How Jesus Became God - UCC Part 2 of 3

On the dates January 29-31, 2016, Bart D. Ehrman gave three separate lectures to attendees, a series that highlighted his book, "How Jesus Became God." Rev. Megan Smith opened each session for the local parishioners and pastoral staff at Coral Gables Congregational Church located at 3010 De Soto Boulevard, Coral Gables, Florida.
Apologize in advance for the video quality, where what was provided was of very poor quality.
Lecture 1 • How Jesus Became God -...
Lecture 2 • How Jesus Became God -...
Lecture 3 • How Jesus Became God -...
Program discussed on Bart Ehrman's Foundation Blog: ehrmanblog.org/?p=10888
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.
Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, reposting and/or duplication of this media without express and written permission from Bart D. Ehrman is strictly prohibited.

[@kimberlyjohnson7409]

Because of Bart Ehrman I've broken my chains of legalism, Christianity & the Bible. Now, I'm really free 2 just be me.

[@ConstantCompanion]

I hate to say this, but that's the nature of fish stories. The more times the story is told, the bigger the fish gets.

[@TitusJudah]

What a darn pity there weren't more people sitting in on this absolutely magnificent lecture.

[@hassanm2357]

Titus Judah .. Lol .. Go to part 1 and see the number . this is part 2 so they escaped and never accepted to her the truth .. #Truth hurts

[@JimFortune]

I was thinking the same thing, then realized about 1,000 people viewed this on KZbin for each person who was at the lecture.

[@ArizonaWillful]

People prefer the simple fairy tale to the cognitive dissonance of the reality.

[@oseikrommayweather1684]

TRUE

[@raysalmon6566]

Its false teaching

[@mharclerode]

The truth, but so HARD for the faithful to hear.

[@halwarner3326]

Excellent lecturer. Not over the top and condescending. Not combative or nasty.

[@johnmorgan5495]

People who want to believe will believe anything without real questioning. If questioned they will say "Well I believe, I just believe "

[@elmix9408]

Duh coz my forefathers believed it

[@horemopik2152]

And atheist when quesitoned sya i dont belive i just dont believe, we came from nothing

[@drmabeuse1]

This guy is just astonishing.

[@pellismelisande7617]

Elliot Mabeuse He is one scholar with a particular angle. He's very vocal and public that's why people know about him. There are tens of thousands of scholars worldwide on a continuum from very conservative to very sceptical. One needs to read very widely to form an idea of what is scholarly con census.

[@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543]

@@pellismelisande7617 he said his angle is charity otherwise he wouldt do it. when he spoke to peter on big conversaition its shows how ignorant ppl ppl who bel;eive in bible have angles and don't accept truth bible is corrupted and contradictory!

[@soslothful]

@OTO TAKE Emojis! A very powerful comment.

[@conquestmedia2490]

This guy is a brilliant scholar/teacher. Well done

[@johngaccione5633]

This guy is on his way into the Lake of Fire if he doesn't repent

[@oldlahore1857]

"Im for truth no matter who's it for or against." Malcolm X

[@JohnSmith-ms4xd]

and yet he got nowhere near close to it

[@slugakristov8343]

BUT was he really?

[@yahya2925]

@@slugakristov8343 Yup because he was Muslim.

[@drrydog]

Muslim always right, so therefore, Malcolm X right

[@andupandu6629]

"I have more respect for a man who let me knows where he stands" Malcom X

[@billscannell93]

What a fascinating--and best and rarest of all, HONEST--lecture. It is a shame to see such a thin crowd of mostly elderly people. If there were any real interest in truth within Christianity, this is what children would learn in Sunday school.

[@AERONOOB]

I can imagine people being caught up in religion for 30 years would almost by instinct block 90% of what he tells.

[@samman4602]

Anyone not Muslim will have difficulty making sense of this

[@fazludinsufeyan5748]

@@adorabasilwinterpock6035 Atleast you're now willing even to accept him as a good person.... Just accept him as a messenger and accept Islam brother

[@subversion6066]

Most people want to meet Tom Cruise or Rihanna, I want to meet Bart.

[@Redactedinformant]

@Diane Robertson If a person of any religion is comfortable enough and confident in their beliefs, they can openly listen to another's views. It's the people who feel attacked and/ or that this guy may be "listening" to the devil that aren't confident in their beliefs and worry any other view may cause them to go astray. Which makes for a weak argument that they hold strong beliefs.

[@Spaseebo]

Dr. Ehrman's lectures are always deeply informative and fair. I have all of his lecture series by The Great Courses (The Teaching Company), and recommend them to you.

[@pinball1970]

@@first99967 I would do your research, very little of what he teaches is contentious in academic circles. He points this out in books some of which are used as standard texts in American universities

[@pinball1970]

@@first99967 We can dismiss John because the other Gospels contradict it.

[@drspaseebo410]

@@pinball1970 ~~~ Agreed.

[@colinc892]

@@first99967 the term Messiah means anointed. When the OT refers to god's anointed (like the king of israel) it's literally the same word used to describe Jesus

[@zakariab9591]

@@first99967 well it does make sense since you can not have more than 1 God. If every prophet teaches the worship of 1 God, how could we worship someone else? It doesn't make more sense since it is a proces of being a prophet (Jesus) who teaches the worship 1 God, to a human who is actually God besides God.

[@georgepaul5843]

I love listening to Bart. Learn and clarify my understanding of what religions are, the evangelical Jesus hoax. “How Jesus Became God” All 3 Parts, and more. Wonderful lecturer and debater with people insisting on promoting nonsense.

