How 'The West Wing' Forever Changed American Politics | Crooked History

[@sergiomelendez285]

"In the future, if you're wondering: 'Crime. Boy, I don't know,' is when I decided to kick your ass." Bartlett is a writer's construct, yes, but he's a beautiful dream

[@4everyoung24]

And then the toss of the cigarette lighter to finish it off. I mean damn. Why can’t that be real?!?

[@p_nk7279]

That is an iconic moment. Egads, we had GW Bush for two terms - please forgive this country.

[@Allyphant2909]

I do have to counter the idea that not only are the characters pure and virtuous, but they get rewarded for it. Bartlet is an inconsequential president with very few, if any, real achievements. As Danny Concannon puts it, Bartlet played well-intentioned defence for eight years. One of the reasons I love the show is that it hits home how difficult and broken American politics really is. If Jed Bartlet and his administration can't make it work, who can? If being the perfect man to be president with an amazing staff isn't even enough to get anything done, what is?

[@adamhaycock7982]

Stopped economic collapse of Mexico, further opened China to the world, reformed social security to lay the groundwork for a government able to balance budgets, managed to get restrictions on the most dangerous firearms, and got 3 Supreme Court justices on the bench (whilst starting a new precedent to get principled judges rather than weather vane judges). I think they demonstrated well how the White House can still achieve good whilst being, understandably, limited by the economy and congress.

[@itsdantaylor]

Funny enough I see West Wing as......political pornography. Nothing wrong with liking it, but you HAVE to recognize it as a fantasy, why you like this fantasy, and how the real world does not reflect this fantasy. I find it funny even in Sorkin's political fanfiction, a Liberal president as perfect as Bartlett can't get anything done in Sorkin's world. It reminds me of someone's commentary on Newsroom. How Newsroom was how Sorkin wanted someone to deliver the news during the year prior to it's airing BUT because they wanted to have events from that year happen, even with his 'uber newsman' 'telling it like it is' and 'asking the hard questions' nothing changes in Sorkin's world. He's ultimately ineffectual too.

[@Mediaright]

Wait a sec... In TWW, they were more often than not, NOT rewarded for doing "the right thing." You actually look at their admin's record: it's pretty meh. They felt good doing it, but more often than not, it didn't get results. Not quite as "virtue porn" as some make it out to be.

[@WinstonTheFrog]

That's really true. I think nothing sums up the lack of optimism of the show better than the midterms episode when they're all sitting around on Josh's front porch: SAM: Twelve races, in none of them did the incumbent win. In none of them, did the party that previously held the seat win. You know how it went? Seven to five. JOSH: You're kidding. C.J.: Seven republicans and five democrats? SAM: Yeah. JOSH: The house stayed the same? Everyone looks at each other. JOSH: After four months and 400 million dollars, everything stayed the same.

[@talkingeco3734]

If I can be frank, I think TWW ruined an entire generation of Democrats, specifically conditioning them to accept and strive for less.

[@Mediaright]

@@talkingeco3734 I don't know if I'd say "ruined," but I think what it did was condition viewers to view politics pragmatically and with savvy. And the issue with pragmatism and savvy is it lulls you into cynicism... that everything happens by a written playbook. It zaps your imagination some. Even though in real politics, as we well-know, nobody can predict what will happen in the world tomorrow. A scream can kill a campaign and a candidate's flagrant harassment wins them into office. And a pandemic can spring up and swing it all. So you can't assume everything can be calculated. But due to a show like TWW, I think some convince themselves they know "how the game is played."

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

@@WinstonTheFrog But that is weird, "Everything stayed the same" is a MAJOR win for the incumbent Party as it usually slightly tips over in favor of the opposition. Painting it as a big loss and reason for dissatisfaction is the same bullshit the media pushed HARD over the governor's elections in Virginia and New Jersey, where the trend was pretty bucked too. McAuliffe had to fight TWO disadvantages in being a recurring candidate only one of which won in the last 70 years and that was 1969 and having run in a year after his party won/held the White House, which almost always fails with McAuliffe getting elected in 2013 ironically being the exception to the rule. He got SO close. Less than 2% of the votes given, which is the closest since 1983. So it WAS a big upset, just not big enough to win. And New Jersey "never" goes to the Party of the White House either, the Democrat winning there was sensational, something you would not know if you listened to the Media.

[@AlbertoGarcia-wd7sc]

@@Mediaright Nothing pragmatic about microscopic incrementalism.

[@jamesmarshall6619]

The continued shots at Joe Lieberman will never get old.

