How I Came To Hate Sonic Frontiers… | A Review

Six months ago I set out to make a Sonic Frontiers video holding a very conflicted mindset toward the game at the time and now over the course of 22,698 words and a final run time of Two hours and twenty minutes, I've seen those thoughts to their conclusion for better or worse.
Flashing Light at 7:09
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
➤Become a Channel Member to get access to perks!
/ @dimitrimonroe
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
➤Twitter: / dimitrimonroez
➤Bonus Content: / @dimitrimonroeextra
➤Patreon: / dimitrimonroe
➤Instagram: / dimitrimonroez
➤My Website: www.dimitrimonroe.net/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timecodes:
00:00 - Intro
01:45 - Convergence
5:49 - Cyber Space
14:43 - Sonic the Hedgehog
22:23 - Kronos Island
29:48 - Amy Rose
37:37 - Boss Battles
43:34 - Knuckles the Echidna
52:54 - Ares Island
58:20 - Chaos (The) Island
1:01:12 - Miles 'Tails' Prower
1:05:51 - Rhea Island
1:13:54 - Eggman & Sage
1:21:07 - Ouranos Island
1:25:10 - The End
1:31:03 - Another Frontier (JP Script)
1:42:36 - Post-Release Content (DLC)
1:46:31 - The Final Horizon
2:18:14 - Credits

[@DimitriMonroe]

I'm tired boss

[@WoodEe-zq6qv]

Rest now knowing have brought excitement into our lives dear Dmitri.

[@xkanu1617]

Thank you so much! You deserve some rest 😊

[@Mr.Cynical]

Hi Tired. I'm Cynical. 😎

[@hopecat7466]

I'm not putting up with Ian Flynn's shit anymore

[@babarshah6479]

Rest well champ you did an amazing job in this video, keep being a king as always Dimitri.

[@HieFlux]

I think Blaze Hedgehog said it best in his review: "Food tastes better when you're hungry, and Sonic fans are starving".

[@lupinthenerd439]

People are not allowed to like games anymore apparantly

[@HieFlux]

@@lupinthenerd439 No one is saying that.

[@lupinthenerd439]

@@HieFlux but it's implied. Saying that is not far a part from excusing some bad design choices by saying "it's a step in the right direction"

[@Skeleton20133]

​@@lupinthenerd439You paid shills eat shit.

[@cristianovogt5586]

However. No matter how starved you are, the food still needs to be at least decent, or else you won't eat it. So there's that.

[@mitchellkresge9446]

“The final act needed polish, not an entire rewrite.” I don’t think it could have been said better, frankly.

[@best_mate456]

Err kinda both actually because the ending on the base is nothing compared to the final horizons

[@paledrake]

KH3 had a similar situation where the final act was just the game backloading 95% of all it's plot and important characters in the last 5% of the game. Instead of just trying to make that finale better they added/retconned it with the Re:Mind dlc where you time travel and do a bunch of behind the scene shit that never needed to happen.

[@lioheart55]

​@@paledrakeWhat are you talking about? The remind dlc didn't retcon anything it just added more context to what was happening behind the scenes. It's explains many things that happened in base game's ending like how armoured Terra came to the keyblade graveyard, what the other keyblade wielder did during the final battle and most importantly how Sora saved Kairi in the end and the reason he disappeared. This story had to be told this way in order for it to make sense. It's literally just trying to make the ending better, it's not changing anything only adding onto what was missing. Now you can still hate this finale, I'm not trying to defend it, but what I'm saying is it's nothing like what Sonic Frontiers did, it's the exact opposite.

[@soarel325]

Surely this game would've been better if they gave Sonic a backpack and had him look more VULNERABLE

[@hype5456]

I cringe everytime seeing that

[@soarel325]

@@hype5456 My favorite part is when he uses the stats showing "puzzle" and "strategy" are the most popular genres in all demographics but doesn't account for the fact the stats are very obviously skewed by Candy Crush, Clash of Clans et al.

[@GELTONZ]

I love that I hate that I love that I get that reference. I almost feel bad for that person. Almost. At least they apologized and admitted that they had no clue what they were talking about.

[@hype5456]

@@soarel325 Yeah probably should've did better research

[@WSBM14]

This game would've been better if sonic team fucked off

[@leithaziz2716]

I respect the fact that you acknowledged Roger Craig Smith's talent as a voice actor and brought up how the voice direction can have a major impact. He's played Bruce in Batman Arkham Origins and Ezio in the early Assassin's Creed games. From those performances alone, I can tell he's a great VA when given the right material.

[@backupschmliff1156]

I think he was never a good Sonic. He's just not a great fit for the character at all. Nothing about his Sonic voice is cool. Sonic's voice needs to make you have an unintentionally smile. It needs to make you feel embarassed for getting hyped at how unabashedly cool it is.

[@JoshuaIfidi]

@@backupschmliff1156I agree with your second point

[@JazmineRGG]

and Daigo Dojima in Yakuza series!

[@lightdarksoul2097]

Duuude I love his Batman I thought he was fantastic

[@robertlauncher]

It should also be noted that Amy was a major subversion of the male-female character dynamic in early platformers. Not only was the romance not overtly reciprocated, but it was the girl chasing the male hero. As someone who was a Mario fan first, I thought Sonic nope-ing out of Amy’s affection was hilarious and unique. I actually hated it when they killed that side of their relationship. Yeah, okay, 06 flanderized her, but it screwed everyone, so I don’t think going in the opposite direction was fair

[@MegaGlassguy]

The sad thing about her infamous scene in 06 where she tells Silver that she'd choose Sonic over the world, is that we get a nearly identical scene with Rouge and Shadow, where the former tells the latter that she'll stay by his side, even if the world becomes his enemy. The difference is just that Amy's line isn't written well, but when there's already been years of flanderization people are even quicker to chalk it up to her being a crazy yandere.

[@sharzinlalebazri5673]

Every western piece of Sonic media is written by people who hate Amy Rose and it shows.

[@bossmine3997]

Same can be said about any other character like Metal sonic, Sally acorn, etc and to be honest Amy wasn't really that good anyways and they're better off leaving her character alone

[@demetriusnp49]

This is kinda why I don’t want them to attempt another Adventure game or remake the first two, because they’re gonna try too hard in recapturing what made those games magical. Especially in the story, like Gamma for example. His story revolved around being a henchmen for someone who sought to make a world that would benefit his ideals until Amy reawakened the bird’s subconscious. Then it became freeing their ‘souls’ and the bittersweet ending felt genuine and earned. I doubt they would be able to make another arc like that without having walls of text. The reason Gamma’s Story worked outside of Amy was because the gameplay to story execution was done in such a way that it didn’t need much words. It just told it as it is and expect the audience to understand through its lens. And did so without having to rely on referencing the past as a crutch…in a bad way.

[@niedlichundlustig4159]

The voice direction bit with sonic's VA was bizarre. What value is there in throwing out an iconic voice?

[@alexlee4154]

Voice director - "Right there, thats it!" Rodger craig smith -"You have got to be kidding me" Edit - dammit shouldve finished the video

[@inendlesspain4724]

Western creators these days have a penchant for changing iconic stuff for no good reason. When it's not the case that they belong to an ideology that tells them that this thing from the past is problematic and needs to be changed, no, just cannot be allowed to exist as it is in modern times, it's because the creator wants to "leave their mark" on this particular iteration of the story/character, with complete disregard to what fans think on the matter.

[@anotheryoutubeaccount5259]

​@@inendlesspain4724 Clowns

[@kannyboy1847]

Don't get what Sonic has needed so many different English voice actors in general where in Japanese Kanemura has been his voice since day one, making him the definitive Sonic voice easily, doesn't help just how charming his often using English words in Japanese shtick is while he has nothing quite like that in English either.

[@alexlee4154]

@@kannyboy1847 I assume that some contractual clusterfuck happened when 4kids got the rights to sonic x and then im pretty sure those contracts ran out so then they hired a new group of people

[@TheCynicalGhost]

Your take on Amy is legitimately a godsend because man do I hate the overall discussion about her character and people saying they're fixing her now. Only take I wholeheartedly disagree with is on the OST, which I think even outside the boss themes is god tier, but good video overall.

[@DimitriMonroe]

Yeah I can definitely see someone liking it if the genre is too their taste, though its still personally not what I want from Sonic music. Regardless thank you. Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jaydenc367]

I mean eh...she is being improved though.

[@tailsprowerfan2729]

@@jaydenc367and she doesn’t sound like a Disney character anymore lol

[@Skeleton20133]

​@@samforrt2898Then you're a failure at producing music if you think this objectively shitty ost is well crafted. Garbage ass edm, generic stock opem world music and shitty edgy ass tryhard linkin park nonsense is not well crafted.

[@Terminal_Apotos]

HELL. YEAH. Hate how people think changing her character equals “Fixing” her.

[@froggyfreshbyitch]

The biggest thing that stuck out to me in this video was that you said amy was more heroic than sonic and would hold him to that standard, contrasting the sharper radical dude with a 'tude edge he used to have. That's such a cool dynamic i never thought about and it adds so much nuance to the two of them. And just like that i near instantly started to care about amy. I have ZERO interest in whatever magic potion brewing tarot card witchcraft route they are taking amy down. Even the voice, she's supposed to be like tails(?) but she sounds like she's 40, somehow now sounds and acts older than sonic, who talks like he's in his mid 30s in this game? Nothing in this series makes me more frustrated than the IDENTITY CRISIS. It is. so. weird. They've taken this cute bubbly girl, made her feel like an old grandma, and excused it under the illusion of "we've given her an arc". I really don't like sonic and amy in this game, they talk like they're friends but in a really "divorced couple trying to rekindle their old life" way... It's so awkward. Where's the fun. Your "Instead of trying to change her into someone different." line sticks out to me specifically. I saw a video where some youtuber called the sonic show very seriously said that this would be a fine time to transition to make her goth to make her 'stand out' and i laughed out loud.

[@DimitriMonroe]

Thank you, Amy is a character that has meant a lot to me for a long time, so I'm happy to hear my thoughts connect with others (: And yeah I'm not keen on Sonic show lol, a lot of his opinion peices leave me feeling similar to how you described that.

[@NineTwentyThreeTwentyThree]

Thank you!! Specifically on the character aspect, I feel like I'm going crazy every time I hear that "Ian totally gets these characters perfectly!" I literally never feel "Sonic" from Ian's dialogue. A lot of his writing at times is even straight up... bad.

[@MegaGlassguy]

I feel like too many people put Ian Flynn on a pedestal due to essentially saving the comics from the mess they were at the time he joined. To his credit he did write some good issues and I do usually enjoy his character banter, and dare I say I think he's one of the better writers the series has had, but that doesn't make the man above criticism. And Frontiers was certainly not something I'd point at as an example of his great works.

