How Much Did The Mark 41 Vertical Launch System (VLS) Improve US Warships? | Sea Power

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Grim Reapers

Grim Reapers

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 246
@CharliMorganMusic
@CharliMorganMusic Ай бұрын
"I can't see the missiles." Turn your radar on.
@Jrhoney
@Jrhoney Ай бұрын
There has to be a song in there somewhere about that.
@BigIronEnjoyer
@BigIronEnjoyer Ай бұрын
BUT MUH EMCON
@jaredjohnson8553
@jaredjohnson8553 Ай бұрын
The Mk 41 VLS on the Spruances replaced the ASROC launcher. Prior to VLS they carried 8 ASROCs in the launcher with up to another 16 in a magazine to reload. The VLS magazine on the Spruance held 61 missiles. The loadout would have been a mix of Tomahawk land attack and Tomahawk anti-surface cruise missiles. In the mid-80s the VLA (vertically launched ASROC) was not yet ready (many delays, as with so many US naval weapons programs), so it wouldn't be until the mid-90s that you could load out a Spruance with Tomahawks and VLAs. (During that time period, the Spru-cans would have been dependent on their helicopters to deliver torpedoes on an enemy sub.) In the end, the Spruances really only ever ended up being used as a platform to launch Tomahawk land attack missiles from. The Spruances would have turned broadside in order to be able to engage the incoming ASMs with the Sea Sparrow, as it was carried on the rear. The older Mk 26 twin-launcher Ticonderogas would also have turned broadside in order to be able to fire missiles from both launchers. However, even the modern Ticos with VLS would want to turn broadside to be able to use all 4 of their fire control directors (two mounted forward and two aft). While the SM-2s of the era were able to be guided by AEGIS they still used the SPG-62s for terminal guidance.
@spineless1
@spineless1 Ай бұрын
In addition, the Spruance lacked a 3D air search radar, which severely limited it’s AAW capability
@jaredjohnson8553
@jaredjohnson8553 Ай бұрын
@@spineless1 The Spruance didn't really have any AAW capability. The Sea Sparrow was just a self-defense weapon. The Spruance was designed as an ASW weapon (and it was a very, very good one). Later on with the addition of VLS and the near elimination of a submarine threat at the end of the cold war it became a strike platform with its land attack Tomahawk cruise missiles. It played a large role in the Tomahawk strikes during Desert Storm, for instance. It was also a passable platform for anti-surface warfare and after the final decommissioning of the Iowas was as good a platform for NGFS (Naval Gunfire Support) as any other. But with the end of the Soviet blue water submarine threat its days were numbered.
@Fury-161
@Fury-161 Ай бұрын
@@jaredjohnson8553 "It was as good a platform for NGFS as any other" - Which is to say it was bad.
@josephwhiskeybeale
@josephwhiskeybeale Ай бұрын
The Ticonderoga only fears another Ticonderoga.
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
@FerroEquus-262 Someone did 10 Tico VLS vs 10 Kirov the other day. It did not go well for the Kirovs.
@argokarrus2731
@argokarrus2731 Ай бұрын
Mostly because NTU ignores the historical programming channel limits Ticos had
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
@@argokarrus2731 What are the channel limits of a 4x SPG-62 Tico with command guided missiles? Do you even know? I don't' think anyone without a top secret clearance knows. What I do know is that with SM-2MRIIIB or SM-6 there are no channel limits at all.
@ThànhHoàngNgọc-w8r
@ThànhHoàngNgọc-w8r Ай бұрын
lol what a day dream , meet PLAN type 052D , type 055 they all use universal VLS ...meaning they can all carry 64x or 112x anti-ship missile in VLS . try to stop just two of them unload ~ 200 anti ship missile then talk . and PLAN currently have ~30x type 052D and 10x type 055
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
@@ThànhHoàngNgọc-w8r A Tico can carry the same types of loadout too. Try and stop a Tico barrage of 128 Tactical Tomahawks and 8 harpoons. Or probably even worse....128 SM-6s + 8 harpoons. Aint happening. Also keep in mind that the Chinese ships are decades newer than the Ticonderogas.
@ryanpayne7707
@ryanpayne7707 Ай бұрын
5:10: "Sir, we've two contacts. How many missiles should we fire?" "Yes." 5:46: "OUR MISSILES SHALL BLOT OUT THE SUN!!!"
@jordanrobbo
@jordanrobbo 17 күн бұрын
At 7:50 when you said why he is going broadside, its because it opens the ships dual fire arc coverage increasing the defensive capabilities. Simple tactic been employed for decades
@clangerbasher
@clangerbasher Ай бұрын
Yes there was a gain in missiles carried and launch speed. And you aren't dependent on the mechanics of the launcher. But for AAW none of this matters if you can't control the missiles. A ship with 2 fire control channels with a VLS will still be only able to control 2 missiles. It was Mk41 with AEGIS that gave the real boost as it allowed more control channels. I think back then it was 8 birds in the air.
@grimreapers
@grimreapers Ай бұрын
I literally found this out the hard way in next big battle that we recorded. Will upload soon.
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
It not strictly "8 birds in the air at the same time", as the requirement is the 4x SPG-62 are only used in the terminal phase of the intercept. Tico Aegis could have 8 SM-2s in terminal phase on four targets, and an "officially undisclosed" number of other SM-2s in midcourse phase under command guidance of the SPY-1. So more than 8 SM-2s in the air at the same time, just staggered in batches of 8 so that only 8 are ever in terminal phase at the same time.
