How small is too small of a log to mill on the sawmill?

Homesteaders don't like to waste anything, but when it comes to running the sawmill, is there such thing as too small of a log to mill?
In this video, we fire up the bandsaw sawmill to mill out some pine 2x4s for our barn and chicken hoop house project. I hate to waste any logs but there comes a point where a log is too small to mill effectively and safely.
Be sure to subscribe to our channel and support our efforts by giving us a thumbs up.
Follow us on facebook at / redtoolhousefarm
On Instagram at
/ redtoolhouse
Visit our website and be sure to sign up for our email newsletter so you will be up to speed on what goes on at our homestead. redtoolhouse.co...
If you would like to help Red Tool House Homestead maintain the expenses of running this channel, consider using our Amazon Affiliates link when you shop on Amazon.
Amazon Link: goo.gl/4fiaxX

[@CrossroadToCountry]

Small logs are great for 1x4 purlins. Well worth the time

[@sydmarty1]

It really depends on what you are doing with the wood. It's your wood, your mill, your time and it's going on your property. So it all depends on what you want to do.

[@johncware66]

Great practical video. Thanks for showing the way you get er done.

[@dougnorman464]

I've milled small logs by putting them on a bigger log and screwing them down. It took to people, watching the blade. It was a Black locust. The wood was made into a trophy Case.

[@gadgethunter5732]

You answered a few questions I had. Thx.

[@TERRORoftheLORD]

I had a friend that always told me "if I can get 2) 2x6's out of the log it goes on the mill. Anything smaller is firewood!"

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

or 2 x 4's duuuuuuhhhh!!!!

[@maceccollins1750]

I have a circular saw mill. My smallest diameter is 6" if the log is very straight. That small log will square up 4" X 4". It may have a little wane but it will cut out 2 - 2 X 4's or 1 - 2 X 4 and a 1 X 4. With the thinner kerf on this bandsaw mill, you should be able to do the same.

[@jimmclean4876]

Enjoy your videos have been following them for a few weeks now. Thank you and Happy New Year Mr. Troy and family

[@RedToolHouse]

Thanks for watching us!

[@lakeandtrailresale]

That is one neat machine

[@RedToolHouse]

It is fun to run!

[@irenetaylor1967]

Great video

[@jamesslough6465]

Interesting video. Thanks for posting. Best Wishes

[@hoffmanfamily_homestead2381]

Happy New Year! Congrats again on 20K well deserved!

[@RedToolHouse]

Thanks! HNY to you as well!

[@superbuddyfranklin]

Drinking game with this video, skoll a drink when he says wane and you will be feeling it in the last quarter.

[@davidthegrayman4688]

Thumbs up and Happy New Year

[@RedToolHouse]

Thanks, you too!

[@901pics]

Thanks for the video..few question for you. 1) how much does the blade cost to replace. 2) how soon can you use the wood for deer stands and shed making 3) what do you do with the cut waste

[@RedToolHouse]

Blades are about $25 each. I am putting wood up green (immediately after cutting) on outdoor projects like our barn, chicken coop, etc. You could do the same. The slabs that are hardwood get cut for firewood. The pine and poplar will possibly be shredded if I can rent a commercial chipper/shredder.

[@401john]

another great video, u showed how small the 29 will do, be great to see a video on how large the 29 will do, i cant get over a 23inch on mine, maybe i am missing something, hope u and ur family have a great year

[@RedToolHouse]

Rob, Yes, that is on the list to look into. I can see where the log dog crank handle will be the first thing to interfere with the carriage. I will talk to Norwood about it as well.

[@joemc111]

Happy new year Tory, I like to see your son running the mill. He is old enough and would help him build character. On the video he looks A little bored. Great video.

[@RedToolHouse]

He was not interested that day to be outside. He finished up his online college classes and wanted to be on his winter break. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do at RTH!

