How Good are Longboats? (AoE2)

For Vikings, the question is often floated: Longboat or War Galley? Do you stay tide to the galley line you may have mast in Feudal, or rock the boat by going with your unique unit? As you’d probably expect, it’s not as simple as one oar the other. We’ll look into water the factors to consider, so you can be shore to better navigate the decision in your next game.
CASTLE AGE
0:25 War Galley vs Longboat stats and cost
2:00 A note on micro and patrol
2:35 Comparison vs War Galley
3:55 vs Fire Ships
4:30 vs Demolition Ships
5:15 vs Rams
IMPERIAL AGE
6:05 Galleon vs Elite Longboat stats and cost
8:20 vs Fast Fire Ships
8:45 vs Heavy Demolition Ship & Docks
9:19 Miscellaneous cases: Cannon Galleons, Turtle Ships, Caravels
_______________________________________________________________
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition

[@kumisz2]

SotL didn't factor in the most important advantage of Longboats: they have proper sinking animations!

[@kooroshrostami27]

Caravel has the most satisfying sinking animation!

[@michaelandreipalon359]

How about the Fishing Ship's?

[@francocavecchia8246]

Im actually surprised that none of the sinking animations for galleys has been updated to the pre rendered "real time" destruction.

[@JackOpulski]

They kinda look like they deflate, but that beats most warships that just disintegrate

[@gdjeremyful]

Yes ,agreed ! The other ship sinking animation looks like they Michael Bayed...

[@ProperlyBasic11]

"Better navigate the decision," "let's drift to Imperial age," "watered down." Spirit of the Law isn't just a math expert.

[@SIGNOR-G]

*Spirit of the Pun*

[@johnmorrell3187]

Float the question, stay `tide` to your unique unit, or use the galleons you've `mast`. They come in hot and fast

[@calikillednoxgaming9606]

Don’t rock the boat

[@Kid_Ikaris]

Haha nice, didn't catch those 🪝

[@incarceros]

Per the subtitles, the end is "I'll sea you next time."

[@shaunak7689]

There are far too many water based puns in this video. SOTL really outdid his script writing this time around.

[@cacs2201]

There's never enough water based puns That's what you meant

[@kotapainting]

He didn't go overboard, no

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

We're drowning in puns.

[@forsakenquery]

I counted 18

[@mkaali]

And then we all laughed

[@Eustathe]

His arguments definitely hold water.

[@informitas0117]

I dunno, I got a sinking feeling.

[@javieryllanes5897]

Water you thinking

[@Kakariki73]

Hmm? Ohw sorry I was sunken in my own waves of thoughts

[@reddmann5562]

Ah I sea what you did there.

[@rubywest5166]

That’s unfortunate, usually you want boats to be the other way around

[@Progeusz]

Longboats are more pop efficient, that's why their elite upgrade is more expensive.

[@Kawabongahlive]

Good point. Much like corean War Wagons, even if they're expensive, once you reach a high enough numbers the pop amount to counter them doesn't exist and they stomp.

[@Cecilia-ky3uw]

I think its mainly their stacking and speed theyre amazing raiders ive tried fighting them myself

[@ThePeacemaker848]

I always thought the Longboat should have been available in Feudal age and have a transport capacity of like 3 or 4. So that vikings could better at shore raiding in the early game.

[@공략]

Would be a nice detail but viking is already strong in water map no reason to buff their navy

[@Kakariki73]

I think the transporting of units hold water in my opinion but another version could be adding firepower per added units like towers or perhaps speed like with rams

[@Southeast_Asian_Devil]

@@공략 Didn't you hear wht SOTL said? He said the longboats are trash!

[@BlackDiamond2718]

Longboats are only good if you mass them like archers.

[@Just_a-guy]

That was the idea but because some reasons they changed it. In alpha version they could garrison units (but probably not from feudal age)

[@PablitoAndCo]

SOTL: "Cannon galleons are primarily for shore bombardment and definitely not naval combat." Spanish cannon galleons: "That's cute."

[@MrlspPrt]

"Eso es muy mono".

[@KochiyaOcean]

Spanish cannon galleons are still not good enough for naval combat, due to the low fire rate. It can join naval battle aside of shore bombardment tasks, but go full galleons are much more cost effective if you're going to gain sea control

[@ScudForEver]

Spanish Galleons are probably the most unbalanced unit in the game. They're just too good compared to regular slow mo cannon galleons that they feel like a third unique unit for that civilization.

