How good is the lucky reforge?

[@fligugigu_]

i like lucky because it tickles my brain to see bigger flashing number

[@miserablemosquito462]

Big flashy number go up Makes us happy

[@JustSansV]

Funi big boi number Me hepi

[@RafelJaggai]

Humanity is doomed. You can reforge all you want But u cant reforge a better life for yourself (Mad bc they know their lives are nothing) ⬇️

[@atlasthespy2707]

​@@RafelJaggai average human reaction when another human enjoys something

[@kayne_vk]

You are right...but why do you say it like this 😭😭😭

[@bluks384]

If Spazmatism has 28 defense, does that mean that he has 7 warding accesories equipped?

[@raidcrhonos]

The real questions being asked now

[@dieseldan2562]

It could also mean that it has armor, perhaps of the hallowed variety, as it drops hallowed bars. The hallowed hood provides 27 defense, that with a single hard accessory would fit the bill.

[@bean_man_]

if spaz starts minmaxing his defence we're DONE

[@tartarussauce2498]

​@@dieseldan2562or the almighty shackle

[@probablynotyou9286]

Except they're all step stools and that vine rope thing

[@Bismarck501]

OK! OK! Let's reforge these accessories, let's reforge these accessories with Movement Speed!

[@Meowlegend7]

Facts, Quick is the best.

[@Ilyasnow]

Egg people in my terraria video comments? More likely then you think.

[@bloorb0569]

Unironically movement speed is super good for certain calamity/infernum bosses I found.

[@zwaffless]

Let's not get it twisted, bro just locked in!!

[@steveverera9999]

I wish quick modified top speed, with boots it just modifies acceleration, and when you have any form of dodge it's useless. and even without dodge, Magiluminescence exists.

[@lucasramey6427]

"Wife said it was her or the dodge crit build." "God I miss her."

[@Plaguedocwhoneedsabreak]

“I may have a 60% chance to dodge bullets but not a 60% chance to dodge alimony, that’s a 100% hit rate.” - Grouse

[@FBI-sr2eg]

SwawS

[@christiankirby8092]

a cultured comment section I see.

[@shybandit521]

the answer being "functionally identical" is actually really fun, it means you can actually just pick which FEELS better.

[@Xenbiotic]

Or don't pick at all. Save yourself coin/time and just stick with whatever 4% crit/damage buff you get. Only real big thinking point would be getting armor pen or not and that is a case by case thing as well.

[@TheFireMouseYT]

Except that they are not. Here is the summary of my comment: 1. The math is screwed up in places 2. The damage calculation steps is lacking a citation 3. High attack speed/low damage weapons are not accounted for 4. Ichor and Besty's Wrath not accounted for.

[@coreflakes]

@@TheFireMouseYT 1. Too vague to comment on 2. The wiki page for Damage 3 + 4: 4:23 "This is just one example" defense is accounted for and including all sorts of situations would only make the video longer than it should

[@zekrua4006]

@@TheFireMouseYT "you didn't cite your calculation" this ain't PoE brother, this is real simple shit. you could do this in your head if you wanted

[@john_titor1]

@@TheFireMouseYT I think you missed the point... firstly, the damage calc steps are literally how the game calculates the damage... it's straight from the official wiki, or you could just try it yourself to see if it matches, or read the game's code. Secondly, the high attack speed low damage scenario is literally just one specific scenario, and in this case, it's pretty easy to see that it would look like a bellcurve, where menacing outperforms in most cases, but on either fringe, lucky pulls ahead again. Finally, the last point is the same as the other point, such as enemy with zero defense, or while using armor pen... it helps lucky pull ahead more. This was said in the video.

[@ME0WMERE]

I never thought of treating health like an expendable damage increaser. I should do a melee-only (or even just melee-focused) run.

[@Tempestissiman]

can confirm. i did a true melee run and the entire strategy is managing your health like that. it's pretty fun

[@shybandit521]

im doin a spear only run of calamity and yeah im half dead all the time just to make sure im still doing damage

[@freyamiles3718]

I've played enough magic to be aware

[@Greywander87]

TBH this applies to a lot of other games as well. In Dark Souls and Elden Ring, you'll get marginal damage increases from pumping up your damage stats early on. Even end game you might roughly double your damage with a maxed out damage stat. That's not insignificant, but by pumping up your HP stat instead you can get 4 or 5 times the HP. And the longer you survive, the more damage you'll be able to deal. In theory, surviving 4x as long should mean doing 4x as much damage. Now, it's different in Souls games compared to Terraria. Terraria lets you kill faster because you can face tank and spam attacks, while in Souls games face tanking isn't really viable, but just living longer gives you more chances to attack.

[@nkosiezikalala5267]

Solar Armor literally incentivizes you to take damage and kiss the boss😂

[@Kepples]

The part at the end about essentially using your health to be more aggressive and deal more damage in a fight is why I like the Magic Cuffs/Celestial Cuffs so much when playing as mage. It's fun to spend your health in exchange for mana without needing to use mana potions or waiting a second to regenerate mana (At least in Pre-Hardmode). Anyways this was a great analysis!

[@Meowlegend7]

I never liked mana potions and preferred mana regen or magic/celestial cuffs, so I can agree.

[@Hexagonaldonut]

This is especially relevant considering mana potions actively decrease your DPS!

[@Ptoki1]

i just stack up on mana regen potions and i have mana regen band, the regen is pretty goddamn good

[@Hexagonaldonut]

@@Ptoki1 Yeah, Mana Regen is insanely strong. You stop firing for a second and your Mana is already half-restored.

[@danielstar9458]

Idn I always have at least 300 mana potions on me at all times when I play mage. The wizard in my world is probably as rich as the goblin in a casual person's word.

