How Much Faster is a PRO Compared to A Class Riders? Pro vs Open A vs 40+ A Lap Time Battle

Ever wondered just how much faster a pro is than a fast amateur? Watch the video to find out!
Bikes in order
Carter Steers Pro 2024 crf250r
Mitch Forrest Open A 2023.5 ktm 350 xcf factory edition
Nick Terry 40+ A 2023 ktm 300 xc
Follow me on instagram: @mitchforrest
Shot on GoPro hero 10 black
2023 sponsors Moto One KTM, GoPro, Leatt, Regulus Performance, Ares Manufacturing.
My rides: 2023 KTM 350 XCF and a 2023 KTM 250 XC, twin air filters, Dunlop MX34 tires, platinum nitro mousses, motorex lubricants, PMB ankle Savers foot pegs, pro taper bars, ODI Grips, Precision Racing Parabolic Steering Stabilizer, FMF Titanium 4.1 Silencer, IMS 2.8 gallon Tank, Ares Disc Guard, bulletproof designs chain guide guard, SXS slide plate

[@8180634]

As a 40+ rider myself (very nearly 50+), I believe the word "spirited" describes the pace I like to keep these days. Younger me preferred not to hit the ground, but older me really really does not want to hit the ground! It's amazing what age does to our risk/reward balance.

[@TheMitchForrest]

100%

[@PA-Tammy]

@60 and female "Old lady bones" I just stopped hitting the ground like I got on my bike one day and said today is the last day for that and it was LOL

[@abpob6052]

For those who want to go faster, try this. Shift your bike up to a gear that is difficult to pull. Use 4th gear on 2nd gear trails. Then concentrate on keeping the bike from stalling and riding in a way that keeps it in the power. You will find you have to ride much smoother, choose very different lines, and you will go much faster without any real difference in effort. Side benefit...your suspension will feel much more compliant.

[@gbtrails588]

thats true. but they had a lot of sand. sometimes not even shifting. using clutch and ride position. might need to shift down too to go faster.

[@abpob6052]

The answer is they all have basically the same speed. The difference is the desire and willingness to go full out and for how long. I'm 58 and can easily run with 30+A, but I don't want to. The risk of crashing, breaking something on my body, and months of recovery just isn't worth it. So I ride in the B or C class and put on occasional bursts of speed where I think it is safe. Otherwise I cruise at just under whatever speed keeps me on 2 wheels and out of the trees on that particular day.

[@goinhot9133]

Eh, corners is where we lose our time to the pros. It’s a little easier to go fast in a straight line.

[@scottbrown8142]

Back in the day, all out buddies would start at a trail point would send the C guy out wait 2 min then B guy take off and so on. I remember one time taking off and our fast guy was last to leave. He caught me and I was yelling you cheated leaving early until a minute later I was all by myself again haha

[@TheMitchForrest]

100%. We did that a few times. Fun to see how long you can hold each other off

[@bighaasfly]

Ain’t that the truth! Feels like they’re cheating then they just ride away while you’re doing your darndest! 😂

[@scottbrown8142]

@@bighaasfly haha yep.

[@RideWithJosh696]

So just rode this today. Saw the lines you all made. C class vet- 8:30 with one crash my first lap ever on it lol. Pretty good short track, great sand work.

[@TheMitchForrest]

Super fun track with a bunch of variety, definitely technical. Thanks for the input!

[@RideWithJosh696]

@@TheMitchForrest no problemo I’ve rode that area a few times just never this track,I’m so slow lol.

[@CurtisBrandt]

Pretty eye opening stuff - not critiquing the less fast riders in the video but rather comparing how I feel like I would approach that terrain versus the pro. Fairly shocking difference and very cool to see first-person view. It's amazing to see how it can be done. Thanks.

[@TheMitchForrest]

So much more momentum carried everywhere, that’s the difference. More corner speed, and trust in himself and the bike.

[@CurtisBrandt]

@@TheMitchForrest Totally. The commitment level in the sandy corners is really something, and you can see how it helps maintain momentum.

