How The New Overground Colours Were Designed ( 2024 Tube Map )

The London Overground lines on the New 2024 Tube Map have been given six new names and six new colours. I caught up with Jon Hunter - Head of Design at TfL - for a deep dive interview to talk about the names and colours of the design process, and all things Tube Map design ...
TfL Press Release with download links to 2024 Map : tfl.gov.uk/modes/london-overg...
Additional Camera - Dan Haythorn
Further Reading:
DNCO Partners : dnco.com/thinking/dnco-partne...
Creative Review : www.creativereview.co.uk/tfl-...
TfL The New Line Names : tfl.gov.uk/modes/london-overg...

[@oldtechnobodycaresabout]

I still can't forgive them for not adopting goblin

[@HjjMemes]

Fr 😢, they have hurt all londoners. I'll certainly not forgive Tfl for this...

[@eastlancsesteem]

I can’t forgive them for giving all the lines trashy names.

[@jezp1976]

@@HjjMemes Even the colour of the Goblin Line is Goblin Green

[@ludwigtails]

Same with Watford DC, West London, East London Line… I dunno what else

[@davidbisping5000]

Utterly stupid names

[@Nick-kz6dg]

“We had to visualise how the line names would be used in daily life” Maybe didn’t visualise enough: “Yeah I’m riding the Suffragette!”

[@MarloSoBalJr]

I don't get it myself. Just giving the lines a simple "letter" based name would have been more practical than the names themselves

[@SDCentralTSV]

@@MarloSoBalJrthat would have been too out of left field for London lol. Considering that it seems to be a tradition to give lines actual worded names, rather than names which could be considered mere labels. Not that those are bad.

[@keithparker1346]

I don't think the Suffragettes were anti sex but it brings to mind the Suffer A Jet Movement bit in Blackadder Goes Forth

[@abigailcooling6604]

Well, nearly everything in English can have that sort of meaning if you try hard enough...

[@keithparker1346]

@@abigailcooling6604 Cockfosters

[@Eddyspeeder]

I just love how Geoff keeps connecting with people who are so instrumental to everything surrounding TfL, but who maybe never realised how much their daily business is fascinating to tens of thousands of people! Thanks for spotlighting this brilliant designer, Geoff!

[@felixjohnson2693]

geoff your interview technique has come on leaps and bounds over the last few years. well done, excellent piece

[@geofftech2]

Thanks Felix! 👍👍😀

[@Nooticus]

Agreed

[@mrtnsnp]

Geoff nerding out on design for 20 minutes. I'm all here for it.

[@NikolaHoward]

Me too!! 🎉

[@ElshadKarbasi]

11:43 “that’s why we’re not going to have a Mildmay roundel”… agree, which is exactly why Crossrail should’ve been kept for roundels and the system name, with Elizabeth line being the line name. The current setup makes no sense!

[@k4r4m_29]

I agree, I’ve also been thinking the same

[@HarrowwInk]

hopefully when crossrail 2 finally happens that'll be the case?

[@simonwebb1472]

@@HarrowwInk and when we renationalise Thameslink that can go in there too.

[@harrh4528]

that's a very good point I never thought of that

[@KittyLovesFerries]

@@simonwebb1472 or maybe it just becomes a part of TFL (regulaton) like the overground but still privately owned

[@robertward7449]

Fascinating to learn just how much effort goes into it. TfL takes design VERY seriously - and quite rightly

[@not_lewis2649]

the windrush line

[@justmeajah]

That's why he said, the world is looking at us!

[@sethmoreton1826]

Yet there isn’t an orange line at all

[@Thomas15]

@@sethmoreton1826 He explained why.

[@camotech1314]

The tourists are going to be confused

[@life.with.sabine]

Finally more background behind the change.