[@Jaybug58]

I'm just the kind of person who takes menacing, warding, or lucky, whichever pops up first.

[@juxoq]

This guy has no enemies

[@randomstudios7758]

This guy has no enemies

[@gluessb]

He just like me fr

[@ChannelMiner]

screw the goblin tinkerer, he aint getting a cent from me if i already have one of these reforged

[@Flont40]

Welcome to the world of freedom. How does it feel?

[@Meowlegend7]

Nah you guys are all wrong, Quick is the best

[@nathanflinchum1153]

Actually I do use quick, for a builder set that is

[@Meowlegend7]

@@nathanflinchum1153 that actually sounds kinda good, I always put warding on the builder set but I wonder how Quick does with it.

[@finnishamerican]

if move more fast than boss boss no hit = no need defense? Checkmate sorbet cafe

[@ChannelMiner]

@@finnishamerican me running away from moon lord

[@NoobSharkey]

I think we all sleeping on arcane fr

[@Amia_the_Smol]

Mans out here utterly destroying over a decade of misconceptions from the community about how the game works.

[@bloorb0569]

@@Meowlegend7 You're just projecting honestly they literally said that maximising defense isn't as fun in the last video which implies you should just play however you like but be aware that statistically it's good to go into defense sometimes.

[@kozolith2121]

@@Meowlegend7 That's just your perception of it. Objectively speaking this is entirely just math. He never tells you to NOT go for lucky or menacing. Just tells you what the math says is better.

[@person_man9882]

@@Meowlegend7​​⁠​⁠11:38 “it’s PERFECTLY FINE to use menacing and lucky reforges”

[@ihavenoidea598]

@@Meowlegend7 Uuh, nah. The video just explains the game's mechanics... Although the game itself being designed in a way that favours grindy boring playthroughs kinda sucks lol.

[@Gnurklesquimp2]

​@Meowlegend7 that's a very typical and ironic response to people who enjoy doing things this way. The creator even pointed out they don't usually tank cause its not their personal taste, and these videos are actually combating the common "max balanced dmg and crit or bad" narrative. So yeah, on 3 different levels, the way you took it is very misplaced. If you still can't change your perception you might have a complex

[@grottosstuff]

That’s it I’m going full Arcane build +140 Mana is the future

[@Meowlegend7]

Nah, dont go full arcane. 2 arcane accessories would be enough combined with your magic armor and accessory.

[@noahtekulve2684]

@@Meowlegend7 I'll do what I want!!

[@jackflican6037]

you should consider using accesories that increase your max mana natrually, like mana regeneration band, and especially celestial cuffs, use those with accesories that reduces mana usage for even more of an ability to keep fireing before you need to use mana potions or wait for mana to regenerate

[@Yetiisbored]

​@@Meowlegend7says the person who said arcane was good

[@Meowlegend7]

@@Yetiisbored what does this has to do with anything?

[@Shyguymask]

I remember that time I got into a big argument about Menacing Vs. Lucky, and a concerning amount of people kept suggesting that Lucky is better just because reaching 100% crit chance will "double" your DPS. I know almost nothing about math and even I was embarrassed at those arguments.

[@Meowlegend7]

Correct me if I am wrong or understanding you wrong, but I feel like you were too agressive in those arguments. I really don't think people thinking "%100 crit chance doubles your DPS" is this or was that serious.

[@Shyguymask]

@@Meowlegend7 Believe me when I say a lot of those people genuinely believed a magic spell would happen upon reaching 100% crit chance. Some of them would basically dismiss anything I say and just go "but 100% crit chance". And also, where and when was I too aggressive in those arguments?

[@yoshimaste6588]

"crits double your damage so 100% crit is double damage"

[@Shyguymask]

@@yoshimaste6588 I said DPS, not raw damage per hit.

[@lordderppington4694]

Mmmm always fun. So, crit does double damage, so if you have 100 damage, 24% of the time you get 100 damage, or...... you average out 24 damage a hit. Which is yup, the same as menacing. Math is fun.

[@ChiefLogan_]

I did a deep dive into the damage calculations a couple years ago and found the method to optimise your damage output was to always have your damage boosts higher than your crit chance for the exact amount needed to compensaye for defense. As an example, let's say you have a weapon that deals 100 damage and you're fighting a boss with 20 defense. To compensate for the defense of the boss, you'd need a 10% damage boost (only half of enemy defense is counted in calculations). After this boost you want to split your damage and crit 50/50, so if you have 60% increased damage, you'd want to have 50% crit. Instead if you have a weapon that deals 50 damage and are fighting a boss with 40 defense, you'd want your damage to be exactly 40% higher than your crit chance. As is mentioned in the video though, most bosses don't have just one solid amount of defense, and the actual difference in kill times will be minimal in all but the extreme edge cases.

[@jackflican6037]

sounds interesting, did you do the math on how much armor penetration would affect this too? on avreage how much of a diffence would a stinger necklace have on this in a boss fight? what about outside of boss fights? is the stinger necklace worth considering in the late game?

[@ChiefLogan_]

@@jackflican6037 Armor penetration essentially just subtracts that amount from the enemies defense, so in the case of a stinger necklace which has 5 armor penetration, an enemy with 10 defense would be treated as having 5. If works out to a +2.5 flat damage bonus so I wouldn't really suggest using it over other late game options that boost damage or crit percents. There are a few edge cases where it may make sense, such as the chain gun which has low (31) base damage - but insanely high speed.

