How is data actually used to scout players? | Tifo Football Podcast Special

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As scouting becomes more important for elite level clubs to find the next wonderkid, how is data actually used in the process?
From Aussie Rules to Premier League analyst at Chelsea, Dan Pelchen is the founder of Traits Insights - a company with a big focus on individual player data.
A special edition of the Tifo Football Podcast sees JJ Bull and Joe Devine sitting down with Dan to discuss how he is translating complex sports analytics into meaningful player insights.
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Tifo loves football. We create In-depth tactical, historical and geopolitical breakdowns of the beautiful game.
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Music sourced from epidemicsound.com
Additional footage sourced from freestockfootagearchive.com
#data #premierleague #chelsea

[@KT-ki6gz]

A bonus episode?? My gates have suddenly become so good

[@Apollonufc]

Yes with the newsman jj bull too

[@ElFlouACM1PT]

Kuddos to you sir, can't pay attention to the podcast cuz I'm still laughing

[@HristoKirov1100]

Best comment I've seen today

[@treehousekohtao]

'We gates are wery good'

[@josephdominic9305]

Haha yesssshhh

[@booshramoosh]

Would love more of this style of podcast. I would love to see in the details of coaching as well, like how would managers choose a system/formation and what are the key criteria of doing so. How would these systems changes the players/training sessions.

[@jubjubbird1855]

Please bring in financial person too. On how they managed transfer budgets, when should they expect to receive the broadcasting money, would the player be categorised as fixed assets, would they depreciate/ amortize the players based on their contract period, the club sources of revenue, players salary & bonus, how they manage salary cap, is there any other investment made by the club that is not related to football, which body would supervise club's financial/ to who the club need to present their financial reports is it only to UEFA or IRB too & etc..

[@mattbailey8479]

I signed this guy as a performance analyst on my FM22 Everton save! So wild to put a personality and a face to the name

[@becks6900]

Thanks for doing this! I've missed these long-form interviews. You guys used to do them a lot and it was the reason I started listening. Hope this means there'll be some more in the future

[@Agza]

I like the fact that Dan has gone to great lengths to explain why data and stats are just useless, if not used in tandem with other variables and other modeling cues such as weighting and regression. This legendary quote immediately comes to mind; "Stats are like a bikini, they don't reveal everything" -Steve Kompela

[@anne8180]

I learn more about football from interviews like these than I do watching former players who turn to punditry.

[@ben.edwards207]

I love how much he talks about communicating data in terms that everyone can understand then continue to use loads of words no one can understand

[@HonestDre]

Hellooo. What a special episode! You know what else is special? The Athl.... Never mind.

[@Sam-cb3pv]

Would love to hear more about how Dan got into sport analytics. Definitely one of my interests

[@dubs31]

Great stuff. Cheers to Dr. Dan for coming in and explaining his professional work. This one takes me back to the old office, books holding up mics/cameras, and Steve Morrison explaining why the person yelling at him for not pressing is literally countering everything his manager drilled him not to do all week for that match. Seb speaking with Clyde...hell, even how we were all introduced to JJ initially. These are true boat-times people. Drink it in. Thanks, Tifo.

[@rossanderson5218]

As a current data analyst hoping to one day get into data analytics side of football, this was a superb podcast, thankyou!

[@xavi47]

bro can you recommend to what to study for data analyst role

[@chat-dmt]

Nothing can beat a fuel card, trench coat and a feeling in the plums.

[@kevinobonyo6230]

On a Thursday? YEEEES

[@hmonkey1]

Really enjoyed this, as a techie i would've loved to hear about how data scientists do the analysis. But that could be quite dry for most folk 😂

[@eddwinmoiane175]

2 podcasts this week. Awesome 😍

[@sw392]

We need more podcasts related to role of data in football 😍😍

[@VelvetyOnion]

I love all the TIFO podcasts in general and this subject is fantastic - the only issue I have with interviewing data-led professionals is they are always safeguarding their information / always feel like they are not letting us fully "in". Which is fair because of their job, but it doesn't make for an ideal podcast guest, as I don't feel like I fully know what they do, there are no examples of players they have helped pluck from obscurity or any concrete examples of any of their work. At the end of the podcast, I don't feel like I've learnt a lot more than I previously knew because of this. Again, I did enjoy the podcast I just felt like so much was held back and I wish the stats side of the game was a bit more open, to create a better conversation.

[@HeadRecieverAtHeadOffice]

I think the trick would be to get the data analyst very drunk at the pub and let the player specific examples come rolling in !

[@3rdaaa]

Excited to listen to this, as I have some interest in scouting and data. Great content guys!

