Can a Real NATO Fighter Pilot Beat me in DCS? MiG-29 Vs F-16 Death Match

[@Aur_Phoenix-ue3zu]

Next and last episode on this channel: Can I beat a real NATO Fighter Pilot in Real Life?

[@toxickilljoy9037]

Completely uncharted territory

[@CommandT]

Or perhaps not last 😉

[@perfectcell1157]

why are you so butt hurt about it

[@archieil]

I'm pretty sure he would die because of his own acrobatics. g matters in a real life ;-)

[@the3yM]

I drunk vodka with real NATO Figher Pilot in Iceland, 2015, and beat him.

[@lchan1977]

Players will always be better at DCS because there aren't Gs to content with. I believe when I fighter pilot is playing DCS, certain maneuvers may make him subconsciously think is dangerous because in real life he knows there will be a lot of variables to content with, while the DCS player sits comfortably on his gaming chair.

[@CommandT]

Indeed!

[@ViliRagnarok]

Watched a video of a fighter pilot play DCS with VR and he started doing G straining exercises out of habit. So this is not out of the question at all.

[@silverfox9267]

@@ViliRagnarok Yes, when playing CQB vs. Soldiers with airsoft, they absolutely destroy gamers. The closer to reality the more the gamers lose.

[@mcohanov]

My friend named this "respect for life", always pulls this out in war thunder air where there is often no survival instincts just pure score chasing

[@udontneed2know801]

this 100%

[@burtleboeuf1429]

Just to point out that it's quite natural that experienced DCS players would have an advantage. They're good at DCS, fighter pilots are good at actual combat fighter plane flying. The former is a gameified approximation of the latter. To put it in perspective, a fighter pilot can quickly be competent in the game, trading places, an experienced player of DCS would most likely struggle to just take off and land a fighter plane safely.

[@mangobanana7195]

He still won though, he's probably not giving it his all too. I imagine some military maneuvers or tactics aren't allowed to be just casually displayed in public, wouldn't be surprised if he was intentionally making mistakes to confuse viewers trying to use this as study material for the real thing.

[@valinhorn42]

The same thing for real driving vs simracing or getting into a gunfight between a real specops guy and a Counter-Strike pro...

[@HalcyonSkies]

@@mangobanana7195 Most combat flying becomes instinct after you've done it for a while. If you get into that situation, even in VR, a pilot trained to react is still going to react in the same manner that his training dictates. I wonder if the pilot was hesitant on the stick a few times because IRL continuing that move might have damaged the air frame in some way. I'd imagine the mechanics and crew chief would beat that into your head not to stress the aircraft.

[@bojanvukobradovic2504]

😂😂😂So they haven't simulation 😂😂😂

[@scimbrelo]

it aint that deep

[@ziepex7009]

Loving the effort put into these videos Cmdt!

[@CommandT]

Great to hear!

[@vineetkaddu1214]

The Mig 29 is such a sexy bird. It looks like some Combination of A Fighter Jet, A Reptile and An alien Spaceship. This Aircraft Design will forever be one of the most iconic

[@spencensawyersmom]

Agreed

[@RedneckRapture]

Yeah, it's the iconic 'bad guy' aircraft.

[@vineetkaddu1214]

@@RedneckRapture very much so

[@andylem]

Very subjective. I find it ugly tbh

[@zerooneonetwothree1872]

Yes, subjective, i think Sukhoi is so much more beautiful.

[@GrantvsMaximvs]

Nothing can beat the Viper's turn rate, but the Fulcrum has the same AoA authority as the Hornet

[@Funkey_Legend]

In dcs, most jets can

[@specc_s1452]

Eurofighter>>>

[@CruLisP]

F16 is a very bad fighter in close quarters i mean 18deg/sec turn rate sustained is very weak compared to other fighters like saab, typhoon, su30s, rafale. In the f16 realistically you can reach 20+ deg/sec for just a few sec but after that youre cooked, because f16 cant sustain high AOA for long period of time coz its unstable asF but if you not use your full potential in the merge you cooked again just because other fighters can sustain that 20+ degree/sec without much of a energy loss

[@Pukin-Dog]

That's certainly not the case in DCS. It's outrated by several Gen4 fighters.

[@j0n772]

are we just going to forget about the F-18?

[@niapaniapa4]

The fight was so close that, metaphorically speaking, it was a knife fight.

