How Sympathetic Are The Fire Emblem Antagonists?

[@Mangs1337]

⏰Timestamps⏰ 00:00 Intro 00:45 Medeus 02:29 Gharnef 03:26 Duma 04:25 Rudolf 05:14 Jedah 05:25 Hardin 06:10 Arvis 07:37 Manfroy 08:05 Julius 08:26 Veld 08:46 Zephiel 09:57 Idunn 10:37 Nergal 12:58 Lyon 13:58 Ike 15:03 Zelgius 16:19 Sephiran 17:07 Validar 17:31 Grima 17:45 Gangrel 18:07 Walhart 18:36 Anankos 19:12 Berkut 20:33 Nemesis 21:07 Rhea 21:37 Thales 21:43 Edelgard 22:33 Sombron 23:12 Outro

[@emperortoho]

you accidentally replaced ashnard with ike in the timestamp

[@ExcieXC]

Ike the villain D:

[@nessdbest8708]

Great video, but where's Andaron Saga?

[@jeromeheramis2932]

​​@@nessdbest8708 I hope Mangs will do one for that game too.

[@nessdbest8708]

@@jeromeheramis2932 Same

[@researchinbreeder]

I would've personally just split "Very Sympathetic" into "Victim" and "Dragon Dementia Sucks"

[@RuneTacticss]

Ah yes my favorite FE antagonist, Ike

[@lsrrr3857]

Nah, biggest antagonist in FE is definitely RNG

[@charlettmoon2693]

I still love making (almost but not really) jokes about how Ike is just an anti-human racist who blames humans for being racist but is nice to Soren and Laguz when they're racist. I guess it's okay to be racist when they're your friends/you wish you had claws like them???? Also the fact that at the end of FE10 he just leaves everyone and everything, including his own sister, who begged him not to leave her like their father did when he was killed. Absolute scumbag who only cares about the people he wants to make out with, and I'd definitely put him in an antagonist spot just to make people REEEEEEE.

[@TheZackofSpades]

I thought I was stumbling into some DEEP lore about Ashnard being an alternate-timeline Ike or something when I saw that in the chapter list 😅

[@jeromeheramis2932]

​@@lsrrr3857 Stupid RNG always screwing our tactics, our plans, always there to watch over and to troll us, curse you bad RNG.

[@lv4715]

@@charlettmoon2693 To be fair, the Laguz kinda had a point, so Ike siding with them makes sense. And from my knowledge, they were racist to the scumbags that led Begnion. The thing about him leaving though...... Yeah that was an oversight by the writers for sure.

[@GerudoKing_]

Calling Walhart “Walmart” will never not be funny.

[@OmniMon94]

Agreed

[@SpookSkellington]

My favorite antagonist is the pirate captain guy in FE7 that escorts you to the dread isle, because i spent a long fucking time trying to beat him only to find out it gives you a game over if you do. In my defense, he stated he likes a good fight. He's just a sore loser who dies when he's killed.

[@3verlong]

Fargus.

[@calzone7961]

"He's just a sore loser who dies when he's killed" should not have cracked me up as much as it did

[@benjaminstorace6699]

@@calzone7961 same here🤣

[@ZX-Gear]

Shirou Emiya:People DIE when they are killed!!!!

[@anathema064]

Found the mooncalf

[@oof5992]

Anankos did nothing wrong and is easily the most sympathetic of them all, i too would go insane if i was forced to hear azuras singing for all of eternity.

[@stefanoandreani2562]

Anankos not only he bacame Mad but split his Spirit apart and recruit Heroes from another time to help Corrin finish him. Also he killed his best friend. "Why I am the One to surfer, why I am the One left to die?"

[@The_B_Button]

Definitely, although Anankos made a big 🤡 mistake with not taking off with his buddies when they left, but I don't remember what the reason was for Anankos staying

[@cameron9484]

I think he got killed but I can't entirely remember either​@@The_B_Button

[@abcisawesome3418]

Mangs when talking about Edelgard: Oh my, I feel like I could probably do an entire video on her EDELGARD SPOTLIGHT WHEN???

[@karasu__tenshi]

IIRC she was supposed to be the first TH character to get one…

[@raho500]

It's been a lot of time since one. I think livestreams are just more profitable right now.

[@CritAlps]

Honestly Idk if I want an Edelgard video from the KZbinr who placed her into the entirely unsympathetic category LMAO

[@abcisawesome3418]

@@CritAlps fair enough lol, I thought she was gonna be next tier up because he put the genocidal Zephiel up there

[@Abundy]

Self proclaimed #1 Jugdral enjoyer doesn't even mention Raydrik and Travant smh

[@matiastorres2553]

the scence when travant give his son the gungir bc he knew a new ruler could chose a new path and he is going to face leif and die is pure cinema

[@Ephraim225]

They stank But at least someone remembered them right Veld???

[@neintimesthegeek1337]

The most unsympathetic antagonist in the FE franchise is the fan base. God forbid for you to say anything good, or bad, about any game in the series

[@ZX-Gear]

The Megaten Fandom:You poor baby.

[@pandabanaan9208]

The true fe villain was the toxic fans who joined along the way

[@MultiKarmacharger]

It's more of a madness than an antagonist, IMO -it has no real goals or objectives, just a mass of heads reeling

[@pandabanaan9208]

@@MultiKarmacharger in other words the fe fan base is the remire village calamity

[@paperluigi6132]

@@ZX-Gearthose guys are literally split into two factions: Persona Fans and Everything Else. And the latter has its own subdivisions.

[@randomguy6680]

Zephiel may be evil, but you've got to appreciate his commitment. When he wants so wipe out humanity, he is included. When he is defeated, he stalls so that Idunn can continue the genocide.

[@whichDude]

Sombron: His ring! His precious power ring! Gone forever!!! RHEEEEE!!!

[@DreadlordZolias]

MYYYYY PRRRREEEEECIOUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

[@cladius3216]

well evil doofenshmirtz lost his toy train

[@ethanreddy6551]

​@@cladius3216played for comedy not tragedy

[@ethanreddy6551]

That's why engage sucked and never do so well, it's forgotten compared to 3H. I'm an Engage hater and stand by it proudly

[@andrewshearsby8125]

Until we got his motivation I thought he was a good villain 😅

[@loserlw337]

The only reason Lyon lost his soul is because he was envious and horny. 100% most relatable antagonist in the series

[@nekonomicon2983]

Erika simps will definitely relate

[@ZX-Gear]

Dude also had huge shoes to fill with his dad dying and his empire left to him added with him and his low self-esteem issues. So yeah. Can relate.

[@pandabanaan9208]

I mean he apparently lost to 4 strenght E rank sword eirika in a spar match if I remember correctly, so when you're that much of a twink I kinda get the whole insecurity thing

[@Underworlder5]

so basically, if grado had a therapist then the plot of sacred stones would never have happened

[@pandabanaan9208]

@@Underworlder5 I'm convinced therapists don't exist in the fire emblem universe

[@stuckinabucket6873]

Why did Ashnard do it? Because why not And he is super buff Truly compelling villain i love him

[@grandarkfang_1482]

Ashnard is the evil version of the Gigachad.

[@jooglebob]

Not to mention he had a child with a manakete to potentially create a strong human-dragon hybrid, then instead uses the child as blackmail to force another manakete to be his mount. Truly hardcore!

[@thekiss2083]

​@@grandarkfang_1482All gigachads are evil

[@dustinjones7458]

​@@grandarkfang_1482 Negachad

[@avaliantsoul5408]

sometimes I just mix Ashnard and Senator Armstrong. I dunno why, but they have a similar vibe in my head.

[@JordiumZ]

so fire emblem is about defeating old people with dementia

[@ElvenRaptor]

Old people are scary when they go off their meds.

[@Curaga-y6t]

how many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man the series

[@tutorialboss4090]

My favorite comment thread in this video, yes this is the essense of fire emblem. Senile boomer with all their accumulated wealth takes arms against the youngins.

[@minidiamantl5462]

call back to calling nemesis a boomer. This still cracks me up.