@InLoveWithCities
@InLoveWithCities Ай бұрын
@@xenoaltrax485Nowadays SM6 and Essm block 2 can self guide in the terminal phase. So they can even engage over the horizon.
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
@@InLoveWithCities Yes that's correct. But we're talking about in the context of this mod, so no SM-6 or ESSM Blk 2 yet.
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
6 targets for the Mk26 Ticos, 8 for the VLS, IIRC. But you could have multiple missiles per target in the air at the same time.
@spineless1
@spineless1 Ай бұрын
Not sure if this has been called out already, but on the Spruance the SPS-40 is NOT a surface search radar. It is a 2D air search radar. The Spruance had an SPS-55 surface search radar.
@cinnomanwaffle768
@cinnomanwaffle768 Ай бұрын
My thoughts on as to why the red Tico survived, I’ve noticed with NTU that when you let the ships salvo off all of their tomahawks the tomahawks tend to go for one target so in this test you end up with 40 something tomahawks going for the Spruance and none going for the Tico, not sure if it’s an issue with the mod or the base game but it’s something I’ve noticed playing around with fleets
@leepatterson5710
@leepatterson5710 Ай бұрын
Yeah the majority of missiles went after the other ship.
@AlphaAurora
@AlphaAurora Ай бұрын
Overkill is a thing IRL too
@MrX-un8cz
@MrX-un8cz Ай бұрын
it's probably because the tomahawk(or USN AShM in general) doesn't have the same system as more advanced soviet AShM like the sandbox and shipwreck, they'll go to the biggest radar return they see regardless how many missiles already targeting the same thing
@ThatGenericName
@ThatGenericName Ай бұрын
That's just how it designed, mostly due to doctrine differences. Ignoring submarines, the Soviet's method of engaging in anti-surface warfare was dependent on anti-ship missiles launched from ships from standoff ranges. This necessitated the missiles being able to figure out what to target on their own because the launch platform wouldn't have an accurate enough targeting data to make the targeting choices. On the other hand, the US's naval doctrine was focused around the aircraft carrier. In a Carrier Strike Group, the other ships really just served to protect the carriers while the carriers with their strike craft performed the main anti-shipping roles, which allowed more granular control over anti-ship weapons because their aircraft would be much closer to their target compared to Soviet warships to theirs. On top of this, they wanted their anti-ship missiles to be smaller so that their strike craft could carry more of them.
@armandorodrigues144
@armandorodrigues144 Ай бұрын
@@MrX-un8cz there's a thing called illuminator radar and it was part of the NTU program, at the time it was the way ships could do mid-course adjustments to the missiles they launch additionally the Ticonderoga's were supposed to "steer" the SM-2's launched by the Kidd-Class, another one of the NTU ship classes
@emg12345
@emg12345 Ай бұрын
To see all enemy units: F10 ->Tf sensors - > Truth ON for player. The F10 menu is useful for seeing what is happening in the game. For example a lot of missiles miss their target due to defensive ECM jamming. Being able to spawn units in might be useful for you too. Also from F10 I found out that helicopter radars can now see periscope/esm masts from around 3nm. Prior to this update submarine masts were invisible on radar.
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
you can use the debug menu/F10 to switch sides mid battle as well.
@AL-commander-and-SCP-Scientist
@AL-commander-and-SCP-Scientist Ай бұрын
Ticonderoga with VLS *I have become death, destroyer of fleets*
@jaelwyn
@jaelwyn Ай бұрын
Well, overkiller of one ship in them, anyway...
@tristanbentz224
@tristanbentz224 Ай бұрын
Cap will sea power take any part in your DCS campaigns. Kind of like arma back when you had time to do that
@grimreapers
@grimreapers Ай бұрын
That's actually a really good question. I'll have a think.
@Wyomingchief
@Wyomingchief Ай бұрын
​@@grimreapershey just curious, where did you get the DLC for the update to see power? Apparently I'm blind I haven't been able to find it
@CLGL9-yv8kh
@CLGL9-yv8kh Ай бұрын
Hey Cap, I recently learned about the USS Edsall, an American destroyer in WWII that fought the entire Japanese Kido Butai. In the battle, the Japanese had to fire 1335 shells and use about 100 aircraft against the destroyer to sink it. I was wondering if you could do a video where a 2020s US Arleigh Burke destroyer fights the Japanese in the same way. Could it sink the entire Kido Butai using AShMs and helicopter AWACS? I think it would be cool.
@davidspencer7254
@davidspencer7254 Ай бұрын
Such anachronism always leaves me cold. But enough of you enjoy it that it's a regular thing. If you could explain why you enjoy it so much I'd appreciate it.
@Fury-161
@Fury-161 Ай бұрын
@@davidspencer7254 maybe you should explain why you don't.
@davidspencer7254
@davidspencer7254 Ай бұрын
@Fury-161 maybe you should explain why I should explain why I don't.
@Fury-161
@Fury-161 Ай бұрын
@@davidspencer7254 I wont try to explain why you should explain why you disagree with people by demanding they explain themselves instead of you explaining why you disagree with them to begin with.
@davidspencer7254
@davidspencer7254 Ай бұрын
@Fury-161 because you are just wasting bytes, and everyone's time.
