How much engine oil consumption is normal? (In a modern engine.) | Auto Expert John Cadogan

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[@wburger2178]

Land Rovers don't leak oil. They are marking their territory.

[@10beerman]

Its part of the active anti-corrosion system.

[@billharris3650]

English engines, if there’s no oil under them, there’s no oil in them...

[@AutoExpertJC]

That's a good way to look at it. Lucas says hi.

[@artmallory970]

Land Rovers don't leak oil, they only mark where they have been...

[@dustyfarmer]

Not true, I used THREEBOND to seal up the gasket surfaces on my 1969 Triumph 650 Bonneville. People used to question whether there was any oil in it.

[@karl4834]

@@AutoExpertJC Lucas, the Prince of Darkness.

[@jbstepchild]

Ah the old mg a is like that aswell I believe they called it self changing oil everytime I park in its spot I freak I gotta oil leak but nope just the mg lols

[@donr62]

Ahh, the good ol’ daze of rolling up to a full driveway service servo in your EH. “Fill the oil and top up with super thanks mate.”

[@AutoExpertJC]

Yes - I remember those days, when the world was shit and cars were even shitter.

[@gazzafloss]

@@AutoExpertJC a friend of my dad bought a new EH wagon and it burned copious quantities of oil, when it was stripped down under warranty the dealer found some pistons had missed out on having some rings fitted. Them were the days, shit cars, too right.

[@OilBaron100]

Auto Expert John Cadogan how was the world shit? At least you didn’t have to put up with speed cameras, radar guns, HECS debts for your education, and casual employment.

[@theairstig9164]

@@OilBaron100 "Leaded petrol and benzene as an octane improver" for starters

[@rogerpearson9081]

@@gazzafloss I had an uncle who related the fun he had with his brand new XD falcon.He got to know the dealer really well but the best one was when they took the head off the engine (Cant remember why)and one of the cylinders was sleeved from the factory which was even a surprise to the dealer.

[@HunterXray]

My 2015 Forester (6-speed manual) has burned roughly a quart of oil every 1,600-2,000 miles, even before I reached the very first oil change at 6,000 miles. But, it still runs great with 318,000 miles on it and oil consumption hasn't increased.

[@jamesmedina2062]

HunterXray call that major victory for oiling and longevity. They and you achieved a relatively healthy balance for boxer engine type especially.

[@AgentSmith911]

That's very lucky. I've seen a lot of Subaru owners complain of engine failure even before 100 000 km on the odometer. Volvo and Toyota are usually the brands that have the best reliability, especially those built before the late 90s. My grandpas Volvo 940 lasted for 600 000 km with only regular service intervals and maintenance with a spare parts used here and there. My first car was a Toyota Corolla with over 300 000 km on it, no problems with it at all. My new Toyota Auris has just got 130 000 km and has had more issues unfortunately, but that's mainly because it's a diesel and has a tendency to clog with sot.

[@lucavangorkom9453]

Your timing is perfect. Oil warning light just came up on my Audi and I topped it up, hopped on youtube and your vid appears uploaded 10 minutes ago :)

[@AutoExpertJC]

I do aim to please.

[@David-lr2vi]

Luca van Gorkom. Don’t want to be the bearer of bad news but if the oil warning light came on you’ve already damaged your engine.

[@lucavangorkom9453]

@@David-lr2vi no I haven't. It's a notification that says to check oil level. It turns on whenever the oil drops below the "ideal minimum" Mark, which is still well above the actual minimum mark. Comes on every couple months or so, or 5,000km. I do 5k km a month and top up about half a litre every month. 3.2 V6.

[@David-lr2vi]

Luca van Gorkom. Ok. I took oil warning light to mean the one most cars usually have that only tells you after your sump has run dry!

[@lucavangorkom9453]

@@David-lr2vi hahaa I'd be shitn my pants if I'd let it get that bad. Should've said check oil level light instead.

[@atticstattic]

*This* John Cadogan could insult me, and I'd thank him for it!

[@AutoExpertJC]

Bastard!

[@atticstattic]

@@AutoExpertJC Thank you!

[@yggdrasil9039]

@@atticstattic True to your word sir! Commended.

[@thehairygolfer]

@@AutoExpertJC I always thought bastard and the c word were terms of endearment. It's when you get called 'mate' you're in trouble.

[@jamesmedina2062]

Auto Expert John Cadogan 🤣🤣🤣🤣👏

[@HypocriticYT]

My first car an old 1953 Caddy coupe dripped oil and used a quart a week or so. Once I got all the leaks repaired the engine blew a hole through a cylinder wall.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Congratulations. That worked out well...

[@HypocriticYT]

@@AutoExpertJC yes I no longer repair leaks

[@Soh90]

Lol sorry to laugh mate 😂😂😂😂 but that was funny as hell hahahahaha!!!

[@HypocriticYT]

@@Soh90 I laughed to (what else could I do) when the blue smoke filled the street when the piston went in the oil pan and took out the cylinder wall. I learned this after when the engine was stripped. A friend who then owned a VW bug pushed my 53 Caddy about 4 blocks back to my driveway.

[@ScottMurrayBestFamilyCars]

Kinda like sneezing when you have a cold and your ears pop.

[@nir8924]

Must admit that you've got me by surprise. When I saw the title I was expecting to hear that "even a single drop of oil missing means problems". I own two relatively new vehicles (a Mazda and a Honda bike) and I rarely check their oil, assuming that new engines just don't burn oil + all the electronics will warn me anyways. (Edit: assuming there's no obvious signs like blue smoke) Thanks for today's lesson John !!