[@rdrrr]

Marth hits the griddy, causing Medeus to die of cringe

[@blueshadeseraphim6926]

I’m actually one of the few people who has a soft spot for Rhea. Sure, her hoping Byleth would become the key in getting her mother back is questionable, but regarding her placing Sothis’s crest stone in Byleth as a baby, what other option did she have? Had she not done that, Byleth would’ve died right then and there. Really, her bigger blunder there was simply not being more upfront with Jeralt about what happened. Obviously telling him the full truth would involve divulging knowledge tying to the Nabateans, which she naturally doesn’t wanna risk. But even simply telling him she had to use a forgotten ritual or something like that at Sitri’s behest, or something along those lines, that would’ve likely been the wiser course of action than just dismissing any notion something happened altogether.

[@dragoonprime9829]

This and the fact that she survived the genocide of her own people

[@stevef5888]

And let’s not also gloss over the face she’s basically Jesus to Sothis’ God. Like Sothis was a LITERAL GOD on earth. She’s not just trying to bring back mommy, she’s trying to resurrect an actual creation diety who shapes their world. This isn’t an Ulrick brothers situation this is a god is dead, we have killed him, how do we get him back situation.

[@MidwestArtMan]

I always liked the story of Berkut because it's like a Shakespearian-style tragedy of a prince who gradually loses his grandeur and turns self-destructive trying to claw it back. Very edgy, very interesting.

[@ZX-Gear]

Berkut was how I got to know of Ian Sinclair.

[@acekun6493]

I'd call Conquest Garon, Hans and Iago very sympathetic because they constantly make me crack up while reading Fates story which is a lot more than I can say about almost any other villain.

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

Hans is Buggi if Buggi had 0 charm and was 100% Based

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

Hans is so based he kills Lillith twice and commits war crimes on a daily basis

[@bentowers3614]

I'd argue Hans is irredeemably unsympathetic for me, since we flat out know he was a criminal in his past who was incarcerated for his crimes, and even after being given a second chance in joining the military, he never quit being a criminal and upgraded to war crimes instead, as well as disobeying his superiors on the regular. He really only gets away with it because Garon was already gone by then, replaced by the puppet Anankos put in his place, but the old Garon we hear about would've definitely put a stop to him very fast. Iago, on the other hand, comes across as somewhat unsympathetic to me. He really seems like someone who was super loyal to Garon and let that loyalty blind him to the point that, once Garon was replaced by Anankos' puppet, he had no problems continuing to do what Garon asked, even as those demands became cruel and evil. So naturally, he'd plan to ruin Corrin's day if Garon asked, and was correct (from his viewpoint of Garon still being there even though we know Garon was gone) to lash out against the siblings for their apparent betrayal. We never got to see the real King Garon. From what we know of him through supports and other such things, it seems that he would perhaps be a more sympathetic figure. A gentle father who just could not bring himself to leave all the women he loved, inadvertently, causing the death of a lot of them. I wonder when he died exactly? That would be interesting to figure out, since he is clearly a puppet by the time we first meet him in Fates.

[@vao519]

For Rhea she also witnessed the genocide of her people too and in all honesty fodlan was doing pretty okay in the1k years she was in power

[@ramen1010]

Fire emblem 7 isn't perfect story wise by any means, but one of the things I feel they got right was Nergal. He was such an interesting villain.

[@Mangs1337]

Agree!

[@mobgabriel1767]

all of the budget for FE7's story went to nergal and the black fang's backstory and as a result the rest was the tragedy we got XD

[@ascrein5247]

On the topic of bosses, I would say King Garon of Nohr. If I recall, he was originally a kind man and when it was revealed that an evil dragon was attempting to destroy Nohr and Hoshido, he tried to make an alliance with Hoshido but he ended up getting controlled and starting a war with Hoshido anyways.

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

If only we saw that side of him, but nope. They could have done that în revelations where he could escape anankos's control and try to redeem himself by sacrificng his life for his children, but no.

[@TrueBladeSoul]

Yeah like if that was something we got to see or was properly explained like have people talk about what he was like in the past it would make Norh a lot less obviously evil since then we would actually have to wonder if Garon is doing what he does for a good reason as a kind man who knows when to harden his heart for the good of his people would look like a monster to Hosido but to Norh a tragic king who is only doing what he has to

[@carlospolk5033]

@@TrueBladeSoulAgreed. It was sadly only touched upon, based on memories of a few others, but only that, because Fates’s writers said F it... If it was properly explained/delved into, I can see him being much higher on the list.

[@theelectricgamer9889]

@@mihaimercenarul7467 something like that could have worked when he was dying but remember he was basically dead at this point only being animated and controlled by Anankos

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

I mean, we never see that side of him, we just see Garon commiting war crimes and trying to kill everything that breathes

[@pandabanaan9208]

They really need to find a cure for dragon demenntia, could've prevented a lot of conflicts

[@mpnuorva]

It's called dragonstone.

[@pandabanaan9208]

@@mpnuorva so wait would that make the dragons who refuse dragon stones the dragon equivalent of anti vaxers

[@hilgigas09]

I would like to add some context for Rudolph and Rhea. Rudolph rules a nation that is lacking in arable land. Rigel was suffering famine so he went to the sister kingdom of Zofia. King Zofia said " Ha! No" and continued to party and have unprotected sex with random women. Celica and her brother are his only surviving bastard children. Rudolph responded by finding the Falchion, killing Mila, then killing Zofia and his entire family. Rigel is raiding Zofia for resources. Rhea is very much like Medeus in that her people were massacred by Nemesis and his Elite. A lot of her more troubling actions make more sense with the understanding that her entire culture and race were destroyed, and she now has to live with the descendants of her oppressors. The same descendants that swing around the mutilated corpses of her kin and kill each other in droves. Edelgard additionally forces her out of her ancestral land in every route of Three houses.

[@goroadachi9489]

To be fair Rhea got consent before she put Sothis into Byleth.

[@pandabanaan9208]

For byleth maybe but for the previous subjects that consent is very suspicious, like when you remember the power dynamic it is very disturbing, knowingly or not rhea is exploiting her position as the archbishop to make her faithfull followers go along with her experiments

[@brightlight8852]

​@pandabanaan9208 They were homunculi they were never human to begin with. Rhea created artificial humans/Nabateans and then adopted and raised as her own children. There wasn't any human experimentation.

[@goroadachi9489]

@@pandabanaan9208 You mean the hominculi she created for one specific purpose? Something like that isn’t exactly immoral considering that she makes them herself.

[@NeoNintendo]

You consent. She consents. Isn't there someone you forgot to ask? Sothis.jpg

[@pandabanaan9208]

@@brightlight8852 and that isn't messed up why, sitri seemed pretty human to me and jeralt and aelfric, so even if they are humonculi then all that changes is rhea is creating living beings purely for the goal of solving her mommy issues, rhea is a complex character and not evil but there is no justification for this type of experimentation regardless if they were her followers or creations because either way she is exploiting a power dynamic of someone who would do anything for her

[@biscutelizabeth4764]

I think you put nemesis a bit too high. He and a group of his buddies wiped out all but a handful of people by raiding them in the night while they slept. That and they yoinked the bodies literally turning them into weapons and drinking their blood to roid up. Plus if im remembering right three houses implies that the sacred weapons are kind of alive? (Pls correct me if im wrong on that)

[@Treasure_hunter_21]

They kinda are

[@eliyahuoziel1775]

Quick thing to note about Nemesis, Edelgard and Seiros. Nemesis is given a backstory. He is a thief who killed Rhea's mother Sothis due to the prodding of TWSITD, and then committed genocide on all the Nabateans (rhea's people), feeding their blood to his elite commanders and using their bones as weapons. So yes, he is entirely unsympathetic. Fun villain, though. Rhea's backstory is that her whole race, who just wanted to help humans, was wiped out thanks to Nemesis, with the exceptions of Seteth and Flayn. In addition to this, the reason why she put Sothis's heart in Byleth is because Byleth's mother Sitri was on the verge of death and this was the only way of saving his/her life. Still does some messed up things, mainly in the last chapter of crimson flower, and it is kind of messed up that she never explained this to Jerald, but I would still bump her up a tier, maybe even two if you really want to push it. I don't have much to disagree with on Edelgard, just wanted to add that all she really had to do if she wanted to change the system was talk to Dimitri and Claude, both of whom she got along with, and the gaslighting done in Crimson flower significantly hurt my love for the game. She has one of the most sympathetic backstories, but due to her actions, yeah, she still goes in the bottom tier. So to summarize, Rhea should have been in somewhat sympathetic while Nemesis and Edelgard move to/stay in Entirely Unsympathetic.

