How Much Money Do Songwriters Make (and How Do They Get Paid)

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[@TodayIFoundOut]

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[@ianpdavis]

In da club....

[@bendadestroyer]

*So your most popular video netted about $35,000 !!!!! That's nuts!*

[@ZackSeifMusic]

Owning the rights to your compositions and master recordings is crucial in this day and age. Historically the label owned your masters against your loans/advances for decades, and publishers owned 50% of the composition copyrights. As a full time musician myself, I earn 50% from touring and 50% from teaching lessons. it's a decent balance that allows me to pay the bills, do what I love, and worry about starving. There are more ways to make money as a musician today than 30 years ago (streaming, live streaming, sales, lessons, touring, merch, patreon, limited runs, guest spots, producing/songwriting with other artists, session work, running a subsidiary label, creating loops and samples, collaborating with other artists, partnering with other companies, starting your own guitar/pedal brand, synchronization, sheet music, derivative rights, allowing covers to be made etc.)

[@CaraTheStrange]

Only legends remember the first upload of the video

[@wesm5695]

I watched it and I was wondering cause the title didn't match what was being talked about

[@sbcee2220]

Legend here then. Still waiting for the Warographics that was accidentally uploaded a couple weeks ago to be released again.

[@guyvanarsdall7686]

@@wesm5695 I remember it like it was yesterday...

[@thomasthompson5613]

So I'm sure you're all wondering why I gathered you here today...

[@TKolb13]

And the second. And now third!

[@SamVillano]

As a composer, this varies DRASTICALLY. On one end of the spectrum, you have indie artists who may be able to buy a coffee when they get their streaming royalties. On the other end of the spectrum, you have people who are flying in private jets and driving super cars. For AAA video game music, rates can be upward of $1,000 a minute; if you're a big name, you can get much more than that. For film, big names command millions of dollars for their scores, but often the youngest/those entering the industry are doing a lot of the actual writing on big scores (more in TV/streaming, but also in film) and don't even get credit (so you can imagine how much they're paid). Bottom line, if you like an smaller artist, buy their music (don't stream it, or buy it AND stream it); buy their merch; donate to their projects, and go to their shows.

[@memofromessex]

Good luck to you!

[@JamesFromTexas]

From what I understand, musicians make the most off of their live shows and merchandise. The labels take a ton of money for everything else. Is that about right?

[@BassForever44]

@@JamesFromTexas correct. Unless you're a 1 percenter kind of musician. Then, you'll make a f-ton of money

[@JamesFromTexas]

@@BassForever44 yeah, like the guys that have their own label, finance all the merchandise, and can rent staduims like it's pocket change. Those types of guys?

[@SamVillano]

@@JamesFromTexas It varies for everyone, but, generally speaking, musicians make more when you directly engage with them vs through an intermediary (such as a streaming service).

[@anathardayaldar]

If song writing teams are getting bigger, why are the most popular songs getting simpler?

[@robocook01]

I once met an uncredited songwriter of the song "Seasons in The Sun" around 1997-98 while I was working at an auction house. He claimed he helped Terry Jacks re-write the song in 1972-73 to tone it down as the original lyrics were very dark, and he still received around $18000 annually in royalties. He saw I was doubtful of his claim, and showed me quarterly cheques that he had cashed over the years. He also claimed it was the easiest money he ever made and had actually lived off the royalties with his wife and dog while perpetually travelling all over North America in their beat up, old VW bus. I shoulda started writing songs right then and there!! LOL...Peace.

[@colt5189]

Next video: "How to fire a video editor for uploading the wrong video".

[@flufffycow]

I 2nd that.

[@ABadassDragon]

Lol

[@leighpowell1062]

The editor goes into the Blayzement

[@TrineDaely]

Likely frazzled and exhausted rather than lazy. Editing is more work than you think it is, and there's a lot of Simon to edit. Especially when this probably would have been in processing when YT changed their partner terms and guidelines *yet again.* When you consider the sheer number of uploads across all his channels I'm surprised an oops doesn't happen monthly. Most likely it was a simple slip that caused the file to be saved under the wrong name or something along those lines. It happens. We joke about it. This may not even get the infamy of the accidentally uploaded raw footage of Anthrax Island that really impressed us.