[@DanLoudShirts]

Excellent detailed video. Brilliant explanations for everything going on. As a graphic designer by trade (a long time ago) They've done well in trying not to have much colour clash on a map that is beginning to look like playschool plasticine worms! There'll always be some controversy about line naming which will probably ruffle feathers on those with right-leaning sentiments. Good job by TfL and your presentation on the subject. 👍

[@highpath4776]

I will accept that the line (or more accurately Service names) have been chosen by, and justified by Londoners. I think the Suffragette Line however has in-baked ignorance and not properly fact-checked ( vs Suffragists in east london ), and the Mildmay mis-geographicalness might be a wrong kind of error - one would like to see some more of the detailed thoughts and indeed the names presented wider to London before full on implementation. I dont think I have problems with the colours , though the Chingford etc services to me would have been better out as TfL rail again in a new way - unless the Blue might be of use in Crossrail 2 ?

[@femboichik]

Well, i'm in left and these names doesn't make any geographical sense, which is very important for people who isn't so familiar with city. I don't think there's politics involved

[@LuxFlyer]

I've really enjoyed your slightly longer recent videos. Thank you for them. More of these longer form interviews please with people who have something interesting to say. They're fascinating.

[@geofftech2]

Thank you! Yes, I’m starting to lean towards doing more stuff like this …

[@edbrown1121]

‘Which one would you keep orange?’ The Windrush (former East London) line seems like the obvious choice.

[@hannahparsonson7272]

Every overground kine

[@garrygreen3210]

Outstanding Geoff. As a cartographer, I fully appreciate the effort needed to achieve this along with the other wider tfl map complexities.

[@jameswatt8168]

The trams were originally different colours when it launched in 2000 Yellow was Wimbledon to Elmers End Red was Beckenham Junction to West Croydon Green was New Addington to West Croydon The separate coulors disappeared around 2008 when the routes were restructured & TFL took over the running of the service.

[@highpath4776]

The entire service pattern is changeable , and is changed during track works or other disruptions , the local two shades of Green map for normal present day services works fine

[@andrewbeadle9168]

same for the DLR !

[@RunawayTrain2502]

I think you could treat the tram as a single "Line". Like the District.

[@michaeljohnson9421]

Re. white as a line colour: this was actually done years ago, when the Underground map only featured a couple of British Rail lines. The North London Line, which was more or less treated as an honourary tube line at the time, was shown in white, but outlined with a thin black line, so you could actually see it. I always thought the trick worked surprisingly well. And talking of how the colours work under different types of lighting - is it me, or is the circulating area at the top of the stairs at Edgware Road lit very oddly, with a weird greenish light? I've got good colour vision, but to me the tube map colours look very strange under that lighting.

[@highpath4776]

Other White Lines I recall were the Northern City Line (in heavy black line when run with LT Trains) , The Waterloo and City Line and the central core - maybe more (Elephant/LBridge to West Hampstead ?) Thameslink (were there more and not always on all Tube Maps - When Did the Gospel Oak to Barking get added ? I dont think the Kenny Express was ever on a Tube Map (it was barely on any map)

[@Cayotan]

Not allowed to have anything white now

[@DavidShepheard]

8:27 Considering that the "Head of Design" knows there is going to be a "big learning phase" why did TfL literally toss out all of the existing names used for these lines (like "North London Line", "East London Line", "Goblin" and "Harlequin Line") and bring in: * Two different names starting with "L" (Lioness and Liberty) that will get confused and * Two different names starting with "W" (Windrush and Weaver) that will also get confused. The Bakerloo (Baker Street and Waterloo), Victoria and Picadilly lines all have names that reflect an actual station (or two stations in the case of the Bakerloo Line) that a line goes through. It was a mistake for TfL to pick six totally abstract names.

[@mst4309]

I’m all set with the new names and colours, except the lack of orange and the missed opportunity for Goblin.

[@rosiefay7283]

The Lioness line's got a shade of orange. Not the same shade as before, but still somewhat orange.

[@howardrisby9621]

50% with you. I'm OK with the official explanation concerning orange.

[@highpath4776]

@@howardrisby9621 also gives "wriggle room" if a new line or service comes into TfL full served or part served services, or the proposed "Overground" Extensions need further separating - Brentford to Brent Cross West ( though that feels like The Brent Line in a shade of Blue ).