[@patsaun2388]

Just FYI most motorcycles won’t warn you of low oil, by the time the oil light comes on the damage is done

[@nir8924]

@@patsaun2388 OK OK I got it .. I will check the oil level every week I will check the oil level every week I will check the oil level every week ... 200 times :)

[@ShainAndrews]

@@patsaun2388 If it decides it wants to catastrophically seize the engine or transmission the result could be catastrophic. Imagine a beautiful long sweeping curve. Maybe the trans locks up, so the ass end locks up, and no amount of clutch pulling will change that.

[@robg6485]

There's a reason why they call it an idiot light...

[@chefgav1]

Subaru's are absolute pigs on oil. Mine used to 5 litres per 10k

[@tomgeorge3726]

Great video John.👍👍👍👍👍 I own a 2006 Kia Rio, 260,000km , regular services and no faults and it uses a litre at about 7,500km. I put it down to, as you say, old age, but also driving environment. 90% of the time my car does a 10 minute run to and from work, especially during these pandemic times. I do however on the one day a week I go shopping , I take the looonnggg way to and from the supermarket to give the engine a chance to get that oil hot for a while to evaporate any water etc. I enjoyed your video on low km running during these difficult time too. Keep up the informative sarcasm mate...👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@weatherwatcher5303]

Could be worse my honda will burn 5 litres in that time haha you have zero to worry about

[@letsseeif]

Thanks for your very useful, educational, and reassuring video for we average motor vehicle owners.

[@hxkdneuxbxjdidndnxj]

my 3L V6 Audi consumed 4 litres per 15,000 km. New 2L I4 Audi A6 consumed 2L per 15,000km (about 15,000km on the clock). However, our new Benz E-200 Coupe (C207 chassis) with M274 engine doesn’t consume a single drop - never topped it up between services in the past ≈70,000km. However, an interesting point about this engine - while it has a displacement of roughly 2 litres, it requires 6 litres of oil for service. Either it doesn’t consume the oil, or the extra 2 litres or so of oil is there for the consumption.

[@kenchorney2724]

Great explanation of the balancing act that modern engineers perform. I wonder if the "new normal" rate of oil consumption has any negative effect on catalytic converters?

[@Dmxravin]

It does that’s why new spec oils tend to less and less SAP content.

[@IIMurphaII]

I've got an early 207 GTI which uses a steady 500-700ml of oil per 5000km or so with ~200,000km under its belt. The handbook stated there was no reason to be concerned unless consumption exceeded 500ml per 1000km between services! Still seems excessive - even for a turbo engine! Good to know that oil consumption can be by design. Great explanation! Thanks for the video, John!

[@jamesmedina2062]

IIMurphaII your use is low. The service manual is full of shit though!

[@jbstepchild]

No no no it's a way for manufacturers to push off the engine failure responsibility onto the customer but otherwise your very right

[@jamesmedina2062]

stepchild Governments should evaluate and require certain emissions performance over time and force the manufacturers to reduce aging. This would automatically force better performance (cleaner). But of course they don't want to bankrupt companies so they surely back off at some point and let market forces work themselves out

[@dazaspc]

The ability of today modern machine tools to hold size to the extent of not requiring frequent measurement of components made is genuinely amazing today. I have repaired machines that will hold 3~5 micron variation in size over thousands of parts per day and it was even in castings. The quality and abilities of today's lubricants compared to the oil of 40 years ago regarding it's ability to safely carry contamination and deal with greater temperature ranges {think oil cooled pistons} makes the older stuff look unprocessed in comparison. A modern 4 stroke engine should not burn oil at all. In fact the level should increase prior to service due to the contamination load it carries if the oil control rings are doing their job. Not by a lot but if all is in good order it should not use any. I believe that ever since we have had catalytic converters in Australia car makers have been allowing more and more oil to be burnt as it isn't advertised out of the tail pipe. Think back to the mid 70's when it was quite common for a Japanese car to be blowing plumes of oil smoke at distances as low as 60000 kilometers. The Mazda 929 of that era comes to mind and when striped for replacement rings the bores were found to have no wear yet the spring in the piston rings were found to be so soft you could twist them like a piece of wire. Mazda are and never have been that incompetent so why put such soft rings in their engines? The answer was Japan adopted Unleaded petrol in 72 so these were mostly fitted with catalytic converters and a cat will fix the tailpipe smoke. No cats on the piston engine 70's Mazda's in Australia however. The last bit I may add is prior to the purchase of a new car a good part of the use requirements are available to the prospective buyer. Fuel consumption, Service frequency, appropriate fuel even warranty and what it will cover, however I have never seen or been informed of acceptable oil consumption volumes until pointed out by myself to the service department. At the very least these standards should be pre determined and the information available to the prospective buyer in a documented format. I may not have encountered as many people as yourself who have had this problem but every one I have always seems to have consumption that falls just short of the required amount for action to be taken by the manufacturer. That information is very difficult to obtain until there is an issue. Rant over Cheers

[@dazaspc]

@@carsonj1 Yeah I know double space. I did it on my phone. It was a rant

[@ShainAndrews]

"A modern 4 stroke engine should not burn oil at all." I disagree. You made lots of general statements which appear to be factual and accurate, however the specifics are where general statements do not apply. The metallurgy of just the pistons has changed a great deal. Piston rings have been getting shorter and shorter, while also reducing tension. The oil you mentioned has been getting thinner and thinner. Combine those independent changes and oil consumption is expected, especially for short commutes, or where ambient temperatures frequent near freezing. Your catalytic converter theory based on vintage foreign cars... The cars were engineered to meet a price low point. They were not known for reliability. I mean they may not necessarily break down but from leaks to burning oil, it's was a challenge to keep the crank case full. It is not uncommon for a manufacture to stuff up a component selection resulting in something like "soft rings".

