How Should TMs Work In Pokemon?

[@gummybread]

TMs should be unlimited because if I went to a store, bought a machine and it shattered in my hands after being used once, I would cry

[@kyleroots1444]

Same

[@Nethaura]

So much for being 'Technical' huh

[@SSNNPBCC]

Especially after you spent $60,000 on it

[@happypoop2362]

I always thought that the pokemon ate the TM so it made sense to me that it was single use

[@pxm2337]

Welcome to the real world.

[@kirbyhasn9047]

Reusable TMs are always better than one time use TMs no matter what. Change my mind.

[@dr.archaeopteryx5512]

In Many Romhacks, you get 99 TMs and can refresh them with an NPC. If you combined this system with being able to sell TMs, it would lead to an absurdly easy infinite money exploit.

[@pn2294]

Having one-use TMs makes you more thoughtful about your choices

[@EinSilverRose]

@@pn2294 No it doesn't

[@TroupeMasterXenon]

​@@pn2294 just to regret it and never be able to teach that move to any pokemon ever again

[@MaxEdrox]

If you can buy them, yes, if you can easily craft them, yes, but if they hard to find/craft, then no, that sucks

[@thebestworst8002]

Breakable TMs fall into the consumables paradox where you don’t want to use a consumable unless you have to but those scenarios never occur as the game is designed assuming you don’t have access to said consumables. They just don’t feel great using as they simultaneously feel like a waste yet make the game too easy

[@iantavares5640]

imo reusable TMs are the best way to go but since Game Freak decided to experiment with other ways I thing that the TM/TR system from Sword and Shield was my fav way to go

[@lilharm]

the TM companies took 5 generations to make their products durable enough to last more than a single use are we gonna let them backpedal their quality control?

[@EmeralBookwise]

Seems like exactly the kind of thing most modern corporations do. My parents still have the same microwave they bought back in the 80s, meanwhile my sister has never had one last more than 5 years.

[@pn2294]

The games corrected an error

[@lilharm]

@@pn2294 have some fun with your explanation

[@pn2294]

@@lilharm it ensured that not every Pokémon had Earthquake or Toxic

[@lilharm]

@@pn2294 🥱

[@Leeann-ys1jk]

In my opinion: I think there should be a balance. What I mean is make the store-bought TMs breakable that way the people who sold you those TMs actually still have a purpose after you beat the game and not become useless once you bought all TMs if they were unbreakable and if you already used said TM on one of your Pokémon, you can purchased another one from the Poké Mart or from Battle Facilities using your BP you earned from defeating NPCs. And while the TMs that you can find only one of from the ground or earned by a Gym Leader are unbreakable so you don’t have to worry about losing that one rare TM that you have just found on the ground and you will absolutely NOT have to create the TM from materials from Pokémon freeing up your days

[@danielcrud9345]

In my opinion, SwSh and ScV have both done good balance, albeit in opposing ways. SwSh made it so that only some broke, whereas ScV made it possible to stockpile a lot of them without much hassle. I do prefer ScV's way more though, as it is easier for the player to get the TM, at the cost of having to find out where to get the parts, plus all gym leaders give multiple TM's and the sheer abundance of them lying around.

[@mjm3091]

​@@danielcrud9345SV in my opinion just needs to sort the issue with the Poképarts storage and how obnoxious the notifications are specifically in that bag pocket. Either new parts should go to the top of the list or there should be a setting to turn off notifications about new items. And I do feel like the ground items need some rebalance, because there is way too much trash laying around.

[@লবণহানটারman]

infinite TM's are great and not having infinite is a crime

[@supremeking1730]

Multi-use TMs was one of the best decisions GameFreak ever made, both for the player's sake and, honestly, lore-wise if you ask me. Imagine you buy a workout video from Walmart or something, and it snaps in half after you watch it for the first time.

[@genarftheunfuni5227]

"Every TM is useless besides Surf and Fly" EXCUSE ME, I will not stand by Waterfall slander. It is THE physical Water move for 3 generations until Liquidation rolled around in Gen 7. It may not have the extra power of Aqua Tail, but it has perfect accuracy, and a flinch chance that may or may not cause a competitive expert rage quit a Gen 4 game and write a whole villain speech.

