard Keeper. It’s sort of the same deal as Moonlighter, where sometimes you work and sometimes you dungeon. Highly recommend to anyone who wants to try something new and cool. It’s grim, funny, and surprisingly engaging once it really picks up.

[@cabs-bi6tw]

As a huge fan of shipbreaker, I thank you for talking about it. more people need to know about this game!

[@DeyvsonMoutinhoCaliman]

I love gardening, something I do in my spare time. Love to see the vegetables, flowers and even some trees growing. It could be a boring work, if I was doing it to sell and had a routine I had to follow, but even so I think I would like more fun than my desk job. It doesn't need to be games, if you do something you feel is worthwhile, it feels like fun. Sometimes I do some repairs in my house, mason work, and I have fun doing it. It is tiresome work physically, but rewarding psychologically. And, off course, I play games, but games about work are not my thing, except factory games like Satisfactory, these are very addictive.

[@Moltax]

One game which is kind of the opposite of the small business kind of game is Lobotomy Corporation. In Lobotomy you play as the new manager of the titular Lobotomy Corporation. It is your job to order your employees around and make sure management goes smoothly, even if a few employees have to be sacrificed to the creatures kept in the company’s facilities to keep everything running smoothly. The game is amazing and you’re taught by your AI assistant that you shouldn’t care for the employees and that keeping work going is much more important. Also the story is amazing. Play it.

[@anusaukko6792]

To be fair Lobotomy Corporation isn't strictly a work game like most of the things here mentioned, ie Papers Please or Potionomics. Lobotomy Corporation is first and foremost a STORY game, that simply CHOOSES to have a gameplay loop similar to a work game, but it is ultimately almost completely different.

[@peashootercat]

4:37 when you gave the spoiler warning for these games i think you should have said the names out loud for audio watchers. im a huge fan of stardew valley and my friend is really into ETS2. these games are great and this video was really well made

[@archmagusofevil]

Reccetear is a great game about running a shop. It is one of the inspirations of Moonlighter and is definitely worth checking out

[@bethanyblueberry]

Another work-like game is Wilmots Warehouse, where you work in a warehouse sorting deliveries and then finding thise items for people. The sorting can be really fun since you can organise the deliveries however you want and make whatever catorgories you want.

[@schippai3308]

the "or do they?" immediately hit me with pathologic vibes

[@ultimus616]

I went to subscribe and realized.. I already was! Your KBU video was the one that did it, evidently. I absolutely love game design, and you make some good quality analysis, so much so I literally tried to sub twice

[@samusaron5000]

Clicked for shipbreaker, I am almost perpetually listening to the ost, good stuff if you're just doing stuff around the house

[@zaldabus]

Ahhhh, my friend made Potionomics! I didn’t realize it had become so popular

[@superdude10000]

Super cool, dude!! I hope they know I love this game, and ima sing its praises!!

[@Luciezka]

thats why i love being a developer I solve weird abstract puzzles and then i see the changes on our company website and then i write a guide how i solved the puzzle

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

Reasons why work in games is fun: The work is not forced. Such as for a livelihood to survive. Curiosity about other jobs. Such as jobs one may not be able to get. Fun jobs. Like being a performer or living in a beautiful countryside farming. The jobs are sped up or the boring parts are skipped. It's made lighthearted, positive, and ideal. Such as no or not much mean people, like bosses or customers. Or people you help being thankful to you. It can be glammed up or be supernatural. Satisfactory and visible gains. Like helping others, making lots of money, being able to buy lots of things, or expanding one's business. Doing one's hobby or hobby one wish one can do. No real life physical labor. Play pretend like a kid. It's not serious. There's aren't real life consequences. Being able to start over, and experiment. Exciting action. Such as a agent or detective going on missions. When in reality, many of them just do a lot of paperwork. Beautiful graphics. May have interesting stories, characters, and/or gameplay. May involve saving the world, and feeling heroic. The work may go with other gameplay, like being a mage, creating, or saving the world. You control it. It's more predictable. You can play with friends. It's like Ruth Goodman, Alex, Peter, and Tom choosing to work on a Victorian Farm or Tudor Farm, etc, for a living history tv series.

[@Lukros76]

Really enjoyed the video, many have mentioned that you neglected a few points but there's only so much one can do. Definitely made me add Hardship to my Wishlist.

[@scorchercast8366]

Obligation makes task anxiety inducing and feel like something your being forced into doing If your motivated by the potential reward and gave the knowledge that it’s completely optional then it’s a rewarding experience

[@Iamgudjoe]

Thank you for the wonderful video. I had no idea that potionomics existed before this video but after this video, I will now surely check it out. Keep up the good work.

[@Vilvee]

Great video! I'm a fan of your narrating. I have a friend who drives trucks for a living. Every time you see him online after work, you bet he's playing Euro Truck Simulator or Forza. I'd always chuckle at that.

