How Gay Loneliness Convinces Us that Body Image is Currency

There's been an interesting conversation taking place on gay TikTok that I wanted to bring over here to KZbin. It's about how gay loneliness convinces us that body image is currency.
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[@javauncharlton2690]

It's compensation, we as homosexuals are a minority and like most minorities, we have to work 3 times as hard, physically, socially, financially but not emotionally which is why we are having this epidemic. We need to start seeking meaniful friendships instead of situationships

[@JassminaVellucci]

I live in the lgbtq community in my country. Lots of things don’t get talked about or enough. Sometimes I find everyone in their own little groups within the community.

[@newagehero9605]

Thissss

[@hickorysocks2628]

This is so on point. Behind almost every gay man that is ultra focused on their appearance and body, is someone running from loneliness and past felt pain of rejection.

[@BackstreetGlambert]

This totally needs to be talked about

[@paulnadolski2814]

I guess I'm lucky to have come of age (I'm 45 now) in the days before social media. I've known a lot of gay men, of all different body types, and I can honestly say that, for me, attractiveness is more than just having a perfect body. Having said that, it doesn't help that our culture endlessly tells you that if you aren't a ripped Instastud you aren't attractive and no one would want to have sex with you. Personally, I'll pass on the Instastuds and take an average looking guy with a great heart any day.

[@DonnyWinter]

Excellent points. Every time I log on Instagram I feel that I'm being bombarded by this "preferred" aesthetic. I have moments where it still gets to me; however, I'm in a drastically better place with my body than I used to be.

[@Thechimeradragon-xc9tq]

I feel that gay men validate themselves through sex. Very similar to a drug addiction. The hotter the guy, the better. I mean, if you say you want monogamy, you're looked at strangely. Almost like having anonymous unprotected sex with whoever will give it to you, is the norm.

[@thekajalflaneur]

Second this ❤

[@igortirkajla8042]

the same - my favourite type is the guy next door (and I consider myself as being one myself), and I am the absolute sucker for a "good heart". For me that is the most attractive trait that one could have. On the other hand, if I thomk of someone as "he looks like a adult performer" it kinda turns me off. Nothing against the industry (for some of these people that is about as close as I can get near these types of men), but I simply cannot think beyond sex. With that being said, there absolutely are absolutely gorgeous, yt super nice men. That's why I try to wait to make a final judgement after the first impression, and getting to know the person. And that goes both ways - back in the days of the dating sites, I took a chance and went on a date with a guy who was very hesitant to share any picture, despite having seen many of my photos at my profile, but he was very nice and fun to talk to. 12 years after (10 of it living together), we are still holding strong :)

[@Cepheus773]

I never felt attractive until a couple years ago when I started working out and putting a huge amount of effort into my appearance. I felt like I had to have a nice body to "earn" the right to be loved. I've definitely gotten more attention, but I quickly realized that these people couldn't give a shit less about who I am as a person. I'm trying to shift my focus into wanting to be healthy for myself, because I've worked myself so hard to fit the beauty standard and it never made me feel any less lonely. I'm just looking to find someone who really wants to get to know who I am.

[@MAJ12268]

I'm 55 now, and I do not consider myself lonely or unattractive; that is, until I go out to the local gay bar (there's only one), or to a gay event, and I see all the young beautiful people there who never notice me. I realize then that I have very little, if any, sexual capital in this "community." And that's when I feel lonely and just really shitty about myself! It's rarely fun, and a relief to go home!

[@Your-dad-with-milk140]

+ leaving a comment for the algorithim, but i dont have anything meaningful to add except i think this is an important topic

[@DonnyWinter]

Thank you, friend ♥️

[@tommywu9867]

These topics are very prevalent in the gay community. Social media brings out the worst of our behavior and we are all complicit. If you post hot pics, you get lots of Likes. That encourages you to do more and so on. We all want certain kind of validation and being hot is an easy one. Getting a Nobel Prize is not. Therefore, obtaining a gym fit body is easier. On the topic of loneliness, I still can't wrap my head around this topic. The survey says many of us claim to be lonely but I don't see how it's possible. After the lockdown and more places are opening up, I go out and try to reconnect with people. What I found was people are too busy to make the time to do zoom or coffee. This is not dating or anything, just common interest friends. Maybe I have misread our initial connections at a gallery show or wherever, people seem to be too busy to do something about their loneliness. This sounds oxymoron and yes it is.