[@MEPlaysGames]

We’re talking about HMs exclusively from a playthrough perspective there. Waterfall is a great move (and so is Defog after the buff), don’t get us wrong, but if you’re playing through a game, you’ve already got a Surf user by the time you’re given the Waterfall HM

[@genarftheunfuni5227]

@@MEPlaysGames Yeah fair enough Besides, most water types were designed as special attackers, or at the very least had acceptable mixed stats like Feraligatr. There were only very few occasions a Pokémon would prefer Waterfall over Surf, like Gyarados or Kingler.

[@mjm3091]

Waterfall is a gen 1 move btw. one of the best ones since it's introduction

[@genarftheunfuni5227]

@@mjm3091 Waterfall was horrible in Gens 1-3 It was just a weaker clone of Surf, didn't even have the flinch chance. Gen 4 and onwards? Literally the best move you could give to Pokémon like Gyarados, Kabutops, Feraligatr or Crawdaunt if you wanna be careful with Crabhammer's accuracy.

[@mjm3091]

@genarftheunfuni5227 it's the only Water move Seaking gets, before HMs. It is far from horrible. It's a solid 80 damage move with full Accuracy - far from useless, especially in generations where huge chunk of the moves lacked Accuracy. Surf may be superior to some extend, but it's not something you have access across whole game. Gen 2 being probably the earliest you can get HM for it. Just because something is redundant, doesn't mean it's bad. Not to mention - it doesn't effect in a slightest that is has been a move since gen 1.

[@Nethaura]

EXTREMELY LOUD CORRECT BUZZER

[@absolutezerochill2700]

That's a ding, not a buzzer

[@banjito]

You're hired

[@lilharm]

slightly quiet incorrect buzzer

[@lilbonsly]

I liked how SWoSH did it with TM's as reusable but TR's as breakable and I feel like a good mix works

[@mjm3091]

SV in my opinion found perfect equilibrium, when it comes to keeping TMs available, but also limited by the grind. The only thing I wish they would change, would be swapping the Pokémon parts into like elemental shards or something. Or like limited them to just "feathers, wines, leaves, furs". The bag is extremely overcrowded, because of these and the fact that we have to scroll past the whole damn pocket to find a single new item to turn off the notification is the only downside to it all. Either simplify it, or make that specific pocket into an array/box, instead of a list. Next to the PokéBalls it's one of the things I wish we got Item Storage back for (I hate scrolling through all new/old balls, when I need to swap between PokéBalls, Timer Balls, Repeat Balls and Quick Balls).

[@Jayash357]

Depending on your state dmv you might be able to do it online and get a temporary one

[@COAagent]

"If it's not broke, break it and add a bunch of tedium as the solution"

[@bajanyaoikaizer6902]

Either be able to {re} purchase TM's in a mega store in the post-game for reasonable prices or let them be ♾use or you can recharge the TM's with walking/steps with relevance to its power {example: struggle bug at 200, signal beam at 340, bug buzz at 8000, earthquake at 120000} And HM's will be infinite use, but I think its high time we got Ice Breaker and Lava Flow

[@StarkidPhil]

Happy Revolution around the sun, Elias! EXTREMELY LOUD MELODIOUS FANFARE!

[@yourenbytemmieverse]

you should just be able to unlock permanent versions of tms in post game.

[@leonelalejandrovazquez3060]

Also remember TRs and TMs in Scarlet and Violet are added at the pokémon moveset forever (you can relearn them anytime or can be selected in Home if that move can be learnable by the mons species in the game you want to move it)

[@kayleighlehrman9566]

Honestly I think the way they did TMs in Scarlet and Violet is the best implementation. TMs are single use, but infinitely craftable.

[@justataco1776]

Nah, the way ScVi did them is really annoying You're basically forced to track down and take down tons of random wild mons just to get ONE TM, as opposed to just... Buying them. Or keeping them forever.

[@sapomen1352]

​@@justataco1776 i think If once you craft It for The First time you can get infinites on It It would be Fun tbh bcs Thered be The exploration n wouldnt be THAT grindy n annoying

[@PsychoticMuffinz]

If you had to craft them and then they were permanent use that'd be one thing, but having to go and hunt down and battle a bunch of Pokémon for multiple ingredients for *one* TM is really asinine.