[@tankeater]

I'm a 100% Disabled Combat Infantry Veteran and I still ride (I'm a stubborn SOB). I'm 36 years old and never raced, but have rode Glamis, Ocotillo, and a lot of SoCal hills since the age of 5... Is it bad that Mitch is a little slow for me at points and Carter hits some corners like I would strive for on a pinITtoWINit lap??? LMFFFAAAOOO 🤷‍♂️ I weigh 180 and run an 8.8-10.3 compressive spring (rated for 200-230) on my 500 EXC. A new friend was shocked to hear iI run such a stiff spring. The look on his face was EPIC 😂🤘

[@Krawl913]

You guys are all ripping. I’m surprised how that 300 struggled so hard bottom to mid in the sand. Those 4 strokes just do really have advantage for us old guys.

[@TheMitchForrest]

Thanks! He’s been playing with gearing and gear selection a bit to try to make it run how he likes.

[@riders.oregon4474]

The pro looked like he rides really loose. Amazing how a little more momentum through the turns starts to add up after a while. Inspiring.

[@TheMitchForrest]

100%. .25 or .5 seconds faster per corner sure adds up.

[@lukereilly4963]

I was thinking the exact same thing. watching the first 15 seconds of the second guy's lap made it clear where all of the speed is. The pro doesn't even loose speed in the corners. amazing.

[@lukereilly4963]

greatly appreciated. I think you should do b class and c class rider comparisoins too. Personally I am just not graduating from c class and competing in a and b class. I would be going about as fast as your vet rider in this video from the looks of it.

[@KristofSX]

good vid, I'm a 40+ A rider and to Pro riders i'm loosing about 7-10s per minute of riding depends on the track, so, looks like it's accurate all over the world ;)

[@TheMitchForrest]

100%

[@bcamcam2]

As a fast c rider this is how fast I feel when racing, then I watch the video back and realize just how slow I am...lol... Especially one race with the NHHA pros when they came flying through the back of the field and making lines out of nothing to get around the slower riders..

[@TheMitchForrest]

I feel you. Their lines and speed are amazing

[@Tumid1]

I'd be interested in how many days each rider has on this course....is it one your's "home" track... was it the first day there for anyone? Familiarity can make a huge difference in addition to knowing what's coming up, terrain, suspension set-up, pacing & many other variables.

[@TheMitchForrest]

First time for Carter (pro) and myself rider 2. Nick, rider 3 has ridden it a couple times. We all had rode 90 min+ on the track before filming the lap times. Hope this helps 👌🏻

[@user-qe5qs5vq9c]

Just an observation pro rider seems to be using front brake and open A rider seems to be using his rear brake which reduces momentum in the turns.

[@tjjohnson4185]

I don't really care so much about the times, what stands out to me is how good some people are at finding traction in the loose stuff and how much that translates into an easier overall ride. My hats off to you all, great vid!

[@TheMitchForrest]

Thanks man!!

[@GRAZINGARIZONA]

Fun to watch video, thanks for posting it. The fast guy just carried way more speed everywhere but especially in the higher speed stuff when the sketch factor went up. Good stuff man.

[@TheMitchForrest]

👊🏻👊🏻

[@timstewart9017]

Carter is looking great on the Honda. Love the comparison video. The soil looked great!

[@TheMitchForrest]

Carter is smooth on it. It was a perfect race simulation track. A little of everything.

[@roostafish961]

I’m surprised at how much the pro rider was seated. Simply awesome how he erases the sand sections.

[@rowantrefz8906]

Cool loop you got there!

[@fcanderson4883]

Good idea for a video and since it was filmed in cold riding conditions you all should have set your rebound-readjusted from probably warmer conditions Nick yes two-stroke versus four-stroke but better line Choice and then also stirring the gearbox a little bit more but most importantly he needs to adjust his suspension or get a new shock and he will do a lot better he was hesitant in specially the downhill sections thru the bumps and the ( harse V's, washout, ditches, transitions), which you could tell affected his line Choice and then of course Carter from his shadow he was standing up a lot more than you and Nick but of course the Shadows weren't there later in the day, when you took your laps. So Overall good video it can be a good training tool for other Riders to how important and beneficial proper suspension setup is in cold weather vs. hot weather conditions also hard-packed vs. sandy conditions the right suspension setup is key to become a smoother faster Rider., reduce arm pump and less fatigue,and riding style standing up more vs. sitting down especially in sand sections better. control, smoother, faster - Winner....

