HOW GOOD IS ALPHA IN cEDH? - cEDH SET REVIEW - THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST

Dylan and Cam talk about the cards from Alpha that impact cEDH
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[@Scottynsb765]

I can't wait for Beta and revised

[@bradleyemery]

Volcanic Island is gonna be real big for Blue Farm

[@dwrecked9329]

Beta is going to ruin the game! Keep magic like it is!

[@kabelpeterson9111]

@nathanielbryan4054 you forgot unlimited

[@zackfro]

Same

[@mk5257]

Fomo Beta. I ordered two booster Displays already

[@GoblinmasterYT]

It's so weird to only see 9 of the dual land cycle I hope this gets fixed in the next set /s

[@WA705]

When you started off saying that there was a new cycle of lands to talk about I assumed you were going to discuss the new monocolor cycle of lands, the basic lands. They're really great for nonred monocolor decks since you can use them to get around Blood Moon.

[@sebastianraducu7850]

they feel like worse snow lands, they cant cast archums astrolabe, but dont get hit by break the ice

[@paulnorrange9217]

@@sebastianraducu7850what are snow lands?

[@AtingsQuest]

​@@paulnorrange9217wait until the Ice Age set preview😂

[@Trogdorbad]

The real fun part of Time Walk is that the original playtest version's rules text read "Opponent loses next turn." Playtesters came back to Garfield like "yeah your game's pretty neat but this time walk card seems broken, it just makes you win the game on your second turn? why?" and he had to clarify it meant you take an extra turn

[@Trogdorbad]

i've just learned editing a comment removes the little heart thing the uploader can give very cool youtube

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

I’ll find it again, don’t worry

[@Angy_hamster]

this is done to prevent people from changing messages to something that would make the creator look bad@@Trogdorbad

[@DeathSpeach]

Also fun fact: Dark ritual is the card with the most typings in all of magic. Originally an interrupt, then a mana source, and finally an instant. Could you imagine if dark rit was still classified as mana source? You wouldn't be able to counter it because mana sources now don't use the stack since they are special actions

[@bensteinhauser784]

Best of luck with your recovery Cam! Try gargling salt water and drinking honey tea. Both salt and honey are antimicrobialso they should help with recovery. Also, I would say duals are worse than fetches by a wide margin (especially if shocks already exist). Duals give you acess to two colors. Fetches give you a choice between to colors, fuel your graveyard, are an at will sac trigger, deck thin, and shuffle your library.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Thank you, and love this point!

[@Lavorre]

AND they can get triomes!

[@Dracomandriuthus]

Honestly, "duals are the best lands" is an understandable mistake to make. Its an example of... Inexperience, I want to say. The more you get elbow deep in magic, the less you find duals to be as powerful as you think they are. The big thing behind original duals that people dont really think much about is that the types *only* matter because of the objectively better cards, the fetchlands.

[@s4ad0wpi]

​@@DracomandriuthusThey ARE the best lands that tap for mana! But yeah, Fetch Lands are significantly stronger than Duals

[@gazza4589]

You know you’re good content creators when you can do a set review of the oldest set and still be very entertaining. Lol 😂 Love your content and can’t wait to see what’s next!

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Thanks so much!

[@oateater5044]

I think they could talk about tomato sauce for an hour, and I would still be here for it.

[@RodrigoCML7]

Looking forward to this series, specially the Fallen Empires episode. Also glad to see you’re doing better Cam!

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

It's camtimus prime

[@therealax6]

Fun fact: Copy Artifact's ability to remain an enchantment, due to how it's worded, is part of the new artifact+enchantment's copiable values. (It's applied in layer 1, not layer 4.) That means that, if you create a copy of a Copy Artifact that is copying something else, the copy is _also_ an enchantment artifact.

[@WushuTaz]

This was much better than what I was expecting. Please make a series out this for each set with cEDH playable cards which I'm sure most sets have? I would love to see these original black border prints with old school foiling or even current full art foiling. Wizards gotta still have full art scans of the artwork used on these Alpha/Beta cards.

[@jurassicjuror]

ALWAYS RUN BASICS. I will die on this hill. Fantastic set review guys, very insightful 😂

[@RaijQuit]

I really wanna build a red blue deck but there's no dual land in those colors 😭

[@VitalSyntax]

My wife and I bought a Klug altered + Chris Rush signed black lotus this Feb after a year of saving as a reward for hitting our goals. Never want to sell it, its such a cool piece of gaming history and a delight to shuffle up for cube drafts. If I needed the money, I'd sell my car, computers, and many other things before my magic & pokemon cards.