[@rebaonegill1694]

🤣🤣🤣

[@hansolowe19]

Unlike Joe Lieberman.

[@WinstonTheFrog]

You know one of the worst parts of growing up is realizing Rahm Emanuel really isn't Josh Lyman

[@Mediaright]

Ikr? Josh has all ten. 😉

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

@James Hagan an IDEALIZED combination of some real world people. One that was not the least bit corrupt.

[@p_nk7279]

I figured Michael J Fox was Josh Lyman.

[@NinaElizaStratton]

Fun fact about me: I've watched the entire West Wing series three times. The most heartbreaking part of 2021, besides the constant illness and death, is watching this and realizing how much of the romanticized vision of America and the American political process I've had to shed since the final episode of The West Wing. It turns out that America has always been racist, has always capitulated to the most brutal form of laissez faire capitalism, and her politics have always favored carpetbaggers and grifters over principled citizens. Thanks for the video, but I'm sad now.

[@CapitulationTrader]

You are not alone in your conclusion and sadness Nina.

[@verityviolet]

you arent alone

[@NinaElizaStratton]

@@verityviolet Thank you! ❤

[@podsaveamerica]

We're all right there with you on that, Nina. :(

[@PaperRaines]

You hear all these things about what it means to grow up and become an adult, but there's one thing nobody tells you. Growing up means learning that life is just the unrelenting management of massive disappointment. People aren't what you expected, government and big business have limitations, mother nature is trying to kill you literally every day of your life, biology is ruthless, and no matter what year it is there's a Joe Fucking Lieberman in the Democratic party So I'll agree with the rest of this comment thread to a degree; I understand the sadness, but I'm not sad. I'm what happens when your meter breaks and you need a new word to define what you're feeling. I've yet to find that word, but politics in America today can't get to me at this point. I just vote Democrat and see what happens next, because what else are you gonna go until you die?

[@PaperRaines]

"Joe Fucking Lieberman" is the primal scream we all needed

[@ebybeehoney]

This generation it's "Joe Fucking Manchin".

[@PaperRaines]

@@ebybeehoney I think more "Kyrsten Fucking Sinema" for this generation, but you won't get an argument out of me about that

[@alexigra2235]

For sure. We get what Manchin is doing. The original BBB may well have destroyed his state. It’s Sinema who is truly at the mercy of her donors.

[@baylinkdashyt]

Precision F-bomb Strike.

[@Fnorder23]

"West Wing" was great, but I also greatly admired the optimism and charm of "Madam Secretary". Though I admit that I actually thought the domestic terrorism plotline was overblown back when it aired, boy was I wrong... I do hope other sensibilities of the series will prove prophetic though. For the world's sake, not just the US.

[@ER1CwC]

Madam Secretary is a wonderful show. Its writing, though, isn’t on the same level as the West Wing’s. Sorkin is Sorkin.

[@suzannemartin93]

I guess I need to watch Madam Secretary.

[@hugozaanen7587]

chapo trap house has a really cool series on all the presidents.

[@nickg5250]

There's a really great podcast called The West Wing Thing you guys would love it

[@DaddyHaxTV]

Weird how it slipped under their radar, seeing as they've done live shows with one of the hosts.

[@rickdlol]

lmao

[@thesoupin8or673]

Love that podcast so much! Josh and Dave are great. Also, The Dollop is a blast.

[@davidjones272]

I enjoyed the West Wing, but it's ultimately porn for liberals. Bartlet is presented as an idealised intellectual president. However if you look at the show he doesn't achieve anything of note: no lasting legacy, no structural changes. His administration make some of the right noises: acknowledging structural racism, institutional inequality, the failure of the war on drugs etc. However they don't do anything to actually correct these problems. This is liberalism in a nut shell, it tries to use the existing structures of society to help improve it. It can't or won't recognise that these structures need to be utterly reformed or in many cases entirely abolished. Obama was a real life Bartlet. He made all the right progressive noises, but did v little. Great rhetoric but ultimately it was empty. He recognised global warming, but increased fossil fuel production. He talked about ending wars but was as aggressive as every other president. He failed to push through legislative changes when he had a super majority. Ultimately he was a fraud.

[@Musematt11]

I'd say that Bartlett privatizing Social Security and sending US troops to occupy the West Bank would count as very lasting legacies.