[@sauli1446]

My average enemy in war thunder matches

[@alienwar1789]

Flying a real fighter jet is something completely different. You don't have wind turbulence, you don't feel the plane (vibrations, thrust... etc.). No G-forces. You can simulate instruments and everything else, but a flight sim game is nowhere near like real flying.

[@iwenameh]

Insane layout w that hotas cam n tac map, w skills, w content. Growling sidewinder got some thinking to do

[@CommandT]

Haha thanks!

[@scrubadubdub8360]

I always put my money on the gamer in these videos, but love em. What usually does surprise me, and actually scares me a bit as a self proclaimed "decent sim pilot" is watching just how quickly the fighter pilots notice what you are doing, and makes these snap judgments on how to minorly tweak an angle, the roll axis, the general give and take of aerial combat in a game the probably haven't or don't play much.

[@ComfortsSpecter]

MIG 29 Gaming moments Adorable Vibe Great work directing this Good Man

[@CommandT]

Thanks 🙏

[@Demka03]

If you lose your HUD in MIG you can hit 7 key, I guess. You'll have a reticle, it's easier to keep using guns this way

[@speed3971]

It looked like he played with you the whole time.

[@udirt]

Yeah, thought so too, and simply testing out the waters. But oh he got lucky vs oh I missed. It's just we are normal and untrained and they are trained full time, had to study the maths enough to not go "I think this should be a good move now". But whatever, it was fun to watch and surely a lot more fun for them

[@camencowogh8333]

@@udirt kzbin.info/www/bejne/imXXY4RopdeAbs0

[@ToreDL87]

4 mins vs someone good enough that they not only can afford to kid around a little, but actually DO kid around a little. I'm calling that a win in and by itself. I bet he was pretty surprised about the amount of energy you could bring to bear when it counted. Because you weren't at full deflection all the time. GS is good at it even without FFB but you can tell he overcooks it sometimes, with FFB he would have had no issues. FFB is no joke, I wish everyone had it. Would stop a lot of people from constantly pulling when the right thing to do is conserve energy for the right moment.

[@catfood_03_4stray]

Great dogfight delivered ! If the MiG-29 was equipped with IR-missiles then at 2:55 you would have marked a shot-down, but it was a guns-only engagement.

[@CommandT]

Yeah with missiles I think both of us would fly quite differently and probably trade all energy for angles early on

[@Yikeo]

True!!!! if the mig 29 had a nuke he would have won as well!!! 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

[@Youthsoldiers1992]

That late ejection was crazy close, I wasn't expecting that 😂

[@princenotsocharming128]

One of the most glowing differences between "real" fighter pilots and video-game pilots is altitude. Video-game pilots hang out in valleys, while real fighter pilots realize that altitude is a huge advantage.

[@DreadX10]

Or they just like flying high.... Although, it is usually the sim guys being high while flying low.

[@GrantvsMaximvs]

Love it when DCS creators fight real fighter pilots. How is the FFB stick? Did he have one?

[@CommandT]

Nope, regular TM Warthog

[@GrantvsMaximvs]

@@CommandT I see. I have yet to see a video where a real pilot uses FFB, which is interesting because it would give them more of the haptic cues they rely on. ...maybe you could do a video with a real pilot using FFB?

[@benson4820]

@@GrantvsMaximvsI mean, the f16 doesn’t exactly have any feedback on the stick in the first place so I doubt it would help as much

[@CommandT]

Well I am a real pilot and I fly aerobatic aircraft in real life, so the concept of using FFB and comparing it to real life is not exactly foreign to me. It’s great 👌

[@siuc2903]

I guess the real pilots habitually did not use all the capabilities of the F-16 as they feel G force in real life. So they may not pull that hard I guess. We can see MIG-29 pull much more harder in average. Holding over 5 G most of the time. The path of F-16 is much more softer. Although 29’s AoA is better, that’s not the limit of 16.

[@arranchace1306]

Same as the difference between a real race car and a sim counterpart (using cars as example as i have no expierence flying, real or sims for comparison), by luck i have a MX5(Miata), represented a lot in racing sims what i play a lot, and i drive it in reality often on trackdays, the difference between the real car and the game car is just by the feel you get from the real car so different, to just correct or understeer/oversteer, dispite having a pretty decent DD wheel is so much harder in a sim, and so much easier in RL due the feedback feeling you have in a real car. Maybe it gets better on a full motionrig but its just a day and night difference.. And its not hard to imagine this is even exaggerated with Fighterjets due much much higher Gforces and speeds and more abrubt manouvres

[@calvinnickel9995]

High Gs also kill energy.