[@john_titor1]

@@jackflican6037 The math is extremely straight forward in that regard... you can do it yourself. Like the comment said, every point in defense the enemy has (or technically, rather 2 points), you want to make up first in menacing or any other +damage%. Then have an even split of crit and damage from there. With armor penetration, just subtract it from how much defense the enemy has. If we use their example too, 100 damage on a boss with 20 defense, then if you use a stinger necklace that has 5 armor pen, just subtract 5 from the 20. 15 defense, and enemies reduce damage by half of their defense. Now you just need 7.5 damage before you start doing a 50/50 split between damage and crit. Since this example uses a weapon with base 100, you need 7.5% damage before you start to split 50/50. This basically means the stinger necklace is not really worth it late game, because most weapons have a base damage high enough to where adding an extra 2.5 damage per hit will always be worse than just slotting in another damage or crit chance accessory. If you are playing modded, you will have to do the math yourself. Basically, think of armor penetration as adding a flat amount of damage to your attacks, half the amount of penetration. This is only not true in the case that they have less armor than you have penetration (you get them to 0 defense), or in the case where they have so much armor that your armor penetration does not reduce it enough for your weapon to deal more than 1 damage. For example, technically speaking, if you have a modded late game weapon with a really low base damage, say 10 damage per hit, but hits extremely fast, it will become better to use armor penetration if that armor penetration will reduce their defense to less than 20. But since many modded late game enemies tend to have more than 20-30 defense, you will probably need something with more than 5 penetration a stinger necklace provides before you even see a difference. This is still true of menacing though but since every point of damage is worth 2 points of defense on an enemy, with +50% damage from say menacing or something, 15 damage will be able to break through

[@jackflican6037]

@@john_titor1 yeah, that is true, i was gonna bring up the honeyed buff when hit, but i realised that an accesory that provides extra defense would somewhat close that gap, anch shield providing 4 defense reducing damage taken on hit by 2 in normal, 3 in expert and 4 in master, defensively there still is an argument for the stinger necklace, but unless you are using a really low damage weapon, or just need anything you can get for your last slot, stinger necklace is problably not gonna be the best option late game, tho with the lightning aura rod+monk/shinoby armor set, maybe it could be worth it? Depending on what minion summon you use it may be better, the dagger summon could scale somewhat well with it due to how it ignores armor, same thing with lightning aura, using the special armor sets for the lighning aura would also allow it to crit along with attacking faster, making it more viable

[@jackflican6037]

@@john_titor1 in a majority of late game cases, stinger necklase does remain a rather weak and outdated option tho, just like you said

[@reginaldmeta2762]

I think the Calamity mod, and maybe other bullet hell-style games, may have caused people to think of Terraria bosses as a challenge to "gamer skills" and maneuvering around the boss's attacks instead of an obstacle in a sandbox that you can overcome through intelligent use of the world around you and the resources it gives. Obviously both methods will get you through the game, and you can't really have one without the other, but the creative puzzle-solving side of Terraria seems to have gotten kind of lost in favor of optimizing theoretical DPS and trying to bumrush the next boss. Or maybe I'm just not watching enough Terraria videos. Idk

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

You can really see that in most gameplay showcases. I think aside from frame 1 kills, the only times I've seen more tools used aside from possibly heart statues (if that) in an arena was this femboy right here

[@circclegd6710]

Developers' fault for making the game feel you like an utter badass imo

[@noahtekulve2684]

Nah, you're probably watching *too many* Terraria videos. That's where the hyper-optimized no-hit bossrushers live, most people don't play like this I believe. Sorbet kinda acknowledges this when he provides example builds that a "more casual" player would be using without nearly as many obscure buffs.

[@jackpullen]

in calamity warding is buffed just making it straight up miles better than menacing or lucky since it scales over the course of the game. by the time you've killed wall of flesh your getting 5 defense instead of 4 and by the time you've beat the DOG your at +7 per accessory which is insane. Combined with other defensive powerhouses in the calamity mod its worth it

[@sorbetcafe]

@@undeniablySomeGuy if you don't show optimized builds, it will be disregarded by experienced players for not being applicable to how they play. If you don't show unoptimized builds, it'll be disregarded by casual players for not being applicable to how they play. I never use that many damage bonuses unless I'm specifically showing how something behaves with optimized damage bonuses.

[@dry90125]

You know I really do appreciate channels like these that split terraria wide open like this. It’s such an interesting game and its meta is so poorly understood and highly variable that channels like these that break apart misconceptions and test the untested are so fascinating. Keep doing what your doing, champion

[@nimajneb8897]

I think Ichor is worth mentioning. It decreases armor by 15, so essentially a 7 damage increase, and is easily accessible on melee and summoner (although summoner can't crit omegalul) with flasks and still relatively easy with golden shower and ichor ammo (eg. hit with an ichor bullet then switch to bow with holy arrows). Also Betsy Wrath with it's whopping 40 armor penetration. I don't know the exact math and don't have the time to do it rn, but I imagine that these would make a difference, particularly with melee's ease of access to it.

[@sorbetcafe]

ichor would help reduce the amount that defense hurts crit builds, yeah

[@theirishviking9278]

it would help but i wouldn't see it being enough of a change to make it a stand out

[@TheFireMouseYT]

Don't forget about Besty's Wrath, y'all

[@xenopsychologist4943]

you are going to use two extra weapons, repeatedly, just for a little bit more damage?