[@freshboy3968]

Driving for life

[@MalaysianChopsticks]

Papers please showed me 10 years ago (17) that I’m pretty good at repetitive jobs. I jump from industry to industry for years but now I work in Customer Service. Most days are the same but policies can change in a week or the very next day. I will never forget Papers Please for showing me what I’m good at. Thank you for the other two recommendations! I will be looking into them as I am also looking for a small business stress Game

[@magicalhexagon6403]

LOVE! your videos man. Editing is consistent and personable, content is structured and really easy to engage with, and also you're just really cool. Really appreciate you for making these videos

[@aullvrch]

This and your knowledge based games video are by far my favorite! You leave me with a super clear understanding of qualities that games have with great examples. I found myself think of knowledge based games as a concept a lot and can see myself thinking of work represented in games as well.

[@9Emi]

Dude, I just find amazing the ability you have to make these videos, keep up the good work man

[@lonelyboy9852]

The list of Ooo That Game Looks Co- *death by price tag* games grows. But yeah great video mate, have a good one.

[@sillygoose_8635]

Hardspace Shipbreaker is one of my favorite games I've ever played. I've not sunk as much time into it as I would like to, but it's one of the most satisfying games I've played in recent memory

[@hardlyboiled]

this all presupposes work is always unenjoyable

[@megan00b8]

As someone studying to be an automation engineer, i hope my work will be like a factory game. It definitely won't be ruined by a pile of paperworks and protocols that taking care of takes up more time than doing the actual work, not at all (clueless).

[@JIKwood]

Shop-like is another small business owner struggles game. Giving you a set ammount of time slots that you have to do everything you need to do. But it also allows you to mess with the market, if the market doesn't mess with you.

[@jamesbrincefield9879]

You owe it to yourself to play Recettear. I’m actually astounded you did the leg work involved in making a video on this topic and didn’t cover it. It’s one of the better representatives of this genre of games.

[@GhostlyNomad130]

Perfect! You've earned a subscriber for that line. A cross between a merchant and an alchemist is my dream too!

[@Fanhalo]

One of the best examples of the “monotonous gameplay and overthrow the government” is not for broadcast. It is an awesome game with a strong narrative

[@Tman2bard]

I'm surprised Recettear didn't get gently mentioned in the small business part. It did the whole "stuck in debt with a shop you just inherited" thing a long time.ago, but it did have its own issues. Getting more stuff to sale involves having adventurers that you have to control to get even better things to sale. It's a bit dated, but it's a big deal when it comes to roots

[@keanuxu5435]

I feel you when you said you love Hardspace Shipbreaker so much it became the reason you made this video. I love that game so much, I went through all the effort, time, and money to build a very above average gaming PC for the first time just to play it. And guess what? The game came out on consoles a couple months later anyway. Still, I got me a nice PC and am modding games I loved on consoles to be so much more fun on PC.

[@HENTAICOMBO]

I remember playing stardew valley with my friend. I plant like 3000 coffee in the second years and watering it by hand. We can't do anything else for two seasons and sleep at 00:30 every day. We have like a million of coffee beans in the winter. Then we quit because we tired farming those coffee beans. 😅

[@MarquisdeL3]

Recettear is over ten years old at this point, but it's very much what Moonlighter was trying to do, only with more in-depth shop systems and the looming threat of a huge debt. The combat is kinda floaty and janky though. I'm desperately waiting for someone to make a successor that streamlines some things but doesn't feel as stripped down in comparison as Moonlighter did.

[@kalacs32]

Words right out of my mouth, dude.

[@skyraider996]

Love your content. I watch a lot of video essay channels and this video popped up. I am shocked by your low subscriber count as I normally find creater who are already 500k+. Keep up the great content and keep paying the kitty tax.

[@AlanStryman]

this man implies being a GOAT is a blue collar work i love him also he talked about Hardspace:Shipbreaker i love him

[@XtianApi]

Perfection. You can do something to perfection, without thinking or moving too much. That's what I think

[@caffeinepuppy]

It’ll be interesting to see whether the story of Satisfactory fits in with this or not. It seems like it might occupy an interesting overlap between you being on the lowest rung but also being the one making the machine.

[@micahwhoward8316]

I don't know what it is, but games where I'm immediately saddled with crippling debt and it grows each time you die gives me so much anxiety and I can never get more than an hour or two into them.

[@BusinessWolf1]

that is the point.

[@hanzflackshnack1158]

Eve Online fits into the “work that isn’t work” category but once you get involved with a corporation… It’s kinda just work… Reporting movements, providing escorts, pulling security, trying to mine in between skirmishes, studying the intentions of other corps, studying the market, moving cargo… It’s an interesting experience no doubt but I’d ask for my hours back to play something else given the choice…

[@vylbird8014]

I've seen it referred to as "A Game of Spaceships and Spreadsheets."