[@Shinntoku]

​@@PsychoticMuffinz i mean, the game hands out materials like they're going out of style, it's *really* not that difficult to track down a few you're short on. Plus the game encourages you to use the Let's Go feature to gather them throughout your playthrough.

[@justataco1776]

@@Shinntoku The problem with the system is that it's a fix for a problem that didn't need fixing. Why are we being forced to scavenge for freaking Shinx fur when every other region just lets you buy TMs? Why does Paldea require blood sacrifices for CDs? If anything, ScVi's design makes them being infinite use a better idea. Making them a direct reward for exploration. Instead it's like "Congrats on finding this! Now go grind lol" Not helped by the fact that the resources you use for TMs are also Item Printer fuel, meaning most players will probably use them for that.

[@pandadan8870]

I feel like the best way to make the tm issue work is to keep them one use but allow the player to get more of them after you get a certain number of gym badges (lets say 7). This would probably be the best solution because then players cannot just get multiple powerful tms to blitz through the mid game of a playthrough/nuzlocke, but allow for flexibility afterwards for people who want to go into competitive or want certain moves for the elite 4 when they have already used the tm they first got. Also as a way to balance it, have it to where the player needs to first find the original copy of the tm before being able to buy it from the department store for example like in Scarlet/Violet.

[@bggamingdeluxe5658]

i feel so bad for anyone who loaded their very high level starter with HMs and couldn't find out how to get rid of them (i was one of those people)

[@Pika250]

It is technically possible to craft a heavy chunk of the Cram-o-Matic's logic (including TR's) using only berries you purchase from the berry grocer just outside the dojo. Four Cheri Berries for a TR88: Heat Crash (for unlimited cash)? You bet! Four Oran Berries for a Black Sludge? Try two Black Sludges and two grocer's berries for a Toxic Orb (or Flame Orb if a Cheri is in slot 1). And three Black Sludges and one Toxic/Flame Orb for a Wishing Piece. Items you pick up as sparkles in the overworld (honey and stardust/piece/comet shards especially) only serve to speed up the process. This is in fact the only logical way to get a Destiny Knot early in Galar without trading (or pickup ability).

[@EmeralBookwise]

I wouldn't mind limited use TM if there was at least always some way to get more of them, even if that option was restricted to post-game battle facility grinding so as to preserve the tactical gameplay of when and to which Pokémon to teach each move. Mostly there just always needs to be some way other than having to start a new game on a separate cartridge to trade them over.

[@vinny4765]

For competitive purposes I prefer unlimited. The last two gens have felt really bad for competitive on cart. I dislike having raids as upkeep too.

[@bulborb8756]

yeah gen 8's TM list was just very weird, all the TM's that didn't break where the mostly crappy moves, where as all the good ones where the ones that broke

[@wafflebroz]

Might be good if each time you acquire a TM you get a "Record" of it. Then have a place where you can turn your record into a one use TM for $$

[@stormbreaker_101]

HAPPY (belated) BIRTHDAY ELIAS

[@chrisjohnsen8448]

The main reason I feel GF went back on reusable TMs is because they didn't like sticking the best and most powerful ones behind the late/post game and felt like they needed to find some balance between letting players have the best moves and not letting them bowl over the whole game with only the best moves.

[@TheHerbySage]

I miss unbreakable TMs. Also happy late birthday Elias! I think you can renew your license if you do it online. Though I think you would have to renew it at least like 6 months before it expires? I can’t remember the specifics off the top of my head. But renewal is easy when you do it online. I renewed my California license in Texas cause I did it online. I hope this helps! I know it sucks waiting in the DMV line.

[@ScarletRebel96]

Merry Christmas Matt and Elias 😊

[@Planetballsfan]

I think the reason why they went back to single use TMs was in response to the complaints that people use to have. Back when they made TMs reusable for the first time people complained that they break the game.

[@diegotimon4570]

As long as the limitied use TMs are always available to buy/make them infintly and relaiably, I don't mind them breaking

[@ProyectoClippy]

B4 watching the video I liked the title and thought, which is better? Both have great uses I would prefer 200~ TMs with unlimited uses And have crafting (Tms-like) for eggmoves instead. The necessity of doing eggmoves the old way is outdated. So TMs for general moves and crafting/limited uses for egg-moves.