@jamison884
@jamison884 Ай бұрын
Thanks Cap. I have a new video suggestion, please: re-run the "Dance of the Vampires" mission with the NTU mod, including the carrier mod to enable 4 elevators for more accurate fighter launches. A couple of relevant notes from playing Sea Power: - Land attack Tomahawks are terrain-following and can be fired at all land targets, as they will fly over elevation increases. - Anti-ship Tomahawks and I believe Harpoons do not follow terrain, so you have to have the enemy ship come out from behind land coverage or the piece of land has to be really flat. - If you have land Tomahawks and no land targets, you can fire them in the general direction of the enemy ships being targeted, and they will serve as effective decoy missiles as the enemy AI still engages them. - I'm not sure if the NTU mod does this, but future mods should have this feature, so any time a new mod or Harpoon variant is released, check to see if you can assign it waypoints. Apparently the real Harpoon released in the late 1980's/early 1990's had the capability to set waypoints for time on target and multi-directional attacks (as well as to prevent back-tracing the missile's track to find the launch source). - The F10 key offers some options. A useful one is disabling aircraft/helicopters from dropping their fuel tanks if you order them to visually ID or attack a target (they drop them immediately even if you click attack on a target 1,000 miles away; you can manually drop tanks if using this new option).
@CrowDawg11
@CrowDawg11 Ай бұрын
7:50 the Spru-can went broadside to get their Sea Sparrows into firing arc to engage the incoming missiles.
@RampantFury925
@RampantFury925 Ай бұрын
Just imagine how OP the Arleigh Burke will be when somebody inevitably mods it in.
@armandorodrigues144
@armandorodrigues144 Ай бұрын
still would have less missiles than Ticonderoga, a 90-cell AEGIS Arleigh Burke would still be OP but not as OP as a 122-Cell AEGIS Ticonderoga
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
@@armandorodrigues144 The IIA and later flight burkes have 96 cells, but they also have ESSM, which can be quad packed. ESSM is arguably a significantly better anti missile missile than the version of SM-2 that the Tico VLS is in the new NTU Mod. It's both faster and more agile, and you can carry 4x as many of them, and while the range is shorter, it still has a 30 mile range, which is quite good. The Burke has a later baseline version of Aegis than the Tico NTU mod.
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
"Just imagine how OP the Arleigh Burke will be when somebody inevitably mods it in." And the US Navy has 74 of them. 😎
@offensivebias1898
@offensivebias1898 Ай бұрын
Keeping making these great Sea Power videos! Thanks for all the free content.
@quintonthesecond4420
@quintonthesecond4420 Ай бұрын
Love the videos, could you do a battle using the NTU mod that showcases the improved ability of US fighter aircraft? In previous videos, I remember noted frustration with the performance of US fighters. Thus, I'm curious to see how significant late 80's tech improvements were to naval airpower!
@grimreapers
@grimreapers Ай бұрын
Good idea, will try.
@theoneneo5024
@theoneneo5024 Ай бұрын
"It's super cool". That's all I need to hear right now. Good job and good sim.
@RLD_Media
@RLD_Media Ай бұрын
I’m so glad my subscription algorithm has brought yall back to me.
@kozzywozzy
@kozzywozzy Ай бұрын
Tico, even with her mk12 launcher arms, is a BEAST. Her radar was the best in the fleet by leaps and bounds. Combine that with her "new" tech to control her SM-1 and SM-2 missiles, she can engage dozens of targets simultaneously. And again, that was in her flight 1 version thanks to timesharing the illumination radars. You take flight 2 Tico with her VLS and she only gets better
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
There are also chaff warhead versions of Tomahawk that could fly over a fleet and blind the whole fleet when it detonates (or when it's hit) with a massive cloud of chaff. It was not designed for naval combat, but there's no reason it shouldn't work for that too.
@sirissac5103
@sirissac5103 Ай бұрын
The blue side had EMCON on during the exchange.
@grimreapers
@grimreapers Ай бұрын
Must be visual bug, they were using their radars to fire the SM-2 and RIM-7 etc.
@sirissac5103
@sirissac5103 Ай бұрын
@grimreapers Could they have fired them once they were in visual range? The vls ships only began launching interceptors around 7 miles.
@andrewruss5824
@andrewruss5824 Ай бұрын
@@grimreapers Cap, the tico radars werent moving, I know it has the spy 1 static one but surface search wasnt moving and that leads me to believe that it was pure emcon and didnt have air search on too
@ryabow
@ryabow Ай бұрын
it was only the Tico that was emcon. the Spruance had their radars going. @@grimreapers I'm guessing you selected the Spruance as the formation leader, and set it to radar on from the menu, but didn't realize you needed to tell each vessel if they should have radar on or not.
@screechowl4008
@screechowl4008 Ай бұрын
A lot. Question answered. Also, there were major improvements in radar tracking and engaging which is how they fired so many at once. :)
@jamesscott2894
@jamesscott2894 Ай бұрын
Dang, even with EMCON and blinded, the NTU ships could pick up enough ESM to successfully defend themselves anyway (at least one of the two was EMCON, vs Red which had all radars on)
@mdb831
@mdb831 Ай бұрын
I have a good friend and coworker who served on 2 Ticonderoga Class. He was on Port Royal and Yorktown. He told me that Port Royal was superior in every single thing.
