How Could US Surface Fleets Defend Against Russian Missile Submarines? | Sea Power

[@edmorris1437]

We appreciate any videos you are able to upload at whatever pace works for you. I'm not impressed with how KZbin treats its content creators like yourself, and I want to say that most of us support you looking after your health and family far above over our entertainment.

[@dobster5819]

@@edmorris1437 ^THIS^. Please look after yourself Cap.

[@slarratt]

You need more likes for this my friend ❤

[@JimmyJamm]

My brother was an acoustical engineer and worked on the Trident project. There were two sources of "noise" from subs: first the cavitation going off the props and second the sounds of various pumps used to cool the nuclear power plants. The USN put huge resources into developing and reducing these sounds. The pumps were especially problems because they resonated at different speeds and would cause secondary resonance throughout the hull. The space station had similar issues with resonance which was never really solved.

[@jacehames9317]

I dont know if anyone has commented it yet but DO NOT go weapons hold in a defensive scenario like you did with the first SSN. Weapons hold in this game prevents defenses like chaff, noisemakers, or air defense from being fired off automatically from your assets. Weapons tight will allow the defensive actions but stop offensive actions from taking place. Also MK48 have a TOW feature which is great, you can not only reassign targets after firing, but you can also play mind games with the enemy; example, imagine you’re in a L shape with the hostile sub at the top of the L and you on the bottom right, fire the torps towards where the lines of the L meet and then turn them to the target. The hostile will detect the torps and snap fire back in the direction of the torps, which instead of coming from the bottom right of the L they came from the bottom which means they will miss you almost without fail.

[@joshuabowen5617]

Your wife will enjoy The Hunt for Red October. It’s not just a military movie. Great cast (good looking too), great writing, great music. It’s thrilling. You should read Blind Man’s Bluff. It’s a great history on some of the spy stuff the subs did during the Cold War.

[@ElitistMagi]

Give me a ping, Vasili. One ping only, please.

[@leepatterson5710]

Same with Crimson Tide, it isn't a military movie and like HFTRO is a drama about 2 people who think they are right and the fate of the world in the balance. Hunt for the Red October has Sam Neil, Sean Connery, Alec Baldwin, James Earl Jones, etc. Crimson Tide has Gene Hackman and Denzel.

[@Tuning3434]

@@leepatterson5710 I think you misspelled Stellan Skarsgård wrong (Commanding Officer of Konovalov and Ramius's former student). Also Tim Curry, so why am I typing and not rewatching it already?

[@colbypupgaming1962]

It alsho hash a legendary captain of the Shoviet shubmarine.

[@jimfrazier8104]

@@leepatterson5710 I had just finished being stationed on the real USS Alabama (my last boat) when Crimson Tide came out. The missile sub crews were expressly forbidden from seeing that movie, lest they get ideas about questioning a nuclear weapons release order. Since I hadn't left the area when I separated, I invited a bunch of the guys over to my house to watch it on my home theater.

[@BillB23]

If I recall correctly from reading about it three or so decades ago, US subs had a quieter nuclear plant. Soviet plants used cooling pumps that were noisy in a distinctive way. American plants used convection cooling. Corrections and amplification are cordially invited; learning is fun.

[@NemoGraynameA8]

Americans also had better manufacturing and quality control. The other factor to American submarines being quieter was World War 2 experience. Not that the Soviets didn't have their own submarines in the war, but American submarines were much more numerous.

[@rainerbehrendt9330]

@@NemoGraynameA8 it was also the better Screws until Kongsberg sold the Sowjets the Technology zo make quieter Screws. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba%E2%80%93Kongsberg_scandal

[@Tuning3434]

I'm pretty sure the majority of US plants still use pumps though, atleast at time of this game. A Natural Circulation reactor was however installed on the unique USS Narwhal (SSN-671) which made her exceptional quiet for a nuclear submarine. And updated version of her reactor was installed on Ohio class Ballistic Missile submarine and a derivative on the Seawolf class. And I assume follow ups on the (although more economical) Virginia class. In regard quietness: from what I understood the CCCP boats where pretty good out of the gate, but budget skimping out on maintenance usually resulted on them becoming noticeable noisy over time.

[@rainerbehrendt9330]

@@Tuning3434 The Sowjets also used a Reactor without Pumps. IIRC it was liquid Metal Cooling. The Reactor must stay on at all Times even in Storage. Once cooled down it's impossible to start again. That was one of the REason that Idea was a one of.

[@chriswilliams7182]

@@Tuning3434 I thought the gag was the Sonar operators listening to it had to be careful or they could damage their hearing because Chinese subs were (are?) so loud

[@normadamous]

Thanks!

[@filipearthur5379]

The Echo never detected your SSN, he detected the torpedoes, and the logical response is to fire back in the direction from where the torpedoes are coming. That's why you ALWAYS change course after firing. You can clearly see the Echo fired 3 in response, all in the general direction where he thought you were.