[@mariosonickirby1]

People act like Flynn being better than penders amd pontac makes him a god, but being better than them doesnt mean squat. Flyyn is mediocre and none of the characters feel like themselves when he writes them

[@GameyRaccoon]

read the title as "how i came to sonic frontiers"

[@RareTruffle]

People always talk about "Sega mandates" so I wonder if that's why Ian felt the need to shy away from showing Amy being in love with sonic. I remember seeing some IDW panels before and after Sega's approval and they would remove blush and hearts from around Amy when she would hug Sonic. I'd still say that completely removing her love for sonic is absolutely not the way to go especially since they still include that in the JP script but, they could be a small reason why it is the way it is in the EN script.

[@CatholicPiccolo]

I think it could honestly be SEGA wanting to market Amy better in the west. I doubt this is Ian's fault, given what he did with Archie, making Amy much more obviously in love with Sonic once he took over. I think Amy was not a very popular character with fans due to being seen as too "annoying" as she is so they changed her and made her the typical western "woman" character. The one who isn’t a damsel and distress and could do her own thing! This never really applied to Amy but it's a very common way to change characters in the west. Just look at Peach in the Mario movie. What SEGA is trying to do is change Amy for the west so she could be more "brand friendly", be one of the guys who can be included in group shots without having any issues. They're playing it safe and it is really annoying.

[@DetriMental_0]

I miss Jason Griffith so much.

[@yoder6162]

I miss Ryan Drummond

[@adreeeandanothere510]

@@yoder6162Nuh uh

[@DarknessPlasma]

Yeah, me too!

[@kingbash6466]

Shocked that someone became more negative with Frontiers as time passed. I ended up liking the game more than I initially did, even though that's mostly because of the DLC. While the game has definitely improved, and I genuinely think it's a decent game in of itself, I still feel like it has some major shortcomings that kept it from being "top 10 Sonic games" material. All I can do is pray that Sonic Team improves the formula with the next game, and not immediately trash it for something entirely different and ruin the goodwill they built up with the fanbase...again. Edit 12-02-2023: That comment describing Tails as Gohan spoke to me on a deep level. It sucks having to deal with characters you love who say they're developing past their issues only to fall back on them immediately afterwards, just to repeat the cycle once again.

[@TheSupaman98]

I agree, although this is definitely top ten Sonic games for me.

[@kannyboy1847]

For me the game only got worse with time, both while playing and after finishing it, it became more and more clear as I got further into the game how much the cyber space levels felt like Forces all over again and how bland the rest of the game was, especially exploration. But I felt like it was an ok game atleast after finishing it but looking back I think I might honestly dislike it more, it really feels like the modern Sonic Team just don't get what makes traditional Sonic levels good, knowing Frontiers also had 5 years of development only to be so mediocre is just crazy, a game that truly had nothing special to it besides the titan fights but that's only for the spectacle and music as the actual boss fights are painfully easy, like you have to really put in effort to fail those.

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

I'm on the same page as Dimitri and Kannyboy, I had some fun with the game at first and the boss battles blew me away initially, but the more I played the more the issues with the game became apparent. The platforming is sloppy because they gave up trying to make a good, cohesive control scheme themselves and handed control to the players, the combat is shallow and boringly easy, the visuals are mediocre between unexpressive characters and bland environments, and most of the soundtrack outside of the vocal tracks for the bosses is forgettable. Not to mention the pop-in, janky camera, and general oversights and cut corners from the game being rushed.

[@best_mate456]

@@kannyboy1847the main gameplay issue I think is terrible is the stats. It make the game unbalance and make stuff too easy or too hard if you don’t level enough. I hope the next game removes this and instead make the skill tree more dynamic by upgrading moves.

[@user-hx8wt3co6f]

It's shocking how excellently you were able to put into words almost every issue I've had with the DLC, alongside the current trajectory of this series as of late.

[@adnan_honest_jihadist5775]

which sonic kind of game do you like? pls dont come up with 2d its so booring frontiers style of gaming is the best

[@reggielacey2235]

Well to bad he's wrong

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 How exactly is empty open world roaming and child-tier puzzles in order to get enough tokens to progress the story "the best style of game"?

[@adnan_honest_jihadist5775]

bcs its fun and easy : ) i rather have that then to be stuck somewhere for 10 hrs and to get frustrated and angry then to end up not finishing the game at all, people like you dont think about others but i do or else i would have same opinion as you@@100organicfreshmemes5

[@RandomDrawer_tm]

Sonic mania is objectively the best sonic game. Frontiers is the best 3D sonic game we've had since generations. ​@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775

[@frugaljoker8277]

THANK YOU for criticizing the final horizions cyberspace levels! I haven't really went to replay them since the dlc came out which is out of the norm for me as i replayed base frontiers cyberspace levels more than i should have when the game dropped. Your critiques really put it into perspective why i didn't want to replay them that much compared to other games, but apparently sonic fans think that crudely implementing forms of "momentum" and "multiple pathways" is good enough. There's no tough shortcuts or tight jumps, like in the best of 3D sonic imo (Unleashed, SA2 Generations)just flying across the level skipping everything, which is ironically something that many 3D sonic fan games suffer from.

[@vazazell5967]

Tough jumps? It was always all about doing spindash jumps to skip everything

[@lupinthenerd439]

So like sa1 levels, right? Something a lot of people asked for years now

[@thatguy_dan]

​@@lupinthenerd439it's not like Sa1 though. This comment and video explain why 1:58:55

[@lupinthenerd439]

@@thatguy_dan Oh Boy! I love people that can't make their own arguments so they post a link for a video to do the job

[@thatguy_dan]

@@lupinthenerd439 what? The video that you're commenting on literally brings up your point. I even gave you the exact time stamp. Sa1 levels require knowledge of the level layout and precision in order to take shortcuts. You're not skipping half of the level with the tap of a button on your first try. To compare that to these levels on frontiers is just inaccurate.

[@nazca-_-8061]

Shiro Maekawa is my favorite Writer for Sonic.

[@megaturtleman1218]

Literally the only Modern Sonic game where I was satisfied with the how the characters are portrayed is The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog. (A free April Fools game, mind you.)

[@chi-wind8593]

You mentioning the differences of the American and Japanese script kind of reminds of me of Sonic X of changes with the 4kids and Japanese portrayal. It's crazy of how much the censorship that the 4kids dub had.the Japanese dub was a whole new experience. And the dub added and expanded the game lore. It felt more epic and grand than the 4kids version. Also, the music in the Japanese dub honestly gives a unique feel that is unlike the 4kids ver. Also, How the characters feel the Japanese dub is interesting. The more Jp dialogue makes it more grounded and lively.The 4kids VAs are not bad but, the Japanese voices make them feel more human. Man, Season 3 was just an adventure but the censorship in 4kids hinder its potential. The ending of the Japanese ver is my opinion the most emotional of any sonic tv series. However, it's crazy how changing a script effects how a person views it.

[@chi-wind8593]

Also, sorry the previous comment was long. Great video, I have the similar feelings about frontiers. I wonder what the next is going to be like.

[@doniarts]

What if I told you that while the english dub was somewhat awful in what it did script wise and music wise the french dub during it's airing actually was more based off the original Japaneses voice over then the english 4 kids script which kinda surprised me it even had the original Japanese music as well too. Even a french version of the Japanese opening which you can find on youtube.

[@chi-wind8593]

@@doniarts I will take a look. Thanks

[@DimitriMonroe]

No need to apologize man, thank you! For what it's worth Sonic X (JP specifically) is the only Sonic show I've ever really liked due to how it captured the characters. If it wasn't for the OVA I'd say it was my favorite animation overall.

[@chi-wind8593]

@@DimitriMonroe Honestly, I would love to hear your thoughts on Sonic X and comparing it to other Sonic shows in the future sometime.

[@Duskool]

I watched this till the end and i gotta say, that statement that people use of any given game "Being a step in the right direction" is never not annoying, especially in this or Pokemon. Both feel like they've been stepping "into the right direction" for a long time but nothing ever comes of it... Actually i'm wrong, Sonic Mania was a proper destination the series had, because it aced it, but that meant nothing for SEGA and Sonic Team apparently, because they threw it all away with SuperStars, which somehow is also a step in the right direction?!

[@DimitriMonroe]

I agree, but I think it's important to keep in mind Mania wasn't necessarily a Sonic Team game much like Dream Team won't be, I don't think ST has had a just straight up great game since gens in my opinion. Thus the constant "Well its in the right direction.."

[@Duskool]

@@DimitriMonroe Yeah, i'm aware Mania isn't a Sonic Team game, i just mentioned them and SEGA because i honestly thought it'd be a no brainer to make the guys that made Mania make a sequel to it instead of throwing that chance away, which is what they did. But wasn't really a surprise that they did, since they apparently love having a good foundation for something but throw it away for something else entirely

[@vazazell5967]

Sonic Mania had a bunch of shitty level design hyperfocusing on haha funni speed instead of normal gameplay like superstars did and hid special stages impossibly hard. Also the weakest story in the series Also you can't swap characters on one save

[@vazazell5967]

@@irvinaquereburu yeah yeah just like how people will always prefer green hill over labyrynth and marble zone, and this kinda mindset is what let to forces: a game that has zero friction against the player. Sonic fan's aversion to anything that doesn't involve running forward with zero obstructions

[@vazazell5967]

@@irvinaquereburu also studiopolis, the stage that's literally just gold right to go through a bunch of craaazy fast stuff, really?

[@Kneefoil]

Watched this after my own playthrough of Frontiers after waiting for a sale for a long time, and your thoughts largely mirror my own. The phrase "Sonic's taking steps in the right directions" is omnipresent and eternal in general Sonic discourse, but it is actually older than most people realize. I kid you not, the first time I heard that phrase was way back in regards to Sonic Heroes: at the time, lots of Sonic oldheads were displeased with the integration of human characters and environments in the adventure games and thought that that had ruined Sonic, so Heroes was heading down the right path according to them. I've heard similar sentiments for almost every home console Sonic entry since; even for Sonic and the Secret Rings of all games, because it got rid of "Sonic's stupid friends" and just let you play as Sonic. Rarely do I ever agree with the usage of the phrase, but unfortunately, even when I do, Sonic is not afraid to take just as many steps in the wrong direction as well. I think that Flynn is an upgrade from Pontac, but I agree that he's not all that great either. Even before Frontiers, I wasn't the biggest fan of his writing. How Sonic and gang are written in Japanese seem more in line with how they were in the Adventure games, which is how I most like to perceive them. Marine is indeed cute, but she is still one of my most hated video game characters of all-time.

[@MagerBlutooth]

It's great to have people like Dimitri and RadicalSoda willing to make multi-hour videos that manage to cut to the point faster than most 10-minute reviews. Clearly the mark of a true Sonic fan.

[@kaosagamerreal]

dimitri is not a true sonic fan if they gatekeep others from liking the game

[@Douglas628]

I cannot overstate the restraint on Dimitri's part to not talk about Amy's panties or the souless noises she does when she jumps.

[@DimitriMonroe]

huah....huahhhhhhh

[@kao7143]

dumbest criticism in amy's section honestly, couldve been left out she's always been short skirted

[@GuiltlessGear]

It really sucks that they're ashamed of Amy's affection for sonic, because this is easily the best Cindy Robinson has ever sounded as her.

