How Hollywood Corrupts Trans Stories

Everyone wants stories of trans pain, but they don't want to ask why we're hurting. They want a comfortable fantasy that we're suffering at the hands of others & not a system meant to exclude us that they continue to uphold. These are stories about those systems and how queerness DISRUPTS them by our existence. From Spider-Man: Across the Spiderverse to Nimona to Owl House, let's dive into how people never understand queer art and the commodification of trans pain.
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✔SCRIPT BY✔
Jessie Gender and ‪@Aranock‬
✔ RELATED VIDEOS BY ME✔
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▶"The Anti-Trans Disinformation Pipeline" - • The Anti-Trans Disinfo...
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▶"How To Feel Hot as a Trans Woman" - • How To Feel Sexy as a ...
▶"The Book that Murdered JK Rowling" - • The Book that Murdered...
▶"The Sexualization of Transgender Bodies" - • The Sexualization of T...
▶"What Are TERFs? - How "Gender Critical" TERFs Harm Transgender Folks" - • What Are TERFs? - How ...
▶"The Continually Escalating Anti-LGBT Rhetoric" - • The Continually Escala...
✔ CITED WORKS✔
▶ Why We Secretly Want the World to End by Zoe Bee - • Why We Secretly Want t...
▶ Was Across the Spiderverse "Copaganda?" with @SkipIntroYT by FD Siginifier - • Was Across the Spiderv...
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[@earthtoeden8977]

Everyone who keeps saying that gwen can't be trans bc shes in love with Miles has no conception of the separation of sexuality snd gender identity

[@mrstrangeworld5977]

um no

[@blockytheblock1]

@@mrstrangeworld5977 ok but like are you even trying at this point

[@fuckwit107]

Yeah I'm struggling to see what they mean? Like how does that get in the way at all.

[@quintessential7515]

@@ViktorErikFade they're like shitty laptops from 2008, as a nonbinary lesbian meself lol

[@fainfawn7641]

Yeah

[@emmbea]

An important part of Nimona is how, when they vilify her and attack her, her reaction is to fight back to defend herself, which in turn reinforces the bigotry in the communities eyes. It becomes ‘her fault’ for reacting badly, ‘her fault’ that Gloreth turned on her, and ‘her fault’ that people want her dead. So yeah, civility politics is killing us.

[@fellinuxvi3541]

What?

[@knuckles543]

@@fellinuxvi3541 basically ''just letting them hate on her'' did nothing to stop them, arguing civilly as nimona did did not change their minds (because they were set on not tolerating her existence) so she did the absolute last resort, which is to defend herself ONLY THEN did they react in any different way, and they doubled down because now they have a justification to hate her, some ''she'll attack you if you yell at her, we need to end her before she starts'' type shit basically they only backed off for a bit when they realized she would fight to defend her existence, they did not back off prior to her trying to persuade them, prove to them or argue her case, and doing nothing does nothing to change a situation, so appeasement and ''biting your tongue'' only encourages MORE harassment and vilification the only thing they understand is hierarchy and barbarism, so when someone DARES to fight back, or someone demonstrates talent, quality or ability ''above their station'' they get uppity and faux-outraged, because how DARE social mobility, progress and time be a thing that empowers the ''lesser'' same thing happened when the suffragettes marched and protested for women's rights massive backlash, protestors arrested, eventually won out and women got the vote and property rights, especially more egregious when some areas (like the UK) HAD women's rights for a time, but due to church and patriarchal pressure it got taken away until the long marches same thing happened for the emancipation and civil rights eras with vehement opposition, even lincoln was against it, but recognized it NEEDED to be done for the good of all, thenceforth came the founding of the KKK and jim crow laws (due to the lost cause of the confederacy intertwined with KKK types) same thing happened with the Salem witch trials because how DARE women be educated in any way that made them better then the MAN, ''the only way a woman could possibly know such things is by consorting with the DEVIL'', zealotism and puritan authoritarianism designed to artificially maintain a hierarchy, instead of letting nature, time ad progress destroy it. same thing happened for stonewall (LGBT+ bar about to be forcibly shut down, regulars resisted, to public shock and ''dismay''), in some areas it was ILLEGAL to be LGBT+ in public (even in the UK and i'm assuming the U.S), ad now the same forces conspire to force it upon us AGAIN, using trans people as their shoe in the door to attack the entire community, since their failed attempt to keep gay marriage off the books. such change never happened without action, violent or otherwise, because standing in the corner asking to be heard does nothing, you DEMAND change, civil rights did not come peacefully, just as you had MLK jr, you had Malcom X you must be prepared to fight and die for your ideals, if only to plant the seed of a tree you may never sit in the shade of, we cannot pass the buck, we cannot let this slanderous discourse towards the community continue, for our sakes and those that will follow us years from now .... it doesn't matter what the press says or the politicians or public, it doesn't matter if they all band together and demand you move aside, the only thing for you to do is to stand beside the river of truth and say ''no, YOU MOVE''

[@uniquenewyork3325]

"I thought you guys were all about love and acceptance" "I thought you were the tolerant left"

[@knuckles543]

@@uniquenewyork3325 tolerance only goes so far before allowing the unacceptable, and permitting the intolerant to seize control, infinite tolerance allows the intolerant to eliminate people without challenge (see the GOP war on “woke”, A.K.A being a good person and accusing everyone under the sun of bring a “groomer”) To tolerate intolerance is to invite the death of tolerance, thus in a truly tolerant society the intolerant are squashed and forced into regression Since tolerance is proactively reflexive, this only affects those with a desire to be intolerant, those who ARE tolerant must work to root out the intolerant for the prosperity of the majority of humanity Those who choose to be; or are innately, intolerant have no place This is why conservatives are crying, they hate the fact their shit is bring rebuked naturally, so they have to force their views and their obsession with genitals down our throats. They can keep crying until the grave takes em,

[@fellinuxvi3541]

@@knuckles543 But it sounds like the exact opposite. As soon as she fought back, they doubled down, exactly as civility politics would suggest

[@j_fenrir]

The fact that Ballister uses his prosthetic hand to stop Nimona from piercing her heart is also important. Throughout the story, Ballister's arm is constantly removed, hidden and exploited - showing the systemic mistreatment of those with disabilities. Ballister seems to be unable to accept his newfound disability, just like he is unable to accept Nimona. Yet, in Nimona's moment of need, he extends a hand. His prosthetic hand. His full embrace and acceptance of not only Nimona, but himself is a powerful one.

[@Azarilh]

genius

[@lemonfelonies124]

"if you're trans do that shit when you're 18" is such a wild sentence given the fact that that's not how that works at all

[@august_the_nerd]

That’s what my mom said to me when I tried to come out so now I’m secretly trans in school and I guess I’ll wait whomp whomp

[@averyeml]

“Have you considered… just waiting to be trans later?” Lmao so wild 😂

[@brittnianime]

right? these weirdos think just saying trans means giving a child a bbl and breast surgery. Do you make your goth kids wait? How bout boys who like theater? Or kids who wanna dye their hair? These self discovery things that children explore to find out more about themselves should not wait or be suppressed till 18

[@an0bserver2000]

it's so insidious too. like I'm never going to be free from dysphoria because I was forced to wait until I was 18 to transition. when cis people tell trans people to "just wait until you're 18" what they're actually saying is that they want us to suffer.

[@thegoldenraysoftheglorious1180]

One of my friends almost committed su*cide for not being able to transition at 14. I swear some of these people would rather children die than let them make decisions that " they will regret later"

[@OsirisMalkovich]

Nimona's "easier for who?" ripped right through me. I was holding it together until then, but I burst into tears when she said it.

[@elsnasdragonnet6959]

for me (a non binary young adult), it was the "all of the children are being told as a very young age that they'll be a hero if they point their swords to someone like me, and i'm the monster ?". i love this movie

[@jellsies]

I watched it last night, everything about Nimona as a character jabbed me right in the heart. As a non-binary AFAB person, Nimona getting angry at Ballister saying "just be a girl" hit me so hard.

[@carlrogge94]

Personally her talk about her suicidel thougths and the "I see you Nimona" hit harder for me.

[@Thiefnuker]

I thought of that as a splendid autistic representation tbh. "Shapeshifting" being things such as stimming, infodumping, remaining at a topic for a longer time than a neurotypical person wants to instead of "dropping it" for the sake of "peace", etc. The "just be a girl" I interpreted as in "just be normal". Those things.

[@elsnasdragonnet6959]

@@Thiefnuker you're right, this is also a very valid interpretation of the character. And she can also be both, knowing that (we don't know why) a lot of trans people are also autistic, those two issues are different but connected.

[@ilikeyoutube7224]

Gwen being trans is cool. Gwen not being trans but an ally is also cool. Anything that suggests shes supportive is cool. As long as something isnt against trans, it's cool.

[@ForestCreature7]

True actually, also this makes ppl criticizing it look even more menacing ........

[@twistedwonderland1043]

And even if she isn't trans, I've had a lot of my trans friends tell me that her story was super relatable to them, so there is also that.

[@mikeval1525]

Problem is that some people take the trans headcanon as fact and get angry if you disagree.

[@Ren_Davis0531]

This is the way.

[@girlien]

This comment is cool.

[@AshArtzMusic]

Conservatives could watch a clear allegory for slavery and be like “oh but they’re not racial minorities so you’re just grasping at straws”

[@devofficialchannel]

They'll be the ones to say stuff like "Well, you see, the slaveowners DO have a point, you know?"

[@vapx0075]

@@devofficialchannel I'm internally crying at your comment.

[@Bratkartoffel16]

Well thats conservatives but most people who dont agree with the theory of Gwen being trans arent, so whats with that?

[@Val-ud9fn]

@@devofficialchannel I've had this exact conversation. Can confirm

[@uncroppedsoop]

​@@Bratkartoffel16 it doesn't look that way to me, but just to roll with your question, people can contribute to oppression without even knowing they are. Gwen at the very least clearly has a trans _allegory_ going on, but even that gets vehemently denied by people who don't _mean_ to be transphobic. everyone has some degree of internalized beliefs or behaviours that contribute to oppression, even the victims of that oppression, but it's important to reflect on that and be willing to grow past it when you're called on it

[@nicatina]

Gwen being cis is valid. Gwen being trans is valid. Gwen being non-binary/genferfluid is valid. None of these takes away her character. It doesn't ruin her character and it doesn't get in the way of her relationship with Miles.

[@titusfortunus2916]

I guess that's why it's annoying to a lot of people. It's basically corporations saying they support trans people without having to show and directly claim and include actual trans people. "DUDE NO WE PROMISE IT'S TOTALLY THE SAME But like we never talk about it nor will we put it in any promotional material nor will we even outright state it in the movies or even draw any parallels other than the fact she had to come out which could also be gay or an addiction or even just having sex in a religious abstinence household." I don't want gwen to be claimed as trans. not because I don't want trans representation.. but because I don't want hollywood to get any credit for this lame-ass pussyfooting half-hearted NON-SUPPORT. GIVE US A *REAL* TRANS/NB CHARACTER. NIMONA WAS AWESOME AND PERFECT, NO MARKS, SHE TALKED ABOUT CHANGING AND HOW SHE HATES HOLDING IT IN AND HOW SOCIETY EXPECTS HER TO CONFORM.

[@ma.2089]

@@titusfortunus2916 it’s prob cuz the story isn’t about gender so There’s no need to confirm anything. How would they even confirm it? It’s unlikely Gwen will talk about it either

[@nicatina]

@@titusfortunus2916 y'all are so fucking annoying and basically missed the entire point of my comment lmfao. You don't want her to be trans because you're fighting for a cis rep.