[@MrKingglenn]

I would personally like to see the other persons views and thoughts as he went through the fight. Was he over pushing G's? Was he toying with his meal? Was he just lucky? Also this was just 1 encounter and until it is repeated multiple times where the F-16 wins its all just a 50/50 coin flip on who lands a snap shop first. In all reality if CommandT wouldn't have misclicked his guns/missile selector, he would have probably splashed him way earlier in the encounter.

[@CramcrumBrewbringer]

This is the rough equivalent of a gamer 1v1ing a navy seal and thinking he's a better gunfighter.

[@shir0290]

sounds pretty insecure. no one is making it about that except you. dcs is unrealistic because of monetary incentive to make new things competitive and accessible, incompetent devs and inconsistent module quality. however you are still flying with a hotas the same way you fly a real plane, the skills not only translate but are the same fundamentally and sims are an extension of aviation. no one will judge you for your choice to gargle service members balls, but you can show admiration for things you like without detracting from things you don't understand.

[@adammckenzie6074]

I’d say flight simulator is closer to real life then a fps game lol

[@RadiantCataclysm]

@@shir0290flying in a sim, especially with a HOTAS at home, with never equate to flying an actual plane, especially fighter jets.

[@pavelkoudelka8934]

in a game... but yah, makes sence...

[@udirt]

​@RadiantCataclysm flying against a fighter pilot is the best and most fun thing that can happen, but the experience has been consistent. Like in the seven samurai at the start. You hop around and feel all brawly and then you get ended in a moment. Because you only learned to *play* well. There's nothing insecure in understanding reality.

[@Pendragon667]

The moment from right before the kill shot at around 5:09 to the actual kill at 5:15... that was so incredibly fast. One wrong move, one small mistake and it's over in seconds. Honestly i didn't see that coming. At 5:09, for me it looked you were still in the clear. Dodging, yes. But not that he positioned himself for a kill shot. Impressive. Really impressive, from both of you!

[@CommandT]

Glad you enjoyed!!

[@wastool]

I'm surprised a real fighter pilot would choose to take the F-16 one circle.

[@aaronwhite1786]

I'd be interested to see how you do in the F-14 with that FFB base. I would be curious how nice it would be to fly a heavy but maneuverable old school fighter like that.

[@CommandT]

I’m sure it would be pretty cool but unfortunately I don’t have the F-14 so couldn’t tell you.

[@aaronwhite1786]

@@CommandT I think you can get it with the DCS trial program, if you're interested!

[@paristo]

05:25 the best wallpaper ever for fanboys....

[@romanbru9504]

Красивый бой, спасибо за видео, очень понравилось что добавляете "схему боя" она показывает пространственное положение самолётов, красивые кинематографичные внешние виды, DCS прекрасен

[@CommandT]

Спасибо! Тронут 👍

[@Ningishzidd4]

Ah, this take me back 20 years ago flying on the Flanker2.0 ladder

[@richpryor9650]

Imagine if the Mig got the same mid-life upgrade that the F-15EX got. Now that's a scary ass plane.

[@antonzhuravsky3578]

This is mig-35

[@robbob9273]

It has.

[@partyfreak3035]

Watching fighter pilots dog fight is like watching ballet, chaotic and beautiful

[@MaksBLACKGOLD]

F-16 he will never butt heads in a dog fight in the sky in real life. air-to-air missile sends greetings

[@DudemeisterNL]

Most generic statement ever on dogfighting. That goes for every modern platform.

[@matt3606-o3l]

Man, that was a cool intro. Earned yourself a sub before I even watched the whole video 👍

[@CommandT]

Awesome. Glad to hear 😃

[@kayakutah]

I was an adversary in the Navy (VF-126 and VFC-13) and I'd get my butt kicked consistently in DCS. I just don't think it's very meaningful. That was a close pass, at 4:21and U.S. pilots would avoid it, but fighting against a Jaguar flown by a Brit in Oman, he dusted me off about that close. You can never tell what another pilot will do. I was in the F-14, so 180 degrees later, I was behind him pipper on.

[@CommandT]

Sounds like some very fun real life experiences!!

