How Long could I Survive as a World War I Pilot ? | Sopwith Camel Dogfight Fokker Dr.1 |

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Check out the Merch Store: growling-sidewinder.creator-spring.com/ American Murder Hornet Hoodie: growling-sidewinder.creator-spring.com/listing/american-murder-hornet-bluepri?product=227 I'm A Cat Person Hoodie: growling-sidewinder.creator-spring.com/listing/i-m-a-cat-person-f-14-tomcat?product=227 Turns out I would have died a terrible death during World War 1scoring only 2 kills...

[@steveshoemaker6347]

🛩💣👍👀

[@spazmodicusrex6629]

Considering the Dr.1 out-turns and out-climbs EVERYTHING at any altitude and you jumped into a scenario any non-suicidal pilot wouldn't touch with a 100-foot pole and a squad would be in the right to refuse to follow, you did pretty well, IMO.

[@toastmeister6806]

They said the Sopwith Camel would give you one of 3 crosses: 1. The Victoria’s Cross 2. The Red Cross 3. The Wooden Cross

[@loumencken9644]

GS: "I just shot his wing off." German pilot: "No problem; I've got two more."

[@hkguitar1984]

OMG, insane flying. The damage on that Fokker Dr.1 at 8:39 is crazy, it looked more like that German Pilot was riding a toboggan than flying a plane. RIP Luftwathe Pilot , he had a successful bail-out just as the plane (and himself) made contact with terra-firma...........

[@veritasardens6547]

He would have just had to lower his airspeed to regain stability mid-flight to a certain degree. But how slow he has to fly is the question, it will be of no use if that speed was below stall-speed.

[@CrazyChemistPL]

Don't forget that small... wing(let?) Dr.I has between its landing gear

[@davidburroughs2244]

2 and 1/2 they used to say, actually

[@Optimaloptimus]

@@hkguitar1984 The Germans didn’t have the Luftwaffe during WWI. During WWI their Air Force was called “The Deutsche Luftstreitkräfte” which plainly translates to German Air Force before Oct. 1916. Afterwards they were known as “Die Fliegertruppen des deutschen Kaiserrieches” which translates to Imperial German Flying Corps.

[@CrazyChemistPL]

Sopwith Camel due to its rotary (not radial) engine, was infamously easier to turn right than left, to the point that apparently it was sometimes faster to just turn right 270 degrees rather than attempt 90 degree left turn.

[@toolbaggers]

Do not confuse a piston powered "rotary" engine with a real pistonless wankel rotary engine like what a Mazda uses. opposed

[@sugarnads]

@@toolbaggers he isnt. The early rotaries were notorious for being great turners in the direction of rotation. The prop was mounted directly to the engine and the ENGINE spins thus turning the prop. Which is a ROTARY engine as the engine literally rotates while being fixed to the airframe thus imparting a massive torque effect to the airframe Nothing he says has ANYTHING to do with modern NSU style rotaries.

[@CrazyChemistPL]

@@toolbaggers More common aviation radial engines have fixed engine body (cylinder block) and include a camshaft that control the movement of cylinders inside the body of the engine. But before this kind of engine became prevalent (along with inline aviation engines), planes like Sopwith Camel or indeed Fokker Dr.I, used rotary engines which pretty much worked in reverse - the camshaft was stationary and mounted to the airframe while the engine body/cylinder block rotated around it forcing cylinder movement inside (as the axis of the camshaft and engine were somewhat shifted). The large mass of rotating cylinder block created large ammount of precession which made planes easier to turn the same way the engine was turning (to the right in case of the Camel).

[@jefftheriault5522]

The interesting thing about a rotary engine is that the crankshaft is fixed to firewall. I'll let you work out the rest for yourself.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

Also note the thing turns into the other direction on the Fokker. So the Fokker is better in left hand turns, the Camel is better in right hand turns. Also the Dr.I needs a ton of rudder work. If you can fly that thing decently, dogfighting in the F-14 in DCS is a brisk stroll in the park.

[@43coralsea]

Oswald Boelcke German Ace father of the flying circus mentor of Manfred Von Richthofen WW1 holder of the Blue Max wrote the rules, the book on Aerial combat

[@ErnestBord9of9]

The "Dicta Boelcke" It still applies today.

[@43coralsea]

I think they had more than a clue but like in all things new those guys were the pioneers writing the book as it were the tactics and procedures were new the aircraft were new the weapons were new but the pilots had the oldest human motivator "staying alive" so they learned quickly, adapted, improvised or died

[@QuietlyWatchingTheWorldBurn]

Thanks for giving this history buff a solid reading suggestion.

[@EvisceradorSC2]

Came here to say that. Thanks.

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

Should also mention that the original Immelmann turn was a tactic that originated from WW1.

[@mower2008]

Shooting a WW1 plane with those machine guns is like the old wooden warships of the Revolutionary era trying to sink each other without exploding shells. You have to pepper the enemy severely before the machine starts to feel those hits.

[@joshDammmit]

They had exploding shot, bro

[@mower2008]

@@joshDammmit Yes, but not EVERY ship did.