[@blueberrimuffin6682]

@@titusfortunus2916 It'd be a bit weird to just... bring up that you're trans while saving the multiverse. In fact, I think most trans people would prefer to be just... seen as their gender, leave it at that.

[@AnimationFanboy2k4]

Not only that, it doesn't affecting the plot!

[@LakituAl]

Sometimes it's not even about not being able to read, but outright refuse. Bridget from Guilty Gear turned to the screen and said "I'm a trans woman", had a theme song about disphoria AND THE CREATOR OF THE GAME HIMSELF CONFIRMED SHE'S A TRANS WOMAN and somehow months later you'll still see some folks on bird app going "no, but you see, in Japan...". Olympic levels of gymnastics.

[@pisscvre69]

fascists love to say theyre defending truth while lying so blatantly theres no room for interpretation LOL

[@MrPiccoloku]

SPINAL INJURIES INBOUND!

[@nuclearpancake3683]

FR LOL this is (her actual dialogue btw) in one of the scenes she says “cowgirl is fine, cause, im a girl!” BRO IT’S SO DAMN OBVIOUS HOW COULD ANYONE DENY THIS!?

[@strawberryusagi2037]

Actually i was surprised because of her original story from the before games,i though it was a trans man since she already had her birth registration as a woman,and to her,in the before story,was hard to prove to be a "man",so to me i always though Bridgette was at least a non binary person,so it is ok to be clarified now!

[@DeathnoteBB]

@@strawberryusagi2037Yeah she’s assigned a woman at birth, so if anything she’s a GNC cis woman to me

[@PlatinumAltaria]

I wish people would realise that they can relate to characters who don't share their arbitrary physical characteristics. And I'm addressing the CIS people here: you can actually like the character even if she's trans. Her being trans is not taking her away from you and giving it to someone else, it's just adding another dimension to her character.

[@emilyrln]

Yes! Privilege really hamstrings empathy, to the detriment of all of us.

[@terpsidance.]

Learning to identify with characters who aren't CIShet white guys has made art so much more enjoyable

[@pisscvre69]

being trans and autistic and due to a few other circumstances lol, i've rarely related to any character in that direct way others do where they just connect with the one and not others, its weird to me that people dont think outside themselves that way, that said the few times i really have seen myself in a character it meant a lot to me, Tsukimi from princess jellyfish, ???, i know theres more right? RIGHT?! SDFDGHSHG, i mean theres also Saki from [REDACTED] (Saki umu

[@riccardozanoni2531]

@@cobraaaaaaaaaaaa oh darling. You don't realize the irony in your statement, do you?

[@Jidashia]

​@@cobraaaaaaaaaaaayou do realise that anyone who isn't cis, straight or white already relates to people/characters who are because they are the main characters of almost all western media.

[@Vivigreeny25]

That opening was the most cathartic thing I’ve seen in like, WEEKS. I am SO SICK, of people just shutting down queer interpretations at EVERY turn. I see people draw Gwen with a fairly subtle pride flag and comments are always filled with “Gwen ISNT trans and it’s better that she’s an ally anyways!!” I’m not even trans and I’m *exhausted.* So it’s just nice to be in spaces where not everyone is insane and assholes.

[@saraperpetua1093]

yeah

[@TreeHairedGingerAle]

YES. 👏🏾✨ Every word of this!

[@Bratkartoffel16]

Why is everyone who doenst agree with everything your group say insane and an asshole? You started that debate, literally no one cared about her gender before. But youre forcing everyone into making a statement about this, and obviously most say that Gwen isnt trans, cause there are no good arguments for that and he being cis is just much more plausible. Gwen is amazing, and she is relatable to a lot more people than just trans ones, and definetivly making her trans would not just be nonsensical, but would also take away from her relatability.

[@winter945]

​@@Bratkartoffel16what about her being trans would make her unrelatable? Is that not also true of her being cis making her unrelatable to trans people?

[@keith720]

It's nice to non trans people sick of this too

[@lbean9828]

I love how Nimona acts like she craves violence and gore and death, but when it comes down to it, she doesn't actually want to hurt people, she just wants to defend herself. Like, we know she can literally breathe fire, but when she turns into a dragon, she breathes cereal on all the knights (also, love the scene when Ballister says "you didn't tell me you could breathe fire" and just accepts that and doesn't follow it up with "small minded" questions and it makes Nimona visibly happy!) Like she's embracing how people view her as a monster, which I think can be relatable to LGBT+ people.

[@eli3silver]

because she wants to tear down the system not tear people limb from limb. unlike goldenloin

[@Emery_Pallas]

It’s ig a bit like Megamind, where both protagonists act as the bad guy not because they’re bad people, but because it’s the only role their respective societies ever gave them.

[@chellivision]

And when that kid almost dies, but Nimona blocks it from happening with her tail.

[@kennyholmes5196]

I bet they're missing one crucial detail... Even if she _isn't_ part of the LGBTQIA+ spectrum like they're saying, _she's still clearly at least an Ally based on all the evidence shown._ She'd still dislike the people saying she's not trans either way!

[@somerandomgal3915]

Psst. I would add to that bet that they purposefully ignore/omit/distract from it, to make it still plausibly look like a win for their conservative politics there. „She is not trans!“ is an easier in a conversation to keep going and to defend stance than „she shouldn’t be defending queer/trans people!“ and all the other stuff that basically says „she’s a bad role model, she ought to be enforcing *my* conservative politics and *my* conservative beliefs towards everyone’s children, because that is right!“ there. I guess it’s obvious what to bring up more often in that type of convo

[@zoyadulzura7490]

Yes. In the interpretation that she isn't trans, it seems fair to assume that someone very close to her is, maybe an aunt or uncle or someone else in the family (which would also explain her dad's pin). In the scenario that Gwen is meant to be trans, it's kind of uncomfortable that a cis woman voices her rather than an actual trans woman. The fact that the movie leaves it rather ambiguous makes that prospect less uncomfortable though. I'm throwing out there an alternate interpretation: the Peter of her universe is a trans guy. Maybe they could both be trans :)

[@Wolfeur]

@@zoyadulzura7490 "it's kind of uncomfortable that a cis woman voices her rather than an actual trans woman" Why? Isn't the point that they're supposed to be the same at the end of the day?

[@Jasmin-lg3gf]

"She'd still dislike the people saying she's not trans either way!" But this argument goes in both ways. She also would dislike people who weaponize her support for trans people and say she's trans. And nothing else is this discussion. To assume she's trans by the color of her suit is bonkers. It was shown what Miles would be then. There is no indication in the film that she is anything more than a supporter.

[@Wolfeur]

@GreenMayoMan69_ I'm not missing the point. The whole idea is supposed to be that a trans woman is a woman. By that logic, what's the matter? If a woman voices a trans woman, isn't it the perfect illustration that there isn't a fundamental difference?

[@nermomi]

Its so much fun how we're called "narcissistic" for calling one character trans, and they're not narcissistic when they don't accept one character is different from them, isn't it?

[@joshstephens413]

Because Gwen isn't. READ THE FUCKING COMICS!

[@halloweencat9951]

lol, we're called narcissistic for calling one character trans, while they just assume everyone is cis and straight like them

[@Froggycolouring]

Yeah its like how they say we have “fragile ideology” and then throw a tantrum when we suggest something, like “sure but who is the one throwing a tantrum over a fictional characters gender identity?”

[@halloweencat9951]

@@Froggycolouring true, very true

[@goblinguy3103]

Hey just lyk narcissism is an actual cluster b disorder! Please use terms like selfish, vain, egocentric, etc when you’re not talking about someone with NPD

[@lordtette]

Having to admit she's trans would mean a cis person has to accept and admit the fact they can like trans people.

[@saraperpetua1093]

yeah

[@Bratkartoffel16]

And if a cis person says that they dont think qwen is trans its transphobic? Yeah sure if so i could say that everyone who wants gwen to be trans is cisphobic, but i quess that logic cant go two ways.@@saraperpetua1093

[@MK-moth]

Agreed! And BE LIKE trans people! That there’s not this hard line in the way trans people look/act vs cis people

[@ChimeraLotietheBunny]

Woah

[@cipher8523]

A pet peeve i've had with many Nimona reviews is how they often miss the Director as an antagonist, simply writing her off as a predictable twist villain who killed the queen for power, even though that was not her motivation at all. She didn't want to be the new queen, she wanted to uphold the status quo. The queen wanted to "change the system from the inside", and the Director couldn't allow that. Good cops don't last huh? The Director's motivation wasn't a quest for power, it was fear - and resulting from that fear, a hatred towards anything different. I thought it a very deliberate choice that this very conservative character was depicted as a white woman in a position of power. As right now a big part of the transphobia we face is born of the weaponized fear turned hatred of TERFs.

[@zosobansk]

Speaking of Nimona I recently watched it in Polish dubbing with my brother and cousin and I was quite frankly shocked when Nimona in the movie used gender neutral pronouns and verb conjugations for herself. Polish is a very gendered language and we have no real long standing history of non binary language and so using what are esentially neo pronouns in the movie made me tear up. There are nearly none examples of the use of nonbinary pronouns, not even in translations, and this is a mainstream film for children, where they really had an easy way out as in the original text everybody uses she/her for Nimona. But they still went that extra mile and made her textually trans. And as a nonbinary Polish person it was especially powerful. My mind keeps coming back to it, and as much as I adored watching the original and connecting to the story that way, expieriencing that clearly, undeniably explicit representation of my lived experience is what I keep coming back to. Representation matters

[@andriwll]

Hey, really great to hear that!

[@louzo5175]

amazing :D also a funny fact tecnicly putins pronouns is they/them in russian bc in russian- gender neutral is used for EVERYONE whos either older then you or has to be respected

[@chakravant]

This. Also from Poland.

[@upumpkin]

That's awesome!

[@zinkul321]

I loved this in the dubbing, since it's making me get used to hearing those forms. I want to feel that they're right, because I'm constantly mad at the polish language for how it's almost impossible to speak of oneself or someone else as a nonspecified gender or non-binary. But one thing that made me increasingly frustrated was that Ballister never stops referring to Nimona using female forms and pronouns? Even when he accepts everything else, and Nimona explicitly keeps using the neutral form, so why doesn't he? Even at the very end? I dunno, it just rubs me the wrong way. Still loved the dubbing, but I was very confused about that.

[@PonyJammin]

The "you have to have canon suffering" part also fits completely within the idea of Spiderperson=queer. The transmed idea that you can't be trans without suffering, without dysphoria, without surgery and passing perfect and everything. You haven't earned it. You aren't trans enough. As a nonbinary person who doesn't really want. A lot of things outside top surgery for only half gender-related reasons. That part resonates for me in more ways than one.

[@Froggycolouring]

Yeah I’m nonbinary too and I don’t think I’ll want surgery either, but sometimes I feel not trans enough, so I’m glad I’m not the only one feeling that :)

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

Oh yeah I kept getting flashbacks to those Blair white vids where she would call other queer people "impersonators" when they didn't fit her ever changing standards

[@gl1tter_cloudz295]

Yeah. Transmeds honestly need help. I kind of feel bad for them.

[@Lumberjack_king]

I mean the whole point of the movie is that all those requirements are bullshit made up to exclude people

[@Lumberjack_king]

​@@gl1tter_cloudz295don't they are as bad as terfs

[@theomcinturff1213]

I gotta say, Nimona really highlighted how good actual, canonical representation feels. I get that a lot of queer folks seek to "prove" that a character is queer to justify empathizing, but I'm in the opposite camp: make it canon. Make them kiss. Make them say I love you. I want to hear them say it. As much as I like having stories that are allegorical or interpretable as queer, allegory doesn't do it for me like Bal and Ambrosius did. And before folks come in all "trans isn't a personality" just give me one explicitly trans character in a movie before you whine about "bad representation".

