How strong is your lure through wire

[@andyroo2232]

Incredibly useful information you have here! I'm very surprised by the results with the annealed wire as my impression was "if it's easier to work with, it's not as strong" but after your explanation of the stainless wraps not digging into the standing wire, it all was very clear. Thanks for doing the research I, and I'm sure others would love to do, but just don't have the tools to do it.

[@EngineeredAngler]

Your right about annealed wire it tends to lose anywhere from 10% to 40% of the strength compared to hardened or even slightly cold worked steel. What we were actually checking was how well the coils hold and what we found is that being able to form tight coils was the key (I did not know that going in). I'll be testing welding wire (slightly annealed) to see if there is an optimum wire for through wire designs...and I'll share the results.

[@santoshkamble5269]

Thanks for taking the efforts! One thing would like to Add is, while testing, put it in a lure. That way the epoxy and the lure material would give proper results

[@pakde8002]

I use two types of wire, here in Indonesia, one labeled soft stainless steel and the other hard stainless steel. Not sure if annealed wire is the same as soft stainless or the type of wire sold as bonsai forming wire. I had deformation of eyes on dropped lures or lures that hit rocks with the soft wire so I'm primarily using the hard SS wire in 1mm and 1.2mm. However, I don't use barrel wraps, either thru wire or diy screw eyes anymore after coming up with a system that keeps all bends in the wire fairly open and smooth, which I'm assuming means less stress on the wire. My system relies on a locking pin perpendicular to the wire. I was using pins cut from 1.2mm SS wire but now I'm experimenting with stainless steel screws used in computer boards. The hole for the pin and wire are filled with two part epoxy, which is a little cumbersome to work with and slower than fast setting plastic steel types but I feel that using regular two part epoxy forms a composite system that is literally impossible to fail under the most extreme fishing situations unless the entire lure explodes. I live for that fish.

[@EngineeredAngler]

That sounds like a thoroughly designed system. You really have to go the extra steps to protect against those giants you guys fish for. Yes it sounds like the soft wire you use is annealed stainless. Thanks for sharing. Cheers.

[@rickfreeda5845]

Great video helps me a lot as a new wood lure maker👍

[@EngineeredAngler]

Great to hear!

[@digitallureworks7297]

I’ve set up a test bed using an old trailer winch mounted to a board. You can slowly crank to failure point. I wanted 200 lb capacity for for the test gear. I’m using 200lb class swivels, snaps and braid to attach to whatever is being tested. I want to test feasibility of using those figure 8 hook hangers for belly hook in a wooden CNC cut lure. Interestingly the 200 lb braid is a weak point breaking around 95lbs so I can’t use it in the test bed for attaching lure. Given this, I think I’m going to call 80lbs ‘strong enough’. I’m seeing a generality that braid fails at around 45-50% rated load in these tests.

[@EngineeredAngler]

A knot can really reduce the strength.

[@RevampedOutdoors]

Great testing, that hardware store hanging wire looks pretty legit. It kind of makes me rethink things a bit. Definitely more affordable!

[@EngineeredAngler]

No kidding, big price break. And you can find slightly heavier gauge that'll get you up your 200 lb dot-dot-dot if you need it. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment

[@bwanadon1359]

Wow. Didn't expect that. Great experiment.

[@rider660r]

I know of some who use Stainless Steel mig wire in .030,.035, and .045,how about a comparison between that and other wires of the same dia. They can buy it in 1,2 and I think 10lb spools and is cheaper.

[@ncsinkers]

Thank you for taking the time to put together such an informative video. You just saved me so much time and performed the study with much better equipment than I would have been able to rig up. I will get in line with the others on interesting to see, but I am definitely curious how a haywire twist before barrel wraps will impact the stainless steel load tests. Thanks again for everything you are sharing!

[@EngineeredAngler]

I'm really curious too...I even ordered a haywire twist tool to make the test more legit....stay tuned.

[@ntlineman]

You should have tried 1 wrap at both top and bottom, I presume that the more wraps you have the greater chance of failure due to stretching while wrapping

[@Ricmcc]

Great test

[@EngineeredAngler]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@mvzdober]

excelente!!!! me gusta mucho como manejas los temas con buenos procedimientos de experimentacion. muy util la informacion.

[@EngineeredAngler]

Gracias, estoy feliz que te haya gustado.

[@billsutherland2128]

This is very helpful data, and you have a real knack for teaching. Have you figured out how to approach 174 lbs. breaking strength with the SS wire? Maybe brazing or silver soldering would do the trick? Thank you for the great videos and topics. I’m a robotics engineer and a professor of mathematics, statistics, data base management & design, and data mining. Love math! It’s very refreshing to see a colleague teaching the math, physics, and chemistry of a fun topic such as fishing. There are enough “Bubbas” acting like children, trying to get there Momma’s attention on KZbin. Keep up the great work!