[@jackflican6037]

@@xenopsychologist4943 i would, it can be alot of fun to stack debuffs on a target, and if you have a teammate, the defense lowering effect of ichor can be worth alot, secondary weapon can inflict ichor, primary weapon can use whatever ammo type that does the most damage, maybe venom arrows for your bow, ichor bullets for your gun, i would still do it even if i found out that it has a lower dps, because it is just fun sometimes

[@Gamer__Panda]

Finally, another like-minded person seeing health as a resource. I gained this mentality from playing Slay The Spire mostly, but it applies in a lot of games. These are awesome videos friend

[@RachelJade70]

I'm absolutely not a min/max Terraria player, and the only utility this video gave was that I shouldn't reforge away from lucky (always thought straight damage was way better). But I love nerdy, mathy deep dives. A+ vid :D

[@camogamere1571]

I made a fun desmos sheet once to help optomize my lucky to menacing ratio, and I can firmly state that it's a clear case of the best setup is entirely dependant on your gear and enemy, maybe ill re-build it better one day.

[@rajanslee]

Between lucky and menacing I always use whichever reforge I get first from the tinkerer to save money, I’m glad to be vindicated here lol

[@LeDoctorBones]

Huh, I've always thought crits were calculated before enemy defense and, therefore, scaled particularly well with low-damage weapons or high defense enemies. But I can see now, that the 2 damage crits on DG suggests it has never been this way. Combined with the fact I thought damage reduction applied before defense, I've really learned a bunch in only two black screens. (Has it always been this way? I have convinced myself I heard something about damage reduction proccing before defense back in 1.1 or 1.2.)

[@yoshimaste6588]

i can only speak about 1.2 and above but if you noticed, hits deal a minimum of 1 dmg and crits deal a minimum of 2 as seen by people killing dungeon guardians. thats kinda how i deduced crits come after damage reduction effects

[@LeDoctorBones]

@@yoshimaste6588 Yeah, that is what I mentioned the 2 damage crits on DG.

[@yoshimaste6588]

@@LeDoctorBones mb, i skimmed past that part

[@tzorfireis425]

I always thought that DG didn’t really indicate either way since it’s defence is so insanely high (9999 or 9000 iirc) that there’s just nothing that can actually get past that damage threshold even with crits

[@LeDoctorBones]

@@tzorfireis425 Crits get 2 damage instead of 1 on DG, which indicates that crits trigger after defense. Otherwise, you would deal 1 damage since DG's defense is so high that crits wouldn't matter.

[@BlessedJecka]

thank you dancepad terraria/hollow knight/lovecraft femboy

[@Summonerterrarian]

Wait he is femboy/gay

[@oashky]

I felt my defense drop by 90 when I was watching that video. Don’t EVER think you’re safe when you have a blind spot

[@BlessedJecka]

@@Summonerterrarian kzbin.infoIV1gIEIA3s0?si=pFFE48u4zAsQcmxG

[@OnlyTAS]

​@@Summonerterrarianhe is a femboy, proud one

[@Summonerterrarian]

​@@OnlyTAS soo my sus on him was right

[@alexskv4644]

I really liked this breakdown. I did not know how little difference there was with lucky and menacing 👍

[@TwilightKnight1001]

What i learned in this video: 1) My comment was used in a video (poggers) 2) I was wrong with my understanding of Lucky/Menacing. I was under the impression Lucky was MUCH better than Menacing (at least early game), thank you for the very informative video Sir Sorbet o7

[@Sunnywastakentoo]

These are lovely videos. You’re a great presenter and editor. Much love.

[@hyperfreeze2714]

the health is a resource at the end really changed my perception of playing. Saving it up as a failsafe for bad luck or a skill issue or expending it for higher DPS is something i never thought about

[@Sushou]

Debunking long-standing myths is very much appreciated, always love your vids. I do wonder how good the melee swing speed reforges are when compared to these, especially on the weapons that have per-hit interactions.

[@ammonbergevin5302]

I like this, now I can tell my friends that lucky and menacing are almost neck in neck, so they don't need to reforge for everything menacing

[@damnthisisabadname]

incase anyone is wondering why there is no reforge damage boost at 2:21, this is because the damage boost from the reforge is multiplicative (with both critical strike chance and dps) and not additive with other sources of damage bonuses

[@damnthisisabadname]

he ended up mentioning this later, i wasnt that far in

[@olixx1213]

Crit chance from the reforge is additive

[@olixx1213]

Crit chance from the reforge is additive

[@Dario__]

Welcome to "that reforge you sometimes take when it apears when your reforging everything for a little boost for your dps". Thanks for you awesome content.

[@kingcloudian2997]

After so many years, we finally have a video explaining crit and %dmg

[@SkyanUltra]

i dont think that when people say “dont get hit” they dont mean it literally and just mean “dont die” but yeah i do agree and as much as i prefer menacing anyways for having fun and having that little bit of extra damage i did learn that lucky actually scales nicely from this video, will definitely be experimenting with it a little more in setups (that arent summoner LOL)

[@See_eyeSSSSS]

Lucky lucky horseshoe😊

[@julienbronsch5039]

Lucky lucky coin😊

[@chriszg2332]

Deadly deadly sphere staff

[@julienbronsch5039]

@@chriszg2332 man why cant we have the broken broken hero sword

[@julienbronsch5039]

Does demonic demon bow count?

[@liviawannavibe]

Arcane Arcane Flower!!!!

[@TheChainOfGame]

I am loving these nerdy mathy deep dives into the relative qualities of terraria’s damage scaling! Great work!

[@95DreadLord]

I like warding because a dead player does 0 damage

[@Hellwolf36]

I often found critical strike increasers depend on your weapons and loadouts. Often enough, going beyond 50% is pointless unless you are going all out 100% or very close (90%+). I prefer either +4 Defense, Melee Speed or Damage depending on my build.