[@arnoldromppai5395]

@@RedToolHouse unload 1 2x4 x 8 at a time, walk 30 feet to pit it in the pile walk back 30 feet to pick up one more 2x4x8 and repeat and dad dont say nothing..

[@RedToolHouse]

He figured it out later. I was waiting to see if it would register...

[@arnoldromppai5395]

@@RedToolHouse haaa like that

[@AkDadStuff]

Good stuff . And Happy new year

[@RedToolHouse]

Thanks!

[@brettlumsden753]

Red, Love the vid's. I have the same mill less the trailer and extensions. Watching the videos, I noticed the sawdust ejection ports are plugging. What I did was to cut the center out and made a deflection chute, out of sheet metal, to aim the dust down. Just a suggestion.

[@RedToolHouse]

We cleaned it at the end. I had to do the same with my Lumbermate 2000 many years ago. Probably will make your same adjustment.

[@mattbarker7739]

Happy new years

[@RedToolHouse]

Thanks!

[@ontakesan1]

Happy New Year

[@RedToolHouse]

Thanks!

[@nathandettweiler9560]

The 2x4 that have to much wain could go back on 2 at a time and make a couple 1x4 ?

[@stevencroon]

I just purchased a 3rd log rest from Norwood like you mentioned and the problem is solved.

[@RedToolHouse]

Thinking of doing the same.

[@samgibson684]

I'm thinking of just getting the receivers so I can just move one over when I want to cut short stuff, definitely saving up for a resaw jig.

[@fabiancanada8876]

For wood from my own woodlot (free) I saw anything that can give me 2 pieces of 2"x4". If I were to buy logs or mill for someone else I would want most of the logs to be between 8-18" at the small end and 8'-12' long. That's with a Woodland Mills HM126. With a hydraulic Woodmizer I would go between 10"-22" at the small end and 8'-12' that should give you good production.

[@jbaker4900]

Would you consider a comparison video between your polaris and honda utv? From a homesteading point of view.

[@RedToolHouse]

I will consider it. May have to wait until I cool down from having the POS Polaris. I would like it to be somewhat objective!

[@Sam-wq3ws]

Happy new year

[@RedToolHouse]

Same to you!

[@timothybrawley7909]

Hey! I really like your videos. There's so much information available on the internet to learn from. I've been looking at sawmills and I haven't settled in on anything yet for my budget. I want to quarter saw some lumber for building guitars and mandolins, and just some lumber for myself. The problem I ran into is a saw with a deeper throat cut within my budget. 15 in or maybe 12 inches will do. If you have any ideas let me know. Thanks Tim from Yadkinville N.C.

[@bootmender]

When I grew up, my father would come home from a near by saw mill with all that scrap and uses it for barn gates / Feed trough. As my father would say what does a horse know when it comes to carpentry. I am going to have look up your geometric terms?

[@RedToolHouse]

Yes, my pigs aren't too particular what boards they go busting through...

[@davidkirkman2223]

On my lm29 I will cut to about 6" diameter but only 1" slabs for siding.

[@RedToolHouse]

I would like to see pictures of that (how you use it for siding)

[@davidkirkman2223]

Norwood,s item number is 41270-mk2. Lap siding & shingle making package. On smaller logs I shim so both ends are at same height for first cut ,then turn cut side down and slab for 1" horizontal siding

[@chuckb.3324]

You might try adding an eighth of an inch for the kerf. I run a 19 gauge blade set to 100 thousands of an inch. The blade is actually .042 thick. One eighth is 125 thousands so you are 25 thousands strong of the target size and you will loose a little more to shrinkage. This puts you in a good spot if you run out of lumber and have to buy some. Nominal lumber losses half an inch up to six inches and three quarters of an inch over six inches. A 2x6 is actually 1.5x5.5. A 2x10 is actually 1.5 x9.25. So a one eighth kerf addition brings you very close to mass market lumber. You can draw yourself a little chart until you memorize the numbers. 1,5/8 3,1/4 4,7/8 6,1/2 and so on for thickness. 2x4 width is 3,5/8 then 7,1/4 then 10,7/8. 2x6 will be 5,5/8 then 11,1/4. And no log is too small as long as you can hold it on there. When someone gives you a 18 inch long chunk of Birdseye maple two feet in diameter you will figure out a way to get it cut. Have fun and put on some protective gear in your next video please. Eyes and ears need protection around the mill.