[@TurboPikachu]

It also sucks that they abandoned the piko piko hammer for modern Amy. It was an appropriate thing for her to bring out whenever she got fired up about something. Heck, I miss how hot-headed she used to be in general. Ever since Boom onwards, she’s just felt like [girl character] instead of the fairly well-realized character she already was

[@GuiltlessGear]

@@TurboPikachu western writers try not to fuck up established female character challenge:

[@smithandsuperdeadeyeofthew823]

Well that was terrible about her I'm glad they got rid of that She didn't have affection for sonic she was just a man stalker

[@adnan_honest_jihadist5775]

the affection she has is USELESS and just a distraction for sonic for example: amy shows her affection towards sonic in the middle of a BATTLE then bcs of her being like that he looses. see how uselessely distracting that would be? same for relationships heroes dont need that same as soldiers and generals irl

[@TurboPikachu]

@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 for flat-arc heroes like Sonic, _maybe(?)_ he doesn’t need a relationship. But if I’m being honest I disagree. His kinda aloof-yet-amicable dynamic towards Amy, as well as her admiration for him and headstrong willingness to follow him wherever, is why she’s as interesting as Tails and Knuckles. Also her causing Sonic’s defeat isn’t even necessarily bad storywriting; in Sonic Adventure 2, her kidnapping and Eggman using her to trap Sonic and propel him out in a doomed escape pod with the fake emerald is how Tails got one of his two finest moments in the entire franchise But to say of relationships that “heroes don’t need that” as a broad generalization is just asinine. Tony Stark’s gf (wife in the comics) Pepper only ever benefitted his complexity as a character. And the 2003 Teen Titans series’ later seasons were built around the the relationship dynamics of Robin and Starfire, as well as Beast Boy and Terra - and both pairs’ arcs were really well done in a way that kept fans invested (and arguably moreso as the cancellation led to a cliffhanger for the latter pair) Not all heroes need relationships. But not all heroes have to be devoid of them either.

[@jamarpeters5082]

I agree with almost everything in this video (besides the OST). It is glaringly obvious that some fans are kinda blinded by the spetacle or concepts from this update rather than the update itself and how it was handled. It's better than Forces for sure but with the way fans have been treating it, you would swear it's the best Sonic game since SA2, which no.... not even in the top 10 imo.

[@cristianovogt5586]

Cap.

[@inendlesspain4724]

Better than Forces is such a low bar at this point. I think even Sonic 06 is better than Forces.

[@EntertainingHedgehog]

I like your review; I'm also disappointed with the current state of Amy. I still have some problems with Frontiers, Knuckles complaining sitting on the Island all day, when he could have taken the Emerald with him and he had some free time, especially if he went to a birthday party. If he can't anymore because of some reason why would Sonic suggest to "live a little?" Who will watch the Emerald? I wouldn't considered Tails fixed or progressive because he thinks he's a burden, it's just him realizing something he realized in Adventure 1. Instead of complaining, I wish they would have written him to do something instead of being trapped. The references in Frontiers are bit overdone. Instead of going "This is like the time I fought from (Whatever)" when they could have said "It's not something I haven't done before." People claim the previous writers never referenced when Generations is an example. I don't think Sonic should have only Rock music, more like Metal in Frontiers case. I really like fun and calm music Unleashed and colors has.

[@yosh0wnd]

Wow, this video is longer than Sonic Forces!

[@xman2oo3]

Now that I think about it, the Goku comparison is kinda apt. They both got a gold form that harnesses a chaotic energy and boosts their abilities silly high, they've both become incredibly flanderized into something they never were in the past, and no one can agree at which point it was actually good or when it "fell off" Serious tho, I think Goku is a good reference here. He was a pure hearted dude who constantly did good, not because he was a hero, but because everyone who was strong was bad and he wanted to fight strong people. he didn't take down the Red Ribbon army because they were evil, he got pissed his robot friend died and had a vendetta. He doesn't go to Namek to kill friza because he's space Hitler, he fights Friza because he's strong and fucking up his friends, he was just gonna leave if he could. He ain't a bad person, he does what's right because that's thr right thing to do... but he ain't going out and being all super hero and searching out evil to take down. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say Z goku was really fucking wise and introspective, even if he was a tad naevi because he was a forest boy. Now goku's only traits are: likes fighting strong people, is annoying, is childish, and is dumb. Guess similar can be said for Sonic where all that edge and camp is gone and all were left with is Saturday morning cartoon super hero who flirts with being deep and introspective but the status quo demands they can't ever go anywhere with it.

[@gregm4813]

The comparison to DBZ is apt, since a certain black hedgehog fits in the mold of Vegeta (a character I utterly detest). Interesting character for his initial game, has a good ending to his character. Comes back due to popular demand rather than narrative purpose and just .. re-trends the same ground narratively, only much worse. Then just becomes the Saturday Morning Cartoon anti-hedgehog to Saturday Morning Cartoon good hedgehog.

[@xman2oo3]

That's fair, least Vegeta is actually kinda switching things up now tho. So his loop of doing the same thing over and over is kinda just beginning of super to end of TOP SOME MANGA SPOILERS PAST HERE But ye, Vegeta has actually started going on quite the journey recently with the movies and new manga stuff where, instead of just wanting to punch goku, he's more trying to make up for all the wrong he's done in his life. Like in Moro he was the first one to get into thinks because it was Namek at risk and he felt he owed it to the people to do something. Then there's the Granola stuff where he lets Granola beat on him some to show him that the road he's going down, thew same one Vegeta started on, isn't a good one. So, Vegeta is kinda making a come-back when it comes to the quality of his writing.

[@lapis3965]

1:50:50 "Someone doesn't need to be physically strong to be a strong person." Exactly this! Since a character is only as strong as their motivations. Since if their goals and motives are simple, it makes for an uninteresting character. Mikasa from Attack on Titan comes to mind . Since even though physically strong, and arguably one of the strongest characters in the series. Her entire decisions for MOST of the series are based off what Eren says, or what she thinks he wants, no matter how good or heinous his actions are. Which makes for a boring character. Many who are center right and over have tried to tell these radical feminists over at the left the essence of what makes not only a strong female character, but a person in general, but they refuse to listen. 2:14:57 "I just I can't get over it. I've never experienced DLC for a single player game and felt the entire product, from the gameplay was permermently made worse by a result" Not gonna lie. Once they announced that Sonic Frontiers was going to be an open world game. I immediately lost all interest in the game for several reasons. One reason is that MANY open world games have large areas that your FORCED to traverse and not quick jump over barren areas, which to me is a waste of time ,since I want to get to the next epic set piece moment, or emotional story beat as soon as possible, not waste time looking at generic rocks and buildings for tens of minutes till I reach my desired destination.Two, is the fact that when it comes to open world games, developers tend to be are super ambitious and make the areas so large during the early stages of development, which isn't a bad thing on it's own, but the problem is they don't have the time necessary during the developing schedule to making sure all the areas created look up the par before the launch of the game, which usually results in a game that visually looks inconsistent, with some areas looking more detailed than others. ( that's not even mentioning the random pop ins, which Sonic Frontiers seems to suffer from based on the footage shown in the video). Finally, the pacing of the story of these types of games tend to be pretty terrible, since the developers have to give you multiple missions/ tasks for you to chose from at any given time for you to explore, since they have to meet an open world expectation, this means that main story beats tend to be spread much further apart from each other. Which for me, more often than not, makes me lose a sense of urgency of what I'm doing in the narrative. Hopefully, the next sonic Game is a more linear experience like "Sonic Adventure 2", that game ended up having good pacing, was visually great for its time( as one of the best looking games on the Dreamcast), and had a decent narrative. As a result IMO. 2:15:10 " In the wake of all of this. I was told people of passion worked on this game so I can't criticize it. " This argument makes little since to me. Primarily since constructive criticism can make a game better. An example that comes to my mind is. DMC2 on the PS2 console, which is an action game that was hated by the DMC community as a whole, with the game play being to simple, and Dante's character going from being a wise cracking guy with a ton of enthusiasm in what he does and says, to a stoic man who says little to nothing. The developers over at Capcom took these complaints to heart, and in the sequel we got one of the best action games on the PS2 in "DMC3". Point is, that constructive criticism ALWAYS makes a product better. 1:55:56 " Do you know who tails is? He's Gohan, he's the guy that had one really good moment decades ago. But the writers have no idea what to do with him. So they just keep repeating the moment over and over again." I haven't watched much of Dragon Ball Super, for multiple reasons, the primary reason that the power scaling was off, which was always DBZs strongest selling point. ( For instance, I saw a clip of Krillin holding his own against a blast from Goku who was in his Super Saiyan God form, and I'm like WHAT?). Other things like Regression of the characters, like Vegeta, didn't help either. Overall, an interesting video.

[@eslm-studios2996]

I knew there was something I didn't like about Amy's tarot card thing, and you've just contextualised it. The tarot cards were never a thing in the past, they were just brought in because Flynn wrote the cutscenes for Sonic Origins after making their debut in the IDW comics. It's honestly laughable they made it some sort of big deal in the trailers as Amy let the wind blow the cards out of her hands. I'm glad you addressed the issue about the Chaos Emeralds' origin. That was something I particularly hated about this story because they had nothing to do with the Master Emerald. It basically broke everything that came before, even if someone is able to implement it so that's not the case. Even if it's not canon, this origin story of the Chaos Emeralds makes the Master Emerald's Origin from the Sonic 2 Movie feel more original and better by comparison.

[@lweeb6568]

also with the homing attack stun it's one of the few that doesn't have unique animations like the twist and flips he will do in SA2 making even more jarring the one time where it would feel nessciary lol

[@TechBlade9000]

Mild correction, SA1 is the only game with a throughly instantaneous homing attack, every other game after adds some small but present timer because everyone kept mashing in SA1 and killing themselves due to no lock on

[@samoto6943]

Yeah the DLC could've definitely be better. And by god, now that there's supposed to be some updates on lore, but there is also retcons and the IDW comics being fucking cannon? Lord have mercy on us all.

[@blues4509]

As time went on I have increasingly come to the conclusion that open world "games" are made specifically for people that do not really like games and I don't mean this in a deragatory sense, it is simply a difference in mindset and desire when it comes to what one wants out of a video game. The main problem I have with this open world trend is previously gamey video games shapeshifting themselves into something else to cater to it. I am referring to modern open world design when it comes to this btw since the philosophy behind these games are different from what I would consider open world games before (a la Metroid games, classic Zelda titles, Darksiders etc) where much of the world is open to you but not immediately accessible, you have to master a mechanic a bit more or acquire a new one first. A game is defined by it's rules (you can travel to "x" which houses the challenge "z" but you cannot progress until the game knows you have mastered "y" elsewhere so that you are properly ready for the more significant challenge provided by "z"), modern open world games are defined by their complete lack of rules. People that tend to like these games don't seem to like games by how they are classically defined but instead free-play(roam) states. Hence why they complain about having to engage with legitimate level design with phrases like "It's too linear" as if this is inherently a negative thing that you must criticize games for. Just rubs me the wrong way and personally I believe generally more linear games, games with more direction tend to be the better ones if you like being engaged with what you are playing and not sleep walking through the experience anyway.