[@grimreapers]

Gotcha

[@slarratt]

Better to be behind in the baffles (the blind spot in a roughly 45 degree angle behind the target) so he can't hear you ideally at a range of 8000yards on the opposite side of the thermal layer if the varience of depth isnt too great, travel at 5 knots or 1/3rd on a 90 degree bearing to his course. use tubes on the covered side, I.e. if the target is on the left use the right two tubes, fire the two tubes. At this point dive to depth slowly if it is programmeable as changing depth makes parts of the hull pop, they would maybe have heard the sound of the launch. Go to 10 knots if no counter fire or sonar ping happens or no aspect change in course, speed or depth. If any of those occur then you are already on the evasion heading go to 10 knots, or 2/3rds until he makes a reaction, when he hears the torpedoes there will either be a ping or counterfire. At that moment full ahead flank... if done properly, you will have torpedoes fired at where you were 2-3 minutes ago, you will be at a different depth and 90 degrees to the course. In the real world we knew the speed and ranges of the torpedoes and the effectiveness of the enemies seeker heads so would work out to continue on course to evade the seeker head, or put the torpedoes in our baffles and run. within the first 10 seconds of a stable torpedo launch, if it changes direction to when you are and they have wire guided capabilities you might note that the best thing at that moment is to run with them behind you. In the real world, with the data of the enemies capabilities we would go out to a point to where they would not hear the launch and we could be out of the range of any counter fire. The last thing we could do is stay in their baffles whilst they are pumping fuel into the missiles at the surface, and then go to depth as you come in 2000 yards away and launch a shallow set torp on a circular search pattern. On their sonar they can hear noise of the torpedo and as bubbles raise to the surface it fills the water with loads of noise. They can't disconnect the fuel lines and pumps etc as it takes a few minutes to do, they can't submerge due to hatches and drag and explosive fuels that react to sea water.

[@slarratt]

​@@grimreapershi cap, me again. Sorry for the essay but this is the best way to avoid torpedoes in real life

[@brettroworth751]

But when a counter fired torpedo is fired it’s in the hope the submarine uses a noise maker or two which will then give sonar an idea of where the sun is going and then a second counter attack can be launched.

[@NemoGraynameA8]

Cap, the "free market" doesn't want to demonetize you. The idiots who don't have the brain power to understand the differences between video games and reality are what is demonetizing you. Im sorry you can't keep doing KZbin full time anymore. You are my second most watched creator and I've found your videos very good for listening too while I work.

[@grimreapers]

Thanks.

[@Hawkathon]

If a Mk-48 loses its wire, it can most definitely turn on its own submarine if it’s gone active. I have heard, though, that some of the more modern Mk-48s (ADCAP/ADvanced CAPability) have programming to recognize and discriminate sonar contacts to prevent them coming back if they get loose.

[@Cohors1316]

I know enough about modern 48s to know I never want to be on the receiving end. Some genius decided to make it programmable so they could make it do whatever they want. Once you have that power your imagination is the limit. The only complaint I’ve heard about them is the amount of boom compared to the Russian torpedoes.

[@stingraygaming2460]

Hunt for red October is a great spy movie and great submarine move and has Sean Connery it’s a great movie

[@spiggs4588]

"I said speak your mind Jack but Jesus!" The late and very great. James Earl Jones!

[@Bruhvernor]

Cap. Most channels I like to watch are de-monetized. Have you ever considered live streams? Followers of channels like yours seem to be very willing to subscribe and gift subscriptions - they even fire off superchats in forms of compliments just to send money your way. Of all the channels I watch, you do so much research and so much work. You are deserving of our support. Also think about twitch.. you already have an amazing community. You just need to give us the opportunity to support you

[@grimreapers]

I'll have a think about it thanks.

[@erickleven1712]

@@grimreapers please bring back the Sunday Funday as a live stream or something. Maybe post them up a week later or something. There's not been enough Thunderdome...

[@wolf06291980]

@@grimreapers To be fair. I didn't even realize you had a patreon! Pump that up in the vids. that;s how war channels are living these days. Throw an ad in. Take a brand deal. Open up memberships. I know you hate all of that as do we all but we're used to it. Hell, even the Operations Room started throwing ads in. Having to take a real job means you're not leveraging your audience correctly. Leveraging is not exploiting. We'll Help out, you just have to ask!

[@RogerKaptunik]

Mk48 is wire guided. If you're not detected yet it is smarter to use their wires to attack the enemy sub from a different angle so when the enemy sub detects the torpedoes, the counter launch goes not into your direction

[@Maeyanie]

10:40: Well, Hunt for Red October features Sean Connery, one of the greatest actors ever, so that should help you sell it.