[@oom-3262]

@@KochiyaOcean I really do not think this applies to post imperial naval fights. If you mass enough of them, they even eat fire ships, which is outrageous btw.

[@KochiyaOcean]

@@oom-3262 Galleons can just do same thing with much lower cost. Cannon galleons are just so hard to mass except you're in a huge advantage

[@insanityinacan]

SotL really going ham with the nautical puns in this one. I *_sea_* what you did there

[@pierre-mariecaulliez6285]

*water* the odds he wouldn't ;7

[@TheHUEZOX]

He dive deep into the puns

[@MrlspPrt]

Weren't Punics a naval power?

[@SIGNOR-G]

@@MrlspPrt they were before becoming too *salty*

[@rovsea-3761]

One of the reasons you'd see longboats at a high level of play is because they train faster. Vikings can get taken off of water in feudal age by the opponent rushing in with fire galleys, so the thought of going up to castle then getting back onto water with longboats, who are better vs fire ships anyways, and create faster and thus require fewer docks to mass with, is quite appealing.

[@darkdill]

This. If you quickly mass a fleet of Longboats, you can stomp the enemy's navy in a decisive battle and kick them off the water. Even if they try to build Docks under a Castle, some micro will let you destroy the Docks and kill any Villagers who try to build. Then you just get to Cannon Galleons and bombard the shore. Most water games are pretty much decided in Castle Age, so the enemy can't really make a comeback if their navy is destroyed and their Docks are blown up. Only Portuguese can really make any sort of comeback thanks to their Feitorias.

[@chingamfong]

Another advantage for Longboat is they have real collapsing animation instead of war galley's sudden change to debris when it dies. Yes you can only see that when they dies but going out with styles is still some style points.

[@Tei]

*Vikings overview remastered incoming*

[@yizhenji5564]

+1

[@sauravtripathi4128]

He didn't overview Slavs!

[@taudvore259]

@@sauravtripathi4128 He did years ago, but he hasn’t done Sicilians yet.

[@sauravtripathi4128]

@@taudvore259 so that can be said about Vikings too!

[@sauravtripathi4128]

@@taudvore259 Sicilians are already done. Please check it.

[@chingamfong]

Deep dive on Longboat? Revisiting when to get wheelbarrow? Oh boy I smell a remastered Viking civ overview coming!

[@matthiasvandekerkhove3594]

Let's hope so!

[@robertwalsh6018]

Spirit you forgot the most important part of the Longboat, it looks cooler

[@xotl2780]

Goes without sailing.

[@tomaszsmol3920]

I just love how massed longboats shred buildings

[@-Raylight]

2:16 Lmao *"But just be prepared to **_sink_** quite a bit more gold and attention on to them"* I _sea_ what you did there. This is quite an _oar-deal_ indeed. I was _a-boat_ to say Galleon always wins, but not anymore xD

[@felixrr7381]

the madman did it again, watered down at 7:12

[@chingamfong]

"They certainly didn't *flounder* in this battle" "I wouldn't go *overboard* to say longboats are better" SotL really anchored down with water puns in this video.

[@UrsaMinor-69]

even at the beginning, "the question is often floated." there really are a ton of sea puns in this video

[@SirAroace]

I offen think Longboat should have transport capacity, like 5 slots maybe

[@nicholasnixon1311]

It absolutely should be able to transport units. Even if it's just villagers and berserks. Up to 10, and then elite is 20. Would be great for raiding

[@Christmas-Jacket]

This is giving me some strong aoe3 galleon vibes

[@SirAroace]

@@nicholasnixon1311 don't know about that, think its better to keep the number of passengers low and versatile, then large and specific.

[@nicholasnixon1311]

@@SirAroace yeah on second thought. I think 5 for regular an d 10 for elite would be good. Emphasizes early raiding. And maybe make it only infantry? Idk. Just a thought

[@3eightiesopinion524]

I honestly thought they did for a while when i first started playing!

[@Calebgoblin]

"But the question is often floated" okay, so I can see that this is going to be a long video

[@laservsvecchiette]

Another plus point for the longboat: a more beautiful death animation

[@SchlomoGoldbergstein]

IMAGINE if you could put those longboats into towers of castles.