[@OfficialDropRate]

damn i wish yall did a best of 3 for this vid. i was left wanting more from this and it just ended. :(

[@CommandT]

Ha. Sorry! Lots of People have short attention spans so didn’t want to make the video too long!

[@SafeRemain]

@@CommandT have you tried making longer videos?

[@heinzpeztter6510]

u guys forget that the lumberjacks are no woodcutter record holders

[@solarwind9431]

Ochen krutoi dinamichniy boi ! Ochen klassno poluchilos!

[@ilovewater2.026]

I already know this is gonna be great!

[@CommandT]

👌👌

[@DudemeisterNL]

Love the PiP Tacview !

[@constantinalin9102]

WOW man ...what i have just seen??😯😯RESPECT ...i didnt even know is soo much strategy and dificult to pilot 😧Amazing

[@SanoyNimbus]

Is there any kind of G-force simulation in this? Like the computer knows when you loose your sight?

[@CommandT]

You can grey out and black out under G in DCs

[@VollstandigErleuchtung]

I do agree, and also don't agree with people's take on why it's obvious that a dcs player would be better. It's got a lot of variables, it's like comparing a f1 driver against a sim racer. F1 drivers are better at driving right before that limit, whereas simracers drive on the absolute limit. F1 drivers have to leave something in the bag, whereas sim you'd learn to not leave any cause you got less risks, but that learns simracers to work on that edge with comfort. It's kinda like someone that's more use too driving a car in wet weather, vs dry weather. Adapting to the environment, and what advantages that environment has. The real fighter pilot is adapted to he's, whereas the sim guy is adapted to his. In real fighters, the real pilot will obviously have the advantage instead, in sim the latter as we see here. It's not about whose actually better, that margins would be like a difference of 1% or something like that negligible. Only difference is the Game, The environment, which is more advantageous to who. Either pilot could adapt to the other environment in some time, so it's not as straightforward as saying. My car has 500hp, and yours has 400hp

[@merry1251]

graphics quality is just breathtaking

[@heralds]

Dogfights in these are like using a mech to play chess

[@heralds]

But I would watch mech chess too

[@HowToZelfie]

I wish there were Dogfights like this in warthunder

[@intlon4299]

Love these videos!

[@CommandT]

Glad to hear!

[@Shirayumi9090]

4:10 At this point you might as well pull out the emergency pistol 😂

[@paristo]

03:50 and that is the moment when the mistake was done to lose the fight. Not easing with throttle by 10-20% to let him get ahead and get comfortable with speed. Trying to get a shot opportunity for each moment is costly, as very tiny mistake generate so many new vectors for other to take opportunity cash it...

[@Airsoftipsandtricks]

What plane does your friend fly? im very curious now

[@cockatoo010]

Right? "NATO" could be anything from the MiG 21s of the Croatian air Force to the F-22 of the USAF or F35 from several air forces. All we know is "not F-16" which rules out Portuguese air force though

[@arkarcher8529]

Fighter pilots are at a disadvantage than DCS pilots because some of the maneuvers that come natural in DCS would get your wings taken away or you'd bend the airframe which would also get your wings taken away

[@santiagoayala2975]

This is similar to another video, I think it was with the videogame Guitar Hero, a player and Iron Maiden's guitarist competed in one of Iron Maiden's songs, and the player won.

[@ndfgaming6824]

4:15 my new wallpaper

[@colonelradec5956]

I think gamers have the edge in everything. Even like playing ace combat or gta is more piloting experience than a normal non gamer gets. So as unrealistic as them games are some experience even in concept is better than no experience.

[@kaivinsky]

I had kind of the same experience in war thunder sim. 2 Real russian pilots against me automotive and my gardner friend. We won.

[@isf4801]

Всё могло бы решиться на 2:24, если бы "стрелок" был более точен)) Я думаю, столь малое время может нивелировать всё недостатки ощущений полета в симуляторе.

[@davidca96]

MiG-29A is my favorite fighter ever produced.

[@CommandT]

Understandable

[@super266]

F16 got tired of dogfighting, wanted hand to hand combat.