[@angeloid_]

bro is PASSIONATE about his internet arguments holy moly for funsies sake, you should show how defense stacks up against menacing in Calamity >3

[@WomanSlayer69420]

On the topic of getting hit, that is one very hot, but very based take. It's why I don't do no hits on bosses unless it does ridiculous damage that can't even be offset by going defensive (such as day eol) a modded boss that has a specific reward for no hits, or has like 80 debuffs that punish you by gimping your damage if you do get hit. Personally I run a damaging build with hallowed dodge and a tank build simultaneously (since 1.4.4 lets you swap loadouts at the push of a button) If I proc my dodge I just go in with the tank build until my dodge comes back up. The damage build shaves a few seconds off the fight and the tank build ensures my survival.

[@Stockfeesh-xp5jn]

You greatly underestimate the power of the brisk reforge. I can’t believe you didn’t mention it.

[@Redddragon]

He clearly forgot to consider what happens if I reforge all my weapons to Shameful!

[@Meowlegend7]

Do you guys know how strong Zenith gets when it has the "broken" reforge? Its pure chaos.

[@Palemis]

The copper shortsword becomes sooo good when it has the "arcane" reforge

[@xenopsychologist4943]

fishing for another reforge analysis video, eh?

[@PencilNova]

​@@Meowlegend7its so broken bro

[@rod0fdiscord]

playing with damage optimization in mind simply is more fun for me, and that's exactly what i said after watching the defense video when one of my friends sent it to me

[@Brandon-rt9ei]

This was my exact thought, I understand the point of going full warding but IMO it makes terraria less fun. You just stand there and holding down your mouse as you watch the boss do nothing to you and you just kill it after 5 mins. There’s no tension there’s no thrill or skill building. You don’t learn anything besides I can just body a boss and say I beat it.

[@9y404]

@@Brandon-rt9ei sorbet said basically that in the warding video, doesn't really apply in master or legendary mode tho

[@MagicianStevey]

3:22 Is that spearmaster from hit indie game rain world holy flip

[@TRak598]

Not many mouthless, fat-porcupine-tailed purple creatures out there.

[@spicywings4614]

The end part where about not taking damage is even funnier when you take into account magic cuffs exist, something that literally feeds you more 'ammo' when you take damage. Also, the star cloak(or bee cloak; and veil, by extension) actually ADDS potential damage because you were hit. Granted, it is very minimal and unreliable, but it is non-0 and that matters.

[@jackflican6037]

finally someone mentioned the healt bas as a resource bar, this is one of the best explanations i have ever seen of why the amount of health left is not always an indication of skill, or lack there of. Speaking of health, can you analyse ways to make defensive builds that don't use warding? like using worm scarf, anch shield and other accesories to make up for a low defense on armor sets, while still using reforges that specialise in damage? it could be interesting to compare that to the same thing with a wading setup

[@sorbetcafe]

It doesn't make sense to use offensive reforges and defensive accessories, you'd use warding with offensive accessories. Just, inherently, the number values don't make sense, it takes 4 menacing reforges to equal one emblem and 2 warding reforges to equal one berserker's glove

[@jackflican6037]

@@sorbetcafe yeah, tho i tend to use the worm scarf and frozen shield, sometimes using those with class emblem and all menacing prefixes, i am just kinda woundering if this is the best way to go about it, or if it may fit my playstyle more if i commit to either offense or defense, either way, i should problably start considering to use lucky a bit more, unless it would fit my playstyle more to use focus on being tanky, this becomes even more complicated when i play as a mage because i also have to consider if i want archane prefix so that i can spend less time being distracted by my mana bar and more time avoiding hits that are easy to evade

[@HiroTeaShi]

Very thorough consideration of builds and a solid case.

[@NekuZX]

"noticeably worse" *literally one (1) singular point of differece*

[@cinnamoncat8950]

also epic femboy: *only* a 7% increase

[@TRak598]

​@@cinnamoncat8950Agree. 7% may not be much versus surviving longer with Defense (I'm still skeptical about soaking hits with Ranged and Mage builds, but being tanky with Melee and Summoner does indeed go a long way)... ...But if you are minmaxing your DMG coef by distributing Menacing and Lucky reforges, 7% is huge. You are not letting go of anything for it (other than your money, that is). You just deal more damage.

[@sorbetcafe]

The "only 7%" part was moreso speaking about how it was not reaching a 28% bonus because it's still additive with other crit boosts. As in, "it's only 7%, not 17%." There were people that were under the mistaken impression that lucky would achieve that, because it scales multiplicatively with damage. and the "noticeably worse" part was like that because I wanted to find a number that kept menacing at 84 while showing lucky being disproportionately affected by defense, and felt that was more important than just showing lucky having a lower number. It's more about showing the ignored factors that make lucky worse than going "this is where lucky is worse." The example where it is noticeably worse was later in the video.

[@cinnamoncat8950]

@@sorbetcafe makes sense, i didnt remember the context of when you said only 7% so i wasnt trying to be serious about it, hence "epic femboy". love the vids, always love seeing the kind of analysis that break long running myths and confusion.

[@sufferingincorporatedtm1781]

the bit about low health enemies is why i use lucky personally. i really like events and exploring, so more frequently one-shotting enemies is very fun and helpful. also, protip, having an all lucky build actually increases your luck irl. this allows you to dodge better and get better drops, as well as activate brain of confusion/master ninja gear more :)

[@gerferies]

Man you really did put my English hearing skills to the test. First time hearing a person with rhothacism speak for this long. Great video! And great exercise for me, both in maths and speaking.

