How One Group Has Corrupted The Climate Debate On The Left

[@PILLOCK4]

Terrible take to view scientists as part of the problem here. Most scientists understand very well that the oil corporates are the main problem. I think often the PMC exploits the science rather than the scientists being part of the PMC.

[@PILLOCK4]

Wow, the Heartland Institute. Forgive me for not caring what they have to say about anything.

[@anmolt3840051]

The Heartland Institute is a thoroughly characterless group of corporate whores who tried to convince people that the ill effects of smoking was being overblown in the 90s

[@AB-zl4nh]

You have confused what PMC means. Scientists are part of the PMC, it's just logical. You have for whatever reason presumed being in the PMC automatically means you do X or Y. Which is not true, the guest was generalising for the sake of argument.

[@jan-willemvandijk3850]

A postdoc in academia makes about the same as a Costco employee. Does this guy realize that? Person goes to college, sometimes gets a master's degree, then works 5-8 years earning a PhD earning 25-30k a year and then with all this education makes 45-50k as a postdoc. Those you lump in with the PMC?

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

The daily Wire is really pushing their gross ads on any political videos.

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

@Jebus Hypocristos yeah I did that. Wasn't sure if I could report the ad for being transphobic but I reported it for having seen too many ads from the one company. 3 daily Wire ads just this morning.

[@chav2002]

Adblockers

[@tcf5361]

Without seeing more of the interview and having greater context it's very hard to see this as "one group corrupting it". Scientists and bureaucrats are not monolithic so ascribing to them that capitalist lenses are applied to climate action doesn't sit right. Its often those scientists ringing alarm bells in government and they've done so recognizing climate change doesn't affect everyone equally. It's not PMC but American culture that conditions people to think in consumerist modes, like buying solar panels is good, while that same culture discourages other avenues, like class conscious climate action and end to infinite growth on a finite planet. If we boil things down to "group X was co-opted therefore we should disavow" that doesn't solve anything. For leftists watching this they ought to know that cultivating opinion bases is critical to social change. There's a world of difference between Buttigieg and government climate scientists and vilifying scientists for being co-opted or scoffing them for believing in democracy again, won't solve anything or foster class consciousness.

[@MLPGamer44]

Professional middle class is a useless word. Class relations are defined by relations to the means of productions. Just because they are higher up in the system, does not make them the owners. They are workers in the end and trying to divide the working class is counter revolutionary bs. This guy has a problem with virtue signaling and those who engage in consumerism as praxis, but that doesn’t make them another or different class. Such a lame dichotomy and way to separate a single class of workers. If you mean someone who’s material interests are aligned with the owners/bourgeoise then just say petite bourgeoise or class traitor.

[@cool_sword]

It's very common to see someone use Marxist language to claim that class is defined solely by relation to the means of production, but they usually aren't dumb enough to admit Marx distinguished the petite bourgeoisie while they're doing it.

[@MLPGamer44]

@@cool_sword the existence of petite bourgeoise does not negate any of the contradictions that lead to class antagonisms between workers and owners. If you’re attempting to strawman what I said, build it a little better.

[@calibansrevenge8266]

Full agree. Can't believe anybody is still pedaling PMC at this point. Sometimes it feels like the Left is running on a fricking treadmill.

[@hitoshijohnson]

Professional-managerial class* - it's not useless if you actually know what's being referenced.

[@calibansrevenge8266]

@@hitoshijohnson pointing out a minor misuse of terminology isn't offering a counter argument and it's certainly not the breath taking rhetorical slam dunk you seem to think it is.

[@gamervox1707]

Scientist are not a Managerial class because they are doing work such as studies and on the groups taking of a Samples added any Joe or jean can be one as a hobby.. Scientist is wide ranged of people.

[@إسماعيلالحروي]

I feel like this interview is just a waste of time , some scientist and some politicians are a bit self involved when they talk about climate change . Okay, so what? If i'm missing the point could someone explain it to me please.

[@sachamm]

You do realize we had to convince the PMC in the first place, right? I mean even 5 years ago this was a real debate among the PMC "rabble" and 10 years ago even the intellectual "elite" weren't all convinced. Let's not forget that this is not a fight of facts OR morality. This guy's suggestion is hilarious and misses completely what's been going on for the last 40 years. MONEY. IN. POLITICS. has brainwashed several generations of right wingers (and left-wingers are _far_ from immune) to the point that they literally *do not care* about policy. All they care about is winning and owning the libs.