[@carlstanland5333]

(Creaks open video to see if it’s the right one this time…)

[@maenad1231]

Finally I can know how much songwriters make and not just know about how the parental advisory on music was made by a lazy mother

[@bobyoung6446]

Tipper Gore, the OG Karen.

[@joshsmith3927]

I am a songwriter/recording artist and this video is incredible! I’ve been in the business for 20 years and still learned a great deal.

[@monty4336]

You haven't learned sooner that bands/artists get screwed on record sales??

[@monty4336]

Lots of big names have sued their labels for better royalties including Metallica, Kiss, Prince. To name a few.

[@redtaylorsversion8492]

can you say how much radio pays writers?

[@peterinbrat]

When Neil Sedaka wrote the Carson theme to the Tonight Show he cleverly gave Johnny half the writing credits. And Sedaka never had to work again..

[@goombah1970]

OK, I'm certainly not arguing with you but I'm not understanding you either. How did his work? Was splitting the financial pie with Carson simply an incentive for Carson to continue using the song for decades? Was something more devious at work?

[@privatelyprivate3285]

@@goombah1970 same assumption here, but would also appreciate confirmation from OP

[@kdefensemartialarts8097]

Thank you for your videos.

[@berrytrenzy]

Making money is an action. Keeping money is behavior. Growing money is knowledge..

[@desireebowman9178]

Much much money earning profit from Brian Nelson

[@John-eh6dx]

My Great Great Grandfather wrote the music to Home home on the range

[@diegogiovanni1]

Is this the right one this time???!!! #TeamSimonAllegedly #tease

[@dominicwaghorn6459]

I work for the uk’s music licensing company. I would say that we are the most hated company in the uk hands down.

[@DeadMusicChannel]

As an independent artist, I can attest that there is still no finding success without a record label backing you. The unbelievable amount of "so called" promoters out there are the main reason why. Before I knew of this, I worked with a few of them in the belief it would pay off later. While it did lead to plays, likes, and subscriptions, it lead to nothing else, and now we are broke, homeless, and we struggle to survive everyday. Every single unsolicited interaction over our music has been with one of these "promoters," and there have been a lot. It is my theory that the big record labels are partly, or wholly responsible for this. After all, they certainly have the means, and it would be foolish to think that they would just sit back, and allow themselves to become obsolete. This is just a theory I developed over my two years of experience trying to get heard, so take that with a grain of salt.

[@12yearssober]

Because the government is behind it. Only who they want to make it actually make it. Same with Hollywood.

[@_Super_Hans_]

lol

[@DeadMusicChannel]

From the outside, it is difficult to understand, from the inside, it is difficult to explain.

[@beanbean78]

Tldr

[@babyzorilla]

Have you ever attempted to sell your songs? I ask because I have some songs that I intend to solicit. Just wondering how the process works.

[@sethbrooks8889]

Hey hey, the actual video, thanks for all that you do background crew, and Simon

[@Trenz0]

Wow, 'Frank Jones - Standard Love Song.' Such a great song. Back before he sold out and made 'Upbeat Dance Tune'

[@monty4336]

I have met many famous bands over the last 30 years. From Slayer to Motorhead, Pantera, Megadeth and all of them have said in one way or another that basically if they didn't tour relentlessly, especially on the heels of a successful release, they would be broke. Why? Because that's where they earn the bulk of their income. The record companies earn the bulk from record sales. Bands tend to get less than 10 cents per dollar per sale. The record companies pay for studio time, producer fee, engineers fee, pressing up copies of the release, advertising the release and often times, tour start up costs which, the band owes them. Which is why ticket sales and merchandise are so important for artists. Now you can understand why bands get angry if people are selling unauthorized merchandise outside their concerts.

[@scottglasgowmusic]

I live off my royalties, not the fee I charge for scoring a film. Royalties are everything so keeping them accurate and accountable is yet another job a songwriter / composer has to do in the day (or hire someone to do it for them). Soundtracks are 12-15% to the artist on average but no one buys album any more so it's all streaming which is utter crap pay. 52k average per year for a song writer sound high to me now a days (sadly).

[@Des_Armoni]

Thats it? I know guys making $500k a year writing hiphop and a bit of rnb. took them a while to start making any money though. I though in the other realms u guys would be making a lot more compared to rap and rnb.

[@redtaylorsversion8492]

how much you make from radio?