[@endikaaspeurrutia1013]

Calling irredimable to Rhea or Edelgard while simpathysing with other villais on the franchise is ridiculous

[@sonofpears4691]

Oh yeah because I’m sure if Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude talked then the church, which is the most powerful faction on the continent, would just roll over. Also what makes you think Claude and Dimitri would agree with her, chances are if she reveals who she is it ends the same way for Dimitri since he still thinks that somehow Edelgard killed his family, so at best she has the leister alliance on her side but even then I reckon Claude would be way more likely to side with the church as he does before. Also are you really saying that Crimson Flower is trying to “gaslight” you into finding Edelgard sympathetic, where does it gaslight you exactly?

[@TheTenzen12]

@@sonofpears4691 First of all Church is NOWHERE near being "most powerfull faction". They don't even have conscripts nor it's united. Second when Empire dunked on their local branch Church, it did just rolled over. Rhea has zero influence in Empire ever since. Third I do agree that CF did not try gaslight anyone into finding Edelgard symphatetic. She is straighforwardly villain even in her own route and I think game was quite honest honest about it (well maybe except changing characterisation of such characters as Ferdinand, Caspar or Dorothea... I guess that counts?).

[@skynet0912]

I would put Rhea and Edelgard in the "Somewhat Sympathetic" tier, simply because both of them have the capacity for both love and compassion, but they take extreme actions they feel they must in order to preserve the world. Depending on the path and ending, both Rhea and Edelgard are perfectly willing to step down and leave the future of the world in someone elses hands. Rhea leaves the church to Byleth, and Edelgard honors her own system, and actually steps down as emperor for someone more "worthy" in some cases. It's of course very dependent on what path you look at, but even at their worst, i would say that Rhea would be the one who should be lowest on the list. So the fact that they can both show remorse, loyalty, honor and even love towards Byleth and others, make it seem unfair to paint them as irredeemable or unsympathetic...

[@marinusboon104]

Yes, someone who know what they are saying.

[@emils1615]

Sombron is the most sympathetic villain ever guys!!!! He brainwashed his children and use them as soldier in a war to conquer the world because when he was a childeren some guy has stolen his candy and I don't really know actually but come on he gave us a 1 our monologue about his backstory out of nowere how can I don't sympathise with him. I was crying when I learn that he lost his best friend because somthing and then some other thing and then Kaga emblem. Truly the moment of my life

[@Abundy]

Brainwashing children to meet with Kaga seems fitting, truly the best villain in all of FE.

[@raho500]

underrated comment lol.

[@Dennis_Ryan_Lynch]

What peak fiction does to an mf:

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

Sombrom indeed is a villain from a Fire Emblem game

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

Sombron reminds me of fire emblem new mystery emblem where that dark wizard brainwashes that female bishop therefore brainwash clarrise

[@iwantmoney3598]

I just wanna say the headcanon of Sombron being an Elitist and the emblem he was trying to find was Kaga makes him S tier (?)

[@the42ndgecko21]

I would argue Anankos does get some credit for taking steps to try and prepare the world to kill him after he goes mad, so that's a step above someone like Duma. Of course, there are no steps to go above, so he's in the right spot on the tier list, but just wanted to point that up.

[@yacmoth770]

Grima has some lore explored in post game shadows of valentia...and yes, fire emblem heroes. He basically hates humans because his creator betrayed him because forneus feared grimas power and sealed him away. Nothing spectacular but its something.

[@tbc1880]

Bro really just had to prove him right didn't he.

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

who plays Heroes

[@tbc1880]

@@AzumarillConGafasBv masochists and people who like reading.

[@Demonboy007]

Bruh. How are you gonna do Rhea dirty like that? Are we just going to ignore her people were massacred? Are we just going to ignore her people and her mom's remains were turned into WMDs? Are we just going to ignore the fact Nemesis worked with the people who had her people massacred with HER MOM'S REMAINS?! Are we just going to ignore that Rhea and Edelgard are perfect foils to one another? Are we going to ignore the fact that Rhea only put up the crest system and the 10 elites because politics forced her to? AND SHE GETS HIT WITH THE DRAGON DEMENTIA DEPENDING ON THE ROUTES YOU TAKE. This Rhea slander is wild. Literally every other villain that had a backstory got it told in detail. Rhea? "Her mom died, sucks to be her."

[@ElvenRaptor]

Meanwhile, they're all but too happy to side with Edelgard, who actively assists her family's murderers.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

Edelgard lost my sympathy when she sided with the people who ruined her life and brainwashed her in order to destroy the Church.

[@pedroribeirodesousa9152]

Yeah it definitely feels like she went after the wrong target,if anything the church would have helped her destroy the agartgans,the church has issues but there’s a lot of way of going about fixing them ,also she tried to have the other 2 lords killed for no reason

[@grandarkfang_1482]

​@@pedroribeirodesousa9152She wanted them killed so they wouldn't get in her way.

[@angelpearson696]

My thoughts exactly

[@Isaiahpgn]

I understand why they wrote it that way but at the same time its the dumbest thing ever

[@goroadachi9489]

The thing is, she didn’t exactly have the full picture so she got easily put in that situation. Claude was really the only one who pieced the entire puzzle together mostly because he had the most time and incentive to do so.

[@heyguysxd]

Honestly you should have put the Begnion Senators on the list. They are basically responsible for everything bad that happens in Tellius. Thankfully that makes them easy to rank irredemably unsympathetic.

[@ZX-Gear]

Yeah. They were the reason why Sephiran planned an all put genocide of the entire continent of Tellius by evoking Ashera's Wrath all cause nearly his entire people of Heron Lagus were wiped out over a misunderstanding THEY caused. Yeah. I would understand why Sephiran skipped the Magneto Stage and went full Apocalypse.

[@villainglasses3051]

your scripted videos are some of your best content.

[@Mangs1337]

Thanks!

[@TeamGenerator]

@@Mangs1337 be honest this whole vid came from the wah wah (insert trivial problem here)

[@Speedwinghere]

Wow a tier list that actually managed to hold my attention throughout the whole thing, congrats. For me personally I like Ashnard a lot. I think if they had fleshed him out a little more to show a man who longed to set things right and slowly became what we see in the games from all his bloodshed he could have been one of the greatest villains in the series. Anankos is peak, his reasonings and machinations will be revealed when he returns in Rev 2

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

Ashnard is Underrated and the Blood Contract ruined him. If the Blood contract did not exist, he would have been a much better villain

[@Speedwinghere]

@@ChillstoneBlakeBlast if the blood contract did not exist tellius might actually have the good story everyone claims it has

[@lpfan4491]

@@Speedwinghere Most people generally do not claim FE10 to have a good story, even with localization or extended script-changes. It was always about FE9 and the Blood Pact is very much something backwards-extended into the prior plot by the sequel.

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

@@ChillstoneBlakeBlast dude if blood contract didnt exist. silver hair maiden we wouldnt fight her. think of without brain chips for clones. it would ahd changed very different

[@nohrianguy]

I hope my boy lyon is rated highly

[@Waauugh]

Thales speaks of his people having been driven underground by Rhea's people in the past, but then he also just attacks everyone in sight and became a 'I shall conquer the surface world!' villain, even abducting children to replace them with shapeshifters. I believe it's also implied that it was his people that murdered Sothis and most of her children, then made their bones into The Heroes' Relics. Hell, the Sword of the Creator is Sothis' own spine and the Crest Stone is her actual heart, which he then gave to a powerful Thief King called Nemesis to go kill her daughter Rhea with! I understand his motivation but his evil is way past redemption. Nemesis then also had the nickname King of Thieves besides King of Liberation, so he was already evil before he became the warlord killed by Seiros/Rhea, also irredeemable.