[@LauraLovesHugs]

had this same feeling when i finally read Bloom Into You recently, it's so much nicer just having it out there on the table and not just pretending like it's ambiguous whether they're queer or not. It makes for much better stories too.

[@nessa-parmentier]

I've seen people ask what the lgbt representation adds to Nimona Like... literally there's nothing if you remove the queer story

[@universal_stupidity]

this is how I feel about the owl house, it has so much casual but completely cannon representation, and it treats its main romance, two girls in love, completely like it treats the other romances

[@j_fenrir]

Hi, small correction! About Spider-Punk's laces being blue - this refers to "lace-code", which was a regional, subtle communication system that evolved through word of mouth. This system was mainly popular in the US (while Hobie is a Londoner) in the 90s, and has thoroughly died out since. Lace code is also associated with skinheads - identified by their shaven heads (which Hobie very clearly lacks) and an unfortunate tie to white supremacy as racists tried to take over the punk movement in the 90s. No punks use this system anymore. A very specific iteration has resurfaced on tiktok, which is posthumously condemning old punk photos for unfounded ties to racism in regions that didn't even USE lace code. Sorry for the essay, just wanted to say how the perpetuation of lace-code's continued existence negatively effects the punk community. - Your friendly neighbourhood punk

[@liamobrien1839]

I remember that code! I dressed punk 88-92, and i was intimidated by the lace color code... i didn't want to use the "wrong" color! And it took me months to find chains that would fit through my combat boot eyelets, since I thought chains were a nice way to say "I'm outside your system, skins!" The chains were near impossible to fate and cut up my fingers, but they looked real cool.

[@j_fenrir]

@liamobrien1839 honestly chains to tie boots sounds so dope I've never heard of that before!! (Also RIP to your poor hands lol)

[@timothymclean]

Oh, that's a shame. Having a specific code for "This person has successfully slain a cop" is rad.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

Punk is lame anyway and blatantly failed to implement systemic change and became corrupted by toxic white men, so who cares?

[@Baelor-Breakspear]

Straight up teared up at the Nimona part. I’m not trans or gay but I want nothing but the world to accept and give a fuck about everyone. No matter who they are.

[@terpsidance.]

You want to tear down the system that doesn't care too. Let's tear it down together.

[@dgtor_official]

Mad gay and using all pronouns and Nimona had me ugly cry the entire third act. One of the best pieces of animated art this year.

[@ChiWillett]

​@@terpsidance. les goooooo

[@nuclearpancake3683]

@@terpsidance.together

[@sunphoenix1231]

Identity is something that everyone struggles with, some much harder than others. Even if it's fairly brief from some supportive environments. Though finding a place in the world also takes some work. I have to change myself to meet in a place that works for both. Though not in a way that compromises my values. Sometimes personalities just don't work together either. It's tough. I wish acceptance was easy even among people that are "straight" "cis" or "white." Which I technically may or may not be 2 out of 3 of those, but I don't really Identity as none of those because there's nothing there that I care about. This all isn't supposed to be a whataboutism that pushes white cis men, but sort of the validation of why I believe trans people are valid and have rights is because they find value in their identity, whether internal or external. Everyone deserves to feel valid and feel seen.

[@TreeThings]

Whether or not Gwen is actually trans, I can 100% see why trans people may resonate with her.

[@WhATUpmAN301]

I can relate to har. Does that make me queer. Not saying that if you're trans and can relate to her your wong no that's perfectly fine just stop trying to make about a Pacific group of people

[@Bratkartoffel16]

Exactaly, gwen is ment be be relatable to everyone who goes through that general struggle, and desperataly wanting to make her trans only takes that away.

[@st4rz.of.perdition]

⁠@@Bratkartoffel16one interpretation doesnt take away anything lol people saying gwen stacy is transgender takes nothing away from her character its simply a reading 🤷‍♂️ same way people seeing her as relatable for other reasons or analyzing things about her that arent explicit doesnt take away from her character it literally does not matter how people interpret a character u can disagree of course but to claim its reductive is a little dramatic when nothing fundamental is affected

[@ravenfrancis1476]

​@@Bratkartoffel16No it doesn't, you're just transphobic.

[@IsaiahSugar]

The flag does not make gwen trans, her story makes her trans She literally comes out to her father in the movie. her arc was being accepted by her father as spiderwoman. Its a metaphor for her being trans. This is a normal reading of the story

[@MegMew]

me personally i dont think gwen is trans but i think it's a great theory

[@alexfries350]

I mean by this logic, which I'm wholly agreeing with, she is trans. She's not transgender, but she had a heavy secret and had to come out. Like she follows the whole flow and by rights walked the same path. Only the thing she carried with in her is that she's a spiderwoman and not just a woman

[@MathasiaJ]

The great thing about the spider-man story archetype is that it fits really well with any kind of "other." That's kinda why miles morales got created in the first place, because the story of being a mixed race kid is pretty similar to the story of being spider-man, and you feel so different from the people around you because, well, you are different. Gwen's particular nuance of her spider-man archetype fits so perfectly with the trans experience and she has all these signs that show transness in her universe and her room. There was a lot of similar outcry in the comic fan community when people suggested that, "y'know, there should be a black Spider-Man. Being black in modern America feels pretty similarly isolating and it would be great to have some explicit representation." And now, Miles is one of the most popular Spider-People ever! So I'm holding out hope for Gwen to be confirmed as trans

[@rolarym_]

Trans as in hero identity, not gender

[@MathasiaJ]

@@RankaZer0 miles is a great story where being Spider-Man is directly related to his struggles being a mixed race kid, especially if you read some of his more recent comics. Spider-Man is an allegory for the "other," and in different contexts the "other" can be a bunch of different things. Race, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, religion, etc can all be treated as the "other" and the Spider-Man story concept serves as a vehicle of showing that.

[@lovelylesbian5135]

Their logic is so hilarious. There are only two races: white and *woke* Only two genders: man and *woke* Only cis and *woke* Only straight and *woke* Only abled bodied people and *woke* Hmm I think I'm noticing a trend 🤔

[@mochii813]

Damn I'm woke now because I need glasses lmao

[@natsume-hime2473]

The trend is that they're Nazis.

[@saraperpetua1093]

yeah

[@zacharie6750]

​@@mochii813There's only TWO TYPES OF EYE-HAVERS IN THIS WORLD: Normal eye havers and the WOKE, GLASSES-WEARIN' LEFT. ):

[@lizardman7718]

The way conservatives are so quick to dismiss the possibility of Gwen being trans not only shows how transphobic they are (which we already knew), but it also shows how bad they are at interpreting art. Their super myopic view of the world only allows them to take everything at face value. No imagination whatsoever. Also, the fact that they constantly reduce the argument down to “Gwen is trans because she has a trans flag in her room,” shows that they aren’t even trying to listen to the real reasons trans people relate to her character so much. So frustrating.

[@lyanna.dragonborn3433]

Ugh... they're so stupid, they need a character to literally spell it out for them that they are trans(or gay or anything not cis/het/christian/white) But as soon as it's being said directly they complain about movies "shoving it in their face". There is no winning with those hypocrites. Right-wingers and conservatives have no media literacy at all.

[@AD-dg3zz]

These conservatives are really out here outing themselves for having no media literacy whatsoever.

[@jeremyusreevu237]

But people have been using the flag in Gwen's room as an argument, though. What other arguments have people been using?

[@Ejb14q]

@@jeremyusreevu237 did you just not at least watch the first 30 mins of the video. Or did you just come here to argue in comment sections

[@jeremyusreevu237]

@King-xs4dq 1. As of writing that comment, I didn't watch the first 30 minutes, only because it was a really long video, and I was saving it for when I have more time. I love Jessie's content, and was always going to watch the video. 2. Yeah, some of those comments shown in the beginning were stupid. Like, "She's not trans because she's not", that's dumb. But like, what was wrong with the dude at 0:45? That's a completely logical argument. 3. Disel Patches made a great video articulating my point: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nl6Uq6t-qc-brcU 4. What, so I can't ask a simple question? Jeez.

[@corduroy799]

Funnily enough, I as a nonbinary person didn't even notice the trans flags in Gwen's room and on her dad's uniform but was able to relate to her storyline. Like you said, she doesn't need to be explicitly trans for this to be a trans storyline. I mean, come on y'all. Are we really going to deny the queer undertones of having to come out as a superhero to your parents and being rejected?? Or having to hide who you truly are in fear that it will separate you from the ones you love?? It's not even like transphobes didn't see it. The way people were proactively arguing that Gwen wasn't trans just shows how overt the association is. It appalls me that they have such a strong desire to deny trans people representation or connection with media.

[@bellarosethorne]

I mean, it's no different than we were told as we started to uncover our trans identities. If they don't want to see something, or they aren't expecting to see it, they're going to be remarkably good at missing every single clue. You can fly our flags, and people might still miss it. the sappho and her friend subreddit is itself a testament to existing in queerness, living a full, queer life... and them still not realising, not putting it together. Some of it, especially in movies like this though, is that they are, for lack of a better term, uneducated. They don't see the queer undertones, they don't see the explicitly queer story of a coming out, of a double life, of dealing with identity and scrutiny.. because they never dealt with it, because they were never made aware that these were queer experiences. Their only understanding of this story is through the lens of the life of superheroes. If hero stories are a normal person doing extraordinary things to save the day... superhero stories are people who do not fit the norm, doing the exact same thing. What sets superheroes apart from heroes, is being different, being unique, being *queer*.

[@totallynotacultleader]

Oh my god as a non binary lesbian I picked up on this. Especially in the intimate moments between the characters (Miles, and Gwen) and their parents - wanting so badly to share such an integral and core part of who they are to be seen and loved and accepted for their full selves by their parents, but it being absolutely terrifying to do so with no idea of how the consequences and reaction would truly be. Or even asking their parents, “do you really hate spiderpeople/spiderman?” When I was a kid, I would sometimes ask similar forms of question about queerness, as removed and subtly as I could. Or sitting at the dinner table while a parent is discussing the “gay/trans agenda” while you’re sitting right there hiding in plain sight. It is so validating to know that other queer people clearly saw and experienced what I was experiencing in watching this film (which I didn’t think I was the only one, but I hadn’t reached the online discussion around this yet! I just think it’s cool).

[@bee8017]

EXACTLY

[@Sephiroth144]

It synchs with coming out as any minority (trans, gay/bi, even like a different religion (or lack thereof)) where its presumed you were "normal" (i.e., could blend in). And that's be running in superhero circles since at least the OG X-Men.

[@saraperpetua1093]

uu

[@nius945]

''omg the narcissism of people seeing themselves as a character they resonate with, outrageous!''

[@devofficialchannel]

I feel like the moment the word "narcissism" became widely used, the original meaning just faded away. Then again, conservatives don't see meaning in words except as insults or to put down others and frame them (i.e. "groomers", "criminals", "mentally ill")

[@saraperpetua1093]

uu

[@Bratkartoffel16]

You can see yourself in a character that isnt of your exact race, gender or sexuality. Wanting desperalty to make her trans just makes you look like you need that to feel any relatability, and that would just be pathetic.

[@lyellCrookshanks]

​ @Bratkartoffel16 being that butthurt over people's headcanon that a fictional character isn't the same as theirs seems more pathetic tbh Edit: spelling and missed words

[@CharlotteSWeb-oh7ou]

@@Bratkartoffel16 Does this strawman you've constructed make you feel better about yourself? It's not desperation, it's narrative and theme based interpretation.

[@trueneutral8742]

Honestly when I heard about the trans flag thing in Spiderverse I assumed that the SpiderGwen universe’s Peter Parker was trans. A young boy getting bullied and treated as weak, turning to drastic measures to seek acceptance and the Stacy’s grief after the fact- it seemed a lot like a subtle trans story to me.