[@DaxVerus]

Also earlier editions had sorceries that could only be cast at instant speed but they specify when you can cast them. They are still sorceries so they bypass counterspells that counter. They have since been erratad to be instants but big piece of mtg history

[@kinginthenorth1437]

Winter Orb (and Howling Mine) actually has functional errata because when re-writing the rules of Magic to be simpler and getting rid of the concept of continuous artifacts they wanted to keep the interaction with Icy Manipulator making the symmetrical effect into a asymmetrical effect. The 90s were an interesting time for Magic rules policies.

[@damo9961]

I bought a set of Revised off a second hand goods website here in New Zealand in 2012 - for just $500. Even then it was a steal. One of every Revised Dual. Then I started playing EDH.

[@ryanwaters6586]

Batches were used before the stack. Our casual games in 93 to 94 were just ' last effect first' and resolve in reverse order after all announcements were made and responses were done. Mana speed wasn't a thing, you floated mana into your mana pool and announced to cast spells. Unused mana is mana burn; 1 damage per unspent mana. Interrupts would be faster than an instant and acted almost like a split second effect. You could only counter an interrupt with another interrupt not instants or activated abilities (unless activated ability stated it is played as an interrupt). There were a few other differences. Tapping attackers, untapping them out of combat, etc. Banding...

[@tylerkelly3827]

Now I just wanna try no-banlist cedh. Great cast!

[@timtauber5557]

You forgot to mention the mysterious absence of volcanic island and circle of protection black from the alpha set. Also you should have mentioned that alpha red elemental blast was an instant instead of an interrupt which was an error. The hilarious text on goblin balloon brigade giving all goblins in play flying until end of turn for 1 red mana activation. Orcish oriflamme casting cost of (1)R mana at that time was quite good. It was changed in beta to (3)R. There were a few other anomalies with alpha that were “fixed” in beta and subsequent sets.

[@darkdragon4612]

Power creep with the dual lands is insane!!😂

[@beckpemberton4455]

Great vid as always. Still would have loved to hear you guys riff on Forcefield and Chaos Orb, though. I started playing MTG in 1993 with Beta and Chaos Orb was hands-down the most powerful card when it was still legal. Just stupid, really. But hey, looking forward to your thoughts on Arabian Nights and Antiquities!

[@josefranciscodasilvaeolive674]

Absolutely loved this discussion! Hysterical and quite informative! 😅

[@madazander]

Super fun idea boys. Love your content like always 🙂

[@MrRockguy84]

Also on winter orb, can use drafna to bounce it back to hand on opponents end step

[@E-Taguchi]

Amazing episode!!

[@mthlay15]

I had to open up this video again to say I just flashed the hand sign to a friend. Hahah that pentagram is so funny

[@arrivtuber]

Fast bond, 4 lands(mana), plus wheel is a classic. Discard the last card, draw a new 7 and drop more lands

[@seiofecco]

Looking forward to the preview for the Arabian Nights expansion!

[@andrewpalella9923]

My problem with moxen being legal is its more auto includes when brewing

[@rosshutchinson503]

Would love to see some Rule 0/no ban lost games after watching this - I think there are some interesting points I didn’t think of before, such as the mox and their impact on 4/5 color mana bases.

[@MrRockguy84]

U guys Def's were awesome on that janklord episode

[@justineells7518]

Are you guys gonna do a Dr. Who set review?

[@jaketurnip3665]

Mama vaults original formatting seems like it would put a trigger in your untap phase. Which would be even weirder.

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

Mama vaults are excruciating

[@juice17776]

I forget that Fastbond is banned sometimes, but then I think how good Tatyova would be if it wasn’t banned. Its a combo piece to draw your deck. With Crucible and a fetch you can get all your fetchable lands. I kinda wish it was unbanned though…

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

It would certainly be fun to try out at least

[@janmelantu7490]

Strip Mine locks would be incredibly common in cEDH. Lands decks are fairly common in Vintage Canadian Highlander. Other lines used in Canlander (I don’t follow Vintage much) are Druid Class (landfall: gain 1 life) and Tireless Provisioner (Treasure, Treasure, Food gives you 3 life back and is mana-neutral).