[@severalwolves]

cool thoughts!

[@gattaca5911]

maga is catered not brainwashed...new voters who have their sociopathy served up to them not convincing them.

[@hitoshijohnson]

"rabble" relates to the lumpenproletariat not the pmc. just fyi.

[@rishabhanand4973]

Carbon taxes are good, but not in the way people think and not on their own. The point of the carbon tax is to incentivize certain behaviors and disincentivizing others. Namely, taking public transportation instead of a car. That doesn't work if public transit is not available. So on one hand, you need to build public transit infrastructure. But if you don't have a carbon tax to go along with it, people will just keep taking the car. So the point of the carbon tax is to provide that initial nudge. The credits thing is not though.

[@SpoopySquid]

@@jim2498 what a disingenuous take. The whole point is to get rid of fossil fuels and replace them with green alternatives

[@gattaca5911]

@@jim2498 garbage. good gov transition policy prevents that. See Norway EV policy & gfy

[@gattaca5911]

@@jim2498 "we can not do the same as Norway." - why?....are they aliens?

[@gattaca5911]

@@jim2498 "agricultural industry?" - listen to experts not online dum dums...start with gov regulation on water pig crops.

[@gattaca5911]

@@jim2498 " can't take credit for that comment." - stop quoting fascist oil energy shills....collaborator.

[@KG9551]

I disagree a bit on the carbon pricing bills… most of them include some kind of subsidies and payments for working and middle class Americans to ensure they are not unfairly impacted. These solutions aren’t perfect, but they’re better than what we’ve got. I just wouldn’t write them off completely as anti-poor or working class.

[@strezztechnoid]

As a scientist, over 40 years in technology and scientific disciplines, shaming scientists as a class is horribly myopic. If you want to be accurate, why not call out the religiosity of the bishops and cardinals of science. If you are to make an observation that might make sense, look at institutional preservation, grant funding, and the bias held by both those inside and outside of academia. I have had many interactions with institutionalist and are easily recognizable. What you are doing is throwing the individual scientists that stand outside political ramparts. Interesting, this sneering commentary is complaining about sneering.

[@Atmost11]

In my opinion, youre up in that ivory tower. You're not angry enough, you actually believe that we need to calm down and settle this dont you. You're "above" being angry about civilization being destroyed for no good reason whatsoever, the potential of the USA to solve problems being wasted. WHO CARES about your struggle with the bishops and cardinals of science.

[@tonyolo4591]

i dont think he is blaming scientists as in the people, i think he's blaming the career itself (scientist). more accurately the nature of that career, and how funding works. capitalism has a way of influencing what scientists get to study.

[@karlerikpaulsson88]

@@tonyolo4591 even in that case, he clearly doesn't understand the scientific profession.

[@glennwiech5083]

The guest is correct that a carbon tax failed to pass in Washington, but it's not because it was inherently unpopular as he intimated. The plan was going to pass overwhelmingly until the oil and gas industry spent tens of millions of dollars on ads to fearmonger about the plan. The problem was not the idea, but the political climate where an industry can spend tens of millions of dollars to defeat public initiatives they don't like. I challenge anyone to come up with a policy to rein in fossil fuels and promote clean energy that can survive an onslaught of negative ads from the fossil fuel industry.

[@Dc0sby]

Starting to feel like this movement's only real goal is consistently trying to remove people from it, we lack power, money, and the will of the people but always trying to discover new ways how allies are bad.

[@_audacity2722]

“Allies” who take food off the table while failing to invest in public transit..... riiiiiight

[@ProfDCoy]