[@LUtrainwizard]

​@@highpath4776 Brent line sounds like a great name for the West London Orbital I can't believe I've never heard that suggested before.

[@LuperSoop69]

​@@highpath4776maybe for if & when superloop appears on the map as the SL10 is orange. However, the Windrush Line colour & SL1 colour are extremely similar (like 2 shades apart), but luckily the SL1 doesn't run near the WL

[@jamieharle6923]

Geoff, my 8 year old son has had a tough time recently, but remains your number 1 fan. We travelled to Highbury and Islington to track down the guard mentioned about this map and get the our own paper new tube maps. We'd love you to post more about your future public engagements so we can come and share experiences. We've also recently gone to Ash Vale ticket office to demand a ticket to North Camp! (10 min 30 sec walk)

[@florianb81]

Love these behind the scenes Videos great insights. Greetings from Germany

[@peeky44]

Great to hear this Geoff. The detail on how they choose line colours is very welcome. However, the current design of TfL's actual lines almost seems intended to cause confusion. It is a real missed opportunity that TfL continue to only have 3 (meaningful) categories of line: - solid: underground. Good. Everyone can understand this. - cased with occasional solid bits: mainline rail service not run by TfL. Oddly specific but at least this is clear. - cased: literally every other sort of rail transport in the capital. What a mess. If the pretence that this is a successor to the Beck Tube Map is to be continued, it needs to clearly: - show that the DLR & trams are a similar level of service - show that the Overground is it's own type of service - show that Elizabeth Line/Crossrail is a distinct type of service (perhaps also show Thameslink in the same style as it's a similar level of service, at least within zones 1-2). TfL need to look seriously at how Paris do this - thicker lines for bigger trains. If they aren't prepared to do this, then at least make the Elizabeth Line distinct from the Overground/DLR/Trams. The (very helpful) publicity describing CrossElizPurpRail as a new type of service for London is totally undermined by the branding.

[@Cowman9791]

Good point, it makes no sense to distinguish almost exclusively between 'tube' and 'not tube' (and 'not a train' of you count the cable car, but that shouldn't really be on the tube map in the first place). Thameslink was meant to be a placeholder I think, because it's not a TfL service, but if they were ever to take it other, one of the first tasks in the map demand would be to make the branding more similar to other services.

[@dasreicht]

Why is the size or type of service important to people trying to get around? when traveling from A to B, all that matters is whether there is a service, and how regular the service is. Any other detail seems unnecessary to me

[@peeky44]

@@dasreicht because a service that stops every 500 yards or less will take far longer to travel any distance on compared to a service that runs for a mile or more between stops, even if it runs more frequently. The DLR and Elizabeth Line (Crossrail) both connect Woolwich with Canary Wharf/Poplar, but unless you look very carefully at the map and compare number of stops involved, you might think their journey times are comparable (which they are not). Plus Crossrail has a higher top speed, so it's even faster than just comparing the number of stops might imply. That's just one example.

[@klausolekristiansen2960]

At least the Goblin is goblin green.

[@guillaumemaurice3503]

Thank you for the the video Geoff it was very interesting. ❤

[@simonbrodie3157]

I need to know about the triangle map!!! Genuinely fascinating insight. Thank you.

[@martinbeaumont1135]

Excellent video - thanks Geoff

[@IIVQ]

Now I want to ask about Triangle maps!

[@badbob1982]

Still can’t say I’m sold on some of the line names, but giving them their own colours and distinct lines on the map is a fascinating process. Expanding a map is a tricky business. If you want to see it done wrong, take a look at how Transport Scotland tried to expand the Strathclyde Passenger Transport rail map to take in the entirety of central Scotland. Under SPT, the Glasgow radial lines all had colours and names, that was lost with the absorption into ScotRail. The consistent use of angles was lost and some weird connections appeared with the creation of Airdrie Bathgate and the inclusion of Carstairs to Edinburgh services. The map of course serves its basic purpose, but the design isn’t nice.