[@hanzflackshnack1158]

@@vylbird8014 Pretty accurate. Calculating profit margins based on a real supply and demand market was fascinating and fun at first. A few years in it becomes a chore. Losing your cargo to a gate camp at a gate you just scouted as clear starts as wow this game is crazy anything can happen… A few years in it’s just ****… There goes 6 hours of my life

[@dkrock8567]

I'm glad to hear that the Ship Breakers story mode is finished. After the progress was understandably reset during the open beta I put it down till I knew I wouldn't be repeating the same part of the game as often

[@VeryPersoon]

You've convinced me. I will be getting Shipbreaker soon. Also, I played Obra Dinn and absolutely loved it... I never knew it was made by the same person who made Papers Please. I'm also going to go get Papers Please now. Edit: God damnit, now I'm also going to get Potionomics. Also, didn't watch the full video. Only snippets from each section to avoid spoilers.

[@nick_nathas5442]

you convinced me to buy a game i had never heard before in my life in 14 minutes. I'll watch the rest of the video while Hardspace: Shipbreaker downloads

[@DrDezaro]

I see “Work games” as success emulation games … because the games of this type that don’t have stories or puzzles (thinking of Papers Please) are basically giving us a sense of what success feels like. Papers please is a puzzle game that simulates the indentured slavery that we all experience.

[@iantaakalla8180]

It does suck that work today is more like a puzzle game rather than an x simulator where X is the work in question you are tasked with doing.

[@sovietunion7643]

wasn't it based on an soviet bloc country? feel like its a better example of what it feels like to be stuck in an overly beurcratic and stagnant system of governance rather than modern globalist work force certainly it can feel nowadays like you have no choice in any job you have, but often this is more mixed in with the issues of urbanized society. when you are in a city everything is brought to you and a small number of government officials who you will never meet can completely change how millions of people live their lives. in a city everything feel like a zoo or a laboratory, cold and unfeeling smaller towns have better elections when the politicans know they can't focus on certain voting blocks to win or use beuracratic bullshit to win when the town is under 100k people, they also don't feel as crowded as cities and can have a more natural flow between jobs and the people receiving the product, helping deal with the problem. when you are serving someone you can recognize comes to the mcdonalds, or people you recognize from in town, you feel less like a cog in a machine even if its minimum wage labor. papers please does deal with issues like these well but probably applies better to extremely strict soviet countries rather than just modern cityscapes.

[@DrDezaro]

I always interpreted that it was based in an a location representative of the Czech Republic or Slovakia. I never said it’s based in the Soviet, although I think the video does. You seem to be suggesting that I should move but, your interpretation of a large city would probably house my entire countries population if a small town to you is under 100k. The issue here is that in the 70’s the combine most of the small town councils (that had populations of 10k or less back then) to make populations of 100k so that they could afford to do more projects etc. because these councils tended to focus there efforts in the council area that previously was the richest, people abandoned most of the other towns and the populations are now less than a tenth of what they were and 90% of people live a 2-3hr drive from their council chambers … I can see the logic in your response but, the indentured slavery comment was more about the fact that you can be in the to 90% of earners in the world economy and still barely be able to afford your own home or to move without the support of a company poaching you. The fact that the “average” income per capita in the global economy is above the 80th percentile of earners … there is a global economic disaster coming and while companies has a small task of it during COVID most of them used it as a opportunity to price gouge and move the average income from the 75th percentile to the 80th percentile of earners while increasing the cost of living. The median/average persons experience in 2023 isn’t too dissimilar to that of someone living in 1900 by these measures … not that they are the sole factors involved.

[@manformerlypigbukkit]

@@sovietunion7643the fact that people play papers please and think “man this is like my job” is already alarming enough, the intricacies aren’t necessary

[@stinsonboyz2]

I never would've thought that I would love a video like this... and yet hate I am in love

[@Retog]

Workers of the world unite! Nothing to lose but your chains!

[@Azord]

not sure how I stumbled in here, but I have played every one of these games. I agree with every one of these, and I would wholeheartedly recommend them, although personally I would go with potionomics over hardship. Great video!

[@bat4889]

and then there's deep rock galactic, which is basically a "me and the boys" simulator

[@FelisImpurrator]

The first part of this basically refers to the Marxist definition of alienation. The worker not being able to tangibly see or engage with the fruits of their labor is one of the fundamental critiques of capitalism. Work games are satisfying in large part because they tend to provide that tangible sense of reward and fulfillment. And partly because they aren't literally what your survival depends on, so the coercive aspect of being forced to do the task to live is absent. Thus, you can actually engage with it as play.

[@golanperry5885]

why do you bother writing such long comment? are you just board like me?

