How Games Would Be Better WITHOUT Aim Down Sights.

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I want to make one more video to cap off the trilogy on this topic. The objective of this was to communicate is as concise and direct a manner the points that I believe weren't correctly communicated in previous videos.
8-bit Closer To The Heart: • Rush - Closer to the H...
#CoD #fps #halo

[@ShreddedNerd]

Thanks for watching. The objective of this was to communicate is as concise and direct a manner the points that I believe weren't correctly communicated in previous videos.

[@notyourbusiness8475]

When are you gonna post Soy lore 3?

[@erickfabian8822]

You should make a video about Ultrakill, which is just Doom Eternal but 1000 times faster.

[@SpottedHares]

One dimensional gameplay design.

[@Cellphoneray]

I'm cool with games that have no ads, but I hate when the accuracy of the guns just suck

[@merucrypoison296]

Shredded only cares a about iron sites because it gets in the way when he’s shooting TND people

[@snaek2594]

0:30 - "Same dev studio". Yeah in name only. CrowbCat summed it up perfectly. They're the same dev studio that made Evolve, not Left 4 Dead.

[@SplendidCoffee0]

Exactly. Turtle Rock is nothing in the shadow of Gaben and the gang.

[@ProbNotCross]

Only like 5 l4d devs managed to survive b4b lol

[@ranfan1820]

The others were left 4 dead

[@ProbNotCross]

@@ranfan1820 what are you referring to?

[@RusticRonnie]

@@ProbNotCrossmost stayed at valve… because why would you leave valve

[@haha-on5fd]

another modern game feature I hate is how most devs implement hitmarkers, it's a form of visual feedback that detracts from the other forms of visual feedback instead of adding to them because a big red X is obscuring half of the target making it harder to see the particle effects and blood splatter from you hitting your target.

[@xgrillsenx]

I agree especially in single player games. Some examples are Halo Infinite, Uncharted 4, and Battlefield Bad Company 2. It is annoying and kills the immersion.

[@cmdrfunk]

I don't like all the games with numbers flying off characters as you hit them

[@asian_inasuit9239]

@@cmdrfunk Yeah the fortnite-type games have long times to kill and the really ugly damage numbers

[@lukabazookastj9462]

I wish it never came to halo it gives way too much info. I can use grenades as enemy locators.

[@lucascoval828]

@cmdrfunk I too hate RPGs.

[@AxeMain]

Season of the Boner did have great lore you have to admit that

[@lukemccullough9279]

Bringing up a point you made on Destiny, more games need an alternative fire mode. Every gun in Unreal Tournament has a minimum of 2 modes of fire, and every gun was super unique and interesting, I don't think ads is the only reason why this isn't more common, but it would be easier to implement if ads was removed on games that didn't need it.

[@okbVinyl]

I agree with you, but you should see the amount of Quake fans arguing with foaming mouths how bad UT is because of alt-fires. Pretty sure if you tell CoD fans about them, same would happen. Most of the games hold realism over fun, hence 95% of Destiny guns make bullets go fast and that's it. But on the other hand, we have games like modern Doom, Ultrakill, other retro-fps-styled games like Ion Fury, Amid Evil, Wrath Aeon of Ruin. So it's not all bad.

[@slamshift6927]

Not really a problem. Killzone on PS1 had alt fire modes and ADS, so did just about every call of duty since COD4

[@victorchen5358]

There's gameplay mod for classic doom called "Hideous destructor." It incorporates millisim mechanics like bleeding into the gameplay loop. Suprisingly, it doesn't have a ADS mechanic. Once a weapon is equipped it's ready to fire. A sight picture will be at the center of your screen. This works to the mods favor due the mountain of keybinds the mod already has.

[@BucketBoatable]

Chad mod, video doesn't touch on tactical games. I like the underused hold right click to increase accuracy like in f.e.a.r.

[@LabiaLicker]

crap mod. made by a communist

[@Bagginsess]

I love milsims and realistic FPS but I miss when there was more arcadey variety like Halo, Quake, Unreal Tournament, Time Splitters, 007 Nightfire, Medal of Honor, L4D2, Counter Strike Source, Half Life, etc.

[@jmgonzales7701]

i wonder if you can make a milsim like game but instead of focusing on aiming and slow movement make it more about movement.

[@Bagginsess]

@@jmgonzales7701 then it wouldn't be milsim. Aiming is a very important skill IRL and your soldier is normally wearing 50-80 pounds of gear so movement has to be slow.

[@Bagginsess]

@@jmgonzales7701 but it would be cool to have a Halo game like Squad but retain all the Halo movement and aiming mechanics.

[@jmgonzales7701]

@@Bagginsess yes

[@jmgonzales7701]

@@Bagginsess I disagree, when i say movement shooter I'm just saying there is an emphasis on positioning and moving from one place to another. aiming is still part of it but the skill wont be on recoil control or aiming 24/7 rather emphasis would be on surprising the enemy or finding a flank. Basically like brothers in arms where its hard to hit shots if you went to a gun fight so u direct ur squad to get a jump on them. it is why games like metal gear and brothers in arms are my personal favorite because it is indeed hardcore but it is somewhat innovative. As for mgs it is third person but i like the dynamic of cqc, stealth and fps shoot-em. I personally would like to see more shooters that incorporate cqc style elements. dunno how they would execute it thou. Basically a john wick simulator.

[@MrOrgeston]

I love that there's no aim button in Team Fortress 2. That way, I can bind left click to switch to primary and fire, right click to switch to secondary and fire, and middle click to switch to melee and fire. That way I can just treat each mouse button as a "shoot this weapon" button. Simplicity is key.

[@okbVinyl]

you can. but good luck playing half of the characters, because they use M2. Like pyro or demoman, heavy, sniper. Just from top of my head, and thats 4. Haven't played for 9 years tho.