[@Vivigreeny25]

I’d like to think they’re both trans, and that’s why they were so close.

[@Juneberryknight]

I actually love that read for Peter Parker Lizard especially since some amphibians (not the same I know but still) can change sex characteristics

[@louzo5175]

yooo thats cool could do a good fanfic at least even if wasnt thought of before

[@CEPHALOPESSIMISM]

​@@JuneberryknightLizards are reptiles, not amphibians...?

[@Juneberryknight]

@@CEPHALOPESSIMISM yep I said that I was just pointing it out

[@quinnma]

what that lady said at 5:45 really just got under my skin... i couldn't of waited to transition until i turned 18 because i literally mightve not been alive at 18! i was suffering living as a girl so much i didn't want to live at all. that's not how anyone should have to feel. you cant just decide to be not be trans until you're 18. it shows such a lack of any kind of empathy or viewing us as real live human beings from people with her view point.

[@juliarangelr]

it’s like saying you can only be gay after 18 which is literally impossible

[@francookie9353]

I'm glad you got to transition before you were 18. My child psychologist said "let's wait until he's 18". My parents said "ok." And so I went through male puberty. It's still difficult to let go of that regret over 15 years later. You dodged a bullet, certainly 👍👍

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

​@@juliarangelrOr being straight or being cis for that matter.

[@juliarangelr]

@@charisma-hornum-fries yes but i’m bisexual and non binary so can’t relate lmao

[@toppersundquist]

Ugh. Pearl. I feel like she was just spawned fully-formed with a huge audience a month ago.

[@murmirr]

i always thought she was trans because of her (and her universe's) color palette. always just thought it was a cute headcanon. also, the fact that they say "spiderverse wasn't political" is hilarious. Did they just ignore Hobie's entire existence?

[@pisscvre69]

this is truely a metaphor for capitalism, life imtates art

[@murmirr]

@@pisscvre69 thank you pisscure69

[@CMGThePerson]

If there's one thing Grifters and Hobie share in common is that they both don't believe in consistency

[@yeethittter1285]

Hobie would so want us to protect trans kids...

[@murmirr]

@@yeethittter1285 hobie would want to protect everyone except fascist pieces of shit like republicans lmao

[@4ngiel0ver]

"The way she dresses isnt trans" I honestly laughed at that comment because one of the biggest forms of affirmation for trans people is the way they dress

[@xxxkueckxxx]

How does she dress trans?

[@virginiafernandez6846]

"Easier for who?" I see the Nimona trans parallel, but what came to my mind was bi erasure. The first thing I was told when asking about bisexuality was 'It's fine to be gay, but if you're bi ypu should stick to the opposite gender. It just easier.' Vervain.

[@nessa-parmentier]

Didn't think of that (being trans myself I resonated heavily with the trans coding of the story) but it's definitely a valid comparison too

[@pyromaniac2104]

Going to be honest (and this might just be my lack knowledge on the subject talking) I thought while watching Nimona that she/they were ment to be a non-binery/gender-fluid character/allegory because, and do please set me right if wrong here, I thought Trans, Non-Binary and genderfluid were their own... camps if you will Is all the above wrong? all of the above feels wrong... full disclosure I am cis and straight so if I'm wrong blame it on that

[@nessa-parmentier]

@@pyromaniac2104 basically, trans simply means your gender doesn't aligned with the one you were assigned at birth (which means non-binary people fall under the trans umbrella) Being genderfluid is kind of its own thing, but not really either, as you can sometimes be your gender assigned at birth, sometimes not, and (from the people who talked about it, I'm not genderfluid myself) some have like two or more "modes" they switch between, none of which is obligated to be the gender assigned at birth. Now if you go by definition, all of that group is transgender, but there's more to it than that. Most people commonly use "transgender" to say your gender is the opposite of what you were assigned at birth, which is more limited. So there are people (I don't know the proportion, I just know I've seen it quite a lot online) who refer to themselves as "trans non-binary" or add trans in front of their gender, because they had to, or want to, undergo a medical transition. (which can have its own problems by limiting the use of trans to medical transitions, but i won't dive into that) Add to that the fact that genderfluid people can do that too, and also identify (some of the time, which will depend on each individual) as non binary, they could be "all three at the same time" But generally, keep in mind that the terms you hear are not closed categories, there's often umbrella terms which sometimes have overlap.

[@pyromaniac2104]

@@nessa-parmentier thanks very much this was very informative and exactly what I was hoping for :-)

[@ChimeraLotietheBunny]

Relatable s a bi

[@TheLadyLiddell]

Note: none of those people complaining have said a word about Miles having a "BLM" pin. It's almost as if they're just chasing the latest scapegoat and don't actually care about people.

[@dontstealmycontentplease]

they realized they got way more backlash when being racist so they settled on discriminating on a different group of people

[@PKMNResearcherSkyler]

​@porter9494I'd say that it's pretty racist to make fun of a movement who's trying to fight for black lives to be recognized for their worth in the face of police violence

[@canyounot4814]

I definitely have seen ppl whining abt the pin too tho

[@pennyforyourthots]

​@porter9494according to Pew research center, it's currently at about 51% support, which is down from about 67%. Even if it's going down, that's still pretty popular. That being said, something being popular doesn't necessarily mean it's not good. The civil Rights movement was also very unpopular. Challenging the status quo tends to make you a lot of enemies. Also who is BLM scamming? It's a movement, not a singular organization. There are organizations called BLM, but they are not THE BLM.

[@mkgibertjr]

​@@canyounot4814Yeah I've definitely seen people complaining about the pin too

[@fizzymilk2246]

Hate that every time trans people are even vaguely alluded to it incites this much rage towards us, but at the same time I'm glad that little trans flag made so many transphobes upset. You don't put something like that in your movie without knowing exactly how those people are going to react to it, and I'm glad ATSV made it clear those people are not welcome (and that we are), even if it was in such a small way.

[@burntpapayaz232]

Nimona had quotes that hit me so hard, from "easy for who?" to "I don't know what's scarier. The fact that everyone in this kingdom want to run a sword through my heart, or the fact that sometimes I just want to let them." It really has been my favorite movie that I've seen this year. It brought up such mature subjects in an easy to digest way. From the brutality of systematic oppression, to suicide, to queer pain. I cried multiple times during this movie, just from the topics alone. That doesn't even touch on the incredible story in it. One other thing I loved about Nimona was the development of Nimona and Ballister's friendship. In a way it showed how people can be changed through work to accept others unlike them, but when someone brings up a small issue (The scroll) that person can instantly flip to physically attacking the person they were once friends with. It was such a refreshing movie, and I hope more directors can realize that this is the type of representation and discussion we want in movies.

[@saraperpetua1093]

uu

[@ArnLPs]

I can't believe how someone could miss the message of Nimona...like I did not think it was subtle. It was such an obvious metaphor...

[@fujoshipeanut5074]

I'm getting such strong second-hand embarrassment from the people laughing at the idea that Gwen is trans or that her character arc reflects the trans experience. Like they don't even understand the arguments. They don't look any further than the surface. They're laughing at the concept and I'm just face palming. It's so embarrassing

[@paigemosher8697]

​@NightTimeDay Hey, a prime example of an embarrassment of a human showing their ass to us. As if your response to mock the actual suffering of trans people and suggest their coping mechanisms are embarrassing to anyone but you is normal, then you're legit sick in the head and need to get off the internet and seek psychiatric help. YOUR response is not normal. YOU being hateful and vindictive to people who only want to exist in peace is not normal. YOU are the problem. Either fix yourself or never speak again.

[@stripedpolkadots8692]

@@NightTimeDay did you come to watch this video just to reply this on this one specific comment then? 😂😂 because THAT sure as hell isn’t normal

[@louzo5175]

ye i always get second hand embarasment just from looking at them while they bubble out their "arguments"

[@ladyredl3210]

They’re all ignorant and stupid. Comics have always been political, and being trans shouldn’t be political but you know that’s the world we live in now.

[@whitneym.9358]

It's all reminiscent of "LOL my dumbass English teacher asked me why this passage said the curtains are blue. Uhhh, because they're BLUE duh" memes. Media can only be interpreted at face value and anything that requires critical thinking is just making things up.

[@dgtor_official]

Nimona’s quote about the sword broke me. I watched it two weeks ago at the start of a “Christian Worldview” camp and sobbed because that’s how these people are. They LITERALLY are trained, taught, and believe that their survival, safety, and general well-being depends on squashing anything that refuses to fit inside those views. And that broke me. I leave this camp in the morning, and while I’ve had my beliefs challenged and made genuine friendships, I remain convinced and now KNOW these people view it as their calling to “drive a sword into the heart of anything different.”

[@jeremyusreevu237]

Wow. I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. I hope you're doing better.

[@gasterthemaster6490]

Not all Christians are like that. I say this as an LGBTQIA+ Christian myself.

[@dgtor_official]

@@gasterthemaster6490 I am as well but I’m still wrestling with reconciling my faith with that part of me

[@lmn977]

Hey, I'm a Christian too and I just wanna say how sorry I am that it's like this. It breaks my heart that LGBTQIA people are excluded and suppressed and horribly mistreated in the name of my faith. I can't imagine what it's like to have to try to reconcile those two parts of your identity, esp in this cultural climate. I admire you a lot

[@saraperpetua1093]

oh

[@JXAChambers]

I felt the climax. That feeling of wanting to die so badly because I have no place in the world, because I am so outside the norm. Not just my trans self, my gender fluid self, my questioning self, my raised in isolation self. All of it pushes me outside the norm. I've wanted to die more times than I would like to admit. A few weeks ago I came out at work as trans. A coworker began with, "But the suicide rate for trans people is so high" as if that's supposed to be a warning to me. I had to force myself not to punch him in the face. I managed to calmly explain that the suicide rate is high because of being rejected by society. It's the isolation and fear that causes it, not the fact we are who we are. I really want to thank Nimona for pointing this out. I hope others can see that too.

[@helloworlditskiwi]

I'm not trans, but I am non-binary with a younger trans brother (we're both adults) (we live apart). He hasn't watched it yet but I wish he would bc of how beautifully it encapsulated that feeling of "other.", idk.. I hope you're alright. I know that feeling well, and I hope you're looking after yourself

[@saraperpetua1093]

uu

[@DezmondFringe]

just reminded of how months ago i found my old emails complaining to my brother about my grandma's emails to me when i came out, and it was jarring becuz i did not remember the whole ordeal of her telling me shit like my life was going to be horrible etc. brought up r*pe. they set this shit up as if they're not part of the problem, and as if that's supposed to stop us anyway. i keep forgetting how i need to at some point set the record straight with my mum and brother that it's not like i flipped out unfairly at her like they kinda always thought. like it was known she rejected me, but it was seen as if my reaction back didn't help. but now i know some of what she said and it was absolutely terrible. and all i remember of my reaction back was sending a gif of the rock rolling his eyes and i said whatever back that i don't remember. all i have is paraphrased things of me telling my bro what she said. she has never reached out and came around. don't know if it was becuz i didn't just sit there and take it and stay perfectly "civil", but god forbid as a trans person, especially as a baby trans who was still vulnerable a decade ago, that you don't treat a cis person with kid gloves.

[@Nitram4392]

My brother once told me, that it doesn't matter what the creator of a piece of art intended, since everyone who consumes art, interprets it through their own life experiences. One can disagree with an interpretation, but it can never be inherently wrong.

[@Bratkartoffel16]

True. It only becomes a problem if you try to convince everyone that your interpretation has to be right, and hating them when they disagree. But fortunalely most people just enjoyed the movie and didnt try that, and its only a few people that do that wrong thing.