[@positivelysteve]

Torpedo combat is super interesting, think about it like a miniature submarine: it can be in passive sonar or active sonar, they can run shallow, staying above the thermal layer and diving down to a target or they can stay under the layer and come up. Like with a submarine, you don't want your target to know the torpedo is there, either. You've probably also heard about the wire for the torpedo. This is literally a wire that spools out from the launching sub and allows the firing officer to control what the torpedo does: adjusting its course and speed, whether it's active or passive, and as you guessed, its search pattern if it loses its target. I'm not sure if it's in this game but in Cold Waters if the firing boat would make a sharp turn and speed away from the target, you'll hear a callout "Lost the wire" where the wire will break due to the angle between the sub and the torpedo. When the wire is broken, the torpedo continues with its last orders until it hits something or the battery dies, so it's important to get the orders set when you launch it. When you're far away from your target, you don't want your torpedoes to start pinging immediately because it lets your target know that a torpedo is on the way and the direction it came from. It essentially gives your position away and they can fire torpedoes back that way to try to hit whatever fired them. Typically, you'll set a distance at which the torpedo turns on its active sonar and starts looking for the target and that search pattern can be programmed into the torpedo. If the torpedo is roughly at the same depth as the target, or if you don't exactly know where the target is, it can be steered back and forth to sweep its sonar to hunt for the target ahead of it. Some times, especially for surface launched torpedoes, they'll turn in a constant circle but diving so that they can get a 360º sweep down and down and down until they get to the depth of the target and start actively tracking it. This circle could also be rising if the torpedo was fired deep but you think the target is above that depth. This pattern is important for reactions to noisemakers, too, as the torpedoes will lose their target once they go past the noisemaker and go in a circle to try to reacquire the target. Sometimes they will, sometimes they'll reacquire the noisemaker.

[@ferdievanschalkwyk1669]

MK48 torpedo is like the aim120 of torpedoes. radically improving capabilities over the years. the designation is basically just a designation for the shape, size and role.

[@liquidgoose1518]

So, naval films. If you want to watch something more depressive and from the Redfor point of view you can check out "72 meters", its a 2004 Russian disaster film about crew of a Kilo class submarine in the 90s. They filmed it on a real Kilo and thats pretty cool.

[@IvGorin]

Also has an incredible Ennio Morricone soundtrack, which is sick for a russian movie!

[@mattybob12310]

I remember whilst playing Cold Waters, I was hunting a Wolf Pack of Diesel Electric Hunter Killers, I never heard them until they were right on top of me, I fired my Torpedoes, dove for crush depth and slammed it to all ahead Flank. Forgetting that I'd lose my Torpedo Wires and I was within the Seeker Heads passive range.... I managed to kill the enemy subs but ended up being chased by one of my own Mk48's for a considerable distance :'D, if a Torpedo is not directly wired to you, it is every bit as dangerous as an enemy torpedo. Also yes, the Mk48 Torpedo can be wire guided, it literally trails a wire back to the launch tube which enables operators to change the Torpedo's Hunt parameters. IRL the wires were a couple KM long iirc. Also also, it seems in Sea Power, your Submarine Captains will never Cavitate, even if you order them to all ahead flank, they will go at maximum non cavitation speed for the depth they are at, which could get you caught out if you're not careful.

[@positivelysteve]

Please don't watch U-571. It's a not very good movie and a disservice to the actual British sailors who risked their lives to capture the naval enigma machine. It's definitely not essential submarine viewing.

[@dobster5819]

That film is a joke, as you stated it’s not true.

[@Floki255]

Watch Das Boot again for the 300th time. The original one, please.

[@yipman9021]

Gotta love that PBY Catalina flyby at the end, pissing all over history with a American flag signature.

[@dobster5819]

@@Floki255 oh yeah that’s brilliant, I think I have watched it 4 times.

[@kylemartz854]

Hollywood!

[@Fighterpilot555]

I'd sooner watch Down Periscope a thousand times before I would recommend U-571

[@killman369547]

About the difference in silence between US and Soviet subs. It's a bit more complex than US subs are quiet and Soviet subs aren't. Soviet subs, when they're brand new out of the shipyard are usually every bit as quiet as NATO submarines. However they don't stay that way for long because the Soviets didn't do preventative maintenance and NATO navies did. In practical terms this means before critical items could wear out on NATO submarines they are replaced, while on Soviet subs they wait until something breaks before fixing it (for the most part). This means critical items like vibration mounts don't get fixed frequently enough and so vibrations begin transmitting through the hull into the water creating noise. I learned all of this from Sub Brief (Jive turkey) on a random cold waters live stream years ago.

[@Hawkathon]

In terms of movie stars, they have the following: -Down Periscope: Kelsey Grammer, William H. Macy, Rob Schneider, Lauren Holly, Harland Williams, Toby Huss (did voices in King of the Hill), Rip Torn, Bruce Dern and Harry Dean Stanton; Patton Oswald has a cameo and it was one of his first roles -Crimson Tide: Denzel Washington, Gene Hackman, Viggo Mortensen, James Gandolfini, Jason Robards (cameo); there’s also an early role for Scott Grimes (The Orville and the voice of Steve Smith in American Dad) -The Hunt for Red October: Alec Baldwin, Sean Connery, Scott Glenn, James Earl Jones, Sam Neill, Stellan Skårsgard, Tim Curry; Gates McFadden (Dr. Crusher from Star Trek: TNG has a brief cameo)

[@mobiusmoab]

Crimson Tide also had Steve Zahn(Sahara) and Ricky Schroder(Silver Spoons, 1980s). Yeah, I'm old.