[@MrOrgeston]

@@okbVinyl I bound alt-fire to shift. Pyro, demoman, heavy, sniper, medic, scout, spy, all use alt-fire. I think Soldier is the only one who doesn't. Engineer is the most complicated, since he uses alt-fire sometimes in construction. But I wrote this whole bind for getting all of his construction done on the mouse, since I freed up my scroll wheel by not needing it for weapon switch anymore. Edit, just remembered Soldier uses alt-fire for the Cow Mangler. So that's all of them.

[@StainlessPot]

Black Ops zombies does always running from zombies with ADS pretty well still. I also don't hate it in Titanfall 2. On titans it's kinda vital and on pilots I barely ever need it, which I think is a good balance.

[@heftymagic4814]

Black ops zombies doesn't work the same way l4d does. In zombies you die in like 2 hits. This effects how the game mechanized

[@drippeeboye607]

so why not just take it away from pilots and keep it on titans? It's not like the titans have as much of a reliant on movement as pilots (bar one exception I believe)

[@StainlessPot]

@@heftymagic4814 so? Where did I state it's the same game? It's just an example of a game that works well with ADS

[@StainlessPot]

@@drippeeboye607 that could work actually, except for sniper rifles.

[@drippeeboye607]

@@StainlessPot ayo true

[@devinkupka8319]

Definitely an interesting topic to discuss. I had never considered the comparisons between left 4 dead and back 4 blood, one having ads and sprint and the other without. Feels very similar to how Halo included those features as well in newer installments.

[@Lh0000]

Months late, but I kinda disagree with the comparison, they fundamentally aren’t the same studio anymore, and both games are vastly different in more ways then they can be compared, thus you really can’t argue that ADS and sprinting are the cause the games problems, or even significantly contribute. I’d argue they are the least of B4Bs actual problems, and like in almost every other game, don’t actually cause any meaningful negative impact.

[@fookinkoont]

That's because there's no comparison to be made, B4B is literally a bad attempt at copying zombie trends. ADS or sprinting in L4D wouldn't be an issue in that game becase the issue isn't the concept of ADS, it's the execution.

[@infinity002]

@@Lh0000 it is in fact true they cause a negative impact , people now adc is close range which is rather stupid when you should be hip firing which helps when the enemy moves a lot

[@Lh0000]

@@infinity002 not in my experience, usually people won’t ADS at close range unless it’s one of those games where hipfire is wildly inaccurate, in which case that’s not a problem with ADS, that’s a problem with the spread on hipfire. (Which frankly is the real “problem with ADS” 90% of the time)

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@fookinkoontads would be really clunky if it was middle mouse like it is in l4d2, but it would suck even harder if it replaced the shove

[@lukabazookastj9462]

I can’t say I agree for Titanfall considering it’s a decently large scale game with 2 different layers of gameplay that the maps are required to accommodate. Titanfall has the power to really bring out how people really play as it lets you play slowly or more quickly with the wallrunning. I don’t see playing slowly as a noob trap either because I’ve known many players who were capable of topping leaderboards because they got pretty decent at tracking their enemies. Considering I have seen an equal amounts of players in titanfall2’s multiplayer gravitate to the slow or faster play styles, I say it’s completely fine and I wouldn’t have it any other way. All in all great video and I couldn’t agree more about halo.

[@skrrrtsusman3450]

yeah, Titanfalls variety in possible approaches make it way more replayable.

[@curtismcpsycho8212]

​@@skrrrtsusman3450Ngl I might look for titanfall if I can find it on PS😂 it looks alot better than the current cod games.

[@Nurse_Xochitl]

Even in Halo, it still has a place with certain weapons... like the DMR and Sniper Rifle. But beyond that, not so much.

[@thebrodator]

The epic conclusion to the ADS trilogy.

[@TheSundayShooter]

_Conclusion... trilogy?_ Doubt this will be the last we hear of ADS on this channel

[@caramelldansen2204]

boutta install ADS-block fr 😤

[@FakeGuthix01]

Halo Infinite's zoom function is more of an accessibility feature. What it really does is it lets you run a super high FOV (something that arena shooter players are fond of) without crippling yourself when it comes to long range fights. Quake 3 has a zoom button for this exact reason but people were doing the same thing in older games through custom bindings in the console to toggle your FOV on demand. You would have a button to change your FOV to the lowest it could go, functionally zooming in slightly compared to the FOV that most people played at, so eventually they just added a dedicated zoom function that went even further than the normal lower bound for FOV in the keybinds for fairness' sake.

[@arturoencinar9187]

I understood the Rush Closer to the Heart reference. Great video man

[@doltBmB]

I think this hyper-focus on "movement" and "going fast" in titanfall is doing a disservice to what the game actually is. ADS does make sense in that game. Wall-running and double jumping are, like dropshotting and diving in call of duty, ways to mitigate the effectiveness of accurate aim and close the distance, or maneuver while under fire. But that's not the only valid tactic, peeking from windows or using mobility to gain a height advantage and then ADS'ing is also valid. For example, someone can set up a shield wall with a machinegun and use ADS to do devastating damage to anyone who attacks them directly, but a skilled wall runner can use their mobility to outmaneuver the stationary player and either kill them or force them to reposition. There is a valid place for both playstyles and you can switch them on the fly. Apex in particular dropped such movement abilities and lowered the pacing because they wanted the game to be more tactical, they wanted team fights to be more predictable and for positioning to matter much more, and for them to last longer. Again ADS is a good fit for the game, where sliding and the movement abilities you do have such as the grapple or phase jump to make more of an impact. Something the maintenance team has failed to understand in the design of the more recent characters and weapons.

[@Nurse_Xochitl]

Live Service games generally suffer from an identity crisis though, among many other issues (especially the lack of offline modes, and game preservation). But pretty much this. The clip he showed, was of a player who ran through an open area, got spotted, and had to lose all their momentum to engage a long distance target. In other words, a perfectly blatant display of a skill issue. Might of better better to run through an area with more cover, or at least try to look through their own ADS before advancing.