[@TheMitchForrest]

Great input

[@bradleyhetherington2145]

I went back a watched it again there is a lot to learn. The pro rider is really fast which equals in excellent riding shape !!

[@TheMitchForrest]

Yeah he’s fit and a smart rider. Rides really efficient and uses the bike well.

[@MoreMoto262]

Pro riders have a certain pro-ness to them.

[@TheMitchForrest]

Very much! Smooth, flowing and confident.

[@Stroopwaffe1]

Technique is the main thing but race IQ and fitness are important, but racing will make you fasterthan someone who just rides around a field, i raced 7 years from 9 to 16, i went to a 5 day kawasaki uk training camp when i was 9 then a couple of years l8r to Heron Suzuki training camps sand track days and hard pack days, Technique was thebasethen fitness and of course actually racing 40 other riders in races, nothing isbetter than racing.

[@bradleyhetherington2145]

Run you times in reverse next time starting with the slowest and build it up from there. You bike suspension was set perfect you pro friend could put down faster laps on your bike if you ask me ! Fun to watch

[@TheMitchForrest]

Thanks for watching man!

[@tomdoe4295]

The information I gleaned from the video relating to the difference in speed between differing skill levels of riders was not as obvious as to who was having the most fun, and that was the third rider because he was on a 2 stroke, and fun is what it's all about, right? :)

[@TheMitchForrest]

Dirt bikes = 😁

[@anonymousanonymous8306]

That 2 stroke really struggled to make traction and drive. Ib ride a 300 in tight woods but I really prefer a 4 stroke on the open loose stuff.

[@TheMitchForrest]

I do as well

[@ShaunSavage-kl9pd]

I've been riding since 1982. Not very good at motocross but off-road I shred. Make a track with trees in it.

[@TheMitchForrest]

So much fun.

[@jonathanwalsh3771]

What frame rate are you filming in? 24fps with horizontal stabilizer?

[@TheMitchForrest]

2.7k 60fps. Regular hypersmooth, no boost or horizon leveling.

[@kjacob836]

Quick lil lap times here lol

[@gbtrails588]

nice video. (the pro on a 450. a class A on a 300 and vet on a 250) Be cool to see want time difference with the vet on the 450 and pro on the 250. threre's a difference between feeling fast and being fast. wondering if the 450 is more efficient in the sand for the vet. or if it applies. Everyone pushed it, thats cool to see. safe crashes are good!

[@gbtrails588]

also have to ride them different and a ton of factors. but would be interesting.

[@tbird475tjk4]

Hard to compare since some intermediate riders are right with the very top pros and first day out of B they are competitive, no true scale to measure by

[@TheMitchForrest]

All 3 of us win our perspective classes 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@freeradical6390]

Long live the CR500! Leatherfoot GPMX

[@westcoastfrisco]

Fun video. You still running MXT Tech stuff?

[@TheMitchForrest]

I still own it, and it’s on my 250xc but it’s in need of full rebuild and new setting from mx tech. Running stock suspension off my 450xcf with the new spring fork, been happy initially, but as I’m building speed again it’s getting too soft quickly.

[@chadbryce4217]

@TheMitchForrest any chance you’d mind sharing where this is? I’m in northern Utah and spend most of my time at Delle/Knolls.

[@TheMitchForrest]

You’re riding the same area then 👊🏻

[@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443]

Looks like I could actually use 5th gear on my CR500 there...

[@michaelh2034]

It depends. Some of the amateur riders are just as fast if not faster (especially on their "home" track) but usually they can't keep it up for as long due to conditioning. Off road/woods is another thing entirely.

[@Foxtrot1967]

Was the 2-Stroke at a disadvantage on the sandy track?