[@RedToolHouse]

Good info! Thanks.

[@AndrewBrowner]

i know they make circsaw attachments for the mills that debark the area infront of the blade before it cuts it but those are probably pricey and complex, wonder how much either a stream of air or water at the bark right where the blade is going to pass would help, could have it attached to the mill and a switch or valve to turn it on for the first 4 cuts and off afterwards, a decent pressure washer with the right tip might be able to strip the bark off before the blade touches it

[@davidj.mackinney6568]

Happy New Year. Can you get your mill blade sharpened?

[@RedToolHouse]

Absolutely. I can send them out to have them professionally sharpened or I can ask my brother who has a sharpener and has become quite skilled at sharpening the blades. He is 20 minutes from me.

[@pineforest7528]

Are those logs Virginia pine? (Maybe you said what they were, but I don't have sound on my computer.) They look like Virginia pine, which I've found makes fairly decent lumber despite the poor reputation.

[@RedToolHouse]

Yes, Va pine. They have worked quite well for tough projects. Our farrowing bar is sided in it and the main support posts of the barn too

[@vidili68]

Hi there Good information happy New Year Fence post 4,4 4,6 or8,8 Have a good day All good stuff See you next time 👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@RedToolHouse]

I wouldn't put pine in the ground due to it rotting so quickly but it could have been a post in the barn above ground.

[@hilltopmachineworks2131]

Since I am not a wood guy why does the bark dull the blade faster? Is because there is dirt and debris in it?

[@RedToolHouse]

Yes and it is harder generally.

[@pineforest7528]

I don't have my own mill but hire a wizard with a Woodmizer. When cutting logs I generally use 10" on the small end as the minimum practical size. I might use a slightly smaller log if it has highly desirable characteristics. Remember that 2 x 4s don't always have to be exactly 2 x 4. You can go with the trade size (1 1/2 x 3 1/2) and still have a very usable "2 x 4." So, you can still get a reasonable number of "trade size" 2 x 4s out of a small log.

[@pineforest7528]

(Even though it will shrink some; still great for your own use and I use lumber constantly on my farm.)

[@kenjett2434]

Happy New Year Troy and Family a suggestion on that last small log instead of try to get the most wood. Try going for the best product. If you had slabed it to dimension for 2 2×4's you would got 2 clean 2x with 5 cuts. With todays prices on 2×4s it would be worth it. But that is at the lowest limit of what is sawable for value. If you cant get 2 clean 2x4 it isnt worth sawing. Just my experience as a sawyer, of course i never sawed on a band mill just a circle mill.

[@julier1080]

I’ve had both, on a circle mill I might cut them, because sharpening is cheap and easy. I would have gotten 2 2x4s and 1 or 2 1” trim boards. The other thing not considered here is rough sawn lumber needs to be full dimension to have the same strength as 1 1/2” kiln dried. The “2x4s” he sawed can not correctly be used as structural lumber, but would be fine for non load bearing use.

[@kenjett2434]

@@julier1080 although what your talking about is theoretically possible its not cost effective especially on a band mill. As for structural comments are totally irrelevant in this as this is simple farm lumber not store bought graded structural lumber to be used under coded building.

[@RedToolHouse]

I have never run a circular mill, but I assume blade kerf makes smaller logs even less profitable?

[@julier1080]

Codes exist for a reason. Farm lumber doesn’t need to be as strong? Why would anyone buy a 2x4 from me if it’s not as good as one from the store? @red toolhouse- yes, circular kerf wastes 1/4” more than band, but my point was about wear, as most people don’t sharpen their own bands.