[@exidy-yt]

K-19 The Widowmaker is my favourite sub movie, with Harrison Ford and Liam Neeson however it's not a combat movie, more a psychological thriller however there's lots of cold war goodness, especially right at the start with a simulated nuclear launch on a half-finished sub.

[@Hawkathon]

@@exidy-yt I’d forgotten about K-19 - good movie too. I saw it in theatres with my dad. There are a also some bad movies, though: -Black Sea: Jude Law -One whose name I forget with Ed Harris and David Duchovny

[@crazygmanssimstuff]

One thing with trailing SSN. Soviet docterine would often have screening subs, and surface ASW assest protect and check for ememy SSN'a as they left port, and went through any choke points. So, for that scenario you should have some surface ASW the Sturgeon has to contend with

[@robbergerson4915]

All good movies with class acting. However when consulting the missus . Hunt for red October. Absolutely peak Sean Connery.

[@spiggs4588]

And Sam Neil!

[@rainerbehrendt9330]

@@spiggs4588 One Ping only

[@yourearidiculouslunatic8435]

Fun fact: the gun fight scene is not possible as the missile complex on board of the typhoon class is outside of the two main pressure hulls. Also, typhoons put to sea with 7 pressure hulls if you count the two escape pods.

[@Davros-vi4qg]

Best video on Sea Power yet, well done.

[@theoneneo5024]

Hey Cap. Lots to unpack and cover with this one. 1. Subs have a lot of different sources of noise. The main coolant pumps on a nuke sub have one sound, the aux pumps have a different sound. Turbines have one sound and the props a different one. Almost all engineroom related equipment uses noise isolators, basically big rubber or plastic disks that are tuned to block the equipment's operating frequency from transmitting through the hull and into the ocean. The electrical power generated on subs also has a distinct sound, sometimes called a tonal frequency. For European and Russian subs it is in the 50 Hz range for US subs it is around 60 Hz. 2. When you fired the tops the outer doors opened which is a big mechanical transient noise that carries a long way through water. The main way of launching torps back in the day was to use compressed air to push it out of the tube. Compressed air is very noisy underwater. Standard practice for subs when detecting a torpedo launch is to return fire a torpedo on a reciprocal heading to try and make the sub that fired first break away. Most modern torpedos "swim out" at slow speed and have a wire attached back to the firing sub for guidance until they get in close. When the wire breaks they go active and speed up to find a target. Making the sub turn away can break the wire and force the torp go active too soon and not find the target. 3. You being demonitized is not a free market thing. If anything it falls more into the facism realm. Mussolini said facism is the government, media, and industry all being on the same page (in one fist) and anyone who isn't on that page is to be isolated and punished. Reality is that KZbin is monitored and overseen by a bunch of radical leftists that don't like your content and how you portray the military. And they are fully supported and encouraged by the current UK and US governments. The actual market place (us) like your content and give you views and likes so the only reason you don't get paid is because you aren't saying the things that certain people, who have their hand on the scale, want to hear. Drachinifel is a popular naval historian on KZbin and he has had multiple videos defunded for violations but when he pressed them to show exactly where the violation was in the video they wouldn't provide answers. He, like many others, had to take his case to the community and bigger KZbinrs with more reach to get things fixed. My advice is to make contact with others on larger channels and enlist their help. The big boys have inside contacts and can get responses that you and I can't. I wish you the best and think you deserve to make a fair income based on your content and viewership.

[@Jack_Over9000]

Yeah also I believe a lot of the YT moderation/demonetisation BS is down to the use of unsupervised AI without any mechanism for the creator to defend their case.

[@tbe0116]

The Oscar’s had a large antenna that allowed it to get targeting from the EORSAT satellite system. They weren’t sitting around hoping to hear contacts via sonar.

[@Slikx666]

Hope this helps Cap. 😀👍

[@grimreapers]

Thanks

[@Doodelz02]

Cap: you know you did good when 95% of the feedback reads as "Sean Connery" rather than tactical advice 😛

[@grimreapers]

lol yes indeed. Will please the wife though?

[@Doodelz02]

@grimreapers Always a tough call. If she's OK with drama & mild thrillers, Red October (big budget Tom Clancy adaptation) is a pretty safe bet. Your own glee (100% guaranteed) will carry the day. The "Down Periscope" Kelsey Grammer comedy is ok, but at 11% Rotten Tomatoes .... not my first choice. Red Oct is 88% RotTom ... plus Academy Award Oscar winner (fine, for "sound", wuddever 😝).

[@spikymikie]

And then there's "Down Periscope" which is just funny as hell!

[@nomorerainbows]

Fire more harpooons? NOOOOOoooooooo.....let's make sure the enemy fires all it's sunburns at us first.

[@spiggs4588]

Watch Crimson Tide. It's got the great Gene Hackman in, but also Denzel Washington and Vigo Mortensen as eye candy for the Mrs. Best of luck!👍

[@verspunken]

Hey Cap, add Le chant du loup (The Wolf's Call) to your viewing list. Actually features wire-guided torpedoes.