[@golanperry5885]

maybe were all not that different

[@riverscuomo7140]

i ain't reading all that but congrats or sorry for your loss

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@riverscuomo7140 What's the point of your comment then?

[@1ManRandom]

@@golanperry5885 Were you born a board, or did you become one later in life? What’s it like being a board? Do boards enjoy long comments? Do you ever get bored being a board?

[@TurdleShell]

i strongly appreciate the editing at 13:33 gave me a good laugh

[@ains2904]

i swear if 2-8 minecraft players were in contact over a discord seever, you could just leave them on a 40 acre plot of empty land and you'll have a fully self sustaining city with a thorium reactor by 2028.

[@Zorgdub]

1:48 "Games need to be enjoyable. Or do they?" Me: _Spec Ops: the Line flashbacks_

[@apollo6718]

Your videos always have a high level of quality

[@firewalldaprotogen]

I watched this video while fully taking apart the largest ship in shipbreaker. i love taking a full hour to turn a huge ship into an empty space

[@agucci]

When the Work is Great, life truly becomes a game.

[@redtsun67]

The main difference is that in video games, you put in the effort and you are rewarded for it. In a real-life job, you put in the effort for 15 days and then you're rewarded, THEN you have to give away most of your reward to bills.

[@a.t.1241]

I also recommend Frostpunk. It's a game about building and ruling a city in a frozen wasteland. It offers you the possibility to build your city however you see fit, but in the limits of harsh climate, unexpected problems, and your own people's will. I see it as a work game too, because it's not just about managing a city, but its people, with all their needs. It tries to bring you closer to the people you take care of, on top of assuring the base conditions for them. They may have individual pleas at times, that challenge the established direction you want to achieve. And sometimes, you can encounter groups of people who ask you to bring them to your city, even if you're currently barely managing yourself. What do you do? Let them die, or bring them in? There are many challenges and problems that arise, more or less suddenly, and that keep you on edge. So it's a work game in my opinion, because you need to carry the whole burden of ruling a city, and blend your rule with the needs and wants of the people.

[@milokiss8276]

Holy hell. Hi, AVID space enjoyer here. Why have I never heard of Shipbreaker? For ages now, I’ve been looking at tons of space games and so many of them have just... Absolutely amazing SINGLE points that I just want to throw in a big ol’ cauldron and make The Perfect Space Game. The world of Starbound. The combat of FTL. The design of No Man’s Sky. The controls of Elite Dangerous. And now... Oh boy. I think you’ve given me a real big contender for the scrapping aspect. Now I have GOT to play that. Issue is, I don’t have a ps5 yet...

[@edwardkoenig7356]

I get off work late at night then get back on “work” in Hardspace Shipbreaker. Something about the monotony is so enjoyable

[@ashkay2920]

Potionomics deserves way more success then how much it did. I have not a single gripe with this game. Everything is more then anyone can ask for

[@solsystem1342]

The game randomly popping up a disclaimer that choosing a romantic partner both locks you to that character for the rest of the game and locks off all other romance actually annoyed me. I actually got up from the game to go complain about it to my partners. Like, I know the game is going to enforce monogamy, that's like, the default assumption still. It just feels like a slap in the face for no reason. Also, these characters are all cardboard cutouts (entertaining and likeable ones certainly) which just exist for gameplay anyways. It just completly pulled me out of the world specifically to remind me that people like me don't exist in this world which is just... not the vibe. From a systems perspective I love the game. Just wish there were difficulty options because it feels really bad to win a competition by default after spending 5 minutes crafting a slow burn deck specifically for it.

[@alfredosauce3727]

I appreciated you gushing over Shipbreaker. Truly just a great game.

[@golanperry5885]

1+1=3

[@eirgel38]

this was a great video essay. stands out in the increasingly more saturated field

[@martinjoster3282]

You had a bit od my attention at Potionomics' premise, but the characters ... Now you have my attention

[@lXlDarKSuoLlXl]

6:31 yeah, because in a real "communist" country, you don't even have enough money for survival 😃 Source: I'm Venezuelan

[@fuzon9895]

I hope you continue this series further more

[@ganchroi]

During the Papers, Please segment I just kept seeing Bob's boss from The Incredicles; "It only works when the cogs all work together" LOL

[@quantum2432]

making a fun video about games making boring work fun. And I enjoy the video too!

[@themedicalzookeepers3881]

I absolutely love this video, earned a sub for sure, although I think another good one that was missed, is Turmoil. Never played a game that involves work quite like that one., as well as Papers Please.

[@Cloakdasasin0]

Shipbreaker's soundtrack is classic, love that game.

[@ShinxyMuro]

Thanks for the good recommendations. Already added 3 of these for my Wishlist, gonna get them on a discount as soon as possible! They look super fun