[@DL-rl9bd]

Where has The LORD Bart Ehrman been all my life?! He could have saved me from my religion of Christianity, long ago! I thought Richard Carrier was great - Bart is awesome! Thanks for the videos!

[@DL-rl9bd]

This is what I've concluded: Ancient culture is not without its mythology. The Old Testament is Hebrew mythology. The New Testament is mythology of Hellenistic Judaism. It all makes so much sense, now!

[@ibatan2981]

I say Bart is a hypocrite and a deceiver. His bad intentions is to hide the part of the truth that will prove him wrong. Also to misinterpret the part that he likes to show that he's right. He doesn't believe that the gospel is inspired by the Holly Spirit; thus, he's demanding eye witnesses for every incident/saying in the gospel. e.g. how did they hear what Pilate said to Jesus and back unless Pilate made a news conference after the trial. There is absolutely no need to any eye witness. The Holly Spirit inspired each of the disciples to write what has happened and each one of them wrote it in his own style. (thus minor differences). I can tell that he's not Christian anymore as he's calling the era after Jesus Christ as 'C.E. (Current Era) vs. the Christian way of 'A.D'. (Ano Domini or the Year of the Lord.) Thus he does not believe that Jesus is our ONLY God.; He stated that only in John that Jesus claims to be God. He does not want to mention, Luke 1:43 were Elizabeth (John's The Baptist mother) confirms that the Virgin Mary is 'the mother of my God' and NOT the mother of my prophet. There are other places too but this is the easiest. After his resurrection, most disciples admitted that Jesus Christ is our GOD. Luke 24:45-47 and worshiped him Luke 24:52. Our Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled many of the old-testament prophecies abt him till the last minute before he died. The Gospel was written in Aramaic Hebrew but original copies were destroyed/confiscated by the Romans/Sanhedrin troops. Many other copies were destroyed during the almost first 312 years of Christianity by the Romans, Jews and the pagans. Obviously, they did not have any respect to our scriptures and did not preserve them in their Librairies. Later copies of our gospel were written in Greek/other languages as the disciples, and by the power of the Holly Spirit, started to speak in tongues. Greek was the most common language in the Roman Empire provinces. Thus a Greek gospel will be understood by much more people than any other language. There are more other verses that prove that our ONLY LORD/GOD JESUS CHRIST IS THE MOST HIGH AND THE GREATEST EVER. Certainly, Bart will sell his books/shows quicker and for more if he takes the counter Christian side. Also, Bart doesn't give any evidence to his statements/opinions but demand all kind of evidence from the Gospels inspired by the Holly Spirit.

[@Steve235711]

​@@ibatan2981 His statements about the views of ancient peoples and in particular early Christians are based on a host of contemporaneous writings. He simply doesn't have time to get into those in these lectures. On the other hand, citation needed for "the Gospel was written in Aramaic Hebrew". Also, "there are more other verses that prove..." Ehh? How can a verse in a book serve to prove anything like that?

[@honorquest]

@@ibatan2981 What he has always said about John is that from his writings it seems only John "knew", "thought" or "regarded" Jesus as the son of God and Jesus Himself. Unlike Luke where it's general knowledge or popular awareness about His sonship as evidenced in the verses you shared and others.

[@wiwlarue4097]

I agree with most of what Bart says in many ways. Concerning the connection between egyptian religion and christianity I am unconvinced. There are similar motifs in both stories only the egyptian being the earlier. For example I've read the following: Isis kind of was a virgin. It does say so on the walls of the temple of Set. Also she was later merged with Hathor to make Mut, who definitely was a virgin mother.The virginity of Horus’s mother, Isis, has been disputed, because in one myth she is portrayed as impregnating herself with Osiris’s severed phallus. In depictions of Isis’s impregnation, the goddess conceives Horus “while she fluttered in the form of a hawk over the corpse of her dead husband.” This would indicate that the conception couln't have been physical but rather symbolic since Isis was both the sister, the divine mother and the wife of Osiris in one person. In an image from the tomb of Ramesses VI, Horus is born out of Osiris’s corpse without Isis even being in the picture. Hence, in discussing these myths we are not dealing with “real people” who have body parts.The Egyptian goddess who was equally “the Great Virgin” (hwnt) and “Mother of the God” was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus].One of the inscriptions that calls Isis the “Great Virgin” appears in the temple of Seti I at Abydos dating to the 13th century BCE. As stated by professor of Old Testament and Catholic Theology at the University of Bonn Dr. G. Johannes Botterweck, in the Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament.The Pyramid Texts speak of “the great virgin” (hwn.t wr.t) three times. She is anonymous, appears as the protectress of the king, and is explicitly called his mother once. It is interesting that Isis is addresseed as hwn.t in a sarcophagus oracle that deals with her mysterious pregnancy. In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares: “I am the great virgin.”It should be noted that the king or pharaoh, whose mother is called “the great virgin,” is also the living Horus; hence, his great virgin mother would be Isis, because father and son were regarded as one much like in the Jesus myth. John 14:11 "I am in the father and the father is in me."So in a metaphorical way, Osiris died but was resurrected in horus thus the yearly repetition of the osiris rites would guarantee fertility and by the resurrection, eternal life. According to egyptian myths while a person is alive (taking the king as the example), he is Horus the son of the god Osiris. But once he dies, he becomes Osiris, so it can only be Osiris who is resurrected in the form of Horus. Osiris was a Victor of Amentet, thus descended to the place of the dead, and ascended to Heavens as Horus. I hope the motifs and paralells are clear.