[@EngineeredAngler]

Actually the fix for the 174 lb leader is very simple, just add what it was missing (friction) by saturating the coils with with super glue. This nearly doubles the strength. It's a bit tricky to solder, especially silver solder, because the heat tends to anneal the wire, making it too soft. Thank you for your words of encouragement. I have to approach these subjects in ways that won't alienate folks and will seem worth the trouble. So there are definitely some over simplifications of complex topics but, in the end, it has to be fun to do...cheers.

[@bowdenja]

Great Video.........Being mostly a freshwater fisherman, stainless will suffice for me. I too was surprised at not being able to reach the listed breaking point of the stainless leader material and I too suspect that it's because of the hardness and springy of the steel itself. So I guess the haywire twist is something every saltwater fisherman should be using..............although it won't work for lures, I guess.

[@EngineeredAngler]

Funny you bring up the haywire twist. It was the first thing I thought of when I saw the results. Honestly makes me want to call BS on the need for the Haywire Twist before the barrel twist. This calls for more testing

[@bowdenja]

@@EngineeredAngler yeah I'd like to see if the haywire twist make the stainless leader loop hold better and increases the unraveling strength.........sounds like a future video in the works.. :-)

[@n6yun]

I believe your results will change dramatically if you use it in water this way the heat buildup from stretching the wire will not break as soon and the fact that you were bending wire will weaken the wire

[@EngineeredAngler]

Materials failure is an interesting topic and one that I have had a lot of experience studying. It's easy to misunderstand what causes the heat during the failure of a metal. The heat generated during material failure is caused by friction and friction heat needs movement. The movement cannot occur until the wire fails so the heat comes after The Wire fails and therefore can't cause or add to the failure.

[@genedavis759]

Stainless steel work hardens . It gets tougher after it gets heated . Try wrapping it then heating it . Then testing for strength .

[@wasntPete]

Thanks for the video, I use stainless safety wire ,the type used on jets and racing cars which is annealed stainless wire if you can or wish to could you do a test on this I think it would be up there with the standard annealed wire. Once again thank you and the macro shot of the wire was very important to show the problem with hardened wire.

[@EngineeredAngler]

Thank you. ..and thanks for sharing what you like to use. ..ill be expanding my tests to include some different wire soon.

[@502deth]

i know im 4 years late catching this one, but i would guess, since the annealed wire is hardware wire, its probably rated like rope. 25lb is the "working load" and the breaking strength is about 4-5x higher.

[@alanscustomlures9922]

Cool video , you should do this with 308L stainless wire 1/16. Most lures builders like myself all up on the east coast uses it for their build. Would be interested to see what you would come up with

[@EngineeredAngler]

I'm looking into doing those kinds of tests on heavier wire. Since I don't really build lures with such heavy Hardware I don't have it in my normal shop inventory. I'm going to have to look around to see if I can find some. But stick around there's going to be more materials testing. And thank you for your coming.

[@HHH-nv9xb]

Since your test with twisted wire with epoxy showed that it is go for about 150 lb, why use through wire for the lures where usually will have at least one wire wrap at one of the ends? Thank you so much for these tests!

[@EngineeredAngler]

I don't think through wire is needed in most lures.

[@codrutmaestru]

Your vids are great, Thanks, i use stainless steel wire for my lures.

[@EngineeredAngler]

Thanks for watching and for the encouragement

[@minkyutekken]

강의 감사합니다 최고 ❤❤❤❤❤

[@danomite359]

Can't help but notice that wire usually broke when you bumped the switch. The sudden inertia!

[@EngineeredAngler]

Not really.

[@danomite359]

@@EngineeredAngler - You're the one there, so you'd know. :)

[@DanEvan]

Great video. I’d love to see those tests performed with the 2.4mm 316 stainless I use for my bluefin tuna stickbaits and poppers....and I’d like to see the difference between the barrel wraps and a wire crimp

[@EngineeredAngler]

Wow! That's around 500 lb strength wire....what kind of line are you using. Seems like a bit overkill but I'm not a tuna angler...