[@amandajones661]

Here we go! It's the correct one now. 😃

[@joylox]

Ironically the ad in this video is taking my job before I've even been able to get started. I had wanted to do music arranging, but I've only been able to do that for fun, and studied website development as my major.

[@PatrickRussellMusic]

A small correction. Covers on KZbin are able to be monetized without a prepaid fee. Content ID will grab them essentially 100 percent of the time, but once you hit the required watch time and subscriber counts you can do revenue sharing with the song's license holders. It reduces your incoming revenue, but you don't need to pay out for a sync license in those cases. For smaller creators like me, the cost of a proper sync license wouldn't be worth the incoming ad revenue of proper licensing. This type of revenue sharing allows for me to monetize content that otherwise wouldn't be able to be.

[@guyvanarsdall7686]

😁Once more, take it from the top...

[@DBurpees1]

Oh goody, it’s the actual video this time.

[@terencehubley1476]

Pretty sure Chris just put that one line in there to make Simon say "ba-JORK".

[@ksteak27]

Awww maaaan. I wanted to know about parental warning stickers. Harumph.

[@twocvbloke]

So basically, if you like what the artist writes, buy it, so they can make more songs, personally my favourite is Amy Macdonald, she may not be "big" like that adele one, but her sonds are actulaly proper toe-tapping up-beat fun songs, which I love... :D

[@TabithaHawk]

Hello from Nashville, TN

[@joegoss30]

Something I don't understand fully, but have heard about is "change a word, in for a third." It happens when the recording artist changes something about the song -- lyrics are the most common. So the singer asks for a songwriting credit. If you are a big enough seller, the songwriter is pretty much extorted into accepting the deal -- otherwise, the song might get dropped from distribution or not promoted heavily. One example, I'm aware of involves Steve Goodman, who wrote "City of New Orleans," a big hit back in the 1970s. John Denver recorded that song and forced Goodman into giving him shared credit. Arlo Guthrie, who recorded the original hit version, got mad at Denver because Goodman was dying (he died in 1984 from a long diagnosed case of leukemia) and had a family to support. Denver apologized & said he would revoke the credit, but supposedly never did. David Allen Coe also gave Goodman full credit for a song he changed drastically, presumably for similar reasons to Arlo. I believe the Goodman family eventually sold the rights to all his songs to some music concern, which probably makes sense because you get the cash now and the rights values have to diminish the longer the songs are distant from when they were popular.

[@kellyalvarado6533]

This is allegedly exactly what Garth Brooks did back in his heyday as well. He would change/add a tiny fraction of a song, get credit for co-writing, and rake in double the cash. But for a decade just about everything he touched was gold so the songwriter had to choose between 50% of a million or 100% of a few thousand. Brooks knew an artists career rarely lasts for very long while the residuals could make the person comfortable for life.

[@MrRezRising]

My roommate in the early 90s wrote one line that was used in a Joey Lawrence song. He made about 20k over the next few years.

[@chazparker3657]

Simon’s description of music licensing as a complex and opaque industry is an understatement. I have dealt with music licensing in my work which is conference and event management. There are dozens of music licensing companies, ASCAP is the largest in the US. The other giant is BMI based in Europe but also operates here. Artists may be affiliated with ASCAP or BMI or one of the smaller companies. Just paying an ASCAP fee doesn’t mean the venue/event manager is covered. Thinking you have an ASCAP license and therefore can play a BMI listed artist is wrong. BMI is entitled to a licensing fee for that songwriter. Both these companies license tens of millions of songs. They maintain databases for clients to search the copyright for a specific song in their catalogs. Venues and event producers may maintain licenses with both ASCAP and BMI although some choose only one licensing company. Then will only use music from that specific company. A venue, producer, event manager can get into a serious legal entanglement for playing unlicensed music to just about any size audience. Both ASCAP and BMI have the power to shut down a performance immediately. They have representatives and agents who monitor this stuff and take action. There’s many an event sponsor who have paid tremendous amounts of money for failure to obtain music licenses.

[@lexzbuddy]

I am a musician & I play several instruments. Several people I know are professionals and several have gave it up. I personally have no interest in making money as the "business" is such a deceptive scam you would wither to know the truth. I hate to break it to folks but it's seriously hard to make a living as a musician. You won't be getting rich these days kids. I may be active but I stay clear of anything that is commercial or money making. I have so many horror stories you would not believe it.