[@philgray1023]

Interesting what you have to say about machine tools. I just replaced the timing belt on my 2002 Perkins Diesel. I checked the sizing on the new eastern European parts and found the new tensioner pulley was exactly the same as the 2002 pulley and idler pulley was 0.20 mm larger than the old. Some machinists really know their stuff. I think 0.20 mm wear in 3000 hours is acceptable.

[@jamesmedina2062]

Shain Andrews my dude it really depends on the motor and manufacturer. But it's like studying animals. We have to infer from the outside what is going on on the inside. If however you opened up all the engines in comparison you would see quite a lot of variation. Specifically I think some manufacturers of Japanese engines achieved very clean chambers and zero consumption during non-turbo eras from mid 1980's to recent times but with advent of more turbo applications it does bring a little more potential for oil consumption because the pistons can be a bit looser as expected heat is higher. But still many of these engines even in cold use zero.

[@dazaspc]

@@ShainAndrews Piston metallurgy has remained the same since the 70's. High silicone has been the go to for the past 50 years. Piston rings getting shorter? no maybe narrower and yes they have. Have you even see an engine in pieces? Oil has been specified thinner to reduce energy loss and can be done so due to modern production machines and tooling holding better tolerances during the engine`manufacture. The clearances inside the engine are more exact. There are shortcuts you can take with piston rings to reduce friction but it is always a trade off. No magic here, no optimized new design, no radical new material. The modern engine design has traded friction for leakage. Their shortcomings in this area are covered by the catalytic converter as burns the smoke before it can exit the exhaust pipe. Car makers have been allowing questionable oil consumption get worse and worse due to A~ the lack of smoke out of the tailpipe and B~ Costs money to fix Changing the oil causes consumption of oil by burning in the engine is that what you are saying? Im not going to bother to fully explain to you how piston rings work or how bore finish changes the oil load but to say low tension rings leave oil behind when worn, incorrectly sized or just plain broken. Anything left behind gets burnt and/or pushed out of the exhaust. If you need clarification korihandbook.tenneco.com/en/index.htm My so called theory was just the first example I saw. Any old fart would remember and recognize this if they had any interest at all in automotive back then. Today same shit different day except we are now required to use catalytic converters to meet current emission standards. As for soft rings in those early Mazdas its a fact not a theory. Nissan also suffered from this but nowhere near the same extent. There is no excuse for any engine to use more than 1/4 liter between changes and even then this means that the ring seal is failing.

[@danthewookiechewy9555]

This has got to be one of the best ones ive seen i had no idea about this thanks john.

[@sugarnads]

I had a skoda fabia rs with the 1.4 tsi twincharged engine from the polo gti. It used a litre per thousand kms. Was in the handbook. Keep a litre in the boot. No worries.

[@alinmarta727]

Yea, i heard that as well. One of the worst VW engines ever made

[@Travelingman-1980]

Johnny you are so clean these days!

[@andretigiovaneti7587]

Lots of car lose oil through the PCV valve and it goes Into the air Intake .

[@MrOnemanop]

Where I live (South western Ontario) in the '70s if you had a fifteen year old car, you were just happy it was still on the road.

[@charlesdale5965]

My Volvo D5 engine's oil level is designed to increase!!! due to unburnt diesel used during DPF regeneration. There is a sticker under the bonnet telling you not to fill oil to MAX. Progress 😄

[@rhkips]

I once built an engine for a customer years ago, had the shortblock assembly all put together and was awaiting further instructions from the customer. He contacts me and says he wants to pay the labor for me to swap to low-tension rings. I basically had to have this exact discussion with him. What really amazed me was just how much of a difference those low-tension rings made. The two-finger test after reassembly was a night and day difference; you could really feel a significant change in rotating resistance. I wish I had the foresight to have put a force gauge on the crank before and after.

[@jamesmedina2062]

rhkips about how much less? more than 1/2?

[@David_Johnson_]

I worked on the service counter of a Holden dealership in Perth at the time VT commodore was released. We had some customers with the SS versions who were complaining about oil consumption, so there was a strict testing regime. They paid for an oil and filter change, it was set carefully exactly on the full line, and they brought it back to us every 1000 kilometres to have it checked and if necessary, adjusted, and the results noted on dedicated paperwork. Holden's attitude at the time was anything more than two litres consumed within 5000 kilometres was something they would look at. That meant stripping that engine and throwing a whole bunch of new parts at it. In around turn of the century pricing, I seem to recall that was worth around $8000 to $10000 for the dealership in warranty work. It invariably took weeks at the very least, Holden wouldn't supply replacement cars so it was the dealer's discretion whether to leave the customer without transport. It wasn't fun having to have the conversation with a customer that his brand new SS commodore at around $55,000 using just under two litres of oil in the 5000 kilometre test was considered "normal" especially when some customers had owned a string of Holden V8 engined cars with nothing like the issue. It really came about with the Gen III alloy V8 At one stage we had 5 cars pulled apart in our workshop, all waiting for parts which had to be sourced from the USA. Had to direct new enquiries about the issue to other dealerships, even a couple of very regular customers who we just couldn't help right at the time.