@Joepacker
@Joepacker Ай бұрын
Isn't the point of overkill to have something so overpowering that your enemy has no chance to win.
@katherineberger6329
@katherineberger6329 Ай бұрын
Most nations play rock-paper-scissors in warfare. The United States practices being Charles Xavier while playing rock-paper-scissors: Whatever you think you're throwing, we're throwingn whatever beats it.
@robinschingen6757
@robinschingen6757 Ай бұрын
Are blue on blue engagements possible or only with this mod? I mean an Iowa vs Iowa battleship battle would at least be cool to watch.
@Pablo668
@Pablo668 Ай бұрын
I just read that the hull of the Tico's is developed from the Spruance class. No wonder they look so same-ish.
@grathian
@grathian Ай бұрын
Spruance as built - the Mk29 Seasparrow launcher is aft, you pointed out the ASROC launcher. Harpoon is not VLS compatible, it was however compatible with Mk11 and Mk13 launchers on OH Perrys and CFAdams as well as Knox class ASROC boxes. RGM-109B TASM anti-ship Tomahawk was IRL a failure, it could not seaskim and thus presented a softball target to Russian ASMD systems. It was produced in only small numbers and withdrawn in 1994. As such, Tomahawk had essentially no anti-ship capability until the new Block IV version of 2021. VLS Spruances were primarily for land attack,
@michaellucas7882
@michaellucas7882 Ай бұрын
Thanks!
@yester8039
@yester8039 Ай бұрын
The tico can fend off 40 missiles, yet a couple of big ass shipwrecks get through no problem and blows it in a single hit, hmmm
@coffeejelly523
@coffeejelly523 Ай бұрын
There a quite a few problems in the game with missile and gun accuracy as well as with the Shipwrecks having the same RCS as the Harpoons.
@yester8039
@yester8039 Ай бұрын
@coffeejelly523 im no dataminer at all, but the ratio of harpoons i've seen intercepted is WAY higher than shipwrecks, for some reason interceptors almost allways fly over them while they nail other smaller or faster missiles, go figure...
@yester8039
@yester8039 Ай бұрын
@coffeejelly523 im no dataminer at all, but the ratio of harpoons i've seen intercepted is WAY higher than shipwrecks, for some reason interceptors almost allways fly over them while they nail other smaller or faster missiles, go figure...
@Fury-161
@Fury-161 Ай бұрын
@@coffeejelly523 The Sandboxes are much faster and fly much lower than the real missiles are specified to perform at as well.
@wastelander89
@wastelander89 Ай бұрын
Love the videos cap thanks for the awesome naval content. I don't have a pc to play so I really appreciate getting to watch it on your channel. All you have to do when using ntu is give the soviets more or stronger ships when using ntu to keep it challenging for bato ships. That's all. Just change thr amount or give the soviets stronger ships when using NTU American ships.
@AxlePlaysGames
@AxlePlaysGames Ай бұрын
We need a modernised Soviet Navy. Would be interesting to see almost an inverse of the DCS attack on Fujian you did, where the Soviets attack a US carrier protected by SAMs and VLS Ticos, maybe a couple of shore-based F-15s to defend as well, but have lots of Shipwrecks and Soviet Air Force attacking a weakened US force.
@Fury-161
@Fury-161 Ай бұрын
The soviets never made a modernized navy until decades later. You're gonna have to wait for the Chinese to be added in, I'm afraid.
@bobmcguirk7272
@bobmcguirk7272 Ай бұрын
Great job, Cap. Thanks!
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
Is the Nulka anti missile system or Nixie towed anti missile system modeled in Sea Power at all?
@davidhines7592
@davidhines7592 Ай бұрын
if it was search wouldnt the missiles stop doing it when they acquire targets? then if they still do it, its evasive.
@grimreapers
@grimreapers Ай бұрын
Makes sense.
@wastelander89
@wastelander89 Ай бұрын
All you have to do when using ntu is scale the scenarios give soviets stronger and or more ships and keep it challenging. Scale the soviets to more or stronger ships and make it challenging even with stronger nato ships. Basically give the soviets overwhelming odds and see if the Americans can win. Things like that. Maybe some more experiments like single ntu American ships vs 2 stronger soviet ships as experiments
@spineless1
@spineless1 Ай бұрын
Do the Kirovs in the game have Shipwreck missiles?
@FleetDefenderRA5
@FleetDefenderRA5 Ай бұрын
The Spruance upgrade moved some of its ASW weapons to the VLS; I am pretty sure all the ASROCs were moved, and I THINK the number of ASROCs they carried increased. Good video. I thought the older TICO might survive... though totally outclassed.
@00calvinlee00
@00calvinlee00 Ай бұрын
Thank You to the crews of the USS Thomas Gates (CG-51) and USS Moosebrugger (DD-980)! Love Ticos and SpruCans!!
@cdw7458
@cdw7458 Ай бұрын
Put aside the firepower advantage for a moment and consider another maybe more important consideration. Pre VLS American naval warships could have their missile stocks replenished underway anywhere in the world. VLS can only be reloaded at a major naval base specifically equiped to reload the VLS tubes. The navy traded a significant strategic advantage for a huge tactical advantage. Arliegh Burkes in the Red Sea are able to shoot down Houthis' missiles but they can't stay on station very long they have to run all the back to Norfolk to reload.