[@JonathanHStone]

I'd recommend that you spend some time on the KZbin channel SubBrief. A former US Submariner hosts the channel and discusses current and historical naval news through the lens of his experience in the silent service.

[@Killa_Kamz]

The Russian SSGNs were used more so for defense, like most cold war era stuff since most never saw action action. One of their key design purposes /strategic outlook was also port attacks. But a nice follow up video idea would be the the US's ssgns in the game as well. The U.S's tomamahawk missles are actually better desgined and created in mind to be used against naval strike groups unlike their Russian counterparts

[@Arks1103]

There are a few reasons while early soviet subs like Whiskey, Foxtrot, Echo, Tango and November where noisier than their US counterparts: 1. Irregular hull shape: they were early sub designs based on ww2 German U-boats, had very different shapes instead of smooth cylindrical as today, this made them quiet noisy as they traversed through the water. 2. lack of stealth technologies, unlike the US subs which had already started using anechoic material and to reduce noise profile and absorb sounds, soviet subs were still in their classic livery of green underbelly and very minimalistic rubber coating. 3. US had through its ww2 submarine operations learned a lot about propellor designs and the best design to create a minimum noise, also the nuclear reactor technology on US subs was quiet advanced. The soviets did not operate subs in ww2 in huge numbers, so had very less experience about prop designs and their early reactors were loud as f***. 4. Maintenance, the Soviet subs were often found in very poor state with no proper maintenance which would gradually lead to increase in noise levels due to wear and tear in the parts. So this is why soviet sub technology was pretty shit until later subs like the Victor III, Sierra, Akula class arrived which were pretty stealthy.

[@liquidgoose1518]

The Soviet submarine fleet was the biggest one in Europe when the WW2 started, they operated them in significant numbers however various factors (corruption, negligence, lack of training, inadequate doctrine and outdated weaponry) resulted in a colossal failure of the Soviet underwater fleet, which is quite an interesting story in itself

[@Arks1103]

@@liquidgoose1518 ah, thanks for correction

[@Floki255]

On the island Fehmarn in the baltic is a underwater listening post. All soviet submarines traversing these waters were accompanied by a russian freighter. The sub traveled directly under the freighters on a predesignated course. All the ferry and merchant captains in the area knew that these freighters wouldn't change course no matter what, because than the sub would no longer be masked and could be detected. For this reason, as soon as a soviet freighter approched, every other vessel would be warned with a message: "Verrückter Ivan im Anmarsch." Meaning "Mad Ivan approaching." So they could give way to avoid collision.

[@haytorrock3312]

Paradoxically this would mean they were super easy to pick up to track.

[@patricktracy4371]

Alec Baldwin? Sir Sean? good enough

[@Jajalaatmaar]

There's no youtube channel that makes me feel more valued as a viewer. Thanks.

[@Patrician9000]

Mark Felton just did a great video on Russian conventional attack on Great Britain. Could you guys check it out and do a mission based on that scenario he describes? I think it would make for convincing MilSim Cinema. Thank you and keep up the Grim work!

[@skankhunt9078]

U r my favourite KZbinr because u call me valued viewers. You are the only person who makes me feel like I'm not worthless. Thank you ser

[@erickleven1712]

"Down Periscope"!!! My wife laughed her ass off. Do it.

[@Eken-]

I just wanna say how much i love these scenarios you try out brother! ❤ Hi to all the Grim Reapers from Sweden 🇸🇪👋

[@stephennelmes4557]

I was a radar operator on Royal Navy frigates during the Cold War. Anti submarine operations were long tedious and boring. A S W = Awfully Slow Warfare 🐌. Active was bad enough. Then along came Towed Array Passive Sonar and 12 week patrols in the GIUK gap. Zzzzzzzz😴😴.

[@Hawkathon]

I have a trilogy of submarine movies to watch about submarine warfare in the modern era: The Hunt for Red October, Crimson Tide and Down Periscope. The first 2 are serious dramas while Down Periscope is a light comedy but really funny. In The Hunt for Red October, there’s a rather unfortunate series of lines spoken to and by Alec Baldwin. Sean Connery says, “Be careful what you shoot at, Ryan. Most things here don’t react well to bullets.” A few moments later, after getting shot at, Alec Baldwin exclaims, “I have to be careful what I shoot at!”

[@Tuning3434]

Down Periscope has been confirmed by service man to be a fully accurate representation of what happens when you cram a few dozens of 20 year olds for weeks in a metal tube.

[@solomongray6352]

Passive sonar would def hear the mechanics of the torpedo prep and launch. Modern subs have swim out torps that are not flushed out in the typical sense.

[@robpearce7891]

I was a little confused by the ASW choice (4th one). The helicopters/aircraft would have been in the air patrolling around the carrier group hunting the subs and trying to kill them before they can fire. The S-3C Viking had a range of 2700 miles and would operate a large distance away from the carrier especially in mid ocean (Atlantic/Pacific) where the enemy air threat would be a lot less. Quick reaction aircraft from a carrier to hit a surfaced sub firing missiles would, as you discovered, be pointless!! (Sorry meant S-3B.)