[@silverdragon4344]

Yeah Yeah.. we know... "but the bible said..." So tired of hearing that over and over again. After 20 years of "living the bible" I can say I'm a million times happier as a transwoman despite how terrifying things have gotten.

[@elisehalflight]

This is the stuff why i went from agnostic to pastafarian, maybe your god doesn't support it but mine is super cool with it

[@OldOneTooth]

Well the Bible does says people were created "male and female" in God's image not male or female and likens God to both a woman and mother as well as a male and father. So God probably gets being intersex or trans quite well.

[@andromidius]

The bible also said the correct method of cooking mana bread involved burning human poop. So you know, don't pick and choose Fundamentalists. The Bible literally tells you to scent your food with the scent of excrement - literally, God is telling you to eat shit. So go do it if the Bible means so much to you.

[@terpsidance.]

Far as I know the Bible doesn't say anything about being trans in the first place. It's much more upfront about it's disdain for mixing fabrics, yet I never see a single person bitching in a Target about the tshirts having polyester and cotton

[@Marinus_Calamari]

Well one of the perks of being raised by grizztian fundaloons is that I can bash people with the bible like the best of 'em. For some reason Christians don't like it when you return that favor to the. I even get the warm "love the sinner, not the sin" smile that almost, but not quite reaches the eyes, right. Surprise Godderfockers!

[@yarelruiz5992]

When I saw Across the Spiderverse I feel like the whole movie was a queer allegory of coming out and our experience of the fear to be expose.

[@FiniteMan1933]

That's usually the case with most superheroes when they have to reveal their identity it's not new

[@renatocorvaro6924]

@@FiniteMan1933 Yes, because most superheroes are super gay.

[@cactus2260]

​@@FiniteMan1933have you read the spiderman and deadpool comics? Have you heard the actors who play spiderman say they would be fine with a gay spiderman on a movie? Have you heard how writers describe the relationship between batman and the joker? Or seen the extremely homoerotic old batman movies?

[@RageOfBeef]

​@@FiniteMan1933 you do know a lot of heroes were created with the intent of being symbols of minorities, especially because the nerd space was a place that loads of closeted people hid in, like, batman and Robin were explicitly gay as hell in the original comics, it wasn't till later that he became an edgy anti hero for mass audience appeal, the x men to this day are an allegory for any and every oppressed minority, down to the politicians demonizing and calling the cast "mutants" and the attempts to illegalize their existence and "mutations"

[@M_M_ODonnell]

A lot of superhero narratives, even ones about cis het main characters, still end up being super queer-relatable for other reasons -- and some of the good ones lean into this and just embrace the commonalities as a way of inviting empathy.

[@andromedarainlight]

I really like your analysis of Nimona, particularly how you mention that when Nimona shape shifts, she isn't "pretending", she is that thing in that moment, because her identity is fluid and can't be put into just one box. I think it's also really profound how the one time in the film she really becomes something we would view as being truly monstrous, its when the system has beaten her down so much she can't be anything else anymore.

[@saraperpetua1093]

yeah

[@glimmerlarue7382]

Did You Know? Not all trans ppl "look" trans! That's kind of the point!

[@saraperpetua1093]

uu

[@Bratkartoffel16]

Yeah but its also not a point for ANY position. Its literally just a factual statement.

[@jmrabinez9254]

"Not all trans ppl "look" trans! That's kind of the point!" Sorry, but... What do you mean with that? I don't understand.

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

@@jmrabinez9254it probably means what a lot of these people think trans people look like, as “ugly”. The whole point of being trans is to look like the opposite gender or as androgynous as possible for gender non conforming or nonbinary people. I’m not very good at explaining, but that’s the best way I can explain it.

[@nathanielleon4163]

I also want to add to the trans reading of Gwen's plot, that it is a story about a rejected queer child who loses their literal home; and that she has a very specific relationship to her inability to return home. Not being able to go back is a major plot point for her. So I read her development as also brushing with the subject of homelessness amount queer youth.

[@MissSam]

the moment at 6:03, when the dude who says trans flag above someone's door is a subliminal message is revealed, and he's sitting in front of an American flag, and he has a Trump 46 shirt on... I don't know why, but it just got me. That's pure comedy. Also, thank you for the Nimona shout out, Jess! Just watched, cried, laughed, hoping to get some family members to watch it with me later.

[@JuliaZeeGreat]

The argument that Gwen "isn't Trans in the comics!" holds no weight. You're watching a movie about infinite universes. She isn't the same Gwen from the comics. If Peter Parker can come out with different hair colors, nationalities, even species in Peter Porker's case, why can't there be a universe in which Gwen is trans? Also, when is Spiders-Man going to show up? I demand Spiders-Man. Look him (them?) up.

[@zinkheroofyoutube8004]

I will never forgive you for introducing me to this Spider-Man

[@JuliaZeeGreat]

@@zinkheroofyoutube8004 You're welcome. 😁

[@miadietrich7347]

The species argument is spot on. People can accept a dinosaur spider man, a horse, a pig. But not a trans person? That's just how "alien" they view trans people.

[@smellysox1567]

So many gems of spider characters that haven't been seen yet. Hope there is a reason for that, e.g. these characters being outside Miguel's views. A shame many spiders shall live forever a cameo.

[@jobhighschoolofcrosscity8430]

It's Gwen from earth 45. She is, 100%, without a doubt, biologically female. It's infinite universes but they are specific. Every spider man you see cones from a specific universe with lots of comics themselves. Miles comes from 1610, peter from 616, miguel from 957 etc. Yes there are infinite universes but the characters we are shown all cone from preestablished universes with their own story

[@saraa.4295]

Honestly, being able to project your strugglesand experiences unto someone who may not be canonically "like you" is WHY we value fiction. It proves empathy and shows how we all are connected. So you should NEVER have to justify why you connect to someone.

[@CobbleCouch]

As a trans man and as an Ukrainian, if I saw someone with huge Ukrainian flag over their own room door, I would absolutely assume they're Ukrainian🇺🇦 Upd clarification for people in the comments: there's a huge difference between putting a flag in a public space and putting a flag in your own privat, personal space, like your own living room, where the most attendant person is just yourself I'm really grateful for the support that Ukraine gets (Thank you! That is really life saving right now), and I'm aware of other countries having our flag in public spaces as a sign of support (as I spend a year as a war refugee in Poland, and also I've heard a lot of stories from other Ukrainians), however it's still quite a difference between the same flags in public and personal space (even comparing putting a flag in your own yard, or even at your window, where other people, strangers even might see it, to putting a flag over the your own room door) And, as I wrote in the first place, even in such a situation I would assume someone's identity, but not be sure, until person themselves clarifies this I hope that helped to eliminate confusion!😅 And sorry for any weird wording, I haven't sleep normally in days, as from time to time I spend nights sleeples in bombing shelter, and also English obviously isn't my first language 🥲 Бережіть себе❤️✨

[@c.w.8200]

As an Austrian I can tell you for most of 2022 I saw more Ukrainian flags in Vienna than Austrian ones and I'm sure that's true for many European countries, there's a bit of a disconnect happening.

[@Gurianthe]

there's someone in my town (in Costa Rica) w a Ukrainian flag on their balcony, next to a flag for our far right political party I have no idea what to make of it

[@hibachimk240]

​@@Gurianthe I'd say someone can be far-right AND against Putin's Russia ? Or they could be on far-right not realizing what it actually stands for. There's lots of people like that.

[@TheDCbiz]

If Putin had a Ukraine flag in his office???

[@sol848]

Correlation doesn't equal causation, and the presence of a flag does not equate identify. I'm cis het, but I have a lgbtqia+ flag in my office as a symbol that it is a safe and inclusive space.

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

I'm not trans but man does this video hit home for a different reason. I am autistic and like 90+%of this applies very well to autistic masking and autistic acceptance just as well as trans and gender nonconforming people.

[@Vivigreeny25]

I absolutely read Nimona as neurodivergent too. She’s just… like no way that girl is neurotypical. I’m not autistic but I have adhd and I can’t even explain but something about the essence of her being is relatable in a way that I recognize as my experiences as an ND person.

[@JacobODell_]

I'm autistic and felt exactly the same way

[@recharukua]

As a former law enforcement officer who trusted absolutely in the system and found the system wasn't there to support me when I needed it, Ballister's story was painfully relatable.

[@WillTuliv]

Reminds me of every time someone says they identify with a character they see as autistic. So many people arguing so angrily.. "The character never says they're autistic" or "Just because they're anxious and shy doesn't mean they're autistic" like shut. up. People are allowed to identify with characters in ways that you don't!

[@saraperpetua1093]

uu

[@mintyhippo8125]

I think it is completely fair to relate to a character and see your own traits in them - media is more impactful when you relate to it. However, my dislike is when a content creator (journalist, random tiktoker, etc.) will claim “for sure” that the character is autistic, etc. I think that is counterproductive. Representing many kinds of people is very important (plus, makes stories more interesting!), but labeling someone as 100% a certain trait makes it seem like anyone who doesn’t have autism, etc. is not allowed to relate to them now because “they couldn’t understand if they aren’t autistic, etc.” I know not everyone does that (and I know that claiming someone is 100% not autistic, etc. essentially does the same thing). The thing is, the more people a character can resonate with, the more popular they are… I get the feeling of “finally! A character like me!” But, if the creator made it ambiguous on purpose, that is so many people can relate.

[@jinniedoesstuff367]

in the last couple of months the anti-trans hate that has been growing is genuinely terrifying :( I got into a discussion with one of my very close friends about gwen being trans and was completely shocked and heartbroken when she said “ew I cannot believe they made gwen a man”… i’m currently closeted and it just made me sick to my stomach I don’t even know what to do anymore, I NEVER thought she held those kind of beliefs… this video was amazing and i’m glad that I can still interact with the community through content like this ❤️

[@Aeiouaaaaaaaaa]

Oh no I’m so sorry that happened to you 😭 It can be so so frustrating and isolating when those comments come from people you love, but you deserve to be seen and understood on your own terms and I sincerely hope can find people who will listen.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

All the support comrade. But many of my queer friends are finding ways to leave. The camps ARE coming.

[@bamb3928]

I’m a lesbian and my friend turned out to be homophob!c. I was still in the closet at the time. I distanced myself and eventually ended the friendship a couple of years later. You deserve to have friends who love and support you. Even if you are still in the closet, you shouldn’t surround yourself with people like her. I’m sorry if this comes across as a harsh truth, but it is the truth. You need to look after yourself before anyone else. Your happiness and mental health is important.❤🏳️‍🌈

[@penrilfake]

I'm really sorry. I know it doesn't help right now, but you'll eventually find people who love you and accept you. It's fine to leave those who don't in the past, but also, maybe, it's entirely possible that they'll change and grow as you yourself grow into your journey of identity and discovery. Speaking from experience here as a queer dude living in a very very conservative state in Latin America. Some friends I've left in the past as they failed to open their minds, some grew with me, while some others admitted that they grew *because* of me. It's not all awful, I promise you.

[@paigemosher8697]

​@NightTimeDay Buddy, the only terminally online cultist here is you. Showing genuine support for someone online is not "contributing to a cult-like mentality", that's just you spreading fear and hate through buzzwords to make people you hate for no reason shut up about their very real issues. They're doing nothing wrong. You need help and to be more tolerant of people with real problems. Not the problems you've invented for them to try to force to be the people you misguidedly think they should be, but actual problems that prevent them from being happy and loved because antis want to rip everything precious to them away. People like you want them to have no one to turn to so that they're forced to either conform to your backwards standards or die. It's not going to happen, so accept that and move on with your life.