[@kirbymarchbarcena]

It is so unfortunate that not so many get success from using their talents for various reasons.

[@CommanderReplay]

Megadeth, Metallica and Stratovarius. Who ever put the image together has good taste in music.

[@russellfitzpatrick503]

Finally got what I turned up y'day evening for. Thanks

[@jmanj3917]

Grandfather clocks don't just suddenly stop. They stop slowly as the pendulum slowly halts its swinging. But that doesn't lead to spooky stories...

[@Vordb666]

15:20 was waiting for a pop songwriter like Max Martin to come up in this video lol

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

When a company from Georgia arrived in Australia they played 'Marching Through Georgia'. Which is funny if you Civil War history

[@matthewgilbert9881]

Simón said KZbin has been criticized for its lack of opaqueness… which I assume is the opposite of what the writer meant to say…. I know it’s pedantic…

[@GrahamGibby]

Jennifer Nelson is my cousin and she ROCKS!

[@AIChameleonMusic]

Twenty One Pilots Tyler Joseph, lead singer of the band wrote most of their music himself. The drummer, Josh Dun, helped writing lyrics for their new album “Trench”. To me i have more respect for a band like that.

[@olwynskye417]

Oh this wasn't a Brain Blaze video. Imagined an answer to the effect of living in your car and texting "Mommy can you please send me some money for food?" several times a month. 😂

[@jmanj3917]

11:11 *???* Why no mention of Led Zeppelin's creation of the Swan Song record label?

[@zonimacabre]

Yes! Let’s get some Music info Videos I love it!

[@theskintexpat-themightygreegor]

I knew the broad strokes of this video before, but I was interested in what Simon and his team had to say. I've been a musician and songwriter for most of my life, but the only time I ever made any money was as a session or gig player. Still, I never made any money (well, not much) playing my own or my band's own original music, which is why I'm now an English teacher. This is also a laughably low-paying job, but I was delighted to discover that I could do this and make FAR more money than I ever did as a musician. It's sad, but there it is. (Notice I avoided the title of the Metallica song - Metallica pisses me off because they are my contemporaries but they made it HUGE and I did not. Pissy? Yes. Justified? Well...yes.)

[@skyden24195]

I'm sure this isn't news to a lot of people, but just to cover the base, the very limited amount of revenue that the actual song performing artists receive from selling the song(s) is why the performers rely on concert ticket sales for the bulk of their income, (typically, but there are other means for added revenue, however the artists are generally able to generate larger shares of revenue through live performances.)

[@hoofhearted1102]

Not with the 360 contract they make artists sign whereby the record company get a large percentage of tickets and merchandise

[@skyden24195]

@@hoofhearted1102 sure, if the artist(s) sign such a contract which isn't unheard of, but not all artists do enter into such a contract. Typically, I would think, it is a "new" artist that some big-time producer is promoting, basically what I would call a "manufactured" artist, (so to speak.)

[@thomasnelson6161]

I wouldn't change all of Simon's mispronounciations for anything.

[@joeking4206]

It was bad enough in the 70s and 80s when bands like Queen struggled with being ripped off until they got smarter and changed their approach. Also bands like Slade and many others got ripped. The 80s and 90s bands learned from those experiences but the new streaming systems seem to have swung the pendulum back to the sharks. The risk is that the music industry will die slowly through lack of originality, but the equal problem is that the current sharks don't care because they will have made their money and will have retired to a tax haven. The REAL worry is for the next generation of musicians (if any of them bother to get into it professionally) who will not trust the sharks (sorry, music producers) and it will all die. But hey! The good news is, the next generation will be listening to Bowie, Pink Floyd, Elton John and the Foo Fighters, so that's good 😂

[@NmpK24]

Eventually what'll happen is there will be no more (or very little) newly composed music because record companies will buy up the publishing from those big legacy acts. Then put together manufactured bands to rerecord cover versions of previous hit songs and audiences wont know or even care. In a way its already happening, some have already sold their publishing to the majors for big money.

[@atomicash2475]

Eye it's the right one

[@pheenix135]

Idk man I've been burned by this title before...

[@maenad1231]

#TrustIssues

[@jrsmoots]

Well done!