[@AttacMage]

I think you missed the point of Titanfall. ADS allows for an insanely high skill ceiling when used in tandem with the movement. You don't lose speed if you ADS mid-air or while wallrunning or with gunrunner. The lack of hipfire bulletspread exists so that while moving quickly in close range you can still hit accurately, and ADS exists so you can still contest longer range gunfights regardless of movement. Titanfall isn't always about the movement. It certainly rewards it, but it also rewards careful play. Armor wall and cloak exist for this reason. You could maybe even say the same about grapple if you're using the kraber or other Marksmen weapons. It doesn't lose out due to double-dipping its fingers, it wins. I can have success playing with ADS or without, but it helps when I choose a gun that fits the playstyle I want to use. It also allows for weaknesses in some guns. Try to play at longer ranges so you can abuse your advantage with ADS, or learn to move quickly and with cover so you can approach and abuse your mobility and accuracy while out of ADS. The fun is that I can switch between these playstyles, and sometimes I'm even forced to do so. I don't see it as a bad thing that I can be moving across the map at lightning speed one second, but then forced to hunker down the next. It lends variety, at least to me, especially when I'm coming face-to-face with a titan. Should I try to be a gnat that flies around it hoping not to get swatted? Or should I try to hide in a cubby and get potshots out of windows? Forgive me if this isn't written all too well, I've only looked over it once and haven't thought all of it through. The other problem is that it's a very subjective outlook. I like being forced to lose momentum in some games as long as I can instantly regain it, and that's what TF|2 allows.

[@Nurse_Xochitl]

That is pretty much spot on. Without ADS, more games would become sweat fests. But ADS is situational and should be used as such.

[@docskiDev]

I added ADS to repuls mostly due to community requests. However, I added no penalties for using it. The only reason to ever use it is to engage with a distant target, what I found, is that most of my players start by trying it but naturally stop using it as they play longer since theres no advantage so its basically eyecandy. I will say I am super fond of the idea of having functions tied to aiming. I think the main problem with ADS as a feature is that it forces devs to use it by default, which forces ALL games to feel the same in some way or another.

[@DollaSignD]

Props honestly, that's a great compromise

[@docskiDev]

@@DollaSignD Yea but now I think of it, I do reduce your sensitivity slightly during ADS, so, it allows having a faster sensitivity for normal play but just incase you want to take a slower more precise shot, ADS helps there.

[@Nurse_Xochitl]

@@docskiDev That's pretty much how I setup ADS sights on non-magnified optics in my tactical shooters/milsims. Hipfire will always be less accurate, but better for reflex firing (like when being ambushed). But ADSing will decrease my sensitivity and allow for more accurate and precise aiming for longer distances. My magnified optics get even lower sensitivity.

[@aoooso6000]

halo infinite smart link or whatever its called isn't really ads its more of a zoom in but as you said it isn't all that needed and it removal won't do all that much great video man

[@aoooso6000]

@@EggEnjoyer im sorry but the reason why halo 4 and 5 play like other generic shooters is because it just take a mechanic from them like ads sprint loadout not because weapons have a longer range also tons of weapons from the bungie halo games wear capable of long or mid range fire and there were a lot of areas in campaign and multiplayer that allow for long range combat you can till me if im wrong

[@FakeGuthix01]

@@EggEnjoyer That's just because the potential for crossmapping people is limited when you're aiming on an Xbox controller. The original Halo CE on PC has played not too differently from Infinite since 2001 because everyone's using a mouse. And Infinite was designed with crossplay so it's balanced around mouse players having the ability to aim accurately at long distances, which means they have to give controllers more bullet magnetism on precision weapons so everyone can fight at long range.

[@REALMARCHINADER]

@@aoooso6000 Halo 4 doesn't have ads and Sprint was also in Reach. I feel like people are blaming Halo 4 way too much. If Bungie still stayed after Reach they would still add ads and sprint by default seeing as how they added it in Destiny 1. This was just how the gaming Industry was back then. It's just until recently when people started saying ADS sucks when back then most people would complain when an fps doesn't have them.

[@SuperCaitball]

You definitely moved your goalposts. Originally you said to get rid of it from any game that wasn't a hardcore milsim. Every time someone said "why get rid of it from all games", your response was "no! i didnt say all games! obviously it should be in one single game, American Gun Military Simulator 2022." Now you're saying it's okay in games that justify them, while listing games that you originally derided for having it.

[@soulsurvivor8293]

Having the feature of high mobility doesn't mean the game is focused on mobility, especially not to the exclusion of everything else. It's an option, in the first example where the player was running and gunning, you stated that he then 'had to' engage a distant opponent. The player didn't have to engage at all, they very well could have maintained their momentum and disengaged from the unfavourable gunfight by bounding behind the rock formation he was on. The player could have then crossed to the wall, backtracking to their previous engagement, and approached with speed along the wall behind the structure the distant opponent was at. The player could have even bounded behind the rock formation as before only to stop and use it as cover to engage from. There is a multitude of things the player could have done that didn't leave them in the open, attempting to exchange fire with an opponent that had already begun to land shots on them. It was a bad decision to attempt to close the distance in the open, plain and simple. Additionally, the tactical choice to remain still & use the ADS mechanic was likely being used against the player to begin with. Which clearly illustrates that it has it's use in engaging opponents at mid-long range whilst they are unaware of your presence. Note that the opponent didn't attempt to use any of the elaborate movement mechanics even after the player returned fire or attempted to close the distance. Almost like they knew if they did they were less likely to win against the player who was using the movement mechanics. Almost like there was some sort of accuracy and shooting mechanics in this "Movement Focused" game, odd.

[@Lh0000]

This as well, and I’d like to add that for some reason people seem to be under this bizarre idea you MUST pick one or the other, you can’t have mobility and ADS at the same time, and I have to ask why not? If you actually build around utilizing both mechanics properly instead of the most common solution of “your hip fire is like firing the gun but your arms are pool noodles” then there wouldn’t be a problem, tone down the penalty to hipfire and you can get pretty good use out of both, you use hipfire to engage at mid-close range and use ADS when engaging at mid-longe range (with some intentional overlap) you actually can have your cake and eat it too!

[@MrTheta-lc8zy]

This video should’ve been made long ago, good job. Also, Rush midis? Hell yeah.