[@leoperd3487]

Very good video (especially with the Monster Hunter cameo!), but you seem to have failed to mention that having a crit chance above 100 is super funny

[@Lemony123]

Holy fudge, I'm early to a Sorbet's Upload

[@minireg8802]

Haven't seen the video yet, but still grateful for the video, hope your channel still grows, great content

[@seedlesswatermelon566]

Bad video clearly ignores the best modifier: arcane

[@Meowlegend7]

Quick*

[@tembieg5434]

I am unsure as to what mod adds this feature (It's probably Calamity but I couldn't find it on the wiki) but the lucky modifier also gives a 0.05% increase in luck which has a multiplicity of effects on the game. Lucky is something I mainly use for my fishing loudout so I can make the most of the added luck. A lucky summoner build sounds completely useless but its good for when I'm trying to fish and don't wanna deal with enemies and maximize my luck. It usually becomes a bit redundant though once I get into the later hardmode and can use potions and candles to drastically reduce enemy spawns when fishing. It's also something I use on nondamage oriented accessories like the greedy ring for when I'm trying to farm money and item drops.

[@dreamtraveler6135]

I have to say a couple of things that aren't at all a reason to go for lucky but I found it useful on my Legendary playthrough 1- More often knockback 2-Pretty decent early hardmode 3- Overall, it works very well with melee speed, I would very much prefer it for hardcore when +24 defense doesn't help me much

[@terraSpark902]

I was extremely impressed with this video, especially at the end. Extremely well done. I'm hesitant to ask if you're going to make a video covering the old ones' army mixed summoner builds (and sometimes even without old ones' army armor) because I already know they're the best builds and I don't want relogic to nerf them 😭 but I'm sure you've experienced the pure dopamine releaseing optimization that those builds provide.. (Maybe if not that, you could make a video about the Gi) I it's better than the molten breastplate for dps. I even wear it with a titanium helmet and mythryl greaves for the first Mechanical bosses. Despite it's low defense, you can still tank the hits you need with it, no problem.

[@Soriichi-VEVO]

Generally, in games, crit is often better if there is a factor of critical damage multiplier ontop, and in some games crit multi can end up being somewhere in the ranges of 500-600% more damage, but since terraria is stuck at double (2x), reaching double base damage is generally the same, and as said, going 50/50 ends up being the same result, only changed slightly by a weapons base crit, but it is negligible

[@john_titor1]

Except you didnt factor in the fact that crits are applied AFTER defense and DR... which is the BIGGEST reason by far that lucky and menacing are not equal.

[@schmingbeefin4473]

I always have sharktooth in pre-hm, ichor in hm, and betsy's wrath in late game, so I generally see a good impact with crits as, while yes defense is doubly worse for crits, but piercing is doubly effective.

[@pokethelily]

>over 4k hours in mediumcore alone >post video explaining the value of defense >guy with 300 hours "erm actually you forgot lucky exists checkmate"

[@kapharjr]

I don't really think the amount of hours spent in a game reflects the amount of knowledge/skill you have. Best example I have is Happy Days, another Terraria KZbinr that has thousands of hours spent in the game, but has what I would consider a very mediocre knowledge pool (and I won't even talk about his game skills). Idk where you pulled the 4k hours in mediumcore for Sorbet, but the reason I trust his guides isn't the amount of hours spent, but rather the amount of knowledge you can perceive from most of his videos.

[@Marx_D._Soul]

​@@kapharjr seconded. The difference between someone who just sorta mindlessly plays vs someone who actively hunts down the code is readily apparent.

[@Palemis]

How do you know he has 4k hours IN MEDIUMCORE? also are those steam hours or in-game hours?

[@AziSlays]

I commented about Lucky and have 2k+ hours. That and you can have a lot of time in a game and still be dumb as bricks.

[@wuttut3276]

You should see the people who play MOBA's and have thousands of hours in it but are still bronze in ranked. Hours doesn't equate to knowledge or experience.

[@guber9339]

11:51 is a perfect response to a lot of 'purist' positions people try and force on games. Any game with well implemented RPG elements will reward you for maximizing what tools it gives you. In the form of more forgiveness for mistakes, more opportunities for damage, more flexibility for the player to tackle an encounter, and - with a deep enough understanding of the underlying mechanics of a game - with the ability to near-trivialize certain encounters by utilizing enough tools in just the right way.

[@damnthisisabadname]

🙏 some people genuinely believe you should max out crit before going menacing

[@Meowlegend7]

Its kinda funny when you get red digits in every hit though

[@Redddragon]

@@Meowlegend7 this is so true

[@Marcuskwok-hn5yi]

@@Meowlegend7 me like big number

[@Zeldrake]

"let's use melee because mage is a headache with spectral armor set bonuses" I completely applaud Sorbet Cafe's capability to go in great detail on something and also to point out when something really doesn't need to go further

[@ΓιώργοςΠαρασκευόπουλος-ω4τ]

Warding is the best. The problem with menacing is that it doesn't offer a huge difference in a fight? In events pierce and attack speed is more important than damage , along with enemies Bumboozlin you at every chance, it's way better to make a one shot to two shot rather than an 18% damage boost due to survivability . Lucky's problem is that most of the time (more by using a fast attacking weapon) you are going to acquire the crit most of time even without the prefix. In boss fights, warding is still the best due the games randomness, as opposed to games like dark souls where the attacks can be countered by rolling or simply predicting them, in terraria it is not the same case as enemies can randomly spawn in a fight and the attacks of the boss are quite random (even if you memorised the attack pattern),even in the best case scenario where you are a dodging demon, prefixes like quick and violent are better than menancing and lucky due to increasing your dodging capabilities or the damage potential is way higher. So Warding>Menancing>Lucky. Lastly even in for the worthy and getfixedboy difficulties your mobility in pre hardmode sucks, even with accessories like magilumienesence , thus you can't dogde just as good in the hypothetical top capabilities you would have, so the question then comes "Is it better to end a fight quicker if you can't survive it in the first place? " Edit:I watched the video about warding and this guy gets it

[@HaphazardousSpace]

I completely agree with that last part. (which is funny for me to say since there's only two moments in Deltarune yet where it's "better" to take damage, but hey I play other games too)

[@purplehaze2358]

"Anything that deals summon damage; whether it's a whip, minion, or mount; _cannot_ deal critical hits." Provided, of course, you're not using a whip with a summon tag crit chance like the morning star or kaleidoscope.