[@DanEvan]

Engineered Angler So typically I’ll run Jerry Brown 100lb hollow core with a 130lb wind on leader for Cape Cod BFT fishing.....2.4mm is overkill for sure (and a complete pain in the ass to work with) but because modern spinning gear has become extremely powerful (Reels putting out 66lbs of drag, extremely powerful rods etc.) guys are now targeting tuna over 300lbs. Not only that, but the main reason I switched to the 2.4mm was the guys that are fishing for Giant Trevally and Dogtooth tuna. They’re using 140lb main line with up to 300lb specialized momoi Xhard mono leaders made for 1000lb billfish due to the terrain in which they fish and the style of which they MUST fish if they want to land these 100+ pound GTs....and that’s 40+ pounds of drag from the start to stop them from breaking you off. I’ve seen 1.6, and even 2 mm wire get completely pretzeled and ripped to shreds, 400lb split rings opened, the biggest & baddest hooks mutilated etc. If you want to truly see overkill check out this link below. These are Siren lures made by Jason Ward, a friend of mine, and they’ve got what is probably the most sophisticated, and ridiculously heavy duty wire harnesses on the market. His lures have landed some of the baddest fish on the planet and I’ve never seen one even close to showing any signs of failure. facebook.com/SirenLures/photos/a.191636317598118/1186302758131464/?type=3

[@EngineeredAngler]

@@DanEvan Thank looks amazing ...you guys are fishing in a different universe. Pairing running rigging with terminal tackle is a matter of experience and instinct. I take my hat of to-ya.

[@mohamedalialzaabi5630]

This demonstration was very useful to me as im new into lure making. I appreciate your time to do it. Im just wondering what is the best through wire size and type. Can you please give me a link where i can buy a decent quantity so i dont have to order again and again. FYI. Im from overseas thats why im looking for something like two or three of that pack you where holding in the video about the annealed wire. Thanks

[@EngineeredAngler]

Glad it was helpful! I don't have an online source for the wire since I buy it locally.

[@thatsmallrockshop]

Is the coil pinching tight and perhaps compressing the wire inside the wrap. Similar to a improved fishermans knot.

[@EngineeredAngler]

Yes, that's exactly what I think is happening.

[@cgmejia]

thanks for the great video! I'm just learning with a goal to make 3D printed lures. I'm wondering if I could use a spool of wire that I have or if i should purchase something different. The label says; "0.041" STAINLESS STEEL LOCK WIRE. T-304 stainless steel is designed to resist rust and corrosion in harsh Marine environments. easy to shape and form-ideal for jewelry and hobbies." Does this sound ok to use?

[@EngineeredAngler]

That kind of wire is usually too easy to bend and if you want nice straight sections in your wire, you probably wont get it. But if you're just making twist eyes and internal wire, the wire you have will work fine.

[@Raul28153]

is there some reason you don't use plumbing solder? It's got enormous shear strength. Probably can skip the wraps entirely and just fold back onto itself and solder.

[@EngineeredAngler]

Not a bad idea but making a good solder joint is a bit harder than twisting wire.

[@Raul28153]

@@EngineeredAngler Maybe it's just because I've resorted to soldering things so much that it seems second nature to me. it's a marvelous way to join things

[@adrickvelasco570]

I'd like to see this test with the stainless again but with a haywire twist instead of only barrel wraps

[@EngineeredAngler]

Here you go...kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJaxp6GJd5ypg80

[@EngineeredAngler]

You should check out the play lists

[@adrickvelasco570]

Oops, cool!

[@stevenreep385]

Again thanks for the info. I love all of it

[@TrevorF03]

Wow interesting results indeed. I wonder what stainless steel rig welding rod wire is rated for? Good work

[@EngineeredAngler]

Most stainless steel welding wire is 316 that means it's about 70,000 to 75000 psi strength so if you want to know how strong your wire is, you just have to calculate the end area of your Wire by multiplying pi times the radius squared. Then just multiply that times 70000. But remember from the video that you're only going to get about half that strength with Barrel coil eyes. Thanks for watching

[@TrevorF03]

Engineered Angler interesting. I don’t know much about how the wire is constructed. The one I use is .062” 308. Not sure what the 308 means. The way I tend to make lures puts the turns in the wood with epoxy. Not to worried about strength. Just curious! Thanks.

[@EngineeredAngler]

@@TrevorF03 The 308 stainless will get you a little higher strength (75 to 80 Ksi) but I would use 75 to be conservative. If its welding wire it is lightly cold worked that means it will fall somewhere in between the two type wires I used in the video. So actually your wire tensile strength is somewhere around 225 lb. That means that you can probably count on about 120lb of holding strength with barrel wrap eyes.

[@smartiesubunk2thnubuts397]

#engineeredangler, Just beginning to research Lure making however, all of the clips I have watched do not speak of the 'diameter' of the wire that should be used. Can you advise please or do a video to walk us through it? TX

[@EngineeredAngler]

I always mention the size of the wires I'm using for my lures. The size of the wire that you should use is going to depend on the size of the lure and the fish you're after. But a common size that is plenty strong and easy to work is 0.030 inch diameter stainless.