[@narscauto]

I love the explanation and thought you put into every video and every video you have a very valid arguement, and you are so right about call of duty because comparing 2009 mw2 to 2022 mw2 the time to kill increases drastically

[@LittleEng1ne]

I'm glad that 343 decided to get rid of Halo 5 type of ads in infinite, but still I'd rather have classic zoom from halo 2 - 4 for non-precision weapons.

[@legocy-is-lazy]

"the more complex your movement, the more simple your shooting mechanics" its half true

[@jimshaly1]

dude's playing an 8 bit rendition of "Closer to the Heart" near the end of the video. I'm subscribing

[@britsfabrication]

Totally agree mate some games don't need it. Realistic shooters ads zombie game no ads except for snipers. Counterstrike would not be as iconic if it had ads.

[@Bis0Razorback]

True, and frankly too many games are focused on Realism as *thee* standard, and overall games have become less fun for it. Aside from some of the decent Boomer Shooters these last 3 years, FPS has been horribly stagnant for a decade.

[@TheSundayShooter]

@@Bis0Razorback _Boomer Shooters,_ that's rich! Back in my day, we called them Arena Shooters after Doom Clone was no longer applicable _Edited for typos and format_

[@Azure9577]

​@@TheSundayShooter play ULTRAKILL

[@yaspervaneerdt4415]

I may have missed it in one of your videos, but what do you think of TF2 as a shooter ? I personnally think it's probably the best arena shooter in a long time

[@ramsteele904]

Love your explanations and I couldn't agree more. Great vid as usual, keep it up!

[@aldraone-mu5yg]

Maybe I want to see the cool gun firing.

[@Marluxiaify]

Never seen a more adamant stance against an action that could literally just be unbound and ignored.

[@Goblinlikebeing]

And lose 90% of your accuracy? This is the worst take I've seen yet.

[@calvinmetz7900]

Had to rewind the whole ending and watch it again because I started just listening to the 8 bit Rush haha

[@bigza5097]

I'd like to see your take on planetside 2 if you make another ADS video. That game has sprint and ads like a typical shooter but hipfire is extremely accurate. People hipfire more than any other game with ads

[@codman4372wx]

A game that I had decided to replay was rainbow six vegas 2. It has ads in it while out of cover. I rarely if ever use it because I find the reticle to be more useful out of cover than ads. Not to mention the cover feature in that game doesn't even use ads so I don't think it was a necessary addition

[@giahuynguyenkim6389]

I think ADS only works in games where you actually engage targets beyond 50m or more.

[@orca1361]

I like how Hedon did with ads, it was the spiker/ar style rifle was the only one I believe used ads and the other guns had alt fire.

[@operatoralex5926]

I have watched your previous videos, and I just want to say that ADS is not inherently a bad mechanic, nor is it a good one or any other mechanic, it depends on the implementation of it. ADS can be used to help make the game be more realistic but it also allows for one more way to balance a game weapons. Like how fast it takes to ADS, how much hipfire does it have (it there is any at all), how much it zooms in etc. Doom 2016 show how you can still have ADS when it comes to a few of the weapons in the game. CS:GO is also the same with most of the weapons you can only hipfire them but a few weapons have the ability to use the scope to see further. And you could have a game where it’s a tactical realistic game where the player sees the world through a body cam so they can’t actually ADS but maybe use something else like a flashlight to aim. You could also have a fast paced boomer shooter where ADS can have each weapon has an unique ability whenever you ADS and it slows you down either little or not at all. I think call of duty shows that you can have a fast paste fps with ADS, as many have options to speed it up as well as different scope options in it. While having/not ADS is better for certain games than others that doesn’t mean that you can’t make it work, and just it’s existence or lack of in a game doesn’t make it better or worse. The most important part is how it fits in with the rest of the game, either the rest of the game is made to fit more with ADS or ADS is made to fit more the game. ADS doesn’t have to slow you down. ADS doesn’t have to tighten your hipfire spread, or even have any hipfire soread at all. ADS doesn’t have to be exclusively for slow paced games

[@p3dro824]

I can agree with the L4D example, but it's interesting to notice that L4D does have an ADS equivalent, you can crouch in order to trade movement for accuracy, and it works really well in lots of scenarios were you're not in close quarters.

[@dybixs1400]

Man made 3 videos about damn AIM DOWN SIGHTS 💀

[@ananon5771]

its in basically every AAA fps, it affects almost every fps player.

[@A3421]

@@ananon5771 then don’t play a fps if you don’t like it?

[@ananon5771]

@@A3421 if the answer to not liking something was always "just don't play it", most ecelebs would lack a career. also shredded is probably the only one who has actually asked why its in so many AAA games. If ADS was such a small thing, you would think more AAA fps without it, but other than OW and DOOM (both PC leaning fps), there are probably less than 5 AAA fps without it in the last 10 years (id love to be proven wrong though) Also FPS is my favorite genre, i play plenty of FPS (some even have ADS), many on PC don't feel a need for ADS, except AAA games for some reason, its not thar ADS should be in no games, i just don't think it should be every game.

[@A3421]

@@ananon5771 you really wrote a whole essay in a KZbin comment and think imma read that shit

[@ananon5771]

@@A3421 i wish that was a full essay. what i just wrote wasn't even a full paragraph.

[@urazoe8240]

i thinkn it really depends on the kind of game you want to make. ADS is something that I enjoy in games like Battlefield, but something that has no place in a game like Doom. a more arcady game like CS:GO is better with out it too. but a more simulation type game like Call of duty i cant imagine with out. I think the most importeand question is what kind of game are we making and does ADS have a place here or not. Its not good or bad, just a tool to be used when apropriate

[@Lh0000]

Exactly this, it all depends on the individual game, and maybe it’s just me but I have never played a game with ADS that was actively harmed by it, atleast not substantially. As it happens a lot of shooters tend to be built to make use of it.

[@Hot_SpicyGrill]

I think ads in Titian fall 2 is a mixed bag. While it dose slow you down it also lets you regain it when it’s over meaning everyone isn’t just sprinting everywhere like a cracked up pin ball game.