[@brightlight8852]

In the DLC a Slither book reveals that the reason for his beef with the Nabateans is because the Slithers want to perform genocide in all surface dwellers (they had already wiped out several civilizations by them) and Sothis (being a goddess of life) took offense to that.

[@Waauugh]

@@brightlight8852 Daaaaaayum. Okay, mega-deserved to be driven underground.

[@Aleph3575]

@@Waauugh This is incorrect, the book bright is referring to only states that the Agarthans began to fight with each other and attempted to overthrow Sothis resulting in the genocide of most of the civilization, thus implying that Agartha was the global power at that point. The desire to destroy all surface dwellers came afterwards as a result of them worshiping Sothis. I am not saying they didn't deserve what happened to them though, said book also references their "carnal nature" and proclivity towards violence.

[@Waauugh]

@@Aleph3575 Ooyyy, so there's no good true good sides then. OR, this is just speculation on my part, we can look at the Agarthan technology. Maybe it was damaging the world and Sothis came down and went "Bro, stop."

[@kinga6347]

Isn't it implied that Nemesis was the one to kill Sothis? Or was it just Zanado?

[@freetoplayking7362]

To add to medeus' hatred, the founder of the kingdom of archanea, ardrah, removed the star spheres from the binding shield to sell for money, weakening the seal and making the earth dragons go crazy. He then used the money to sweep across the continent and start his kingdom, and used the gemless shield as his nation's crest, the fire emblem. This was mentioned in fe3 book 2, not the remakes. Really, if someone caused the insanity of my people to make money (even if indirectly), I would be pissed.

[@tyeus3673]

Thales wanted to commit mass genocide upon the children of the goddess as revenge for being forced underground, but considering what the dlc has shown me the underground is kinda neat so hes a dumbass. 2/10 killed by boulder

[@shadexvii3975]

21:10 nemesis, I believe, was established either in the DLC or the GW route, was supposedly just some bandit guy that happened to work well as a figurehead for the Agarthans to prop up as their pawn of revenge against the Nabataeans. So he’s probably just a pawn doing it for power, but idk.

[@karmadoggo4224]

Evil characters that are evil because they're evil are built differently

[@grandarkfang_1482]

This post was approved by Ashnard enjoyers.

[@solomonpnq]

IZUKA MENTIONED 🗣🗣

[@thekiss2083]

I hope Engage is the last "let me tell you about my tragic childhood for the next 27 minutes" villain we get for a while

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

GARON MENTIONED 🗣️🔥🔥 WHAT THE FUCK IS GOOD WRITING 🗣️🔥🔥🔥

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

@@grandarkfang_1482 Ashnard's battle convo with Ike also shows he is not just a badass, but also that he is dedicated to his beliefs. The one where says something along the lines of "Ashnard, I'm going to kill you!" and Ashnard is just like "You kill me? If you are capable of that good! That is the principle on which my ideal world is built!" or something along those lines.

[@bgammax5842]

There are a few more important details that need to be noted about Sombron 1. His world had all of the Fell Dragons attempt to rebel against the Divine Dragons of their time, resulting in his race being wiped out with the exception of Sombron, who was a child at the time. So instead they banished him to the Engage world, where they expected the Divine Dragons there to keep him in check 2. Sombron lived for years with only his Emblem to keep him company. The Emblem spirit abandons Sombron the moment he finds someone willing to talk with him, which Sombron seems to interpret as the Emblem abandoning him for needing to rely on others. Alear theorizes that the Emblem left because they knew Sombron would be fine now that he had a companion. Sombron was not fine. 3. Sombron’s goal is to search for his original Emblem so that his only parental figure could be proud of how strong Sombron had become since he started working on his own, and is completely apathetic towards the Engage world and any others he might end up going through. He essentially tells Alear to buzz off since Sombron wasn’t going to do anything further to Alear’s world anyways

[@hilgigas09]

So what you are saying is that Sombron is Toxic Masculinity personified. "Love and Kindness? Ew!! Thats for women and beta males. Nah, it's all about them gains!"

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

He's still a shitty character, even surpassing Anankos

[@bgammax5842]

@@AzumarillConGafasBv for sure yeah, committed like every war crime. Its just annoying to see him get dismissed like the Gharnefs when he’s not a “literally exists to be evil” character

[@voltron77]

Zephiel and Ashnard are my favourite villains because they’re evil, they know they are and yet they are certain that they are doing the right thing.

[@lspuria8440]

Well said. They both are just pure bad ass

[@tyeus3673]

The best villains are the ones who believe they're right

[@lpfan4491]

Tbh, Zephiel is very selfconfirming. Roy goes to him saying "You are no better, you Hypocrite" and Zephiel just goes... "Yeah actually, that's true and kinda part of the whole idea. I am human, which is why I specifically do not want to rule, I only collect reign to pass it over later".

[@kencritical8225]

​@@lpfan4491makes him all the more based

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

​@@lpfan4491based af

[@Zacariah24-uw1ox]

As a mental health professional, I would say that the trauma experienced by Zephiel and Edelgard are vastly underrated in their placements on the list. Yes, trauma doesn’t excuse their actions but the tiers are measured in degrees of sympathy, not justification. First, with Zephiel, his father tried to have him killed on multiple occasions. With the last attempt, there is a detail that you don’t mention that makes Zephiel’s descent to madness a bit ironic. Despite his father being absolutely terrible as a father and the man himself implies he’s nothing special to look up to, Zephiel does because he is his father. In the moment where he is poisoned, Zephiel goes into it extremely hopeful that he has finally gained the respect of his father despite having no reason to believe as such. That is why his father’s betrayal is so hurtful. Zephiel had so much hope that the betrayal of said hope had such the extreme effect it had on him. On top of this he had to kill his father or risk yet another attempt on his own life which just further compounds his trauma. Next, with Edelgard, she literally witnesses her 10 siblings all die horrific deaths in front of her on top of the cruel experimentation done on her. She was taken as a political prisoner by the other nobles in the insurrection of the seven as well, which is what allowed the experimentation to take place. This is on top of everything else that is just messed up in Fodlan, take Hannemann as a good example of the horrors of the Crest system. You’re sympathetic towards characters like Lyon and Julius because they had no control over being possessed. Zephiel and Edelgard had no control over their circumstances either. Lyon and Julius were released from their pain since they lost themselves. Zephyrs and Edelgard had to live with their pain up until their respective deaths. Yes, these are all just video game characters at the end of the day, however, I was compelled to write this because of the very real issue mental health can be and how this is something we can all benefit from being more mindful of.

[@avaliantsoul5408]

While tier lists are obviously based on opinion (literally the whole point), I also got frustrated a bit with how much Egg switched between sympathy and justification villain by villain.

[@brightlight8852]

That's wrong they did have control over their circumstances and they chose to do bad things.

[@Aleph3575]

@@brightlight8852 By that argument, Lyon should also be viewed as unsympathetic because he choose to try and bring his father back to life rather than embrace ruling Grado himself when Vigarde died which is what led to his possession.

[@brightlight8852]

@Aleph3575 Well yeah, ultimately Leon had a choice and he made the wrong one it's not wrong to hold it against someone for making the wrong choice when they weren't forced to do it.

[@fufzooz]

real

[@joshuabonesteel2303]

There is a bit more to Lyon. He also saw the destruction of his country in a vision, and that is why he turned to the dark stone.

[@LCardosed92]

Rating the main villains from FEH (till book 7): Very sympathetic : Veronica, Fafnir Somewhat sympathetic : Gullveig, Freyja Somewhat unsympathetic : Embla Irredeemably unsympathetic : Surtr, Hel, Eitri

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

yea I say veronica is very sympathetic because she couldnt control her blood until way later. gullveig because well she was controlled and well... for embla... embla became evil due to jealously... freyja I do feel bad for her because she has loyal followers like plumeria. I dont know whats freyja reason why she attacks humans. I think Surtr probally ties in evil when compare to ashnard, the dark wizard new mystery emblem, and begion senator

[@jeromeheramis2932]

Nergal and Lyon are like Darth Vader, what makes them the same is they try to accumulate power even if the source of that power is questionable in order to save what they value and love the most but accumulating so much power corrupted them as that what always happens for seeking to be more powerful, they always fall to the dark side, as cliche as it sounds "Absolute power corrupts" just like what Batman said. Such tragic characters makes interesting villains. You know they've fallen evil but you also understand why they did what they have done. Edit: I saw one of the comments suggesting that Valter should also be here too since he too is also a Victim that turned him into look like an irredeemable prick.

