How Good Are Red Dragons and Black Dragons in Homm3?

As per your request :)
How good are Red Dragons and Black Dragons in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 Horn of the Abyss expansion (Homm3 HotA)? Let's find out!
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00:00 Rules & Red Dragons
07:42 Black Dragons
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The unit tested will face six trials:
- Castle Attack
- Battle vs. A Horde
- Battle vs. Elite
- Battle vs. Missile Units
- Battle vs. Army
- Castle Defense
They will score points from these, as well as from abilities in campaign map, construction chain costs and from the army costs. The army is determined by 20 weeks of growth. The tested units will be controlled by human, and tactics can be used.
I hope you enjoy the video :)
If you are a fan of Heroes 3 or play the game, check this video out. You learn new things about the game in terms of unit cost-effectiveness especially regarding Red Dragons and Black Dragons.
#heroesofmightandmagic3 #hornoftheabyss #heroes3

[@Alpostpone]

Yay for black dragons! Thanks for making this test. I have considered Heroes 3 BDs just a very slightly underwhelming, mostly because I instinctively compare them to the juggernaut that is Heroes 2 Black Dragon. Clearly I need to update my assumptions. I was surprised when BD not only outperformed RD by a massive margin, they also took down _both_ elites and the army, which I had considered a bridge too far. _And_ they beat Archangels on points. I'm impressed. I approve of awarding BD an additional point for spell immunity. In more high level play with Implosion, Armageddon and Berserk, that is one serious asset. Took me a while to see what was going on with ogre kiting. Fun stuff. Thanks for making these tests.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thank You! I was actually surprised by the BDs efficiency as well. And in the army battle the AI kind of offered a "free shot" to Behes. :)

[@lived1986]

How Go(o)d is Black Dragon? I was waiting for this video.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Glad to be of service :) Thanks for the comment.

[@Jutrzen]

I still think you can give WoG a try. With the creatures gaining experience modd you can get some crazy modifiers. Not only get the units att, def, dmg, health and speed, but also special abilities. Foe example: Vampires: no retaliation, attack twice (like Crusader), reduces defense by 50 points(!), Vampire Lords - reduces def and 20% to cast expert hypnotize, Magi and Arch Magi- reduces the cost of all spells by 4 points, Air Elementals - flying and autocast mass air shield, Storm Elementals - still fly, autocast mass protection from air, 20 resistance (golem type), Giants - gain lightning bolt (like Thunderbirds), 50 resistance (dwarf type), air immune, attack twice, +200% to red dragons, fear immune and no immunity to friendly spells, Titans - +200% to Black Dragons, 50 resistance (dwarf type), air immune, no distance or obstacle penalty and no immunity to friendly spells Nagas and Naga Queens - 5 retaliations and 30% to Death Blow (like Dread Knights), Gorgons - twice attack, cause fear, Mighty Gorgons - still cause fear, 40% Death Stare, Behemoths - 2 retalations, immune to blind and earth magic, causes fear, immune to fear and attacks twice, Ancient Behemoths - all of the above and reduce defense by 40 points, Griffins and Royal Griffins - 25% to block 60% dmg, Red Dragons - +250% dmg against Giants and Titans, immune to fear, throws fireball after attack, not immune to friendly spells, Black Dragons - +250% dmg against Giants and Titans, immune to fear, causes fear, 50% to cast dispel helpful spells, not immune to friendly spells Black Knights - no retaliations, + 100% dmg to Cavaliers, cast expert dispel helpful spells, Dread Knights - no retaliations, + 100% dmg to Cavaliers, 100% death blow, Angels - immune to fear, mind, water and armageddon, magic aura (like Unicorn) and 50 resistance (dwarf type), Archangels - immune to fear, mind, water and armageddon, 50 resistance (dwarf type), ressurects twice per battle, Faerie Dragons - fearless, mass magic mirror (enchanted for whole team), 25% to block attack, 50% to cast expert clone before attacking, Azure Dragons - throws ice bolt after attack, magic mirror and every 4th turn (starting with 2nd) summons ice elementals, not immune to friendly spells

[@Winnetou17]

Two points I need to raise: 1) Unfortunately, we, WoG fans are just in the minority. The amount of modifiers and the fact that they are so customizable also make it be too diverse. Some people might not play with the battle experience, while others might, but might play without rebalanced stats or without commanders so on and so forth. It's great for the player, but hard to make videos that attract a bigger audience. The people that don't know what WoG would also not understand what is happening and would think that WoG just gives OP powers. 2) You somehow missed multiple times a very important aspect in many XP bonuses: those that are immune to a class of spells, like Titans being immune to mind spells or black dragons to all spells, that they get to not be immune to beneficial spells. Black dragons in particular really were missing that (like not being able to benefit from resurrection, shield, haste, prayer etc). Getting access to these spells is a gigantic upgrade.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the very detailed suggestion. Sounds intriguing. I am going to finish this series at least in HotA but perhaps I will move to WoG :)

[@Canuovea]

Not entirely surprised by this. These things always spooked me.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Yea, e.g. that spell immunity can be really great in some cases :) Thanks for the comment.