[@ta192utube]

Significance of resurrection: "If He did it for him, He can do it for me...count me in..."

[@kendrajade6688]

Well if HE's in... I"m in!

[@anwarhussein5688]

Sometimes truth is not easy to accept..

[@indrishmo]

Trust me, it's even worse when you find out that your prophet is a pedo sex maniac! Hard to face such truths!

[@kingdavid7345]

@@indrishmo you're just enemy of knowledge.. your hobby is to hear lies on other religions and repeat it over and over again when you know the answer of it !! all that just to stay on your corrupted religion and protect your nonsense blind faith.we muslims are forced to learn our religion in schools and in the Hadiths and in the Qur'an so don't act like you know something when you can't even speak Arabic please... Sheikh google is not going to help you..educate yourself do your researches with an open mind please man stop hating you're a complete ignorant

[@faithfultheology]

@@kingdavid7345 in all honesty all muslim scholars will acknowledge that he did marry a 9 yr old girl ...

[@AbdulQadir-sp9gc]

@@faithfultheology: I can understand your pain to know the truth.

[@lolafalana492]

@@faithfultheology honey u misunderstood not 9 yrs old but 19 yrs old, where do u get this news from????

[@manticomar1146]

Y is it so hard to just belive jesus was just a normal human with great charcter who preached to worship god like hundreds of other prophets b4 him and died like everyone else

[@rosemariebufkin8082]

Bart Erhman, teaches the bible better, than pastor's. I don't think many pastor's know what they are talking, about. All they know how, and what to say, is that we are going to hell unless we believe every word of the bible. God in some parts of the bible seems very cruel, yet they say that God loves us.

[@mukrimhabeeb]

My understanding as to how Jesus became God, from Dr. Ehrman's deep study, his literary works on Christology & his lectures is that in all likelihood Paul the actual founder about the religion about Jesus was a very smart man, highly literate, before becoming Christian was torn between his Jewish faith & Pagan cultures of Europe prevalent & dominant at that & he amalgamated both as he wanted & which was palatable to the Europeans & pushed it quite vigorously & successfully. He was a good businessman & knew how to attract his customers. What is most perplexing is how come there is not 1 manuscript available to this day if my understanding is correct, in the language that Jesus spoke, Armaic !! So Christianity is in all likelihood founded by Paul for the Romans originally mixing his Jewish background, using a Jewish preacher.

[@twstdelf]

Great series! Thanks for posting.

[@athanasiusjames1]

Yes! Brilliant!

[@elainegoad2111]

Absolutely Brilliant ! Thank you Dr. Ehrman !

[@faustus999]

Go out and purchase every book he's written, very enlightening and extremely interesting.

[@robfre3183]

Such an outstanding lecturer!!

[@chrislittman]

If I showed this to my church I would be banned and labelled a heretic

[@dimitri1225]

Because you are a heretic.

[@ndjarnag]

@@dimitri1225 true hurts man

[@ChiefCowpie]

Someday your church will find out that they are the heretics.

[@rachellebrady1517]

I needed to hear this!

[@pamelacollins1153]

I love this guy!

[@karenabrams8986]

I loved listening.

[@JoeJohnston-taskboy]

A lovely illumination of a complex topic.

[@dougarnold7955]

Thanks. I really enjoy these lectures. 🤘☺

[@truefuschniken]

Thank you sooo much for this!!!! ❤️

[@ZinduZatism]

Thank you sir , you are great man and genius, appreciate your work.

[@rayakhalwaya4087]

Enlightening 👌

[@SuLorito]

BEST Ehrman video

[@billyoumans1784]

Vivekananda said one reason Christianity is important is that it postulates the truth that human is divine. Tat tuam assi. That thou art. In his Vedanta, there is only one consciousness, Brahman, the ultimate truth, and we are all it. He saw the Christian idea that a human being could also BE G-d was as a step forward for western theology.

[@dianrobertson2185]

why did the church allow someone like bart to do a speech? I applaud them for letting in dissenting views

[@tomlee8055]

Thank you for Greece got talent video striper 😁

[@tomlee8055]

Greece,got talent striper ,nice video.thank you, you make smile😊

[@dujadobra]

I am thoroughly enjoying this☺

[@soslothful]

I have several hundred recorded lectures from The Great Courses. Very highly recommended!

[@randyw.8781]

Suddenly Jesus appears alive again to doubting Thomas. Thomas overcome with awe states Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

[@gerlan1234to]

Thomas Didymus (the twin), was he possibly doubting his own twin brother?

[@johngaccione5633]

Exactly Christ was and is Lord and God from all eternity

[@victoriadjog109]

Thanks

[@josphat1619]

Great Dr

[@piushalg8175]

Just to remind you: Flesh in Latin means "caro", the genitiv of "caro" being "carnis" (= stem). Hence the term "incarnatio".

[@borna1231]

12: 54 Hehe, I bet Bart would find it amusing that South Slavic people indeed call Rome Rim (pronaunced Reem) :). Amazing series of lectures!

[@mrk4022]

in old Russian it was "Rum" (room), but it is "Rim" in modern Russian as well.

[@karolw.5208]

@@mrk4022 In Polish it is 'Rzym' [zhym]

[@barbarathanks5483]

suljeuk of rum is the name for the turks of rome I believe it is pronounced Rum... so close to Reem!