@robbergerson4915
@robbergerson4915 Ай бұрын
That was a lot of missles all at once! Cap, is there anything you can do with the Knox class frigates? My father served eight years on one as a radar operator and just started watching your videos(says he is going to run the whole channel. I wished him good luck!) He is bummed out that he missed out on aegis though as that went into the next generation of frigates. Maybe a game of frigates tag with older boats to show how it would have been done peer to peer somewhere nice, like New Zealand?
@jyralnadreth4442
@jyralnadreth4442 Ай бұрын
Cap those VLS launches were quite a bit too fast compared to RL rates. The cell being fired vents the exhaust into another. he MK 41 Vertical Launching System (VLS) has a fast reaction time and rate of fire. It can prepare two missiles simultaneously in each 8-cell launcher module. The MK 41 Vertical Launching System (VLS) has a fast reaction time and rate of fire. It can prepare two missiles simultaneously in each 8-cell launcher module.
@6foot1
@6foot1 Ай бұрын
Kinda.
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
To my understanding each VLS bank can fire 1 missile per second. The Tico has 2 VLS banks, so alternating them it can fire 1 missile every .5 seconds. 4 times faster than the maximum rate of the twin Mk26 launchers on the original Ticos.
@benv5812
@benv5812 Ай бұрын
Try a battle with China wee they have their "fishing fleet" aka auxiliary targets mixed in with the navy. What does target saturation do for them??
@dimasrahadian
@dimasrahadian Ай бұрын
so actually the front cannon of modern ships are also "CIWS"
@VintageWanderer
@VintageWanderer Ай бұрын
I was wondering how much better the VLS was and there you go. As a kid that like to build models the VLS looked lame vs on the deck launcher’s. But obvious looks don’t mater in war. Lol. Cheers.
@lightspeedvictory
@lightspeedvictory Ай бұрын
Requesting 2030’s carrier battles in DCS plz. Things to consider: -Zumwalt class destroyers will have hypersonic missiles (don’t know if they’ll be capable of anti-shipping though) -American (and possibly British) aircraft will be using a combination of towed electronic warfare decoys as well as BriteCloud electronic warfare decoys, making them much harder to hit than traditional self-defense jammers and chaff (don’t know about Chinese and Russian aircraft though) -British aircraft will most likely be equipped with air-launched Spear 5 missiles while American aircraft will be equipped with HACM hypersonic cruise missiles -both American and Chinese carrier groups should be equipped with EA-18G Growler and the J-15D electronic warfare aircraft to aid in missile penetration as well as possibly defending against incoming missiles -American AWACS will most likely have missiles specifically designed to shoot down anti-air missiles fired at them -American stealth fighters will most likely be using new generation of stealth materials that not only reduce RCS but also reduce the IR signature, while the NGAD will quite possibly sport a laser dazzler for additional defense against EO/IR missiles -possibility of the NGAD internally carrying HACM, LRASM, JASSM, and AIM-174B -NGAD has a high probability of sporting thrust vectoring nozzles to assist in general flight control due to lack of vertical tails with a knock-on effect of boosting its agility in visual range dogfighting -F-35’s have stealthy wingtip pylons for heat seeking missiles -American stealth fighters will be able to carry stealthy underwing pods for use as either fuel tanks or weapons bays and when jettisoned, they break away cleanly without compromising the aircraft’s stealth
@jamison884
@jamison884 Ай бұрын
I'm with you man, in an ideal world, yes. However, DCS doesn't allow quite a few of these features (such as towed decoys of any kind, infrared/laser dazzlers, and electronic warfare of any kind), and nearly all of the items you listed aren't modded into DCS (per the best of my knowledge). For example, no Zumwalt (let alone a Zumwalt with their new hypersonic missiles), no US hypersonic missiles, no EA-18G or J-15D, no HACM, no USAF NGAD, the USN NGAD GR attempted to mod wasn't accurate (in my opinion) to what their NGAD will be, as the bays didn't have a lot of capacity and the range/speed weren't very impressive, and no stealth pods are modded.
@matthewschuchardt684
@matthewschuchardt684 Ай бұрын
I wonder if you could actually test the dispersed warfare theory that’s been going around for a while as in regards to the naval combat. What I mean is I keep hearing arguments for a lot of small relatively lightly armed warships that carry a few mark 41 tubes to support one or two larger warships. And I just keep thinking that all that’s going to happen is that the larger worships are going to get swamped by attacking forces using conventional tactics or they’re going to lose all the small boats and be left with no ability to really engage larger targets? Kind of curious to see if that’s actually what would happen if you ran in the simulation?
@BlueGroove7
@BlueGroove7 Ай бұрын
This is amazing
@longlive289s
@longlive289s Ай бұрын
Spruence went side on because the cwis are midships on the sides. Sucks you have to make yourself a bigger radar signature to deal with missiles. Soviet ships typically had cwis right on the front and won't go side on
@mikeck4609
@mikeck4609 Ай бұрын
Can any of you surface warfare guys advise as to the rate of fire for the VLS system? That seems a little fast to me, but I’ve only seen it fire multiple missiles one time in a documentary so what the hell do I know?
@ryonacrest6178
@ryonacrest6178 Ай бұрын
The NTU mod is currently using placeholder values for the fire rate of the Mk41 and the specs of the radar. This means that (currently) the NTU VLS Tico is way better than the IRL one was.