[@kenjett2434]

@@RedToolHouse your right it does but i do know blade sharpness is a bigger issue on bandmills so number of cuts is a factor. Thats why on smaller logs it may be better to determine what product it will make versus how much wood you can recover. Often like in case of last log here you could recover 2 valuable 2x4 instead of the odd size beam. With only one extra cut just by taking the extra wood of with the slab. On small logs trying to salvage every ounce of wood isnt cost effective just go straight to what is of value put rest into the slab.

[@bamadave1983]

I have personally cut them as small as 5.5 in on small end x 7' long to make 4x4 on a cook's 36" you can put a longer 4x4 behind it that will allow you to mill short of logs on you mill

[@stevencroon]

If I can get a 4x4 out of a log without too many knots, that's a sellable piece of wood!

[@baconmanx9]

what engine did you choose on your norwood? been looking at one for a while, have you had any issues?

[@waynedelong7418]

I keep seeing different information on the size of the 2x4. I saw you talking about cutting them to 1 1/2 x 3 1/2 like the big box stores. I have seen other people say that you cut it to 2x4 and it shrinks when dried to 1 1/2 to 3 1/2. Which is True? I'm building a sawmill right now so I've been watching a lot of videos. Really been getting a lot of information from yours. Thanks

[@RedToolHouse]

The big mills actually cut to 2x4 true. Once it is dried and surfaced, however, they end up with 1.5 x 3.5. I sometimes mill 1.5 x 3.5 but don't surface. I lose about 1/8 inch in shrinkage.

[@waynedelong7418]

@@RedToolHouse That was the a great answer and exactly the info I was looking for. I'm wanted to cut rough lumber for a shop. I appreciate all the info your putting out.

[@DEVUNK88]

I mill down to about 8" diameter, I batons and 1x4 trim usaully just fine, I've been milling a ton of thin siding for some outbuilding out of 10 inch logs all week, I'm also not looking for top quality, its just rough building lumber and siding on non essential buildings

[@tomharner83]

For the shorter logs, attach a 2x4 or 2x6 to make a fence that the log can be clamped to...

[@RedToolHouse]

We show that in our very next video!

[@tomharner83]

@@RedToolHouse Ah, I'm not caught up from the holidays quite yet... Carry on then.

[@johndoe-zk1yu]

a 5x5 post is better than wasting the wood. And you were getting near a blade change. you could make 1x3 as well or 1x5

[@scottjenkins4613]

Make a bunch of 1x1 or 3/4x3/4 stickers for stacking lumber to dry.

[@RedToolHouse]

Yes! We are doing that with the sacrifice boards.

[@larrymbouche]

Using the mathematics of geometry, getting the largest square can't that will fit inside of the round log end shape. You lose 30% each direction, vertical and horizontal leaving 70% of the log diameter. You lose 15% each side, top and bottom, then 15% on each side, left and right. Example : a 10" diameter log first cut down from top, 10% is 1" and half of that is 5%= 1/2", for a total of 1 1/2" = 15%. Down from top for first cut. Easy head calculation for any diameter log. 20" log = 10% is 2", and 5% is 1" (half) total of 3", for first cut down from top edge. 10" - 11" log at small end is barely viable. Depends on how hungry you are. A 10" log diameter leaves barely a 7" can't. The 45° diagonal of the square is the usable diameter of the log, less bark and Cambria, white pith wood. So... go for whatever is practical. But the smaller logs will eat up blades, time, and labor.

[@bertweston5168]

I have no sawmill experience. Couldn’t you have turned the “wane” to the bottom then made good boards down to the bad wane?

[@RedToolHouse]

In this instance, yes, that would have worked since the last two boards weren't 1.5 thick. In hindsight, that would have been the better move. If the scale balances out, then it wouldn't have mattered.

