How PROS have better WAVE MANAGMENT than YOU - Top like a pro

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[@kimuraarmlock]

this to me pointed out that jayce can kind of do all 3 styles which is probably why almost all challenger top laners play him, same could be said for jax too.

[@thelacedog1915]

Do you think jax can play the poke style? Genuine question

[@moistsama7408]

@@thelacedog1915I’m gold so take this with a grain of salt but how I play is that I poke with q auto w and then back off and hold e to punish if they try to trade back. Usually I try to condition them to respect my e by using my e in earlier trades then mind gaming later. I’ll even all in holding e if they seem to be waiting for me to use it. Also grasp Jax if pretty good for poking I think.

[@cupidok2768]

can he teach me how to play 1 champ that i like with his coaching?

[@thelacedog1915]

@@cupidok2768 which champ

[@cupidok2768]

@@thelacedog1915 how much he charge? How did u feel about his coaching

[@scottsharwood9465]

Excellent guide

[@thedude2241]

I've been binging your videos since yesterday, and I really like how it makes me think about things I've been doing mostly subconsciously! However, I do sometimes get a bit sceptical. Most of the time because I'm thinking of something the opponent could do to counter your strategy, but you don't mention that thought at all. That might be because it's just a stupid idea, but I'd at least like to know about it. For example, in one of your toplane carry guides, you forced the opponent to be low HP and flash through an ignite trade that would've killed otherwise. From that point on, "the lane is over", because the opponent has to stay to catch the slow pushing wave and could easily be dived. But at no point do you mention their TP, which they could use to miss 1-2 minions at max and be back in lane full HP, while you yourself are halb HP with no second summoner either. By the time ignite is up then and TP isn't, the time window for diving the tank toplaner has long passed and the situation looks completely difference. Another thing that sometimes bothers me are the cuts at specific points/clips. For example at 6:30 this video. "And now she can just freeze", and you cut away the moment Gwen decides to decimate the wave. So she doesn't do at all what you just said would be optimal, and I'd like to know why. Is it because she wants to help her jungler with something next? Does she want the recall because Renek has TP and would come back with full HP and an item vs her half HP freeze? I just want to know why, instead of glossing over it as something that just didn't play out that way. I'm not saying you are wrong in what you're saying, or that you are talking bullshit in any way, but these are just the things that make it seem like you're intentionally hiding clips and explanations that could make your reasoning less believable, which in itself makes them less credible. So maybe see this as just some feedback for how to tackle those things in future videos :) Thanks for the content!

[@alex2005z]

I mean if you think about it the win condition for all in and short trades is the same. Freeze.

[@MrSHOT321]

ty, more top vids pls

[@bloodcraver9183]

Huge overall knowledge.

[@CombatVault]

Nice video. Do the same concepts apply to mid?

[@miguelheredia4123]

X2

[@jeff2v]

now how do you counter each archetype?

[@arcane4869]

Just wanted to ask about the third wave manipulation,how would u react to the enemy not constantly pushing to u,for eg a darius starts not hitting ur wave and starts perma freezing once it reaches his side,but lets say you play camille or shen who has bad clear and hence u cant crash it either

[@LooseToots]

dont push it into his side

[@cupidok2768]

does jayce beat riven at lvl 1?

[@thmspayne]

Straight up call jg to help or go for a proxy. You will die either way but at least with a proxy you can get farm and he misses it chasing you.

[@WiredTenshi]

Looking at the old top layout looks so strange

[@tomatoesquisher8909]

Im trying to figure out where Garen would fit in this? He wants shorter trades so I tend to think the last example, but he clears waves so fast. Thoughts?

[@miguelheredia4123]

I'm pretty sure you want to play garen like either the "short trades/ tanks" or like the "all in / long trades". My argument is that Garen, while being a tank top laner who could be vulnerable against certain matchups (same way as the Ornn against Jayce from the video), it could arguibly deal a large amount of dps against some matchups. With this I mean that if you go against a not hard matchup you can stack waves close to your turrent and play like the Gwen did, while as if you go against a champion that threatens you early, then you should play like the Ornn from the video vs Ksante.

[@CoachRogue]

Really good answer It depends on a few things, your own choice of Keystone can change how you play a lane in some situations, depending on if you go something like grasp or conqueror. But your matchup is the biggest indicator, if you vs ignite Darius with conqueror you're not winning that long trade and should probably opt more for that tanky short trade style like the orn. But if you vs something weaker, let's say a ranged top laner you can play for the long trade all-in style since you don't want to just play passive and get bullied when you could fight back :D

[@brendanduffy5286]

What about grasp Fiora? She certainly doesn't concede as much as Ornn, kayle, etc. I think it plays more like the Gwen example.

[@v-ia]

im a month late but the same concept applies. sure, grasp fiora is certainly more aggressive as your given examples but still notably less so than conq fiora. you really just wanna get your procs out and back off unless you are forced to all in while on conq, consecutive auto attacks can make or break the pick

[@hagalathekido]

gangplank is a ranged champ change my mind

[@user-pt5sk3fh6g]

Would Kled count as poke or all in / long trade?

[@CoachRogue]

As mentioned in the video you can usually use the Keystone as a reference. Kled takes conqueror which is great in long fights, he also has multiple dashes so he can easily stick to an enemy and chase them down do for sure he's a long trade all in boi

[@Zjerox]

Would sett count as short trade or long trade? I always lost vs riven

[@CoachRogue]

You sort of have options for both like a lot of champions do. But you can probably imagine that conqueror combined with attack speed from his passive and Q makes for pretty good all-ins !

[@thepro1234567]

As said you can use the Keystone as a reference. But you can also look at your Champions ability cooldowns. For sett he has incredibly long cooldowns on his most impactful abilities in a fight (W and E), there for he prefers to take a short trade where he uses abilities and then wait for his CDs to be back up. And if you long trade against a champ like Riven, who has really low cooldowns, you are playing into her preferred playstyle where she can keep punishing you with conquere and abilities. So generally sett plays like a tank achetype in the early game you look for short trades with your abilities up, and when you become more unkillable later you can play more all in.

[@kaiser7437]

in what category urgot and jax fit?

[@colleiflower5995]

pedophiles

[@alex2005z]

Jax is all in. Especially with lethal tempo

[@even6978]

rythm

[@even6978]

algo

[@alex2005z]

If only TheShy watched this. Then he wouldnt have gotten solo killed by Wayward

[@miguelheredia4123]

Nice video. Do the same concepts apply to mid?

[@CoachRogue]

To a much lesser extent, you've got less space to stack waves AND will have a hard time getting anything at the enemies tower since you're central to the map and can get ganked from any side. Maybe the stuff about bouncing the wave as a melee mid laner works the same but for the most part in mid lane you handshake the lane post 6 and go for plays in side lanes