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
Norman Friedman's reference books ("Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapon Systems") list the Mk 41 as having a 1 sec cycle rate. The game seems to fire off at a half-sec cycle rate.
@carroll-w7wxv
@carroll-w7wxv Ай бұрын
If my memory serves me, the Russian variants of the Tyco have been much more robust with their hypersonic missiles and defensive capabilities. How about a test of the updated Tycos vs the older Russian variants? more evenly matched, no?
@YT-mn4eq
@YT-mn4eq Ай бұрын
CAP, can you do a dcs video of the A10 in Syria taking out a column coming from Iraq
@icarus_falling
@icarus_falling Ай бұрын
So tempted to buy this game
@johnmatthewrafols2897
@johnmatthewrafols2897 Ай бұрын
Can anyone tell me the a mk 41 vls rate of fire is because it looks pretty fast in this mode like 40-50 missiles per minute
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
Norman Friedman's reference books ("Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapon Systems") list the Mk 41 as having a 1 sec cycle rate. The game seems to fire off at a half-sec cycle rate.
@johnmatthewrafols2897
@johnmatthewrafols2897 Ай бұрын
​@@xenoaltrax485Oh ok thanks I hope they fix it so it not so op
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
@@johnmatthewrafols2897 Here's a couple of vids of actual mk41 salvo fire: (YT is blocking comments with links in them, so I'll just post the video titles and channel names instead) A video titled "Hot Launch! How the vertical launch system VLS work? How it works!" by the channel "How It Works". At the 15 sec mark, looks to be like a little over 2 secs in the vid. A video titled "RIM-66/67 Standard Missile SM-1/SM-2" by the channel "jaglavaksoldier". At the 8 sec mark, it's just the Norton Sound with the EDM Aegis and Mk 41, but look at her firing off a two missile salvo as fast as the game does it, kind of funny, lol.
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
1 sec per nest, the Tico VLS has 2 nests, so one missile every .5 seconds.
@johnmatthewrafols2897
@johnmatthewrafols2897 Ай бұрын
​@@SgtTechComcan I ask for a source please so I can study it more
@adamtruong1759
@adamtruong1759 Ай бұрын
The difference in capability is like heaven and earth.
@chrisconnolly4603
@chrisconnolly4603 Ай бұрын
For complete overkill the NTU mod adds that Ohio class sub with about 128 TLAMs. Still tough for it to take down a Kirov
@jamison884
@jamison884 Ай бұрын
I'm not sure if that's accurate (Kirov surviving that) because it's the 1980's, or super unrealistic per Russia failing to defend against just two missiles with the Moskva.
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
154. The SSGN Ohio's could not and do not use Tomahawk antiship missiles. The TASM was retired over a decade before the first Ohio SSGN was re-launched. They could use block IV TACTOMs though.
@Fury-161
@Fury-161 Ай бұрын
@@SgtTechCom I don't' think there was ever even a VLS version of TASM was there?
@jamison884
@jamison884 Ай бұрын
@@SgtTechCom They will be using the Block V anti-ship Tomahawk soon. Timelines may not match up properly, but close enough. 😁
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
@@jamison884 The Ohio SSGN's are being retired from service next year.
@ivorharden
@ivorharden Ай бұрын
Can you do a sea vs land battle on Seapower? Maybe Russian navy vs US land & vice versa.
@grimreapers
@grimreapers Ай бұрын
Will investigate.
@ivorharden
@ivorharden Ай бұрын
@grimreapers thanks
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
@@grimreapers yes, you can.
@zacharyfeldman
@zacharyfeldman Ай бұрын
Tom Clancy in Red Storm rising has the Julias Fucik turning so that the waterline is higher on the side facing the missile...this is so that the missile (which is trying to hit right at the waterline) would hit higher on the ship and be less likely to have a hole that takes on water. In all these sims so far it looks like the Harpoon hits the topside of the ship (I think it looks like this in both DCS and Sea Power), but a lot of the Russian missiles go straight into the sides. While the internet is obviously a questionable source of actual information, the pop-up of the Harpoon is a selectable attack profile but it is supposedly to better acquire the target and not to hit the deck of the ship, they should be going for the sides too. I have never seen a Harpoon fired, so I could be completely wrong of course, but comments help the algorithm so a rubbish comment is still a comment! :D
@grimreapers
@grimreapers Ай бұрын
All viewer comments are valued, especially this one!
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
@@grimreapers "There are two terminal attack mode: pop-up and sea-skimming. Block 1 AGM-84A is pop-up only, Block 1B AGM-84C is sea-skimming only, and Block 1C AGM-84D is selectable between the two." Presumably the Orion that fires the Harpoon in Red Storm Rising was using a Block 1B AGM-84C, or the pilot specifically selected the water line attack mode of the D model.
@strambino1
@strambino1 Ай бұрын
Tico NTU vs Kirov!
@LOKSTED
@LOKSTED Ай бұрын
Would you rather have unlimited missiles but no VLS or VLS (unlimited VLS) but no VLS
@Mrdjs1133
@Mrdjs1133 Ай бұрын
HELL, YEAH, THIS MOD KICKS ASS. THANKS!!