[@DonnyWinter]

You make some incredibly thought-provoking points here. I think the pandemic significantly complicated peoples' ability to go out and make connections. One could aruge that that still continues to impact the LGBTQ+ community even more-so, considering many in our community already struggle finding safe spaces/belonging.

[@lordsxman]

Yes some people are too busy. Please consider how lots of people have second jobs, have dependents to take care of, are going to school and work full-time, or are active members in some community like church or D&D. Investing in a new social connection is a risk to these people especially if the social date leads nowhere.

[@AurorXZ]

Argh I feel this. I deal with a couple of disfigurements from childhood and my relationship with Beauty has been contentious, to say the least. Desire is a scourge, since I've never had anyone feel it for me, and I can't fathom that changing. =/ The loneliness cuts to my core.

[@PublicenemyPeter]

Thank you so much for talking about this. I often find myself in my adult life applying certain limitations, standards and comparisons on myself, it’s an ingrained pattern. We need more gays talking about this with one another

[@DonnyWinter]

Thank you! ♥️ I couldn't agree more!

[@lordsxman]

Idk I'm old fat black poor AND gay. When I was in my 20's I felt that being overweight black and poor (or some combination thereof) kept me out of most in-crowd gay parties. To this day I've never been to any of the color parties (black, white, blue etc) or nor been on a gay cruise. That's mostly because of money but I've also known that highly attractive gay men and gays with drugs often get free passes to those events. With regards to my body size, I turned to the bear community. Although I still had to contend with being too poor to go to Bear Week and other such events, and guys not liking me because I'm not hairy enough, thuggish enough or white enough, it was much better than the open looks of contempt I got from white twinks when I ventured to their events. Most of the body image problems went away when I started hanging around more bears but like you said, it goes away. In my life, it's been replaced by other insecurities. Nowadays my body weight is a major problem because of my health issues. I've got high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, and congestive heart failure all of which were caused by my diet and my weight. So maybe I should've stayed with the white twinks and gotten bullied into being a size 34 waist. 🤷🏿🤷🏿🤷🏿

[@DonnyWinter]

I really appreciate you sharing your perspective. I don't think staying in groups where you get bullied into a particular size is a good thing in any context. Your experiences prove that many of the social issues impacting are community are interconnected - considering there's a lot of body discrimination and racism prevalent. Again, thank you for sharing - I honestly think sharing our stories is one way we can help mend the issues our community navigates. ❤

[@zandariko1942]

Thank you for talking about this, I needed it so much once upon a time and just to say, you're gorgeous, especially the smarts 😘

[@BlackHatTy]

Yep, here I am at 52 slightly overweight but wealthy and pretty successful. Because im not attractive I rarely succeed in relationships. Ive skipped meals, hurt myself with exercise and try my hardest to take care of myself. Even the heavy older guys only want twinks and jocks. Often I wish I was asexual and hate being gay. I cant help my age and my height (im about 15 lbs overweight). Most guys want fit younger guys. I have accepted I will be most likely alone. Not to be down on myself, I have a lot of attributes but am not handsome. Thanks Donny. Youre a good looking guy.

[@sprague49]

"Even the heavy older guys only want twinks and jocks." You're obviously not looking within the Bear community. Twinks and Jocks are like kryptonite to Bears. And if you don't think you're handsome, grow a full beard. Facial hair hides a multitude of sins.

[@tlukaku]

"Most guys want fit younger guys" - if I may ask, what do YOU want?

[@arroncuellar9347]

I can’t tell you enough how spot on this video is. As a former bigger guy I still feel invisible to some people and that’s ok. It’s taken a lot of effort to accept that trying appeal to everyone is no way to live. I have scars from my weight loss and I’ve embraced my imperfections. The men who are worth your effort will see more than a body and actually have substance to their connections.

[@DonnyWinter]

Thank you for this empowering response. I agree - the right person will value you in your entirety. ❤

[@FloppedASF]

i have a lifetime of multiple eating disorders as a gay men ive been both obese and underweight, i dont think its ever gonna go away for me

[@DonnyWinter]

In those instances, sometimes all we can do is do our best at maintaining our health (both physical and mental). Don't give up. ❤

[@jeffbarnes54]