[@Maria_Erias]

In both cases, it probably fell back to the same effort: kill the enemy crew. During the Imperial Age, most naval engagements didn't end up with ships sinking (unless something caused the ship's magazine to explode). Most of the time, ships were forced into surrender or retreat mostly due to their crews being decimated. Sinking a wooden warship is *hard* because, duh, wood floats. You've really got to shoot it apart to get one to sink. And by the time you do, most of the crew's dead and the ship's out of commission, so pounding away at it is pointless.

[@Noisy_Cricket]

@@joshDammmit not until the 19th century, as far as I know.

[@Gunfreak19]

@@joshDammmit not in the 18th and early 19th century. Solid iron balls, case shots or chian shot was what they had. From 6pdr cannons on small brigs, to 32pdr on ship of the line and some even had the short barreled 64pdr carronade.

[@CRAZYUNCLE117]

At the end, until the airframe flipped that was a survivable 'landing'. Also, the reason why von Richthofen was pumped up in the media so much wasn't just his incredible talent in the air. It was also because the lifespan of a pilot back then was only a few months.

[@gerrycrisostomo6571]

I believe it was just about 2 weeks average starting from the first combat mission as mentioned in the World's Greatest Dogfights videos. Some pilots even got killed in their first combat mission.

[@oLevLovesLove]

@@gerrycrisostomo6571 It would be an achievement just to take off and land safely in those contraptions of string and matchsticks.

[@gerrycrisostomo6571]

@@oLevLovesLove True. At that time, man barely knew how to make and fly planes. Even the internal combustion engine was quite new and unreliable during WW1.

[@thisisrazgriz3664]

@@gerrycrisostomo6571 yeah, only a third of pilots death was due to a kill from the ennemy, most of them just died trying to pilot those things

[@gerrycrisostomo6571]

@@thisisrazgriz3664 And it's quite mind boggling to think that most of the pilot's attrition rate is due to accidents and not because of the actual battle.

[@rnw94501]

Fire only at close range and only when properly sighted. Hauptmann (Captain) Oswald Boelcke, Germany preeminent ace 1915 -1916

[@Cameron.storch]

Context?😂

[@peterweller8583]

@@Cameron.storch Boelcke Dicta the bible in those days

[@RCAvhstape]

@@Cameron.storch He wrote the book, literally a book, on dogfighting tactics in WWI, and it still holds up today.

[@jhoag56]

@@Cameron.storch Boelcke's Dictate, the first book on fighter tactics. Much of it still holds true today.

[@heinricci]

I ve read long time ago that to fly the camel they had to do a 8 week training course for the camel. After those 8 weeks there were 3 different outcomes: 1- You were dead. 2- You had a nervous breakdown. 3- You were the terror of the huns.

[@grahamshere]

The camel killed more of it's own pilots than the Germans did.

[@Syaska]

It was not uncommon on the british side for pilots to be sent to the front lines with less than 15 hours flying experience in their aircraft. The average survival time was about 50 hours in the air.

[@casinodelonge]

@@peterweller8583 Le Cleurget or Bentley surely??

[@sam1812seal]

The camel had the option of fitting a Lewis gun on the upper wing, above the cockpit. Many pilots had them removed to increase speed, just relying on the twin vickers which had a nasty habit of jamming. Cloth belts, moisture, and rapid changes in altitude/temperature are not a machine gun’s friend.

[@21wagstaff]

The Lewis was rarely used, apart from the night fighter variant I believe. The Se5 had one above the wing as standard, as did the early Nieuports

[@Maria_Erias]

Not to mention that most early WW1 aircraft got around that whole "shooting off your propeller" thing by adding armor plates to the prop, which, if a bullet was deflected by the plate, could come right back and smack the machine gun or even the pilot. It was the Germans who first started putting (somewhat unreliable) interrupter gears into their fighters in 1915, but it took the Allies longer. And even longer for truly reliable ones to be iterated.

[@21wagstaff]

@@Maria_Erias yeah, Roland Garros with his deflector plates. Total hero. The overwing Lewis did have some advantages with rate of fire, and so pilots tilted it upwards to shoot opponents in the belly. Albert Ball was supposed to use this tactic a lot in his Nieuport

[@heneagedundas]

Disintegrating belts on the Camel.

[@jonttul]

@@Maria_Erias Definitely not most. They just didn't put machineguns behind the prop.

[@toolbaggers]

The use of parachutes was highly contentious during the First World War. In World War I, the Germans began experimenting with parachutes for their pilots. Though a few pilots were saved by the parachute, in most instances the lines of the chute would become entangled with the spinning aircraft. Allied commanders did not issue parachutes to pilots, fearing they would simply jump from a plane versus trying to save it.

[@debbiestimac5175]

It is why the practice of rolling the kite/ship over and dropping out with the assistance of gravity was adopted. Pull back the canopy, pop the harness and aileron roll until you are falling and the plane is flying away above you.

[@gascan]

Rise of Flight didn't have parachutes, but since Flying Circus is part of the IL2:GB engine it has parachutes available for the German side. The poor bloody Entente pilots have to ride it all the way to the ground. It has caused a bit of contention for pilots on both sides trying to build up a kill streak, especially since some pilots shoot up the chute to guarantee a death. I'm curious to see what the developers will do in a year or two when they introduce earlier German planes that were never equipped with parachutes.