[@chrisbedrin3618]

My playgroup did a no-banlist cEDH experiment for a couple months. I built Tatyova Fastbond, the land you want to draw your deck is Oboro (and then play the rest of your lands as you draw them). I actually built the deck so I could hard cast OG Emrakul (and I was also running all the legendary clones so I could have an army of Emrakuls). It was really fun and I wouldn't say it was more inherently broken then some of the other things I can do legally in cEDH. Some cards didn't really have an impact in no-banlist cEDH, but others were too powerful even in that setting (Time Vault, Tinker) and had to be excluded pretty quickly.

[@grimgorlefort]

Dual land are the best land except command tower !!

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Command Tower definitely is the best land!

[@bulbasaurappreciator]

Not sure if this set has much of a place in the format but I understand you guys have to cover it for content.

[@TheGrifcannon22]

Holding my breath for the Homelands set review.

[@TheSocialKing13]

Orvar pilots punching the air right now over what y’all just called him 😂

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

lol i have a close friend who plays the deck, i should know what it is

[@hatithemoonseeker276]

I'm kind of new to your channel so I would like to ask if you have ever done a no ban list cEDH game or if have ever talked about doing one. I think it would be interesting to see how much the cards impact the course of the game.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Yes we have!

[@daltondavis767]

Dude sick they got Steve-o to come on the pod 😂

[@NewSchoolPOKERstrat]

“Pre-stack magic” kinda just used the stack. It wasn’t written into the rules but it was the way you would explain the old mtg rule “last in first out” to people. You’d tell them to visualize a stack w the effects going on them. It was a bit odd with batches also being part of the rules and it was never clear to me what the difference between an instant and an interrupt even was (technically you could not respond to an interupt w an instant but it rarely matters) that “interupt” class of cards was just total dead weight. Batches were unnecessary complication The stack was a bit like “milling” where it started out as part of the vocabulary of mtg players and ended up in the actual rules but it was sort of always implied by the rules

[@AlphaCitizen]

Mana Vault has always been that you must pay the 4 to untap it before the end of your upkeep I started playing back then

[@MK-13337]

I would argue the Urza cycle of lands (tolarian academy and gaea's cradle mostly) are better than the duals in our current day magic where color fixing is easy.

[@Blissful_Bash]

Letsssss gooooo boysss

[@liampierce8607]

Time vault combo can be stoped with a removal spell but thoracle can only be stopped with a counter spell so thoracle would probably still see play

[@justinnicolathyme]

Original phases and steps. Untap, Upkeep, Draw, Main Phase, Combat, End turn.

[@Thorg42]

"That's good. Moving on" -Cam

[@andrueurbane7361]

CEDH would be a much faster format with Time Vault's pre-alpha text. "Opponent loses next turn". Best player removal ever.

[@TripsAhoy]

Ludens or Halls??? I was always a fan of Ludens. Prob cause im old lol.

[@lostinthewoods2201]

Honestly, balance would do the lords work in my meta. The number of landfall decks is getting crazy and with armagedon being shunned they have undoo power

[@avall0nNn1992]

Play mono red and play Ruination, Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon and desvastate the Simic players.

[@lostinthewoods2201]

@@avall0nNn1992 yeah! Im turning my Krenko deck into a Zo Zu the punisher deck for this reason

[@sylviekling508]

Cam you are wonderful love you forever you guys are great

[@ingolf82]

interrupt = instant

[@jessebechard7512]

I think there's utility to Blue Elemental Blast being able to destroy Dockside so you can reanimate it in grixis.

[@Mox_Normandy]

I think Blue elemental blast is playable just because it destroys blood moon. That has kept it in a couple lists I have

[@barnsleyharriott9387]

I would listen to you guys talk about literally anything. Also ... where is Cam's t-shirt from?

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Banshee at Kings Island

[@barnsleyharriott9387]

Oh my. It has made my day thinking that you actually read and responded to my comment 😍 Also, a Podcast that I would love to hear ... how to get into cEDH, what decks are best to start with etc. just a thought 🙂

[@barnsleyharriott9387]

Second podcast idea ... should all your basic lands match or should they all be different. (There is only one correct answer.)