[@TheophilsChristianos]

Thank you thank you thank you for make me stronger believer. Christ is risen Alleluia.

[@foxandbarrettshow6916]

Theophilοs Researcher close your eyes steal your heart and seal away your mind your refrigerator runs on cosmic black hole energy

[@NoWay1969]

We see the Isis/Osiris connection with the Madonna iconography of the early church. We have Mary and child images from the second century in the Catacombs of Priscilla. There's a good case to be made that this was syncretized from Egyptian culture. Christianity has a long tradition of doing this, and many protestants would not even argue with the idea of the Madonna being syncretized. They would claim that it's indicative of pagan catholicism, ignoring the fact that protestantism grows out of the catholic tradition not parallel to it.

[@jamestcatcato7132]

At last, somebody who sees and states truth!

[@TorianTammas]

No Way - So true!!!!!!

[@timopeltonen975]

Three was a big jewish population in Alexandria, Egypt. Interaction between religious religious beliefs seem very likely to me.

[@kendrajade6688]

What, that imagery was borrowed? Sure, why not?

[@dorange_]

also in Babylonia age.. Namrud + semiramis(mother) + Thamuz(son)= 1 family

[@scottgrohs5940]

The adoptive view on Christ makes more sense to me from an ecumenical perspective. If Jesus wasn’t fully human at first, then how could he have understood the sorts of inner jihads us humans endure - and have the full human experience - and what kind of a example would he be if Jesus had the connection to all the answers to begin with and so didn’t have to live by faith like the rest of us?

[@canadianatheist3578]

The bird is the word

[@paxmule]

Have you heard??

[@garyoleyar]

I often engage in debate with believers, sometimes employing information i've managed to glean from discussions and lectures that i watch here on YT. i won't be using any of Bart Ehrman' s because my head won't stop spinning. Bravo, and i'm glad you're doing this important work.

[@stourleykracklite7663]

Ehrman makes it clear in lecture #1 he is not talking about belief.

[@vidakalhoor8310]

Thank You Mr. Barth Ehrman You Are Divine Human

[@louismartin4078]

We are all unique and all chips off the divine block.

[@gamerknown]

It's bitterly ironic, given how inextricably state power is linked to religion, that the site of the first constitution to explicitly derive its power from the populace rather than from the divine became the bedrock of fundamentalism. Many of the phrases used to describe god also tie him to temporal power: king of kings, lord, messiah. Then the reverse occurred with mundane monarchs, even after the reformation, claiming divine prerogative: "a deo rex, a rege lex". In England the head of state is also the head of the army and the head of the church.

[@bijo720]

Good one bart

[@yosemitejam]

Thank you for the insight of divinity and how it was bestowed by humanity. This clears up so many questions about the evolution of the Hypostasis and why it was necessary to answer for the Orthodox Church.

[@gbeachy2010]

The letters of Paul must have served a different function in those days than correspondence we think of today (but before email!). Paul makes reference to stories he's heard concerning issues in the various churches. How did he receive the information? Word of mouth or letters he received? I've never heard of extant letters TO Paul, only from him. Do any letters to Paul exist or are there even references to such letters? If ever discovered they would certainly help fill in the gaps regarding the early church.

[@shaunigothictv1003]

Excellent point.

[@ResearchTheology]

Popping sounds galore .... clearly much of the crowd from the first session were so deflated with the truth and lack of evidence to the biblical narrative that they decided to remain in their ignorance. So much more comfortable than actually having to think about it critically and intellectually.

[@ProphetpuppetMtm]

Why does this incredible speaker get thumbs down? It tells me that some people do not like to hear truth,I guess they love their delusions.

[@sagebias2251]

Great lecture. Anybody have the audio of the ending?

[@joydiv0]

TTC or TGC lectures are great. Strongly advisable if you enjoy expanding your knowledge.

[@sonofsoweto]

What are those?

[@aspreedacore]

so john writings is after pauls? That explains A LOT

[@soslothful]

Such as?

[@sonofsoweto]

@@soslothful such as romulus being rome

[@steppenwolf3252]

No it's before. But you can google it for yourself. However I do know Paul never met John, Mark, Luke or Matthew. Paul never met Jesus either

[@slickmcCool]

@@steppenwolf3252 All the gospels were written after most of the books _attributed_ to Paul. It's possible that no one met Mark, Matthew, Luke or John. They are not actually the authors of the gospels, just names assigned to them a few hundred years later.

[@melbied6215]

@@steppenwolf3252 - Absolutely Paul’s writings were before the gospels. YOU can Google it. Paul wrote around 40-50 CE, Mark (the first gospel) was written in the 60s at the earliest, but probably the 70s.

[@scr2829]

If you believe strongly enough in it you will put it upon the world. Son of Man=Son of belief.

[@dynamic9016]

Great lecture

[@matthewjames9209]

very good teaching. Insight into ancient near eastern thinking. Being Christian I don't think anything he said poses a problem to any of my theology. Was just amazing insight. Cue comments attacking me!

[@kmaybe123]

Every Christian in the world should see/hear all three parts of this lecture. Maybe then, the world would start referring to Christianity as Christian mythology just like we do with Greek mythology, because that's exactly what it is! Thanks, Bart Ehrman, for debunking Christianity and exposing it for exactly what it is! Everyone should share this video with everyone, everywhere. Screw "the word"--spread the "facts"!

[@louismartin4078]

Karen Mayberry, Myths are not to be understood literally. It's a way human beings understand their world and very often there is truth in most myths.