[@astorathgrim4257]

The official B,S given by generals was, that they feared it may impair a pilots nerve. Nah an we can't have that can we oh jolly what yer I wonder if they decided to stick them generals In one of those planes I wonder if the use of parachutes would have been allowed then

[@AbelMcTalisker]

Erm no, the idea that "Pilots were not given parachutes to force them to save the plane" is largely untrue. Parachutes had actually been around for almost as long as balloons and had by 1914 been developed into a decent escape system for the military observation balloons in use by that time. Trouble was the chutes in use were of the static line type where you jump out and the canopy is pulled out behind you as you drop vertically downwards. This didn`t work so well in aircraft as, unless the plane was flying straight and level the chute wouldn`t open or worse get tangled up in the plane`s airframe and get ripped apart. Also, the packs were very bulky and restricted movement, a big issue when planes had small, cramped cockpits (if they had any at all) but was less of a problem in a balloon`s basket where they could be easily hung on the outside. At the time a parachute was seen as just useless dead weight better left off to improve the performance of the aircraft or used to fit on an extra gun for the observer to shoot back at attackers. So for most of the war, parachutes were seen largely as useless for combat aircraft even by most pilots who disliked them when, (by the Germans late in 1918) they were finally provided. It wasn`t until the 1920`s that ripcord type parachutes were invented so a pilot had control over when the canopy would open and parachutes became a viable escape system for aircraft.

[@frebbbreeze2841]

Pilots used to bail just to avoid burning to death

[@sam1812seal]

No parachutes in those days. The higher-ups with lots of scrambled eggs on their hats decided that giving pilots parachutes might lead to men jumping out of perfectly serviceable aircraft; and they couldn’t have that so no bailing out back then.

[@sam1812seal]

@@Telamon8 I wonder what parachutes were given to balloon observers? Even generals realised that sending up a man in a wicker basket under highly flammable gas without a parachute might be asking a bit much.

[@laihela]

I'm pretty sure that the Germans did have parachutes, you can actually see a parachute from the guy who tried to bail at 9:04.

[@sam1812seal]

@@laihela the first German pilot to be fitted for a parachute was Unteroffizier Otto Heinecke on June 27th 1918. It was Heinecke’s own design and was later used by the British, French, and Italians as the basis for their designs. Unfortunately the pilot’s parachute was still a new technology in 1918 and about 1/3 of the first 70 to bail out with it died.

[@hateca1]

German and British had them around 1918. French and American never had them.

[@milkman6385]

What coward would ever want a parachute? Might as well wear a helmet too!

[@user-tl5fi9lz9z]

Consider that as a new RFC or RAF pilot, when you arrived in France you may have had only 12-14 hours total time. You would have never fired any guns. Never flew higher than 2000 ft. Just getting through your first flight was a miracle.

[@donkee011]

Oh, they put tactics of dogfight into words. There is a thing called Dicta Boelcke. It is still taught to pilots in modern fighter pilot academies. You should look it up.

[@FusionAero]

"Beware the Hun in the sun"

[@donkee011]

@@FusionAero I also forgot to mention that Immelmann manoeuvre, named after Max Immelmann, German WWI ace pilot.

[@FusionAero]

@@donkee011 "Going Vertical" Half-loop with a half-roll on top. Now we try to read the bogie's energy state and distance, asking ourselves "Can he do that?" back then the Allies called Immelman "a demon who could warp wood and canvas to do his will"

[@lemax6865]

The Dicta was distributed in 1916, and the Entente didn't get their own version until 1918. Meaning, for a good part of the War, it hadn't been put to the written word and pilots figured it out as they went (well, those who lived).

[@chrissinclair8705]

Ironically the hurricane with a wooden and fabric fuselage had a similar behavior. The German defensive machine guns were just single 7.92x57's in pods around the aircraft and the hurricane could take a surprising amount of punishment. Some pilots even preferred the hurricane for taking out bombers because it was a very stable gun platform that could take some hits, while the spitfires took on the ME109's. Also due to their mostly wood and fabric construction(the wings were metal) they could be repaired surprisingly fast.

[@rickwalker2]

It also had it’s guns placed much closer together which, due to the narrow convergence, made hitting what the pilot was aiming at easier. In BoB it was undoubtably a better option than the Spit for taking on bombers.

[@debbiestimac5175]

From what I have read, the repair speed is what made them invaluable, not the hits they could take. All metal Spits required specialized tools and skill sets (new at the time), whereas most any flight ops tech in the RAF knew how to patch and dope fabric in a hurry.

[@MrElis420]

Still would prefer a Spitfire if a ME-109 is behind me or shooting at me

[@rickwalker2]

@@MrElis420 me too!

[@edmundscycles1]

The 20mm cannon on the Bf109 would also not detinate when hitting the hurricane as the doped fabric wouldn't depress the fuse of the shell.

[@yusetsuarez1459]

This is one of my favorites GS videos ever. I'm impressed. I admire those WW1 and WW2 braves pilots and soldiers. Those were real men, no joke.