Yep, tbh, I'm getting a little tired of the online left trying to find any angle to psychoanalyse the PMC left for just...wanting climate change policies that are a little more actionable in the neoliberal order of weak unions than "whinge about the PMC" or "go join a union" or "organise locally in some nebulous way". Like yeah, the PMC can be annoying and sanctimonious. But I'm hearing a lot more tangible and and actionable ideas from them about what we CAN do to prevent climate change than I'm hearing from the online leftist chattering class. Like seriously, a carbon tax isn't inherently unworkable. And yes, it has further political and policy difficulties because you need to redistribute the new income from the tax towards giving working people affordable transportation nd etc. But it DOES work at reducing emissions. We have data on this. And until the leftist chattering class comes up with better ideas that they can actually get done, this is just the kind of virtue signalling sanctimony that we accuse the PMC of - and wrongly in this case. "Oh, I'M better than the PMC (even though I also have a college education and also work in media) because I hate the nebulous PMC for their climate virtue signalling. Actionable solutions? What are those?" Listen, we all want some combination of the GND and degrowth. But we still don't have the organisational base to snap our fingers and make it happen. So accepting some actual climate policy in the meantime is better than empty virtue signalling. There will be no opportunity for union action and the socialist revolution in a dying world. So we have to find the allies in the PMC who are thinking harder about what climate policy we CAN achieve and...work with them.

[@ProfDCoy]

Hell, my own country, Australia, just voted in our centre-left and still union dependent Labor party. While Labor's new climate policies could do more - 43% reduction by 2030 is great but isn't enough - they found all the policies they could do by TALKING with all those scientists and bureaucrats that actually know how to get things done. And yeah, it's also centre-leftist and worker-centred which is pretty cool. But it does 't shut out experts just because they're sometimes annoying to talk to.

[@Dc0sby]

@@_audacity2722 Who the scientists and writers? Even the political community at least know its a problem and want change maybe not to point to give up power but still better than trying to burn things to the ground.

[@chrisperez3614]

The fuck are you talking about? Who said anything about these people being bad? You people need to stop getting triggered by these types of analyses.

[@samstephens5099]

Coming from a member of the scientist guild of the PMC, this guy is 100% correct. There's a huge gulf between how this group and the working class thinks about global warming. Punishing them with carbon taxes only makes them more resentful of the "believe science" zealots.

[@gavriloking5637]

It’s not all about creating advantages … we live in a highly specialized society and as a degreed teacher in History with a license I can tell you the horrors of an education I’ve seen people without my qualifications delivery in a History class. Now of course there are folks with all the degrees in the world who are still bad history teachers but it is less likely to happen than someone without them. If you view qualifications as simply a weapon to keep the poor down then you are a moron. People like myself actually want all education to be completely free and so I am not pulling the ladder up behind me.

[@Atmost11]

In the 1980s and early 1990s, software companies hired computer programmers even without any degree, so long as you could write code. Now they nitpick over how good your degree is, and the quality of your degree is a ceiling forever. Because they can get unlimited numbers of fresh graduates overseas. The big dirty secret is, on the job training is standard industry practice if you have a good fresh degree, otherwise experience actually can be used against you or at best doesnt help you.

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

@@Atmost11 college should be free

[@Atmost11]

@@TwoForFlinchin1 Absolutely, in my opinion, without free college there is no way for fascism not to take over

[@ngusumakofu1]

@@Atmost11 as someone with a CS background, I can tell you first hand that the difference between programmers with a solid CS education and self taught or boot camp made programmers is light and day. I know this in part because I started off as self taught.

[@Atmost11]

@@ngusumakofu1 That is irrelevant after years and years of experience. If what you say were true, those fresh out of school - interns - would be the best, but those fresh out of school face difficulty in their job search for lack of experience. For senior programmers, school is far behind them, yet senior programmers get paid more! No, you're just self rationalizing your privilege. College was probably the one time in your life when you really worked hard, and its your excuse to feel better than other people. You're also trying to justify the offshoring. Its people like you who are the reason corporate America has found it so easy to offshore the jobs - people like you who dont think it will ever affect you because you're so special, because you worked hard in college. I remember when I was fresh out of school, I could not do anything, and I have worked with interns. If what you just shot your mouth off about were true, interns would be the very very best, since they are the freshest out.

[@t_ylr]

Is it even a useful distinction? We should be saying that unless you're in the capitalist class, we're all workers.

[@cartercartercartercar]

yeah the time for purity politics has been over. i think there’s been a significant pushback against it recently-as people realize it’s all hands on deck-and hopefully it remains that way as time goes on

[@hitoshijohnson]

That ignores what the role of the pmc is.

[@hitoshijohnson]

@@briananderson5102 ignoring the obstacles won't help.