[@CMGThePerson]

Nimona in an Article: Aww... such a tragic tale of Gender Dysphoria Nimona in the Film: I will destroy everything for fun

[@miraculous_lady_noir2179]

Well that's the point, right? She's such a bouncy, bombastic, loud, fun character, but she has to deal with all this shit because she's different. Just like so many people from minorities in real life.

[@CMGThePerson]

@@miraculous_lady_noir2179 It's a really good point

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

Why not both?

[@miguelsandoval4926]

based Nimona

[@GiggyFortexFilms]

as a non-binary person i resonate deeply with Nimona

[@hylia9067]

"Just because she has a trans flag doesn't mean she's trans?" - Didn't those same people totally lose their mind over a super small role in Pixar's "Turning Red" because of a t-shirt?

[@alexcrazyart6522]

Haven't seen red, what did the t-shirt say?

[@hylia9067]

@@alexcrazyart6522 Had a trans flag on it. The person was often read as male recommending tampons, I guess that's why they lost their minds more. Or because of the film's general reception being not as high as with ATSV.

[@DRAMATICJELLYBEAN]

⁠@@hylia9067I thought it was the newer Big Hero Six movie not Turning Red that it was in? I think the scene was Baymax was buying tampons and asked a bunch of people for recommendations and the trans guy was one of them? Not to be rude just fact checking:)

[@hylia9067]

@@DRAMATICJELLYBEAN Nah you're right, the transgender tampon thing was in Big Hero 6, Turning Red also had another tampon thing I mixed it up with :D

[@remitiras]

Bal telling Nimona "it'll be easier if you were a girl, not everyone is as accepting as me" really hit close to home. My parents"accepted" me when I came out as non-binary, but then proceeded to tell me it should be something for myself only, that i don't need to show it or use different pronouns or anything. They refused to change the way they see me, tried to make me hide who I was. And then later in the movie when she said "you changed the way you see me". That's such an important line for me. Because this is the key to accept trans people. You don't need to learn our new pronouns and name, you need to actually change the way you see us. It's not hard for you to remember your frien's new baby sibling is a girl even tho when you first saw her you thought she was a boy, because when your friend corrected you you changed the way you see that baby. You do the same for people's pets all the time, and for cis adult people. But when it's trans people, it suddenly becomes hard to "remember". My parents refused to change the way they see me. My friends keep forgetting my agab and get confused when strangers misgender me. This includes people who knew me before I socially transitioned and people who met me afterwards. I still wish there was a non-binary person's story that included both those stuff and them actually being explicitly non-binary (not necessarily use they/them pronouns, but actually express they're not cis), but I really really appreciate Nimona's messages.

[@rainestorm6029]

There's an inherent threat to the words "not everyone is as accepting as me." It makes it seem like they won't be accepting eventually

[@MakoDap]

Nimona is my fav movie of the year. I am a Trans Woman BTW. I am friends with some of the film makers from that movie and know all about the struggles they had trying to make it. They were very passionate about how they wanted to represent the LGBTQ community and specifically the Trans Experience. Some reached out to me and wanted to make sure I was cool with the movie - and I very much am :)

[@krell.1415]

Same, I am friends with so many trans women who are in love with this movie

[@jeremyusreevu237]

Mine is Fool's Paradise. Easily one of the most underrated films of the year!

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

That review is enough for me. I'm definitely going to watch it.

[@PKMNResearcherSkyler]

I'm a trans guy and Nimona is my favorite movie, not just of the year, but ever. Having a story where the queerness, and the transness, was woven into the very fabric of the movie spoke to me on a level no movie has done before

[@stxrstruck6755]

I watched Nimona earlier today. Being transmasc myself I literally cried like a baby.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

As a genderfluid femme non-girl, Nimona spoke to me in ways I have never experienced before. It's so fucking powerful, feeling fully represented in that for the first time ever.

[@chantelscott3968]

I am also that but maybe a little less femme, ive never felt so seen by media and damn did that hit emotionally deep

[@louzo5175]

agender femm presenting and SAME nimona is everything :D

[@MrBleuskyz]

Gwen’s story is absolutely so well written that it can be seen on a literal level as revealing a secret superhero identity, and ALSO a secret trans identity. I do headcanon that some of the spider people are trans. Miles, Peter B and Gwen, they just scream trans to me lol. But I also don’t hate people who say she or the other spider ppl aren’t. The bottom line is, if you think Gwen is an ally or trans, the movie is still supporting trans ppl so

[@saraperpetua1093]

yeah

[@Bratkartoffel16]

I personally have more reason to believe she isnt trans. I think she could an ally, or just that some artist put the trans flag into the film and it doesnt really "exist" for the characters in it. I actually read a pretty good article about the whole thing, and it made the point that nobody in the films was trans but that you could find transness in everyones storys.

[@virginiecortes]

Antiwoke people could argue that "well yeah, she just wants to fit in, but we all want to fit in, that's not exclusive for trans people, and can't be a definitive trait" It's almost like... Trans people... Are... People... Too??? 😮😮😮

[@Rampala]

Honestly, it just makes me sad how many people don't know what an allegory is. Or, you know, that art is almost always open to multiple interpretations and none if them are actually incorrect.

[@terpsidance.]

Except for the ones that try to interpret these kinds of movies as conservative.

[@CloneCaptainRex7567]

@@terpsidance. Ye, like interpreting Hobie as anything even slightly to the right...like even a Democrat, straight up wrong.

[@shadowldrago]

@@CloneCaptainRex7567 Isn't Hobie's whole shtick hating fascists and doing his level best to kick their asses whenever he has a chance?

[@moonlitmortician6694]

“Can the internet just be cool about trans issues for one second” Jessie, that internet can’t be cool, period. Case in point, this comment section.

[@hegyak]

I am chill. But, even I get a little, Hot, under the collar now and then. Mostly when I need to call out Theists ESPECIALLY Christians when they try and be like Obi Wan and take the "Moral" high ground.

[@mkgibertjr]

Ehhhh I've definitely been in many comment sections where people were pretty chill. Unfortunately human rights are controversial and controversy create drama and anti-chillness.

[@knuckles543]

@@mkgibertjr human rights are controversial to the corrupted and evil, and only the corrupted and evil to everyone else it's a no brainer because we aren't predicated on excluding blocs from society to maintain power i learnt this at age 5, because no one at school was allowed to explain to me what a transvestite was (my mum was watching the comedian Eddie Izzard, known for their flamboyance and dressing up as women, and i asked ''why does he do that?'' i got more from my mum than school on this, because in the UK we had section 28 on (no public info on homosexuality, this was extended to the entire community, all a a result of thatcherist puritanism and good old fashioned ''othering'' of a minority) this was also concerning because at the age of 7 (still under S-28) i realised i was what i would later know to be trans (i knew before i had a proper word for it and long before section 28 was lifted) and the country is STILL to this day firmly in the ''fuck em over'' category. in October NHS GP's got new guidance that encourages them to not diagnose G.Dysphoria and try literally everything else beforehand, including ''trying not to be trans'' (not the exact wording, but to that effect) it's like telling the X-men ''have you tried...not being a mutant?'' IMPOSSIBLE

[@felixhenson9926]

The transness of Nimona is extremely important but I think there could be an alternate reading you could view the film through. When you were talking about how Nimona's pain comes not from her transness but from society's rejection of her and constant oppression of people like her, it reminded me of the social model of disability. I'm a trans, non-binary, bisexual and multiply disabled person whose academic interest is in disability justice. The social model of disability says that the problem is not disabled bodyminds, but society being built around only one specific kind of bodymind and oppression of those that diverge from that. Given that I think there could be an alternate neurodivergent reading of Nimona. As someone living alongside chronic pain whose mobility is limited by that I both walk with a stick, without a stick, and with a wheelchair. When I'm in public I am incredibly aware that society sees a person in a wheelchair as fixed to that chair and if i truly moved out of that chair and was able to move in the way my body actually feels able and good doing I risk online harassment, losing my benefits, social ostracisation and abuse, but importantly I never risk medical backlash because doctors actually know this is normal. At the same time when I exist as a wheelchair user every single day I get rejected and ostracised by the architecture of society, I feel rejected, oppressed, frustrated, and frankly deeply relate to Nimona in that way. So yeah, that's another lens you could see the film through.

[@saraperpetua1093]

uu

[@CindersSpot]

Yeah, that's what I saw too

[@TreeHairedGingerAle]

As a cishet woman, it would delight me if the creators went ahead and confirmed that Gwen is trans. Mainly because she reminds me of other trans women I have met, who are frankly just as awesome as Gwen is.

[@jgcoverkknot5701]

My personal trans coded confort character is Rocket Raccoon. Rocket's portrayal as a social outcast strikes a chord with me, but there’s something more than that. I often find myself feeling disconnected from the people around me, struggling to fit into societal norms and expectations. Rocket's alienation from society serves as a reflection of my own experiences as a social outcast. However, it isn’t just that I don’t fit in because I don’t want to, it’s because I have been told to mould myself into something I am not from birth. Rocket wasn't born, he was made. He didn't get to choose how people would perceive him, that choice was made for him. Rocket is constantly shown in media to be broken or scarred, and that this is something that should evoke pity out of the audience. In the first Guardians of the Galaxy movie we see a scene where Rocket's back is exposed, showing metal bits embedded into his skin, probably to hold him together. This isn't a modification Rocket chose for himself, his cruel creator chose it for him. I experience this every single day. I am stuck in a body I didn’t choose for myself. Rocket is verbally abused constantly since the very moment we meet him. He is called creepy, beast, weird, and many many other names meant to degrade him. Even his friends constantly call him these things. Even if people don’t tell me these things, I can see it. In the language I am referred to in, in the ways people look at me, just like the way Chris Pratt’s character looks at Rocket’s ‘disfigured’ back. I am not natural. I am not normal. This is not something I can change, to even try to ignore it is a death sentence, it’s to kill a part of me and walk around with the shrapnel stabbing at me. I am forced to be who I am in a world that considers the very idea disgusting, or to turn myself inside out trying not to be that way. If Rocket's journey is to have a happy ending, everything that is crucial to society, both fictional and in the real world, would have to be torn down.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

Rocket is absolutely a nonbinary trash babe and we stan

[@user-el9xq9qt2y]

I really love this read on Rocket. Your take on the character is why queer head canon is so important. When people refuse to let us tell our own story, we can still have our stories told in ways that the creators have not intended it to be. It's make their stories even deeper, richer, and appealing to more people.

[@jeremyusreevu237]

The Owl House is easily one of the best examples of LGBTQ representation. It's incredibly creative, cool, funny, likable, and Lumity is one of the most adorable things ever!

[@FabbrizioPlays]

One major problem, that I don't really consider the show's own fault but is a problem nonetheless - is that Raine being nonbinary is subtle enough for some people to just completely miss if they're not part of the online discourse. Their pronouns are used just rarely enough that it's very easy for someone who is well-meaning but not active in LGBTQ spaces to not pick up on it at all and accidentally misgender them. Normally I like when representation is subtle, as it does a better job normalizing us, but in the current climate, being so subtle that many viewers are completely unaware representation even happened, can make the situation tricky. Even if subtlety is good, the point is still to be seen. And the reason I don't blame the show, is because I'm betting Disney interfered a bit. The pronouns can be changed in some foreign language releases, and other foreign languages gendered pronouns don't even exist, so they probably had an agreement to simply *not actually have a conversation about that*. I would put money on that. But the end result is still that the people who need to be made aware, are completely oblivious.

[@lizardman7718]

Hi Jeremy

[@oliviaconstanzewoodward-wh7361]

people who think this only watch children's television, and so have not seen much representation.

[@jeremyusreevu237]

@@FabbrizioPlays That's completely fair.

