How is DCS in VR? | Pimax Crystal Light

[@vadenkwin]

Ill tell you how good it is in VR, I spent 9 hours in DCS VR on my Crystal Light and loved every second of it! I have less trouble taxiing, landing, seeing the airports from far distance, it is game changing.

[@Sovereign_UK]

Everything you have said is basically spot on. I'm in too deep with VR on DCS, switching to TrackIR would completely fuck me, losing depth perception would be the biggest killer. They need to continue tweaking spotting for VR users as they have completely destroyed it within the last few patches.

[@nazradu]

Disagree. Was in VR for more than five years but went back to flat, cause fidelity, no struggle with performance and comfort. Playing in a hot head set on a hot summer day is just no fun. Also I don't like to be disconnected from my surrounding. I am one of those, who likes his family.

[@HighAspect]

Same here, can’t go back, it felt like I went from a 1st person to 3rd person

[@duncan9553]

I firmly agree. I've thought about going back to trackir sometimes, but i can't make myself do it. The depth perception and the feeling of actually being in the jet is something i can't give up. Only using a Reverb g2 right now but plan on getting the Pimax Crystal Super when it drops

[@Caroline9411]

Nice video! In fact, playing DCS in VR gives me a lot more immersive like tension because you completely forget about your surroundings.

[@TheSisi37]

My take on VR is that it's a very immersive experience, but once the initial "wow" is gone, you're left mostly with the negative aspects of VR, which you very well described in the video. Then you go back to flat screen, feel satisfied you dont have to deal with the drawbacks of VR, only to start missing it pretty quickly. Having the luxury to switch between both is great. VR for PvE, flatscreen for PvP is what I found works best for me.

[@pn2422]

I'm always surprised to hear people say this, for me once I tried VR there is just no going back to flat screen for sims, nothing else can replace the feeling of being inside the plane that VR provides, and I don't even have a top of the line headset, I'm still stuck with a reverb G2.

[@DaGhost141]

I feel like people who rave about VR don't play PVP since there you don't have the luxury of taking a second and fiddling with stuff, reseating your headset, only turning your head so far etc.. For Fox 3 PVP it's probably fine and Fox 1 too but you definitely need to have all of the buttons easily accessible. Dogfighting is the one area where I think VR is at a severe disadvantage.

[@Ravn_Wingman52]

I started with VR in IL2... 4 years later I can't go back :) I don't have a hard time with keybinds- I simply bind around the bigger keys like Enter and Shifts- so that I can feel it out (on the hotas its not a problem at all)... As for loosing the visual, I had bigger issues in track IR. Good vid :)

[@shadowfax9861]

One of the problems is that you fly the aircraft, then you take off your headset and switch to the monitor and you're not flying a Phantom anymore. You're playing a game.

[@eindummkopf2970]

Little tip for vr is bind everything u need to your num pad so u can easily feel which one it is

[@ACG_Jaydog]

VR is the way to go...Yes, you're right about checking your six. It is a chore, but as long as you aren't into being ultra competitive and just focus on the immersion and having fun, it'll more rewarding. Twisting and turning in my seat to maintain SA in a fight is what I love, just like real pilots maneuver around to keep eyes on bandits. What are you using to record? I tend to just use Shadowplay and record my monitor. I like it better than OBS,

[@Jubedy]

If you haven't already tried it the F-16 in VR is great, bubble canopy coupled with not generally needing to take your hands off the HOTAS makes for a pretty immersive experience.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

I tried some A/G with it, but the way zoom in VR works, combined with how I've got it bound up, means I have to hold zoom for it to be maintained rather than it being a toggle. In 2D I have zoom in/out slow on a two way rocker on my throttle, where I can zoom in the amount that I want, then let the rocker centre itself and the zoom level is maintained. But in VR there are only 2 zoom levels and nothing in between so I can't set it and release, if I release it resets to default zoom. Actually makes A/G really difficult because I can't zoom to see better *and* slew targeting pods etc on my MFDs at the same time, because it's all done with the same hand and doing it all at once is a little bit awkward, cramps my hand up. I'm reluctant to rebind where zoom is because I've worked all my controls around it being there for every single aircraft I own. If it were an axis like zooming without VR is, I wouldn't have an issue, I don't get why it has to be an all or nothing type control. Who'd have thought something so basic would be such a crucial issue...