[@ragingtyga]

The problem is two parts. 1. Moving off fossil fuels is not convenient to the market. So, actually doing so, and moving to a green future, REQUIRES YOU, to ignore the market. Getting into a debate about morality, in my view, isn't helpful ether. You basically need a government willing to aggressively make that transition. You also need to have a PLAN, and viable replacements, and in turn, the public, and especially ENVIRONMENTALISTS, need to be accept those. Case and point, Germany. Germany is going to regress back into turning back on all of its coal fired power plants, due to being cut off from Russian Natural Gas. It moved already backward towards dependency to natural gas because environmental campaigns pushed it to shut off most of its nuclear power plants, which are OBJECTIVELY greener and SAFER than Nat Gas, and made Germany more economically secure. Now they will INCREASE carbon emissions, for the sake of its need for energy.

[@glendonmorgan7253]

"Green" people denying nuclear is the best way forward is a huge problem. There is no way we can keep things even relatively close to the way they are now concerning energy consumption while moving towards better carbon neutral solutions without nuclear being a huge part. Of course there are risks with nuclear, but it doesn't produce any greenhouse gases whatsoever. If we go strictly wind and solar then we will need to cut consumption very drastically and we clearly are not going to agree to do that.

[@nickthompson1812]

The misconceptions around nuclear are so detrimental to the fight against climate change. People hear Chernobyl or Fukushima and instantly make their minds up about nuclear. The topic of nuclear as a whole needs to be more widely spoken about to help clear up misconceptions people have (and that I used to have).

[@caroleekeith2823]

The greedy class destroys everything. Re-regulate and restructure the coproate class. The coproate should exist to serve the people and planet. The people should never exist to serve the corporate. And that includes governments.

[@idlehandsarizona]

Hi from Yuma, AZ and here's to Lower Colorado River Accounting! Just a humble public servant.

[@kenlandon6130]

The idea that this happened in 2017 is ludicrous. Most of the environmental groups serve the middle class because that's who works there and donates there. But why shouldn't it be tied to the science?

[@jfsaraceno9265]

As if those two aren't in the PMC

[@hitoshijohnson]

It's almost as if you can have a criticism of a group to which you belong. Far out.

[@Dogga10001]

It’s all about money, not how green we may or may not get.

[@Ianpact]

Thank you, Matt Huber and Emma.

[@frankalicandri6318]

You should put his name and credentials in the Description.

[@IizUname]

I'm going to need to watch the whole conversation because I'm not buying what this guy is selling.

[@MyTv-]

Who’s the guest? He’s interesting wanna hear more.

[@seanpatrick1243]

You seem to completely ignore the role of media marketing in gaslighting the public. At least in this clip.

[@MrQuantumInc]

Any climate change solution that focuses on burning less fossil fuels is going to pass a big cost down to the consumer. That is what any business does, costs go up, so does the price for the consumer. The only exceptions are if you replace the fuel you are no longer burning with another energy source with the exact same cost and do it at the exact same time. I kinda cringe when people point out that most of the carbon comes from a hundred big companies because we all use their product. If you mess with them that will make the product more expensive, which will hurt poor people. The only way they let go of their profit margin is if they are close to collapse (which would also increase the price), in dire competition with other similar companies, or if the whole company gets nationalized (now you are paying for gas via taxes).

[@crithon]

so, it's not Private Military Contractors? a term from the Iraq war? huh, that's weird

[@zendoll1]

Who is this guy?

[@ninja1antelope]

Prof managerial class use credentials but DEFINITELY use knowledge gained from education. But they are incredibly fearful of those with experience. To the point they retard the importance to experience and life knowledge. Hence- why we are seeing over and over failures for certain people means promotions or upward promotional movement.

[@davidrave563]

Establishing a carbon cap and trade scheme is an excellent idea imo. We just have to face up to the painful reality that oil must not be cheap for there to be a transition to renewables. If you're still trying to have it both ways and triangulate a solution where we can have cheap gas and the same consumption habits and patterns of urban development, then you are not serious about climate change and these efforts would end in failure anyway. If we are going to fail anyway, might as well do things right rather than pleasing the drooling unthinking masses.

[@Jorge-np3tq]

How would you prevent a carbon market from becoming symmetrical and incentivizing emissions just as much as it dissuades from them? If I can hold unused carbon permits, and they'll become expensive when they're more scarce, I have an interest on higher emissions so I can sell my permits for more.