[@Pete856]

I guess different engines do different things. I've got a modern (2019) Kia with a 1.6 GDI, and it really doesn't use any oil at all....but it does dirty the oil way more than my previous Toyota with a 1.8L engine, it could do 15,000 Km and you never knew it by oil colour or consumption.

[@lukeleon8785]

I think the recommended interval for the kia turbo engines is 7500km? Even if it's not it would be a great idea to service every 7500km as they do seem develop dirty engine oil rather quickly

[@travisp11]

Our 2013 Honda Insight started burning oil around 60,000 miles on the ODO. What sucked was that Honda wouldnt fix it unless it burned 1qt every 1k miles. According to Honda with every oil burning test that we had to do to it, it was just below a quart every time they checked it at 1k miles. Funny how they allow an ultra low emmissions car like our Insight to burn oil and push white smoke out the tailpipe on a daily basis.

[@TonyGrant.]

That's interesting. A bit of a risk for the casual observer. You have some nice tools in the background there. I'd love to see a workshop tour some time.

[@Motumatai3]

Engine oil consumption was actually stated in the Owners manual of my 1973 BMW 2800: 1600-2000km/L

[@missingnola3823]

This is helpful, thanks! I, too, own an Optima (2016, 2.4L - great car) and it burns a little oil; a bit less than a quart ('Murica) between changes. I've heard this is normal these days, but understanding the why and how takes the edge off.

[@Andre-hi9xn]

It would be interesting to hear the opinion of South Africa's carmaker, the intercooler bloke on the Toyota Land cruiser 79...

[@antone5462]

Nope , why?

[@Andre-hi9xn]

@@antone5462 is an expert...A genius!!!!

[@ardyaprilianta9732]

Thanks for your video!! I just bought mazda cx9 2021 and was shocked that the oil was on the pointy end of the stick after 5 months (5,000km). Searched the internet and found out mazda change the stem valve seal (2021-onwards) that causing the engine to burn oil. The car itself was a demo and mainly used for running errands short trips. That makes more sense if the oil consumption was bad due to short distances usage.

[@denislostinlondon199]

Two Honda CRV 2.0 (automatic) 4 cylinder, non-turbo, petrol cars have not required the oil to be topped up between dealer services. Each car was driven from new to 45k miles in 3 to 3.5 years. The lowest oil level was half way between the full and top-up marks. It uses 0W-30 oil.

[@OriginalBrett610]

That was such a detailed and easy to understand explanation for everyone to *hopefully* understand!

[@johndavies8608]

Hi John.. Love the new format and these informal briefings. Can you please do one on how engines can (and do) shut off cylinders during cruise? I'd love to know how it's done. Keep up the great work mate. I admire the way your brain works..

[@AutoExpertJC]

They just stop operating the valves. In a pushrod engine a solenoid cuts off oil to the lifters, causing them to collapse and thus no longer lifting the valves. In an overhead cam engine a solenoid de-couples the rocker arm following the cam from the rocker arm pushing the valve. It's all computer-controlled.

[@edwardt1941]

@@AutoExpertJC Interesting. I have a friend who has a Commodore VE SS V8 and as well as operating on four cylinders when cruising it also constantly changes which cylinders it does it on. Something about creating even wear.

[@dylanporras2655]

I've wondered when in the engine cycle do the valves close? Is there a vacuum in the cylinders as the pistons drop or do the valves stop operating during a compression stroke and cause pressure in the cylinders? I ask because my 2014 Chevy Silverado burns about a quart/1000 miles and I've heard it's from the active fuel management. Cooler pistons/cylinders increasing the gaps and a vacuum drawing oil?

[@mrozboss]

I've got a ba GT always serviced it at 5k or 6 months using the ford oil and it never uses any and no leaks after 15 years and the same goes for my 69 pacer good oil keeps seals tight and as a car guy I've seen plenty use some oil between services a litre is normal in modern cars as the heat is used for max fuel economy from what I can tell PS love the channel

[@David-lr2vi]

I know the engineers do this but Im still not a fan of them doing it. To my mind the car should be able to make it between services without being topped up at all. Let’s be honest here and recognise that the majority of people won’t check their car in any way at all between services. This is just the modern age we live in because we’ve gotten used to cars being ultra reliable with electronics and fuel injection etc. Making cars require oil top ups between services is a step backwards. Edit: I think if the car makers want to increase oil burn then they should acknowledge it and quantify it for each model car. At least that way owners know where they stand and know there’s no major problem as it’s expected. Another useful concept would be for them to have an oil top up warning come up on the dash between service intervals to tell you to check and top up the oil.

[@AutoExpertJC]

They do acknowledge it. It's in every handbook, which usually says: Check oil fortnightly or every two weeks, and add 'X' amount if the level hits the 'add' mark. How much clearer do you want it?

[@David-lr2vi]

Auto Expert John Cadogan. I’m talking about how much oil the car is expected to use per 100kms. I sometimes think they are deliberately vague about the actual consumption figures so they can claim all consumption is “normal” for warranty purposes.

[@lukeleon8785]

Older cars used to consume oil and people never seemed to have a problem topping it up and they were nowhere near as complex

[@DavidStiller-kv6ii]

Good vid and nice shirt John.