[@Jubedy]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy I don't know if its possible in the thrustmaster software (assuming there is any) but if so you could try changing that rocker switch to a toggle rather than a hold, so that you could rocker up to enter zoom and rocker up again to leave it. But I'm with you, I find it pretty silly that VR doesn't just have a smooth zoom like flatscreen does.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@Jubedy I don’t think there is any, but I could look into some third party software that achieves a similar thing

[@Rubberduckzillas]

That fight with the MiG-15 is the biggest reason I hope the MiG-17 that's coming has access to the R-3S at least.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@Rubberduckzillas They’ve already said it won’t, wrong variant for it, but the 17 should be a lot less stiff on the controls, making it easier to aim - touch wood.

[@ozark6454]

Just fly the 19 , to me it’s the best bird on the Cold War server.

[@ladybugkiller8]

One thing that really helps me flying in VR and is binding mouse click buttons on my hotas. If you can you can also use a mini stick for mouse control. But you only need to put the mouse cursor in the middle of your field of view and the you can click on all of the cockpit controls by looking at the switch. Obviously, its not great in a dogfight, but I try to bind as much of the dogfight commands to the hotas anyway. The mouse is great for all of the other stuff that isnt as time dependent, like AG weapons settings, gear, flaps, lights and such.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@ladybugkiller8 Yeah I’ve been finding that lately that it’s much easier to use VR with 1:1 tracking for the mouse than it is with head tracking curves. I thought the A key would be easy enough to find because Caps Lock tends to have a little divot on the edge, but apparently I was wrong lol

[@pn2422]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy What about using something like voice attack for rarely used keybinds? Bonus points for extra immersion when interacting with jester.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@pn2422 Definitely an option 👍🏼

[@HighAspect]

I do this as well , I have my mouse right next to my stick so I’ve trained myself over time to be very fast and accurate because I can look toward the switch and it helps tremendously

[@Crazy-Bear-Gamer-Channel]

Man I'm 100% with your words, U prefectly described the same sensations I had switching from TrackIr to VR, the difference for me it's that I took a regular Pimax Crystal so I have the advantage of the built in eye tracking (and performance), but I had anyway to invest other money in the interiors padding, Strap and counter weights and I'm still not 100% satisfied how it fits on my head in some circumstances..this is mostly due to the fact that the binocular overlap changes if your neck\head it's highly twisted\extended like it happens when you're dogfighting.. The spotting it's hard exactly as You described and it's frustrating seeing that the same boogey on the mirror image on the monitor it's clearly tally instead! I suppose that it's a matter of the 3d dimension in VR, that in 2D appears as a sort of "pixel overlapping" making a far object more "dense" and thus visible with an higer contrast on the screen! The mirror acquisition looks way worse since in VR there's a lot of stuff You have to disable in dcs menu, and these things unless you look through the lenses, in 2D make the scene way less detailed..beside the fact that as U said, You only acquire one eye view! My opinion it's that the immersion IMHO beats every disadvantage but things needs to be improved!

[@Tome4kkkk]

I tried VR at myu colleague once. Everyone's talking about the depth perception. What shocked me more was the SENSE OF SCALE! I know it's related but that's my take on it.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

Yeah that was what got me too, I don’t actually feel like my sense of depth was really any better apart from within the cockpit. But outside the cockpit things like aerial refuelling are a breeze not because of the depth perception helping with gauging distance and speed, but the vastness of the world making the margin for error feel so much bigger that it didn’t feel like such a fine tuning chore anymore.

[@blackmedic6302]

Uhhh if you call that landing "fcked up" then I don't even know what to call my landings XD. Excellent video Bullet!

[@keithbriscoe99]

Voice Attack. This is the way....

[@Inf3deli0us]

Using the Keyboard in VR is surprising to me. Using a modifier on the hotas is much more practical to me and keeps your hands on the stick.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

I don't know why it happens, but for me modifiers act as toggle switches so if I forget to press it again to turn it off, it can fuck with everything else I'm doing.

[@Mark_Point]

It can be a slow burner to start with, the difference is huge and requires a complete change to how you interact with the game. But once it's burnt in it's there to stay..