[@shiranui2844]

You're on to something.

[@halfmoon4163]

I am so glad I'm not alone in thinking this. After hundreds of hours in both BotW and TotK, I finally realized why I started those games with a lot of interest, only to get more frustrated with repetitive aspects later on. I was talking to a friend about why Metroidvanias are my favorite kind of game, and when I compared them to my experiences with open world, it felt like an epiphany. I so desparately want to like open world, but when those games give you all the tools you need at the very beginning, they get more stale than other games, even if they're still fun otherwise.

[@GuiltlessGear]

if open world games went away and never came back, i would not miss them a single bit.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Grand Theft Hedgehog starring Ow the Edge

[@adnan_honest_jihadist5775]

so youre a open world hater?

[@edgystuffretarkidnormcring330]

Totk is awesome though.

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

Don't think anyone will make a video that so perfectly sums up my own opinions on Frontiers as this one. It's weird knowing so many people love the game while for me it was mostly just disappointment. I have to say I did find the game way too easy before Final Horizon, but the way they upped the ante in Final Horizon was worse than just keeping the game fairly easy. All the amped up enemies and boss rush did was expose how poorly executed the game's combat is. I just hope that in the foreseeable future Sega can see what they did right and what they did wrong with Frontiers. You even made it more clear why Amy's portrayal in this game rubbed me the wrong way, granted I missed her line about "not being a damsel in distress" when playing through Final Horizon. I don't think the IDW comics being canon is inherently bad, but between Amy's writing in Frontiers and nearly all of the new IDW characters being girls and sidelining the main cast it seems like Ian is attempting to push Sonic in a feminist "girl power" direction, and we know how that tends to go with examples like the MCU, Rings of Power, High Guardian Spice, etc. I think some of the characters from IDW would be great additions, especially Surge, Kit and Starline potentially being the equivalent to Team Dark in a theoretical Sonic Adventure 3.

[@gleamingroses2952]

As a fellow Amy fan myself and who had her as my favorite character, you are so spot on with your criticisms of her modern portrayals. Its easily the best analysis I have seen of her character and how it fails in modern media. My comment will be long, so I apologize, I have a lot to say in regards to Amy (I'll also post a shorter part 2) Here is my overall main issue with the Modern Amy vs 2000s Amy Fan debates, the basis I see a lot of people use is the fact that she is no longer stereotypical or the fact she has motivation in her modern form. When in reality they didn't make her "less stereotypical" they just made her stereotypical in a different way that people are fine with because she fits THEIR image of what they like about her (which feels rather sexist), especially since prior to her change nobody ever offered solutions to improve her character, they just complained about her existence while using a lot of hyperbole in their arguments. Even though I myself didn't hate her character, speaking from the perspective of a detractor, if I wanted to say she's better, the only reason I have is just because I prefer this one over the older one, which by then isn't even an argument, what exactly makes her more progressive or better beyond she doesn't crush on Sonic? Because all they have done in modern media is make her a female stereotype, she's the main girl of the group, she's a voice of reason, has a motherly disposition, and is overall defined by kindness. But yet this is exactly the type of characteristics that solely defined female characters back in the 50s, 60, 70s, 80s and even early 90s media. This was even the designated role for female characters in sitcoms. This was typical in tradition of female housewife characters (or the girl the protagonist had to save), in which those traits solely defined them, which were often criticized for subjecting female characters to dull and sexist roles, but is somehow progressive for Amy? I've always found it so weird how the fanbase always puts Amy in a weird double standard, while ranting how she invokes double standards in certain instances, when tbh I find this has evolved into people just inserting any type of rant they can find based on systemic issues. Yes, it is important to note it's just as important to take male harassment seriously as it is female, but not every situation written with the perspective of "female gives unwanted advances" is them doing that. I think people take it too seriously or insert things that aren't even that intent. Not to mention the purpose of Amy initially was supposed to be more extreme with her emotions compared to everyone, she won't just be excited, she would exclude energy in her excitement. I mean really, she was also an immature pre-teen girl, so it's not exact farfetched to say that yeah, she's going to be annoying, but like that could be said for literally anybody at their younger age in a dose of self-reflection as you get older. Pre-teens and teens do stupid and immature things! Amy's crush reflects that (when not being flanderized anyway) It's like the whole "mature vs immature" thing the fanbase uses toward her. Firstly, being immature doesn't inheritably make a character bad. Secondly, when you mature you don't strip away everything about yourself to where outside of one attribute, your entire persona doesn't just fade away, you can change things about yourself or have a more mature outlook and even outgrow things, but Modern Amy feels like diet version of Boom Amy and had all her traits outside of kindness removed, that's not how mature works, she didn't redefine any of her characteristics in a different way, she just isn't showing them period, Amy losing all her traits wouldn't be "mature" its just subdued, which is not what she was. Even with how Boom Amy displays her crush on Sonic, moments where its referenced showcase some creepy factor too. Only Boom Amy was doing it in secret. And tbh, the whole "two characters secretly like each other, but don't admit it" trope is even more tropey than the unrecruited crush. This isn't me shaming Boom Amy btw, she's obviously supposed to be a different character, but I'm just annoyed how the fanbase uses her as an excuse to bash Retro Amy, while also making Modern Amy less distinct as a character due to similar traits she displays with Boom Amy, just having every one of her flaws stripped, while only taking the motherly, female and subdued attributes of Boom Amy. Speaking of Boom Amy, the only reason Boom Amy gets a pass is because she's "mature" yet beyond this reasoning, I NEVER see anyone analyze why her flaws her okay in Boom and not in the games pre-Lost World, despite displaying the same flaws outright. Since both Amy's displayed the same level of meanness with their tone when it came to their temper, hell Boom Amy would often death glare at someone for questioning her ethics, like that scene in the episode where they try to help Tails ask out Zooey where she yells at Tails about being a "refined woman" only to go back to a composed disposition the same moment, this is exactly what 2000's Amy would do, as evident of things like Heroes or even X. Or how in other scenes in the show she is shown to be bossy and mean toward her friends. Boom Amy was much more bossy and self-righteous, often bossing her friends around and scolding them whenever she believes they have done something wrong. On: Sonic Boom a comic book written by Ian Flynn that predates the cartoon, introduces Amy as bossy and with temper problems, having problems with Knuckles and being passive aggressive with him in particular. And as the cartoon went on she became Increasingly pushy and egocentric, again these are similar traits people unanimously hated Amy for but are fine for Boom Amy because she's "mature" when these flaws are just as apparent here. And both of them were used for comedy. When it came to Sonic X, I find a lot of her actions exaggerated there too. Like the cruise ship episode or the date one. I never understood why people hated Amy in that episode, while Sonic doesn't like water and its fine for him to feel that way (and admittedly everyone could've tried to be more understanding) it was wrong for him to attempt to gaslight Amy and Tails as an excuse to get off the ship. He intentionally used Amy's feelings for him to make her swing her hammer around so people think she's unhinged so they can leave the ship, she ONLY decides to react the way she does because she catches onto his plan and uses that against him. He asked her to swing her hammer. Well, she does that. She also calls him out. Keep in mind, he did this with TAILS as well! As a side note, I don't understand how everyone criticizes Sonic X Amy for being a stalker, when like how is she a stalker when she's literally with the group at all times, is part of the friend group, is chilling out in the Thorndyke Mansion, and actively gets herself in mishaps with the group? She's even often invited by Tails on missions because any time he appears with the Tornado Amy's often with him, being a stalker would imply she's some random girl who stumps upon the group and follows their every move and action, how can someone be a stalker if they are apart of the same group and live in the same residence? LOL when in Sonic X Again this feels like a tacked on negative connotation because it was easy for people to do that. Amy having flaws didn't make her a bad character. Quite the opposite. Characters who have room for personal growth and development are infinitely more interesting than characters who are perfect angels with nothing to learn. Amy was the former, but has become the latter outside of TMOSTH, which is the ONLY Modern version of her I like outside of IDW. And even so, the latter has done her inconsistently at times.

[@Canibar13]

Thanks for this character analysis.😊 It saddens me how people will dismiss Amy's old writing. While also having double standards for the new (simply because they like this new angle).😔 And after playing a bit of Amy's campaign in Adventure 1, has me missing this version of the character.

[@gleamingroses2952]

@@Canibar13 Honestly after rethinking a lot about what her detractors hate about her previous persona it further strengths my stance here. I NEVER understood the notion of Amy being a stalker. The reasoning being if you understand WHO Sonic is it would make sense. Sonic is LITERALLY a guy who's never in the same place, nor does he ever stick to just particular places, he just goes where the wind takes him, when it comes to his friends they all have to keep up with him in someway. While Amy was never directly invited along for the ride the way Tails and Knuckles were (minus a few cases), it makes sense Amy would have to chase Sonic down, she has to follow him, how else will she be able to find him or even get to go along with anything he does? There's also the context of events between games, there has always been implied events between each game where the characters don't really see each other for quite some time. And nowhere is this more apparent than with, you guessed it Amy! With Adventure, it directly states it has been some time since she last saw Sonic, and started to get bored of her simple life, but missed Sonic, but also the adventure he brought to her life. While the games aren't in detail with their stories, it can be easy to deduce that, Amy might think about Sonic sometimes and when she sees him, her over aggressive tendencies were her way to make the fact known that they haven't seen each other for a while. It's also not really that farfetched to buy Amy being immature when it comes to her love for Sonic, outside of games that outright flanderize her like Battle or Rush, it makes sense why she would express it the way she does, don't a lot of preteens do stupid things, aren't kids usually selfish themselves? lol Plus, the entire point of their dynamic was that Amy and Sonic weren't capable with one another, as their views for what they would desire in a relationship wouldn't mix, Amy wants the guy known for being on the go to settle down, while Sonic being on the go means he doesn't have time for Amy's affection, even Sonic X alludes to this. And the less said about the fandom's GROSS overreaction to her Heroes portrayal the better, people take her character WAY to seriously and is an example of modern day fans inserting systemic issues into characters to the point where it comes off as an overreaction/rant about issues, not to say there isn't truth to it in some cases, but it feels like people do it with EVERYTHING they see as an example of it. And while I'm not against Amy maturing at all, the way she's written now isn't a form of "she progressed to being mature" but more like she was stripped of every character component to the point where she's just woman. And not only that, but she also fills the role of the stereotypical "female character voice of reason" the same boring archetype that people complained about in Housewife characters back in the 80s and 90s media. I hate when series turn characters who are rough around the edges and strip them to being soften spoken, and calm, lacking any sort of RAW emotion. Not only is that just unrealistic but feels like an overcorrection.