[@tfilmyr]

I read somewhere that Richthofen picked his targets carefully from less competent flyers, got his easy kill and left the area. It didn't pay to repeatedly press your luck with even matchups.

[@matta5498]

Sound strategy.

[@wanyelewis9667]

Pretty sure MVR didn't get 80 kills and survive as long as he did by picking fights with the likes of Albert Ball or Edward Mannock.

[@frebbbreeze2841]

He also used height and sun to his advantage. The sun was huge thing in tactics

[@thomasmusso1147]

The Movie 'Aces High' gives an insight into what WW1 Fighter Pilots went through. If hit, not killed and then caught fire, there were three options .. burn, jump, or both. Those 'in charge' of the RFC (Royal Flying Corps) were initially reluctant to give their pilots parachutes as it would encourage 'cowardice and such'. Obviously, none of those decision-makers ever got anywhere near to sitting in an aeroplane, let alone flying into combat in one. Estimates vary .. but the average life expectancy of a WW1 Fighter Pilot has been quoted at 3 Weeks .. varying from 20 minutes for Novices to 10 weeks for Canadians. It also depended on the aircraft flown .. some having a higher attrition rate than others. Being able to 'sleep off the ground' between sheets, enjoy evenings in the local pub and munch on egg, bacon and toast breakfasts had its price.

[@Rubberweasel]

The Camel was a very hard plane for beginners but a favorite of veterans, it had a tendency/ability to snap in the opposite direction of the propeller. The snap killed plenty of new pilots and helped down plenty of enemies.

[@christophergodawski5663]

GS: "I didn't even see the pilot trying to get out" Small detail: most of the WWI fighter pilots didn't fly with parachutes, because of various reasons, most infamously because they would be "more motivated to fight, rather than bale out at the first sign of trouble".

[@bonidle726]

The Germans did issue their pilots with parachutes, it was the RFC that thought they would be counter productive to their pilots courage.......we British always tend to be behind the curve. It’s not one of our best qualities.

[@fenwickthompson99]

@@bonidle726 The germans only issued their pilots with parachutes in mid 1918. Only 50 successful bailouts were made by german pilots. Also the parachute ripcord was attached to the aircraft.

[@Dcook85]

Flying slower than most modern stall speeds, in a glorified hang glider with a seat, so you can get close enough to spray small arms fire at a guy who you can see needs a good shave.

[@Maria_Erias]

Before they started putting machine guns on aircraft, pilots actually shot at each other with pistols. Can you even imagine what that must have been like?

[@Dcook85]

@@Maria_Erias Now THAT is a merge!

[@UMSLdragon]

@@Maria_Erias Initially they were just recon planes and enemy pilots would wave at each other. Then one chap had the idea of not letting that recon intel go back to base by means of a pistol. Thus the first dog fight and aerial kill was scored.

[@ironchicken7240]

@@Maria_Erias just a joke, but I bet someone tried to throw a knife, or better, flick a lit match to set the fabric alight

[@wanyelewis9667]

@@ironchicken7240 indeed, the very first encounters, even before firearms were used, did in fact involve the recon observers throwing objects at the enemy planes as they passed in close proximity to each other.

[@danielheidecke5862]

I was asking myself about the small propeller on the right wing strut - it drives a fuel pump: "To ensure an adequate supply of fuel to the engine in all maneuvers the fuel from the fuselage-mounted tank was pressurized by an air pump. On some aircraft this was an engine-mounted pump, on others the pump was driven by a small propeller mounted on a wing strut just above the fuselage. (Note this on the CMF Camel on the right fuselage-to-wing strut above the cockpit). The pilot also had a cockpit mounted pump used when starting the engine."

[@agsystems8220]

WW1 aces were all about the energy fighting. Get the sun behind you, get altitude, and then boom and zoom. If you can't get advantage, escape. Never fight fair. WW1 was when the book was written on air to air tactics, and it is still applicable. Rule 1 was see them and don't let them see you, which the most modern dogma is still focused on. It just now relies on tech.

[@roadsweeper1]

or get underneath them and shoot the pilot through the fabric of the plane with a sidearm :)

[@RCAvhstape]

@@roadsweeper1 Aerial combat started off with crews shooting at each other with sidearms. Initially, there were no fighters; the first military use of the airplane was for aerial reconnaissance, so there'd be a pilot and an observer with a camera. When two recon planes from opposing sides passed near each other, they decided to start taking pot shots with whatever small arms they had in the cockpit. Eventually someone got the idea to put forward-firing machine guns on a plane and the fighter plane arms race was on and still going today.

[@derkylos]

@@RCAvhstape Napoleon used "aircraft" in a reconnaissance role-hot air balloons to scout the enemy position from the air. Interestingly, hot air balloons were used in a military role throught the 19th century for reconnaissance and communications...also used during WW2 by the Japanese in a strategic bombing role...

[@member5488]

The average combat life expectancy of WWI pilots is often cited as 3 weeks, or 40 to 60 flight hours. That is less time than they spent training to get into combat.

[@kyle.1442]

Welcome to the ‘20 minuter’ club. Combat flying was a short term career path.