[@karlso7314]

This was great. I love learning about stuff. Good job John.

[@KzLollapalooza]

Another great video, thank you John! Your content are ever better!

[@rogerpearson9081]

Fair point John. Manufacturers use low tension rings to reduce friction and they also use lighter oils too.The type of driving Michael does is not specified and that may make a difference too especially if there is a lot of short running / cold starts and even how it was driven in the early part of its life. I have generally found with all my cars and a lot of trucks I have driven that when the oil starts getting low it is due for an oil change anyway maybe due to age thickening or dilution which increases the oil consumption because the scrapers have a harder time. I would suggest trying a different brand of oil and see if that changes things. It doesn't have to be Mobil 1 but just try something different and see how you go. My old VS has 280k on it and I usually get from one change to the next with only a small top up a couple of thousand before it is due. Lately I started using 15w 50 which it seems to love as it is nice and quiet when cold but still holds up on a summer day.

[@rmwarriors16]

I wanted to add my observation. I have a 2013 Hyundai Elantra with the 1.8L NU engine. It burned about 1/2 quart of oil but only because I forgot about the oil change as I rarely drive the car. The Elantra has not had a an oil change in almost two years and I barely drove 4K USA miles. I use only 100% oil and Hyundai filter. I learned my lesson and I keep better track of my oil changes now. The owner’s manual states to change the oil every 3,500 miles.

[@bomberaustychunksbruv4119]

My Pajero v6 petrol uses 1 litre per 1000km. Its travelled 340,000kms, it uses 5 litres between services (I change the oil every 5000kms). Its like having a 2 stroke car !. It runs mint and so I just keep filling her up. I think the Cat Converter packed up and left in disgust a long time ago. Its adjusting is internal friction as it ages , amazing really.

[@mathewdavies6472]

I have a. 2015 citreon ds3 and it uses about half liter of oil every 4-5 months, it's a BMW engine I believe, 1.2 puretech with about 96k on the clock. I've heard it's normal for these engines and as the mileage goes up the carbon builds and that does something to something and oil gets burned up somewhere and so it uses more oil. For myself I'm using seafoam at the moment as it claims to liquify hard oil deposits, might try liquimoly soon to keep the oil passages clear

[@steves5172]

Hi JOHN, As a retired engineer I do an oil dilution test on my lube oil every 5-6k Miles I find this a better way to know when to change the oil. PS I run a 2 litre turbo charged euro 4 diesel.

[@denislostinlondon199]

Please post a KZbin video of you doing the oil dilution test. Then we can judge if it is better than doing oil servicing by the book.

[@RaimarLunardi]

I had a 2004 car that the manual said 500ml every 1000km was normal... but it hardly consumed 500ml at 10k I have now a 2010 Honda Civic, doesn't seem to consume much on the 7.5-10k I always change the oil...

[@nigelprentice2084]

John, There are a few comments to this article about oil and catalytic converters. Might be an idea for a future article about how engine oil formulations have changed since Mobiloil's Summer, Winter, Artic grades, and the standards of SAE and API recommendations. Discuss additives and how they have changed to cope with catalytic conversters. Also why a modern car oil can't be used in a wet clutch motorcycle. Suggest you stay away from the virgin versus synthetic debate - leave that to the Ming Moles to elaborate on! Thanks for all these YT videos.

[@melvinwvielman9346]

Amazing technical overview and a great advise. Shall frequent check be required when you have an oil sensor that advises when oil level is low? Is it too risky to rely on the sensor to monitor it for you? By the way, I enjoy your channel and a fan of your humor.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Thanks Melvin - do what the owner's manual says. Personally I think a physical check every two weeks could not possibly hurt.

[@jamesmedina2062]

Melvin Vielman frequency of checks can depend on vehicle model and age. After you learn expected behavior, you can predict behavior. But if PCV system is compromised your crankcase pressure can cause much more consumption and consume oil fast also via gaskets when you least expect it. So just get to know your car and as John says check weekly or bi-weekly to hedge your bets.

[@richardagent1924]

My first car was a 10 year old 1960 Ford 100E. The owners manual gave details of how to regrind the valves and other similar engine work. And if I took it on a run it would do 27 MPG and 45MPS (miles per sump)

[@mael-strom9707]

Engineers with the collaboration of bean counters have figured out with just the precise amount of oil consumption the catalytic converter will rapidly foul-up leading to early engine failure, thus more vehicle sales turn around for the manufacturer. 😁🤣😋

[@chrissimmons9969]

My 2016 Kia Soul was using 2 quarts every 4000 miles or so. After expressing concerns the stealership insisted this was “normal”. Guess what? Catastrophic low end engine failure at 72,000 miles. Luckily it fell within their power train warranty. They put a reman engine in the vehicle and I traded it away within a week. I’m driving a 2019 Honda Accord and couldn’t be happier. (Doesn’t use a drop of oil in a 5000 mile oil interval)

[@batmanlives6456]

Best thing you could have done!

[@CathodeRayNipplez]

Thanks John, excellent explanation. Case in point is my R56 Mini, designed to use oil and a pity it's not common knowledge. Put the wrong oil in it and it smokes like a chimney!

[@greengrubwoodentoysaustral8452]

Good video explanation. Keep up the great work John. Now we're going over to the dark side with a BEV I won't miss the checking the oil routine.