[@smoothdude77]

I like how you touched on the point of characterization, since I believe it's a much bigger issue with the series than we think. I think Sonic is special because he's a character most people can root for, in both the games and real-life. Back then, Sonic was intentionally designed to have a likable design and personality just to stand out from Mario, and we still see Sonic fans fiendishly compare the 2 for that reason. The issue is they've seemed to ditch Sonic's appeal since (I would argue) Colors, and the last time they "got it right" was Unleashed. Now Sonic Team has no confidence that Sonic can stand on his own, and would rather capitalize on media trends just to lazily sell something. We can see this with Frontiers when the pre-release coverage for that game made it look like the worst video game of all time. Now they're playing revisionist history and pretending to be confident about the game because it sold well. This directly affected Frontiers as a game, and there's a reasonable chance the next 3D game could be bad since they haven't realized what made Sonic good to begin with throughout Forces and Frontiers. I feel all characters who weren't Sage were horribly butchered in the same way you feel about Amy. We should get a game about each of them going on their own journies, with Adventure-like controls and mechanics. I would be happy to play a game with just that, but Sonic Team doesn't think that'd work for some reason. Idk the future doesn’t look good for the series until Sonic Team changes from within or Sonic is handled by more competent developers. And I don't think the issues with the series are as complicated as video essays portray it. Still, I agree with your points about their mismanagement and this was fun to watch

[@espurrseyes42]

Even Sage wasn't a good character. She nags you to leave, doesn't say why, threatens you with violence that she doesn't really follow up on, and repeats this up until Ouranos where you're expected to just forgive her after all the BS she did and then feel sad when she sacrifices herself.

[@nomadspeed]

its the biggest issue by far

[@emilianoizanagi2245]

Frontiers is the most nothing sonic game i have ever played, i didn’t even touch the dlc because i was so done of the whole game being empty and yet a lot of people are saying this is the right step sonic needed, how many steps does he have to do before we can say he’s finally good? From what i think, way too many.

[@ataladin87]

This happened to me too. Liked frontiers.....then overtime I started to hate it.

[@megasoniczxx]

I vaguely remember Kishimoto tweeting something about looking at fan games and indies like Spark the Electric Jester when it comes to figuring out how to bring momentum (among other things) back and it just kind of struck me that the way the spend dash works and how you carry momentum in this game feels like a misguided attempt at making it work similarly to those games. Every so often I always see this critique of sonic fan games that basically goes "All you do is just fly over everything" and while that can be true in some instances it can feel like these people have never actually played the games they say this about or have watched a speedrun that shows other players doing just that without realizing that it takes a certain degree of skill to do it that you won't get out of just holding a spin dash at the start of a ramp and launching off like you do in this game. While I myself actually do like the Final Horizon update (I think it's an overall improvement from the base game in a lot of ways) I do agree with you in regards to this point cause it really is too easy to just launch yourself all over the place without much thought and it feels like a band-aid solution to the games design since it was never designed with you naturally gaining speed to pull off these huge jumps in mind.

[@spinballproduction9678]

I'm at your Amy section rn I got to say that your cooking rn. My favorite Amy iterations are the Adventure games, the real riders games, and Unleashed. She felt like she had a psuedo tomboy attitude in the form of her temper but was balenced out with her caring side. Her loving Sonic was a major part of her character and I enjoyed it seemed like she tried to push herself to be better for Sonic and for herself (Her invisibility technique in 06, Her boxercising in Sonic Battle, Her learning how to spindash and break the sound barrier in Advance 2.) But nowadays she just feels like she's just the girl character. Which sucks because Flynn knows somewhat how to write a game accurate Amy in the Archie comics. Which is weird because she has a reason to act differently (given it's an alternate universe). She just feels so boring in this game and in IDW now. I didn't like it but Amy being the resistance leader in IDW at least gave her something to do and now it feels like she doesn't have anything to do besides just tag along Sonic and Tails. But yeah enjoying the video rn if I like this game but you and I seem to agree on a lot. I'll probably reply to this if there's something else I agree with that's notable or if I disagree with something notable.

[@spinballproduction9678]

I gotta disagree on your take on Ares Island. imo it's one of the best islands in the game as it feels more open then Kronos was. It sucks that a lot of the island is closed off at first but once you do unlock the island i felt it was fun to fling off of rails and such. The enemies here are definitely the worst in game. Also Chaos is the worst island in the game not going to disagree with that.

[@spinballproduction9678]

(talking about the Tails and Rhea section) tbh I do think Ian could've and should've swept it under the rug. I feel like the problem with the character arcs in this game is that all they do is promise that they will develop next game but that this leads this game to feel like it accomplishes nothing. The chaos emeralds being from space isn't a good twist. I feel like the entire handling of the ancients was pretty bad in general. Since were so disconnected from ancients and because the only comments these characters have about them is "Wow they were so advanced!" makes me just not care that much about what happened. I haven't played BotW in years but from what I remember the flash backs feel more personal because we as Link experienced it. As such it feels like it matters what happened because it mattered to Link at some point. The characters don't have that relationship so for me it doesn't work. It feels like copying someones homework sure you have the answers (or in this cause the story beats.) but you have no idea why you got that answer in the first place (or why the story beats were impactful in BotW.)

[@spinballproduction9678]

i've decided to skip over a lot of the video because I don't disagree with a lot of Rhea island section to the "The End" section. I don't care about Sage and I thought her relationship with Eggman was lame. However What I do disagree with is you saying the soundtrack is awful. This game was the return of the orchestral music Sonic prominently had. I was blown away with the 6th movement of Ares Island. I loved the theme of starfall island especially that part where the piano is the main focus with the violins backing it up. I think final horizon did a lot wrong but I think the added tracks pushed it into my top 10 favorite soundtracks in the series the main reason being what is in my opinion one of the best music pieces Ohtani has ever made Second Wind. It's such a beautiful song in my opinion. I've loved this video up to this point but you did not cook with this take ngl.

[@spinballproduction9678]

Final Horizon is such an anomaly for me because I feel like what most like about it I don't and most don't like I do. I think non of the characters are fun and as you said because they spend so much time in the air the pop in is so much more noticeable. The writing is also pretty bad for them (After hearing some of the clips you played I'm glad I've been playing these games with JP voices since Lost World.) One thing you forgot about is the fact everyone has a skill tree which means they all need to learn to cyloop, to stomp, and to attack (You're seriously telling me the guy named KNUCKLES forgot how to punch?) That and the low stats makes them such a pain to play as. Now here is where I have the minority opinion. I think Sonic's parts were the only parts I enjoyed of this update. Yeah trial 2 and 5 are bad but I loved the towers. I will admit I wanted the game to be harder (Mainly the combat.) and while I never posted about it online I had fun with the harder platforming. I think falling isn't as bad when you realize you can parry in mid air access your situation and make your way to the nearest platform. I had fun taking on some of the upgraded bosses though some of them are bad. I finally felt like I was challenged especially when I came off of a all stats lvl 1 playthrough where I wasn't challenged at all. I think it also helped that that I beat this game over the course of the weekend the update came out opposed to the day of release that some others did. But me having fun stopped as soon as the master king trials showed up. I had the same experience with the new final boss and the worst part is that you have to go back to the original Supreme and the final boss feels so hollow. You're playing a Super Sonic with blue eyes doing the stuff that you just did 5 minutes ago as it's the same general concept. And while I think Sage was lame ruining the ENTIRE pay off of her arc is awful. so yeah while not bad Final Horizon was easily a 5/10 experience for me.

[@spinballproduction9678]

And finally the whole "Step in the right direction" bit is something I felt. We've literally been saying this since Lost World and while I like this game all it feels like is just blueprint of what could be not the actual product. Especially when Kishimoto has said this game acts as a prototype to what's to come. I very much heavily enjoyed this video even with the take on the ost so I appreciate this coming to my recommendation fed.

[@shanejohnson1606]

Between this video, Jebtube and J's Review of the game, I doubt I'll do a NG+ Run of the game. Let alone Extreme Mode. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy some parts of the game but not enough to restore my faith in the franchise, especially if they're still gonna spam either Classic Sonic or Classic levels when they're supposedly said they're done with that. And no, it's not just you that's alienated in fact, most of us have probably been alienated since Adventure 2. As for the story, despite it making the Meta Era canon, it had some potential but from Rhea onwards, was just lackluster as hell, to the point I still can't believe that they fumbled the bag twice. Like we literally could have had Hyper Sonic back but they said no, because they don't wanna copy Dragonball, yet they went and copied Dragonball again... in fact every time I turn around recently they're making a reference Dragonball almost as much as Flynn makes his forced references. Make it make sense, dammit. Honestly at this point I'm probably not gonna play another Sonic game after this. Or at the very least not on console and just abandon the games lore altogether because, I for one am not on board with this "Fast Friends Forever/Everything is Canon." B.S. Bandwagon. There's just too many contradiction factors that keep me from bothering to even like the series anymore. Hell, Archie Sonic, for all its problems people love to point out had better lore in its run than what we've got from the actual source. The only thing I don't agree with is people's weird desire to fix Forces when not even the soundtrack could redeem that game. Tldr: I don't like Iizuka as the director of Sonic. Yuji Naka for all his problems was better for the franchise. I'm tired of Sega riding Nintendo's coattails for gameplay mechanics, let alone character designs (Looking at you Dead Meme Six.) Just to bring in fans outside the "community." They will also never learn the right lessons and they don't deserve this franchise for doing it and all its characters so dirty for so long. The Meta Era didn't Die, it just had a rebranding phase. IDW Sonic Boring at best and badly written at worst. Ian Flynn's writing peaked back in Archie Sonic. And Archie Sonic is Peak Sonic.

[@PromKnight]

Man, it's been generations since we got a Sonic video

[@yoyoyoitshumpday6]

I like seeing dimitri come back to his origins

[@jaydenc367]

He was really unleashed his true feelings about this game huh?

[@chappleofflapple5086]

you could say this video passed with flying colours

[@m.g.2313]

Watching this video is an adventure all the way through.

[@thatguy_dan]

I had a pretty positive opinion on the game until the final horizon update. That just took the game's problems and made it ten times worse so it's really hard to not let that effect my opinion on the overall game. I went from being optimistic to worried about whatever comes next. I'm also glad you brought up the writing because I've only been seeing praise for how characters like Amy and Sonic have been handled when to me, it just feels like a far cry from how they were written in the adventure games. I'm all for Amy having character development but this kind of just erases what I liked about her Overall great video! Out of all the videos I've seen about sonic frontiers' flaws, this is the only video that highlights the problems I've had with it

[@DoctorMario606]

Bro... I agree 100% with your opinion on Amy. Ive always liked her old, loud, and boisterous attitude, as well as her ability to still be ladylike at the end of the day. THAT'S what made her cool to me. so to see it just slowly fade over the years is just frustrating. Especially because female characters like how Amy once was are definitely a dying breed. Theres a huge lack of female characters that are allowed to just be girls and be feminine. Which in some cases is fine, but more people are seeming to lean towards making every female character girlboss-ish, which again I dont mind as long as its done well, but I think its being leaned into too much into lately.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

FACTS

[@idman2]

Thank you very much for making this video I really mean you are one of my favorite youtuber for your in depth content and I like your opinions. I like how you go in depth and point out all of the flaws of the game but also talked about all of the good points you were able to get from it. After looking at it I feel that I am more informed about the game and the general feel of the community that I did not know. Though after hearing what the DLC did for the story and the characters got to say I kind of feeling a little hopeless about this series and franchise. All I can say is I hope they will do better next time but I don't know if they will now.