[@brendancarlton7326]

I used to think the "Jesus was a historical figure who people later came to believe was God," was a crazy and cynical theory but then Trump and the Qanon theory happened and it isn't crazy or cynical, it's how people and religions work.

[@chinnanmechery1026]

I am born to a Christian family, and all throughout my life I have maintained that following Christ is Christianity. I still maintain it. But that means following Christ and not considering him God. Because the minute you see him as God, you start ignoring what he taught. You feel as though since you have Christ you don't need to look at anything else. That is the current propaganda. Christ did say that a rich man trying to get through heaven is like a camel trying to come through a pinhole. I know a lot of pastors who are rich just because of preaching. The Roman Catholic church, pagan beliefs or not , are at least trying to preserve his teachings through charity and education.

[@muhammedalosh7950]

chinnan mechery bro if u think that jesus isn't a God then u r Muslim 😀

[@arnoldallen240]

You are a smart man. I've been saying this for years. Christianity don't teach Jesus teaching,they teach their own. That's why I don't follow Christianity.

[@alsanabani]

chinnan mechery Honey, you are not a Christian if you don't believe in the Trinity (the divinity of Jesus).

[@collinvincent6075]

Muhammed alsoh Not necessarily. You could be a pagan, an atheist, a hindu, a deist, etc. For one to be a muslim they must believe there is only one god, and that Muhammed is his prophet. So a person can be a monotheist and not believe that the child raping, slave taking, illiterate, warlord, Muhammed was the prophet of the god they believe in. Thus making them not Muslim.

[@collinvincent6075]

alsanabani That's a no-true scotsman fallacy. While it's generally understood that Christian refers to some one who believes Jesus was the Christ, what that means varies. Take Unitarians, not Unitarian Universalists, but og Unitarians. They are a nominally Christian sect that does not believe in the Trinity. They are monotheists who follow the teachings of Jesus, but do not believe as a church that Jesus was a god. Remember the Trinity doesn't exist as a concept in the bible. While the precursor claims may exist within the source material there is never any claim about the trinity, it's a later explanation for why christians who believe in multiple forms of god, aren't pagans.

[@Onemessagefoundationismyfav]

Dr Ehrman is not saying anything out of his own pocket. He is talking exactly what your book is saying, which you Christian don’t even know or read. Sad

[@vejeke]

It's not because they're Christians, it's because they've been indoctrinated. All those who have been indoctrinated in a particular religion do the same with their sacred books and doctrines. All human beings who are religious think they believe in the right religion. All of them.

[@sharpshot6111]

@@vejeke Being indoctrinated is an issue, if you allow that indoctrination to distort sound reason. Believing in something when overwhelming evidence proves otherwise is ignoring your own rationality (6000 year old earth). Yet, believing in God is not something irrational. We can't dismiss the possibility of a creator when the knowledge we have in science and the creation of the universe is of yet unexplained. Also, in most religions the supreme being doesn't seem to want anything from us but to treat one another justly and with compassion. It's we humans that sometimes abuse the essence of these religions for our own benefits. Peace brother.

[@brentanoschool]

Trinity - united in essence - divided in persons - God having life within Himself

[@Robert_St-Preux]

Frankly, _united in essence, divided in person_ sounds like a pretty picturesque definition of _polytheism_ .

[@287_shaikhmustafa7]

But God saya in OT My glory will i not give to another How can you say the he shared his glory with 2 other persons?

[@tomatensalat7420]

So, why did people do it when they thought it was wrong? Kliffhanger ':o

[@shonagraham2752]

Because its more than that, John is the equivalent of saying existentialism came down to Earth and became Joe Bloggs or Utilitarianism became down to Earth and became Mary Smith its radical and it recreates the world from the beginning. Its the same with Karl Marx communism is something humans had from the beginning the cavemen practiced it - just evil forces called capitalism that have corrupted it. It is saying I know why you feel alienated this is how the world was before and this is how its been corrupted and changed that's why you feel alienated.

[@sabinapaul3403]

They did not think analytically. They thought with conviction. They can"t be blamed. They were not scholars.

[@samman4602]

Question of the millenum

[@dreamcatcher6925]

Because once your belief has have gotten you to a certain point, and you witness such traumatic death of your friend, the only way to cope or find the meaning in your experience is to stay on the path - make it matter, make it real, validate your existence and justify the cruel murder of your friend. Once you see your bff crucified before your eyes, things have gone way too far to reverse course. You ride that train - any other course of belief would make it all futile/ pointless and nobody’s going down that path. Ride or Die. (Not saying this is the truth - it is just an explanation that also makes sense to me) (Also, how well is the martyrdom of the Apostles really validated/ fact-checked? Outside of the Bible. I’m not an expert, but this apostle storyline seems hard to verify to me.)

[@steppenwolf3252]

Do what?

[@kenmcclellan]

One of the mysteries of the Bible is Deuteronomy 18 where you have the two types of exalted ones that share in the Most High's authority. Later, we have an Aaronite made high priest, probably of the Essenes, John the Baptist ... and his much more famous student who believed himself a Davidian King. Does anyone teach the Two Messiah theory? Because I believe they are essential for understanding the Jews' objections to Jesus or even the connection of Judaism to earlier theologies.

[@julio14335]

Any Christian that study for a while the history of man-god doctrine in Christianity will quickly recognized that Christianity took it roots from Ancient Pagan practices. Those ideas are transported and they echo`s loudly in the pages of the Bibles.