[@ZLensman]

+1 I agree completely that when people requested ASW assets from the previous video they meant sending the S-3s and ASW helicopters out to drop sonobuoys ahead of the battle group to detect Soviet submarines. I'm not sure how exciting a video of patrolling the area ahead of the battle group for hours will be, but diving to the deck at 15,000 feet per minute to drop your Mark 46 torpedo should be excitement enough, right?

[@grimreapers]

Fair comment, but from my experience with ASW so far, finding a sub at those huge ranges and over such a vast area would be extremely difficult.

[@KH990j]

You were asking about how subs identify different sounds. I feel that the old game Dangerous Waters had a sonar station where you can see different wavelengths of different ship sounds. The game also show noise intensity. Submarines usually had a very different but difficult to hear sound. Towed arrays hear mirrored sound and the way to negate that was to turn the sub and see which contact stayed put.

[@mattt525]

Everyone knows Operation Petticoat & Down Periscope are the best Submarine movies and a ton of fun to watch.

[@armoredpriapism]

Ive been trying to make scenarios in SP the past few days and understand your pain

[@ecbst6]

I have no relevant information to contribute, just enjoying the show thus far 🙂

[@chrisstopher2277]

Cap always makes me feel like a valued viewer.

[@guillaumevalli5031]

Love your work CAP. Courage, you gonna be able to make it, I pray for you to keep at it. Best to your family

[@MonarchNF]

Crimon Tide. It's tight, fantastic dialog driven suspense. It's not really a military movie, it's a character drama on a US submarine.

[@Ghosts1129]

A really cool story: Submarine warfare happened when a soviet commander tried to defect with his submarine, long story short 3 subs were in the same place, 1 American, 2 Russian - one being the defector. The Russian sent a torpedo towards the other Russian and so the American got in the way to have the torpedo track it, it then turned and was able to lose the torpedo by giving it a new target... The sub that fired it. The operations room made a video about it I think...

[@jovianr9498]

Better than watching those movies would be to look at streams and KZbin videos from people like Jive Turkey (former sonar operator in the USN), stealth17 gaming and wolfpack345. Great video as always.

[@coffeejelly523]

An interesting tactic used by the USN in the late cold war was to sail their carriers into Westfjord in Norway and seal the entrance off with CAPTOR mines. The high mountains surrounding the fjord would protect the fleet from radar and missile attack allowing the CVBG's to operate in the Soviet's backyard with near impunity. Would be interesting to see how this works out in Sea Power.

[@SgtTechCom]

Cap: "Should we fire more harpoons?" Fly: "Nah" (Let's give the enemy a chance to shoot all their missiles at us first) This was painful to watch. Absolutely painful.

[@zaretya9091]

Just one minor thing: an SSN sitting on the bottom would not be able to effectively transmit data, as radio can't really get deep underwater. Submarines can use VLF antennas with a very low bitrate (as in its measured in bits per second), but that only works near the surface.

[@SuperDeathgun]

Headphone users watch out for 5:05.

[@Hawkathon]

If you want a good introduction to submarine warfare, play the game Cold Waters. It’s the parent game to Sea Power and is not as complicated. It’ll give you the fundamentals of submarine warfare.

[@merlinbarlow]

Hey cap for future battles if you want to control both side in Sea Power you can hot F10 and select the tools and enable control enemy units. There are a ton of other useful stuff in the F10 tool

[@robjohnson5872]

Don't have time to read all comments to see if it's already been discussed, but right after you shot your torps you need to get out of the area. The enemy subs can trace the torp trail back to you. Even if they don't detect you, they'll often fire torps down that line you sent your torps on knowing they will go active after a predetermined distance and search for your sub. As far as why the Americans were quieter subs, one of the most important differences were the propellers used by the Americans, they were just quieter than the Russians could make them. That's why when Japanese manufacturer TOSHIBA lent/sold (whatever) propeller manufacturing capabilities to the Russians it was an international incident, dramatically reducing the noise of the Russian subs. I remember seeing people smashing Toshiba "Boom Boxes" with sledge hammers in front of Congress.

[@ecbst6]

Did the list of films include Ice Station Zebra?

[@spiggs4588]

An absolute classic! Also the Bedford incident!

[@ecbst6]

@@spiggs4588 Oh, good call!

[@ryanpayne7707]

20:15: Soviet doctrine called for firing a full load of missiles at the beginning of an engagement. If they submerged after launching, they'd be out of ammo and their missiles would've been harmless.

[@kylecoyle1675]

You want to send an S-3 Viking with ASW loadout for that third scenario, not the A-6 with Harpoons. The submarine can't get more than a few miles from the launch point, and the S-3 has dozens of sonobouys. They fly quickly to the last known location and start dropping lines of sonobouys, then put one the 4 Mk46 lightweight torpedos once found. Helos are more for close in sweeps/contacts. As others point out, a carrier group would have a net of sonobouys near and far being dropped almost constantly, but not 200+ miles out I'm guessing.