@armandorodrigues144
@armandorodrigues144 Ай бұрын
the whole game is based on a what-if scenario and they even have some "fictional-ships" and aircraft for the USSR - the improved aircraft carrier and stuff -, right? so why can't the US Navy have the nuclear powered Virginia-Class CGN-42 AEGIS Cruiser in the game? plus some of the ships of the class were undergoing the NTU when they were decommissioned
@mdb831
@mdb831 Ай бұрын
I heard about your demonitization. I PayPal 'd you like 35 GBP. I wish I could do more Skipper. God Bless you and your family and Merry Christmas.
@colchronic
@colchronic Ай бұрын
And that's why the Virginia class cgn was decommissioned
@Dingusdoofus
@Dingusdoofus Ай бұрын
No need for big boat when small boat can now spam far more daka from further away.
@rubiconnn
@rubiconnn Ай бұрын
@@Dingusdoofus Tell that to the huge amount of people who obsess over the Iowa class ships. 16 inch guns are a handicap in the missile era.
@Dingusdoofus
@Dingusdoofus Ай бұрын
@@rubiconnn But the Iowas were pretty useless back then, especially with no SAM capability. Also my point of large ship was referring to the CGNs, not the battleships. But with today’s tech, if you remove the 16 inch guns and their barbettes, you can now fill those massive empty spaces with an unfree healthcare amount large very long range hypersonic cruise missile VLS launchers, while the superstructure is rebuilt to carry regular VLS for SAM and ASW and the Aegis system. That’s basically what the USN is planning on doing with the Zumwalts anyways which is removing their small ammo-less guns and replace them with said hypersonic VLS launchers. Basically turn them into large menaces that can attack land targets from far away without the enemy being able to do anything about it, AKA the same roles battleships were built for. The battleship isn’t truly dead, we simply just need to rethink what a modern battleship should be able to do.
@Dingusdoofus
@Dingusdoofus Ай бұрын
Now imagine a new warship the size of a Kirov or Iowa that is basically just the planned upgrade for the Zumwalt but with basically infinite ammo due to its sheer size. That is a modern battleship.
@jevinliu4658
@jevinliu4658 Ай бұрын
You could probably convert the Virginia class (or build new ones) to VLS at cost, but the key word is *at cost*. They would, being nuclear cruisers, be over 40 percent more expensive to run per ship than a Ticonderoga, and more than twice that of an Arleigh Burke. Without the Cold War going on, and thus a reduced need for cruisers and nuclear powered ships, they got rid of many of their cruisers anyways
@bourbonbrigade
@bourbonbrigade Ай бұрын
Can the 66H’s be used anti-surface?
@jyralnadreth4442
@jyralnadreth4442 Ай бұрын
Every Major Naval SAM from Terrier/Talos/Tartar has an anti surface capability so Standards. Don't think Sea Sparrow has but newer blocks of RAM RIM-116 have Passive Radar homing so can be used against ships that way
@bourbonbrigade
@bourbonbrigade Ай бұрын
@ I understand that for real life. Sorry I was more meaning in the game
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
@@bourbonbrigade I saw one game video (Vietnam scenario) where the player was using Terrier and Talos to attack land targets. I'd guess the game creators would also allow RIM-66 to be used the same way. In another game video, I saw the player (Soviet side) using SA-N-1 Goa missiles to attack enemy ships, so I'd guess the game would let US players do the same with their SAMs.
@dusterl1472
@dusterl1472 Ай бұрын
Not gonna lie... after that last broadside duel with the Iowas, I really wanna see just the Iowas vs... the fucking planet. How much does it take at close range to take one down?
@frenchcar7664
@frenchcar7664 Ай бұрын
Can you cover the recent CH mod
@Ezvil504
@Ezvil504 Ай бұрын
Use the ntu war isn’t fair the us has better eq in some aspects the Soviets and others that’s balanced
@panachevitz
@panachevitz Ай бұрын
Cap, whenever a US ship goes broadside it is to unmask its defensive armament and bring it to bear. 7:45 the Spruance is turning to bring its ESSM to bear along with the phalanx.
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
Sprucans had NSSMS, not ESSM.
@NYFreeman
@NYFreeman Ай бұрын
CG-47 here!!!
@LDB_23
@LDB_23 Ай бұрын
is this with mods?
@Strykenine
@Strykenine Ай бұрын
No one likes a fair fight, Cap.
@enoy645
@enoy645 Ай бұрын
Wish there was modern ships. This game is far more accurate then DCS for naval combat
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
Modders are feverishly working to fulfill your wish.
@enoy645
@enoy645 Ай бұрын
@ and I fucking love the modders man. They’re doing so good
@christopherfox7650
@christopherfox7650 Ай бұрын
The VLS is op but it's so cool at the same time 😂
@christopherfox7650
@christopherfox7650 Ай бұрын
I'd say use the VLS for stuff that the old ones can't do like for example a swarm attack or full air attack ect
@tugfngjfuvj
@tugfngjfuvj Ай бұрын
Infinitely.
@memonk11
@memonk11 Ай бұрын
Nope. That was the ASROC launcher. Sea sparrow, if carried, was aft of the flight deck.
@ecbst6
@ecbst6 Ай бұрын
Maybe the Tomahawks are just hitting F10 to look at the map? 😂
@darrellhartanto4428
@darrellhartanto4428 Ай бұрын
Tico VLS vs 1 Kirov and 2 Slava, Tico VLS would still win; that thing is a beast; if you combine Arleigh Burke with Tico VLS, then it gets crazier, sadly Arleigh Burke is not in vanilla.