[@spiritwolf3103]

But with the mirror herb, egg move breeding is a thing of the past. Just remove a move or 2 and have mons with the eggs moves you want, open a picnic, and you're done. Honestly, while really tedious, breeding was fun. I can't recall the hours spent researching egg moves and carefully plotting out breeding paths for specific moves.

[@ProyectoClippy]

@spiritwolf3103 exactly If one item gets rid of an entire mechanic why not improvise on it? I.e. Charmander can learn Dragon Rush and Ancient Power through egg moves. Go to the crafting machine (now incubator, lets say) and it will tell you you can if bringing materials or an item, or something. These are breakable TMs that you can get multiples off that can be used on said charmander or saved for other pokémon. While Thunder, thunderbolt, protect - more general moves- are unbreakable TMs

[@robertlupa8273]

Happy Birthday, Elias! 🎂

[@thedailydoorman9524]

Best way to start the day is with a video from MEPlays

[@al_2331]

I do appreciate breakable TMs, it makes decisions on who gets it have so much weight especially in nuzlocke runs. I don't know how bad the crafting system is, I didn't play SV, maybe just make the TMs a drop from different pokemon, so there's still some work you have to do without having to hunt down 4 different pokemon

[@Your_LocalWizard]

Solution: introduce a move clause

[@yveshku5583]

I do absolutely prefer tms to just be unlimited use, but given the choice for anything breakable, definitely prefer how SV handled things. While you argued it was annoying not knowing what materials got used until you obtain them, I like it. Just one extra bit that actively encourages you to be going out and battling variety of Pokemon, and it was easy to just stash up on materials. Regarding Ditto goo and Plusle fur is just unfortunate oversight.

[@sergioramirezbelliard493]

Maybe TMs could be used 2-3 times before breaking. Perhaps there could be some shop in post game that sells permanent TMs while during the regular playthrough they are limited but not for a single use

[@CobaltCruiser]

Honestly I like the craft system they implemented in S/V. It makes the games feel more like an RPG and imo you should have to _work_ for TMs at least a little

[@ricardoesco8146]

Happy Bday Elias!

[@kevingreenley1765]

I like it both ways. On the one hand, I like the unbreakable ones because it makes it easier to build competitive Pokémon. I don't have to do lots of grinding for another earthquake tm. But I also like the breakable ones because it's a limited resource so you have to think carefully about how you want to use it. It's more fun for challenge runs like nuzlockes. I think it should be an option before you start the playthrough. Challenge mode or casual mode which will determine which tm's you get, and which exp. share you get.

[@Nok56]

Did you know the Hoenn region is one of the regions with the most wild Pokémon that have only one move? One of these Pokémon.... is CASCOON

[@goyangi4143]

Unlimited. This shouldn’t even be a question. There is literally no reason for TMs to be single-use.

[@blackdot105]

During a playthrough, I'd like them to be a 5 time use or something, but in the postgame, they become unlimited.

[@SheepStar8]

Imagine if a game company sold a video game disk only to install the game to your device and then it broke after doing this. So you had to buy the game again if you wanted to play it on any other device. Dystopia

[@rockowlgamer631]

Unlimited TMs and breakable TRs for a few reasons. 1) I don't have to waste time finding certain pokemon just to get their materials 2) I won't need to do constant raids to get LP points 3) they're unlimited and can be learned whenever Gen 8 has some advantages over gen 9 and this is one of them

[@PrincipalSkinner3190]

One time, games are already too easy.

[@insidious6068]

Honestly, TM's being single use isn't really an issue when you can just create legitimate Pokemon via 3rd party applications.

[@IskandrArchive]

I liked the craftable one use tr, it felt right to do some tms as quest rewards and that could be done also with a crafting recipe, but thdy need to rework their item and crafting system and make it more "type" relevant rather than specific pokemon.

[@michaelhodges8590]

I’d go unlimited But if they have to be single use, make it if you ever acquire a single instance of a TM you can purchase unlimited copies at the shops. Cause the single use paired with single instance arms are just needlessly limited

[@pokemonherogaming4669]

I haven't watched the video yet, but I hope they talk about how the TM/TR system was the best system

[@frisbo90]

I agree with you, reusable tms are a huge quality life, but from a game prospect I prefer tms as in scavio.