[@jorgecarcao1270]

I wonder if it would make sense to anneal hard stainless wire were you are making the barrel wraps (ie heat the ends). The ends will be dead soft this way and your new system will be stronger?

[@EngineeredAngler]

Like most everything an improvement in one direction often means a compromise in another. Annealing the wire end will certainly mean you'll have higher friction on your Barrel wraps. But you compromise stiffness of the wire and that means you're relying only on friction and the wire wraps will more readily come out. I prefer to wrap the wire and add a little glue. Of course, it doesn't hurt to give it a shot, you might come up with just the right combination.

[@theRussianJiu]

I'm wondering if you had lightly sanded the leader line that it would have not slipped out. Hmm

[@EngineeredAngler]

If the twists were haywire style your idea would , at the very least, increase the friction and the load to overcome it would go up a bit. But, since the problem with this type of coil winding is that it doesn't really pinch tight against the main wire, sanding would probably not make a difference. Good thinking though!

[@feelthewyrd]

why would you expect the stainless steel to be as strong as the annealed? its a much lesser diameter. 0.027 vs 0.046. Taking that into account the stainless is stronger than the annealed per given diameter. In fact the more twists on the annealed creates greater grip on the wire and it breaks within the coils. ie more twists on annealed creates a tighter squeeze and a weak point? The stainless steel by comparison unwinds rather than pinch.

[@EngineeredAngler]

True...different failure modes make it very difficult to predict max failure load. So a wire that has a lower tensile strength but fails through rupture might be better than a much stronger wire that fails through deformation.

[@feelthewyrd]

@@EngineeredAngler yes... or exactly the opposite in the case you studied. the deformation case is difficult to stop i guess. (is twisting stronger than coiing?) The pinch case might be made stronger using an insert under the coils?

[@Cardboard-boxes-are-fun]

Can you share the diameters of the wires?

[@EngineeredAngler]

Sure, I'll check them and put the measurements in the description.

[@tengyang9437]

What tool do you use for eyelet

[@EngineeredAngler]

TwistTech

[@josiptolmacevic6611]

I think that only thing that meters is how much stress you make on wire while making loops because you are bending it and that is what stress it

[@EngineeredAngler]

Well, the stress / strain and ultimate strength of steel wire actually gets pretty complex. There's a phenomenon called strain hardening where the steel actually gets stronger from being pulled hard enough to stretch a bit. Here what is most influencing the strength of the through wire is how much friction the barrel wraps can produce against the standing wire. Thank you for watching and for your input.

[@josiptolmacevic6611]

@@EngineeredAngler thanks for sharing knowledge. I find it helpful because I'm starting make my own lures. Maybe,someday, I'll make some video...

[@easyfishing9152]

Hey..so what's the best wire? I'm using galvanized 50 lb It's ok??

[@EngineeredAngler]

It depends on how you plan to use it. ..galv. wire is usually annealed and that means it bends a little too easily, so if it needs to stay straight you might have a problem. Otherwise it's very strong and easy to work with.

[@ianhansberger7038]

should see what happens if the stainless has epoxy around the wraps to stop the unraveling...

[@EngineeredAngler]

Yeah...if the barrel wraps are glued inside the lure it has plenty of strength.

[@Ricmcc]

Wat dia wire ?

[@EngineeredAngler]

79kg... 0.73mm dia

[@652barry]

Stainless for me. Less rust.

[@EngineeredAngler]

I guess I didn't mention that the annealed steel wire is Galvanized ... Works pretty well even in saltwater.

[@thatsmallrockshop]

I use 308 L stainless. Probably overkill but thats how i like to make my baits over kill.

[@theRussianJiu]

Try silver solder. Ha!

[@EngineeredAngler]

I have tried it...the resulting bond is super strong but the heat needed to do it ruins the temper on the wire.

[@theRussianJiu]

@@EngineeredAngler, I was wondering about that. I wish I had you as a teacher back in the day. My grades would have gone from C+ to A+. You do nice work.

[@Ricmcc]

Kg not lbs

[@Dougwoz1]

I have to admit you are a meticulous engineer. Your shop is without clutter or disorganization. And you use the best tools and machines. But your a poor chronicleizer, you provide no links or list of materials. Your viewers want to know what you use and where you got it from. Now maybe you just don't want to give away your secrets.

[@EngineeredAngler]

Well...the shop is pretty well organized but, actually lots of clutter until I clean up for the video. But you're right I am a bit scatter brained when it comes to detailing what I use and where I get it from. I source all my stuff on the internet, no secretes on Amazon and Ebay... Thanks for watching and I'll try to do better.