[@manitoublack]

My Saab 9-5 turbo burns the same amount, no smoke, no drips. about 1L every 7,000kms or so. that's from full to low on the dip stick. Since their known for sludging. That's when I do my oil change. especially on turbo cars oil changes every 5-7,500kms is always a good idea. keep that oil clean to prevent turbo issues. Also after the change at 7000kms, I can hear a change in engine tone, runs more smoothly.

[@sourcetext]

One half qt per 7,500miles .if you more then that amount use 10w30 or 10w40 high milage ( conventional oil ) or straight 30 grade 40 grade in hot climates ( over 60 F.) .

[@sahhull]

My Vauxhall van leaks oil out the bottom a bit, nothing drastic but manages to top itself up by diluting the engine oil with diesel from a leaky injector to the point where I have to drain some out every so often and I drop in some STP oil thickener. To fix it... Its one of those repairs that will cost more than the vehicle is worth. For a diesel engine its very clean, when I lift the valve cover. Its spotless, probably due to the cleaning effect of the diesel. For a cheap vehicle that I was only going to run for a year or 2...Ive owned the vehicle 11 years now. It just keeps going and passing its safety inspection every year, its also being probably the most reliable vehicle Ive ever owned.

[@Tigerfan50]

Yeah, my Audi A4 used at least 2 quarts between oil changes.

[@hawkermustang]

Good video

[@Eric_the_Hiking]

Doesn't that kind of oil consumption poison the catalyst?

[@jamesmedina2062]

Eric the Hiking I think it depends on the amount of loss and if the amount of oil creates massive carbonization of the piston tops and chambers. If you get lots of carbon the heat goes through the roof and NOX does too. At this point the computer can throw extra gasoline into the chambers and that can cause very bad problems. Some oil is ok, too much oil will foul plugs. Rich fuel mix can be very bad either via raw fuel or loads of carbon and carbon fouling of plugs and cats. Ideally you want a lightly oiled cylinder wall and dry piston top and chamber with only some gasoline residue in the chambers. Extra fuel and oil is NO GOOD.

[@jamesmedina2062]

Eric the Hiking Just for funs you should experiment with a very good engine oil in your kitchen. Find two flat butter knives that are polished stainless and put a drop of oil in between the flat sides of both and rub. Then wipe the oil on one side and repeat. Again and again. You will find that even with a very minute amount of oil, you can still reduce friction to negligible. So pistons with three rings and a tight seal along with a perfectly honed bore are pretty amazing bits of engineering

[@buffuniballer]

Maybe at 1L / 750km but 1L over 7500km, probably not so much. My 2003 Mazda Protege (have no idea what it was called in Austrailia) used a quart every 1500-2000 miles, but was over 200k miles on the clock. Original catalyst still working and still within spec as far as OBD2 was concerned. Granted, some of it was leaked out, but still. I imagine you have to get to needing a quart/liter every tank of fuel before you are looking at poisoning the catalyst.

[@wilson2455]

my Focus 2.0 GDI engine (2012) uses 500ml of fully synthetic oil between services. I can live with that..

[@bluckyd4868]

John, i accept your analysis and it makes sense. I would like to know the oil consumption of every other similarly engined KIA as a benchmark though.

[@868686mauro]

That shirt is amazing.

[@F.Krueger-cs4vk]

Friend bought new vw passat. Oil light came on before 15 k service was due. Rang dealer said it's normal, pop on for a free oil top. She wasn't impressed.

[@aceroadholder2185]

Back in the day, 60/70 odd years ago, the engineers at Buick developed a formula to estimate an engine's normal oil consumption. It was based on the bore, stroke, number of cylinders, engine rotations per mile. For a 250/300 cubic inch engine that was usually about a US quart of oil every 1500/2000 miles. The theory was that an engine that didn't consume enough oil was bad news because the oil rings were scraping too much oil off the cylinder bores and the compression rings were wearing the bores out. The engineering for that has changed over the years. However if you complain about oil consumption to an auto or motorcycle manufacturer you are in for a big surprise when they tell you what they consider to be excessive. One example I know of is Suzuki explaining that 1 liter of oil per 1000km wasn't excessive on a one liter displacement four cylinder motorcycle. Cheers from NC/USA

[@FireEye-zd4fm]

Mk1 Ford Focus: 0.2l/1000km. Probably due to old valve shaft seals. Fuel consumption is less than 6l/100km.

[@junwong7959]

Shell helix ultra is more resistant to oil burn off based on my personal experience.

[@vsboy2577]

People are not paying big money for new cars to have to open the bonnet every two weeks to check for oil. It’s unacceptable.

[@sugarnads]

Oh grow up.

[@raybourne5781]

vsboy 25 ... I agree

[@morgandrives]

If people are unwilling to check the oil level every two weeks or so, they should not be driving a car. Everything in the universe - including a car - is undergoing a gradual decline into disorder (entropy); the things we love need attention so that they last longer. I'll check my oil every two weeks and extend my car's life.

[@stefanlake4154]

You expect the 80 year old grandma to check the oil every 2 weeks? Fact is 95% + of car owners don’t check under the bonnet, and rely on good manufacturing to design a car that doesn’t leak oil and only requires servicing every 10,000km. You pay for a product, you expect it to work as per the design. We are not living in the 1960s

[@philgray1023]

@@stefanlake4154 Well my daughter doesn't. You've probably seen her around. Easily identified by the cloud of blue smoke that she disinfects the street with every time she starts her car. Coming to some lungs near you soon.