[@MrJimheeren]

What a great video. Good information. Awesome to hear from the people who designed the whole thing. Thanks Geoff

[@fabiovranes3168]

No Goblin? Come on TFL!! Here are my ideas (Do not steel): - Goblin: Gospel Oak - Barking Riverside - Watford D.C: Euston - Watford - North London: Richmond / Clapham Junction - Stratford - Brunel: Highbury & Islington - West Croydon / Crystal Palace / New Cross / Clapham Junction - Trenorth: Liverpool Street - Chingford / Cheshunt / Enfield Town - Rominster: Romford - Upminster

[@filouzika]

Missed out on gobline

[@fabiovranes3168]

@@filouzika Gobline? you mean Goblin

[@michaelmiller641]

Absolutely brilliant! Thanks for that!

[@hughs591]

Very interesting video with fascinating interviews. And very professional production standards, I thought the tease section at the top was great, thank you!

[@cappuccino_please]

Thank you! As a junior designer and train enthusiast, this is so great!

[@a11oge]

wow Geoff - well done on what could have been a dull subject turning it into a fun video

[@hxduck]

As a deutan colourblind man (4.5% of the population of the UK to varying degrees) I can not tell at all the difference between the Lioness and trams on the map, nor the Liberty and Weaver lines. What’s somehow even more irritating is that the Elizabeth line which is one I use fairly regularly now looks indistinguishable at a glance to the aforementioned Liberty and Weaver lines. Really disappointing to see that TFL haven’t done more research into this issue and explored other non colour related ways to distinguish the lines. Luckily for me I use the underground all the time and very rarely need the map anymore. Still disappointing.

[@highpath4776]

I think you would have to be in contact with the likes of the RNIB and other disabled consulting groups to the Department for Transport, the latter did take care to try to promote full inclusivity in advertising and infrastructure colouring

[@thatsagoodbingo]

Awesome that TfL gave you so much time and just in general seems to make people available to you.

[@keithparker1346]

Geoff is like a living breathing advert for tfl so it's hardly surprising

[@user-mn4cc6bb7t]

Having dealt closely with the Graphic Support team where I work for years, a lot of what John said I have heard before but it is interesting to see it applied in a different context. A lot of thought goes into this sort of thing but sadly many people don't appreciate the complexities involved. P.S. I also liked John's 'man in a pub' outfit!

[@Big.Al.3]

Fantastic film, Geoff. Full of information of how things are worked through to the final map.

[@egemensentin]

Tube lines are solid, other non-Tube lines are hollow just like a tube would be. Awesome job, gents! Joking aside, London is still showing the world how it’s done. Salutations from this Istanbulite in Toronto.

[@MarkDibley]

Took a bit to find the map on the TfL site. TfL->London Overground->London Overground line naming->London Overground’s new look->Tube map with new designs It definitely makes the TfL overground routes look more of a legitimate part of the system rather than a reluctant add-on.

[@thomasday3256]

The Elizebeth line should be a larger line on the map, similar to what they do with the RER in Paris. I'd probably do the same with the Thameslink as well to signify these being mainline trains.

[@OnTheRailwayOfficial]

They are not really tho, they are metro and commuter trains.

[@alistairbell3935]

Here's the thing though -- I agree that Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line are RER-like. But genuinely, what distinguishes those from the Overground? They're all run by TfL primarily on Network Rail tracks, using full-sized trains. The only real difference is that Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line run through the middle of London. (And, for fare purposes, so does the Windrush Line at Shoreditch High Street.) (OK, TfL doesn't run Thameslink, but I can very much see that happening in the future. Although the idea of TfL roundels in King's Lynn is quite amusing.) My guess is that if/when Crossrail 2 opens, they'll bring them all under one branding -- quite possibly calling them all Thameslink. Although I hope the colour is Elizabeth Line purple rather than Overground orange.

[@OnTheRailwayOfficial]

@@alistairbell3935 The Elizabeth line is not run by TFL

[@thomasday3256]

@@alistairbell3935 I certainly like the idea of branding the Elizebeth line under the Thameslink banner, which then becomes the mode. The existing Thameslink could then have it's own line name, along with Crossrail 2 if that ever happens

[@jacobporrett]

A fascinating insight.