I totally agree with you concerning this topic. I have pontificated about this within my friend group for years. I came out when I was 16 in 1982 and from then until 1997 I felt like I was the ugliest, most unwanted and unaccepted gay man within the gay community. All of the thoughts I had about how wonderful my life would be after I came out were total daydreams. It was like being thrust into the cast of mean girls and the gay men that I was around at the time treated me worse than any straight kids ever had. I was never heavy, but I was not built, but I started on a regiment in 1996 and I achieved really good results and I was happy about that. I did start getting more attention from guys And somewhere very, very good looking the type that never would have paid me at any attention before. But did that bring me happiness? The answer is no because the attention I got was for sex and at first I dove right into it after having been denied so much for so long. What I found out was that the one thing I wanted most, which was a partner , I was not attracting that and I think it’s because in my mind I was still the old me although my physical appearance had changed. The damage from that abusive trauma at such a young age was there and it’s still there to this day at 59 years old. Today I have come to a place of some inner Peace and acceptance of being alone,. I have a small group of really good friends and a great job and a nice apartment and a nice car and supportive family and I am content with that. If someone were to come along, I would be open, but I am not out in bars. I’m not online. I don’t do social media. I would hate to be a young LGBTQ person today because I can only imagine that the stress and the need to be accepted is greater than it ever was in 1982 when I was 16.

[@gustavolasso236]

Hey jeff. It was great reading your comment, it resonated with me and how i feel right now. Im a 31 year old gay guy? Would you be open to chat?

[@xrossplayxino]

Great video! I just wanted to drop by and say that I love every gay friend I have. Let's start untangling attraction with the love we and our peers deserve.

[@mooganstooker2419]

Let's start with getting rid of pride parades.

[@DonnyWinter]

@@mooganstooker2419 not sure if that'd fix anything

[@wadafik]

This topic kinda resonates with me. I'm not obsessed with the gym but I look relatively good and lately I've been frequenting gay bathhouses and the reception that I got really boosted my confidence. But despite all the warmth received, it felt kinda empty. I can't even hold a conversation with the guys i met there.

[@DonnyWinter]

This hits that feeling, exactly. Thank you for sharing this. There is a certain emptiness or hollowness to it all.

[@zitrandy]

Excellent points, thanks for posting.

[@DonnyWinter]

Thanks! ♥️

[@arthurchan1993]

I completely agree. I feel isolated from the mainstream gay community. I don’t like crowded clubs/parties, I don’t go to the gym and I’m skinny-fat (and short), and I don’t want to conform to/participate in the toxic gym/fitness culture. And on the issue of gay men’s body image problems, I don’t know if it’s just me, but I feel that it’s even worse here in Australia - our mainstream culture/media are already saturated with contact sports, muscular (white) men, and health/fitness information, and men are generally expected to go to the gym and look physically fit/muscular, even before considering what/who is accepted in the gay community.

[@torin93]

Body image isn’t currency. Through my 60 years on this planet I have met plenty of good looking hot queer men that suffer from loneliness. looks might get you plenty of sex, but it can be a hindrance to a meaningful relationship

[@robbiejay]

I am 42 now, I think I had my good days in terms of hooking up but I am completely inexperienced in building an emotional connection with a guy. I was a bit picky (maybe still). Even though I lived in big cities, I was not lucky to find a match. I am attracted to straight passing guys and I dont care about their body type that much but I am still a part of the community so of course affected by the beauty standards that I cant keep up. Therefore I am in peace with being alone for the rest of my life. If I cannot find the true connection, I am not going to force myself just to be in a relationship.

[@onlygafabotwhatigafbout8495]

As someone who has been fat to bodybuilder six pack and back again.dating and hookups are easier when I’m lifting weights and in shape.so yeah I’m going to continue to do that bye

[@DonnyWinter]

@@onlygafabotwhatigafbout8495 You do you, boo. Doesn't negate the fact that the way we've been conditioned to shame ourselves is problematic.

[@adrianfeeger]

It's not just the gay community, and it's not just about loneliness. The issue extends beyond any single group and is rooted in the creation of body norms, originally imposed on women through capitalism, which have now permeated society at large. These manufactured ideals fuel insecurity to drive consumerism. What makes this particularly challenging within the gay community is its smaller size, combined with pervasive shame and trauma. As a result, many struggle with emotional regulation and resort to unhealthy coping mechanisms, such as sex, drugs, shopping, self-harm, reckless behaviour, and impulsivity, to manage their difficult emotions.