[@tobiman50]

I feel like y’all should do no ban cedh

[@willzang3000]

love yooz

[@AlphaCitizen]

Mono artifact just means you have to tap it to use it

[@TheGrifcannon22]

I thought of a totally janky way to break parity of Balance. Preferably have Grand Abolisher on board, cast Balance, hold priority and cast Ignorant Bliss and Teferi's Protection. All opponents are now bereft of hands and permanents.

[@p111SC]

Wow Dockside gives you a lot of mono.

[@bruhgh609]

10:58 😂

[@AlthalusKane]

Cam And Dylan logic: They have given me a black lotus, that means they love me and I must keep it. 🧐

[@GenCavox]

I can't believe you guys did a set review without Tyler. Poor guy

[@Medicinalmagic911]

10:34 of moxen were allowed. 4-5c would be a must. No cjance

[@DrOmnipotent]

To be fair, if you needed like a 25th-ish counterspell, blue elemental blast begins to approach something resembling playability. Sort of

[@mimiklureaegis9906]

Man, can’t wait for the erratas for most of these cards. These would be BUSTED in French.

[@gypsieking3280]

This episode tickled me

[@a7699aaa]

Life loss is still separated from damage.

[@dimirdavid2306]

where is my all-time favorite contract from below? oh right on the every banlist where it should be ....

[@Demon_of_Razgriz]

Man, this new land cycle is legit, too bad that Izzet is still stuck with Steam Vents. Hopefully Beta changes that. Also, first :)

[@lobstershoes9273]

No ban list Cedh

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

Post Malone, please send me a black lotus

[@NotALoli_]

No Savannah Lions?! it's the best white creature for one mana! /j

[@DeathSpeach]

If balance was unbanned a funny white combo you could do is cast it, hold priority and cast tifary's protection. All your stuff will become phased out and counts as not there, which will force your opponents to sac all creatures and lands to equalize down to your "board state" of no lands or creatures due to them being phased out.

[@jakestromberg9128]

Are you guys going to be at summit?

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Unfortunately not this year!

[@jakestromberg9128]

@@PlaytoWinMTG I guess I’ll just have to settle for the budget version of you guys Jake and Joel. Haha

[@tacobell2009]

I don't think sol ring and black lotus are nearly as close as Dylan thinks. Mana crypt is strictly better than sol ring, because it's free and the damage almost never matters, and black lotus is still leagues ahead of mana crypt.

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

But what about blacker lotus lol

[@kinginthenorth1437]

The damage from Mana Crypt might not matter but Sol RIng untaps and is better in every game that doesn't end immediately. Saying Mana Crypt is strictly better than Sol Ring is a logic leap that ignores a lot of card text and how games actually play out.

[@regisphilbin529]

Sounds like Chris Farley lol

[@Mavczers]

If you are playing interrupt like sacrifice then you have to play it as interrupt xD

[@NewSchoolPOKERstrat]

If you unbanned the moxen there would be only 5 color piles in cEdh I say leave em banned I’m struggling enough against good stuff w my Malcom Kediss list

[@janmelantu7490]

The original moxen require a points system imo (like Canadian and 7-point Highlander), so players can’t run all of them.

[@therealax6]

I wonder what would happen if they were unbanned, but with a special ruling that all decks can play N of them (for any N, let N = 1 or N = 5 or whatever) regardless of color identity. This would _still_ benefit higher-color decks, but the difference would be much smaller.

[@codybean8707]

Cam sounds like Steve-O

[@craigfernandez4433]

Y’all gonna do any type of set review on Dr who? Not a super powerful set, but I do think there are like 5 cards that are Cedh viable. And with doctors companion, I feel like there’s some combination of partners that’ll see play

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

We might, but it probably wouldn't be a full episode on it's one. But we do have a gameplay episode with Dr Who cards coming soon!

[@TheRealLachlan]

do a pod of your controversial and hot takes.

[@BraxtonMeyer]

it's funny that they think green is bad

[@MCTimemaster]

Just skipping over the best use for Ancestral....Killing your Thoracle opponent after they deck by forcing them to draw

[@lilyverilla4431]

I just noticed is that the bi flag on Dylan's wall? Fuckyeah queer peer!

[@Orissander]

Thank god P9 are banned, I was a vintage player and the games with them was really awful.

[@liampierce8607]

Cam sounds exactly the same truly I have no idea what ur talking about

[@nthnthms1212]

YOU BETTER PUT SOME RESPECT ON TIME TWISTER.