[@kenlandon6130]

aca,dadt repeal, dodd-frank

[@LiamHaleMcCarty]

Wholeheartedly agree with the much needed message at the end. But I think this perspective thinks too little of audiences. We’re not stupid. We know The West Wing is an aspirational fiction, not a documentary. Saying The West Wing made people believe American presidents must be like Jed Bartlett is like saying the musical Hamilton made people believe English monarchs must sing goofy insults about the colonies. C’mon - we all know better, and you know it. And you didn’t even mention all the shows on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, most notably House of Cards, arguably as successful as The West Wing but with an extremely cynical view of politics. Audiences can binge scenes of Jed Bartlett or Frank Underwood without thinking politicians are either saints or sociopaths. Certainly, these shows influence public perception, but I think it’s belittling to act like they single-handedly determine it.

[@clbazar]

Y’all keep raising the bar. Beautifully done!

[@nomadpurple6154]

Yep, this is quickly becoming my favourite part of PSA

[@TheKijib]

The West Wing Thing podcast rly opened my eyes to the truth about this show

[@BayouBoogie]

1000% this. The myopia in these comments proves their point! (TWWT)

[@KennethSDyson]

no surprise it is not featured on the podcast shot

[@BayouBoogie]

They just released a podcast rebutting this drivel!!

[@SlimThrull]

@@BayouBoogie The trouble is that they are both right. Each ignores a big part of what made The West Wing the show it was.

[@grutarg2938]

Other here compared Jon to Rob Lowe. That means Dan Pfeiffer is Toby. Now I'm picturing Richard Schiff asking people to smash that like button.

[@chrissiek8706]

Who's Josh then?

[@grutarg2938]

@@chrissiek8706 Alyssa, of course.

[@chrissiek8706]

@@grutarg2938 if Alyssa is Josh, then who is CG Craig?

[@teamrocket5704]

the most unrealistic thing about the west wing is everyone waits their turn while talking

[@Konform2zoidberg]

Anyone else come here from the west wing thing

[@ryanedwards7487]

I wish The West Wing was real life personally. Give me a Jed Bartlett or Mark Santos to vote for any day. Hell, Arnie Vinick I’d take too. I didn’t agree with his stances in the AMAZING debate episode, but he was pro-choice (granted his VP was a slimy evangelical -_-) and while I didn’t agree with him on a lot, he was even keeled and a good man by-the-by. It’s why I appreciated John McCain: didn’t agree with much of what he thought, but I always knew he was doing what he thought was right for all of us.

[@kerzariz8717]

John Mccain did what was right for the Military-industrial complex. Maybe for the good of you Americans, but definitely not the rest of the World. His support for Hawkish Foreign Policy is stupid

[@thesoupin8or673]

If you liked the show and you're into podcasts, you should listen to The West Wing Thing with Josh and Dave! They analyze every episode from a writing and policy perspective and it's super interesting.

[@p_nk7279]

Until he picked Sarah Palin. He did what was worst for all of us at that point.

[@Tearloch]

Wonderful perspective, Jon .. you would bring dignity to politics should you ever throw your hat in the ring. Bravo from the frozen North.

[@Brook4ever]

Interesting about the Santos/Obama history. I was watching TWW a couple of years ago during the 2020 Democratic Primary and found the Matt Santos character to resemble Elizabeth Warren. On another note: I really wish the press at the WH briefings these days would question if there is a secret plan to fight inflation. 😂

[@dougmattis9293]

Good stuff, Jon. More West Wing, please!! (Haha)

[@thesoupin8or673]

If you liked the show and you're into podcasts, you should listen to The West Wing Thing with Josh and Dave! They analyze every episode from a writing and policy perspective and it's super interesting.

[@thompsonnoel]

Having been born in Spain, lived in Spain but with a US father, I could never watch an episode of that show without cringing. It is such transparent propaganda and such a glorification of a foundationally corrupt and oligarchical system that I will never understand its acclaim. I'm glad more people are starting to veeeeery slowly wake up to this realization. The fact that their was an ad in the middle of the video for something called Demz, which was the single most dystopian moment I have experienced in a while (up there with the metaverse announcement), is the cherry on top.

[@dontpanic1812]

Well done, Jon (and team). This short tidbit is going to inspire and clarify for years to come. Excellent contribution to our better angles.

[@JennyBrooksOfficial]

An interesting theory! Electability and defensive voting are absolutely important factors in politics, but we weren't shown a lot of evidence of correlation to West Wing. It is cool to look at the media trend toward political storytelling but, charisma and charm have always been a part of the equation. CGP Grey also has a video ("The Problems with First Past the Post Voting Explained") that goes so far as to say defensive voting is a result of our voting system rather than any particular events or candidates. But honestly any chance to talk about West Wing is pretty great.