[@jeremyusreevu237]

@@lizardman7718 Hello.

[@sk33b07]

Even if she's not trans but she's still an ally

[@mistydragonfan1008]

AMEN! Like even if she isn't trans (she probably is tho) yall be acting like it would ruin her character/be transphobic 💀

[@pinhe4d321]

@@mistydragonfan1008 No, but we don't want propaganda.

[@felixhonikker4210]

One of the amazing things that Nimona reconciles with (besides, you know, "fuck the system," which is already pretty awesome, and I could go on and on about how like their portrayal of Nimona not pretending to be polite and not only being cool with but loving the idea of tearing it down is really refreshing, depicting a PROTAGONIST who doesn't care about the system even remotely while ensuring she isn't wrong for that is so great) is severe disillusionment, rage, and grief. I feel like this video put into words an experience of my own and it was so satisfying to hear everything be pointed out, as I trick myself every single day into thinking I'm the only one who feels that way, that "even among liberals, even among queer people, even among trans people, I'm an extremist and a monster." What many stories fail to tell is how much it hurts to live in a system like this. I never thought about it was said here, but it makes so much sense to me that a majority of trans suffering comes from systems, not from inside. If we lived in a system where we were no othered so severely, only some of us would experience pain, and even then, it's something that could much more easily dealt with. And this made me realize that one of the reasons I've felt so "othered" is that my grief and pain doesn't mostly come from individuals around me or even from myself. Yes, I am sad that I can't tell my dad I'm trans because I know he wouldn't accept that part of me. Yes, hearing transphobic jokes at school made me upset. Yes, I get dysphoria sometimes. But that's not what's made me suffer so much every day. It's knowing that the system has inherently failed me, and that I was indoctintrated into it, and even fought vehemently for it. It's knowing that the people in charge wave away children's lives by creating bills and never having to reconcile with all the lives they've taken, nor will that ever happen. It's knowing is that this society isn't built to work for me, or for anyone except for those at the very top, and that it feeds off of suffering, and that for thinking so, I'm an extremist, even to friends or people I look up to. That everyone thinks and treats it like it's normal despite being so obviously awful and horrific to the point where they resort to othering when I suggest that it's horrible. That my experience, that my extreme rage and grief for being tricked and taken advantage of in a world that has never and will never care about me or anyone else they step on, is the main source of my suffering as a trans person. And I guess that makes me feel like my suffering is less real somehow. Like... I need to have someone disown me or have intense dysphoria all the time in order to be validated in my suffering as a trans person. And those are real issues, don't get me wrong, but they are not what makes someone trans. And I'm angry. Half the time, I just want the whole world to burn down. Half the time, I want those people at the top to die. And I know that I'd be seen as a monster for feeling that way. Having that anger embodied in a Nimona who was confident and open about how she wanted the world (system) to burn was so refreshing to me. My mom sent this to me a few days ago. And it was so baffling to me how far she'd come from being an evangelical to understanding and agreeing with this video enough to share it with me. I'm really proud of her, and it makes me really happy that this is the kind of stuff she's seeing regarding trans people. I came out to her a day after she sent this to me (not because of the video, I actually had forgotten about it, so it was more of a coincidence) and she took it well.

[@Sentientmatter8]

Lol how does showing romantic interest in Miles (or anyone else) preclude Gwen from being trans!? 😂

[@KayKayBayForever]

I know!! That struck me. It’s completely unrelated.

[@uniquenewyork3325]

And on top of that there’s literally no way to prove that she hadn't been trans the whole time, these creeps just can't believe a trans character could be designed as passing without saying every 5 seconds that they're trans

[@bumfricker2487]

via at least two false premises: * “Miles is straight” (not even remotely suggested by the films) * “straight men aren’t attracted to trans women” (hoo boy are they in for a shocker) basically the very common intersection of homo- and transphobia

[@salmonandsoup]

Because they cannot imagine that sexuality and gender identity are two separate things; they consider all gender non-conforming, transgender, and nonbinary existences to be sexual perversions, because that's the only way they can imagine someone feeling that way. Sexuality and gender identity may be braided in the same rope, but they're two separate strands that don't merge.

[@KayKayBayForever]

@@bumfricker2487 Exactly!!

[@ametrinefirebird7125]

The colour coding was one thing, but when I heard her talk about being someone and not being able to be yourself infront of who you love most or whatever, I was like, this is a total allegory for the trans youth expirience! So no the character doesn't need to be trans, but her story definitely is and I don't think the hints could be any more clear. I could go on, but I don't think my reading of things is invalid or ruins how other people see the movie. Art is what you get out of it. I don't need to throw away what I got out of the movie personally just to spare the feelings of people who didn't. Okay, I'm gonna watch the video now, lol

[@ametrinefirebird7125]

Also, by it being allegorical, trans women aaand trans men can identify with her story. That is broader than if she was just flat out mtf or ftm. It can also resonate with other queer or nb people. It felt special when I was in the theater with friends and I felt like the movie was connecting with me and silently telling me alone a bonus story that my friends might not have even noticed. But yeah. The actual character doesn't have to be trans for us to feel represented in a story.

[@melodybeats2553]

My siblings and aunt found Nomina and had me watch it saying "I see you in her" and they were right. I watched this movie and I saw myself. Also the animation for this show is so pretty.

[@venuslove-i1v]

None of them seem to answer the question: why would a cop have a trans flag randomly on his uniform? If he was just an ally of LGBTQ+ people he'd have the general rainbow flag. But the fact that he has that flag on him and she has a "protect trans kids" flag in her room is enough evidence to pretty much believe she could possibly be transgender. I've had these very conversations with people regards to other queer characters where a couple was clearly married with kids, even calling each other "honey", yet queerphobic "fans" kept trying to argue that they are just friends and them calling each other "honey" is what women do to friends....lol It was insane. I'm not even the type to see queer context as easily in anything, but when it's right in your face it's hard to deny.

[@denysvision]

Once again the artist already debunk taht fact and the dad did not have the an trans flag on his uniform, and gwen poster only confirms she is an ally of trans people, not that she is trans, is not that people hate trans people, is that people have issue when you make existent characters gay without any story reason other than "representation", and no i do not hate trans people, in fact i suport it as long as is not shothorn on our faces, just make new characters that happends to be trans

[@venuslove-i1v]

@@denysvision That doesn't mean there isn't some clear inspiration from the trans community on the character. Furthermore, define "shoehorn". Half the time movies shoehorn straight people and cis people where it doesn't belong. What is the difference?

[@YINSED5192]

People really underestimate the importance of this kind of substantial subtext and representation in animation. Not just in relation to the next generation and no longer forcing LGBTQ stories to be taboo, but also in showcasing how this kind of nuance doesn't need to be exclusive to one medium of filmmaking that has been deemed inferior to live action by many people. Animation is just as capable of tackling real-world topics in a way that's effective for both kids and adults. Most of the media you discuss in this video has played a major role in helping me have a better understanding of it myself. Excellent video!

[@Greenvenus_]

I love the idea of Gwen being a trans woman. But I also love even more how if it is true.. it’s not the focus of her story. Her story is inherently trans-coded; though at the same time.. Gwen is Gwen. She can be an amazing trans woman without it being the focus. The story beats are trans AND they are a Spider-Person’s story beats. Amazing video as always ❤ -a gender questioning teen

[@juliarangelr]

I also like the idea of the double coming out thing. First as trans, which her father maybe accepted, and then as spider gwen. Reminds me of the gender+sexuality coming outs that rarely ever come at the same tine

[@FiniteMan1933]

That's more less how super heroes work like revealing your true self or whatever but ye no Gwen isn't trans, Gwen's world is just an homage to the original comic

[@FiniteMan1933]

​@@juliarangelrGwen isn't trans though, why can't a character be an allie without also being trans?

[@Greenvenus_]

@@FiniteMan1933 That’s how you interpret that and it’s valid too. It’s a fictional story and people can take many subtexts from a single story. Yeah, it’s a super hero story. I get it. I love super heroes a lot and I understand the story. But it’s okay if someone gets something else from a story and *you* don’t get the same thing. We’re all just trying to have fun. I ain’t gonna change your mind and I’m not trying to. We can agree to disagree. (And a side note, ofc people can be allies. But a problem with films is that unless a story is queer centric. You don’t get a lot of good rep besides ha ha. It’s a head cannon because people see themselves in a character and they don’t have a lot of good rep. It’s not hurting anyone)

[@juliarangelr]

@@FiniteMan1933 they can! it’s just the main comment here said “if it is true”, so i’m going with that that’s why i said “i like the IDEA of the double coming out thing” i don’t think that we can say for sure that she is or isn’t trans with the information we have right now

[@bellabluesteinpatchin9439]

Speaking as a cis straight woman, I feel like stories like Nimona are so vital for those of us not part of the queer community to help us understand and empathize with the trans - or really many 'other' - experiences. As others have said, it's cool if Gwen is trans or an ally or anything else, but often times when something is left up to the viewer to interpret, most interpret it as the 'default', the 'normal'. Because Nimona's 'otherness' is so integrally woven into the fabric of the story, there's really no pretending like it doesn't exist, no way to misinterpret it or cut it out of the story. It's a movie I can show to my kids and help them build empathy and understanding that while not all people may be like them, all people are valid and valuable simply by the virtue of being people.

[@saraperpetua1093]

yeah

[@senittoaoflightning4404]

Wait did one of the comments use Gwen's romantic interest in Miles as an argument against her being trans? That's not how being trans works, we can still be romantically interested in people.

[@antimony003]

Hi Jessie, I really enjoyed the video! One thing I wanted to comment on is that, before Gwen is pushed out of the Spider Society and forms her own team/community, she actively works to uphold their white patriarchal structure. Notice how she joins the chase against Miles. She ultimately comes to her senses however its a good metaphor on how many queer and trans people lean into their white privilege and uphold white supremacy against racialized queer & trans people, particular Black folks. We need to be working together to dismantle this rampant racism along with transphobia within our communities and our societies.

[@legometaworld2728]

I would appreciate more information and specifics about this phenomenon, sadly I can’t always tell when racism is present and being unknowingly bigoted is one of my biggest fears. I’m aware that queer BIPOC are treated worse than queer whites (even beyond the general racism towards BIPOC regardless of sexuality/gender) but I don’t know much more beyond that. As a queer person, I generally know when to recognize and call out homophobia and transphobia, but as a white person I can’t always recognize racism so I’d appreciate further insight so I can ensure that I’m fighting against all forms of hate and so I can avoid unknowingly perpetuating them myself. In any case, I believe that this phenomenon simply lies in people being white rather than being white and queer specifically, as I have seen a *much* higher proportion of blatantly racist cishet whites than queer whites.

[@catmungandr]

I can buy Gwen's dad having a pride flag on his uniform... But only because his entire arc is basically realising that being a cop is completely incompatible with supporting Gwen in her identity.

[@ilikebread757]

My mom didn't let me go see Into the Spider-Verse for my birthday because it "promotes children mutilating their bodies". I'm never coming out.

[@florence7064]

Dang. Hope you will find a better family

[@ogpandamonium]

I saw someone saying "gwen's story isn't a trans story. It's a story about relationships that everyone can relate to and see in their own way." And I'm thinking, "you literally said everone can realte to and see in their own way but are saying that trans people can't?"

[@saraperpetua1093]

yes!

[@nathanielmonroe3057]

I hate the way this trend reflects such egregious media illiteracy. People engage with the work as if it were real life, not as a literal culmination of a ton of decisions made by the creators. Only in that frame does our comedian Ben Shapiro’s critique make any sense. Fabulous video as always. Really gets to the heart of so much I find maddening about the way we engage with representation.