[@Nurse_Xochitl]

A mixed bag is a good thing though. Everyone running around like they're a headless chicken high on adrenaline is what ruins a lot of modern games for many players. It's why a lot of people are getting burned out.

[@Jelonz]

My man loving this topic.

[@SolFireYT]

In titanfall 2 I primarily built my weapons and kit for run and gun, only adsing for extreme long range targets. My focus was mobility and positioning to get around my opponent. For some reason I really liked the p2016 until it was nerfed. It was some of the most fun I’ve had in shooters and I rarely ADSed it was almost unnecessary

[@Chrisspru]

i think a pseudo ads that is simply a binocular like in old halo but does not un-zoom when firing is ok in halo. basicly just something to check what is going on and to take potshots beyond non-zoom weapons red reticule range.

[@citizenofhyrule]

i disagree on apex and titanfall ads, i feel it has its place for i played both and ads is a commitment, it does improve your aim but its up to you to get moving again as soon as youre done engaging. but boy do i agree with you if you would have mentioned serious sam 3, its so weird in that game, it really adds nothing to it other than the fact it has it.

[@AndrewRedW]

I think "ADS" can still work in movement shooters if it wasn't slowing the player down. It can still serve a function of making it easier to aim at a distant enemies. Just like how it was done in Quake arena 3. When using a railgun you were not constantly running around zoomed in, you would only use that to allign the shot.

[@Neogears1312]

I think a game that doesn’t get enough credit for this is overwatch. It’s one the most mainstream games of the last decade, arguably the second most mainstream game. But a vast majority of the cast lack ADS. The only character that have it are Ana Widowmaker and Ashe. Mcree who plays very similar as a mid range sniper doesn’t have this at all, neither does the CoD inspired soldier 76, or Apex inspired Sojourn. They are aware that most of the cast do not need this it’s superfluous to the character design it merely wastes time so they didn’t include it, much like ammo reserves because it was better for the pace. And the 3 characters who do have it validate the inclusion by fundamentally changing how shooting works. Ana’s shots are projectiles you have to lead when unscripted but when aiming down sights they’re hitscan making it easier to hit people from far away at the cost of having a slower fire rate while aiming and leaving tracers to let people know where she’s shooting from, creating a high skill ceiling. Widows gun simply is just two guns depending on if she ADS’. It’s an instant kill headshot sniper rifle if you scope that again leaves tracers letting people know what sight lines to respect, but the non ads fire is a smg bullet hose meant to be an up close emergency pray and spray option. And while ash’s gun is unchanged mechanically it’s still a decision of a high impact shot or a much quicker to shoot spam shot. And this effects your ttk a lot. Ads should have a purpose that fundamentally changes how you handle a gun and what you can do with a tool kit and OW does that fantastically. More games should take inspiration from this because it was a very successful game. It showed you can be popular and do that. No one complained once the assault rifles couldn’t ads because it was never a problem.

[@Underqualified_Gunman]

i wish to see more games with a defacto ADS mechanic like hideous destructor has. theres not a button to press for it but is somewhat based off player movement and aiming.

[@voodoo1582]

excellent video as always but I feel like Respawn allowed the more unique and compelling elements of Titanfall 2 i.e. movement, titans, etc. to be removed and gutted when the far less damaging choice would have been to simply cut aim down sights and relegate it to a zoom feature like in the reach DMR, CE magnum, halo 3 BR55, etc.

[@reginadea2821]

I don't think ADS has no place in Titanfall. There, it is as much a tactical choice as it is in CoD. One of the attachments you can put on guns lets you shoot while sprinting, ensuring that you will always have access to the gun and not slow down a single bit, regardless of what you are doing. In a gunfight, you have the choice to maintain your movement and close the distance (or run away), or aim and engage from a distance - that is, the movement can either be your weapon or a tool to get you into advantageous positions. Which you plan on using it as, I would think, you would have already decided upon when putting together your gun's attachments and the rest of your kit. I would say that classifies as a tradeoff; aiming hinders movement, but only if you're using movement as a weapon paired with your gun.

[@Gamerteamguy]

Also note that there’s almost no one who worked on left4dead who worked on back4blood literally artist and one executive I think.

[@Asas_TV]

Very good points made. While ADS as a gameplay mechanic isn't bad, it seems its being shoehorned into games that don't need it is where the mechanic becomes overbearing and intrusive, often hurting the gameplay.

[@AdrX003]

as far as i can remember my eyes are what hurt literally when i cant ADS in a game were i need to see an enemy thats far away.

[@aldraone-mu5yg]

I don’t understand why people sight ADS as an improvement in New Vegas over 3. I think it makes the combat even more clunky.

[@pigeondude2468]

Fallout 3's gunplay always felt more smoother to me for some reason because Fallout New Vegas gunplay felt way worse because aim down.

[@merucrypoison296]

This is what I see when I’m preforming TND

[@GenesisAria]

I don't think it's wrong to have a foot in both worlds, as for example when i play classic insurgency on modded pve servers with boosted bots, you constantly have a dynamic trade-off between high-octane close-quarters shootouts due to the bots idiotically bum-rushing you, and also slower methodical takedowns to deal with their quite accurate long range firing, to avoid getting caught with your trousers down. Classic Insurgency doesn't trade off accuracy between "hip" (not actually hip but shouldered without sighting), and i haven't really thought about if it trades movement speed at all, but what it does is improve your awareness of where you are aiming, because you do not shoot centre-screen, as you can aim around your screen fluidly when not ADS and do not have a reticle to aid you (unless you have a laser). However ADS does effect recoil, it transfers it from the gun floating on your screen recoiling and shooting higher up in your view -- to the recoil being attached to your camera, so you have direct feedback where you are going to hit -- so it mostly comes down to whether you need the extra control for proper ranged shots or not. This is not a drawback at all in games that want to add this depth to the game, as covered before. Games like Titanfall are mostly damaged by the movement-flow breaking of ADS, rather than the risk-reward of ADS itself, such as if ADS in Titanfall didn't slow you down or anything, and the tradeoff is more in momentarily impaired vision or, as said, a mechanical trade-off of the weapon, such as aim-assist inaccurate without and then zero aim-assist but hyper-accurate when scoping. ...One could say that stuff such as assassination animation locks are flow-breaking in similar ways, and they are, but people will at times consider them a rule of cool and take the risk-reward tradeoff for being indisposed and vulnerable during a takedown (an alternative is to have assassination moves as a cosmetic addition, effectively a tactical handicap in order to flex your coolness). Likewise, having an option to enable benefits for aiming and drawbacks for non-ADS if you choose to use cod style weapon handling instead of classic, and have it proportionally balanced. That said, there is a very severe lacking of classic-style fps that, as you say, require a lot more multi-tasking, and fast thinking. This is a higher calibre of fps from a bygone era that is sorely missed -- back when pro gaming required far more mental and physical ability, and made it more praiseworthy.