[@edmundscycles1]

Woof woof .

[@Galactipod]

Though I wonder whether a modern fighter pilot would have a good chance of surviving a lot longer in WW1.

[@kyle.1442]

@@Galactipod probably a very good chance. Powered flight only became a reality in December, 1903.

[@tiivc]

@10:35 the torque and gyroscopic effect of that big rotary engine faithfully turning clockwise was enough to keep her _almost_ flying on the right-hand set of wings alone. Also explains why the Camel required such bizarre control inputs. Just pulling back on the stick with the rudder in neutral would snap-roll it instantly to the right, maybe into an unrecoverable spin. Co-ordinated right-hand turns required _left_ rudder input. It killed a lot of its pilots.

[@steveday6671]

hence the old saying about Camel pilot career options "red cross, wooden cross or Victoria Cross"

[@toolbaggers]

Aim for the engine, it's cooling and lubrication systems and of course the pilot. Basically the front of the fuselage and parts of the upper wing near the front fuselage.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

That, and if you think you're close enough, get closer.

[@slow9573]

Well if you want a real introduction into FC, join up with 3PG or another squad for a Thursday night or Sunday afternoon event. 30-50 player furballs and lots of good tactics

[@grahamshere]

Jump on with the 20's and escort as we try and do the objectives on Thursday. We're always getting to too some kind of dog fight.

[@oneknight55]

That was a hoot to watch. Please have some more of this.

[@kmmediafactory]

Dang, this gave me a new respect for WWI pilots, and this isn’t even real life it’s a sim. I mean it’s not like I didn’t give them respect initially, I just was never as invested in it as WWII. But dang, I think I gotta give this more of my time. Nice one GS!

[@xzqzq]

Well, let's see. You are flying a canvas-covered wood aircraft, covered with flammable dope, without a parachute. Your engine is lubricated with castor oil, which the slip-stream brings back to your face. So, you are desperately attempting to shoot down the enemy & avoiding being shot down at the very same time you are trying not to soil your pants....all the while aircraft are buzzing around, and mid-air collisions likely abound.

[@Rationalific]

I really like how the wings came off, but I also believe that the models here were able to withstand more damage than a real aircraft would have been able to. Anyway, this was very cool!

[@tonyrun5802]

Ok this is crazy good Also, I'd love to see more of it!

[@cammakurat6300]

Really loved seeing this. I always loved ww1 dogfights and had a red baron poster in my room when I was little. It really was an art form. A horrific and scary art form but still an art form

[@williamrooth]

I love aviation history and this is a great way to help understand a bit of why it was so hard in the air. The cold air, untried designs which were rushed into production, unreliable mechanical issues, jammed guns, being blinded by the oil mist, etc. Those were brave guys on all sides.

[@ricardocorbie6803]

It was hard, that’s why most of the Aces of the day got in “ Close” and stuck it to em, but the other fact was you were sitting on a petrol ⛽️ tank without a chute,, fire 🔥 was a constant fear 😰 Yessssss they had Mas Cohones!!

[@jerryschoofs895]

In WW1 you could bailout if you chose to but the pilots weren't issued parachutes. The Brass thought that the pilots would bailout instead of fighting.

[@commandergeokam2868]

@@-Zevin- yes but it was very little pilots that had them

[@lemax6865]

Military officers. Homicidally incompetent since forever.

[@gglen2141]

I was driving down the road one day, and I smelled that distinctive and really nice smell of vintage pre-emissions cars. Anyways, I did catch up with a group 4 old cars on a sunday cruise....about 10 miles down the road. So, those open canopy sniffer pilots were right.

[@chrisgrube-he1gr]

Well...those rotary engines burned benzine and caster oil. The exhaust fumes actually have a sweet BBQ type of smell. Its nothing like the gasoline smell from pre emissions controlled classic cars. Once you get a whiff of an actual runnjng WW1 engine, you'll never forget it!

[@williamwood3304]

to this day captain roy brown is still credited with shooting down richtofen, as a proud canadian who lives 10 miles from his hometown of carleton place , ontario no one will ever tell me different.

[@GrielMerc4ever]

The fact that this video is quickly approaching 100 comments in the first hour of being posted is a testament to GS’s content. well done my dude.

[@ShootBlueHelmets]

I may have an old WW1 Red Baron sim. That game was great. Incendiary rounds and jump or burn was in there. Church bells rang when you got near to town. You could light roofs on fire. AA at airfields. MG some trains. It had it all. You could even have free play where the aircraft you picked out would randomly come at you, for as long as you wanted to play.

[@Matisaro]

I fucking love the sad music crash playbacks lol.

[@rwlewko]

Would those old rotary engines create sufficient heat signature to let a sidewinder track them? An interesting match would be a Polikarpov I-16 vs a Fokker DVII

[@fergar0206]

Those are radial engines, rotary is the name used for wankel engines.

[@EgorKaskader]

@@fergar0206 Oh those are very much rotary engines on the Sopwith Camels. As in, the *engine block* rotates with the propeller while the crankshaft remains stationary. In radials, the block is stationary and the crankshaft rotates, much like in every other engine designed by sane people.

