How Hard is it to Fly a Piper Arrow?

[@peacewind-aero]

I just bought a '69 Arrow II. Great little tutorial here while I wait for it to come out of post buy maintenance.

[@nickpapagiorgio5056]

Great video as usual Noel! The piper arrow is a beautiful little aircraft! Clean lines and that one in particular looks to be in excellent shape for being over 50 years old! An absolute beauty! Going from fixed landing gear to retractable makes a bigger difference in performance than people may think. Much smoother ride and obviously less drag and I am a big fan of Cherokee and Seneca aircraft for small planes they are my fav especially the older ones.

[@mamulcahy]

The way the Hershey bar Arrow descends with gear down and full flaps is an eye opener!

[@AtlasAir767CA]

Nice video, brings me back to my training days back in 1992.

[@johnrooke7498]

Really takes me back as I used to fly G-AWFJ, a Piper Arrow 180 the same as this one, from Manchester Barton. Cockpit so familiar as are all the checklists.

[@ozzypearson-leach4121]

That’s going back a while, not seen FJ at Barton in ages

[@airmanparker]

Msfs2020 Just Flight Arrow brought me here. Thanks for the video. Going to dig into the POH tomorrow.

[@luketucker1243]

Always look forward to these flying video . You are a true inspiration and I hope one day I might be able to get a pilots license

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Thank you Luke! If I can fly a plane, anyone can!

[@Antoxas7]

Great job Noel. The facial impressions of the guy next to you are funny. He smiles only once and all other time I have a feeling he is about to kick you out of the plane. :) Most likely I will have the same face if it was my personal plane and you are renting it. Anyway, great video, learn a lot. The University of KZbin is always the best place to get knowledge on the topic.

[@samhammond6370]

The plane actually belongs to the flying school, flying instructor is a great guy and always kept really relaxed ( but also vigilant) atmosphere in the aircraft when I flew with him!

[@garrya100]

It’s interesting watching somebody transitioning to the Arrow after flying a different aircraft. I did nearly all my training in my Arrow, basically from my second solo onwards so I guess I didn’t have those ingrained habits from a different aircraft to change.

[@ConvairDart106]

How did that work? I had to log 250 hours, before I could check out in the Turbo Arrow. Perhaps, it was a requirement of our club insurance? JFK Jr, comes to mind, as a pilot that was not qualified to fly the excellent Saratoga SP, which remains as my favorite cross country machine, due not to it's speed, but in comfort and load carrying capability.

[@garrya100]

Most likely an insurance requirement. My insurance company required 10 hrs dual and to be signed off as competent in the aircraft. I was one of the odd types who had a CSU and Retract endorsement on a student licence. There was a minor issue using the Arrow though. All the navex’s were designed to flown in a Tomahawk. After I’d completed them I didn’t have enough cross country time to qualify to do the test and had to fly some more….

[@mxyzptlyk]

Nice video, Noel - it takes me back. MPH instead of knots, the handbrake flaps lever. My first (you never forget your first) PA28 had all that and a non-standard six-pack, the instruments were everywhere that they shouldn't be. I have a photo of it on my wall to remind me. I got out of there real quick! 🤔 The bald-head headphone pad had me chuckling. 😁 Never seen one before.

[@jamesclay4889]

Brooksy! Met mark whilst I was doing my cpl me/it at Stapleford, absolutely lovely bloke! Glad you had a good flight Noel

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

He’s a fantastic instructor! And a top guy to boot.

[@jamesclay4889]

@@FlyWithNoelPhilips that he is! Can’t miss that voice on the radio that’s for sure 😂 glad you had a good session with him and nice to see the upgrade, it’s fun to fly that’s for sure! If your ever up Newcastle way give me a shout I’ll see if I can show you around the jet 😊

[@deanc.5984]

Love the Arrow. Instructor looks/sounds like he's done this 500,000 times before! CFI's already know what the students are going to 4get, need to work on, ..nothing beats experience for a teacher.

[@samhammond6370]

Yep, I’ve worked with Mark for about 10hrs in the first part of my ppl before he got a job training pilots for a major airline in a different part of the world, a truly great instructor and I’ll miss training with him. Good luck to you Mark!

[@MichaelAtherton1]

Nice job. Should really cycle the prop 3 times. First to check the RPM drop, second to check oil pressure drop and lastly to check if any oil is pissing out the CSU after the first two cycles. Also, the inner scale on the ASI is in KT ;)

[@WhiskeyAlphaPilot]

I knew we cycled 3 times, just didn't know why... thanks

[@thomasanderson7454]

Beautiful Old Arrow.

[@Tehlongcat]

I did almost all my CPL hour building in that plane! She’s an absolute beauty, still one of the best Arrows I’ve ever flown.