[@ikeproud6045]

Love it! Just the old days before you were game relevant! As much as I dig your regular pods, this kind of interview is what first got me onto the tifo train all those years ago! Would love more stuff like this

[@thefootballpunnedit]

I'm buzzing to see this... as someone who spends half his day on fbref and caring about pressures per 90 for strikers this is immense.

[@wesleysmith6074]

This has been a wonderful listen, putting a lot of things into perspective

[@dadalo5]

This is sick. Love this episode even more than the regular podcast. Great interview and chat

[@sarahk1695]

This was a great bonus episode!

[@BackgroundWild]

This was really great guys. Love your podcast normally anyway but this was really informative

[@chrisfraser5088]

Oooo…extra podcast? Really cool topic guys! Great info. My gates felt so good after finishing this episode.

[@ruisilva2896]

This was great! Please bring more on the topic

[@christosmadrid]

I was not expecting the mighty Collingwood to be brought up in Tifo EVER. Great podcast guys and UP THE MAGGIESSSS

[@blizfutbol6736]

UP THE PIES ⚪️⚫️

[@Ibeenabsentalongtime]

Phenomenal interview, loved the Aussie rules comparison - great job guys

[@klausn7267]

Great video. Really interesting - would love to hear more from Dan.

[@leonardmvaya5156]

Dan is brilliant, you can tell he has a thorough understanding of his work and he's able to relay that information in an easily palatable manner

[@chelsHQ]

Loved it. Dr.Dan Thank you

[@jimjimson9]

Really good ep! Reminds me of the good old days more specials please!

[@T.E.S.S.]

Loved this. Brilliant stuff.

[@shortshady12]

Been too long since we've seen a podcast special. Great insight into our beautiful game!

[@noobmixups9102]

now i appreciate more how stats and data were implemented on fm, its interesting that the player value were calculated based on your club and league just like fm

[@harryweldon8584]

Man this is so cool that something that kids kicking about in a park has all these levels of insane details all the way up to the professional game.

[@pierriedupreez4474]

This was super interesting. Very unique episode 👌🏻

[@tevol7448]

excellent interview thanks

[@oisinmoore8725]

Super interesting, thanks for this!

[@zkavess7294]

This was good. Cheers to Dr Dan for doing it.

[@__dane__]

Really living for the week this week

[@wogbog]

i've been thinking i missed the tifo podcast interviews so this is nice

[@konstantinospetrakos2536]

More podcast? Yeeeesssh

[@powermonger9090]

Will this make me better at scouting in Football Manager?

[@roryphilpott207]

Would love to see you guys witness a game of Aussie Rules and discuss it briefly. The grand final of this season is September 24 if you're curious...

[@jamesbaurus5928]

A special podcast? Yesssshhhh!

[@waxcpc]

Include JJ in everything please. Thanks!

[@williamsdenes]

SPECIAL EP WE LOVE EM

[@theogrimond5167]

This was awesome !

[@nadeem118]

yay morning extra podcast in Canada time!

[@patrickm8316]

Another great podcast.

[@evilface-bl5sr]

this was amazing

[@TheKrostiman]

This is one of the best they did this year.

[@rossimate96]

This is fantastic. AFL is leagues behind football in terms of data analysis and great to see an aussie leading the way in it. Never thought I'd see the two sports I follow like this on Tifo of all places

[@Notverysupercoach]

It's not that far behind within the walls of clubs at elite levels. But the average folk doesn't have the same access to data

[@ChriSX13]

hey, i just listened to an interview of him on the official AFL podcast!

[@francisd7081]

I already love Dr Dan 😍

[@Juiced_Lemons]

Even more podcast please

[@domhuckle]

Subjective scouting presumably covers things like - character, stamina, contribution to morale, vocalisations and teamwork

[@connieeverafter3029]

So as I understand regarding the clustering point, and quantifying abilities using different metrics per position etc. Might an example be, in dribbling, for a number 6 them dribbling all the time and long distance carries etc might not be that useful given that would mean being out of position often. So instead of using metrics such as distance carried, successful dribbles, and progressive dribbles, they might instead use successful dribble percentage, dribbles under pressure, dribbles away from pressure, ball retention etc. Whereas for an 8 in a mezzala role, or wide playmaker, they might instead determine their dribbling rating based on progressive dribbles, entries into the box, xthreat created via dribbles etc? If so that makes a lot of sense. I think we all try to use some of this sense anyway just naturally. Like if a CB has quite progressive passing, but he also has many unsuccessful long and short passes, within a pretty good ball playing environment, it might not we worth that tradeoff. This was a great podcast.