[@rwlewko]

@@-Zevin- The trick would be hitting the Fokker. I don't think the 20mm's would be that much help because of their rate of fire and only if they hit something dense, like a structural member (like a wing spar), the pilot or the engine, would the fuse ignite. The fuse certainly wouldn't ignite if it just hit the fabric. What I didn't know until just now is that the 7.62 had a rate of fire of 1800 rounds per minute; that would rip the Fokker to bits. The second point regarding the 20mm cannons is what distance were they set to converge with the sight in the cockpit? At longer distances the rounds diverge making the sights less useful. The result is that there would be a slow, very agile plane with 7.62's firing 400 rounds per second facing a faster plane that while it has a rate of fire much higher would quickly run out of ammo then have to resort to a difficult to aim 20mm round and if the Fokker can use its agility to aim its weapons at the i16 and keep the i16 in its sights for longer then that would make the difference.

[@gascan]

@@fergar0206 Kids these days! "Wankel" ain't no rotary, a real rotary engine has the whole damn thing rotate. Much better power-to-weight ratio in the early days of aircraft engine design (and motorcycles, too). Only later did inline, V, and radial engines become more common. (yes I know the Wankel is referred to as a "rotary" engine, I just can't stand it when people say stuff on the internet without doing the most basic of research before starting an argument)

[@gascan]

About 2 months ago, one of the Jasta 5 guys made a scenario set in the Polish-Soviet war of 1920. He had some players in the new Flak trucks armed with 20mm AA guns, as well as a collection of the WW1 planes set near Velikie-Luki. We really got to see how much a 20mm can do (no surprise, since the German Halberstadt has an option for a 20mm for the gunner). It really wouldn't be a match at all. The I-16 just needs a hit or two and the Fokker D7 is dead. The difference in engine power and speed would also allow the I-16 to control the engagement completely. The only way the D7 stands a chance is if he can dive on the I16 and surprise him, and even that may not be enough.

[@jackmaddox4960]

Speaking of turn radius, the Fokker Dr.1 Triplane could actually do a complete '180' in a flat plane, literally pretty much just spin around on a vertical axis and come head-on right at their pursuer..! German ace Werner Voss famously pulled this maneuver during his last dogfight, wherein he took on no less than EIGHT British fighters all by himself, and came very close to emerging victorious! As you say, absolute madness!

[@richarddyson4380]

They didn’t call WWI British pilots the 20 minuter’s for nothing… however the very foundations of the application of air power came from the survivors. May I suggest that you should try to add height to your turn (looping to add distance) to stay on the tail of the Dr1 to get out of a flat turning fight that he should win every time… even against a Camel.

[@AirCicilia]

You just granted a wish of mine, before I had actually expressed it. Thanks so much for this video!

[@jsshea3847]

What I learned today. GS is awesome for doing a WW1 vid. Also Werner Voss is INSANE. GS had his hands full with three but Voss single handedly held off several of Britain’s best pilots for several minutes and shot holes into everyone of them before they finally killed him. Absolute legend

[@richardmardis2492]

They were older than manned flight it’s self. ...and in a time where knowledge of just driving a vehicle was a very rare skill. The RAF lost 1/3 of it’s whole fighting force in one month- they shook it of an went back into hell again the next month. The where just brave just to fly one of those contraptions.

[@JBASH2011]

Awesome! More WWI and more Pacific Theatre WWII, please! Loving the historical content lately.

[@chriswilliams8849]

Damn! That shit was freakin intense! Yeah, you had to have a set to even consider doing this back then. Maybe the mindsets were very different or the pilots were just extremely confident in their skills. I don't think they lived very long though

[@wanyelewis9667]

The mindsets of people in general back then were very different. Young men saw this as their duty. All other considerations were secondary. It's not that we don't have people like that now; there are a few. It was just a lot more widespread then. You were expected to be a man.

[@jwhoward182]

I've always been an airplane nut. My first bed was at the end of a USAF runway. I talked to a friend of my family who was a Spad pilot in Rickenbacker's squadron. I was 11 years old at the time and I knew exactly who Eddie was. Will never forget that conversation.

[@screaminbluesoul4814]

As Victor Masolin Yeates wrote in his beautiful book Winged Victory.... "In a few minutes they were at ten thousand, and the Huns, a mile above them, were discernable as aeroplanes, bluely translucent...Rattle of guns and flash of tracers and the Fokker in a vertical turn, red, with extension on the top planes (Fokker DVII). Tom hated those extensions. He was doing a very splitarse turn for a Hun, but tracers seemed to be finding him. Got him, oh got him: over, flopping over, nose dropping, spinning."

[@mr22jk2]

Screw bvr those pilots died like men! Props to the comment section for all the information provided. Better than history Channel...

[@pju28]

I agree with you it is hard staff and cold. Real heroes in that timeframe being a pilot in such conditions.

[@Chelsiya-Elyze]

Honestly these dogfights look amazing, I'd love to see more

[@REALjohnmosesbrowning]

Cecil lewis flew Camels when he flew for the RFC home guard in England... which meant flying at night, in an era when IFR didn't exist and cockpit instrumentation was fancy if it had a bubble level and a lightbulb.