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

She is a very nice aircraft to fly.

[@garyag45]

The Arrow is an EXCELLENT flying aircraft! Absolutely love it.😎🇺🇸

[@flybobbie1449]

Some are, many are dogs.

[@richardnei]

Definitely some great flying, especially with the Runway change while in the circuit. It’s amazing just how much more complex the Arrow is compared to the basic Cherokee from a procedure point of view. I suppose the it would be same going from a Cessna 172 to a 182! ✈️

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Thank you! Lucky it was very quiet in the pattern that day, so one less thing to worry too much about. Certainly a different animal to the Warrior - and I feel like I underestimated quite how much!

[@philcrosby8931]

Nice job Noel, as mentioned below, suggest cycling the prop 3 times for proper check of the c/s hydraulics. I did the endorsement in one go (couple of hours from memory) so it included the gear unsafe procedures, etc. Also I guess you got a briefing on the W&B which can be tricky in the Arrow - sometimes needing an extra dead weight on board!

[@lee-johnston]

Nice video Noel. The variable pitch stuff does take some getting used to but I love the Arrow! Currently completing my CPL in an Arrow not too far away from you in Doncaster.

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Cheers Lee, yes the hardest thing is getting used to that manifold pressure gauge!

[@patrickunderwood5662]

1. The only Arrow I’ll ever fly is in MSFS, but videos like this really help with “the numbers.” 2. You Brits are so awesome with that ‘ol me-for-my, “on me test…” 3. How tall are you? In me fantasy life where I fly a real Arrow, will I have enough headroom??

[@NeilsCarsAviationTravel]

Really enjoyed that video Noel.

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Thanks Neil.

[@garryrayner5709]

Great content as always. My first complex aircraft was the 200bhp Arrow, which climbed like a homesick Angel. After a few hours, the extra levers and checks just become the norm.

[@ConvairDart106]

I thought the same thing, until I checked out in our Piper Dakota, PA-236! My headset went into the back seat, when I goosed the throttle on first solo! Not sure why they never gave the Arrow, the 235 hp option!

[@davidwallace5831]

@@ConvairDart106 Hot and high in the western US. Pretty much all of that power needed to shift any kind of load out of Trukee or similar.

[@malyk_3844]

Looks great! Definitely takes a bit of getting used to!

[@WhiskeyAlphaPilot]

currently doing my complex conversion on an Arrow. love all the 25/25/10s!!

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Haha, yes, for me 24/24, 20/24and 16/24 are drilled in my head!

[@Tom-ih8gr]

Fascinating how looking at the 1968 PA28 it just looks completely normal. If you look at a 1968 car it would like it’s from a different planet!

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

That's very true. Some minor visual differences on the newer models, but from the outside very similar. Inside I much prefer the older PA28s. The newer ones seem very utilitarian in comparison.

[@FlyUK]

I’m yet to fly the Arrow, looks a lovely aircraft 😊 great video, subscribed.

[@paulkirkland3263]

Great to watch, thank you.

[@Matty0705]

Great Flying Noel!! ✈️

[@Dhrruvv]

I've ordered a Daimond DA50 RG...😍 Can't wait to fly it. Love from India 🇮🇳

[@thebetterayaan]

In India??? How? Where?

[@thebetterayaan]

I really wish General Aviation becomes like the US in India...✈

[@Dhrruvv]

@@thebetterayaan I'm yet to take the delivery.

[@Dhrruvv]

@@thebetterayaan Brother it's not really possible to be like us because of government restrictions and people unaware about GA. Let's hope for the best🙏

[@thebetterayaan]

@@Dhrruvv So, I'm guessing you're a private pilot. Bhai - One request... Please open a KZbin channel bhai! I was looking for a channel that is about general aviation in India...Unfortunately, there are hardly people who actually fly private here. Please...

[@MH19860]

Great video. Looks like the aircraft is in good condition too. I always get told off if I wear the hi-vis inside the aircraft though !

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Yes I get told off for that. But not by the instructor, by the KZbin comments 😂

[@TejYT]

How much different is the arrow from a 172? Got my PPL in a 172 and now may build time in an arrow for CPL

[@aviationfan2637]

Good timing to get a glimpse of William and Kate

[@thebetterayaan]

Hello Sir...I have been enjoying your pilot videos very much and I have a question. Could you please share the app that you use for flying on your iPad? Also, I have been a long time follower on your other channel. I just enjoy the videos a lot. Thank You very much for the amazing content.

[@airfoxtrot2006]

Great video

[@rn2811]

The nice thing about the arrows is that if you forget to put the gear down pulling back on the MP below 15” will free fall but always remember to do your GUMPS on final.