[@Harbringer443]

I may be making a very far-fetched statement but.. I think there was a reason why Zelgius killed Greil. We know that Zelgius isn't the type of man to unnecessarily kill people and he is also very calculating. If he killed for the sake of competition then he might have killed Skirmir, a Powerful lion laguz and proved his strength. But killing Skirmir would demolish his original intents of peace talk. Like I said very calculating. He also took many abuses from Begnion Senators without retaliating. He even accepted execution for upholding his honour. I am pretty sure when he met Ike he must have realised his potential. In fact, Ike could be the only one to thwart Ashnard's and Sephiran's mad plans. Maybe, in all his disguise, he planned to have Sephiran's plan thwarted. I'm saying this because it would've been impossible for Ike to become this strong if his father wasn't slaughtered..He gave Ike this motivation. I do not deny that he wanted to groom him into his father's equal but he may have done this because he already calculated the possibility that Ike may be the only one who can save world from destruction. Even if Zelgius didn't assist Sephiran, he would've still succeeded into awakening Ashera. But because of how loyal Zelgius is to Sephiran he found an indirect path to foil his plans without actually confronting his master. This could be possible because of how much Zelgius looked up to Greil. And he believed that Ike is the only one who can surpass Greil and be the one to save the world.

[@MysteryDisc]

Personally I would move Nergal down a tier because his means to accomplishing his goals (Dark/Elder Magic) were already known as a corrupting force and he had people trying help him stop. As for Sephiran, I'm fine with where he is but am tempted to move him up a tier, since on top of the Serenes Massacre, he was also witness to the fall of Beorc and Laguz relationships, including species infighting, and the rise of trafficking. Like that's a lot of atrocities to witness in real time.

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

Lyon being very sympathetic is not right. Lyon literally goes Sicko mode just because he lost his Father and grado suffers earthquakes all the time(Which is very sad) does not justify throwing a nation's worth of army to their death just to try to resurrect a Dark God that easily 1v1 him. Also playing against Eirika's/Ephraim's psyche instead of trying to talk to them directly is also not OK. Lyon literally started a war over nothing because he wanted all the power and not wanted to win favors with diplomacy. I'll say that Somewhat unsympathetic is the most fitting because Lyon is a sympathetic villain, but his means are pure insanity, especially in the Ephraim Route.

[@lpfan4491]

Eirika story > Ephraim story. Making Lyon into something that isn't sympathetic was a mistake.

[@mobgabriel1767]

i never knew how many gharnefs were in this game's history lmao this makes me appreciate the twist of idunn being a victim and zephiel being the main villain even more because without the context that you get at the end of the game she is basically set up to be another gharnef like character

[@lpfan4491]

FE6 is very much a creative mirror of the Archanea games. Stuff like how the first chapter is a 90 degrees-turned version of FE1 chapter 1, but ends up playing a lot diffrently in practice. Or how both humans and dragons were major douchebags in both games' backstories, but Archanea focusses more on "The evil dragons! We must stahp them!", while FE6 parodies that direction at first, but ends up being more critical of the human side of the conflict in the end.

[@mobgabriel1767]

@@lpfan4491 imagine if they make a awakening like game but for elibe in FE 19 then

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

Jahn was FE6's Gharnef tbh.

[@yukitono5633]

To be fair, Rhea's story is more about "reviving her mother", is about watching ALL of your kind slaughter after living harm harmoniously with the humans, not only that, watching *SPOILER* many of their remaining turn into weapons (bones into the weapons and hearts and blood into the crest stone. Rhea is only trying to revive her mother because she is literally a god, and by doing so Rhea also hope to revive all of her kind that was brutally murdered. About "using other people's baby for her own scheme", when Byleth was born, he was missing a heart, it only then did Sitri (his mom) beg Rhea to put the crest stone inside her (Sothis crest stone) to save the child, if Rhea refuses Byleth would just die, so I wouldn't say this is a selfish action. After seeing Byleth when he is grown, all she did was observe him and try to remind him memories of Sothis to see if Byleth has any of it, she did not experiment on him in any way. Sure you can see her being pretty violent and brutal if you side with Edelgard, but if you see the child you expect to revive your mother sides with the people you swear to destroy aka Those Who Slither In Ther Dark wouldn't your blood boil? Also if you play Verdant Wind/Silver Snow route, you can actually see Rhea slowly realizing her mistake, making artificial life, changing history to conceal the truth, ... And if you S rank support her it goes a little beyond that but to each their own. To sum it up, Rhea story was about watching your kind being murdered and their remains being used for war, so she was trying to revive them, that's basically it.

[@3To3dSl0th]

Mangs, there are several important villains you skimped out on: Where would you place Gheb, Glass, Batta the Beast, and Oliver? :p

[@raho500]

And Kyza

[@Alector12]

Edelgards whole shtick seems to allign with Rudolf and Walhart. Despite being a pretty intelligent character, her plan is kind of dumb and demands lots of unnecessary sacrifice and she is undoubtetly the main instigator of the war that plaques Fodlan for over 5 years. Its really hard to say if Edelgard deserves to hang with the Rigel boys up in Somewhat symphathetic tier but remaining stuck with guys like the Gharnefs and Ashnard is maybe a bit disingenuous. Maybe being in Somewhat Unsympathetic tier suits her best, surrounded by similar warmongers with sad pasts like Gangrel, Zephiel and Arvis. And speaking of moving up, though Rhea did, in her own words, questionable things, she did suffer similar tragedy as Medeus, seeing almost her entire kin slaughtered and turned into makeshift weapons by humans but did not go to drastic genocide solutions like Medeus, Zephiel or Sephiran and instead ruled Fodlan for over thousand years in relative peace. That is to say, she should most likely sit next to Medeus in the tier. Of course, these things, especially the 3H cast, are highly subjective. Oh, but Nemesis definetly goes to evil tier. This guy slaughtered dozens of innocents and made weapons out of their bones. It does not get any nastier than this. Honestly, I am baffled that Rhea allowed the reveration of Nemesis and the Ten Elites in the history books, hell, making most of their descendants even into nobles, after what they did to her family.

[@kippies66]

Personally, I would move Nemesis down a tier because just like the Gharnef archetypes, not knowing their motives does not excuse them. I would also move Edelgard and Zelgius up a tier. Zelgius because aside of his interactions with Greil and his family, he has conducted himself honorably on multiple occasions. An honorable person with an inexcusable motive goes into 'somewhat unsympathetic' for me. As for Edelgard, she falls into the 'relatable motive, bad methods' category, which would also be a case of 'somewhat unsympathetic'.

[@firenze6478]

Edelgard also had very little choice. She has a couple years at most left to live thanks to her dual crests and would have been a powerless puppet emperor like her father helplessly watching her kids torment like he did had she not purged her court which would have already grabbed the church’s attention.

[@robotsturm6488]

FE7 dragon was chilling with his dragon friends when suddenly a portal opened and they were transported and another place. 😢

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

I mean if we are going to be real the FE7 dragon would fall under sympathetic, from it's perspective, it's just chillin, a portal opens, some guy is like "Hey come over here it's cool" so it does and they he is immediately attacked and killed after coming through the portal. Even if the player didn't do it, Nergal still planned on draining it.

[@HanakkoLove]

Villains that have greater motivations than evil for sake of evil are great, but they're also really hard to do, which is how Edelgard falls flat when she is a self-made hipocrite by doing awful, basically iredeemable crimes to justify her means, which instead of seeing sympathetic, just looks pathetic.

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

Dimitri is the One True King of Fodlan. Claude is just a foreign invader

[@4wheal]

I also hate the fact that she is rarely ever challenged for her choices, definitely in her own route, unlike the other characters

[@goroadachi9489]

@@4wheal All of the students you fight challenge her on her stance. Dimitri challenges her. Dimitri even has a private meeting with her during his route. Claude also challenges her.