[@MisterGoose]

1:41 my man has clearly never 2 shot a charger with a frying pan

[@SL4PSH0CK]

I love it more when games fix this issues, when aiming down sights makes you move slow, also in vermintide when aiming changes the overall projectile/damage/aoe of the weapon.

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

Absolutely agree. Sometimes, it is just not needed at all. In some games, like Isonzo, it's absolutely necessary. And immersive, which is very important in Isonzo. But in Halo? Why? Doom? Same question. etc.

[@orangeyvr4015]

i agree alot when i play black ops 3 i dont use my lright click thats why i use deadshot alot

[@HexxuSz]

imagine if we had actual option of: turn off screen shake

[@encross8058]

I'm glad you've kept up on this topic because it's a good topic to talk about and the way you brought up Titanfall brought up a good point in the way it could interrupt the flow of a game it isn't designed for.

[@PurpleColonel]

I don't think ive ever enjoyed forced ADS before. But ill use it in stuff like doom with mods because it can add that small bit of immersion

[@wolfiewoo3371]

I disagree with your point that videos with value judgements are automatically subjective. If I followed that logic to it's endpoint I could argue that literally everything is subjective.

[@noxanneballadynasowacka6125]

Brutal DOOM botched ADS the most out of the games I’ve played lately. Having realized the shotgun’s fire rate is much higher while aiming down sights, I constantly catch myself using that, even though it drastically screws with the pacing of the original DOOM levels.

[@ananon5771]

play other mods. id recommend project babel, though if you want something more over the top, combined arms, treasure tech and GMOTA are also good picks.

[@MrOrgeston]

@@ananon5771 Dosbox is the only way to play. Or floppy disk with the original and a real machine of the era to boot it up on.

[@spiceforspice3461]

It doesn't even make sense in Brutal Doom either, since you're always aimed down sights in the original Doom anyways. That's why the gun is in the middle.

[@vladimirkirillovskiy8056]

I like both games with and without ADS. But as you've said, games must be fun! I would say ADS is like reloading, you can remove it as well, it is a game, why not? It's an additional feature that adds more variables in the game, to make it more interesting. Not everyone enjoys run and gun high speed insanity. I would say that is a marketing decision, as your comments proofs - most people like it, and I don't think that is because they have been brainwashed by COD. I haven't played Titanfall, but I can agree with your vision, as I don't think games should have fixed rhythm - it will become boring and less balanced.

[@theenderclops]

I'd like to note that SmartLink in HALO Infinite is not truly meant to only replace ADS, but also the ancient binocular system they had in previous titles. The binoculars needed an update, and SmartLink provided the *correct* evolution of it (imo).

[@heftymagic4814]

No, smart link is not an evolution of binoculars. They don't serve the same purpose at all. The binoculars were never meant to be a trade-off tactical mechanic, so the question still remains: Is smart link just 343s way of shoehorning ADS as a feature in halo? Yes. Does it work as a feature/derivative of ADS for halos balancing and design mechanics? Absolutely not.

[@theenderclops]

@@heftymagic4814 ok but smartlink is not a trade off. it does nearly exactly the same thing as binoculars.

[@Lavadeeto]

@@theenderclops You can't shoot when in binocs though, you un scope immediately as you fire. They only added bincos so the player had something happen when pressing the zoom button when no scope is present.

[@EatThePath-7]

@@theenderclops 'nearly exactly the same thing' except for the extremely reduced zoom and the fact you can shoot with smartlink, allowing to extend the range of some weapons like the AR, but otherwise they are identical, totally.

[@FakeGuthix01]

@@heftymagic4814 It's not ADS. There's no difference in the performance of your gun whether you scope in or not unless there's an alt fire mode. All Halo Infinite has is a zoom in function on every gun. You know what other game has that? Quake 3.

[@chameleoncamo1554]

I love the font choice for the patron shoutouts 🥸🤓

[@BRAMCRACK3R]

Yeah idk I think smartlink in Halo isn't a issue. Its the same as how Quake 3 has a zoom button it doesn't really need but you can use if you want. I prefer a "just zoom the camera a bit" button over ADS any day.

[@ianbowden2524]

Look people just add it because that's how you'd actually look at a gun if you were gonna shoot it.

[@synestia4005]

The streamers say that about every single gun, even if the gun is just mediocre. That's their job. They hype things up, for clicks, for views. You should watch what they use the most over a longer period of time to really know which guns they really like. For example Jarv used the VY7 smg for a very long time, which wasn't even meta, which made it clear that he really liked the gun. But a video showcasing the new loot is not an indicator if a content creator actually likes the gun or not. That's just their job. They won't say anything too bad about it. And the BXR is just a overly strong gun. It was overtuned. Not using this gun would be a noticable disadvantage. Same for the exotic scoutrifle which had to get nerfed several times and is still very strong.

[@notyourbusiness8475]

When are you gonna post Soy lore 3?

[@jubibi390]

what did the zombie say?