[@KevaunEverything]

Perfect, This is excatly how im feeling about the game. Frontiers model vs Gens model really opened my eyes, You got a new sub!

[@beandaily4074]

Finally someone who doesn’t praise Ian’s writing and looks into it in-depth! Great video btw, you earned a sub!

[@beandaily4074]

Also seeing sonic utopia is a bit awkward after learning about the creator, lol

[@FloofPuppy]

@@beandaily4074 How so?

[@beandaily4074]

@@FloofPuppy If I remember correctly the creator was outed as a racist and being a general douchebag. I like separating art form artist (most of the time) but it’s a bit sad to hear since I loved sonic utopia

[@Mehtaru]

Strongly disagree on the soundtrack, but I put this on me loving electronic music as much as I love hard rock and metal. Anyway, still love the game but I'll say the same thing I've said since day one, its legacy will depend on what comes next.

[@drantino]

one thing i would like to know a bit more about the writting for frontiers is how much ian actually did change, one that i do know is the kocos connection with chaos was a suggestion from him. when it came with the final horizon towers, one thing was pointed out to me by one of the other youtubers im currently forgeting is that all of the challanges before the boss rush are designed to get used to the counter(even know it doesnt help because reg counter vs perfect counter are so drasticly different). the second tower particularly has a setup that makes the challange so much easier if you wait for the disks to be launched out and counter them when they try and return. now did i do it like that, no i did the full manual cyloop and managed to do it after a hour of attempts. the target switching is actually in the base game....is it ever used, yes actually. vs knight when hes blocking your attacks with his shield, you can actually side step preventing him from launching the shield at you to lead into the sequence of slaming the shield back into knight. is this ever once taught to the player, never. this is one of i think 2 things that was missing from the different challanges in the load screens that is not taught to the player. infact it should be in there because then the player would actually encounter that challange before they get to the first actual good use of it by knight. at least the final fight is designed around the perfect

[@brentramsten249]

41:00 i didnt realize that "parry" was a 'hold', rather than 'press' mechanic... which made wyvern quite possibly the worst boss experience ive had in recent memory. i could write paragraphs....

[@clean-6291]

I appreciate the indepth analysis of this game, but I don't care for how you're reducing Ian Flynn's writing contributions to simple "call backs and references". I appreciate the acknowledgement that major story and plot elements were out of his control, but that doesn't mean writing character interactions and dialogue is a simple feat. I definitely understand your criticisms against the characterization in this game as well, but as you mentioned multiple times earlier in this video, there's a lot to love in the character writing, and it's more significant than simple references to earlier games.

[@Skeleton20133]

No, it's damage control.

[@PyrZero72]

No Shadow -100/10.

[@augustbornone]

So Dimitri Monroe, what's with the four rows of two circles in-between the lines at 1:21:38?

[@RocketDoesStuff]

This is probably the best review of Frontiers I’ve watched (and believe me, I’ve watched plenty). You’re very good at giving things a nuanced look, acknowledging all the different perspectives and angles at play. I 100% agree that the Final Horizon DLC was a misfire, so much so that I couldn’t even finish it due to all the annoying hurdles. This game puts the series as a whole in a weird spot, and I’m genuinely curious what good/bad elements will carry forward; how this is followed up will truly determine Frontiers’ legacy. Also, glad to see another person sticking up for Amy; she’s being completely ruined in the current canon, and I so hope she gets a revamp soon to give her that energy she once had!

[@christopherbravo1813]

to add on to my previous comment, the End *sucked* as a villain just as much as it did a final boss. you have this mysterious voice clearly manipulating Sonic throughout much of the game in order to free itself that, upon doing so, immediately drops the pretense of nicety and declares it's intention to "consume everything". it then does NOTHING to prevent Sonic's friends from curing his Cyberona infection, does NOTHING to stop Sonic from collecting the Emeralds, and only manages to break out of jail when Sonic has collected all seven. and then, the being who is older than the entire Sonic cast combined, who is as powerful as Dark Gaia, who can destroy an ENTIRE PLANET with no effort at all, who singlehandedly brought the Ancients to the point of extinction twice in a row proceeds to get beaten *horribly* by Sonic, after which it *runs away.* Sonic and Sage then chase it up into space, where it goes on and on about it's alleged track record and how useless it is to resist the stupid thing in one of the most tired and cliché villain monologues in the history of the Sonic franchise. of course that fits perfectly, as The End is the most tired and cliché Sonic villain ever written. Sure Sonic the Hedgehog is no stranger to eldritch abominations of incredible power, but they are usually *more* than just eldritch abominations with incredible power. Chaos was mutated by the master Emerald and lashed out in a rage because his fellow Chao were threatened. Solaris was *split in half* by his OWN WORSHIPPERS and immediately sealed away, afterwards seeking to free himself, become whole again, and exact retribution on *everything.* Merlina was a human mage who twisted and corrupted her own body in a desperate attempt to stave off the end of her own nation. Dark Gaia was a part of the planet itself, one half of an endless cycle of destruction and rebirth that could not be thwarted, only delayed. the list goes on. then you have The End, who to my knowledge is just some giant space rock who always existed, who randomly decided to destroy all life in the name of "order", and...that's really all there is. you have no idea of how sick and tired I am of the "timeless entity who exists to destroy everything" trope, *especially* when that destruction is somehow conflated with a desire for Law and Order. there is nothing unique or special about The End that has not already been done before. it spends more time actually hyping itself up than actually *doing* anything. yet Ian Flynn would have us believe this blowhard to be Sonic's second most powerful adversary behind Solaris, and judging by his assertion that "this isn't even (it's) final form", I doubt the Sonic Team is done with this bastard yet-though for the sake of the hedgehog's future, I CERTAINLY *HOPE* THAT THEY ARE. Also The End in Japan is literally just the Anti-Spiral from Gurren Lagen who's dialogue is generic anime trash as opposed to the English version's generic Saturday morning cartoon dialogue.

[@NiohArcadia]

Finally finished the video. One thing I'd like to add about the cultural misunderstanding and disconnect is about Super Sonic 2. I hate how Literal this game makes Super Sonic. It's not just a powerup that Sonic gets from space rocks. It's supposed to be the creshendo/the climax of the story. All embodied by Sonic powering up into Super Sonic. Like in the Secret Rings with Dark Spine Sonic/that game's equivalent of Super Sonic. It's Sonic taking in the anger and pain of Shara to attack the Erazor Jin with, so she can get out so she can get out of that relationship. Which gives Sonic Super form the appearance that it has in that game. It has narrative weight. It's not just Sonic obtaining Superpowers. What's the Narrative weight of Super Sonic 2? You talk to 4 ghosts and they basically say "Hey I failed to stop the end, here's your new powerup." That's pretty much it. Plus just on a personal level. Wtf can Super Sonic 2 do that Super Sonic can't?

[@nomadspeed]

easy question, he can parry worse just the name "super sonic 2" is making me think of old dbz-inspired sprite animations and that feels bad because super sonic is so much more than just a form

[@astariaj4520]

The narrative weight is sonic using the power of the ancients to finish what they started. His fighting for his generation and the generation that came before it. He's using the power that was weakening him all this time to stop the end.

[@Skeleton20133]

​@@astariaj4520Aka bs powerup and no buildup.

[@rossjones8656]

​@@Skeleton20133this is cyber corruption but controlled. It does have build up

[@Skeleton20133]

No it doesn't. No buildup, no explaination how it can happen.@@rossjones8656

[@maxjustice1542]

This was very thorough. Story changes, character direction, gameplay, and fan reception. There were things that I just didn't know about. You brought up examples that back up your criticisms. It really help me get why people compared Sonic Frontiers to other games. I share those similar feelings at the end of your video. After the DLC, I just felt disappointed and burnt out with the whole game. I did have my fun moments with Sonic Frontiers. I didn't think it was all awful. I just think the game could've done better. I keep hearing that phrase "It's a step in the right direction for the Sonic series" for so many years. All I can really hope for is a better game for Sonic Team. Thank you for your time and effort, Dimitri. I really enjoyed the whole video.

[@GuiltlessGear]

i have a vivid memory of some concave-headed writeup that said the then-recently-released sonic heroes was a "step in the right direction". Imagine saying that about the followup to the best sonic game for a minute.

[@HazeX2]

I really wish I could like Roger as Sonic. I don't think it's the material or the direction, he just doesn't fit. I'm glad he barely talks during the Super Sonic segments or I would lose what little hype there is.

[@DimitriMonroe]

I like his colors voices and even gens, but it feels like it gets worse every game. Forces was super high, this is super deep.

[@FloofPuppy]

Tails's dialogue about being "Mildly inconsistent" made me wanna pull my hair out. People keep trying to defend the fact that Tails was acting like a wuss in most of the names as of late, but this felt like a family guy themed bandaid to wink at the playing saying "Look! We fixed it!" Sage should've been manipulating Tails's hope in Sonic. Since she's an AI, she claims she possesses knowledge far better than Tails and would try and devalue his hope in Sonic actually making it out alive.

[@cedialive2759]

Seeing that Sage vs. The End fight again made me remember that I'd rather play Galaga over Ikaruga. Seriously, I was so flabbergasted over the sudden gameplay shift that I hated the whole fight! The dialogue was great, the music was somber, the visuals for The End's attacks were clear to see and easy to avoid...at least if you know how Ikaruga works. But the fight itself? Not my cup of tea.

[@TheSunsetHero256]