[@Marx_D._Soul]

Addressed within the video it is a flat amount and cannot be boosted by Lucky

[@purplehaze2358]

@@Marx_D._Soul I wasn't bringing that up as a point in favor of lucky.

[@deejayf69]

The average Menacing/Lucky fan:😭 The average movement speed enjoyer: 🗿

[@datbakedpotato5482]

With your lisp(? Speech impediment? Idk what they're called sorry ;-;) My mental image is of a catboy in a suit and tie with that long stick at a college classroom just tapping on the board ever so slightly agressively while making several hadn gestures. I love it.

[@iceicicle3046]

he has a speech impediment?

[@iceicicle3046]

do u mean accent or what

[@ME0WMERE]

@@iceicicle3046 he's said it himself, yes

[@iceicicle3046]

@@ME0WMERE I dont really notice it lol

[@elfrangofrito]

​@@iceicicle3046 If you pay attention you might realize he talks like "Defense shweds cwitical damage"

[@Ang3lUki]

I remember going specifically for lucky reforges when I was making attempts at killing the Dungeon Guardian with the piranha gun. I did it without an arena either, I just flew around and used ninja tabi.

[@xrendr]

I'm sorry to ask, but you didn't have a logopedic as a child did you..? 😅

[@YoshiTheMage]

I almost chimed in myself about Lucky but decided not to and I'm glad I didn't. I've been playing Terraria for nine years and have always liked to play a damage-optimised (Though not minmaxed) Mage so I'm definitely in the target audience for these breakdowns. I never really understood the math behind any of this, that stuff always flew right over me but your conclusions here have given me a fair bit to think about with regard to reforges.

[@john_titor1]

You do realize that all the math is just basic addition, subtraction, and multiplication, right? If that's flying over your head... you have bigger things to worry about.

[@9y404]

@@john_titor1 maybe they just didn't look into it, u don't have to assume they sat down trying to work it out and failed. besides, figuring out what's overall optimal is a bit of work

[@john_titor1]

@@9y404 yeah, i was definitely overly aggressive. Just hurts to see people can't be bothered to do basic math these days.

[@YoshiTheMage]

How rude.

[@_whar]

he forgot to talk about the rogue class

[@mb654bloopers]

I know this is talking about vanilla terraria. But I want to talk about calamity's interesting ways of making crit builds more rewarding. There are weapons like the tyranny's end that have special effects when getting a crit. There are also weapons like the soma prime that benefits from supercrits if crit chance is over 100%.

[@LeiNavI_]

I cant with the "r"s turning to "w"s 😅😂

[@xenopsychologist4943]

since ive been playing modded, ive switched to using the "path of modifiers" mod, which entirely changes the reforge system. but having good analysis on vanilla game functions is still very handy.

[@viniciuspessoa8628]

Hey, loving all the "guides" and explanations for terraria! I usually play normal, but i would love to play expert mode, would you do a guide of what to do? Like, farms to make before hardmode, setups you usually do, how (and if it is really needed) to contain biome spread... Thanks in advance!

[@Riinkz]

I love the way you handle numbers

[@LunarBloodRose27]

Whenever I would play melee I would split my accessories between violent and lucky. It was really fun seeing the funny big numbers appear so often

[@Keleksos]

The randomization in damage applying before defense is an additional point in favor of menacing (though it only matters when you're using low base damage vs. high defense) The use I have for full lucky is to get as far away from 50% crit chance as I can, since DPS is at its least consistent at 50% crit chance

[@leshamas_]

Back in the day when the saddle dummy cheese worked, I stumbled upon a Fishron video, with a Horseman's sword statue arena, with all slots being Lucky. Fishron went down in like 20 seconds. From that time on I tried to use Lucky everywhere I could (ngl sometimes to get a Lucky item is indeed a lucky occasion). But the damage, as the video shows, was only consistent with low-defence enemies. After the saddle cheese was fixed I started mixing it with Menacing and it became more consistent, being better than Menacing on average. But all this time I've been struggling with defence. So lately I just made a mage with all Warding who can facetank stuff like melee build cannot. I'm never going back to all Lucky again.

[@raff4874]

i wonder if any of this will change in 1.4.5, my only wish for accesory reforges was for relogic to make them have any value from 1-5 instead of 1-4 to see how much just 1% would change things, and if they would ever add a mega critical chance if it's above 100% which would really benefit the lucky forge a lot

[@fligugigu_]

a part of me wants relogic to heavily nerf warding and buff the damaging reforges lowkey, i like how calamity punishes you for taking damage. maybe they could add a similar thing to vanilla? but at the same time, some folks do genuinely enjoy tank builds, so im not sure.

[@surytrap]

@@fligugigu_ a demon possesed me to write this: "calamity punishes you for taking damage because its a mod aimed towards players who already have pretty considerable experience with the game, its intricacies and can reliably avoid damage or learn to do so vanilla is more laid back and more unbalanced and isn't trying to be geared towards players with considerable experience (by default the only time it gets close to that is for drunk worlds such as getfixedboi which is very clearly not the intended experience basically what im trying to say is vanilla shouldnt become like a mod geared towards more skilled players, if the devs werent fine with us tanking damage using certain builds they wouldve nerfed those builds by now hope this helps!"