[@eaches]

I was there for the filming of Red October (they used a lot of us stationed in Long Beach as extras at the time). I'm thinking you can sell Mrs. Cap on the cast - Connery, Curry, Baldwin... Come on! ... Just.. Disregard the whole remote torpedo self-destruct scene. They built a cool scale model of the sub though.

[@Kevin-hp5fk]

Best submarine movie? The Wrath of Khan.

[@rainerbehrendt9330]

Don't forget Das Boot

[@Kevin-hp5fk]

@@rainerbehrendt9330 That'll always be a TV show in my heart. The movie is so short and misses out on a shocking amount of the tension. But the directors cut of the movie has the most tragic ending.

[@rainerbehrendt9330]

@@Kevin-hp5fk I own all Versions of Das Boot. The best is the Two Part TV Version. Second is the Directors Cut. As a German my prefered Language is German but some of the Actors doing their own Englisg Dub.

[@Joe45-91]

Greyhound was the epitome of "You think we could get away with CG everything?" Parts of that thing were embarrassing

[@Jaka515]

I honestly can't believe you haven't seen The Hunt for Red October. It's a classic

[@TheRaginCajun6]

Finally the good stuff boats, I graduated from B.E.S.S.in May 2006 and been waiting to see some good sub content. Hooyah Navy!👏🏻

[@kingofbritons]

Subs don't have to surface to operate radar, Radio, or other ECW stuff. They can raise the mast or periscope while the sub stays underwater and operate those functions. The masts and periscopes aren't stealthy last I heard, so they could be detected, but the body of the sub wouldn't break the surface.

[@Cidem07]

Turning your back on torpedo as submarine is a bad idea: you can't hear the incoming torpedo because of your propulsion (it's "in the baffles") and you expose the noisiest part of your ship to torpedoes' sonar. Also: You can shadow enemy submarine by moving behind it.

[@meansofproduction4213]

A huge reason for the Soviet subs being louder was their deficit in fine machine tools and associated machining techniques. The CNC milling revolution meant our props and everything between the prop and engine were much more finely machined, balanced, and CAD designed.

[@NemoGraynameA8]

So if a submarine detects incoming torpedos, the procedure is to fire your own torpedoes back down the direction the enemy torpedos are coming in from and then move as fast as you can away from the incoming torpedoes. You do this even if you don't detect whatever fired on you. As the initial attacking submarine, there are various things you can do to avoid the retaliating strike. The first thing you should do is try to mask the sound of firing your torpedoes. You can do this by putting the bulk of your submarine between the enemy and your torpedo tubes either by turning away (forward facing torpedos) or broadside (side launched like the Los Angeles-class) and using the tubes on the opposite side. Also, being on the other side of the thermal layer can mask your launch noises. Just make sure you go back to the same side of the layer as the target to guide the torpedoes in after firing. Then, you want to make sure your own torpedos are not directly between you and your target. You can do this either by moving away from the place you launched the torpedos from or setting way points for the torpedos so they will move away you before turning to attack. It's usually best to do both at the same time to get the maximum distance.

[@ecliptix5436]

Crimson Tide was so unrealistic that the US Navy told the movie company to go use an Italian sub. It's a decent story but not necessarily fully reflective of reality. Also, the Mk48 was wire-guided.

[@mrlodwick]

Capt, you could fire the torps, and set them to attack from different angles and depths. You could steer them with a joystick and trailing wire.

[@SWBB1000]

Play as the USN navy, but avoid the incident on July 3rd 1983. Avoid shooting down Iran Air 655 while battling the gun boats harassing/attacking your warships. Major issue that could have solved the issue was the naval pilots that could have visualized the aircraft but due to communication issues they didn’t receive the command. Side note there was an Iran P-3 along the coastline, keeping a eye on the warships. So that was one of the few reasons they assumed it was a enemy F-14

[@1over137]

Would it not be more topical to determine if the UK can defend itself against SSN launched cruise misiles?

[@killman369547]

It really depends what type they are and how many there are. If it's a wave of 20+ 3m22 Zircons... yeah the UK ain't stopping that. I mean you can try but it ain't gonna work.

[@grimreapers]

VERY topical.

[@bruceyawen6160]

So the harpoon was original intended to be used against surfaced submarines? Okay now the naming of the weapon makes sense

[@grimreapers]

Ah... yes, well spotted.

[@AT2Productions]

I'm not as knowledgeable as my father (retired USN E8 submariner) or Jive Turkey (aka Aaron Amick of the channel Sub Brief) but until the mid/late 1980's the US submarine fleet was significantly quieter than their Russian/USSR counterparts. Two big reasons for this are shape and machining of the propellers, and machine quieting strategies and technology for the things inside the submarine itself. Sadly, both of these advantages were narrowed due to a spy ring who was woefully underpaid for what info he and his family gave out. But, with the Flight II and Flight III 688i (Los Angeles class) and follow-on Seawolf and Virginia classes of submarines have re-established more of that technological dominance.