[@hibachimk240]

I feel dumb for having dissed the trans Spider Gwen discourse as unbased wishful thinking now. I didn't saw the few frames of flags here and there and while I got the identity theme, I missed the specific framing of it. It's totally my fault for not paying attention. Thank you Jessie for pointing it the way you did, I needed that.

[@Owesomasaurus]

Being willing to evolve and change is a mark of good character. Kudos. We're socialised into anti-gay, anti-trans habitus just by living in the societies we do. Being willing to listen to people with different life experiences and take them seriously is commendable.

[@TurbhoeHDRemix]

The whole Nimona being a trans allegory hits so much harder after having actually been called a monster by someone I was close friends with because I was a trans woman. I shouted at him a bit, we argued, but he ultimately did understand.

[@RenTheBarbarian]

“Peter Parker is the only REAL Spider-person” yeah well Peter Parker is a trans man too. And he’s bi. And Jewish. So there.

[@anname7373]

He's trans?

[@landmindssoul4636]

?

[@mzaite]

The term you were looking for all video was: Illiterate. Sure they can read. But we live in a world of proud illiteracy.

[@magicrainbowkitties1023]

Bianca Del Rio is quaking

[@HiBuddyyyyyy]

Media illiteracy are the words for not being able to read into that I think.

[@mzaite]

@@magicrainbowkitties1023 who?

[@mzaite]

@@HiBuddyyyyyy That tends these days to mostly be a term applied to info gathering like knowing what is or isn't a bullshit fake news product etc.... The failure to comprehend the basic concepts of literature, regardless of the text format feels much more like Capital "I" Illiteracy.

[@magicrainbowkitties1023]

@@mzaite Drag queen. Google is your friend.

[@willowberecki]

A lot of people seem to really not like it when people read a character as trans. I saw this happen a lot in the genshin fandom, too, where a character was headcanoned by quite a few people to be trans, as his story resonanted with them, and although I'm not sure if I share the headcanon, I definitely see the parallels. Its just so disheartening to see people immediately jumping into the conversation to say "no, you're wrong, this character can't be trans" when someone even MENTIONS that they might think that

[@bumfricker2487]

never discount the percentage of the backlash coming from straight cis men terrified a femme-presenting character they like being trans would “make them gay”

[@louzo5175]

its so childish that they "nu uh" it away like a 4y,o. playing cars

[@sst4rscr34m]

i need to confess something. i discovered today i was trans. congrats to gwen stacy on turnin me gay!!!! /hj or on a serious note bc of gwen and this whole thing i started to dwelve into this topic more and more.... and today i just realized that im definitely trans. like straight up. so genuine thanks to sony for adding the trans ally flag into gwen's room, genuine thanks to youtube for recommending me this video one day and very big, genuine thanks to you, jessie, for posting this vid for people to see, talk and explore. thank you

[@warandpoetry9542]

I’m not saying Gwen is trans, but what I am saying is that she has the same shoe size as Hobie

[@Hammerreborn]

I really need to see Across the Spiderverse. Loved Nimona and seeing all my Changeling shapeshifter power fantasies come to life and ripping it all down. The sword scene was heartbreaking and the movie does such a good job of building up how someone can be pushed to that through repeated subjugation. I think a lot can also be said on how the white cis gay man repeatedly supports the systems even when it’s flaws and oppression are pointed out by even their minority partner.

[@alsolii]

this is literally me right now LOL. loved nimona and wondering what jesse is going to say about it, but i gotta see that spider movie first

[@elerielouie3160]

Wasn't Ambrosius asian in the film?

[@ThePorpoisepower]

@@elerielouie3160 Maybe I was picking up on him being super blonde, but that doesn't really mean anything. I think his actor is.

[@Hammerreborn]

@@elerielouie3160 maybe? I would certainly admit I could be wrong on that, but even if it’s true, I think the overall point in that he was was firmly part of the ruling order, and upheld that even given all his doubts and discomfort with going against his partner. White or Asian he was still noble-born and in a place of privilege.

[@artisticaperture846]

@@Hammerrebornambrosius is east Asian full stop. The character designers based his appearance on his voice actor who’s Korean American. And his place as a privileged prodigy who has the skills to back up his station unlike the bully knight character, is, at least to me as someone who is East Asian, very clearly an allegory for the myth of the model minority. He’s worked his ass off yes, but he’s also been someone who’s greatly benefited by his family’s connections, like many East Asians living in the west typically are. But the system still ultimately turns on him once he’s outlived his usefulness.

[@longshank59]

TY Jesse this was so good. As a Boomer Trans Woman when I realized I was Trans they didn't have a word for us we do live and survive we find people who r like us and validate who we r. Made a comment on Kavernacle VOD along these same lines and this Cis Man replied "I love and support u in all u do. You were the one's who Threw the bricks, keep throwing those bricks." These r the allies that make us seen. Also congrats on the new apartment. Can't wait for the movie.

[@Owesomasaurus]

Fr tho a world without trans people is not a world worth living in. Yall are part of the rich tapestry of humanity and we would be less without you.

[@Vivigreeny25]

“You were the ones who threw the bricks, keep throwing those bricks.” Wow okay I need to write that one down for later.

[@AzryelSol]

As a trans kid myself this is a beautiful video. It makes me so angry when people don't understand the meaning of these types of movies. Thank you for making this. This is the first video I watch of yours, you are amazing. Also what are your pronouns?

[@saraperpetua1093]

uu

[@KimDrewTheLine]

she/her/hers

[@kat4923]

As a genderfluid person, it saddens me when people interpret Nimona's power as suffering/gender dysphoria/not being her real self. Being a shape shifter IS her real self!! That's why she's so cool!

[@saraperpetua1093]

yeah

[@BlackFireChasm]

I also read into Gwen being transgender but instead of a trans woman, I saw her more as a nonbinary afab person like myself. I love that about media with these themes because it gives each of us the opportunity to explore ourselves and see ourselves in the media.

[@saraperpetua1093]

uu

[@aciddrinker2194]

I love nimona. The author is a trans man and it was originally a graphic novel from 2015, and as a trans kid i love it so much.

[@hollystop]

(Also it was pretty popular!) I got mine in a scholastic fair ❤

[@saraperpetua1093]

cool

[@kayleighgrant4007]

My favorite thing about being Trans is being a herald of the coming apocalypse. Also I'm glad someone is talking about the Punk and anti-establishment themes of Nimona.

[@juliarangelr]

I love the concept of saying there’s no way Gwen could be canonically trans because?????? Of what? It’s literally the spiderverse. They have SPIDER PIGS, but trans is impossible? Makes no sense. We have villain Miles Morales but cannot have trans Gwen? Like even if you hate transness and think it’s bullshit, how is having PIGS TALKING AND BEING SPIDER-MAN NOT BULLSHIT AND ACTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE? Pigs talking? Ok. Trans Gwen? Impossible. What’s the LOGIC?

[@Gurianthe]

it's because Gwen is hot and they want to fuck her but "if she's really a guy" then it means they're gay for wanting to fuck her that's literally it

[@tinoesroho]

cue the jerks being like "But muh canon!" when the entire point of the past two movies is that canon is bullshit, all stories are made up, and that we should make up stories for all, not just the people at the top of the socio-economic pyramid

[@justanaveragesloth4141]

Not too say a trans Gwen is impossible because it isn’t don’t know where you got that from there’s a gay Spider-Man but no one gave a fuck or even knew, but they are saying that the movie Gwen isn’t trans because the *creators* never said she was, no one was having this argument when into the spider verse came out but one second of a flag took people to make their own head cannon and claim it’s now fact and get mad at anyone that says otherwise, spider verse gwen isn’t trans until the creators say she is but her story could be seen as an allegory

[@juliarangelr]

@@justanaveragesloth4141 I think it’s weird characters have to be proclaimed gay, bi, trans, but never the other way around. No character ever has to be confirmed heterosexual or cisgender. I wonder why that is. Just because YOU aren’t discussing this, doesn’t mean other people weren’t. I don’t think Gwen is trans, but we have no way of being certain, that’s all. Stop being so mad over speculations people make about cartoons. Watch it, have fun and move on.

[@justanaveragesloth4141]

@@juliarangelr I’m not mad like you claim if anything *YOU* sound irritated over my comment, *YOU* sound all pent up over people not thinking a trans Gwen is possible even though that was never the argument, but there is a way to confirm what she is the creators could answer (that and every single iteration of her is female) “No character ever has to be confirmed heterosexual or cisgender. I wonder why that is” that shouldn’t even be a question it’s simple because they don’t have to that’s not the only thing to their character but if that is all they have then oof you got a really boring character, speculations are just that speculations but people try to push it as fact this wouldn’t be a thing if people never brought it up people like them need to move on I’m just spectating every now and then. I loved the movie like everyone else, it was beautifully animated with different styles per universe, the characters were amazing they finally realized spots potential and the story was very good, the soundtrack went fucking hard and that cliffhanger sucks.

[@amydoesart3724]

Im impressed people ain't trowing the world on fire because of nimona, that movie is so sincere and conects so deep with me that makes me want to start a riot, and to me the best type of art is the type of art that makes me want to punch a facist.

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

I would applaud you for starting protests and all the activism possible. On another note I'm okay with people nor throwing fire. Southern Europe is getting there as I write.

[@chantelscott3968]

I feel this so deeply, I want to rip down the system and throw it all away

[@florenceb1031]

I want to highlight two things that resonated with me. The first is from Across the Spiderverse, where the characters are told that they need a tragic Canon Event in order to be valid spider-people, only to realize that spider-people without a tragic Canon Event are valid as well. The reason it took me so long to question my gender identity is that I rarely suffered from gender dysphoria. When I did feel dysphoria, it was come and go before I had a chance to properly analyze what it was and what it meant. The second is Nimona's shapeshifting as a metaphor for being trans. I've always enjoyed fantasizing about being a shapeshifter and part of what got me to question my gender identity was the realization that, despite being amab, fantasizing about taking on a feminine presenting form gave me gender euphoria while fantasizing about masculine presenting forms felt neutral at best.

[@saraperpetua1093]

oh

[@devofficialchannel]

Ngl I remember watching ATSV and listening to Miguel O'Hara's speech on canon events and my own mind joked "Yup, he's a truscum".

[@Petrichor_Pyroclast]

This video (particularly the spider Gwen section) reminds me of when I watched Luca, and when my sister talked about the movie. I knew nothing about the movie going in but was stunned by so many aspects -- found family, the senselessness of hating of people who aren't in any way dangerous or harmful, and the "we've always been here" kind of message at the end (not to mention Giulia's dad doesn't have one of his arms and rather than giving him a tragic backstory about losing it he's just like "eh it's always been like that" and he just goes about his life. Very refreshing). I loved it, and it resonated with me as a queer person. I consider it a queer movie. My sister watched it and enjoyed it, but a few days later she got mad because the "Tumblr brigade" had declared that the movie was gay, for no reason (in her mind/the arguments presented to her) other than that Luca and Alberto are close and ride a scooter together in Luca's imagination. It's sad that while queer folks are finding parallels and metaphors, searching for deeper meanings and resonance with our lives and the world as a whole, those who oppose us see only the surface. It seems like to them if there was no kiss, there is no gay, and if there is gay, then that means no one else can "have" the movie since the gays have claimed it.

[@saraperpetua1093]

oh

[@syro33]

now i want to go back and watch luca, i remember it being such a cute slice of life movie :)

[@bugdrawsstuff]

I cried hard watching nimona. I related so heavily to Nimona’s story and I’m gonna go watch it again because it’s so good and I love it

[@the.crow.apollo]

me too 😭

[@mischiefsguid3055]

Right? Nimona’s personality, the way how Nimona acted throughout was relatable for me