[@fen0221]

Next step shall be using shape-dotted lines and patterns like the national railways, and thicknesses. I think it’s great TfL makes these maps accessible for people with colourblindness (like myself). I haven’t seen it in full detail yet but it makes my excited

[@anschelsc]

In which Geoff Marshall is handed a tube map *by the mayor* and is far more excited about the map

[@alanclarke4646]

Mayors come and go, but The Map...

[@anschelsc]

@@alanclarke4646 I mean, the average mayor outlasts several tube map redesigns

[@alanclarke4646]

@@anschelsc it was a joke, you may have heard of them?

[@anschelsc]

Nope. I don't think they allow those on the Internet do they?

[@emmant1759]

Brilliant video

[@MrAsBBB]

Geoff what an absolutely fantastic, interesting and fun video. I even watched it in 24 degree C around a pool in Gran Canaria. Call me a geek or what? One of my other favourite channels has got me hunting for tiles on the underground now I will be looking for the new colour schemes . What fun!

[@DrumHeadV]

Geoff, I'm so chuffed about the level of access you got. Such an informative video. Keep up the good work! 👌

[@MartinBuckland]

Fascinating!

[@DaveDVideoMaker]

I will call the overground lines by these names as long as I live: North London Line (Stratford to Richmond / Clapham Junction) Watford DC Line (Euston to Watford Junction) East London Line (Highbury & Islington to Clapham Junction / New Cross / Crystal Palace / West Croydon) Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside Line (GOBRLIN) Lea Valley Line (Liverpool Street to Chingford, Enfield Town and Cheshunt) Romford to Upminster Line.

[@realfrowz]

EXACTLY COME ON DAVE

[@HarrowwInk]

i'd agree except for watford dc line i'm sorry but i can't say watford dc over and over plus lioness makes more sense to me

[@simonstanley9]

@@HarrowwInk Watford DC line was called the Harlequin line in Network South East days. The shopping centre in Watford was called the Harlequin Centre when it opened. I don't know if the line was due to that or whether it took its name from a combination of HARLESden & QUEENsPark

[@Cactus732]

@@HarrowwInk how does Lioness make more sense? Even if you remembered how the lioness hype came about, why would you associate it with that line when Wembley central isn’t even the secondary station for Wembley stadium.

[@HarrowwInk]

@@Cactus732 ok watford dc actually makes more sense maybe i was a bit dim there oops but even still watford dc is still a clunky name and i feel lioness rolls of the tounge better and still makes enough sense as is

[@stevieinselby]

The two questions I have for John are: ❓ Now that so many lines are cased, and so many stations are spread out, can we look at a way to make the connector markings between station blobs more distinct from cased lines? ❓ What's the triangle map?

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

We do not speak of the triangle map!

[@MarkBowerman]

@@geirmyrvagnes8718 Are you allowed to type about the triangle map? Please.

[@alanclarke4646]

The first rule of the Triangle Map: we don't talk about the Triangle Map

[@AchyutChaudhary]

*Really faantastic interview with John & Julie Geoff as always...thanks for making us a lovely video!* 1 question I have always wondered is regarding the Thameslink - in that it was added to help customers travel suring the Covid-19 lockdown with more Step-free accessible routes & then to aid the Northern Line's closure in 2021 whilst the Battersea Extension was about to open - so why is it still here in 2024?

[@highpath4776]

Thameslink has been so on and off the map, maybe to make SE London look like it is on the tube (and I think it has more normal tube fares for the zones on it than the Cheshunt lines do !)

[@londonerwalks]

Some of the Weed (I mean Weaver) line waiting rooms have been taken over as impromptu coffee shops. Seriously though, what a great job Jon has!

[@yosh66]

17:20 how did "yeah im on the suffragette" survive this part

[@michaelocyoung]

The only person who should say that is a horse.