[@brendabrass2715]

My Greek boyfriend told me they made it illegal for actors to hold public office. If true, that's a good law. Great one Jon

[@anniebell6846]

Does it count if my favorite representation of US politics is Veep?

[@freedomfighter4990]

No.

[@podsaveamerica]

You certainly have a better idea of what Washington is actually like in that case!

[@anniebell6846]

@@freedomfighter4990 🥱

[@nomadpurple6154]

I'm going to say that even if the US had Veep for its model it wouldn't make any difference. The UK had Yes Minister where the civil servants run rings round an incompetent politician so nothing ever gets done. And The Thick of IT, with lying spin doctors and more incompetence. And we STILL have that shape shifting creep, Boris Johnson 🤮🤮🤮

[@anniebell6846]

@@nomadpurple6154 I am originally from Zimbabwe infrastructure is key to good politics once that fails the whole government just turns corrupt . Tories and Republicans alike are tearing away at infrastructure to make systems that only support people who have . I like Veep better than the West Wing example because under all the satire we are shown the nuances and the fuck ups that Selina faces

[@ShadowIsSnarky]

Loved Jon doing this. I watched TWW during Trump's last 2 years (sporadically, when I needed to alleviate some stress), and I watched old Obama stuff when I needed to remember what a REAL president looked like...not just an imaginary one that kicked ass, but a real one.

[@PaperRaines]

I periodically watch Obama's 2012 DNC speech. Not to escape from Trump or the current day, just because that was a really great ideal for what this country could have become in that speech

[@AndrewMcColl]

I binged the series during our first COVID lockdown. Sure, it's basically a political fairy tale, but it's damn enjoyable. Especially with moments like "The Jackal".

[@junaidnoori1251]

Bartlett nominated an extreme right winger to the Supreme Court & assassinated the defense minister of another country. That sounds a lot like Donald Trump lol.

[@AndrewMcColl]

@@junaidnoori1251 wasn't the court appointment so he could also appoint the first female Chief Justice?

[@ShadowIsSnarky]

@@AndrewMcColl yes. And he also had another hard-fought/won liberal supreme court justice. Sacrificing one spot for a huge win in chief, and getting another one in, seems worthwhile. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@AlbertoGarcia-wd7sc]

It absolutely changed it. For the worst.

[@bbferreira78]

I actually remember them failing a lot. As someone that works in an area where imposter syndrome is real every day, this show made me feel ok about my own failures.

[@suemabeus4820]

Absolutely lovely, Jon. Thank you. 💜

[@andrewmastin4312]

It would be nice if the presidency was more “West Wing” and less West Palm Beach.

[@PaperRaines]

I'd take "24" over West Palm Beach to be honest

[@gailseatonhumbert]

Excellent piece

[@JoshAdams767]

This was great. Please make more of this content! Maybe "The Newsroom" or "House of Cards" next? The former shows the integral part that the media plays in politics, and the latter is a dystopian - perhaps realistic - version of The West Wing, which illustrates how things changed post-2008.

[@Handlingthisnomore]

Martin Sheen has a way with heavy lines. Power and responsibility and all.

[@baylinkdashyt]

"Yeah."

[@johnobrien7562]

you really half-assed this, didn't you? under Sorkin, they lost as much - or more - than they won, and their wins were almost always at a cost or pyrrhic. They were flawed people trying to do good, sure. and you want a television drama to show the boring parts?

[@nevm7469]

I think people sometimes tend to forget this in the age of Trump, but 2008 Obama was the biggest celebrity to ever grace American politics, bar none. Even more so than Trump. He drew larger crowds, he was more enmeshed in pop culture, he had more celebrity supporters, he had a much larger following not only here in the US but also globally, he created a much larger movement at the time, he won by much larger margins than Trump, he upended and reshaped the political landscape in a much bigger way in 2008 than Trump did in 2016, he was probably the best brander in the history of branding and he was completely ubiquitous in 2007 and 2008. There were more people walking around in Obama merch, with the rising O logo, in 2008 than there ever were people in red MAGA hats. I was a kid at the time, but I remember people talking about Obama in almost messianic terms at the time (including myself to an extent lol). Trump may be a circus act, but Obama was a total rockstar. It’s why Trump’s always been so insecure about Obama lol.

[@mariannerady1137]

I loved every second of this

[@thesoupin8or673]

If you liked the show and you're into podcasts, you should listen to The West Wing Thing with Josh and Dave! They analyze every episode from a writing and policy perspective and it's super interesting.