[@patsaun2388]

A few current motorcycle user manuals state that riding the bike at high rpms for extended periods of time cause oil consumption to increase, riding at high speeds, in hot climates and in wet or dusty conditions service twice as often

[@wuerzelburg]

I had a Hyundai Accent 2001. No oil consumption. I have a Subaru Impreza 2007. It uses about 300-500ml of oil every 7500km. When I found out, I checked the oil every other day. After a year and a half of monitoring and two oil changes I found out its not increasing, thank god. So I learned to live with it.

[@thehairygolfer]

I had an old Datsun, it burnt so much oil it was practically a diesel.

[@mahcooharper9577]

I do get the balancing act being undertaken but aren't the engines essentially being built "worn"? Certainly the experience of VAG customers whose cars always use oil suggests maybe they won't last as long? Genuine question, if I'm missing something I'm always happy to learn. I have a Falcon with 450000 on it and oil consumption is negligible and our i30N uses nothing between services which is just fine by me.

[@Driving_Somewhere]

Exciting new rebuild coming to a space near you. . . haha. . . love your channel. . .

[@philhealey449]

'Stralia hopefully never had too many Austin 1100s or Allegros with 60 miles per pint of oil antics. Days of blue haze fumes motoring...... Some good points on why we might want to check our oil in today's cars having been lulled into apathy in the post Allegro era. On my action list! Thanks John.

[@confuzsays7196]

My 2002 Isuzu Jackaroo/Trooper/BigHorn(Yessss))/Montery used similar amounts of oil and still does at 240000km. The manual says this is ok as do forums etc. It used to be quite noticable exhaust smoke but gradually the smoke has dissappeared but still uses oil.

[@AutoExpertJC]

If it rapidly increases, there's a prob. Otherwise, all good.

[@mikepayne5277]

I have always thought that any needed adding of oil between oil changes was excessive. But, that was when I did oil maintenance at 3500 to 4000 miles, and I always filled (to the manufactures specs) to the top mark. But now with 10k to 12k intervals, which are totally crazy, I can understand the need to add oil.

[@jamesbarisitz4794]

I'm interested in why you would change fully synthetic at 7,500k? Forget saving at the pump with that lubrication largess. Really like the new set and environment. More relaxed and hanging around the shop.😃

[@craigarnold5631]

Beautifully logical explanation

[@AutoExpertJC]

Thanks Craig.

[@DashCamSerbia]

Yes, but what about pollution from burning oil?

[@bradgibson9581]

My car has done 63k and not used a drop of oil. I do drive a Tesla though.

[@ianwilliams487]

G'Day John,,,I One remembers my grand father adding 2 shots of redex to his tank very fill,, Redex was a brand name for Castor oil,,or similar,, And had me an early 1972/3 Fiat 132,1800 twin cam engine (1958 design motor,)that was designed to burn oil,,, the biggest problem with new engines is service,,,Yes service is important to keep the old Gal running,,,Super very important,,not just for mileage but oil gets fucked up with fuel and other stuff not being burnt on long runs,,,best way to kill an engine stop start,,don't think this will ever change,,

[@tonydargon3918]

How many people actually check the oil level regularly? If an engine burns through 2 litres between services many will expire early. Not trying to take the piss, I check oil and fluids regularly but I'm a car guy and I've seen too many people NEVER check anything under the bonnet until it goes pear shaped. Some don't know how to check oil at all. 🇦🇺

[@AutoExpertJC]

I agree with you - it's a basic check that everyone should do.

[@batmanlives6456]

Trouble is we have become used to not checking oil all the time It was different when we all drove model A fords Technology has moved on Car makers have proved no oil consumption is possible Failure here is therefore seen as a vehicle fault

[@chrisl9620]

I will never buy German, on the account of what they done to my grandfather in 1945. They sold him a real shitty VW Beetle.

[@Gilespargiter]

Good explanation. Interesting that you should use the most energy efficient vehicle known to compare to one that uses a fuel which at the point of delivery only has about 10% more energy than it took to get it!

[@michaelrussell6661]

Family a potato delivery business to chicken&chip shops, the business ute a white Ford XB 4.1 litre had done almost 300,000km's and it was buggered, it was burning a gallon of oil every 300km and that motor was replaced with a rebuilt engine on a friday. The rebuilt engine was run in by 1am that same night with 1,200km extra on the odometer ;) We did another190,000km in it before it was sold.

[@paulrakis]

Great video John. I have a 2013 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T and i love it. As you know they have that lawsuit for engine failure which im sure you know. I havent had any issues with burning oil or anything eles thankfully i got a good one. Iv been using synthetic oil since 79k now i have 112000 miles and motor runs like new. Also you have to do the CRC valve cleaning every 10k since its a GDI.

[@deanstyles2567]

Now if oil consumption of 1L every 7500km is now considered 'normal', then why aren't oil sumps larger to accommodate not having to top it up in between services? If a car's oil capacity is 5L, would it have to be kept in a narrow 4.5-5L range, or would it run with 3L or so in it? Whilst oil consumption may be normal in the pursuit of fuel efficiency, surely it would need to be designed so that normal consumers don't need to add any more oil in between scheduled services.