[@Yupppi]

Did warner-chappelle ever pay those 14 million dollars or did they weasel out as companies usually do? This video is a good background education on why managers often recommend bands to mark every song as made by the band instead of an individual. Just because it'll cause break ups of superstar bands for arguing why someone gets massively more money despite arguably they make the songs together and perform them together making them hits at all. Originally artists considered Spotify as just pirating and stealing their music. However as the years developed, now artists consider it only as a hoax and the companies representing their music have better customised deals with the platform than the artist, cleverly grabbing their share and leaving the artist dry. The thing you didn't mention about copyright on youtube is that the lavels employ teams that just click DMCA on videos. Furthermore the youtube's system works so that you can challenge it, but it's not usually leading anywhere and if it doesn't you get penalized and a couple of penalties on that and your channel is permanently gone. So basically anyone doing fair use has to give up all monetisation on the video or risk their channel getting deleted with no discussion or reclamation. And in worst case scenario even if you performed the song by yourself and only did for three seconds while the video was completely obviously educational, they might still automatically issue a DMCA takedown for the whole video, not just demonetisation. The content creators are basically blackmailed into submission by mafia like henchmen methods. Fortunately a couple of artists heard a big youtuber they respect speak about this and got the big wheel rolling regarding their own music, eventually getting the videos allowed even if demonetised. It's hilarious though considering that the most adamant artists (representers of those artists) are the ones falling into obscurity with younger generations because their music is no longer heard anywhere, and they think the only way to benefit is to take a chokehold and prevent any of it being heard without royalties. Ironically killing their very good milking cow because nobody will listen to it anymore, just because they'll never encounter the music due to the actions of the copyright holders. Also worth considering is that the less popular artists were never in a better situation in terms of generating income. The streaming service payments just highlight how the deals with artists have evolved to artists not getting paid. Back when the physical media was still going hot for music, the big hit artists were the ones paying basically most of the roster. They generated so much that it could be trickled down on the other artists that weren't generating their own costs. That's why the labels also had the head hunters working hard trying to discover the next hit artists (majority of them never understanding music, just trying to find the ones that were copies of what was currently selling).

[@virginiathomasakaicedragon6579]

Meghan Train or wrote All about that bass for Beyonce, Hey turned it down so she did her self. She put out a banger and had all of us singing it and I absolutely have no bass

[@jeremynolan4681]

The way he said "and I boogied" the way he pronounced "boogied" is the most British thing I've ever heard. 😂

[@richardjones2455]

Excellent!

[@lizzyfp3542]

I have a friend who is a singer/songwriter and he has had some success one of his songs has been on Australian national radio stations and others have won awards but he still has a full time day job. His music career is more of a side gig. A nice little bit that just pays for itself because he streams on twitch as well.

[@samwise4me903]

Thank you for satisfying my curiosity.

[@tonbopro]

reupload eh？ ahhh the actual video 👍

[@maxwirt921]

Vic Flick, the Man who wrote and performed the original James Bond theme, got a 1 time payment of $15 in 1962. Just under $150 today.

[@magusxxx]

Two things about multiple people writing the same song. It's been well established that... 1) A song will be written by X number of people only for the singer to come in, change two words, and they get a songwriting credit. More money, credibility, and bigger ego to follow. 2) There was a rap song which had something like six to eight people writing on it. How is this possible? The artist (forget who) publicly said those were all his friends who were in the room at the time as ideas were being bounced around. By giving them a songwriting credit it made these friends feel less guilty than if they were just given an allowance. Fair enough.

[@Zeldaschampion]

Kayne East...LOL.

[@curtislindsey1736]

Ben Folds has a song called "Fred Jones Pt. 2" that is excellent.

[@tony_25or6to4]

How do songwriters get paid for an artist performer one of their songs at a concert? Performers make more money touring than a recording, but they may be performing someone else's writing or covering another artists song?

[@matthewwynne939]

Then there is no even further subdivision of people who simply string words together in hopes that somebody will make a song out of it, writing words to songs that don't exist yet

[@nathanpen1031]

Does anyone make royalties on books sold in used book stores?

[@lmzaadi]

I’ve often wondered

[@123.45-d]

Video about how disney keeps winnie the pooh and mickey copyrughted after all these years❓

[@domgag1756]

Mistakes happen, just move one.