[@4wheal]

@@goroadachi9489 No, they dont they become yes men who go along with whatever she says the few that might raise a concern either give up or have to alter their beliefs to fit what Edelgard wants. That's because the writers know Edelgard can't stand as a character if people point out the joles in her logic. The Dimitri one in AM is one i will give you, and it's probably the best writer Edelgard is as a character in the game.

[@goroadachi9489]

@@4wheal Dimitri literally has a private meeting with Edelgard herself, and challenges her on her ideals. Even the students who join you do it for a specific reason, not tied to Edelgard’s beliefs.

[@deadlypandaghost]

Sombron doesn't care about the world. He just wants to find his friend. Still an irredeemable scumbag but he is specifically not on a world ending plot. He would've been happy to ditch the main character's world after he fucked it up in order to leave.

[@nosefera2]

Iirc, sombron was exiled and brought over an Emblem Ring, he lost that Emblem Ring after supposedly connecting with some in Elyos, gone emo, built an army and trusted nobody to get emblem ring powers, then travel to other worlds to find said ring. Doesnt change his rating tho lol.

[@lpfan4491]

"Built and army and trusted nobody". Nice.

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

What happened to Dorcas

[@TheJezryk]

I think you oversimplified rheas motivation significantly. It's not just the loss of her mother that she mourns. Humans, including the 10 heroes, murdered her entire species in a fully unprovoked war. She still had the compassion and farsight to establish the church, change history so that the murderers of her kind became known as the 10 heroes and tried her darndest to get humans to at least use the legacy of her kin, the crests, for a better future. Instead she had to babysit them for centuries while they use the crests to do horrible research on each other, kill each other, create crest beasts and have nothing better to do than murder each other just as senselessly as they murdered the nabatheans. Rhea is exhausted. She feels her sanity and her compassion slipping. She holds no love for humans after centuries of this nonsense and wants to revive her mother not only because of personal attachment, but also so that sothis can become the new archbishop and rhea can abdicate a position that has been slowy, but surely driving her insane. Imho she should at least be in the somewhat sympathetic tier

[@Alector12]

Sounds honestly a bit similar to Medeus so it makes sense to tier them next to eachother.

[@MAJJASTAK]

I don't think building a church in the middle of the continent to raise children in order to kill any opposition for possibly centuries is "babysitting" the world and trying to make a better future. I don't think it had anything to do with compassion. It's just my opinion, but considering how it was shown she didn't give a fuck about any of the past children and men she had children with in order to resurrect her mother, and that she started caring about Byleth ONLY when he became the first one to be THIS close to be the successful attempt she wanted, makes me think she's entirely selfish, and that she wouldn't have hesitated a SECOND to kill of Byleth and co. If they didn't awaken like the others, and if everything wasn't going to change anyways (depending on your route). She probably would have started all over again having other children with other dudes for that reason, and continue to assert her dominance on Fodlàn for generations like she did up to this point. Imo it really feels like she didn't lose any compassion or anything, but that she ALWAYS was self absorbed. Remember that the Rhea that INSTANTLY wanted to kill us and tear out our entrails when we side with edelgard is still the BASE Rhea we've seen up until this point in the first chapters, NOT the visibly religious maniac post timeskip in Edelgard's route. She did NOT hesitate a single second to want to kill us, while at this point of the story we were just siding with Edelgard to protect our pupil, not side with her for a war or anything.

[@GoldenRose116]

@@Alector12 Except Rhea didn't do half the evil shit Medeus tried to do

[@pandabanaan9208]

Fodlan wouldn't have half the issues it has if the people just went to therapy

[@Alector12]

@@GoldenRose116 Pretty much. Makes one wonder why Mangs put her below Medeus.

[@whiskey_barrel115]

Lyon just got used by the demon king as a vessel, and that's the part that sucks

[@Tizi1999]

I disagree on Zelgius. He may be a dick for killing Greil and forcing Ike to become the succesor of Greil, but he was also the driving force behind Ike becoming the man he is at the end of Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. I also think that he actually cared a lot about Ike because he knew what happened to his mom and Greil's madness. This is important because he could have easily told him about it to have Ike tip over the edge, but instead he decided to taunt him in other ways and guide him by his mere looming presenece. It should also be considered that without Zelgius returning in RD, Ike had a reason to become stronger again which in turn led to him literally killing god. I still don't think that he should be placed any higher than "Somewhat Sympathetic" but I do believe that he is the best "Rival" character they ever made.

[@ZX-Gear]

He was a good teacher. And a good friend.

[@legefy]

I actually don't think Judau is entirely unsympathetic. Whilst he's certainly an evil man his motivations are essentially for the sake of his country and his dragon. Gharnef meanwhile causes atrocities for the fun of it or to test his magic.

[@ItsAZues]

Man, after I've met Edelgard for the first time, she was destined to fit the dictator role. One that will do anything to achieve their goal, even teaming up with people who fucked you up. She 100% make go "But whyyyyy?!?!"

[@irlShively]

I think Jedah should go in the somewhat unsympathetic tier; his motivation is his misguided belief that if Duma goes mad, Rigel is completely screwed (very similar to how celica views the disappearance of Mila).

[@fromeggman]

It just dawned on me, Sombron is just Gollum but a dragon...and he takes it out on others lmao.

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

Something I do not agree with you is the fact that you state that Rudolph sent Berkut to fight Alm, HOWEVER, Rudolph was always against the idea of letting him enter the battlefield in the first place, and every time Berkut ass got handed by Alm's army, Rudolph always told him to not fight Alm, other than that, the video is fine

[@calamitoso0066]

I think that Jedah is more like a reflection of Celica and her overreliance in her godess.

[@jcly96]

I actually have a theory as to why dragons degenerate over time. I think what's happening is that dragons are SO powerful that a physical body is actually incapable of containing all that power so then their physical bodies deteriorate over time. However when dragons become spirits or find some way to supress or contain their power such as through the use of a conduit like a dragon stone they seem to be fine. Just a theory though.

[@fufzooz]

Nice one! Naga and Tiki are the perfect examples of overcoming that problem by becoming spirits or going to sleep so they can't deteriorate

[@a.e.5923]

I’m sorry but placing black knight, who spends his entire life as a tool of those taking advantage of his desire to belong, who is a fundamentally broken man who has been chewed up and spit out by society, who literally fought for 3 masters at the same time and still did not see himself as worthy of his success because he was not able to best his teacher (and he was right, Gawain would’ve dogwalked him if he hadn’t crippled himself) is SO much more sympathetic than Sephiran, and saying “I get it, humans kinda suck” is a lame answer. Zelgius is no dipherent in morality than zephiel, but almost all of his actions are at the whim of others

[@Dew8Dew]

I actually disagree on Jedah's placement, even through he's clearly a villain, his motivations aren't simply "haha I'm evil because yes", his devotion to Duma is more out of fear, as you can see from the convo he and Alm & Celica have before the final fight, Jedah would rather keep Duma alive even through he's gone fully mad because he can't imagine a world where mankind can live without the aid of gods, so even through he goes absolutely the wrong way about it, he's just a man that's too scared to live without a higher being watching over him, or at least, that was always my analysis of him.

[@boredomkiller99]

Yeah he is meant to be the foil to Celica who believes everything will be fine as long as they have Mila's blessing. She eventually accepts that the time of the two gods' is over while Jedah never did.

[@TheZackofSpades]

I think for me, one of the most “compelling” parts of Nergal is how hard you, the player, need to work to unearth his story. The conditions on finding his plot are so finite…so almost impossible to uncover without a guide…that it makes me more sympathetic. For some reason. Regardless, I think he’s well placed here.

[@JaidynReiman]

I agree with Arvis' placement. Some people are more sympathetic to him because later in life he learned the terrible mistakes he made, somewhat redeeming himself. But he was very much unsympathetic in his goals when he became Emperor where he was just a glorious bastard. Because we got to see him learn from his mistakes it makes him more sympathetic and frankly pulls him out of irredeemably sympathetical. His bsckstory isn't enough to make him more sympathetic, its actually his development after the fact. Zephiel is somewhat the opposite. He never redeems himself, we can just understand how he got to that point.

