How much horsepower do you gain when adding ignition timing?

[@robertwest3093]

I nearly fell backwards when I saw the 20+ hp just bumping the timing. Excellent work!

[@acanfield87]

Nice! That Pontiac's pushing more HP than my factory setup 5.3L Suburban. Thanks for the videos and I'll stay tuned in.

[@markwells5645]

It has 600cc on it

[@teagreen2220]

Enjoying the vids. I have a 2017 Silverado 6.0 and tuned it. It went from 360 hp to 505 with some bolt on things but stock cam, long block, and intake. The stock ecu limited hp to 360 even at iats of 50 F which is the temp I made 505 at tuned. Torque was 495 at 4000. Amazing what a thorough tuning can get you with LS engines! Truck was a dog, now a blast, soon a turbo.

[@mikeokc8722]

Was virtual torque limiting the output?

[@teagreen2220]

@@mikeokc8722 yes, also the basic tune. All torque management is turned off on the engine now but I left the full amount of torque management on for the upshifts in the 6L90 transmission. The engine runs in open loop only, this is a game changer, making fueling completely user set and really easy to control.

[@mikeokc8722]

@@teagreen2220 I have found when in open loop only, my throttle is limiting to around 60 percent, but gets full throttle with the maf working. Any idea what is limiting on it? The immediate command and actual show about the same. And usually limits throttle when crossing the max torque amount. The peak torque is still higher and the predicted torque is high. I am thinking the predicted being higher than the peak may be limiting it. 2013 L96 6l90

[@teagreen2220]

@@mikeokc8722 I am running mine “MAF only” and always OL but it is still important to have the tune correct for SD on mine because the E78 ECU references those tables for throttle responses even in MAF only configurations. Generally I tune my SD to come on about 5% more fuel than the spot where I initiated a throttle change for accelerating. This works well to basically gas it as I start to floor the pedal so that there is no lean conditions as the MAF catches up with the airflow. The engine torque limits I set higher than can be actually achieved and the torque tables I raised from stock to allow for the transmission to reference a realistic value so that lower load shifts get a firmer holding pressure for less band slippage during shift because the power the engine is producing is greater than stock now even in low driver demand situations. If you raise the torque tables to high then you will see a reduced power due to transmission pulling too much timing during the shift.

[@RAWRMotorsports]

What would you recommend for a 02'escalade with 11:1 Lq9 FBO and btr S3 truck cam 218/224@.050

[@gordonblackley8863]

Thank you for posting this, really clear illustration of the effect of ignition timing.

[@DerekRobinson]

I'm very happy to see someone using a KZbin channel for actual informative purposes. I wish I had the time to do the same. Kudos, Joe.

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

Thanks man. I don’t have the time to do it either or more importantly to do it the way i want to. If it actually grows I’ll spend some more time on it but hard to justify when something gets like 4 views haha

[@ryandeweese363]

Awesome video and really helpful!!

[@cpullig1585]

Love the educational videos. Keep up the good work man!!

[@bensinger5229]

Just found your channel great info

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

Thanks!

[@MrMotorhead632]

Was this 87 or 93 octane? Thanks for your videos as always!

[@jodysmith3662]

How about testing a good 7al ignition box vs say coil on plug setup?

[@biondanishgenomeinstitute8193]

I only got a BMW R100 motorcycle, but its the same thing. Have you measured the engine heat on the pipes with different advances? won't the engine knock or burn the pistons on continuous load with higher-than-factory advance? when I advance my little two-cylinder 70 hp engine to the max it idles much better and gives better mileage, but I am afraid of hurting the engine. So I put it half-way between factory and max which seems to be a good spot. Of course there is no throttle-position advance on these 40 year old engines.

[@motoflyte]

I'm a novice... I would have thought that 0 degrees would have the spark plug firing when the piston is at TDC. Then values would be - or + in relation to zero. Normally engines start with timing something in the teens. My corvair rampside truck is at 13 degrees Oh...I think I get it now.... The value of say 26 is 26 degrees BTDC, correct ? So this is advancing the timing, as I suspected.

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

Correct. If i say 18 degrees for example it would be 18 degrees before tdc

[@justinc9911]

Very nice detailed video. I was wondering if messing around with the timing on a stock high compression engine (10:5:1) could it have any benefits with slight power gains?

[@kensmechanicalaffair]

Probably have to run higher octane.

[@isidrosevier1125]

Do you ever make any changes to the spark values in the normal driving areas of the map? WOT is 24 on my LS3 but I'll see like 40-41 just cruising. Is there any benefits to running so much with a low load?

[@chui19801]

Joe. One of the main problems is that people watch this videos and quickly want to copy the tables or values just because they think their car will run much better and power gains will be instant. Huge mistake. like you said, every application is unique to the car and maybe if both cars are identical, they might get lucky. But, that is not the way to go about business. pay for your own tune and apply that to your needs.

[@dwrgdeh9996]

It is that people's problem

[@ChybbeR]

Would love to see a video with the "MBT" tool mainline have setup etc

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

ChybbeR1 yes i plan to do that. I have not bought any of the can compatibility stuff yet since i don’t really do just one ecu all the time

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

However you wouldn’t use that on sweep style tests like this. That’s for steady state stuff. Still super cool though

[@yujyuj2957]

Precision timing... only with precision load control!!