[@ayhanfedai5013]

what about docks ? coastal castle

[@MrlspPrt]

Among the Hidden: my time has come...

[@beachmaster7011]

Would stop the counter from a couple of virgin fire ships as my chad longboats shoot from docks or castles

[@SIGNOR-G]

Your name is a thing of monstrous beauty

[@DutchAver]

MikeEmpires needs to get on this.

[@revolutioncipher4987]

I really hope he goes in depth in AOE4.

[@Wadusher]

@Mik H I can already tell from trailers and the like that there's loads of depth to go into 11.

[@5astelija75]

Interesting facts but then again, they do look cool so I keep using them

[@cataphracts123]

Interestingly historical as it looks like a better raider unit, sail up along a coast and up a river and attack buildings and units on land rather than prolonged sea engagements.

[@JanJanNik]

so each longboat has 3 storm trooper artillerists by default?

[@Dartaen]

Really waving the water puns in our faces this time.

[@Luisin88]

Viking longboats give the impression of a land raiding unit, should had tested this against more land based units, my guess is they work more similar to arrow towers.

[@ImTreyhan]

I agree, but it was addressed briefly the previous longboat video. Your impression is correct based on that video. Longboats should be preferred over galleys for attacking land units.

[@Davtwan]

I guess this is accurate to how the Vikings lost the water game as other civilizations improved their ship game in history. Still, it would be nice if Longboats had another edge like being able to carry infantry (but not villagers).

[@tupacshakur5868]

did they lost the water game? From what i know, they just left it and focused heavily on trading. Some places they used to raid surrendered their government and the vikings managed them from there on. So they just settled,no? At least thats what the 2 hours documentation i watched last weekend told me :s

[@bertthebard]

That's a very well written script, all the water/ship related puns are simply great. Well done!

[@tofuzilla6489]

SotL, I am so glad I found you. You renewed my love for AoE2. Keep up the great work!

[@ogluca]

All these ship and water puns are making me seasick

[@cybersteel8]

That's the best description I've seen yet. Bloody genius mate.

[@jamesinciardi5099]

By the ways SOTL, thanks for your "final thoughts" segment. That really helps to nail down the main ideas.

[@mateokoifman8412]

Love so much the outro theme appearing in the last videos

[@Fizzicles]

I love this channel. I don't even play AoE2 but I watch every single one of these videos for some reason. Thank you SotL

[@robdenini6972]

Damn the number of puns this man has made blows me out of the water.

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

Always happy to see an upload from Spirit Of The Law.

[@boarfaceswinejaw4516]

longships should honestly be unlocked in feudal rather than castle.

[@SIGNOR-G]

But with nerfed stats

[@Septimus_ii]

It would be interesting to make them available in dark age, to fit with the Vikings' strong naval prowess during that period of history. It would require a major rebalancing of the civ, though

[@SIGNOR-G]

@@Septimus_ii dark age? Your idea is interesting. How would you rework the civ?

[@Igor369]

Then they also could not have castle as requirment.

[@qwerty222999]

@@SIGNOR-G Maybe just rework the stats of the Longboat, making its stats increase with age, to the point of its current power.

[@superyounan1]

great videos, keep up the amazing work

[@benjaminpetry8487]

10 seconds in and "rock the boat" "float a question" and "navigate" lmao

[@kunsag1187]

Thank you for your analysis. Love it!

[@herman1francis]

I haven't played aoe2 for about 18 years. And yet i watch every single video on this channel

[@AEthelingg]

Give longboats transport capability! That would make them viable and more historically accurate

[@xotl2780]

When I played Erik the Red for the first time I built like fifteen longboats thinking they had transport ship capability. I didn't even check. I was so mad.

[@ZachGC1]

That answers my question I asked my mate yesterday! Thanks!!

[@pandaprewmaster325]

The real advantage of the longboat is its psychological effect on the enemy

[@Exualy]

Great Video, thanks SOTL

[@raynel1000]

Great job very well done video bro 👍👍

[@hansenhartono7426]

This is what I looking for since long time ago.

[@ExandShadow]

I love the amount of nautical puns in this video. Helps keep the points anchored.

[@mikefule330]

A "longboat" is a ship's boat used between around 1500 to the late 1700s: a rowing boat used for things like sending crew members ashore when the ship was anchored. The Vikings used "longships".

[@heckinmemes6430]

I never noticed that there are little splashes in the water for missed arrows/shots.