[@NikolaHoward]

Also, did no one at all think about the "suffering" puns that are inevitable... We know it's going to happen. We're Londoners, it's totally obvious!

[@LeornianCyng]

Such a cool video Geoff. I absolutely love the new names, it’s great that there’s a lot of our history behind those names. As a designer, the interview and deep dive into the design process was really fascinating.

[@jonathanirons231]

Cracking video Geoff. Detailed explanations, excellent questions and people who care about what they do. Thanks for your consistently high-quality content.

[@geofftech2]

Thanks 👍

[@BNCowell]

Absolutely loved this; design, colour, history - no notes! 👌👌👌

[@user-bo8wq4gd3v]

Here in Beijing at National Library station, three lines with different shades of green cross each other. I don't have a problem with this but I did once confuse gold with yellow on a crowded Line 10 service leaving me about 7 stops away from where I thought I was.

[@Dean0G]

Not exactly the best line names (Bring back GOBLIN!) but it will be easier for people like tourists or those who have just moved here to get around easier or know what part of the Overground is experiencing disruption

[@SampleTracks2224]

Yep. Daft for Londoners born and bred, but for tourists and immigrants who came last week, yar much better

[@mildlydispleased3221]

Mate, Goblin is a stupid name for many reasons 1. It sounds ridiculous 2. Nobody calls it that except a select few locals and train nerds 3. Every other name ends in "Line" and calling it "Goblin Line" wouldn't make sense

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

@@SampleTracks2224 In two years it will always have been called the Lioness line and it will always have had that warm yellow and obviously whoever is asking is some stupid non-Londoner who just came off the plane... 😅

[@Dean0G]

@@SampleTracks2224I think it’s helpful for everyone but the names suck lets be real here

[@Dean0G]

@@mildlydispleased3221Most of the names don’t reflect the local areas they serve so GOBLIN would’ve seemed an obvious choice had they actually consulted the locals

[@bobbartlett8537]

Excellent in depth video with loads of interesting details - great work Geoff

[@andymurphy661]

Very good

[@aleksandervaldmann]

Very interesting

[@burnleyfan11965]

They should have used the Goblin line

[@davidbull7210]

This is the video we've been waiting for. Nice one Geoff.

[@paupadros]

Should've been Goblin for the Gospel Oak to Barking and Brunel for the East London Line. I do like the colours though.

[@Samuelgamer4]

it would be interesting to have names for the DLR too

[@xaverlustig3581]

Incidentally this is reminiscent of the Berlin system map: The U-Bahn lines have had line colours assigned to them since the 1920s that are unchanged until today, but the S-Bahn's publications have always depicted their system in one colour, mostly green. Only when there were new designs launched in 1984 in West Berlin integrating the two (and extensively expanded after reunification in 1990) did the S-Bahn lines get assigned individual colours.

[@niallfinn600]

dunno if it would look good but feel like you could have had orange in the middle of the parrel lines that way it keeps branding the overground and makes it more distinct on the map

[@highpath4776]

would look like a mis-made liquorice allsort

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

@@highpath4776 Not beautiful(!) The sheer guts of saying that "beautiful" is a high priority in 2024, even if he immediately tries to soften the impact of that statement!

[@srfurley]

The trams used to have three, and later four, route numbers with different shades of green, but these were later don away with.

[@robinbebbington7004]

Good video Geoff! Nice to see London Overground getting different colours!

[@Ztbmrc1]

That's an interesting look inside London public transport map design and color design. I can say as being colorblind, I have some difficulties to distinguish colors on the London tube map. To know the name of the line you want to go on, you have to check the index on the right, and find the line on the map with the same color. Especially variants of green and brown make it difficult for me. The Paris underground map is easier. Every line there has a number and it is on the map on each end of the line.

[@zzzaphod8507]

That's the first time I've heard "Richard of York gave battle in vain", interesting topic for a video, thanks!

[@englishciderlover7347]

I'm pretty sure I heard that phrase at school nearly 50 years ago.