[@ang615ushk]

+Julio Kosters They have some similar but not copy. Check again and you will see the different.

[@julio14335]

Alice Ng If something is similar that definately means the later accepts the idea, believes the idea, embrassed the idea, follows the idea, or copied the idea of the former. Choose one amongst this choice of words.

[@ang615ushk]

Similar stories does not mean the later one must know the first one. Bible is a book full of similar stories, but it is not a copy, How about chinese cannot copy the hebrew bible, but them have the same story about the great flood.

[@julio14335]

Alice Ng We are not talking about stories here friend, we are talking about the Most fundamental belief i.e knowing who Our Creator God is.

[@ang615ushk]

God is no way we can understand him, unless He let us know, therefore all other religions using the same method is writing or books. So Bible and other writing we need to find out which one is real or all fake. If there is a God, then we go to the next step, that if the bible is real. Check it out yourself.

[@189Blake]

1:36:56 Yeah Bart, Why they do it? I wanna know :(

[@petersinclair3997]

Production. I have had some of my curricula turned into TV Ed., where, as Content Producer, I was introduced to Noddies. Here the known talent nods to questions, asked previously by an unknown to the interviewee. After editing, the audience wrongly thinks the TV Talent has been asking the questions of the guest, when, in fact, it has been someone else.

[@calmont34]

If theology were a legitimate field of study, it wouldn't be a problem for historians to borrow from it.

[@Thedamped]

haha yeah, funny how delicate he handled that. All other sciences don't mind borrowing from each other and cross those lines.

[@passives0n]

Calmont < Actually my friend, theology is a legitimate field of study and throughout history every element of human life has built our society on it. In our values and morality, religious or not, our laws, ethics and cultures are based on theological idioms. Much of our business practices and logos come from mythology. Court proceedings derive out of codex and conon law. Swearing on the Bible, and penalties for perjury. Even our political systems and government authority is built from theology. We use terms like a Herculean task, taking the hot seat, Godfather, black market and underground. Apollo rockets, Hell fire missiles, being a Godsent, a saving grace, a God of something (war, making love, sport player).

[@Thedamped]

+No Quarter I think you misunderstand the point of the comment. They don't yield reproducible, concrete useful answers to questions. All implications of whether God is 3 in 1 or simply 1 or simply 3 are theological and ambiguous. I believe this is what is meant by it not being legitimate, but obviously an adjective like legitimate is interpreted contextually and subjectively. Clearly religion has been an important cultural element in the forming of our society. But these things are ambiguous, it's not like we couldn't have godfathers until we figured out what to call them, anymore than we wouldn't have cat burglars if we never had cats. In addition I think you are confusing theology with religion. Jesus forbade swearing in Matthew 5, surely any Christian theologian could tell you that. Yet a superstitious peasant might be more likely to tell the truth if he thinks God will smite him for fibbing after he swore on the Bible. Exploiting the superstitions of the masses to solidify governmental control has a long history and I don't see how that sheds any light on whether or not theology is a "legitimate field of study".

[@theofulk5636]

If History were a legitimate field of study, people wouldn't have a non-knowledgable speaker like Ehrman trying to explain Theology. He's a 'historian', right? And people are going to learn about Divinity from an ATHEIST ?

[@aarifboy]

This guy is a hypocrite like u who is trying to find history from books of theology and is still thankless to theologians hehe. You cant find right from wrong things lol. Typical Jewish approach, is he a Jew?

[@hzoonka4203]

Not many people in the Church,wonder WHY?

[@steppenwolf3252]

Quantity is no guarantee of quality

[@adrianjanssens7116]

I notice fewer people in the audience. Word probably got out he was on to something that could trash their whole belief system. Best to avoid anything like that.

[@harrisdupree3323]

True belief can't be shaken much less trashed. The only thing clowns like Ehrman serve to do is clear weeds out of the garden. For someone who is held as a Leading scholar he has a poor grasp of the historicity of the Torah and Mosaic Law and it's relationship upon the Ancient Hebrew peoples. I especially get a laugh out of his having referred to it as "Not particularly egregious" That statement alone makes me wonder whether he's even read the Old Testament.

[@first99967]

Harris Dupree Well said. His inability to grasp major Biblical concepts is obvious. Either Ehrman is cherry picking or lying.

[@coosoorlog]

the dead sea called. it needs the salt back

[@Onemessagefoundationismyfav]

Adrian Janssens, it is exactly like the sick who are scared of visiting a doctor simply they don’t want to hear that something is seriously wrong with them. They prefer to live as they are at least they are living.

[@ibatan2981]