[@harrisontrotter741]

Wheyyy aussie on Tifo!

[@hellosaysme08]

2 episodes in 1 week is truly worth it's weight in 10p Fredos

[@donwilsonfromthewildlifepr2904]

Wild description of footy. The Finals are on now, if anybody’s curious, and there’s a game starting in about 7 hours

[@James-fb9wn]

Freo Pies tomorrow too

[@haize9124]

Another banger by tifo

[@jopearson6321]

None of it was surprising to hear, but it was very interesting and informative

[@jr_xtreme8940]

I love this type of segments. I'd like to know how transfer fees are determined...it seems a club just slaps an arbitrary price on a player and it's up to the buyer to negotiate

[@ajw9533]

I remember the data people telling Liverpool to buy Carroll and Downing. On paper, it made sense.

[@car9melo]

Love it

[@VolleyballExplained]

I've played Aussie rules for 2-3 years, nice experience. :)

[@runrafarunthebestintheworld]

It looks like Rugby and I've played Rugby.

[@VolleyballExplained]

@@runrafarunthebestintheworld It's the cousin of football and rugby that developed independently by the British prisoners in Australia. :)

[@kicka11]

More to the point, how ARE data used?

[@victorodulate7548]

Huge fan

[@notyourfriend1634]

Very interesting

[@cobii5174]

nice more podcast

[@Jamesveltmeyer]

It seems a lot of data is about individual players, it would be interesting to get data about how players play together in partnerships and how that makes a difference to the data.

[@cityofmagic4370]

Y’all should do a daily 3 hour podcast!

[@SGB-hq4dk]

I’ve done high-level data analysis in the financial services sector-I can tell you with a lot of confidence that it won’t work well because it’s not a static game & it’s about intertwining a system of play & personalities.

[@tffti7058]

awesome :)

[@neillynch4778]

The question I would have liked to know is did Dan prove out his model to the Chelsea higher-ups by using historical data. For example, did he go back to the 2014/2015 data and show that, yeah, that kid at Caen called NGolo Kante that nobody's heard of is actually the best DM in the world? If they had spoken about some players, other than Haaland, that his model would have identified if used 5 or 10 years ago, I think that would have made it more compelling. Thanks!

[@anestojaga6442]

Love JJ translating everything into FM terms

[@martinbrndgaard564]

I would love to hear Dan and Mark Carey on the same podcast talking about this

[@wmyates17]

I immediately pictured the way JJ described traditional scouting as a noir film

[@wmyates17]

His work is genuinely fascinating, is there any possibility we can trap him in a scattergraph

[@BocchitheRock132]

Wait he's at Chelsea. ? Is he part of the new data team which Boehly brought on or was he already here ?

[@davematteo2076]

As someone with a master's degree in sports analytics and a particular interest in talent ID, this was an awesome video! But also slightly sad I turned down my PhD offer now

[@willmurrill3572]

Keys and Grey would be spinning in their graves as 'proper football men!!' I love the data side of football personally as it helps you see the real value in someone who might be good in the narrative or even a player that is not good in the narritive

[@SWJ808]

Can we make Dr. Dan a regular?

[@seanmackenzie1449]

My favourite newsman’s

[@DJMavis]

45 minutes flew by there!

[@jonnyboy6339]

JJ needs to live his dreams of being a football manager!

[@fadhilideche2831]

A surprise, but a welcome one.

[@gaara4667]

What happened to the other guy that did the podcasts with Joe before the buyout?

[@akamiguelsanchez9985]

It is fascinating how football is becoming an industry anyone can break into thanks to data and statistics.

[@redmed10]

Does he get to first base? Was the main line in Moneyball. Do scouting teams just look at numbers now and don't actually watch the player in a 99 min game.

[@RichMitch]

aren't all scientists data scientists? 🤔

[@sherv.h]

Hey Joe, I think the word you were looking for is "Biases." You can try all you want to use science-based research to discuss, analyze and conclude your world, the world of football; in this case, however, Biases will always hunt you...because you're human. Good conversation.

[@Superdelphinus]

I think you should invest in some table top mic stands lol

[@davidkao]

at 18:23 I'm disappointed JJ didn't jump in with "dribbly boi"

[@lathanjoblin]

What is seven over asking for the return of Joe’s quotes and facts database

[@EpicVideoMaster11]

woah a pod

[@BestBoyPatrick]

The gates have been made oh so good!

[@F--B]

Why not just develop fully optimisable machines to play the game, machines that can transmit live stats and that can be programmed and controlled from the sidelines? I mean, that would be more efficient, right?