[@alejandromorales9516]

This is no joke. I just had to cull some friends from my life because I will want to go connect with them 1:1 out and about and just talk, catch up, etc. and inevitably we end up someplace where they are busy checking people out while I'm talking and then when they talk all they talk about are who they had sex with and who they want to have sex with and it just started to make me feel like I am not hypersexual enough to have gay male friends anymore (this is a bs narrative, but hey working through these narratives is what I signed up for as an gay adult). I will also point out that I am privileged to live in NYC so I have options beyond the bars/clubs/etc and I get to be creative and find ways to meet people that doesn't rely on body image as currency, but I feel really bad for people who live in places where the only 3d space (a space that's not home or work) for gay men is either a cruising spot or a bar. And digital communities are nice, but I don't think they replace IRL time with people. The silver lining is ... most every adult finds it hard to find belonging. We basically work a lot then go home and recover and order takeout. Rinse and repeat.

[@DonnyWinter]

I appreciate you sharing this perspective. It can definitely be difficult in those types of situations. The whole "rinse and repeat" thing you end on is incredibly important. At some point during our lives as gay adults, we learn the importance of picking ourselves back up when we fall. It isn't always easy, but it DOES get easier. ❤

[@calvin.somerville]

THIS!!!

[@Retrosenescent]

This is an interesting idea but it seems pretty unrelatable to me. My local gay community seems extremely welcoming and inclusive. I wonder where people are experiencing discrimination based on their bodies. In hookup culture, sure, but in non-sexual environments? I’ve never seen that before. Maybe Denver is just very friendly compared to other places

[@newagehero9605]

Are you white if I may ask?

[@Beardaddy4u]

I’m trying to understand this gay loneliness, for me I’ve never felt it. I found my tribe years ago, I never really cared what others thoughts were of me. Also I mean why would we want toxic friends who tell us that we should look or act a certain way?

[@DonnyWinter]

I'm glad you found your tribe early on! I think part of the growing process for many is learning what constitutes a quality friendship. I know over the past 10 years, I've had to make a lot of alterations in that department.

[@newagehero9605]

I need names of these TikToks lol. I just recently went vegan literally for health reasons and spiritually. I used to try to lose weight to fit in and be dateable. I don’t think people realize how hard it can be for some to lose weight especially when you have to be consistent for so long.

[@DonnyWinter]

The one TikToker who responded to the other's handle is: @bigthighscienceguy. The person that was being responded to deleted their video and I can't find their TikTok acct now. You're right though, people absolutely don't get how difficult it is on the weight front. Hang in there, friend. ❤

[@FritzyFreak]

I agree a lot with this. I feel so? Idk what to be? I'm 19 but have been online and around the community for a long time. I remember when I was like 16 I told myself if I ate and gained weight I wouldn't be desirable. Im 5'11 or 6 foot idk and was like 120!!! I was super under weight and had a eating disorder or well got diagnosed with one because I thought I looked what I was supposed to. This super slim curvy twink that I was saving myself so I could be "hot" when I got out there. It really screws you up ya know? Even now on grinder I spend an hour+ shaving every single part of my body because people love "Smooth boys" which fair. Even before when I talked about bulking and gaining a lot of weight because I'm going to the gym a lot now I had people tell me "No, no. Why would you do that? Youre so cute and boyish its sexy" I know I should do whatever I want formyself because I am me. But at the same time it screws with your head because its like, oh I'm hot, oh I'm sexy, oh I'm desirable and people want me so maybe I should just stay this for them because people want me. I know thats bad and Im working on it and eating more. I just wanted to share my experience. Im still figuring myself out and where I belong, but its hard at times. Its weird because I really wanna get out there and meet people but damn, I feel like its hard finding people I relate to

[@AndresLopez-j6o]

There is a issue that many ignore, ok we must to fight against show off and selfish people but what about social media that promote all this behaviours? Its not the main reason why people became more selfish? Why Instagram or Facebook doesn't change their political rules to avoid those behaviours that are ruining the people s self esteem?

[@1aikane]

Wow, haven't seen you in a long time! Gay guys' tendency to want something new and different all the time will eventually leave one older and alone

[@DonnyWinter]

Omg hi! I haven't seen you comment in a long time! How have you been? :)

[@1aikane]

@@DonnyWinter rough patches. Big life changes

[@geno5169]

I was a skinny teenager with my first gay experience! Please judge me you all.! My experience was with my cousin then my one friend. ! My sexual experience with my cousin was pretty intense! I wasn’t really thinking I might be interested in guys ! Our relationship festered! So I tried dating this beautiful girl with amazing curves! Then I Went to our adult store looking for a guy! Eventually I met my wife then we got married! She also has these amazing curves! I see myself fantasizing about meeting a stranger like in a public restroom! I miss having that connection with a guy! I just couldn’t find any guy’s here where I live ! I still think about my past ! I workout ! Fast! I feel my wife isn’t sexually attracted and interested in me! I feel ugly. ! I feel that lonely inside!