[@Volcrum]

As a mostly heli guy, I think VRs biggest advantage is depth perception and then immersion. In most other aspects head tracking is "superior" in a competitive sense. Not giving yourself a stiff neck after a long rate fight is one hell of an advantage xD. Still, I can never go back.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@Volcrum I should probably try flying the Hind again in VR, head tracking barely helps make looking around easier in that thing to begin with.

[@Volcrum]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy In the hind specifically it can help looking over the front panel when landing.

[@kvan27]

So my work around to the keyboard bindings while in VR, while not perfect, but does most of what I need is using Voice Attack.

[@Murrence90]

Reeeally been enjoying VR in WT, but the spotting and graphical clarity in DCS suffers in my opinion. Hopefully with the MT version getting some upgrades, they'll also improve the spotting in VR, because I am really keen to give it another go in VR.

[@bryanmyers9977]

Interesting review. I was wondering if you would have the same spotting issues I do... and you do.. .with a much better headset than mine. I gave up flying cold war due to that issue. It's just not fun being so blind. I did a test which illustrates this: I placed a Hornet on a runway with a Mig15 appx 20 miles out at 2k altitude flying right towards me. I can easily pick it out at a great distance.. something like 16-18 miles. But then at maybe 4 or 5 miles the rendering changes and it just disappears until it's perhaps 2,000 feet away. And that is a perfect situation with nothing (like flying) to distract me. Imagine how frustrating that is during a merge. At least with a modern aircraft the radar, HUD and JHMCS will work to help you out. But yeah, even with that I'll take VR any day over flat screen. I'm there to experience flying, not just rack up points in a sim.

[@HighAspect]

Recommend XRNS and voice attack . I bind the critical combat items to my hotas. Until they fix spotting I recommend running Crystal at .85 resolution for spotting help

[@NorthernGrim]

The higher the res in VR the harder it is to spot! I know this from coming from Rift S to quest 3, it's much harder to spot on the quest 3 with higher Res.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

I don’t think that applies since they implemented the dot mod a few patches back, there are multiple people who have told me that spotting was absolutely cracked prior to the last major patch - I’ve flown with people who could spot helis over cities at altitude in VR which has always been legitimately impossible for me in flat screen. But with the way things are at the moment it’s completely flipped the other way, so I think it’s the game making spotting hard rather than anything to do with the headset or my settings.

[@NorthernGrim]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy Well when I lowered my res in my latest headset and adjusted the LOD distance to 0.7 I could spot dots for so far away, but there is a bit of a blind spot in between close and medium range that it becomes almost impossible to see them, even against a blue sky. It's so strange sometimes so I think it just needs tweaking a little further! Hopefully it gets cracked sooner rather than later! 😀

[@shadowfax9861]

Another great vid btw.

[@sebastienhebert6794]

I played a few days in VR, didn't like the fidelity and resolution. Si back to trackir and totally enjoy it.

[@Cor_Netto]

Lowering resolution might improve spotting, I run it at 0.9 render scale and can spot planes and stuff pretty easily.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@Cor_Netto I tried playing around with it a bit but I struggle to read things in the cockpit then, so it’s a trade off I haven’t found a balance for yet.

[@Dragonsix1]

les gooooo, vr vid 🎉

[@loganvelasco1889]

I have the same problem with the spotting. Everything is practically a dot beyond 7 miles and the aliasing doesn’t help at all

[@nemisis_wolf]

Interesting you say you can't spot targets well enough in VR as opposed to 2D! My training School for DCS where most are using VR, we find that VR pilots have a serious advantage in spotting targets at range probably near to double or more than 2D Pilots like myself. I think you will find it's just going to be you getting used to VR more than anything

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@nemisis_wolf Depends how recently that conversation was had because the consensus since I got this set about a month ago has been that one of the more recent patches severely screwed a lot of things over regarding VR, with spotting being one of the many issues people list

[@nemisis_wolf]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy Well if anything that proves that it's not a VR "ISSUE" more a DCS issue that can be resolved!

[@mattparkinson9752]

install necksafer and you can turn vr to like trackir

[@Dragonsix1]

the question is, do you wanna feel like a pilot or do you wanna be a good pilot lmao

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@Dragonsix1 You’ve pretty succinctly summed up my whole take there 😅 No need to watch the video folks, just read this comment lol

[@Dragonsix1]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy 🤣

[@Inf3deli0us]

Why not both.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

as Im telling it for long time now, flat+TrackIR is a bit of a cheating. You can easy turn your neck into unrealistic directions with no effort and the on fly change of aspect ratio is also helping you to keep eyes on targets but it is far away from reality. I for myself prefer my lower competitive achievements to immersion of the VR, cant go back... Edit: if you need some level of cheating of TrackIR in VR, you can use the VRNeckSaver, I wont.