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
I dont think the Tico VLS would win that fight more than 5% of the time.
@Failed101
@Failed101 Ай бұрын
NTU MOD TIMEEEEEEEEE
@Bartholomeow141
@Bartholomeow141 Ай бұрын
You didn't turn on radars
@leongao5120
@leongao5120 Ай бұрын
Turn you damn radars on.
@reminder9146
@reminder9146 Ай бұрын
The Mark-41 Mod-0 can't shoot quite that fast. I don't know if the cyclic rate for a single missile deck is classified, but yea.Not that fast.
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
Norman Friedman's reference books ("Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapon Systems") list the Mk 41 as having a 1 sec cycle rate. The game seems to fire off at a half-sec cycle rate.
@reminder9146
@reminder9146 Ай бұрын
@xenoaltrax485 I qualified as a Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist on a VLS equiped TICO and worked as the ID Sup. I can promise you it's fast, but not quite that fast. At least not from 1 deck. It's a game, I get it. But it is simply too fast.
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
@@reminder9146 Care to provide a hint as to how fast it really is as compared to the reference book "1 sec cycle rate"?
@reminder9146
@reminder9146 Ай бұрын
@@xenoaltrax485 It's not much slower. And the ordinance being fired is a factor.
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
​@@reminder9146 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJzCqWqJm95lorM At the 15 sec mark, looks to be like a little over 2 secs in the vid.
@lsy6237
@lsy6237 Ай бұрын
Ticos only fire one vls missile every 7 seconds
@mattseller148
@mattseller148 Ай бұрын
From each 8 cell block, meaning about 15 missiles spaced across 7 seconds or about 2 missiles every second. Thats is if the selected missiles have been perfectly spaced across the differnt blocks so yes the fire rate in game is a little high. They also could not guide that many missiles at once back in the late 80s configuration.
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
Norman Friedman's reference books ("Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapon Systems") list the Mk 41 as having a 1 sec cycle rate. The game seems to fire off at a half-sec cycle rate.
@lsy6237
@lsy6237 Ай бұрын
The cg i was on when i served, i was informed it was one every 7 seconds due to tracking and system limits. Though combat systems was never updated.
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
@@lsy6237 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJzCqWqJm95lorM At the 15 sec mark, looks to be like a little over 2 secs in the vid. Like you said probably improvements done over time since in the vid this is a Burke.
@xenoaltrax485
@xenoaltrax485 Ай бұрын
@@lsy6237 kzbin.info/www/bejne/mainhneaZ6yglas At the 8 sec mark: I know it's just Norton Sound with the EDM Aegis and Mk41, but look at her firing off a two missile salvo as fast as the game does it, kind of funny, lol.
@aurum262
@aurum262 Ай бұрын
“I didn’t like [mod which makes American naval vessels more realistic] because it ruined the game balance” America stay winning.
@jamesngotts
@jamesngotts Ай бұрын
Ships turn broadside because it brings the most CIWS firepower to bearing
@trazyntheinfinite9895
@trazyntheinfinite9895 Ай бұрын
Oh come on, this needed explanation?
@lohrtom
@lohrtom Ай бұрын
I’m surprised the sea sparrow hit anything. It was a real piece of crap missile.
@glenproctor1999
@glenproctor1999 Ай бұрын
Perfectly valid as a mod review Cap but like you said, shouldn't be used in game. As we found in DCS, some mod makers just cant resist tweaking their creations to grossly outperform the thing they're modelling!
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
Why? US VLS & NTU ships absolutely faced down these Soviet era ships. _In fact they still do_ So why should it not be used?
@ivtones
@ivtones Ай бұрын
Jesus Loves You
@MrYaxalot
@MrYaxalot Ай бұрын
If you think the tico vls is op look a the udaloy it’s absolutely ridiculous how good that ship works
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
I am laughing out loud at you.
@CarstenRasmussen-yf6dj
@CarstenRasmussen-yf6dj Ай бұрын
Dont think Ive seen a game yet, where the blues didnt win. Maybe Im watching "the wrong" content creators, but this game seems horribly skewed towards Nato forces. Anyone here seem some Natos losses anywhere?
@SgtTechCom
@SgtTechCom Ай бұрын
watch kirov videos.
@vapertrail6669
@vapertrail6669 Ай бұрын
I love your videos but be realistic... Rapid Dragon would be first line and the Navy would just look for survivers. A real conflict would cost the US a trillion dollarsand our enemies thousands of lives.
@joshuajacofsky5699
@joshuajacofsky5699 Ай бұрын
Not dcs
@Madmax-nh5yd
@Madmax-nh5yd Ай бұрын
no shit
@grimreapers
@grimreapers Ай бұрын
Thanks changed.
@joshuajacofsky5699
@joshuajacofsky5699 Ай бұрын
@@Madmax-nh5yd it was labeled as dcs
@DiesOnAToilet
@DiesOnAToilet Ай бұрын
I was like, did this game get an engine upgrade or something? I don't remember the reflections and explosions looking that good when I played.
@Doodelz02
@Doodelz02 Ай бұрын
Getting old. I'm starting to yell things at the screen. In this instance, it was directed at the older red team: "DIVE DIVE DIVE" (but sadly, it was to no avail). 🤿
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