[@HoshitheLycanroc]

I think having some be infinite but others be single use is best.

[@gligarguy4010]

I think the way SV does is is for the best. As balanced as it gets. Pretty bad take on crafting btw. I expected better from Elias.

[@fullyactivated]

Moves shouldn’t be a limiting factor. I was trying to do battle tower in bdsp and it was so annoying. Infinite tm us is a quality of life improvement, we shopd never go back. I put it in the same category as poke center and pokemarts being separate.

[@Summonsloth]

Cascoon never forgets...

[@DanMoon-454]

It should be like SwSh: TR:permanent Low bad to mid moves bought in stores and found in easy access sites,like mega drain/flame charge->dazzling gleam/hex/stomping tanthrum TM:break when using,gained through gyms and hard access sites or expensive at shops but have the higher power moves like moonblast/earthquake/bug buzz/ice beam/close combat Or backwards: TMs are infinite but mid moves TRs are single use but have the power moves

[@iuxbaesuzystan]

Doesn't really matter if in SV (even in SS) that you can get multiple of one use only TMs by crafting/raid dens/watts etc. In past gens, like in gen 3 Sludge Bomb was a TM you only get once per save file in all gen 3 games.

[@futureDreamer4]

I wish they went back to the tm mechanic from gen 5. The SV tm mechanic is terrible.

[@Placeholder501]

My problem with TMs was that there wasn’t a way to get an infinite amount of them. Then they made them reusable. Which I loved. When they made SwSh TRs. I thought it sweet, if annoying a lot of the moves that were TMs were now TRS. BDSP TMs are what they should have done in the first place but since they didn’t not having reusable TMs feels bad. And BDSP has the problem of not being able to get any more of certain TMs. SV has it so you can get unlimited amounts of any TM which is good and exactly what I wanted but since they made TMs reusable before going back to one time use TMs feels weird.

[@DangerDurians]

In a world without vgc, i think limited use tms create an interesting choice for the player, and make a chosen pokemon more *special* Like magic items in any rpg, you might get one as a reward from defeating a boss, and give it to one party member, the analogy here would be an item that changes or buffs a combat action It makes the party member feel more special, gives them more weight even if they arent the bulkiest/hardest hitter But because in pokemon these are learnable techniques, not magic items, it doesnt really make sense for them to be so limited I like the sv system because it gives the option of flexibility, but doesnt make it feel "cheap," and kinda discourages morr "boring" cheese play

[@DaAxolotlBoi]

Happy late birthday Elias!

[@TheTSMBoi]

Let’s go had infinite/reusable TMs

[@johnnyhall9154]

I like the S&V system, you don't buy them, you craft them. I wish you coukd buy the "recipe", but I like having to grind a bit for it

[@hofvanroosmalen1205]

happy birthday elias

[@Mite141]

This is Why Pokemon Black and White are the best games of all time

[@DanielisAwesome52]

It was probably too much work to make TMs reusable in BDSP, it was most likely far easier to increase the number they give. Seems like they understand the problem so hopefully the next game just has the Gen V model.

[@ryza_hd]

I feel like having breakable but infinitely buyable/craftable tm's is fine. You're not gonna use half the ones you pick up anyways, so the least they could let us do is sell them 😅

[@completebuffoon]

Wake up babe, Matt and Elias posted

[@blumwashere]

me personally id just make tms reusable and just have a single use version for early game so you have to think "dang who do i want to give it to now?" and like idk buy reusable ones

[@oddsmile1234]

Infinite use TMs are best, finite use with reasonable renewability is 2nd infinite use with Finite TR that are stronger but harder to renew is third finite use without renewability is worst.

[@EinSilverRose]

Gen 5 perfected TMs but then GameFreak decided that was too good of a game design because it wasn't gimmicky enough and forced players to farm up material and money to make more in Gen 8 for some reason.

[@Zezlemet]

if they are one time use there *needs* to be a way to obtain copy's to avoid the problem of never using them because you know there's no way to get another

[@nightfrostbreeze]

I like shiny Cascoon. It looks like a Lum Berry.