[@4everyoung24]

Toby Ziegler is my all time character crush. Also, my daughter is watching WW now. She loves it.

[@thesoupin8or673]

If you liked the show and you're into podcasts, you should listen to The West Wing Thing with Josh and Dave! They analyze every episode from a writing and policy perspective and it's super interesting.

[@CapitulationTrader]

Great work Jon

[@KipKaspertly]

You guys missed a title in your list of the highest acclaimed West Wing related Podcasts: The West Wing Thing. They even reviewed this video.

[@durizle265]

A good reminder to value policy and actions over everything

[@DanieltheTruebadour]

For my money, you could have spent some time with "My Fellow Americans" James Garner and Jack Lemmon, though I thought the non-president President, Kevin Klein's "Dave" was all-time, a worthy analog to Bartlett. In fact, they'd have made a great pear. ;-)

[@itsdantaylor]

8:59 I saw someone who was reviewing all the shows in the Sorkin-verse and they addressed the walk n talk. I don't know if this was the intention of the show, but a reviewer commented on when he switched from West Wing to the Newsroom and found it to be, not as engaging as West Wing. His reasoning was, the Newroom lacked the Walk n Talk. They surmised that the Walk n Talk engages the audience more so then just people standing around quipping at each other.

[@sharetarippatoe371]

And I loved Newsroom as well but it was not as fast-paced as The West Wing and that is really what hooked me during episode 1. I had to keep up with the dialogue and that intrigued me.

[@elaineburnett5230]

This piece. Jon, was absolutely 💯 great and I hope we create new and more realistic ways to review the credentials of candidates for all positions of elected office!

[@Tommyoda]

well said 💯

[@lydiasharp6070]

Well done presentation...thank you

[@blkcatzette]

Absolutely loved this piece Jon!!!

[@jdh8727]

Thanks for the education on “Demz”. Will spread the word to friends and family. Now we know not to give a single Dollar to any organization with Demz.

[@michaelcallas9463]

This was friggin great, folks!

[@mariesia0525]

Well done!

[@carolutley6523]

Love you guys ✌

[@z.j.maayan8458]

I started listening to PSA after the first time you were on The Daily Show because you guys reminded me of TWW team. (you are Rob Lowe, no?) Must you burst that bubble, John? Must you??

[@66zebulon]

If it were generally understood that TWW was an episodic TV series with fictional characters instead of a Netflix documentary, it would be harmless (and enjoyable) enough. Individual episodes, such as the one where Toby arranges a formal funeral for a homeless veteran who was wearing a coat he donated, are to me the pinnacle of what this genre can achieve. However, it's also telling that Sorkin himself left the project after 4 years because (in so many words) the powers that be decided to make a little more profit and a little less quality drama. Even in the Hollywood version of the presidency, reality intrudes

[@anthecrawford3957]

Andrew Jackson had a big block of cheese…most Aussies not tuned into the West Wing would have little historical knowledge of who he was. What a filibuster is, the significance of the arcane electoral college or what Foggy Bottom is, this show was my American political history teacher. I’ve seen Airforce One on the ground in Singapore and London ringed by Secret Service and came face to face with a Presidential motorcade cutting through a park in London carrying the Clintons who nicely waved to me, my friend and a homeless guy. Jesus it’s hard for an American President to get from A to B even in their own country and as I waved back slightly stunned we laughed that our own PM sits in the front passenger seat of his car…is this spectacle part of creating the idea of power, actually needed or a flare of the dramatic? No country on Earth has an election process of such length, expense and drama with candidates vying for huge crowds or switching to folksy state fairs. Debates in stadiums, red, white and blue supporters all hyped up while live polls consume media content create the required power politic TV drama, the players who can ramp up that entertainment quality like Trump is the downside. Whereas those with gravitas struggle to grab the same attention. The West Wing is a series of how I wish politicians and politics would be more like in America and over the last 5 years who could blame us.

[@jacobduncan2142]

I was totally confused at first. I was like, Jon Favreau? The director and actor? Then at the 9 minute mark I saw your picture with your name and it clicked. This cant be the first time its confused someone. 😂

[@ShaneDocPuff]

Do not fall on the Dem side of the house, but will have to admit this was a very well put together video and statement. Even though I for the most part did not agree with the politics of the West Wing and cringed at the end of the American President when he talks so kindly of the ACLU, I still consider both on the top of my favorite movies and TV shows, along with Dave, I absolutely love that movie. I can agree with both sides of the political spectrum in both the Dems and Republicans and I remember in the Clinton years when President Clinton and Speaker Newt had to comprise and so many great things came about, notwithstanding the Internet bubble I remember the 90s as a great decade to where the government had just the right amount of getting in our face but yet staying out of it. Nothing like today, ooh the good old days. Thanks for a great video, enjoyed your outtake.