[@MusicSoundPlayer]

How to improve gaming experience: remove weight strapped to your head

[@shadowfax9861]

If you are going to persist in vr then the Warthog is too limited. I have a full Winwing setup. So many buttons you cannot programme them all.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@shadowfax9861 I don’t have the headset forever, or the A-10, probably going to stick to Cold War stuff

[@Cyyanss]

@@Bullet4MyEnemyhighly recommend pointcntrl for mouse inputs in vr for Cold War stuff (especially phantom). Lets you use one finger like a vr controller but it’s just mouse inputs doesn’t interfere with flight controls. Saves you a ton of time on button bindings.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@Cyyanss I’ve heard of it but my understanding is that there’s a waiting list a mile long because they’re made by one guy?

[@Inf3deli0us]

Using a modifier on your hotas can solve a lot of small issues with this. I fly cold war as well and find myself only using the mouse in benign phases of flight everything important is mapped on my HOTAS with a modifier key for all my aircraft.

[@jeremispetre1988]

You are doing it wrong with the keys, you have to use a combination ot keyboard and stick. For me i use the special keys and a button on the stick, and everything else i use the the cockpit interactivity. I fly mostlly F18 and can control almost everything like this. For a simpler plane like Mig21 it's really easy with a few combinations. For me, if it's not VR i not interested. But i don't really care about multiplayer or performance in flying, i just care about the imersion.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

Yeah, I think you’re definitely onto something there - simple keyboard inputs as modifiers and then easily reached HOTAS inputs. I think at the moment I’m trying to adapt existing controls used for a monitor, to work with VR because I’m not sold on a complete swap over yet. Mainly because I don’t have the headset forever, just for review purposes - but I can see a lot of things being easier if I’d bound controls as you have, for VR from the ground up.

[@franciscgedeon9237]

hand tracking for the buttons in the cockpit anyone?

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

Requires more specialist hardware, the Pimax controllers are a little awkward to use in conjunction with a HOTAS and lack the control fidelity to manipulate all the different types of switches, dials, sliders and toggles etc

[@franciscgedeon9237]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy got it, I fly the G2 with helis in dcs, and I struggle the same with key binds or mouse clicking in the cockpit, was thinking about a hand tracking gizmo, and wondering if anybody made it work as intended

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

There are a few custom things you can buy made by community members - can’t remember the name of the best one off the top of my head, but because they’re all one man operations the waiting list to get one is about 80 miles long.

[@Mark_Point]

Quest 3 does hand tracking but hand tracking in general is not that great. Also requires lots of space around you. Voice attack for keyboard menu and game options plus jester works well. With that, a decent hotas, and some button boxes and you can get pretty comfortable.

[@nasigoreng553]

Well I am going to test mine for this target visibility shit I swear if its not good enough I am going to be pissed. I think growling sidewinder may have said that he uses the winter maps due being able to see aerial targets better also you were playing this at a dusk timeframe which reduced the light. I also got local dimming on my pimax apparently that was supposed to help in this situations as well when it came to contrast. Now to find a gcard

[@nasigoreng553]

discipline buddy discipline Nothing on a monitor is going to portray what you are seeing through the googles. The world being bigger and things seeming much faster GRREEEAAAAATTTT that's what I want to hear. I have just purchased my PiMax and I have held back on computer tech for years simply because I never wanted to waste money on shit that was not quite there. Fuck the map you would not have that in real life. I want to know minus all the ggggsss for now how hard it was for these fuckers to fly these things. No womder they lost poundage in the air man this shit is hard. Real dogfights would have been something, imagine all those dudes flying out of tonopah and groom lake being agressor pilots. Shit man

[@nasigoreng553]

I have been trying to fly the A4 without VR and its fine unless I want to dance with a bogie. Having a shitty monitor in front of me and the joystick hat to look around is fucken annoying. VR has got to be a better show, minus a few hiccups

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@nasigoreng553 I can imagine comparing VR to a monitor without head tracking would definitely give the edge to VR. Couldn’t play flat screen without head tracking.