[@MattyFielding6]

They are. Oil capicity of small japanese cars in the late 90s early 2000's was 3-4 litres. A compareable modern car is 4.5-5.5 litres. The oil pickup is quite low in the sump. 1.5/2 litres would be my guess as to when you would start sucking air instead oil

[@martintaper7997]

I've never had to top up oil between oil changes in 40 years of driving and about two dozen cars, and my changes are done at 20000km (after the warranty based new car service gouging intervals have passed). The thing with oil consumption in new engines (often by virtue of their new technologies such as direct injection) is that the oil goes somewhere, often doing a great job gunking up the innards of the engine, and which in the long run will cost you if you keep the car a long time, and it will eventually outweigh the economy savings that the new technology was supposed to offer.

[@vwvan]

The Ming Molls are experts on oil consumption and lubrication. You should have had a spot with several of them explaining it.

[@AutoExpertJC]

I did - but thought it best not to film that segment.

[@itsthemetho]

The irony is that modern engines often burn oil, but consumers are not encouraged to check your engine. Just look at many cars with plastic covers on the engines hiding them.

[@77gravity]

My initial reaction to "needing a litre of oil every 7500km" was "Your car servicer is ripping you off". After watching John's video and thinking about my own vehicles (2007, 2012 and 2017 and their LACK of oil consumption) my reaction has changed to "You're probably being ripped off". With all due respect to John, of course.

[@joesmith201212]

I have a Hyundai with a GDI engine and it gets great gas mileage, but yes since day one it's always burnt off a little bit of oil I'd say about half a quart every 3000 miles, and now it is slightly worse and it seems to be worse during the summer so I don't know how normal, all the research I've done says it a small high pressure high temp high compression engine so the burn off is expected

[@AutoExpertJC]

It sounds fine to me. It's only bad, generally, if it gets worse over time.

[@index6738]

Fark me...oil is used to lubricate cylinder bores, piston oil ring dispense oil to achieve this. Oil on cylinder walls get burnt during combustion. Oil vapour from sump is recirculated back into combustion. Both designs use oil regardless of how tight or new engine is. Some engines use more or less depending on tolerances, tension and how vehicle is driven. Excessive oil loss by combustion is indicative of a stuffed engine.

[@ashark9898]

What surprises me is the gdi engine wasn't burning oil.

[@bigtasty1082]

My b8.5 a4 2.0t used 1L per 1ks from day one got a new engine at 4km and got upgraded to the higher output engine and has not used a drop since and its over 110km

[@rayg9069]

If you're burning 5W20, us 10W40 in Australia. Most of the high rate oil burners are designed to operate economically in cold climates, not sucking in 40 C air while burning lumps of Sulpher

[@AutoExpertJC]

It is hell here, literally, in summer.

[@lesliedsouza4077]

@@AutoExpertJC Owner's manual specifies different vis grades for diff climates? Is there much difference in sulphur content, between US & Aus fuels?

[@rayg9069]

@@lesliedsouza4077 Yes they do, but nobody ever bothers to read the manual. There is the 'recommended' grade' for maximum fuel economy which is the lightest oil the engine can use to make it through warranty period without failing. Then on the same page usually there will be a list of 'Approved grades' along with a climatic chart, showing which grade is suitable for what temperature range. But no one ever reads that. I don't know if our fuel is really that bad now compared to other countries but it used to be the standing joke when you took a car back for rough running or performance issues, "it's the rubbish fuel we have in Australia."

[@lesliedsouza4077]

@@rayg9069 Dat da one - 'Cept for late model 0W-20 engines. Only That's allowed? Out of warranty - Game Over? The Manufacturer would say - You wanted low CO2 & Good fuel economy? You got it :) Aus ulp, current std for sulphur content is 150ppm, for 91 & 50ppm for 95 & 98 (Diesel 10 ppm) Euro ulp, 10 ppm; US ulp, 10 ppm - But, they use terms like "average" & "refinery gate" in defining the std :) 100 ppm would be 0.01 % ?

[@karstgeo7290]

Great one my Aussie dude.

[@richardrussell500]

Excellent!

[@AutoExpertJC]

Dr Evil comment of the year! Yesssssss!

[@johndouglass3010]

Great mech eng explanation. Thank you

[@johnnyboy1586]

Used to have an old Nissan that burnt just enough oil that I never had to change oil. Just continually top up 👍

[@georgemaritz659]

Very well explained.

[@davelloyd-]

Great explanation....but now I want to know roughly *how much* better fuel economy and is it really better on the hip pocket. Back of a envelope; Kia 2017 is roughly 8.3l/100km according to www.carsguide.com.au/kia/optima/price/2017/si?id=3EzQOBDM So for 7500km, that's about 622.5 litres of fuel - at $1.30 is $809. 1 litre oil is $17.99 www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/penrite-penrite-small-engine-4-stroke-engine-oil-10w-30-1-litre/346381.html or ~13.8 litres of fuel. Add that to 622 to get 636 and divide by 75 (7500/100) to get a new economy figure of 8.48. Which is roughly 2% worse. So is a 2% saving realistic?

[@jamescaley9942]

Yes, if manufacturer say it is "normal" it should be factored into claimed fuel consumption figures. I expect it would still be small, though.

[@tomnewham1269]

The main reason car manufacturers are reducing fuel consumption is to minimise emissions. As governments legislate tougher emission regulations, the easiest way to conform is to reduce the fuel consumption. So if that means the car owner has to pay more for service costs, then obviously car manufacturers will go down that path.

[@KnightXV]

Need the old format back. And nuts. And Rants.