[@zzzaphod8507]

@@englishciderlover7347 In the US there's a fictitious guy named Roy G. Biv, and there's a song by They Might Be Giants of that name as well.

[@AustraliaWorldwideGaming]

so happy TFL are working with Dovetail Games on Train Sim World now hope for more overground routes soon after this one coming this week

[@walkingtheboogie]

As a professional cartographer, I found that fascinating. Thanks

[@JasonBerryman]

It'd be good if Thameslink were branded as a North/South equivalent to the Elizabeth Line

[@highpath4776]

Can you do a map vid ( with Foreman ?) on the back of the A-Z (and Diaries) black and white map evolutions - might be tricky to track them all down as I dont think there has ever been a national repostiory of diary editions as books or periodicals , but is each iteraiton licenced by London Transport and thus in the muesum or commerical archives ?

[@rubyrowallan8743]

Just reading my Weekend Travel Advice email from TFL and the whole London Overground section is under one orange banner. No mention of the individual lines so I can start thinking of the Chingford line as Weaver. Unfortunately none of the names means anything to me (having lived in London for over 50 years) but then "District" doesn't either so that's not necessarily a bad thing but we do need to start absorbing this so it become familiar. The one quick and easy thing would be to start referring to the new names on emails. That must be the simplest thing to update even if it is still under the main orange banner whilst the maps are changed but sub divided into the new lines.

[@darthdobson2]

where can I get the tote bag at 0:50? It looks great!

[@customtransport2777]

I will always refer to the Barking line as the GOBLIN no matter what and I’m also one of those people who think that these new names for the Overground lines are a bad decision as it will indeed confuse people which route is which

[@nigelfreeman6192]

For us locals that use the Romford to Upminster it will always be known as the push and pull line, not the liberty line. I can’t say that I like the names, but the colour choice I really do like.

[@lesleyvids2610]

You say that now but wait 15years and I'm interested if you still think like that

[@rynabuns]

@@nigelfreeman6192tbf Liberty's quite a good name considering it's in Havering?

[@nigelfreeman6192]

@@rynabuns well Liberty is one of the better names.

[@paulharvey9149]

Ah, but are they providing any sponsorship? See, they could have raised a few bucks by naming them after famous west end department stores, for instance... Liberty, Hamley, Harrod, Fortnum, etc.

[@joemoriarty3539]

I, myself, will still refer to it as the Overground. Except for Euston to Watford, which will always be the "DC" lines.

[@aldenhunt]

Thanks for bringing us behind the scenes of this redesign! It was always going to be a tricky assignment to work new colors into a map with so much going on, but I think they did a pretty good job all things considered. The biggest improvement IMO will be the improved in-network wayfinding and announcements. Also, lovely to meet you the other night, Geoff!

[@mplsmike4023]

Great interview with someone who has a true passion for their job!

[@GuyChapman]

Not just colours: colour blind people need shade difference. I like the double line idea. But this is a really compelling interview. Jon really knows his stuff. Only question is, which one is Liney McLineface?

[@simonadams71]

My question is, will the station signal and panels all be changed to the new individual line colours? Am thinking about Whitechapel where there are 3 different tones of orange on the platforms!

[@michaellittlejohns7968]

Great video Geoff

[@richardhughes515]

Absolutely excellent. What a guy.

[@ampwcars]

That tube map is cool!

[@DavidBeddard]

Fascinating! Thank you, Geoff! I still don't like several of the new line names, but at least it wasn't just £6m paid to some bonkers consultancy firm that led to them. They were the hard-won, least-worst, compromise options wrestled from a quagmire of opinions and practical considerations. Since they need names at all, they might as well be what they are. In 50 years, it'll only be people like us who even care why the names are what they are; to most people, it just be what they always have been.

[@fjuvo]

What shoud've been done - all different shades of orange!

[@intercity300]

We need the GOBLIN!!

[@Pikaling3408]

I need to get used to these names especially the Weaver and Suffragette Lines since they will be the closest Overground lines to me.