Wanted to drop my two cents on this video, two months after it came out. To the void I send my thoughts, I guess. Sonic Frontiers was the most fun I had with a 7/10 game. A great foundation, but deeply flawed. The fact that Kishimoto is talking to fans directly, and still actively fixing problems, is enormous. Update 3 was fascinating, but really bad. The next game, hopefully Adventure 3, will stand and fail entirely on having courage, a consistent vision, man hours, and polish. To easily address the last two: It's up to Kishimoto and Sega. It needs a proper budget and time to cook. I might be able to forgive Update 3's problems as a team too small with a vision too big, but that doesn't change that it's got major problems that required an Update 3.5/4 to partially solve. "A consistent vision" is the point I want to talk about the most. Ian Flynn got a lot of beef in this review, and I don't think it's entirely fair. You mentioned that it's some confusion of who's story this was, and how much control Ian had. There's an entire dimension fully missing, in the Sega Execs who have a death grip on the series and are the source of the Franchise's largest problems right now. The "Sonic Bible". An ironclad set of rules for Sonic and his cast, likely created after the shitshow of Sonic 06. Rise of Lyric was an entirely different game, until Sega came in and said "No, this isn't enough like Sonic" with changes like "Only Eggman and Tails can be inventors" and other ridiculous restrictions. "Sonic can't lose or cry" is another frustrating limitation. Recently, the rules on how Shadow the Hedgehog could be written have laxed a bit. I think that shows a bit in Sonic Prime S02, but whatever. All you need to do is compare Archie Sonic with IDW Sonic. Ian Flynn came in and sorted out a decade of terrible creative decisions, and aligned the Archie Comic run to having the best Sonic stories in his entire history. Compare that to IDW Sonic, and it's everything you laid out here. It's a similar story, Ian Flynn comes in to try to pick up the pieces of Sonic Forces and create something from it. With the restrictions I listed above, doing so with his arms tied behind his back. His ideology with writing is that everything is canon, and it was incredibly successful with Archie. No matter how insane, it was something that happened to Sonic, and should be respected. Antoine is in a coma, and Sonic is remembering all the times he was a dick to the guy. Including a reference to the first instance of Super Sonic in the entire comic, which was used to put a whoopi-cushin under Antoine's chair. This acknowledgment of this insane history makes the emotional reaction hit so much harder. And Ian wants to do with that with the main Sonic games. I respect and admire that. So I see all the loud references to previous games as a desperate fan's bid to align an abused and abandoned continuity. Even if I did find it eventually annoying as well. If Ian is allowed to cut loose, he's already proven to accept the friction of putting those games into the same canon, and turn that friction into something damn interesting. But it's clear Ian isn't in control. Maybe it's Kishimoto's story. Maybe it's Ian's. Whoever's story Sonic Frontiers is, it's frustration with the writing come from ridiculous Sega mandates first. Though, thanks to your video, I have a new understanding of Ian Flynn's (or at least some power with the Western distribution/control of Sonic) take on Amy Rose not being a Sega mandate. Three paragraphs to talk about vision to simply say the following: If the next game's story has any chance of succeeding, it needs a consistent vision. I want that to be Ian Flynn. From the inception of the game and through-out the development. Not brought in half-way into conceptualization, it feels. I'll come back to this in a second. "Courage" mentioned a million years above, is already proven. Things about Frontiers sucks, but Kishimoto took it on the chin. Taking his lumps fixing problems where he could, and created new content past his means. The dude has proven he's got guts, and is capable of something more impressive and important than Sonic Forces. I hope that shows in the future. (and while I'm at it, I hope Ian Flynn was listening to feed back about the more annoying aspects of his writing style in Frontiers. That'd be cool too). Sonic Frontiers, as cringe of a comparison to make as it is, is Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Actually nothing special on it's own, but a promise of great things to come. A solid foundation to build something new and interesting off of, but riddled with little problems. Now we all know that Disney Star Wars has dropped the ball hard. Maybe that's where we're headed with Sonic. I knew that Star Wars was boned after watching Rogue One. Sonic X Shadow Generations is Sega's Rogue One. If they can knock it out of the park, if Kishimoto can create new stages with tight controls and platforming, if Ian Flynn (he is a writer on this) can write Shadow's story with care and reverence (told you I would come back to this), then it means we're on track. If not, then we're headed for a Last Jedi. I talked a lot about my feelings, but that's because there's actually something to talk about. "Disappointed" is a far better place to be than where we were in the Meta Era. Generations was a great game, but maaaan the writing was baaad. And that's my biggest take away with your video Dimitri, I want to talk about Sonic and it's future. I want to pull together as many perspectives as possible, and get as much of a picture of what's happening behind the scenes. You made a deep dive, and I agreed more than I disagreed about your points. But I left Frontiers optimistic, which is where we split. I looking forward to hearing your views on the coming games. I'm hopeful you'll have more good to say than bad.

[@Switchell2]

@Dimitri Ian actually has a podcast where he regularly answers questions about writing the story called Bumblekast that would probably clear up a lot of your questions. Like the Chaos Emeralds being an alien thing was a Sega mandate, but Ian was the one who wanted to make the aliens Chaos to make the origin story seem less random. EDIT: Never mind I hadn't gotten that far, you already saw those

[@DimitriMonroe]

Yeah when I read this earlier I was like "I'll give him a minute" lol but thank you I inevitably miss something every time, so I appreciate the thought!

[@brentramsten249]

55:00 as someone who has played a total of 2 sonic games (frontiers included) i really cannot overstate how mild the references to previous events are. i counted a total of 6 (that i could recognize). only twice did i feel the need to pull out a lore compendium.

[@M4Dbrat]

"Oh, it's a promising start! It's not quite there, but look at what the future holds!" is what I though when I played Sonic Generations all the way back on release. They finally ironed out most gameplay and technical kinks and brought some cool not-so-linear level design and for just for those things it was a solid 7/10. But those positives were weighed against the fact that it was short af and had no real feeling of adventure, being just a collection of past level themes taking place in a literal two-dimensional white void, doing jack-all of worldbuilding (seriously, the premise of going back to old locations was ASKING for it), classic garbaggio Pontaff character writing and just overall lack of anything happening in the story. "It's ok, they did an experiment, they figured this thing out, they can do the rest of the job the next time! The next game will be the REAL game, a true masterpiece!" I thought with Unleashed, Black Knight and even Colors DS being fresh in my memory. And then we got Lost World. And Forces. And look where we're now

[@Idiotic_Idiot666]

IMO, this is one of those games that’s fun while playing it, but replaying it or the open world once you beat the game is boring as hell.

[@itssunday1990]

Ludonarrative Dissonance is what I can describe Sonic's progression from end game to the late. I can look over a lot of things in Video games but with Sonic suffering as the game progresses and still talking normal was pretty funny to me

[@dood3530]

1:51:57 I would gladly watch a whole video of you talking about the panties. Someone needs to champion the cause

[@markcampbell8590]

Unpopular but I like Roger’s new rendition of Sonic. Roger’s Sonic was never my favorite but I do enjoy his voice work. But I like the fact Sonic came across as more mature and level headed in this title.

[@Skeleton20133]

Sonic is more mature and level headed on the storybook games and 06 than Frontiers, blind idiot

[@Hyp3rSonic]

@@Skeleton20133 so rude, wtf 💀

[@TheDrunkLawyer]

You briefly mentioned it, but this is an amazing opportunity to have Knuckles and Tails use info they observed in this game to create some sort of temporary defense system for the Master Emerald. But nothing that would make it so he never needs to check on it. It is his home and responsibility, after all, don’t wanna leave that up to a robot.

[@jkrunch2166]

This video is incredibly well-made, but I respectfully disagree with the notion that "Sonic has been going in the right direction for years." With Lost World, Boom, and Forces, those games took the franchise in all the wrong directions, by stripping the games of forward momentum and coherent controls and level designs, to over-simplifying the platforming and focusing on combat over high-speed action, to finally stripping away all agency from the player until they just held a button to win. All while the stories got more insipid and devoid of any complexity, character or nuance that defined the Dreamcast-era games. Frontiers, for all its flaws, did reintroduce virtually all the concepts that were stripped away over the years, and even expanded on them, with wildly varying degrees of success. By the end of all the DLC, I find the islands to be very entertaining playgrounds to use Sonic's forward momentum, with failure or success on executing things like clearing a large jump or scaling a large towers resting on my understanding of the game and choosing one of multiple ways to approach it, rather than the game holding my hand with ts own mechanics fighting me every step of the way if I chose to deviate from that predetermined method. Even though Frontiers has moments like this in other parts of the game, particularly regarding the Final Horizon platforming and combat, the fact that, in the game's main area, I can say that, to me at least, means Sonic Team is going in the right direction. That being said, the best I can say of this game is that it's a 7 out of 10 - the pop-in is unacceptable, the game as a whole is unbalanced when it comes to its combat and platforming, and even the story feels like a prelude rather than a complete narrative. But because this game genuinely does have a structure that is worth building upon, rather than any of the post-Generations games, that's why I do think calling this game a step in the right direction is apt. Though that could also be a reflection on how poorly made all the content up to this point has been, as opposed to an appraisal of this game's merits. That being said, with the DLC adding the spin dash and forward momentum, this is genuinely the most fun I've had in a 3D Sonic game since Generations, and I think it surpasses most 3D games besides the Adventure games, Unleashed and Generations, and that IS on it's own merits. And that's why I hope Sonic Teams builds on what works, streamlines what almost worked, and gives a hard look at what didn't work for the next game, a game that is hopefully given the proper time and budget to live up to its full potential.

[@kanyaebruh]

I am writing a video right now that has an unleashed section, your character study on sonic is really good man! i agree.

[@Wandermidget]

While I wouldn't say the updates made me hate the game (I didn't even hate the game prior to it, but I do admit it has many flaws), I'm also with you that overall the update made my opinions on Frontiers lessen. These updates, combined with Superstars truly makes me believe Sonic Team (and by extension Sega) just does not have any idea what to do with Sonic as an IP except play it safe from now on. Everything feels so safe with Sonic these days in fear of upsetting the fanbase even more than it already is or was.

[@nerodoesart5886]

The fandom made me hate Frontiers even more than I did before with how extremely positive and toxic they were being. Even treating it like it being better than other franchises or other games like SA1, SA2, Gens, and Unleashed. The whole thing of not being allowed to critique a game like Frontiers unless the next game is better. It got on my nerves, which turned from me not liking it to... Hating it.

[@spinballproduction9678]

I feel you guys It's really exhausting that the fanbase is quick to make excuses fore every single flaw this game has. I feel like if we got another 06 tier game the fanbase would desperately try to defend it.

[@nerodoesart5886]

@spinballproduction9678 Or the fandom will try to criticize the game and act like they didn't just defended Frontiers and forget about their dumb takes on trying to wait until the next game or whatever they make up like IGN footage of Frontiers.

[@gamefreakDX]

This game and Superstars (which wasn't out at the time of this video) has made me be hyper cautious of the series now or just not give a crap. I was one of the few people who didn't like Frontiers (and it got worse over time) and I definitely do not like Superstars (if just because of those bosses), and after over a decade of mediocre games minus Mania, which is partially cheating, I don't think I care anymore.

[@yousif693]

Fake sonic fan

[@jaretco6423]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks of that. People say Frontiers & Superstar was when Sonic got back in it's glory days when in truth is, there not even all that good. I will say it has more potential and at least tries than any Sonic games since Lost World. But that ain't saying much. They still have big problems. They still felt unpolished. They still not learn from there mistakes. They haven't made an Sonic game that's really does all of that good since Generations. The only exception was Mania. But that's only because it was made by the fans and Sega hired them. It wasn't made by Sonic Team nor Arzest or Sega themselves. Now why would they let them go is beyond me. But ones thing certain, Sega ain't gonna make an good Sonic game if they kept doing the same crap that they've been pushing to do for over 20+ years.

[@Directsandarchive3020]

Y'know, it's interesting, I've seen a decent chunk of negative reviews lately revolving around things I like, and I generally agree with them. Arguments regarding this, the Super Mario Bros. Movie and the Five Nights at Freddy's movie, but I still like all of them. Am I the strange one for continuing to like media like this, even after taking all the criticism into consideration? I don't know, what matters most to me in media is my entertainment value. I buy games to have fun, and I had more fun with Frontiers than a lot of games, including stuff like Tears of the Kingdom.

[@DimitriMonroe]

I think it's healthy in the way you described it, feelings like that are only a problemwhen someone believes others cant like something because of its issues, or refuses to acknowledge the issues that someone else might have.

[@mio3199]

its just you being honest to yourself. Having different opinion is what makes opinion matters and that include your own opinion.