[@Winnetou17]

I cannot believe that no black dragons died in the siege battle! Overall, the battles went VERY smooth, good job! Don't know if you got that good, or if you practiced before, but they were both well played, and fastly played. The downfall of the behemots with them being attacked indirectly PLUS removed of retaliation from the single dragon stacks was a thing of beauty!

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thank You! I have received a plenty of feedback from the previous episodes of this series which has helped to develop my tactics. And if I notice that I blundered something really bad, I will restart the battle. (Though that I have done from the beginning of the series) :)

[@chanceobrien]

Welp, how about green/golden next?

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the suggestion. Not quite next but that is added to To-Do list :)

[@Jutrzen]

@@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu Would like to see some defensive units like dwarfs or denroids. Keep up the good work!

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@Jutrzen Thank You! I will add both to To-Do list :)

[@RllXeron]

I wonder if U could reload this setup and fight again vs Elite and Army and what the results would be. Considering that after 8months and all those test fights You are a master tactician maybe U could squeeze out 1 or 2 points more. I think that black dragons are the best unit in the game at the end.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. I agree that doing these (and the feedback) has improved my skills. However, in these cases, I would need to save 6 Dragon vs. elite and 8 vs Army to get extra point. So, it is not that close :)

[@RllXeron]

@@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu its up to You :) . I can do it myself but it will take awhile with the setup. Im not that fast and Im busy all the time 😞 anyway. Dont make any video just post results here if you with. Anyway thanks. I wish u many many subs and likes.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@RllXeron Thank You! :)

[@leopanaite604]

So the enemy will always have the same cost as you for the army?

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

No, the enemy cost varies to make the test feasible to T1 as well as to T7 units. However, every unit faces the same trials :) Thanks for the comment

[@rhadooh]

Great tactical fights! I bet that if you would try again some of the fights you had with previous creatures you would get a totally different outcome. I doubt that Archangels are behind Black Dragons.

[@davehollis5816]

I'm actually not surprised. Magic immunity is just sooooo good, and the aoe attack as well. AAs are among the best, but so are BDs.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. I actually remade that Archangels vs. army and they got 2 additional points. That is taken into account. But I agree that perhaps not all of the battles have been played perfectly :) About which are better - that is tough. I just love AAs, and that resurrection ability is great. Then again Blacks' magic immunity is just as great. Perhaps a head to head match between them with different magic using scenarios could be a way to settle that.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@davehollis5816 Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.

[@Winnetou17]

You also have to realize that this tournament doesn't take into account how the unit will fare when you have spells. For example, the fact that Archangels have 18 speed and can give you the first spell cast (except vs those stupid -firebirds- phoenixes) holds 0 points. Archangel being buffed by shield, while black dragons arrogantly refuse it ? 0 points extra, even though in real life is a very measurable difference. Therefore, Archangels getting less points here doesn't surprise me. If you had buffing spells, the archangels would've done even better.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@Winnetou17 Thanks for the comment. Absolutely true. At the same time the enemy can cast Implosion etc. on the AAs. I guess that would even things out at least a bit :)

[@michu_pl_pl8722]

Red dragons suprised me , they are strong not like gingants , 40 points is really great for not ubgraded lvl 7 , and Black dragons as expected 52 points they are not much stronger than archangels again diffence 1point , so they are good like azures, bc their costs are much lower than azures have, they are best option to this day

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. Agreed on your analysis :)

[@gloweye]

You're using the worst possible unit composition ever for "vs missile". Those are the only three missile units that do full melee damage.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. Yea, perhaps it adds a bit of more challenge to it :) Then again the challenge is the same for everyone.

[@Raukodor]

Cant belive they have more points than archangels or ancient behemoths Maybe you played better this time?

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

That is a possibility as I am further in the series. However, I remade the Archangel battle vs army, and additional 2 points are included in the overall score. Then again, I did not receive that much improvenemt suggestions to Behemoth battles :) Thanks for the comment.

[@Raukodor]

@@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu where behemoths do better is against level 7-8 units, units with massive armor wich is reduced 80%. Or heroes with s high defense level Maybe only in those cases behemoths really shine, so dragons are better overall But archangels are better in every way, and can resurrect

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@Raukodor Agreed about Behes. And I think the AA ability to go fights with 0 casualties is great. Now in the hindsight, perhaps a battle with 0 casualties should award a bonus point. :)