[@T.JBoydRacing]

For drag racing only 6.0 cam only on methanol what would u around about run the timing at usually?

[@7RON1]

Спасибо за полезное видео.

[@PRZJ91]

Hey joe, was wondering what you use to monitor knock on cars without a knock sensor? Other than looking at the plugs, do you use an aftermarket knock detector?

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

Twisted_717 i have an external knock monitor but it takes a while to set up and calibrate so i rarely get a chance to use it. Only to on stuff that is having an issue or is questionable. (Going to do a video on it soon). But yea ultimately looking at plugs and just experience

[@PRZJ91]

Joe Simpson ah I gotcha! I would really like to get a set of knock ears. Mostly for street tuning.

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

Always a nice insurance policy. In my experience you really need something you can record. Shit happens so fast real time you probably won’t pick up on a lot. Being able to to back and listen/view makes all the difference but then you need to calibrate for each car which takes a ton of time and nobody wants to pay for that time. They would rather have you just “guess” haha

[@PRZJ91]

Joe Simpson facts hahaha I’m currently trying to save up to purchase a hub Dyno. I love the steady state mode. Soooooo convenient!

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

Oh yea for sure. I film e a video showing some of the steady state stuff. Have a feeling it will suck so probably re do it haha

[@timmy622]

I’m really enjoying going through your videos and learning and appreciate you taking the time to make them. Since I don’t have my own dyno, what would/should I look for as far as making timing adjustments? I’m guessing reading the plugs, but any other advice?

[@kensmechanicalaffair]

I imagine with boost those numbers would be bigger, right!?

[@bigfoot355]

Watching

[@charlievega7597]

Is this safe for a daily driver?

[@VALERA_SPAK]

Нужно было в конце сделать замер на 18 градусах. Возможно с каждым замером у тебя прогревалось масло в КПП и двигателе, поэтому меньше потери.

[@tomasnokechtesledger1786]

Yep the engine/tranny fluids got warmer at each pass and gave the most part of the 5% gains ... He should have measured again at standard 18 degrees before TDC at the end. I Agree with you.

[@hackjobgarage9289]

dude, is there a way for someone without access to a dyno to crank up the timing? safely?

[@renesison3593]

Yes timing light and degree wheel. ..

[@robholmes2129]

read the plugs

[@mrsemifixit]

Would the gains be the same if it was 100% stock (intake, exhaust)?

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

Literally every car and combo is different. Some of the v8 cars can be 100+ horsepower

[@mrsemifixit]

@@JoeSimpsonAtTempest If factory timing is 12* +/- 2 and you run it at 14* (technically within spec) should you bump up the grade of fuel anyway if it normally takes regular gas?

[@tomasnokechtesledger1786]

@@mrsemifixit probably not necessary, since there's a large safety margin and the injection system can cope with above limit.

[@tomasnokechtesledger1786]

In a Thick Film module on distributor, the ignition module would fry. I fried 2 before leaning right. Can't advance on these...

[@jplund3149]

4 to 5 hp every 2 degrees it looked like

[@adibz959]

How do you know it safe or not

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

Short answer is experience

[@Andrea_eTi]

Add some breaking load, a 5 seconds run is too short to put the engine under stress and see how everything really react on the street.

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

For a video where I’m intentionally making the engine unhappy, i make the runs quicker to keep it alive 👊

[@TPVPRO]

I'm a cave man, my distributor locked out at 32 on my turd.

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

I’m sure you have told me 100 times but i don’t remember. What fuel do you use in that thing

[@TPVPRO]

@@JoeSimpsonAtTempest 93 but I also have a 4500. I'm sure it would knock 3500 and lower.

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

TPV Productions 93 when your spraying too? Have you sprayed the new motor yet?

[@TPVPRO]

@@JoeSimpsonAtTempest Not yet but it pulls timing on the kit and it's running enrichment 110 on the N2o side.

[@1989rrichard]

Do one with boost

[@kensmechanicalaffair]

That's what I'm talking about.

[@BulliKid]

So less timing low Rpms and higher timing for higher Rpms?

[@default3008]

yes

[@Texassince1836]

Timing is determined by 2 factors. How long does the mix have to burn? (RPM Based) How long will the mix need to burn? (Cylinder pressure and AFR based)

[@renesison3593]

Your increasing rpm but not adjusting the afr boss

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

What?

[@jeffm.8275]

@@JoeSimpsonAtTempest Exactly what I said aloud when I read that lol.

[@WillieWheels]

@@JoeSimpsonAtTempest 😂

[@cdiperformanceparts4364]

Um...um...um umumu um um um um um. Dude right a script I made it 5 seconds and stopped the video. Ever other word is um. Um I am get out of here real quick.

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

You are the 23,000th person to point that out. All of the early videos are pretty bad. The good news is it has made it easy for them to get better 🤣

[@cdiperformanceparts4364]

@@JoeSimpsonAtTempest lol well I can't knock a guy for trying and continuously getting better and from what you said your starting point was um a um ya pretty far off place. Cheers and keep up the positive attitude and take care brother.

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

Thanks i appreciate it. I actually just made another ignition timing video, on a turbo LS. Check that one out it’s way better than this one 👊

[@verdadduele7925]

@@JoeSimpsonAtTempest You do a great Job Joe regardless of "ummss". Um thanks 😆