[@JaidynReiman]

Lol @ Edelgard. I don't like her, I think her plan is absolutely terrible and her means of doing so are even worse. That said even I would put her in "Somewhat Unsympathetic" lol. I can at least understand she became completely broken and is being manipulated by the true villains. Nemesis I think does fall into Irredeemable. What little we know of him proves he is.

[@MidwestArtMan]

"Birthrates started plummeting and his fellow dragons went insane." *modern day intensifies*

[@Delby5]

I got no sympathy for edelgard. If she just talked to Claude and Dimitri yknow the future rulers of their respective countries. They would’ve helped her. But she didn’t. And instead she caused a war.

[@evilworld3147]

You know she could talk to Rhea about it as well. She tells her what happened to her, and she knows the truth behind the creast in three hopes timeline.

[@Delby5]

@@evilworld3147 I mean I don’t count 3 hopes as canon but yeah. Literally could’ve avoided all that death and destruction if she only opened her god damn mouth

[@FeCyrineu]

We as an outside observers know we can trust Claude and Dminitri, but Edelgard doesn't know this. She doesn't know who they are really, and if your plan is to overthrow the old order then you can't just go blindly trusting people who are part of that old order.

[@Delby5]

@@FeCyrineu I’d agree with you if it wasn’t for 2 things. She knew dimitri for years. She knows the kind of person he is. 2nd is she didn’t even tell the rest of her team. Only Hubert knew her plans. She doesn’t trust anyone and that’s a major character flaw with her

[@hadoukenfighter]

posting before someone gets upset that Dimitri isn't listed here at all.

[@FireEmbros]

As a content creator who has done a vid on this topic before this was a great watch to see a different opinion!!! Fantastic job, love this type of content! Edit: about Gharnef, they actually touch upon the darksphere and him and how it’s darkness took a hold in such a manner that he was even capable of surviving without corporeal form due to the influence of it. Now WHY he always bad is a mystery, but the amplification was proveniente from the sphere, which I think is cool little tidbit of lore.

[@tobiz1922]

the main antagonists are the early game bandits.

[@bonrulapaugh7164]

Damn good watch, thanks Mr. Eggman!

[@canadadry5449]

Here's the thing. Some speculate that the emblem Sombron lost is Sommie, since Sommie appears on an emblem pedestal. If true, then all of his actions are understandable and 100% justifiable. Who wouldn't wage war against the world if that little guy left your side without notice.

[@deoxsus6972]

Edlegard is really dumb villain when you think about it. Her ire towards the church is based off a false telling of historical events. Her entire basis for hating the church is completely debunked by the revelations in Verdant Wind. It also makes no sense for her to target the church, while she cooperates with the people who were actually behind her suffering. It's not even like she doesn't know the Agarthans did it. She just chooses to look past it, and attack the church instead.

[@RLCguy]

The church actively enables the classism by telling their false history of the crests. And again, the Agarthans were useful to her. She had to play along with them until she could backstab them. We see clearly in 3 Hopes what happens when she doesn't.

[@Ubersupersloth]

5:25 In defence of Judah, there is a line in Echoes where Judah gives the impression that they believe it is impossible for humans to not live under a Dragon’s authority. An insane dragon is bad but if you believe no dragon means humans go bye-bye, I can see the logic of sticking with the insane dragon.

[@HerzogZosa]

i am so happy that youre rating edelgard as inredemably. simply cuz she _Is_ . i heard people try to excuse her doings so often, but in the end it comes down to "buhu, shes just an innocent baby girl who wants to make the world a better place" - yes, by deconstructing a working system in a maniac and manipulating bloodrage with the help of the very same guys that abused her in her childhood. cant be that horrifing if she can make comrades with them, tbh. and no, the argument "but she did this cuz she just wanted to use them as tools" just dont count to me; she thought she could outsmart beings that are fare older and knowing so much more of the world than she could ever learn. it wasnt Thane who was used by her, but she was used by him instead from the start. she became a thing just becaus he allowed her to. thats not a position where you can look down on someone. without byleth she could never hope to accive her goals - not cuz of his might, but as motivator - as teacher. And an Emperor of 'a better wold' shouldnt be in need of such a Daddyfigure to work propperly.

[@link99055]

I'm glad to see my boy Lyon up in that tier. I played sacred stones for the first time when I was in 7th grade, I think. His story always made me feel so sad. I revisited recently as a 30 year old man and still feel the same way. And the way they do that flashback at the end of the game? I cry, dude.

[@Lysvsyl]

Completely misunderstood Rhea. She didn't want to experiment on Babies. She created Byleth's mom. Byleth's mom had a baby. That baby was dead on birth. She begged Rhea to save her child. The only way to do so was to use the mother's heart, which she gave up willingly. Rhea loved Sitri like a daughter and did so with heavy heart. I can understand seeing her unsympathetic, even when I disagree, however you are just straight up spreading misinformation.

[@axonymous_thevoice]

Rhea is a complex case because on one hand,his actions are irredeemable but on the other hand,she has redeemable qualities and justifications for said-irredeemable actions. Yet Mangs decided to put Rhea in the same tier as fucking Nemesis whereas Edelgard is apparently worse than both

[@STIRRUPLEATHER]

I can't believe you didn't include Gharnef's "WHOA-HO!" from the OVA when talking about his backstory. You had one job, Mangs!

[@JustCrazyDK]

I thought this was a Heroes Video with that thumbnail. "They're Grand Hero Battles give them a break...except for Edelgard."

[@stevef5888]

I feel like Rhea is an extremely misunderstood character by a whole mess of people. This is a character who is literally the daughter of the world’s god. The creator diety Sothis. She served as a guardian over mankind. That same mankind rose up and slaughtered her mother, again, GOD, all of her siblings, and used their bones as weapons. Then she had to go into hiding for centuries while she figured out what to do. This is a woman that lives every day in fear that her secret will be exposed and she will be hunted down and killed. She also now lives in a world that had a confirmed god( and now does not. She’s not just trying to revive mommy, she’s trying to bring god back to the planet. Imagine how crazy that would be here? If some god came to earth and we all knew and worshiped their knowledge and grace, and then a bunch of people killed then. A few humans is nothing to get that back. Heck the Aztecs sacrificed thousands to their gods and they couldn’t even have tea with them! Did Rhea love her mother and want her back? Of course, but it wasn’t just her mother. It was the mother of all life. And she couldn’t tell anyone as she was in hiding what she was trying to do. Like this isn’t nergal wanting his dead wife back. This is a priest trying the resurrect actual benevolent god. And the whole time she’s being hunted like a dog by the very people she’s trying to save all while being entirely on her own. I sympathize mightily with Rhea. She’s not perfect but she was trapped and desperate to be free, and the only way was to bring back god. Girl could’ve easily hid in the hills, turned into a dragon and abducted people on the road for her experiments. But no. She still tried to help people and held together an extremely divided continent through her own politics and status. And to top it off she saved Byleth by putting sothis inside him. Otherwise Byleth was stillborn. I’m rambling but my point is that Rhea comes off as an evil church lady bad character instead of a terrified, powerful, and loving person who just wanted to have her god back on earth, and unlike the bad guy gods, hers is benevolent and provably a thing Fodlan needs back. Desperately

[@firenze6478]

How is zephiel higher than edelgard? At least she isn’t trying to wipe out humanity and only has a few years to live

[@aloysiusokon3334]

And how is Medeus more sympathetic than Rhea, for that matter?? Rhea's not trying to start a war to subjugate or wipe out humanity, she's trying to prevent a war if anything. And she's a LOT more open to seeing reason than Medeus is.

[@firenze6478]

@@aloysiusokon3334 she and edelgard are literally mirrors to eachother. They should be the same rank wherever they are

[@hanzou1238]

@@aloysiusokon3334 She kills anyone who opposes her and burns people alive in CF endgame. How is that more sympathetic than Medeus?