[@Ziamyou]

Idk i sorta liked gen 9 tm's. I feel like perma tm's was a little OP, besides you arent going to use it 100 times, let alone even 20. the only moves that are that universal are protect for vgc players

[@tylerferguson3193]

Hope you're having a good day

[@LeviAuren]

They MUST be reusable in the postgame. I’m not playing VGC if I have to grind for the move protect or can’t have Earthquake in two different formats. In single-player, I like the concept of limiting resources. Pokemon can be balanced by giving weaker Pokemon stronger moves (gen 3, Raichu learns thunderbolt but Magneton and Manectric do not) and requiring tm expenditure to boost stronger Pokemon over the edge. I can enjoy limited use tms, but only if Pokemon is a designed, single player rpg. Currently, it is not. This tm debate is but a part of a larger debate on Pokemon as a sandbox (during the campaign) vs Pokemon as a designed rpg

[@HGNIR]

Best way is if my pokemon who already knows the move teach my other pokemon. that will make more sense, it's was my original idea but, i saw ash vs poul in ultimate journeys where ashs fire type pokemon teach gengar wilo-wisp . 😅

[@back_the_bone]

Anyone explain the Chansey/Starmie joke?

[@ubercow6611]

I sure do love me some Cascoon

[@WhiteRaven696]

They should absolutely be unlimited and it’s stupid that they’re not. Don’t even get me started on those stupid TR’s they introduced AFTER unlimited TM’s.

[@KuroiRenge]

Just do both like Sword and Shield or have them craftable like Scarlet and Violet. Problem sovled.

[@amurmurmur609]

So, your argument is that Tms should be unbreakable because that is easier and easier is better. By that logic, the pokemon professor should give you a full storage system of level 100 max stat, ev trained pokemon with 1000 unbreakable tms. I guarantee that every game is beatable without using a single tm. Easier isn’t always better. Problem solving and creativity and tenacity can all be fun. You lose something when you are spoon fed easy answers.

[@camdenzeigler6954]

You should be ok getting your license renewed

[@DanielPereira-ey9nt]

I don't fully agree with the conclusion of this video Infinitely reusable TMs are more convenient for competitive but are not perfect gameplay wise because they are just too powerful and so good moves need to be restricted to very late or post game in order to keep things balanced I think sword and shield did it the best as mediocre and decent moves were always available but the effort required to use the good ones made them balanced in a way where they could be available in the early and mid game without making the player effortlessly overpowered

[@MaidenOfAir]

I actually really liked the gen 8 and 9 systems for TMs. Needing to go hunt for watts/pokemon materials is a fun side quest that doesn’t take very long at all. Gives you a bit more to do in the game while building a team other than just tediously putting moves onto pokemon.

[@Dingus888]

I love Jrose11. I bet a lot of your viewers watch him too like I do

[@aared]

I generally don't like cheating in Pokemon games but infinite TMs was a staple cheat for me Actually making TMs infinitely usable leveled the playing field and made cheating less desirable

[@FallingArc]

HMs weren't terrible. I mean it rewards exploration and was more personal than the ride trash.

[@jackslaven-hahn2959]

Tms in gen 1 are a crime of nature Water gun is a tm Egg bomb is a tm Soft boiled is chansey’s signature move, and it’s a tm in the SAFARI ZONE. AND THERES ONLY ONE OF THEM PER GAME

[@Ze_Carrot]

Why did my favourite Pokémon channel run by 2 friends named matt and elias get political

[@nathanieljones8043]

? I have never heard of the sequel to the game that is pre installed on hos ps5 ?

[@HORSECONSUMER]

cascoon can learn iron defence amd the evolved guy vant

[@Forten3]

Cascun is great

[@Lobo-o_o]

Did this video change names???

[@MEPlaysGames]

Yeah, for a couple of reasons. There was a typo in the original title, and I was also going back and forth between two titles that I liked

[@Lobo-o_o]

@ ah

[@MagnezoneSH]

Why should I leave a comment about Cascoon, a Pokémon who does not learn any TM?

[@StillMemes]

Reusable TMs all the way

[@ashmander3465]

Definitely not like in gen 4- and gen 9

[@Achnid]

Hawk tuah

[@Johnny-Wilde-Productions]

Unlimated use. You already learned how to teach the move, so why make or find another to learn the same thing over and over again? The TM is for the trainer, not the Pokemon. It has all the written info to teach the move. How many mons can read human languages?