How the Church Fathers Viewed Icons And Relics

[@littleboots9800]

This Church Fathers series you've done is the best thing you have ever done in my opinion! I have absolutely loved it. Thankyou so much.

[@theologymatters5127]

Thank you guys so much for doing this series. I pray the Lord bless you in your giftings and use you much.

[@francisiii6315]

Please do invite Jonathan Pageau regarding icons and relics. As much as the reformers had a point in accusing the Roman church on extreme icon veneration i.e., statuary, they also went to the extreme side to the point of having a phobia on all images.

[@littleboots9800]

That would be great!

[@reubentobias2512]

Speaking to the dead and asking the dead to pray for you in still communicating to the dead

[@LucasSheldon]

The Second Council of Nicea actually legislated FORCED iconodulia. See "Former Priest Critiques Orthodox Theology (with Joshua Schooping)", Truth Unites.

[@believer8793]

Hearing these men conversation and perspective shows me the importance of a 1st century Church when not everyone had access to a Old and New Testament. But depended on the Church…

[@MarkRidlen]

I appreciate y'all's insights on this matter. Love this program!

[@MyHomeYourHomeOurHome]

Thank you so much for this series! Would you consider revisiting this topic (Church Fathers) and/or these hosts again in the future?

[@tombidlack5472]

Not Catholic, but I appreciate true believers in all denominations. We will not be separated in the Kingdom.

[@CG2589]

Matthew, Joshua and Father Ron got their money's worth. Every episode was well over the hour. Thank you guys for all you did. PS- We have to do a follow up to find out if Father Ron wore the clerical collar on the date with his wife.

[@AdrianGLawson]

In Orthodox Lutheranism, we believe icons are useful in focusing our minds and hearts on Christ. They don’t have any special power and we shouldn’t worship them, but we should treat them with respect (as you would a photo of a loved one) and let them hold our attention on Christ.

[@emmanuelmasih2296]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣more excuses for idolatry ... Scripture and sound doctrine is what's needed for focussing your mind and hearts on the true Christ revealed in scripture not some physical form of Christ of some man's imagination...

[@AdrianGLawson]

@@emmanuelmasih2296 icons aren’t necessary, they just set the atmosphere and hold our attention. Like having upbeat music and themed artwork at a gym. If you don’t like them you don’t have to have them. Happy thanksgiving!

[@emmanuelmasih2296]

@@AdrianGLawson lol... I was born into an orthodox family. I have seen up close the veneration of icons for more than 4 decades. Icons are another detestable idolatrous pagan abomination not to be found in the religion of faith revealed to Abraham

[@AdrianGLawson]

@@emmanuelmasih2296 I’m not orthodox though

[@emmanuelmasih2296]

@@AdrianGLawson it don't matter eitherway... Icons do not belong in the new covenant of the new testament church in the religion of Abraham. The old covenant was fulfilled in Christ.

[@Ginger_H]

One interesting thing to consider is that the exact same images of Mary and the saints that that catholics currently use in their worship are used in Santeria and other satanic rituals. One must ask yourself why.

[@Cynical_B]

This is not an argument. Evil can use good things for bad deeds.

[@theologymatters5127]

Ya, so I'm so glad for the clarity I've gotten on veneration of the saints and such. But I'm gonna go with a hard no for myself 🙄

[@emmanuelmasih2296]

Perfect.. ecumenism be damned.... For what light hath fellowship with darkness... Scripture is the final authority...

[@emidior7948]

Token Eastern Orthodox viewer present.Hats off to RR for covering the subject1

[@PoesieUndGlaube]

Tuning in, I was reminded of Augustine: "The New lies in the Old concealed; the Old is in the New revealed."

[@samiapassos9659]

I'd love to know the reason for the rosary, to pray the rosary. If you guys could do an episode on this.

[@annknox3798]

What about the communion of saints? These symbols are to increase our faith. When i learned that God has And wants a family, i feel so happy about my newfound love for Jesus Mother Mary. She is our Mother in our new born again place as Christ’s Body. If i ask a Saint for help i am not talking to a dead person, the resurrected Saints are part of my family. I just love having this big spiritual family……they are now alive, Jesus from saved us eternal death. Also a verse Work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling.

[@heidibrown997]

You got a point there. However the Word that we love says, there is one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus the righteous.

[@sarahkokura6349]

Murdering other christians because we do something different…not okay. That’s also not church discipline. That’s to our shame for sure. I think of it as also a stirring of faith. And I can see asking a saint to pray for me. If I’m all alone, no one around I can rally the saints to pray to do war. I’m not talking to them per say. I view it as no different asking my friend to pray. The cloud of witnesses viewing us. I’m not saying I have it down. I could be wrong. Im working through it but I can see that perspective.

[@heidibrown997]

Well, I can't do it, but did not Jesus say, God is God of the living, not of the dead? David is alive, Joseph etc is alive. . And I just have to go with the Word that there is ONE Mediator between God and men, Jesus Christ the righteous.

[@Lillaloppan]

Thank you so very much 😊🙏!

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Icons and relics help to bolster one's faith in make believe. They are just ordinary objects until you empower them.

[@solid3stfaith458]

It seems to me that the golden calf was a god that the Egyptians worshipped, the commandment to not make images and not bow down and worship them was because they were gods of other nations there for God did not want to be associated with these gods. GOD did not have a problem with the ark of the covenant or icons of angels or bronze serpents more can be said but I leave it here..

[@michaellns2860]

If you read the early Church fathers, it differently Catholic.

[@believer8793]

What caught my attention is you guys are constantly saying,” To Me there is nothing wrong with what WE do this in our Protestant churches.” But does not this make you the standard of what is idolatry? With all do respect. Then we must do away with any symbols, wether that be a fish or cross sticker etc…

[@jeremyweimer8926]

Hold up... JIM LEAVES PAM???? More seriously, this is a tough space. That line is hard define, so I would rather error on the side of caution. I'm not as cautious as Josh though. When I watch the chosen or other things that depict the reality of Jesus' life, I personally have no affections or image stuck in my head of the images or actors myself. Rather, my thoughts are lifted to Heaven.

[@nathanclark2600]

I think there’s a significant difference between art created to honor God, art for the purpose of remembrance/education, items used for the purposes of worshipping God and icons that you directly venerating/worshipping. There’s nothing wrong with religious art or depicting Jesus but ascribing a special presence of God to an item is wrong to me. And certainly worshipping things connected to saints/Mary/anything other than God is straying to close to idolatry.

[@paullaymon5746]

Great perspective until you said that “he will always be a Jewish man in Jewish flesh”. “Jewishness” is passed down from a Jewish father. Christ did not have a Jewish father. He had a Jewish man who adopted him. Therefore, God the father could have made Jesus have any appearance that he so desired. This could be the reason why it was prophesied by Isiah that the messiah would appear “uncomely”. It didn’t mean Jesus was ugly, it could mean He appeared “mixed” and didn’t not appear as most Jewish males. This could also be the reason why many in the Jewish, Greek, and Roman communities accused Mary of adultery with a Roman soldier. Why? Because he appeared “Europeanish”.

[@littleboots9800]

But didn't they follow matrilineal descent after Sinai?

[@paullaymon5746]

@@littleboots9800 Father Abraham?

[@heidibrown997]

​@@littleboots9800that's what I believe also.