[@halnineooo136]

NATO pilot be like I'm gonna do everything forbidden in the fighter pilot manual

[@WEMMSproject]

flies with the MiG and does not use the helmet visor, let alone the lead computer 😂

[@CommandT]

There’s no need for the helmet track since there’s no missiles 🤷‍♂️

[@WEMMSproject]

@ wrong, you can use it to take out the target and then use the lead computer for the on-board cannon. This is feared in US aircraft

[@grindcorejoe6661]

DCS is still more a Game than a Life-or-Death-Szenario

[@lijinyan]

Be hardcore and try MiG-15 vs F-86 in next video :)

[@omarjassar4650]

Would it help if Goose talked to you or would that have been kinda distracting ??

[@HoLDoN4Sec]

fun fact - realistically dogfights are a thing of the past, western missile technology got so advanced that an F16 can basically shoot you down from 5-20km away lol

[@robinhoodwinker8621]

It’s missile tech in general, not just west. I think the real breakthrough was targeting, not range. Russias R-37 air-to-air missiles are being successfully used in Ukraine as we speak, and their range is approaching 400 km which is insanity.

[@mejtalks]

Are you familiar with Growling Sidewinder? You sound a little like him describing your game play. If you don't know him, might be good to reach out to him and fight him. He's a DCS gamer too and you might like fighting him if you haven't before.

[@CommandT]

I don’t think it’s possible to not know who GS is if you’re into DCS. My channel is not really dogfight focused atm but sure maybe at some point in the future.

[@atsimas]

Please do a duel with Growling Sidewinder .

[@kennethmoureau5123]

4:20 holy smokes that's close!!

[@tixeright9120]

"they'll never get that close in real life" maybe not in a shooting war, but have you seen how close they get to each other in cold-wars? I mean they are literally trying to take each other out with jet wash, and wingtip forces, and fuel dumps.

[@CommandT]

My statement was with regards to BFM training in real life and the 1000ft bubble.

[@whatmusiciwant]

He was toying with you the whole time lol.

[@CommandT]

If only!

[@whatmusiciwant]

@@CommandT lol.

[@sherman4970]

He is a REAL pilot, you play games. He was lucky??????

[@nagyteso1]

Spoiler alert: yes he can.

[@mscz2324]

I don't speak English very well. But today the fighting is tens of kilometers away, not so close. That's only in the movies. But if the point of the video was that the pilots don't have rockets, then fine.

[@CommandT]

This will depend entirely on the conflict and the amount and quality of jets put up against each other. The F-22 and all new Russian jets have thrust vectoring for a reason. There is definitely a chance that in a big air war you could see jets merge for a dogfight. So definitely not a wasted skill.

[@WasserstoffheizungYT]

In dogfight Mig-29 still top notch ..with over g cobra this beast is an all aspect himself ;) ..but today is most bvr 8)..make a mig-29 as 6. gen fighter and you can go home ..haha

[@macbradley6445]

would your fighter pilot buddy do a ride along with you piloting an IRL Cessna?

[@trippihoffman]

That was close! 🤌🏾

[@MotobuChasi]

Bro what game is this?? My dad's a flying instructor. Got my PPL very young. I've got a lot, at least a 1000 hours on YSflight sim from the old days. I bet I'd hunt down a lot of guys with just a keyboard and mouse in a Rafael. I always kept thinking this was war thunder. What is this?

[@CommandT]

It’s dcs world and you won’t be hunting anyone down unless you have a joystick and a throttle 😅😅

[@MotobuChasi]

@@CommandT I got a betafpv lite 2 remote (for flying quads), would that work? it connects to the pc

[@Nimori]

I think another point is made. Real pilots compensate for G force, and train to maneuver in such stresses. If you yourself went into real combat with this guy, you’d black out so easily and be unable to move your hand the way you wanted it to, or do any sort of button pressing, flip switching actions. You got the knowledge down, but not the dexterity or constitution.

[@CommandT]

I would say this would be true for most airline pilots but not those who are seasoned aerobatic pilots. And yes the argument would be that obviously fighter jets can sustain high Gs for longer but a lot of good aerobatic pilots would be able to survive that, especially as they fly without any G-suits. So honestly I don’t know.

[@christosswc]

Real buddies be like "I kill you I kill you I kill you"

[@VIDIAX91]

Where can I buy the simulators I use?

[@jacobgrisson2695]

It’d be a more accurate experiment if you did more than one match.

[@CommandT]

We did plenty but I uploaded the most interesting one. People have short attention spans so I doubt everyone would want to watch all the other ones which are not as entertaining.