@Harris Dupree, I say Bart is a hypocrite and a deceiver. His bad intentions is to hide the part of the truth that will prove him wrong. Also to misinterpret the part that he likes to show that he's right. He doesn't believe that the gospel is inspired by the Holly Spirit; thus, he's demanding eye witnesses for every incident/saying in the gospel. e.g. how did they hear what Pilate said to Jesus and back unless Pilate made a news conference after the trial. There is absolutely no need to any eye witness. The Holly Spirit inspired each of the disciples to write what has happened and each one of them wrote it in his own style. (thus minor differences). I can tell that he's not Christian anymore as he's calling the era after Jesus Christ as 'C.E. (Current Era) vs. the Christian way of 'A.D'. (Ano Domini or the Year of the Lord.) Thus he does not believe that Jesus is our ONLY God.; He stated that only in John that Jesus claims to be God. He does not want to mention, Luke 1:43 were Elizabeth (John's The Baptist mother) confirms that the Virgin Mary is 'the mother of my God' and NOT the mother of my prophet. There are other places too but this is the easiest. After his resurrection, most disciples admitted that Jesus Christ is our GOD. Luke 24:45-47 and worshiped him Luke 24:52. Our Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled many of the old-testament prophecies abt him till the last minute before he died. The Gospel was written in Aramaic Hebrew but original copies were destroyed/confiscated by the Romans/Sanhedrin troops. Many other copies were destroyed during the almost first 312 years of Christianity by the Romans, Jews and the pagans. Obviously, they did not have any respect to our scriptures and did not preserve them in their Librairies. Later copies of our gospel were written in Greek/other languages as the disciples, and by the power of the Holly Spirit, started to speak in tongues. Greek was the most common language in the Roman Empire provinces. Thus a Greek gospel will be understood by much more people than any other language. There are more other verses that prove that our ONLY LORD/GOD JESUS CHRIST IS THE MOST HIGH AND THE GREATEST EVER. Certainly, Bart will sell his books/shows quicker and for more if he takes the counter-Christian side. Most of the times, he doesn't even give any evidence to his opinions/sayings but demand evidence for everything stated in the gospels.

[@ks-qu4kj]

brilliant

[@andrewlailvaux1571]

Jesus didn't become God He always was God.

[@HilyahAsSalaf]

You missed the entire point of the video lol

[@robertotorino8862]

I understand why certain people listen to him, "when God wants a thing to happen, God just needs to say let they be light" if indeed light was what God wanted, I know Bart did not say those exact words,

[@eho6380]

He said that ''The Word'' is separate from God, yet at 57:40 he says that ''Christ'' created everything? I'm confused at this point. Did he contradict himself for a second?

[@brucethomson3512]

Seems like he must of read the New Testament a few times 😁 I only read it once many years ago. Never again 😊

[@slimfadey1901]

I had a fundamentalist pastor arguing the divinity of Christ tell me that the phrase "only begotten" originally meant "of the essence of" instead of "offspring of God". He was saying that this shows Jesus wasn't a created being. Is there anything to that idea? Is it supported by history.? Would appreciate info.

[@Dickers]

Just look it up, begotten means "fathered', so only begotten son means it's the only son he has, it doesn't have anything to do with essence, I don't think.

[@scienceexplains302]

According to Exodus, etc, Judaism exalted the slave child Moses and others to high positions, so there is precedent .

[@AdonaiZedek]

You wont find any historical account of Moses in Egypt.. He didnt exist. You wont find an Exodus. Look up an earlier figure Sargon. This is what Moses template came from,

[@jbdbibbaerman8071]

@@AdonaiZedek It doesn't matter if he did or not as long as adherents to Judaism THOUGHT he did. The point would still apply then

[@mtlobasz]

It seems to me that Christology and the earlier deification of Jesus was an apologetic by the early Church to the fact that Jesus died a shameful death as a common criminal by crucifixion.

[@objectiveincision3970]

1:08:19 - Brilliant!

[@DerekHowden]

Paul thought Jesus was transformed by faith and became the first born of God He also taught that the law can relieve you of the burden of guilt by complying with the law and he tried to describe the predicament of the never ending do not touch wet paint syndrome and the freedom found by faith in the spirit of God And described sin as someone who thought the law did not apply to them and they were above the law and said sin is lawlessness

[@ToninoterRessort]

Holy Spirit guides in to truth and makes the red line very clear. God stooped down in Christ to give us freely, by His own all atoning Holy Blood and indwelling Holy Spirit, the divine life back, the first Adam lost in the fall of man. God has already come full circle. Hence the healing miracles with Christians who understand....

[@markbennett7797]

Jesus has always been God, the Son of God. 1Timothy 3;16 states, "God was manifest in the flesh".

[@HilyahAsSalaf]

That doesn't even say Jesus

[@roosmarcel1968]

Behold the hand, behold the nail

[@BlGGESTBROTHER]

Around 1:00:00 Bart says that Christian exaltation of Jesus was different because he was powerless. Isn’t that in direct conflict with common themes in the gospels such as Jesus being without sin, having power over nature (calming the storm, walking on water, feeding thousands with 2 fish), and the miracles he reportedly worked. All of this would seem to indicate that early Christians thought of Christ as a superhuman, much like how the Greeks saw Hercules.

[@robkey2476]

The whole story is so full of contradictions and assumptions that it is only possible to make any sense of it is by twisting oneself into intricate pretzels to explain it all. Nonsense from beginning to end. Amazing that so many scholars spend years and years explaining that fairy tales are, indeed, fairy tales.

[@samman4602]

The Quran puts sense into the whole thing if you read it with an open mind and objectively

[@jckensway2956]

Sam Man give me a sense of this ‘sense’. (No pun intended.)

[@AdeptPaladin]

Sam Man No, it doesn’t. It’s the exact same story but with Mohammed replacing Jesus.

[@steppenwolf3252]

There is a rich mythology passed down in many cultures that's much richer and more meaningful than a "fairy tale." It gives humans ideals to follow and uses human nature to tell sacred tales. Kind of like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. Humans need ideals and hero stories to give them something which will give their lives meaning. They find your kind of cynicism and denigration of such important epics depressing and destructive. We crave spirituality and a mythology to show us how to live and to aspire for a better life, Your words are so empty and soul-destroying. It offers no hope. It gives no strength. It covers us in darkness and negativity. I know it's the curse of our current culture. But that's no reason we must surrender to such misery and hopelessness.