[@user-mf3oc6mj5l]

One of the most hardcore and skillful FPS that I ever played (certainly the most hardcore in aim requirements) is The Regiment, in part because it has ADS. It's a single player tactical CQB FPS, that replicates famous SAS operations like the Iranian embassy siege. Your base movement speed is pretty fast. The gameplay puts a lot of time pressure on you (because Speed Aggression Surprise): each mission has a deadline of just few minutes and every bad guy needs to be dropped ASAP or else. Hipfire is handicapped by low accuracy and no cross. Accuracy while moving is atrocious, strafing is significantly slower than forward movement. For each room, you need to run in to let your other guys follow you, "dominate" your corner and shoot every hostile in your sector. Because hostages are involved, you have to use ADS, but you don't have time to adjust your aim in ads. And, unlike games like Quake, you can't aim with your feet. So the only proper way to do this is to have a good no scope flick aim, then ads and double tap. And do it 10-20 times per mission without failure.

[@iFurane]

I see you're also using Max Payne 3 mod for Nick. Man of culture.

[@acethemain7776]

You should talk about krunker. it's like the best movement deathmatch shooter that still has somewhat of a playerbase.

[@4shotpastas]

Yeah ads in titanfall has always been weird to me. I never bothered, made me really good at apex cause my non ads style gameplay gave me high accuracy

[@MrOrgeston]

Control is bizarre. It feels like they built an entirely unique game about telekinesis and tearing apart the fabric of reality, and then crammed that inside a cookie-cutter Unreal Engine FPS template and loaded it up with weapon upgrades and armor and everything else. That game really didn't need to be such a typical shooter, it has so much more going for it. Like why am I running around through menus trying to micromanage my damage output, when this is a single-player narrative game about creepypasta SCP stuff?

[@moe__dev]

A question is ads good for slow movement and tactical games?

[@JohanRealman]

Without ADS in Titanfall mastering the kraber would be far less satisfying.

[@SolFireYT]

I only like the smart link( it’s just zoom) in halo only cause my eyes suck and I like magnification

[@cripple8339]

One concern for games not having ads would be that it would directly make controller worse. Not because of aim assist but because ads allows a balance between high sensitivity and precise aiming

[@yphoenix5957]

Not going to make excuses, I didn't watch this video for 11 months because I like Aim-down sight, it gives me some sort of false sense of security over a transparent cursor. You make a good point sir.

[@8instantramen]

powerful

[@InfinitelyWithin]

Haha I love that he used footage of angery birds pigs as zombies in left for dead 🤣

[@unknownwill4th549]

Powerful

[@jaylus5694]

Even though I agree ADS dosen't really suit Halo 343 handled the system pretty well since most of the gun in 5 and Infinite are already pretty accurate. It genuinely isnt hard to get kills in multiplayer without ADS in those games unlike Call of Duty where it feel like you do f-all without it. Smart-Link is mainly just used to get long-range kills, nothing more.

[@Pttsharpshooterpt]

Yeah barely any point to ADS in close to mid range which is how most fights are. I’d say it was more added to cater to players who like having the ability to ADS like cod and it was put in the game to where it didn’t change up the gameplay too much

[@4realm8rusirius]

I hate how they removed the scope of the RL in infinite along with lock on air vehicles what's the point of ADS it doesn't even zoom far enough to be even remotely useful or have any alt fire like the Hydra.Also why does 343 keeps reducing the reserves of guns it's annoying

[@pododododoehoh3550]

Titanfall 2 is a perfect example. As a movement shooter its biggest issue as a long time player was the unwillingness to commit fully to its design. There are abilities like the shield that promote sitting on one spot and aiming down sights with a long range rifle buzzing people who are moving out of the air. Almost everyone who played that game hated the g2 and shield because it defied the otherwise fantastic game design, not just for the player abusing them but all the high skill players having their match ruined by the user.

[@5hane9ro]

It depends on the game. If it's a slower paced/semi realistic (EX: Rainbow Six and Battlefield), ADS works. If it's meant to be very arcady, it's bad (Ex: Back for Blood and CoD Zombies)

[@8instantramen]

Yeah I felt the same, the moment I saw ADS and sprint in Back 4 Blood. I knew it wasn't going to be a big hit, something about it having all the cliches of a FPS just didn't ensure confidence in it's performance. Sucks because it was one of the games I was looking forward to for the year.

[@Mabra51]

clichés* its*

[@AParticularlyConcernedCitizen]

The only build I ever used in it had zero recoil, an extremely fast movement speed with no sprint and 100% accuracy with no ADS. You can get the experience you want if you know how to set up the cards. That being said, it's still a broken mess even now and has the problem every co-op shooter has of randoms seemingly not understanding what the word cooperative actually means. Darktide is a great example of how a community can ruin an excellent game. It has no solo or private queues and doesn't appear to have rank based matchmaking either, so it's a dice roll between getting absolutely shafted or playing with Vermintide pros.

[@danramirez8553]

I've been saying this for years. People in the apex community would stop batching about aim assist in apex if the requirement to ads was just a visual preference rather then a means to remove the high spread of bullet pattern. People who actually have aim would out do the auto aim plebs because the game wouldn't be so rewarding for such a passive playstyle and all the visual clutter wouldn't be as impact full.

[@DirtyDanRichards]

Really you're going to talk about ads in destiny without even mentioning Last Word? The gun that PUNISHES you for ADS-ing with it.

[@holdinmcgroin8639]

Gemerald

[@airesartz7196]

Womp womp

[@sneedfeedandseed2410]

thats it, you're going into the nerd shredder.