[@themanwhospeaksinclams]

Can't wait for the Quick reforge video!

[@timbtw3656]

another very informative vid. thanks sorbet

[@billy65bob]

I've always maintained that a a mix of both gets you best results in the early game, but lucky gets decimated later on by enemies having defence. Seems the decimation was less than I expected, I must've done the math for menacing wrong... I graphed it with "(0.24 - x * 0.04)" vs "(x * 0.04)", so the idea being was that x = 0 represents 0 lucky and 6 menacing, and x=6 the opposite.

[@randomnumbersandlettersbec7175]

I just use whatever I get first, either warding, lucky, or menacing.

[@retrogamingmodding2262]

lucky gives super dopamine, especially if used with the tf2 crits mod (make the crit text from tf2 appear and plays the crit sound)

[@CamAlert2]

Having easier access to +damage increases rather than crit chance is the exact reason why i run Lucky, plus the extra knockback is great.

[@CreativelyJake]

i think i understand the real lesson of these videos. i should reforge everything to arcane

[@Elf0911]

Nah I just started playing terraria again and just yesterday I thought of this exact question. The KZbin algorithm is crazy and you’re crazy for timing it

[@dacrystalcreeper7300]

That mini speech at the end was the perfect response to all of the comments from people who didn’t watch the last video, but commented anyways.

[@Q.A.D.D.]

Nice argument. But I'd like to see you fight the Dungeon Guardian with pure damage build! Don't worry I'll wait. Jokes aside, I love these sort of maths videos. I am a nerd for numbers. I will still stand by lucky. But ultimately warding still wins in the end!

[@dgbstudiosscholten9728]

i was one of the people that commented about lucky thank you for this video you have inspired me to do some experimenting with these things such as menacing and lucky but in game ^^ edit: you earned my subscribtion with these 2 video's ty for being so informative

[@ijneb1248]

I just reforge until I either get menacing, warding, or lucky. I typically treat all 3 identically

[@jsj0520]

After watching your defense video a few days ago, I decided to start a new character and going for full defense has made master mode SO much easier. Playing as summoner. Seeing the Eye only deal ONE damage felt so satisfying lol. And I already beat brain twice.

[@tylersullivan4446]

Whenever i plays summoner i go melee speed

[@derp24lordz]

My old endgame rangsr build was pretty simple when it came to reforges, 2 lucky reforges brought me to 98% crit chance on the SDMG and 101% on the Sniper Rifle, after that i just went for 5 menacing accessories and with Luminite bullets was doing 400+ damage per shot to regular enemies and about 200 to Moon Lord which was more than enough to destroy his top eye before the laser started so i never needed more defense

[@diamonje]

These informational videos are great but I always laugh because it's math that doesn't apply to me. Not when I have an overcrit mod for 3x etc crits above 100% and 30+ accessory slots. You're right though. Gotta keep em as even as possible. Especially when I can just outsource damage from level+ which then makes it pure efficient to reforge all to lucky. My ranger playthrough with flamethrowers had Calamitas and my FPS begging for mercy.

[@biggiecheese2004]

Im really glad you brought up mobbing, because warding is basically 100% better than either of them but if you want damage go crit. Crit directly impacts your breakpoints on mobs and has basically no real tangible downsides compared to menacing in 99% of cases

[@benismann]

Ah the age old wisdom of "the only point of hp that matters is the last one"

[@potato1341]

Lucky I think mostly shines on particular weapons, namely weapons with a high hate rate and lower overall damage and that goes doubly so for pre-hardmode where it's very rare for menacing to add +1 damage to certain weapons. I had a pretty good pre-HM build for ranger that utilised the minishark and quad barrel shotgun with silver/tungsten/party bullets, a 33%~ crit rate and the stinger AND shark tooth necklace, lucky reforges REALLY helped it up its damage, the minishark was consistently hitting 40+ damage per shot pretty reliably even vs Queen Bee. You could pair that build with spiky balls, molotov cocktails and beenades (combined with the hive pack) for tons of super high damage and having like 5-6 lucky reforges to get these weapons up to like 33% crit rate instead of just adding 2-3 damage with menacing (+20% more damage for the minishark is like +1 or 2 damage per bullet when equipping the shark tooth neckcklace and stinger necklace is effectively giving it +5 damage outright) is WELL worth it.

[@shybandit521]

difference is actually very negligible still

[@berendberend702]

well actually 🤓menacing is more effective than lucky on weapons with a high fire rate and low damage (if you ignore rounding like you mentioned), because enemy defense will have less of an impact on the dps

[@potato1341]

Why are the replies I get just the "uhm akchually" meme

[@r-18altaccount85]

because the truth is literally the exact opposite of what you claim. the lower the weapon's base damage relative to the enemy's defense, the worse lucky becomes relative to menacing

[@Avarice0918]

After reading the arguments 60-70% of my accessories will be menacing and 30% will be lucky and maybe 10% like the wings will be quick.

[@DEERCRACKERLOVER]

This is why Relogic is serious when balancing these stats to make sure doesn't overlap

[@masterslayerable]

This is so true for normal terraria, but I feel like defense in Calamity high diff modes is significantly nerfed, especially early game because every boss has multiple hits that deal 100+ damage while you have maybe 30-50 defense on a defense focused build + you lose armour because of the defense shred mechanic.

[@bojnebojnebojne]

Something else you did not mention in the video in regards to dmg comparisons, are the human factor of accuracy as well, which is very important when comparing dmg profiles.