[@shahbaz6741]

F16: laughs in 2 circle

[@gda3638]

Real world pilots have got much less dogfight experiences in flight hours than sims pilots

[@mikhail1809]

This dogfight is better than that cheap copy of Top Gun

[@lardwickx8642]

you should contact ATE he's an ex french rafale pilots, he's very a skilled pilot even on a Mirage 2k

[@CommandT]

Yeah maybe I’ll do that some day 🙂

[@Fox3-Luck]

Nice Video

[@CommandT]

Thanks!

[@pigmoonk2545]

When you dont need to do AGSM whilst fighting it is always easier

[@TeuzTV86]

Wich pc system require you would recommend to have this quality?

[@angelosophy]

Am i rooting for you? Yes. Am i happy that you lost to a real NATO pilot? Also yes.

[@CommandT]

Haha! Thanks

[@misterpalmtrees]

im curious if, on his end, he was g-straining out of habit lol

[@CommandT]

Haha he wasn’t. He does plenty for f DCS stuff so I think he’s pretty used to it in the game sense 😅

[@misterpalmtrees]

@@CommandT ahh that’s still so dope tho, it’s cool seeing different habits !

[@calneigbauer7542]

Give the real pilot a few hours to get used to the sim he will smoke you every time

[@CommandT]

He grew up playing DCS/ Lock On, just like I did. I’m not sure he needs to “get used” to it 😅

[@_0minutes]

god i love ur videos, just like the mig29

[@CommandT]

Great to hear! 👌

[@alfredkabatay656]

Just to remind everyone, He might be a real life pilot, HE IS NOT A F-16 PILOT. Also, The Channel owner is just a GAMER, HE IS NOT A REAL LIFE FIGHTER PILOT. Now that you understand that, this whole thing is just two people having fun, real life experience in an aircraft mean nothing and all the flight hours with a stick at home, means nothing. Enjoy.

[@CommandT]

Actually all the home time experience with a stick is EXACTLY what means a lot in this particular scenario 😉

[@vewkathunder]

what fighter your friend fly irl?

[@eternity_warriors]

Doesn't jet exhaust 5:15 do any strain damage?

[@CommandT]

What do you mean by “strain” damage?

[@stefanfranke6277]

which controls are you using?

[@CommandT]

Have a look in the description of the video. It’s all there

[@dirkellis9212]

So the f16 and mig 29 flight parameters in real life are so closely matched they could be maternal twins as a matter of fact the mig 29 was developed through corporate espionage the mig does have higher thrust to weight more similar to f15 but the f16 being lighter has higher sustained turn rate don't know how that Syria out in dcs but that's what I've read

[@arutin8024]

почему у западых людей, любая разработка которая оказывается так же хорошо как у вас является шпионажем?

[@timurzarifov]

​@@arutin8024 ну не могут же унтерменши, а тем более азиаты (по последним новостям мы теперь - азиаты😁) сами что то придумать.💁‍♂️

[@-Strit-]

Cool video. But I feel like the second you cashed in all your energy at the start, the viper should just rate fought you to the floor in a 1 circle, he had the energy and speed and he would have won that all day every day with little to nothing you could do about it. Why he decided to give up his advantage I don't understand.

[@CommandT]

I don’t think the F-16 would win easily in a rate fight against a MiG-29. It would be very close and I think would depend who can max out their jet better in the last 5%

[@-Strit-]

@@CommandT yeah I agree, but after the energy is gone, he would get behind really fast. You don't have the energy to go up, you don't have the energy to out rate at that point. If he had kept the advantage there he could keep it til it was over.

[@AligatorsAligators]

Fuel 70% vs 100% cheat. Mass disbalance.

[@CommandT]

It’s not. We are going off flight time. There’s no such thing as a “fair fight” no matter what way you spin it but at least one thing we can match is flight time with afterburner to have an equal length of time available to fight

[@karolbiela6443]

what is name of that song at the end?

[@bucurflorentin8563]

hi! do you recommend trackir5 vs vr headset?? thank you

[@CommandT]

This is a hard question to answer. I suggest just YouTubing and doing more research. Depending on your goals needs and your hardware

[@elfri1738]

It's not true that pilots wont fight that close. If they have to they will, it means you put up a good fight.

[@CommandT]

I obviously meant in training. They have a 1000ft bubble.

[@DiabloOutdoors]

F16 with... TWO engines?

[@CommandT]

What?

[@MikeRawGaming]

The problem now that you will get a phone call from Putin 😅