[@JAEUFM]

If you end up engaging a Beagle flying a doghouse, be afraid, very afraid.

[@alexlim864]

Aw, GS is safe, since he's flying a Camel. The particular world famous flying ace referred to only shoots down German equipment, with a particular focus on a very specific, all-red Dr.I. Trivia: Just for the heck of it, several years back, I did a survey of said world famous flying ace's source material. It turns out he got smoked at least thirty times (sorry, forgot the exact number), which means that he is responsible for (being) over a third of the Red Baron's kills.

[@npc6817]

CURSE YOU RED BARON!!!

[@RealBelisariusCawl]

That last enemy going down was so cinematic it hurts. Beautiful. 😢

[@cap871]

Ah the amount of time I spent playing Red Baron 2. The shock, stunned, shock the first time you hit some plane, it catches on fire and the pilot jumps to his death rather than burn.

[@johnlynnbeck]

I read somewhere that the life expectancy of the average WWI pilot was somewhere around 40 flying hours. FORTY. HOURS. Everytime I'm flying in that Sopwith Camel, I am reminded of a book I read as a kid, Fighting the Flying Circus, by the American ace Eddie Rickenbacker. I remember how he described flying so close to his target that he would aim specifically for the engine of the other "kite," or, in a pinch, at the enemy pilot himself. In these open-cockpit aircraft made of wood and fabric, air combat feels so precarious, so personal! The experience in VR, especially, is just so amazing. I love DCS and IL-2: Battle of ________, but Flying Circus is just a different level of fun.

[@samraam6789]

I was watching a documentary and they was saying that the ground soldiers didn't envy the pilots at all, they had to go over the top once every few weeks but the pilots where going practically over the top every day

[@vagelisnkl83]

Missing all left wing... Gs:"she is not flying the way she supposed to fly.. " 🤣🤣🤣

[@ars3nicschannel234]

-GS "This is craziness". Crazy job for crazy people. These dudes would fence one another, cut the shit out of each other(aiming for the face), & wear their scares with the same pride as that of a medal! We're a different people this age.

[@tfilmyr]

Wining five evenly matched one-on-one dogfights, to become an ace, is like flipping a coin five times and having it land on heads every time....or around 3 percent.

[@edking5125]

Theres a booked called ‘voices in flight’, which interviews some of the last world war 1 pilots in the 1970’s. Its a pretty interesting read

[@robgraham5697]

In his last fight, a Canadian pilot by the name of Billy Barker fought with bullets through both arms and one leg. He got five Germans before he crashed. And he survived to fly again. Although not in war. This was, as I recall, in September 1918. He was flying a Snipe, which was the Camel’s successor. That last fight was against the Richthofen Geschwader.

[@Larping101]

Thoroughly enjoyed this. Looking forward to more.

[@manzelli1981]

Would you consider using period-specific tactics and maneuvers in future videos? Like, S-turns and Immelmanns in a Sopwith, boom-and-zoom in a P-51? There are WWII USN air combat training videos on YT. It would be cool for us history nerds to watch you expand on this and your F-5/MiG-21 Vietnam-era tactics some more

[@casinodelonge]

Read Goshawk Squadron by Derek Robinson , you will never read a finer fictional book on air combat.

[@casinodelonge]

Major Wooley - "You can pepper a Triplane until it looks like a pair of net curtains and the hun pilot will still kill you without taking the sausage sandwich out of his mouth..."

[@aaronsevy4482]

gives new meaning to fly by wire

[@sierrahp]

Love the channel. Would be keen to see some more WWI content. Maybe a tinker with some Rise Of Flight? Keep up the great work.

[@justicier10-7]

Hope to see more WW1 dogfights, it really was a different animal back then

[@smokincrater]

Oswald Boelcke wrote a manual on what we would today call Air Combat Maneuvering and Manfred Von Richthofen read it used it great effect. Also Richthofen was long sighted. He could see his opponents, before they could see him.

[@MarcNewitt]

Go in close and when you think you are too close, go on in closer! Major Thomas B. "Tommy" Maguire USAAF

[@spigot993]

My old flying club had a Dagling, which was a trainer people pulled down a hill and you got stick time whilst sat on the front of this.... clothes horse, I never flew it, but it looks kinda fun, but dangerous.

[@charles_wipman]

I loved the WWI games; IRL there was a guy that took off his MGs and used a lever action rifle, other guy that used a hook to take off the upper wing from the opponents... . The war it's a madness.

[@LuchesChan]

It was hard for them to do the numbers (turning radius/climb/dive speed etc) because of the rate of new and better planes that kept showing up. Whatever info you know will change in a couple of months or weeks (either facing off new enemy plane types, or getting assigned a new plane types)

[@r.s.taylor5273]

Rene Fonck was a top French ace. He was such a good marksman that he would sometimes bring down an enemy with three or four bullets.

[@mikehoyle6092]

Even a simulation without a parachute is disconcerting. I felt that Growling felt like he was really about to auger in there at the end.