[@paul-zy9xo]

Should tell us how the music on tiktok works

[@seandelap8587]

So this was supposed to be yesterday's video then

[@hailmaryrecordings8255]

Your record is worthless now, unless it’s classic & collectible … people expect-it for free. The money is in live performance. It always has-been. I believe the Beatles first contract was 6% of sales.

[@flybennu]

Squidward loves this squideo! 😏🐙

[@GDTRFB]

Robert Hunter/John Perry Barlow, in collaboration with Jerry Garcia/Bobby Weir, are two of the most prolific song writers of our time ☠️⚡️⚡️☠️

[@tonycasey3183]

Does anybody else play the "spot-Simon's-weird-pronunciations-game"?

[@tpcdude]

just when did we take a deep breath ....

[@pamelamays4186]

Yesterday's video drop, take two! 🎬

[@pauldaugherty1819]

I don't fully understand why but this was extremely entertaining and I would definitely like to see more "latigious" Content

[@DeaDGoD_XIV]

It's Tipper Gore that makes sure songwriters get paid a good wage, right?

[@OkieOtaku]

There's a throw back reference for you.....

[@t.m.mcwalto6075]

why was the piano so dirty in that picture?

[@MorganHorse]

I’m now less sad that I never got good at music.

[@N0DIS]

You need a second channel that describes how to FIX some of the things you "found out" that are obviously broken.

[@rheinhardtgrafvonthiesenha8185]

I’ll give you the honest answer. They don’t and we dont

[@BeesWaxMinder]

12:55 - I thought “happy birthday“ was owned by Paul McCartney..?🤔

[@ClickChase]

I wrote a very minor hit which was included on Universal Music 100 hit songs 2016. Get this.. I made more money independent than I did on a major. The overheads kill you. 🤣 btw I have a new tune out on the 5th july if anyone fancies pre saving it :) link in bio.

[@blaizegottman4139]

Pretty interesting

[@danballard41]

to complicated to enjoy....might have been more interesting if selected 4 or 5 individuals to compare

[@Fnelrbnef]

Any songwriters here? GIVE ME SOME TIPS! Anything. Books to read? People to check out, mentor figures? A masterclass? I wanna write for other artists. MAYBE myself. One time. I wanna get into it, but I have horrible instinct for networking or actual moves made in the real world, it's like trying to learn another language. I don't get it. But I can write songs. Ish.

[@babyzorilla]

Do you have a catalog?

[@Fnelrbnef]

Well. No😅 Honestly I've never made a full song before. Just an ocean of bits and pieces and ideas. I never imagined it as something to do. But I have to so something..@@babyzorilla

[@babyzorilla]

@@Fnelrbnef as far as books get “Song Writing for Dummies” also Stephen Kings memoir is great it tells you about the obstacles and his process of writing. Also learn theory ‘ get Evernote or Google Docs so you can write from anywhere. Want you to finish the first song. Once you get over that hump it will only get easier.

[@babyzorilla]

@@Fnelrbnef also that ocean of bits and pieces and ideas that’s your very valuable sketchbook All you need to do now is turn them into full illustrations .

[@Fnelrbnef]

Thanks. I'll check it out. The songs are not the problem though. Everything else that follows is. Networking, marketing, socials, etc. I have no instinct for it..@@babyzorilla

[@SMarcey]

Now you know our pain

[@gregjrattray69]

Um Simon just a quick one in bjork the j is said as a Y not a J

[@AdamOBrien29]

Next do KZbin script writers ;)

[@stevenhawkins179]

A wise man once said that the best way to make money in the record industry is to become a coke dealer.

[@majorbuzz]

Ahh, everything is back to norbal (Mad Magazine reference).

[@beagleissleeping5359]

KZbinr Rachel Maksy got a copyright notice because she sang a line from a song while doing her make-up.

[@BojanMilic84]

wow... this video kinda bombed. Shame, I enjoyed it.

[@serendipityvagina]

“Lack of opaqueness” 18:02

[@auro1986]

ask how many songs are actually written by those who claim to have written them

[@tony_25or6to4]

How much did Slade make from Quiet Riot's cover of "Cum On Feel The Noize"?

[@angelabilyeu2927]

I'm more confused. Good thing I don't need to know. I guess ignorance really is bliss. 😄