[@jbd202]

Pretty certain that was disabled on most of them after some incidents.

[@jtkent28]

I used to love flying our flight schools arrow. It was an arrow 3 w/ steam gauges and 3 gear up landings under its belt (none by me thankfully). It felt like such a tank compared to the warrior but much more stable in the air. It was a great aircraft for doing complex training however the added weight and complexity of the retractable gear didn’t make much sense to me for anything else than being a trainer. I’d rather have a Dakota or a Cherokee 6 even instead.

[@calamityairlines9762]

Great to see I've just got the Piper for flight Sim 2020. Please do some flight sim videos

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

I have that too. I can definitely talk about it, once I start flying on my own in the Arrow and have a bit more confidence.

[@calamityairlines9762]

@@FlyWithNoelPhilips I will look forward to your flight sim vid . I have spent 1500 hours in the a320 fbw and it's really been a great experience.

[@justadroid]

What's the story with the flickering fuel press. gauge?

[@tedm6894]

Training aircraft....

[@ZeroThreeDelta]

Did you find the Arrow drops like a brick and is incredibly nose heavy? The Arrow we used to fly from Tatenhill was glorious in cruise, but you had a workout on landing!

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Yes absolutely it is like a brick on landing. Very hard to nail the landings, I either flare too early or too late, it’s a bugger to land smoothly. But you’re right - once in the sky, no autopilot needed. Steady as a rock, just trim and it goes where you point it. Love the vids by the way!

[@ZeroThreeDelta]

@@FlyWithNoelPhilips Ah, thanks! If ever you find yourself aimlessly wandering around Florida, let me know and we’ll go for a flight somewhere. I always say that about PA-28’s - far more stable than Cessna’s, but the Arrow in particular is a fantastic cruiser.

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

You never know your (bad) luck. I can sense a 3 way with Mr Dixon on the horizon (purely in a hypothetical, consensual flying planes type situation). Will be spending a lot of time in Georgia this year.

[@ZeroThreeDelta]

@@FlyWithNoelPhilips Ah, wonderful. I know he’d be up for it (in a purely hypothetical, consensual flying planes type of way) and GA really isn’t hard to get to from here.

[@ZeroThreeDelta]

@@FlyWithNoelPhilips Spoke to Dixon - we’re game. Feel free to send an email to [e-mail] so we can keep in touch and figure it out when you’re heading stateside.

[@observer1242]

What was that instrument down there flickering back-and-forth. Is that your oil pressure? Bad gauge?

[@mosesbeacon6884]

4 comments! Never been this early. Either way love the content. :)

[@BrentCraig7]

This is inspiring!

[@flyingmortgageman]

I am in the process of buying a PA200r - 200 Arrow. Awaiting the call from the Finance company as I type. Been watching your KZbin since I started the Journey to get my Licence just under 2 years ago. Great job and i enjoy the bigger stuff as well you do. Reason for the message . I am watching this older video again as I still cant get my head round the Blue Lever but hope that the Arrow is not a step to high as I only got my Licence in November 21. I have 25 hours P1 now mostly in PA28 161 and already done a trip in the normal PA28 from Bournemouth to Duxford (Bucket list thing great day) so longer tripos are my plan espeshally as I live in Bournemouth close to the Channel Islands and France. Do you think the Arrow is worth taking the step now or perhaps keep hiring get more hours before going for the more complex machine?

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Ah that’s fantastic. Get used to the blue lever early on. It’s not too difficult just an extra thing to do. I find flitting between the Warrior and the Arrow more of a challenge as you get used to the simplicity - but flying complex regularly will get you set for anything bigger you end up flying.

[@elmin2323]

Props forward on downwind? Normally it's done on final

[@flybobbie1449]

First thing pilots say flying the Arrow, we couldn't get the gear up. I ask what speed where you climbing at?

[@searlecom1]

Hi Noel, have you tried the PA-28R Arrow III by Just Flight in MSFS2020 and if so, how does it compare to the real thing?

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Hi Mike, I actually use this to practice on at home. It’s pretty good to be fair. I think a lot comes down to the controls you use - I have the Saitek yoke and pedals and tend to struggle a bit on ground handling. But that’s not the fault of the aircraft, if anything its a very good representation.

[@louisthetravelspotter]

Epic cool video Noel I look forward to the next one on inflight or this

[@theaccountant5133]

I see other instruments moving more than usual and that means vibration. Why? How many hours on the engine? Anyone check the compressions to see how different they are?