[@JP_TaVeryMuch]

7:27 Another thought occurs. Notwithstanding the relatively recently addition of the Trams and the DLR to the tube map, what about the simple expansion of the line itself? How do they work out which colour to use not knowing what's going to happen in future? Giving the DLR different colours à la Overground here, they'd have to be minded of a possible extension to Bank, or Charing Cross and the associated clashes there. They can't be in the situation where they have to recolour the whole line, can they‽

[@PokhrajRoy.]

I love Geoff not only for his content but because he’s ahead of everyone else when the merch drops. I admire that!

[@alexjensen1524]

My mom and I visited London from the US and she was very impressed with how well I navigated the Tube for us (in part because of your lovely videos Geoff). I’m happy to see some improvement in public transit somewhere in the world to make it more useable for everyone! Wish that attitude would come over stateside. (And yes I kept my mini Tube map and tourist Oyster card 😊)

[@Lodai974]

The DLR must undergo the same evolution on the plans to make its route more readable. On the other hand, the Elizabeth line should abandon the double parallel line for a single, full line, but wider than the metro lines, to bring out the heavy and fast metro character (like the RER on the Paris map) . As an anecdote, the double gray parallel line showed all the Transilien lines (line H to U) on the plans of Paris which was called the suburban network. In 2004 the plan was reworked adding lines and colors. The double line is left to the trams.

[@geirmyrvagnes8718]

I don't hate that! But even wider if you ask me. I ignored the line thickness in Paris completely on my last visit, but I see now that it is there.

[@Batters56]

I quite liked it when the DLR didn’t have its several routes like it does now and it was more pot luck!

[@neilsharman5410]

Try doing a colour map of all London's 500+ bus routes.

[@officialmcdeath]

DLR and Tram systems don't have service patterns set in stone, people don't want to have to relearn route names every few months - the way those 2 systems are configured allows for flexible service \m/

[@mildlydispleased3221]

Unless there's disruption, they certainly are set in stone, You're never going to get a tram from New Addington to Wimbledon or Lewisham to Woolwich Arsenal.

[@highpath4776]

@@mildlydispleased3221 Well you have got new addington - wimbledons (present service pattern is the most efficient use of present rolling stock), the bit that probably wont be used ( it can be but its a real trial) is Reeves Corner-George Street- Church Street-East Croydon in that direction only.

[@LuperSoop69]

​@@highpath4776it used to be New Addington - Wimbledon & Beckenham Junction/Elmers End - Croydon loop as two separate services, then reconfigured in 2016

[@DomNePlume]

Genuine qn: why continue to differentiate between Overground & Underground lines at all any more? It's all TfL now, all part of the same pricing structure, both are "underground" and "overground" and even share track and stations in various parts. For all intents and purposes it's all part of a single London public transport network. People just need to be able to work out how to get from their stop A to stop B: other than convention, what does it matter if that route uses "Overground" or "Underground" lines? Or for that matter, even DLR, Tramlink etc

[@jerry2357]

To me, the Weaver line sounds as if it's in the north west of England (River Weaver, in Cheshire).

[@Comegamewithme-le9eg]

I do have a question on the trains will they still say this is a London Overground service or will it say like this is a Windrush service or suffragette and all the others?

[@owenblank4247]

Love the background in the video. The map, the color choices. This is some in depth detail. Great Stuff. TFL, stupid names, these lines already had names, why not use them? I feel like you need to know too much London History to understand these.

[@aeronautic2374]

As someone who hates change, and is slowly accepting the new names, this video has shown me how much work goes into new names. I have a newfound respect for the new names now.

[@HenrysAdventures]

Interesting video! I'm all for the new colors but I'd rather we had stuck with the East London Line, The North London Line, The Watford DC Lines, The Goblin Line, The Lea Valley Lines and last but not least the Romford to Upminster Line. I know the latter name is a bit boring but you know where it's going, a new comer to London might not think "Liberty Line, oh yeah I need to go to Romford to ride it".

[@Nick-13]

Extremely interesting and fascinating. Would have preferred Suffragist Line, rather than the violent connotations of the 'Suffragette" Line