[@marknussbaum8394]

Everybody has their own point where they decide a small log isn't worth it. I cut red oak, white oak, walnut, and black cherry mostly. I don't cut log when the small end is less than 10", ever. (I get really grumpy when cutting less than about 12" on the small end because the amount of lumber cut per hour on small logs is pretty darned low. And, I get way less lumber per sharpened blade when milling small lumber. My two cents.

[@RedToolHouse]

Great input. I would not have milled that last log or even the second to last log if it weren't for the video subject. I especially wouldn't mess with it since it is pine and I have about 1000 I want to remove from the land. It was interesting to see what I could get out of it even if it dulled a blade prematurely.

[@julier1080]

Dang Mark, I’d saw those hardwoods right down to a 6” log if I could get them here (Alaska)! That stuff goes for crazy money because there is none and shipping is a killer. Everything is relative huh?

[@vonRow]

For my band mill, if it's too short or too skinny to safely secure then it's too small to mill. That breaks down to something under 3 feet long, or smaller than 5 inches in diameter.

[@RedToolHouse]

Good rule to operate by. A loose log can tear up way more than it would ever be worth.

[@julier1080]

Yeah when they move, the blade generally breaks, and it’s usually a new blade 🙄. Because I occasionally do creative stuff, like saw burls in half or cut odd shapes for myself or other woodworkers, I made a jig out of 3/4” plywood that straps to the bed, and has dogs to secure the ends of the wood I’m sawing. The dogs are on steel plates that I can screw into the plywood to be able to adjust for length and/or odd shapes. So far so good.

[@RedToolHouse]

Would love to see a video of that setup!

[@makapalatrace8385]

Why not quarter the log? Why remove the bark? Are these for sale?

[@RedToolHouse]

We are not reselling the lumber. It will be used on the farm. We are milling dimensional lumber for building projects, that is why we remove the bark.

[@andilantryy13]

Saya ingin membeli tapi tdk tahu caranya apakah suda ada di indonesia?

[@DEVUNK88]

diameter x .7 = square cant dimensions 10 inch diameter x .7 = 7x7 cant

[@thefirewooddoctor]

Maximum cant size is 75% of the diameter of the log on the small end.

[@RedToolHouse]

I have never heard this before but I love it! So, using that formula, if I have a 10 inch diameter log on the small end, I should expect a 7.5 inch cant?

[@thefirewooddoctor]

@@RedToolHouse correct.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

Those small logs are worth it IF you calculate your cuts and you only need 4 cuts to get your cant size, on a 5 1/2 " sq cant you could get 3 1 1/2 x 5 1/2 (2x6) with 7 cuts. and the slabs you cut off are firewood, and wood that burns is fire wood, out west a lot of pine and fir are used for firewood, and IF you like hardwood firewood just mix the pine in with it. what else is there to do with it, burn it out in the yard ???

[@arnoldromppai5395]

you should have a metal frame to stack the slabs in a 4"x4" bundle and strap it together when its full and sell the bundles, here the demand is huge, for fire wood and other needs, pine they charge $40, birch $50 tamarack 50,, we dont have any ock here but bitch is number one fire wood but i like the black ash, you life the bundle out with fork stuck though the bundle and same to load it on to customers truck or trailer

[@RedToolHouse]

Here in the Appalachian Hardwood forest, I would get beat like a drum for trying to sell pine for firewood! Most people refuse poplar too! We are spoiled with our excessive oak, hickory, and maple!

[@arnoldromppai5395]

@@RedToolHouse poplar is a hard wood and burn hot even green an clean, i would say your all spoiled, we dont have oak, hickory, and maple here, and not going to buy a 1x4x8 of it for $25 bf for fire wood, but on the other hand know one will buy lumber cut from poplar, it go for pulp and fire wood and USA TRUCKERS BUY UP ALL THE BIG LOGS FOR FURNICHER LUMBER an take it to the usa

[@RedToolHouse]

Nobody burns poplar here because it burns to quickly. It is clean to burn but nobody will buy it or use it for fuel. I like it for camp fires because it puts off more light.