[@davidrave563]

@@Jorge-np3tq I think the way it could done is charge a set fee for X amount of carbon emissions, so that doing what you said would be against their interest. So they can either pay that fee or offset the same amount of carbon per year, or fund another organization to offset it. Then the taxes from the carbon emissions can be used to invest in renewable technology.

[@Jorge-np3tq]

@@davidrave563 This is a fine for emissions system. You emit too much, you pay to offset it. Where is the "trade"?

[@idlehandsarizona]

Maybe owning a car or home?

[@outlawbillionairez9780]

Without political and social Principles, you will always be lost in class distinction,class economics, class privilege and class warfare. Develop class Principals.

[@okernist-gut223]

interesting but bad cut in the end though

[@Zeit_waise]

RBF intensifies …

[@geroffmilan3328]

This guy starts from the wrong premise. If you are paid a salary or wage, you are *working* class, not middle class. The middle class are those capitalists who sit between those who work, and those who own conglomerates.

[@hitoshijohnson]

He knows what the pmc is. He even cites the source.

[@stephenbailey9969]

The 'PMC' concept is nothing new. The growth of bureaucracy and professionalization of educated work has been going on since the late 1800's. It is an integral part of modern life and exists in business, government, unions, media outlets, NGO's and charities, etc. It has nothing to do with the veracity of a particular argument, only with how that argument is argued in society. The real questions are the same as always: What are the facts? Who benefits?

[@donnyboy2589]

Honestly, this dude sounds spot on to me.

[@alejandrofrade325]

Yeah let's blame everyone else before the politicians....hahahahha

[@rijkersmith3241]

Read lenin

[@adfury]

Does it matter, if they are traveling in the direction you are going? Or is this too become a purity test?

[@marinakesawa7470]

Show your work. Where is your proof that the PMC is the group most commonly "driving climate advocacy'? It's also a privileged view of activism because it ignores the fact that many people DO care about climate change, and will talk about it to others, but they lack the resources and time to get involved, or they are completely ignored by the upper classes who control our media and politics. By the way, someone should talk to your clips aggregator/editor, because this is a very poor upload. It doesn't mention the name of the guest speaker or his book. Also, there's no explanation as to why Elizabeth Warren's picture accompanies the headline "How One Group Has Corrupted the Climate Debate on the Left." She is a person advocating for systemic action, not individual action, so I don't see the correlation.

[@blakewillson18]

Climate Healers says the United Nations' Food and Agriculture Organizations (FAO) has 'underestimated' the environmental impact of animal ag. Animal agriculture is responsible for at least 87 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, according to a new report. May 4, 2021

[@chrisperez3614]

Libs getting triggered in the comment section lmao 😂

[@nxgrs74]

"...immorality of fossil fuel extraction." This is dark ages, inquisition style, religion.

[@victorydaydeepstate]

Climate change hysterics need medication and treatment.

[@victorydaydeepstate]

@John Smith That's why the Democrats shall be voted out and the godly Heritage Americans shall save America

[@coachking5208]

Let's go BRANDON.

[@flashthompson6566]

You like Brandon? Cringe

[@flashthompson6566]

@Jason Flake oh, I voted for him, too, in the general, but only because the other option was an outright fascist. But I still don't like him. Dude's basically a 90s Republican. And now the Republicans have gone so far right they call a 90s Republican "far left." They call former Republican candidates "RINOs," they're TFG. Outright insane. And if Democrats don't start putting forward real progressives with real solutions and insist on this middle of the road, both sides compromise crap, fascism is going to fully arrive and seize complete power. They've already taken over the judicial branch with their "deep state" organization for lack of a better word. Not a single judge has been appointed by Republicans in decades who isn't a member of the Federalist Society, a non-governmental organization that controls who gets appointed in government. That's the real "deep state," but the right wing won't admit it

[@flashthompson6566]

@@jim2498 if only we had known since, I don't know, the 60s or something that fossil fuels were bad and big capitalist corporations didn't hide the fact that they were destroying our grandchildrens' planet and weaponize an entire political party to deny climate change and we could have slowly transitioned to green energy...

[@flashthompson6566]

@@jim2498 no, because idiots think that, and America has a lot of idiots. Biden didn't do shit to oil. He literally has allowed more drilling and permits than ever before. The reality is actually the opposite of what you are saying, but too many people don't care about reality, they deep throat propaganda instead.

[@mattmanyam]

Bless your heart.