[@Leon.Stanic]

Yeah, nice attention to detail.

[@kyallokytty]

theyve been there since at least the conqueror's expansion iirc

[@MineAndRobin]

This is ridiculous. I haven't played AoE2 in years, and personally don't realy enjoy it much, yet I still find myself on this channel with every upload, and watch every video. I just love this kind of analysis type stuff I guess?

[@RaynmanPlays]

Which one is better for securing a neutral island for archery ranges?

[@dango470]

I see you are a man of T90 taste

[@16vSciroccoboi]

Ouch.

[@carlpult5235]

Finally I know why I won that Islands game with teuton H-Demos all those years ago ...

[@oivinf]

Viking longboats vs caravels are realistically a bit of a laughable match-up. Their first historical appearances are roughly 1000 years apart. Granted, IRL that caravel would use guns and not arrows too, as well as a billion other historical inaccuracies. Not to mention the viking longboat was never intended to raid other ships, but designed to raid towns

[@nicholase2868]

Yeah, I don't even know how they handled other ships. Did they avoid them? Then they go straight in and board them?

[@oivinf]

@@nicholase2868 Considering no one at the time/place had equally good ships as the vikings, I assume there was no piracy. And if there was, the pirates would be in the same situation, so I suppose a boarding might have taken place in such a case.

[@3eightiesopinion524]

@@oivinf id like tl see chinese ships fight viking ones from the same time period

[@billdewall6152]

The amount of water puns made my head spin.

[@domesday1535]

these are some good ideas you're floating

[@timhuester7721]

A way to make them more unique would be to give them the ability to slowly move on land. Historically the vikings carried or pushed their boats on logs to move their boats from one river to the next or to bypass fast currents or waterfalls. Maybe give them a different landform that can be engaged similarily to trebuchets, which is unable to attack. On some maps that could make for some very unique stratgies!

[@hybralisk]

I sea what you did there with all of those naval word plays. :)

[@volk551]

Sounds like the Vikings navy discount needs a buff over shipwright

[@volk551]

@@AndrewTheFrank still doesn't change the fact that shipwright is better than Viking Naval bonus in Imperial age because ships become 20% cheaper and build 35% faster with shipwright and the Vikings only get a Discount not the faster building ships

[@Boethion]

I think the thing about the vikings boni is the timing advantage, same with their free wheelbarrow and handcart. You arent better than other civilizations in the longrun, but you get your discounts/economy boni faster.

[@Shero1337]

@@volk551 but Vikings have the ability in Feudal AND they don't have to pay for it so they have a cheaper early/mid game, that mixed with their team bonus "Docks are 15% cheaper", and with very nice long boats to finish off the late game. Vikings aren't hurting at all, they are just a little different

[@volk551]

@@Shero1337 Yes but it doesn't matter if they get it earlier the generic unit is still cheaper The Galley ship line cost way less gold then the longship you ever saw in the video that the normal Galleon beats the elite longship without mirco

[@zekleinhammer]

Shipwright is very expensive

[@BubblewrapHighway]

I recently played some Islands and ruled the sea with longboats. Very fun to raid around and colonize the whole map one island at a time.

[@darkdill]

The key to Longboats is their creation time. With a few Docks producing them, they allow the Vikings to perform a knockout blow to the enemy's navy, kicking the other player off the water and preventing them from making a comeback. This can be far more cost-effective than a slow naval grind, even if the Longboat is more expensive. The Longboat's speed also plays a huge role in this. With it, you have control over when to take fights. You can either pursue the enemy when they try to retreat and they can't outrun you, or you can run away if the fight looks dicey and they won't be able to catch you without Demo Ships, which you can snipe with micro.

[@SMalicett]

I love that the final answer is that it depends

[@II-MEDIC-II]

Lol unrelated but relevant 1st thing I do when clicking on one of your casts is a thumbs 👍up haven't even watched it yet 🤣

[@gunar.kroeger]

can you make a video about what to expect from the Mega Random map generation?

[@SnowyTheGibbon]

The tighter pack on the Longboat formation is so you can sail more of them up rivers and maximise your roleplaying potential

[@dominicmartin8886]

@Spirit of the Law unrelated, but could you do a video overviewing pros and cons of spear line vs camel line both in dealing with cavalry and providing a large portion of your army? I've always been confused as to precisely how their attack bonuses, attack rate, HP, etc factor into their effectiveness

[@Norovo]

Other important longboat advantages - They look cool

[@vitorpombo8439]

My life is basically studying, eating, sleeping and waiting for SOTL'S videos to be uploaded.