[@abortretryfail9350]

@End Game Your mind needs to be open enough for your brain to fall out. 😂

[@5T4RSCREAM233]

This is great Bart. But I am sure you know if you compare Word across culture including Hindu texts, Gnostic texts such as the Divine Pymander, Gospel of the Egyptians, Collossians 1:15 & 16 and even examining Cathedral art, you will see the word is cosmos manifested as an image of mind... I like hearing your take though. But across culture I see a pattern of Man being fashioned as the cosmos which is fashioned after mind.

[@5T4RSCREAM233]

Joshua Privett Well first of all, it is not MY bible... it is just another book. The ancient Hindu say the universe slumbers and then exists for 4,320,000,000,000 years. The bible version created after the Hindu texts does not correctly define a year. One day of Brahma is over 4 billion years. The ancient Hindu have been referenced many times by scientists as being on point including people like Carl Sagan. In your ignorance "bruh", you assumed I was a Christian. I am only commenting on the lecture. We can talk Blavatsky, Qabalah, Gnosis, Bible, science, whatever you like... it matters not to me because I can see the truths in all of them with a little critical analysis. I can also see the fallacy. Good day.

[@Thedamped]

Can you give a few specific examples of the Hindu text being referenced as "spot on"?

[@mcjoe2635]

this.

[@FreemanPresson]

Danny Wilten Dr. Ehrman specializes in NT literature and the early history of Christianity.

[@ClassicusHomo]

The emperor Tiberius was not divinized. The Senate hated him and would rather have his memory condemned. And certainly Augustus did not become Caesar's heir instead of Caesarion because he was Caesar's adopted son - but because Caesarion was Caesar's son with Cleopatra, queen of Egypt, not considered legitimate from the Roman point of view and a minor of about three years at the time of Caesar's death.

I strongly disagree with one thing said in the Q&A section of this lecture: that 'Forgery and Counter-forgery' is a book you wouldn’t want to read if you’re a layperson. I’m glad that I had already read the 'popular audience' version and some of your other books first, or I’d have lacked the background to understand enough of the knowledge 'Forgery…' assumes its reader will have to follow-but having read some of your popular works, including 'Forged', I found it fascinating. Seeing the more extensive arguments in a scholarly work fleshes out a lot of the details and lingering questions of "What basis do you have for saying this or that?" I was left with after reading the popular version. (Which is not a criticism: leaving out the mass details seems rather the point of writing a popular version.)

[@RestoringReality]

* Bart, Please explain to me by what means you call Paul an Apostle? Does Constintine get to be the 14th Apostle if S/Paul is permitted to call himself the 13th Apostle? If so, may i nominate Joel Osteen to be the 15th Apostle? When Judas was replaced with Mathias, there was a vote of the only two men available who even met the criteria required to be an Apostle. Where was the son of the richest woman in Rome, the man to wealthy to become a disciple first in order to be trained up in how to one day become an Apostle? Please, i beg you, enlighten me? Best i can tell by two or three witnesses, S/Paul confesses himself a liar with three (Paul and his disciple Luke.) entirely different contradictory conversion stories. Please advise? Tks.

[@ginagalea566]

For me people make religion for there own sake and mixed ppl mind...if there is God how can do everything why didn't have made 1 religion

[@theofulk5636]

The fact that Paul admits to a lie, as well as "what some call heresy" is partly answered by the "EXCEPTION CLAUSE"----that, for sake of Life, no other commandments have priority. Ask a Rabbi, or find it in a "basics of Judaism" book. Every ACT which is devoutly followed according to this principle is helped by Godly provision.

[@steppenwolf3252]

Jesus tells us there are only 2 commandments: Love the spirit (aka God) with your whole heart, soul, body and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. There's nothing about any exception clause for the sake of life.

[@royindrasyah4446]

Why did Peter never mention in this lecture? Wasn't that Peter important figure in Christianity?

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

I suggest that when Jesus said, "There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man come with power..." AND THEN, as the text says, "And after 6 days He took them up the mountain....." AND THEN, we see the highly significant, type/antitype picture of the second coming. This actually blows out of the water the claim that Jesus thought the end was at His time. So was this story not real? if not then what purpose was it inserted into the narrative? To teach doctries of the future second coming. So that says the writer was fully aware that the made up religion was to be invented with the known idea of a later return of Jesus. For if anyone was developing or inventing this religion it was the writer if the documents.

[@RoseSharon7777]

Scripture would help. Which book and chapter are you referring?

[@dune2024]

according to the early chucrh writings, the "canonic gospel of john" was written by CERINTHUS who was a former follower of john. he was EXPELLED by john surely for sth serious

[@timopeltonen975]

Paul presented a hymn which declares that Jesus was an angel-like, pre-existent divine figure, right? Was this protocol in line with the Jerusalem Church and with Peter? This doesn't sound very convincing with the theory which claims that the first Christians believed that Jesus was exalted at the resurrection.

[@dingdongism]

Exactly. I think that for this issue more than any other I want to buy Bart's book to see how he resolves this. He has me thinking very linearly with the Christology developments in Mark-->Matthew/Luke-->John. But Paul messes everything up and I still don't understand how he fits in...maybe I'm insisting on a linear narrative and it's blinding me to how it actually developed? Sidenote: I also want to know more about how he decides which pieces in Paul are part of the pre-literary tradition and why, if this tradition contradicts Paul's Christology, Paul includes them in his writings!