[@_Ve_98]

Game Dev here. Honestly, I found these videos by chance while looking for videos on how to properly implement aim assist. I saw the title of the first one and I was kinda expecting some shit contrarian take on ADS but instead I found a pretty nuanced analysis of the issues with ADS. I'd like to think that I would notice issues like this on my own, but I certainly will now. I have nothing really meaningful to add, you've pretty much covered everything, but if I had to nitpick something it would be the whole "fast movement shooters shouldn't have ADS". While I see your issues with Titanfall (can't give my opinion, I haven't played it) I do think it can be done. You, of course, have to understand how those two mechanics oppose each other and make it so ADS doesn't completely slow the game to a crawl by being always the superior option in combat. Instead, you make moving unrestricted the superior one and make ADS be a risky thing that you should think twice before doing. Basically the oposite as how most FPS handle ADS vs Non-ADS combat efficacy. This sounds too abstract, let's imagine what a game like that would look like. Titanfall like movement, all snipers, you can't even shoot without ADSing and you literally lose all momentum the moment you do. If you're mid-air you will literally freeze on position for 0.1 seconds then fall to the ground. This incentivizes not moving and camping advantageous positions, there's only one issue: If you stop moving you lose all the charge (ammo) in your weapon and it recharges by moving, the higher the speed and the more you style the faster. Each shot spends all the charge in the weapon and the damage is proportional to it. But since it also freezes you in place it makes you an easy target, meaning that you have to constantly run around the map, constantly crossing paths with your enemies trying to find the perfect moment to score a kill on a fast moving target without exposing yourself too much. Melee doesn't deal damage but pushes both you and the enemy, and steals their charge. You can't shoot enemies point blank, maybe make it so if an enemy gets to close to yo you can't even ADS. Anyway, sorry for the game pitch, I just had the Idea while watching the videos and thought it was an interesting concept. Might try to implement it one day.

[@SeedemFeedemRobots]

reject ADS embrace alt-fires

[@EvilNMessedUp]

I actually like the ADS in Halo Infinite. It doesn’t re are the player at all, just giving them a slight zoom. If there is one weapon that is negatively impacted by ADS, it’s the sniper, where it has bloom when not scoped in.

[@heftymagic4814]

Just because they nerfed it doesn't mean it works with halos design balancing in mind. It's still basically the one thing you do every encounter for no trade off for effective kills in any situation

[@Pttsharpshooterpt]

@@heftymagic4814 who tf aims down sight all the time in halo infinite, the difference from aim down sights vs hip fire is very negligible unless you’re at long range which makes sense

[@FakeGuthix01]

@@heftymagic4814 Bruh, watch pros play Infinite. They literally never scope in with the BR unless aiming at an unsuspecting target because you get descoped when you get hit which throws off your aim so it's better to not even scope in to begin with when you know the enemy going to shoot back.

[@Ca18detEnjoyer]

As someone who's more of a fan of more realistic games, I see ads and first person as being something I need in a shooter to enjoy it and with more recent games allow for much more diverse playstyles, I think including ads in anything first person is the best option as its easier for someone who doesn't like ads to not use ads (as ads is always an option) than for someone who plays with ads to not have any ability for ads. However for third person games...I don't see why ads exists at all, If you're using a sniper then yeah it makes sense but otherwise I see it as being a bit off and on the rare chance I enjoy a third person game I even more rarely enjoy the ads in it. The back for blood point where ads takes away from it... I can't say I agree with that, I do understand where you're coming from but I've played quite a bit of back for blood and I never found the ads an issue, I would run around with hipfire up until either 1. I was low on ammo and needed to be more conservative or 2. I was at the end or near a section where I was relatively free of zombies and a friend at a distance needed help. I don't think ads in back for blood is wrong at all, Use cod zombies as an example, which often times has less room and zombies have a lot more damage. Hipfiring in cod zombies is almost always the main form of shooting. Mentioning cod, The last few times I had played a multiplayer match it featured a lot of people disregarding ads and just hipfiring. In total I don't think being against ads is bad, it's just that being on the side of wanting ads I don't see an issue with having it as an option in something first person, if its third person I don't really have an opinion on as those aren't games I often play. I just see the inclusion as ads in most games being the better option as in does encourage more people to continue the game, I've never been able to get into any halo or counter strike as I find the use of a tiny crosshair in the middle of your screen, and not the gun itself, to be highly off putting for anything that isn't just spray and pray whihc somewhat ruined my first impression of those games and I haven't since been able to enjoy them, Where as I have a friend who never uses ads who plays more ads focused games without issue. And yes that's not the same experience everyone has but the point is that I see the inclusion of ads being better than the exclusion as it massively encourages the ability to have variety in playstyles instead of everyone always using the same gun, class, set up or whatever as that is what truly causes the death of a game. Still a very good video overall and despite not being anyone who wants it, I still think a overly arcady shooter is something a lot of people would want

[@ananon5771]

The problem with "just not using ADS" is that games are designed for the options they present. if i was making an FPS and i replaced the alt-fires with ADS (its hard to make good bindings for having alt-fires and ADS, so it tends to be only one), id totally change the game and balance, and in most faster fps, id be for the worse by a long shot.

[@Ca18detEnjoyer]

@@ananon5771 when I've seen games with Alt fires it's always bound to a completely different button to the ads button, I've seen some where like a vehicle has those switched around but otherwise I've always seen ads being left trigger or right click, and the fire mod switch being on the d-pad or on a random button on a keyboard Never the other way around

[@ananon5771]

@@Ca18detEnjoyer those games are rare and the alt-fires are pretty rarely used.

[@Ca18detEnjoyer]

@@ananon5771 any recommendations of them so I could try them out?

[@ananon5771]

@@Ca18detEnjoyer (this list is by no means comprehensive, just glanced at my steam library, also left out games that only have alt-fires on a few weapons or games i just didn't like/didn't own yet) the new doom games (2016 and eternal), many classic FPS fames (like unreal gold, UT, blood, HL series, shadow warrior (og, not remake)) , and the new wave classic style games like ion fury, cultic, ultrakill, and the upcoming selaco. There are also classic doom (and other older fps) mods,but if i looked, that list would go on and on. Its less common in modern AAA games cause its forced down the throat of all of them, like no FPS can do it differently. (Zoom/scoping in halo infinite is honestly an outlier, with zoom being mostly gone aswell).

[@mislav_jankovic]

The best back 4 blood builds are those, which make your accuracy 95%-100% and disable unnecessary ADS.

[@christiancountryboyilovejesus]

What do you mean Apex Legends does too have fast times to kill. It's always fast when they kill me. Real fast!!!