[@ericschoeman6613]

Best aircrafts the piper the arrow is just simply the best getting in is a bit of a thing but that is not a big deal because it's about flight and landing and getting in the air is so easy. Best looking aircraft

[@wntu4]

Just as a point of self interest in continued living...one should LOOK at the control surfaces when checking them. :)

[@kimberlywentworth9160]

The airspeed may also be a bit fast. Sounds like this aircraft is hard to flare

[@TRPGpilot]

Nice arrow, love to fly them but prefer the C177RG

[@archerpiperii2690]

The Arrow is a real pleasure to fly, it feels a lot heavier and more solid than a 172 which tends to flex.

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Absolutely agree, it’s stable as anything in the cruise. Even compared to the Warrior.

[@archerpiperii2690]

@@FlyWithNoelPhilips How did you like the emergency gear extend procedure? I had a lot of fun with that.

[@RR-pw5nb]

Flew a Turbo Arrow IV for years. Not hard to fly, but the turbocharger had a fixed wastegate which required more attention to manifold pressure when advancing the throttle for takeoff. Loved the 6 cylinder engine and 3 blade prop....very smooth compared to the 4 cylinder engine. The T tail was the STUPIDEST thing Piper did to that airplane....Turbo Arrow III was the best handling one.

[@leeshelton8023]

Why are wearing a health and safety vest in the air?

[@HectorWPadilla]

“ thank you for your visit, have a nice flight” wow 😮, I’ve never heard that from a tower 😂 I like “ red, blue , green” a little bit better than gumps We are encouraged to perform two gumps check but to be honest if you do one Gumps implementing and substituting the last gumps check for “ Red, Blue, Green” seems a lot more efficient and safer Red Mixture Blue Propeller Green landing gear

[@jamesplummer356]

Roll your wrist in the flair it will let you pull the yoke back that last little bit

[@alvinzichan]

哇 csu and landing gear

[@ksmith610]

Kinda hard to concentrate on the Arrow when there’s a DA62 next door….😮

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

That's a gorgeous plane. Never flown in it but it's used by the club for MEP/IR training.

[@joelthacker4285]

Best bang for the buck in existence. Landing gear will drop if you lf you loose hydraulic pressure. fantastically simple gear system. engine is the best engine made at the time and you can run lean of peak if you are careful at around 9 gph. awesome aircraft.

[@theaccountant5133]

I'm watching what I would call the fuel pressure gauge bounding around all over the place. I have never seen that before and I have over 2,000 hours in a PA-28R-201 1977 model. I am suspect to think there is something going on with the engine fuel pump. I see the electric fuel pump is on and that should have steadied any fuel pressure issues but it has not. I think someone needs to check out that erratic fuel pump pressure before it goes to zero.

[@philipgledhill7227]

I noel. Hope you are well buddy. you are doing ok buddy just a matter of getting used to the cockpit .one more lesson and you will be feeling more confident for a solo philip.

[@joelthacker4285]

Add an icybreeze air conditioner cooler and you have a personal jet!

[@b3l14l]

"AI Traffic in Flight Sim" - I think you just uncovered that this is all a simulation.

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

Explains my terrible frame rate most mornings!

[@matthewjensen9550]

The Arrow can be a very fickle airplane to land gracefully

[@MassimilianoChiani]

7010. Nice

[@paulmartos7730]

Hard? NOT! You have to learn how to deal with retractable gear (raise 'em on takeoff, lower 'em before landing. Duh!) and that constant speed prop (24 inches by 24 hundred RPM works well) in cruise, I spent a lot of time in an Arrow, mostly during instrument training. It's a well-behaved aircraft; it does exactly what you tell it to do.

[@FlyWithNoelPhilips]

I'm still struggling with my speed on approach. I find if I cut the power just a little it will sink like a brick, especially in gusty conditions. Still trying to work out that perfect combination to get a smooth approach!

[@RosssRoyce]

Why “hard”? To my opinion if you want hard(er) try ultralight airplane on a windy day doing standard t n go patterns at 500 feet height landing on a 250m grass strip. I started doing this since recently and my normal GA ppl planes flying feel like a joke.

[@heyopey]

how about some right rudder :-)

[@johnisley4578]

Look sorry but I have a few differences here. Firstly in that aircraft RPM is NOT reduced before manifold pressure as your instructor told you to do, but Manifold pressure reduced first. Turbo models differ. If he is giving you those power settings in the circuit you may have problems with other aircraft you hire when you are checked out. 25/25 climb 21/23 downwind and a normal cruise is 24/24 or 23/24 and of course on final, pitch should be well and truly in the full fine position with approx 15 MP. I believe that the instructor may be giving you economical setings rather than teach you correctly. Cheers

[@elmin2323]

Fuel pressure gauge useless

[@tedm6894]

CSU and gear. AAAAAAAA

[@simonnlaroche5438]

Back in time is a bit boring tbh...

[@burntoutaussie4005]

Piece of piss.. . . Lovely aeroplane.