[@jpteknoman]

there was a concept of chivalry in air combat in WW1. when your plane got shot to a point you felt it was not flyable, you would fly towards the ground and the enemy would leave you alone to land

[@Mike_Romeo]

Did you know that most of them didnt even had parachutes at that time ? They had balls made of Beskar steel.

[@gvii]

Considering that the average speed in a WWI dogfight was right around what you do on your way to work on the freeway, it's not surprising that the turns are incredibly tight. Then you have nutballs like Werner Voss who could rudder flick his kite almost 90 degrees to shoot at a flanking enemy while still chasing down his original opponent.

[@ShootBlueHelmets]

It is sort of like the GAU-8 modeling against WW2 planes. These machine guns had incendiary rounds. Many times, a WW1 pilot would jump instead of burn, before parachutes became common.

[@matthewcaughey8898]

After 2 kills and no farther contact an intelligent move would be to turn for your home airfield and see who else bugged out and went home. The way those guys survived was by not taking stupid risks like going back to look for more. Werner Voss a 48 victory ace in a DR1 picked a fight with 5 SE-5s he ignored multiple opportunities to escape and kept pushing. My suggestion would be take your 2 kills and call it a day.

[@Firealchemist24]

Is this Rise of Flight or another game? Btw, great video, would not mind seeing some more of WWI planes.

[@donwild50]

The Camel did have an extraordinary turn radius to the right because of the rotary torque. The Dr1 had pretty much the same advantage but with the three short wings it also had more wing surface...it could damn near turn on a dime. In his last fight, the German ace Werner Voss took on six British SE5A's, all of them flown by experienced British aces. When they first jumped him he spun around so fast it astonished them...in the fight he managed to hit every British aircraft, but was not able to score any fatal hits. It is presumed he was eventually killed because he stopped all evasive action and essentially flew his plane into the ground. The Camel and the Triplane had the advantage of extreme manuverability but it came at a cost...they were both prone to deadly spins. Some estimates indicated more Camel pilots died in training or due to losing control of their aircraft than were brought down by enemy fire. The Tripe could dance like mad and climb like an angel, but it was terribly slow and diving was dangerous. The SE5a was not as agile but it was easy to fly and was a very stable gun platform. Compared to the other two craft it was extremely sturdy and could take much more damage.

[@andyh5224]

Great video. The DR1 pilots could have attempted escape as German aviators had parachutes stored in their aircraft to put on and jump with. Sadly British pilots had no such luck, as top brass thought they’d be more likely to abandon their planes unnecessarily. Their only viable option if they found their engine on fire was to reach for their revolver sidearm...

[@jobu88]

The DR-1 was notorious for its rate of turn and rate of climb. 3 wings and a supplementary airfoil between the wheels meant it could out-turn anything. However it was around 20-25 mph slower than late-war enemy planes.

[@armhunter]

That last maneuver you pulled off was called a Knifes Edge.. lol

[@gambler1650]

They shot something off my plane... Yeah, the half of the wings on the side away from where you were trying to find the damage! :D

[@bobbob4652]

Plus there was the blasting wind..the freezing temperatures, the deafening engine noise..

[@patrickdavis8271]

Great video. Maybe a dumb request but how about a gun fight between a sop with camel and an f22? Thrust vectoring won’t help the F22! Lol

[@Booboobear-eo4es]

I saw an interview years ago with a 90+ former WWI fighter pilot. He said he had some harrowing experiences during air combat. After the war, he would have terrible nightmares where he was in a burning plane and about to die. The reporter who was doing the interview asked him when was the last time he had such a nightmare. He replied: "Last night."

[@melsilvestre8049]

Ha! You didn't see the "guy try to get out" because no one did--if you weren't riddled with bullets, you fly it to the ground silly...they didn't have parachutes back then. But I'm a big fan of old prop jobs and of yours too...so i can't wait for more of these!

[@Booboobear-eo4es]

That window above the cockpit was the first HUD (Heads Up Display).

[@rileyharriss5542]

In regards to learning the capabilities and function of enemy planes, in the book Lords of the Sky documenting the history of fighter pilots, there is a section on fighter training for German pilots including capabilities. The example given in the book is "Vickers single seater. Very agile, somewhat slower than the Albatros, generally loses fight in steep turns. Generally armed with only one machine gun. Defenseless in the rear, where the pilot's view is obstructed. Best attacked from behind; can also be very effectively attacked from behind and below by means of a zoom [climb]."

[@peterweller8583]

Due to the nature of the French made rotory gnome engine. Its radial mass of the whole engine rotating made for some interesting characteristics. The centrifugal forces at right angles turn left nose would be up ended, turn right and the nose would plunge also it had an on or off throttle so yeah it was dicey, a particularly spicy plane to fly. In the hands of a master WOW got a clean pair of undies handy?

[@vincentmarchetti6388]

Rene Fonck, the most underrated allied aces imho shot down once 6 planes the same day. He only shot 32 bullets that day ;)

[@dareka9425]

"She's not flying right!" The cockpit view made it look like the damaged right wings was failing. In the external view...the left wings are already gone.

[@kennethfharkin]

No power, no HUD, no canopy, no radar. This is dog-fighting!

[@benspouse9840]

That was great! Love the WW1 Stuff. We can definately see more of this!