[@HelloOnepiece]

As a non sonic fan, all I know about this game is the meltdown of Sonic fans against Genshin after/during last years' game award show

[@DimitriMonroe]

"We removed the bots and genshin won" complete otaku victory.

[@adnan_honest_jihadist5775]

yet all of genshin impact gets decimated by sonic, also show me the proof for that and im glad im not a weeb or else i would sleep with a imaginary woman that im delusional with@@DimitriMonroe

[@edgystuffretarkidnormcring330]

Who cares about mid games when there’s way worse. I’m glad I’m not a doomidturdnal stand. Can’t wait to see the fanboys break their wallet for another pathetic cash grab of a game who’s lore was written by ADHD monkeys and have idiotic and cringey gameplay/cutscene/fanbase, all of that with metallic screeching called "music" in the background. Glad I’m not a dweeb who wants to fuck furries.

[@jonasonic456]

Bro thank you for critiquing the final horizon. That update was one of the most disappointing things I’ve played

[@brentramsten249]

1:52:30 once i upgraded knuckles to max attack he was able to take out most bosses with 4 normal hits (not a full combo, just normal hits). while sonic takes at least 50 plus attack moves to deal with an enemy on that island. sonic feels like hitting enemies with a pool noodle, and knuckles makes me feel like ive enabled some sort of super attack boost glitch

[@Terminal_Apotos]

1:49:53 YES I FUCKING HATE THAT CONVERSATION RAAAAHHH

[@anotheryoutubeaccount5259]

You might actually be approaching sane thought right there. Good work.

[@Terminal_Apotos]

@@anotheryoutubeaccount5259 Good one bro, really got me there Mr, Main Character

[@anotheryoutubeaccount5259]

@@Terminal_Apotos ...that's not what I meant, I was complimenting you. I was afraid it was going to come across as that, crap

[@Ultrox007]

1:43:00 - the only things I liked about the OST is the 'evolving' soundtrack because I'm a sucker for dynamic tracks. I cannot express my disappointment in that such a concept wasn't used to stack onto the track depending on playskill (ala DMC5 and Colony), and instead were to change the background loop depending on how unlocked the island is... ugh... At least I have 4 boss themes, 2 outros, and 1 relaxing fishing song I suppose... out of 150 tracks...

[@GregCubed]

100% agreed on the music, I don't think I've liked a Sonic OST since Colors at this point (or I guess Generations, but that was all legacy tracks). Lost World's music was so babyish and generic imo, Boom's music might as well of not existed, Forces started the EDM trend (which I know some like, but personally I found annoying and grating with the synth tones they used), and now we're at Frontiers. The overworld tracks are just BOTW style ambience, and the Cyberspace levels are more annoying Forces style music. I REALLY miss the edgy rock music we used to get, I want a new Jun Senoue OST in the main games again. Idk what happened with the current composer they have though, he used to make banger soundtracks too. The treasure hunting stages in SA2, the 06/Unleashed/Colors soundtracks, all of these were good despite moving away from the rock sound. It's like since Lost World a switch flipped and he couldn't write Sonic-sounding music anymore.

[@k4tzxbeel0vedz]

i acknowledge that this video is well researched and very thorough! that is great and i will say that i understand where you are coming from when talking about story/character issues:) i wont say anything on the gameplay aspect of things because im simply not qualified for that, i havent played frontiers myself so i dont have that firsthand experience at how the game plays. however, i want to say something regarding your section on sonic's character ian's sonic isnt meant to be some heroic god, the core of his ideology is explained when he talks to surge in IDW and it boils down to FREEDOM(which is a core trait sonic has always had) he doesnt force metal to change and isnt throwing a "hissy fit", he feels hurt and angry because he genuinely thought metal or eggman could change. one could argue that this desire to give others second chances wasn't always part of his character and that's correct but that doesnt mean this trait doesnt hold a lot of potential for interesting storytelling or that it doesnt fit him well(with him witnessing so many rivals/enemies change their ways it makes sense). it can be twisted as a great flaw and it deepens his character. makes him really empathetic, thus making him a character to look up to, reinforcing a trait sonic has, once again, always had: COOLNESS. all sonic is doing is reminding others that they should be free to do whatever they want and that they have a choice. if they happen to make ones that affect the ones he cares about, he will use HIS own freedom to intervene. ian's writing isnt flawless and frontiers' story isnt either(amy is the most flawed out of the four probably, i still think her character is fine but the whole "strong female character" thing that they try to shove her into does bother me at times)but imo he's doing a decent job and the good elements about the characters outweigh the bad. even with amy, most of her moments are true to her passionate, affectionate personality and it shows when she outright tells sonic about her goal of spreading love in the world which is adorable as hell😭knuckles, while still not being fully free of the meathead characterization, gets the opportunity to display his vulnerable side when he tells sonic about his experience as guardian

[@Vearon101]

As someone who’s only sonic game that I’ve finished was Sonic Colours on the Wii, I don’t think there’s been a new sonic game since that I’ve enjoyed anywhere near as much. I never bothered buying Frontiers (even though I was tempted to), but judging by this review, it’s probably a good thing I didn’t.

[@MaverickHunterXZA]

Personally, i managed to 100% the first island, deinstalled the game and never looked back. Quite easily one of the worst games i've ever played. Frontiers was the distilled version of what i'd answer to to the question what i hate about needless open worlds...

[@jaretco6423]

This & Superstar are perfect examples of just because it looked promising and has more potential than some of the games we have lately, doesn't mean it's gonna end up being good. It's better than any games since Lost World. But not by much. I stop after getting both Generations & Mania and boy I'm glad I did. Those games are still so good to this day and they might as well be the best finale of an Sonic adventure ( no pun attended ) for me because none of the other around that time looked that interesting and Sega will never learn from there mistakes as they kept doing it for the past 20+ years.

[@CuriousGuy_]

I still find it funny how ironic it is for the game to promise tails will do stuff again for him to just hold hands to save Sonic, it feels like such a wasted moment, and it also kills all the tension of Sonic's cybercorruption, it's such a dumb moment

[@ALloydRH]

Worth mentioning they did fix Knuckles' glide and tower objects not respawning in a recent patch. I'm surprised you think Kronos is better than Ares, I had a lot more fun exploring the latter due to it's greater variance in terrain, even before the physics/spin dash update.

[@ShadwSonic]

My thoughts on the combat in Ares are basically... yeah, that tracks. It definitely makes itself clear when comparing it's Battle Rush (a mode that now unlocks after beating the game) to those of the other islands. I still don't really feel comfortable with the Sumo fight, despite having done well enough on everything else to still get all the S Ranks for that mode. BTW, was not expecting the reward for that to be an entirely new difficulty level, though I don't see myself doing it any time soon. The more I played the game, the more my enjoyment came from my love of collectathons and _not_ the combat... so turning the latter into a "one-hit wonder" doesn't appeal to me.

[@doctormodder]

Sonic Frontiers' biggest flaw is none of the stuff you mentioned or anyone else. It's that Forces (The worst Sonic Game) wasn't retconed.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Interesting opinion

[@blahbliff9726]

Frontiers has mometum with default settings, and it did before any of the dlc. It's just far more accessible with the spin dash and new sliders. In reference to your criticism of the hitstop, especially on the homing attack, it and most actions in the game are cancellable. You would only wait out the slow recovery of a homing attack if you were strategically preserving an air dash or going slow to be careful. Many of the slow and automated elements in the game, including the open world, are negated with mastery of the movement, turning them into obstacles and non linear platforming challenges. Ultimately, the player is able to move through or beat most nay part of the game very quickly, and choose for themselves what parts of it to engage with on subsequent playthroughs. I think it works incredibly well then as a platforming sandbox, with routing akin to classic Sonic games. Waiting is a real problem with some things though, particularly certain minibosses like Shark.

[@brentramsten249]

i completed exactly 0 time trials, (i genuinely didnt understand what it wanted me to do and then never went back to them) and got the spin dash free for making it to the another story section

[@Realdeal958]

I've always felt that when it came down to it, Amy has a bigger heart than Sonic does. And this is shown time and time again. If it weren't for her Gamma and Shadow wouldn't have switched sides and even to a certain extent, Silver. She didn't have to reach out to Shadow like she did, but did it because she felt that there was a chance. She's also one of the few characters that has faith in Shadow even when not many would. Her heart is her biggest asset. Amy tries to see the good in others. Not that Sonic wouldn't but she's more willing to show empathy and try to see a side of people that others may not notice. Im glad that you spoke about her heroic side because I feel that she doesn't get enough credit. I've always wanted to see another arc where she disagrees with Sonic's ideals just to see that contrast between them. Amy has some of the best potential in my opinion. Also random rant: I'm upset the Cyber Super form we saw at the end of the Final Horizon wasn't playable. I felt robbed.

[@ArtseyHayton06]

What'd ya mean Uce that super form was bland af/s

[@ChaosAngelZero]

Sonic the Hedgehog is a little bit like One Piece (or rather One Piece is a little bit like Sonic since Sonic dates back to 1991 and OP to around 1997), the protagonist goes on adventures to different islands, meeting new people and occasionally some of those people leave their island behind to join the protagonist. The thing about Knuckles the Echidna is that he's written as a One Piece character who follows Luffy on his adventure on the island, but is ultimately bound to the island so he really shouldn't stick around.

[@nomadspeed]

OP & Sonic have a lot a character-based stories. I feel OP succeeds with its characters far more though.

[@KiraSlith]

Definitely another case of "The Sonic Cycle" striking again. Let's be honest here, the real cause is that the first hour or two of these games is reliably fun, even Rise of Lyric had that going for it when it wasn't bugging the ---- out. It's just Sega doesn't quite know how to keep the metaphorical ball rolling.

[@inendlesspain4724]

"the real cause is that the first hour or two of these games is reliably fun" Heroes comes to mind; things kinda fall apart after the first couple of hours.

[@Amit7.]

‏‪1:28:26‬‏ its not bother me too dude 😊 I understand why many people hate this final boss, but the dialouegs are great and the ending was amazing 😊

[@Amit7.]

‏‪1:55:04‬‏ really? Wow that's is REALLY disappointing 😢

[@arareshinygardevoir]

When I first got frontiers I was very hopeful that these “steps in the right direction” for the franchise would finally pay off with a whole new game and fun experience that I remember from colors, unleashed, and generations. I did the first three islands and the characterization was much nicer than what it had been and also not constantly trying to do quips or get over serious. When I got to the fourth/fifth I stopped and evaluated what I had been playing. Since this was when it first came out a lot of things didn’t have a fix for me as I was on PS5. Everything you said about level design and the open world I had that similar thoughts plus much more gameplay wise that I thought was such a idiotic decision since it’s either features not in this game but was in previous 3d sonic games or a general feel of lack of QoL and polish. The potential of what the characterization showed me gives me hope for future titles but I’ve been sitting on this “hope for future titles” for years now and have been disappointed for many years now either that be gameplay, story, or whatever at this point killing my hope. I want to be able to just enjoy a new sonic title again but they’ve left me with nothing but sitting and wondering why I even bought the new title after a couple hours.