[@twohandedswordsman852]

Longboats are basically 'anti sieges and anti buildings' ship.

[@salvadorseekatzrisquez2947]

On Minute 9:00 did you try spread formation for long boat. That helps avoid demolition boat damage

[@SM-bb4hx]

I predict an updated Viking review is coming.

[@JewelManDLN069]

He showers us with naval and boat puns right off the bat. 11

[@Andrew-ps6xe]

One important advantage that was not mentioned was their superior shoreline harassment. A massed archery unit on constant patrol along the enemy shoreline takes out many enemy villagers and buildings, and once the shoreline is sanitized, it is nearly impossible for your enemy to rebuild. Keeping your infantry close to shore also reliably baits the AI into wasting many units that cannot survive under your naval artillery cover.

[@Vk93hd]

Definitely my favourite water unit

[@boristolokonnikov5172]

If they ever make longboats carry 5 Vikings or 5 units (any units), but remove multiple projectiles from an empty ship, for a bit higher cost it would make for a unique unique unit

[@DatBrasss]

Nice

[@Irfanhill]

So.Many.Water.Puns. Loved them.

[@carrots1550]

That's all for this one. Thanks for watching, guys, and I'll sea you next time.

[@ShermTank7272]

Hey guys, Spirit of the Longboat here

[@leoSaunders]

2:24 jesus christ. aoe2 looks really clean IS THIS ONE OF THE BEST GAMES EVER OR IS THIS ONE OF THE BEST GAMES EVER

[@WikiHL]

They're the same design for AoM nordic ships and that's all I need

[@terras6418]

The Longboat really just feels like the water version of cavalry archers.

[@BrianSWG]

This is why age is so great and sometimes frustrating at the same time. Always need to factor in the random generation 🤣

[@Muenni]

I wonder if you could "pack up" the longboat like a trebuchet at the shore or in shallow water, then have it carried over land, if that would create interesting new situations.

[@leonardorivelorivelo9253]

There should be more unique ship units, imagine the ideas If every civ had 2-3 unique units

[@Kawabongahlive]

That would be a nightmare to balance. Which other unique unit would you give the goths without making them absolutely overpowered?

[@icarian553]

One thing you should've included when you talked about Shipwright. It's very expensive tech and you rarely see it in 1v1 games outside of Italians. Often it's not worth the cost.

[@CaciqueVanGuard]

Excellent analysis aside, I liked this video for the clever use of water based terms

[@jefffinkbonner9551]

Imagine if AoE2 actually tried to make real world sense and Viking Longboats where the only warship that could sail through shallows and swamps?

[@Roel93]

Thank the Lord you gave up on the 20 second intro! Didn't have to skip ahead. 😉

[@Lucidius134]

What about having gallies up front soaking shots and long boats in back packed tightly for micro or a 50/50 split against the same cost of gallies?

[@BlackDiamond2718]

The way we played game of thrones overhaul on aoe2 is that we stacked tons of longboats for massive attacks on castles but if demos are allowed then it sucks.

[@ciscos5785]

You could spread the longboats out more with the stance options vs demos

[@bameno6641]

Always longboad behause ist Looks so nice 😍😍

[@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor]

OK but we all know Longboats are the best because they look fucking gnarly.

[@MrJacobhobbs]

Any chance of some videos explaining how to make your own simple to do mods? Changing backgrounds, diy units or buildings, data mods etc.

[@sextonhardcastle8696]

I don’t upgrade my galleys from feudal, when you get heated shot it becomes a pretty strong unit when massed.

[@DoctorGarro]

The puns! I’m feeling a bit salty after that…

[@The_Room_2_Doggys_Revenge]

the amount of boat pun is almost as big as the number times Franks were #1

[@erwinciam1812]

The Next Video will be probably :" How Good are Berserks?" or " Berserk vs Champion". I want to know if it's worth it to fully upgrade Elite Berserk that are some of the most expensive unit to fully upgrade or should I just roll to my already quite good Champion?

[@Maolegeek]

Loving all these puns, in the video AND in the depths of the comment section

[@robertlewis6915]

The best reason to get these is how cool they look.