[@hilgigas09]

@@hanzou1238 She killed people who made at least three attempts on her life and thought their position as priests would protect them from retribution. Sending Christophe (1), Lord Lonato's militia (2), Holy Mausoleum raid (3). To her it's not just to behead Kostas, a low-level thug, but spare someone who raised an army to kill her people. She sees no value in arbitrary titles when it comes to murder and banditry.

[@aloysiusokon3334]

@@hanzou1238 Because you sided with the person who started a war of conquest against her and the rest of the continent in that route- and note that that's at the endgame, after 5 years of war, I believe. Marth isn't trying to conquer the world for the "greater good". Also, that's only for the CF. In the other routes, Rhea's way less bloodthirsty and far more willing to own up to her failings and give up power. Medeus never does that.

[@raho500]

I would say Zelgius actions were immorale for sure, but it gave Ike an goal in life to become a stronger and grow as a person and swordfighter. He was not just a villian, but also an rival to Ike. (Since Boyd sucks lol) Ike always struggled to come up to his fathers expectstions but also idolozed him, but when he did, he suddenly had to be stronger and grow without excuses which pushed him further. Ike also stated that Zelgius was his last teacher and he was thriller to fight him again, as Elincia mentioned the BK survived. And since Zelgius' actions only effected Ike and Mist personally (I exclude the Greil Mercs cause they participated as a party on the war) I would consider him a somewhat sympathetic villian, since he never harmed innocent people. I mean he was a knight after all. I know you mentioned that it's kinda weird, but that what the narration says lol.

[@makohidari4723]

Lyon is an interesting case. in one route. he is completely taken over by the demon king. in the other. he let the demon king corrupt him but stayed in control. Making him a bit harder to judge. Also. it was not just him losing his dad but he also found out most of Grado would be destroyed by natural disaster if he didn't do anything. Berkut... he truly was tossed under the bus by his uncle and pretty much just lost his mind in the end when he thought Rinea turned against him. Does not excuse him killing Rinea but still. As for Nergal. He left his kids behind and instructed them to use the dragons gate if he did not come back in time from saving his wife. Needless to say. he failed to save his wife and came back too late for his kids. Later. after meeting Athos and learning how to steal quintessence from knowledge in Arcadia to save him kids. He just went too far and was struck down and banished. Soon after. dark magic completely corrupted him. One can argue how much was his own doing and how much was the dark magic. Especially his actions in Arcadia. maybe Eremiya from FE12 and Raydrik from FE5 should have been on the list too..

[@lpfan4491]

Eremiya is kinda unratable for all intends and purposes. Like, do we rate the original Eremiya or the one we fight in the story? One is the sweetest woman ever but got overwritten by brainwashing only to be briefly restored later to be taunted and the other may as well be an AI programmed to only know to be horrible because she is a brainwashing-induced rewrite by Gharnef. There is really no meaningful conversation to be had, one version of her is in very sympathetic by default and the other in irredeemably unsympathetic by default, and neither is anyone's fault except the evil wizard who is so unsympathetic that he needs a new tier at this point.

[@AceAviations2]

Was he really in control though? It's very possible that he was being manipulated in Ephram's route, in other words he was basically a puppet to the Demon King and doing his bidding while believing that he wasn't. Imagine not truly being in control of your own actions while thinking that you are, the thought of that is horrifying.

[@lpfan4491]

@@AceAviations2 Ephraim route definitly muddies the waters and tbh, that's not really a good thing.

[@pandabanaan9208]

@@lpfan4491 honestly I think ephraim's route inherently makes lyon so much more interesting, instead of the way too overused innocent possessed victim storyline they actually made lyon have some agency and be partially in control, he is essentially trying to overthrow the demon king just so he can look more impressive to ephraim wich is a dynamic that's very unique for the possessed villain trope, very few times does the possessed character actually get to rebel against his possesser and even fewer do we see the possessed try to out villain the ancient evil villain, to this day lyon is still one of the few examples of the possessed villain trope that actually tried to do something different and not follow the same overplayed story beat for beat

[@lpfan4491]

@@pandabanaan9208 That would be cool. If they didn't pull a "nuh uh, he is not in control actually" at the 11th hour. Ephraim mode straught up does not know what to say, so it says muddied gibberish. Eirika's story is pretty stereotypical, but playing it straight allowed for them to craft something of quality. Being "unique" does not mean being good, it's like the plottwist idea of "You thought I was good? Nah, trolled" that is getting deployed way too much in recent years.

[@necrosteel5013]

16:14 i think he is somewhat sympathetic. He was branded and was alone as a person. He probably defines himself in his ability to fight because he trusts nothing else. It happens to men who lost faith and trust in all others and thus substitute and cope by placing that trust and faith in non-human things... Things like culture (fandoms, groups, basically shared values based on an abstract principle or idea). His culture is that of battle and he devotes himself completely in it.

[@themicrowaveableslayerofthots]

Honestly I agree with a lot of this list with most things being pretty minor, but the main differences for me are that I would put Sephiran up a tier as watching the genocide of your people is something that I could easily see why you’d want the world to end and while it isn’t excusable, especially since he can join you kind of, I think he at least deserves some sympathy. Then for Nemesis, I don’t know if I made this up or what, but I always assumed that he did what he did in response to oppression from the children of the goddess and the depiction we see is really just the church doing it’s thing, but I could be wrong. Then the big one for me is Edelgard. Not because what she did was right or made even a bit of sense siding with those who slither, but because you need to keep in mind she did this all when she was a child. She saw pretty much all of her family wiped out and was tortured herself and, being that she’s a child, only saw one way out which was to side with the smaller force that she thought she could take out afterwards. Well thought out? No. But I think she deserves at least some sympathy considering her situation.

[@yamatoko219]

One of the biggest problems Modern Fire emblem has with it's villains is that they are either completely irredeemably evil. Or they are supposed to be sympathetic and they inform us of why they are evil...but we simply don't see enough of it. We never get a frame of reference. I want to see more villains like Duma, Nergal and Arvis. And less villains like Sombron and TWSD.

[@lpfan4491]

The weird part is that they try to give Thales a frame of reference, like 10 seconds before Azure Gleam is over. The idea they went with could have even gone somewhere, if it didn't come 2 whole games too late(and there wasn't dialogue saying even other members of TWSD are iffy about him), because it actually fits prior lore.

[@mobgabriel1767]

"its never said why dragons go mad in the FE universe" skill issue, just don't be a dragon in arkanea

[@mobgabriel1767]

this meme was made by the elibe gang

[@lpfan4491]

It still makes me crawl up a wall when some people say that Elibe dragons also have degeneration, just because Fae is partially based on FE3 dragons visually. The thing people mistake for degen is that they would have straight up died if they didn't create dragon stones.

[@Hilversumborn]

It’s basically dementia

[@chaosprime1629]

lekain also deserves to be on the list. he is arguably the main villain despite sephiran being the puppet master in the end but the former is the reason for the latter's descent into madness.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

I would also say that Thales and Nemesis are irredeemably unsympathetic because Thales sends Nemesis with the 10 Elites to slaughter the Nabateans in the canyon of Zanado. Nemesis and the 10 Elites then drank the blood of the Nabateans they killed, and the Agarthans fashioned their bones into weapons. They drove Rhea to madness and to commit the horrific acts that she does. It's also Thales that forced Edelgard into becoming what she is. As much as Edelgard chose to do a lot of horrible things in 3H, Thales was the puppetmaster. I realized this whenever Edelgard talks about Rhea and the Nabateans in Crimson Flower - I can't tell if it's her talking or some form of Agarthan mental conditioning.

[@goroadachi9489]

It’s moreso that Edelgard only knows so much, and has a harder time getting access to the information that Claude was able to get his hands on. Even Hubert was barely able to get part of the puzzle. That combined with the fact that she had to keep the support of the soldiers, puts her in a bad spot.

[@nickvalin5543]

I'd raise Berkut, Rhea, and the Burger King up one tier and Edlegard and Lehran up two. Crazy to put Edlegard in the same tier as the evil sorcerers with no backstory or motivation.

[@Tizi1999]

Nergal is by far one of the best Antagonists they ever made. His backstory being locked behind multiple playthroughs, secrets, and gaidens was a great choice.

[@ManaNek]

I thought this was an insightful, well thought out, and concise overview of every villain 🎉