[@TheMitchForrest]

Nick still prefers the 2 stroke. Carter and I prefer the 4 stroke. Not sure that it’s really a plus or minus either way 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ryanclayton6496]

Hi 2nd rider. I'm Aussie. Are you in expert class?.. like one under pro class?

[@TheMitchForrest]

Yessir that’s correct. I’ve won a few expert overalls. And usually beat a few of the slower pros.

[@ryanclayton6496]

@@TheMitchForrest cool mate. Cheers

[@ryanclayton6496]

@@TheMitchForrest We often get fast expert and Clubman riders having very close or matching lap times with the pros here, but that's ONE lap. To do those times consistently for 10,20,30 laps is where the pros really separate themselves here. . Excluding desert racing and supercross of course.

[@TheMitchForrest]

@@ryanclayton6496 I think you are spot on there!

[@panic-revv85]

Cherry Creek. My favorite place in the world.

[@TheMitchForrest]

Close! But not quite. Fun little spot though!

[@billypulsipher1544]

your bike is losing traction out of the corners, you ride very smooth, i think some bike set up would make up the difference, my best guess is your rear shock is too soft.

[@TheMitchForrest]

Thanks for the input! Shock is definitely too soft currently. Actually sprained my ankle in the g out midway through the track.

[@gbtrails588]

not just soft, but could be slow rebound as well or poor sag. If the rear doesn't work with the front forks, that can be an issue for the rear to sink. tuning that rear can be a pain. little things can prevent injury for sure!

[@TheMitchForrest]

@@gbtrails588 sag is dialed. Could need some help with rebound 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@gbtrails588]

@@TheMitchForrest yeah, I'm not too good with suspension. Sometimes, having someone who has a good feel for it can test it out. Maybe have that pro guy ride it and put it in a better direction. Hope the injury heals!

[@TheMitchForrest]

@@gbtrails588 surgery tomorrow! Thanks man.

[@bencampbell6173]

3rd bike sounds weird 😜✊🏻💨

[@TheMitchForrest]

lol

[@damonforrest1570]

My last name is also Forrest nice to meet you.🙏💯🤙🇺🇸

[@TheMitchForrest]

Cheers 🍻

[@rtimetoride7645]

I understand your advice, but fourth gear on a second gear trail. You must be out in a wide open desert, not in the trees cause that ain’t gonna happen.

[@NickW90]

That 250 looks like a slug in the deep sand

[@TheMitchForrest]

He still kicked all our asses 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@NickW90]

For sure buddy. I’m not hating on the honda, i ride one lol

[@TheMitchForrest]

@@NickW90 lol

[@dominocweber9763]

Shiii thats nothin! Jk you guys are fast AF! Cool comparison. Thanks for sharing.

[@TheMitchForrest]

Thanks for watching!

[@shannonscott5788]

IM NOT A PRO. IM NOT DEEGAN OR PASTRANA OR HUNTER FAST. BUT IM FAT AS LIGHTNING ONLY IF I HAD WINGS 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♂️👌🤣👍

[@TheMitchForrest]

lol 😂

[@bradleyhetherington2145]

Are you riding a 350?

[@TheMitchForrest]

Yessir that’s correct. Meant to put all the bikes, will add in the description

[@CP_104]

The "A" rider is pretty slow. There's no way that he is familiar with that track. GoPro videos can be deceiving...

[@gbtrails588]

go pros cant be trusted lol

[@lukereilly4963]

yeah exactly. looks slow on camera. get out there and look at your own videos, that's when it will look super slow. I do not intend to insult. just a lot of video playback shame experience

[@kx250fforlife]

Is A a begginer class? I ride faster than that just cruising though dove springs trails. If A isnt beginner ill shit myself, because this guy doesnt even downshift and just bogs everwhere. Thats not an A level rider

[@carterstears3508]

Then post a video of you riding and we will judge you

[@Dastrup24]

I can confirm first hand that this is accurate for Utah. If you don’t believe me or this video, come see for yourself😉

[@gbtrails588]

true, each series and state and even district have different speeds. just depends on the talent in the area! This applies to all sports. @@Dastrup24