[@rotteneggs29]

Surface ships also use the Prairie-Masker which helps hide their screw blade information but it is really loud so sonarman t is not anything natural or biological.

[@thegooddoctor2009]

The most essential submarine movie is Down Periscope. It's unironically the most accurate Navy movie ever made.

[@arandomredarmykomrade9529]

The way a submarine equipped with the mk48 might avoid hitting a certain target, is by virtue of the mk48 being wire guided up until the point of it going "pitbull". The reason the mk48 is so widely used by the us is just because it is great... That's all we really know since it is still our primary torp.

[@TesseraktGaming]

10:04 - I'm surprised nobody recommended Down Periscope, which is a comedy submarine movie. It's a must-see.

[@AT2Productions]

15:30 Yes, that is a search pattern for an active warhead.

[@Eken-]

I know that in Swe Navy were trying out a speaker system to put on there fleet and to disturbe there sonar picture. Dont now If they went any further with it but i know a friend was in with me in the army and we talked about this sonar ecos and such

[@TheGermanHDGamer]

A tip for the game: you can enter debug mode with F10, e.g. you could force the subs to stay at the surface and so much more!

[@Joshua-dt5vi]

For sea power, how do you make it on the editor so that you can see and view the enemy group? Also, how do you fire the Tomahawks from Virginia cruisers and Iowa battleship? My ships just do weird maneuvers but never fire for some reason.

[@disketa25]

What about possible mass usage scenario? I imagine that such outdated subs as Echo IIs could be scrambled in wolfpacks should the need arise. Like, for a group of four subs 32x missiles in a combined salvo could be very, very dangerous even for such outdated tech. As another idea, try to simulate some combined warfare to soften the CV screening, as if some VLS-capable ships were sunk by another sub/airstrike.

[@barramundi1479]

Mk 48 Adcap is a lethal bit of kit. So many countries use it because of its effectiveness, charge size and ability to convert a vast array of vessels to Submarines. Seen its effectiveness first hand in both practice and war-shot configuration. Rarely suffers malfunction, is VERY hard to shake and has a huge psychological effect on all sailors and vessels if the potential is there for a platform to be loitering. It has numerous modes in both speed and search pattern, outstanding passive capabilities and once she goes active on you it’s pretty much game over. A supremely frightful weapon that will keep you awake at night at sea if you are up against a country that has them.

[@stephenbachman132]

Off memory the Mark 48 was designed around the width of the torpedo tube which hasn't changed I think

[@iplaygames8090]

13:08 pretty sure the distance is between it and the thing you are currently spectating

[@yaraelpoof7242]

At the start of the Cold War us subs were quieter but by the end of the Cold War Soviet subs where quieter

[@Pablo668]

Was the S3 Viking not a thing in this era? Damn cool anti sub aircraft. Now this is unhelpful, but I imagine there's be shore based patrols from NATO countries, things like the Orion or similar. I think the Nimrods were still operational in this era, even if they were in Britain.

[@stevenmiller184]

At the height of the Cold War, a Soviet Submarine bumped into an American fleet asset. This was disconcerting because, historically, Soviet submarines were easy to track, follow and destroy because of the cavitation of their propellers. How did this happen? As it turned out Toshiba had illegally sold computerized milling machines to the Soviets allowing them to make silent propellers. They put the safety of the western world in mortal danger in the interest of profit. shocking. They were never held to account for this and since then I have refused to buy a Toshiba product.

[@Tamburello_1994]

Johnny Walker did more damage than anyone.

[@stevenmiller184]

@@Tamburello_1994 I am personally a fan of Johnny Walker Black. Neat.

[@glenproctor1999]

They're just off the Russian coast so you wouldn't get chance to attack from the air. In the open ocean, you had the Vikings to hunt submerged subs. Shadowing as subs leave port is extremely risky, the Russians would sweep the exits with Beriev fixed wing and Kamov rotary ASW very thoroughly as subs leave. They would also have ASW ships on duty just outside the port.

[@ActuallyJamie]

Defeating sound has everything to do with how subs are built now from the materiels used to make the sub, to the coatings and panels on the outside down to the screws and bolts on the inside. Even when talking out loud back in the 60's 70's the enemy could pick up on that. You should watch the movies Hunt for Red October, Down scope, and K19. Hands down best 3 submarine movies ever made (there migbt be another 1 or 2 but those are the main)

[@miketkaczyk894]

Hunt for Red October is a easy sell! The raw sex appeal of young Alec Baldwin, younger Sean Connery, Sam Neil, James Earl Jones, and Stellan Skarsgard! Baldwin plays Jack Ryan (yes THAT Jack Ryan) and he uses his brain to stop a nuclear war. There's action, drama, a touch of comedy and a stellar cast and story. I've probably watched it like 30+ times lmao

[@SgtTechCom]

Cap: "Viewers what are we doing wrong?" Viewers: YES

[@ElitistMagi]

I can't wait for this game to improve, the air to ground combat is pretty bad right now but maaaan does this game have potential.

[@grimreapers]

Agreed