[@janetmecham1059]

So I have an observation, but realize I am not well versed in the matter, so somebody please let me know if I’m off. From what I have noticed, it seems like gays have this higher standard they are being held to looks-wise by other gays, than straight men do. I know straight women can be picky about the outward appearance of their man, but it seems like gay men are especially picky about the appearance of a potential partner. And then I feel like lesbians are in many ways less picky about their potential partner’s appearance and are more focused on creating a safe space for each other where they can just be accepted for who each other is as a person. I feel like lesbians especially seek out that feeling of being in a safe space with each other. Thoughts?

[@michaelbracey5750]

I support your premise, but your argument needs more support.

[@Antony-g1p6d]

Donny your not🎉bad lookng you can find someone.

[@DonnyWinter]

I have and I appreciate you saying that ❤️

[@bg8753]

I appreciate the intention behind this video, but it misses the mark by overlooking basic human nature. There's a well-known fable where Romans complain about paying taxes in ancient Rome. Jesus asks them, "Whose face is on your coin?" They reply, "Caesar's." Jesus responds, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's." In relationships, people often fail to realize that success comes from giving others more of what they want and less of what they don't. For example, in texting between men and women, men want nudes; women generally don't want to send them. Women prefer to share pictures of their day-to-day life-like a sandwich or shoes-which men often don't care about. If men and women want better conversations, men should send photos of their everyday life to show they're thinking of their partner and include them in their world. And yes, occasionally throw in a nude. You need to balance what people want and don’t want. The fact is, men are drawn to beauty. You can argue about whether that's fair, but there’s no real substitute for it. If a man wants a six-pack, the only way to offset not having one is by being 6'3" or a millionaire. Simply offering "a good personality" won’t be enough. If you want to solve loneliness as a gay man, focus on building yourself up-give your partner more of what they desire and less of what they don’t.

[@HOXHOXHOX]

God, you're gorgeous.

[@DonnyWinter]

Thank you!

[@avarussurava9488]

❤

[@DonnyWinter]

♥️♥️

[@sarahfranco6802]

2:16

[@DonnyWinter]

??

[@jamesrobertson1138]

Calling peoples reasons for wanting fitness in their life "gross" is in itself problematic. You can't preach inclusiveness but then tell someone their fitness journey is not the right kind or it's not meeting your personal view of fitness. It does not matter why people want to be fit, just don't put them down because they didn't do it for reasons you find morality correct.

[@model1976]

oh give us a break. The fitness culture is morbid. Its gotten way out of hand.

[@DonnyWinter]

Literally not what I said at all. Watch the ENTIRE video this time, please. When fitness is WEAPONIZED against others, that's when it becomes a problem. I think the more concerning problematic issue is how some in our community gloss over body shaming and how our community is represented physically in media.

[@jamesrobertson1138]

@@DonnyWinter that's the thing, you're calling attraction and fitness a weapon, if your not someone's type internally or externally then that's ok. The same grace you would give to a woman when she makes the choice someone is not for them give that same to the community.

[@jamesrobertson1138]

@@model1976 it's not. Just like any other community or culture it has highs and lows and outliers. Some people are shallow in fitness and try to put others down. However that is a very small minority in fitness. The bigger issue are other people's insecurities with their own self image and attractions. Instead of addressing how they feel about them they take out on others or blame fitness for their issues. If a fit man wants another fit man then that's ok. If a none fit man wants a fit man then that's ok as well. Who we choose to be and lay with is our choice and for anyone to say that anyone needs to rethink their attraction to includ things they don't like is toxic insecurity and entitlement.

[@DonnyWinter]

@jamesrobertson1138 If you watch the portion of the video where I even utter the word "gross," I'm not even talking about fitness journeys. I'm talking about body image stereotypes in media. As someone who is also into fitness, it'd be idiotic of me to assert that "people on a fitness journey are bad." If you re-watch the video, I was discussing how my own fitness journey in college spiraled into self-destruction resulting from these stereotypes in media and how other gays spoke to me. I've known many gay men experience this pressure, hence why I discussed it. I feel there is a healthy way to pursue fitness without those pressures/insecurities.