[@arnoldromppai5395]

@@RedToolHouse i burn a lot of it as my land is mostly poplar, spruce and Jake pine, porcupines kill off the Jake pine

[@julier1080]

Why is heartwood worse than sapwood? Never heard that before. Definitely not when it comes to woodworking! @6:25 you mention 4 cuts thru the bark, but when squaring a log only 2 cuts are thru the bark if the 2nd cut is 180 degrees to the first.

[@RedToolHouse]

The core/heart is the weakest not heartwood. I should have been more specific. As for the cuts, unless you have a perfectly round log you will get into bark on each cut or risk wasting a good bit of the log.

[@julier1080]

To a point yes, but if you turn the log 90 degrees as shown here, you get full bark on 3 cuts, whereas if you turn it 180 degrees for the second cut, the third cut will often have much less bark. And as you say, depends on size and shape of the log too.

[@RedToolHouse]

I have to say, I have never turned 180 for second cut. Never thought about it. I am going to try that on my next log. I can see some positives and negatives but I will give it a try. When you mill hardwood, do you try to saw out the core or at least jack up the log so the core stay parallel to the cut?

[@kenjett2434]

@@RedToolHouse depends on the log Troy on good quality log yes usually use a toe board or if there is an excessive amount of taper in the log. Orherwise its not worth the extra time it takes at least on a manual mill with a hydraulic toe board its a quick easy adjustment. As for the turning 180 they are a few times that can help but in most cases even with 180 to avoid bark your going to have more waist come off with thicker flitches.

[@RedToolHouse]

When I had my old mill (LumberMate 2000) we welded up a bracket on a bottle jack to lift the tapered end. We would use it on more coveted varieties like walnut and cherry. I wouldn't mess with it with any other. I have a big red oak to mill so I might make a video about that. Would love your opinion on milling stressed wood. Here in WV where trees grow on the side of the mountain we find the denser grain on the uphill side of the log. I have mill some where the boards start to lift off the cant before I am even done milling through it. Crazy.

[@royramey5659]

What i do is put a long 2x6 against the fence and put the log against it and dog it with one dog in the middle of the log.

[@RedToolHouse]

We did the same on the next video!

[@erwinbrubacker7488]

Dia more critical vs length, my opinion.

[@r.m.8374]

Why was this tree felled. ?

[@RedToolHouse]

Creating silvopasture in areas of our 100 acres

[@tomsawyer247]

I think they could lift it but wanted to drive tractor instead

[@shannonswyatt]

Everyone needs a tractor boy.

[@RedToolHouse]

No doubt!

[@TheFrogfeeder]

That one 2x4 that you say has a lot of Wayne, that’s not Wayne that called rustic, you charge extra for that…

[@YuriyKhovansky]

This time I will do it manually with the help of woodglut designs.

[@horizon2667]

I don't know why it always Wayne's on me... When it Wayne's... It pours.....

[@briankleinschmidt3664]

Make them kids do their push-ups. I can't use a weakling at the lumber mill.

[@OldBillOverHill]

The only answer is, any size big enough to be milled, DUH.

[@whatup123]

If you flip your cant over you would have less waste

[@whatup123]

Great job

[@smity7096]

Lol dude you can't pick up the big end of a log and expect your wife to pick up the small end. Shes lifting it all at that point! Let her pick up her end first. I bet she could and you couldn't lift your end! Test it out I could be wrong.

[@johnqcitizen9177]

Sorry I have yo unsubscribe to your channel for the second time. 8 minutes of talking before you even turned on the mill. YOU TALK to MUCH

[@RedToolHouse]

Ha, my wife says the same thing (she unsubscribed too). Feel free to fast forward to the exciting parts or what at 2X speed. I do that with some of the channels from the deep south (they talk slow).

[@tealkerberus748]

Red Tool House - Homestead not bothered by how long you talk so long as it's interesting and relevant, which it is. Anyone who objects should sit through a few university lectures - the ability to talk on topic for an hour uninterrupted is a job requirement there!