[@suzettewilliams1758]

American gets the hopeful West Wing and in the the UK we had cynical Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister. It says a lot about a country's view of government.

[@medicinaemdia4895]

I will never forget from Designated Survivor the saying “congress and senate are in Imodium”.

[@caccarlac9014]

Beautifully said.

[@barefootalien]

Sadly, I think where we are is an inevitable result of the founders' ideals. America is the prototype, not the finished product. Democracy, as a concept and a science, has advanced _a lot_ since then. Yet the "founding fathers" baked in so much resistance to change that our system can't possibly hope to keep up with the accelerating changes in the world. Perhaps that acceleration is to blame, but I, for one, don't think so. I think it was always inevitable. You can't have real change when it's possible for a minority to simply refuse to allow the country to function by literally just being stubborn and grumpy and saying "no". Things like the Filibuster (basically requiring a 60% majority to do _anything)_ the enshrinement of the Constitution as basically a holy text, as if it weren't hacked and hewn from hundreds of disparate ideas in a process every bit as messy and chaotic as any negotiation is... I understand how and why these things came about, some deliberately, some simply through culture and the march of time, but they can't happen in a democracy that's actually capable of surviving. The US President has _way_ too much power. Not only that, he/she has way too much _responsibility._ It's a liability not only in that it's realistically too much for one person to handle, but in that it creates significant weaknesses. Weaknesses at the negotiating table (it disables the appeal to authority and the stalling tactics that come with it), weakness to the system being taken over by one powerful individual. Congress is _far_ too weak and crippled by their own procedure and doctrine. The judicial system works fairly well... except that, again, a minority can simply refuse to fill seats, full stop, until they have a supermajority and can stack the entire third branch of government with their people. (Though, personally, I think we have the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing backwards; it makes the state the de-facto enemy of every citizen even accused of wrongdoing, trying to prove that they did it and destroy their lives. In a "prove your innocence" system, the demeanor is the other way around, with the magistrate/judge looking for reasons to show mercy, or to be convinced that the person didn't do whatever they're accused of. On paper, our version sounds better, but the adversarial nature between state and citizenry that it necessitates was never going to be okay indefinitely, IMO). And, finally, sadly... America has always been a bit of a song and dance. Our people have an unusually high degree of... not patriotism, exactly, but something more naïve than that. Our people tend to think we're better, nobler, more moral, and more pure than we are. The truth is, we're a country because we invaded an existing native population, committed near complete genocide and displaced and stole the land of those few who remained. We then crossed the ocean again to kidnap people by the millions from another continent so we could enslave them. We're the only country _ever_ to use a weapon of mass destruction against a civilian population center. We were isolationist when it suited us, even as atrocities were committed all around us, and then colonialist when that became profitable. We arm allies of convenience (the enemy of my enemy) who then become terrorists and use those weapons against not only us, but the people all around them. This is who we are. We have not "lost our way" in the past decades. We have not "become corrupt". We always were. We just can't really hide it anymore.

[@jenkronstain]

I am a Wingnut. Just finished the last few seasons again. This is cool, thank you.

[@thesoupin8or673]

If you liked the show and you're into podcasts, you should listen to The West Wing Thing with Josh and Dave! They analyze every episode from a writing and policy perspective and it's super interesting.

[@Eline_K]

I feel like this video was made specifically for me, and I appreciate it.

[@HyperBart]

I placing blame on TWW for presenting an unrealistic fictionalized version of a president and his/her administration is kind of short-sighted. You may quote the number of Emmy's to indicate the show was popular, but if you did your research you'd know that the show wasn't actually that popular with mainstream audiences. The reason it was on that long is because it garnered a particular niche audience that NBC could adjust it's ads to, that was an audience that was generally well educated and well-off. It's that audience that likely was capable of realizing that they were looking at an idealized and fictional depiction. And as such I don't think TWW had as much impact with mainstream audience. In a lot comments here, it's also said that the show actually depicted an administration that quite often was stuck in the mud, and couldn't really achieve anything despite their intentions. Also lost in all this is what a great job the show did of educating the audience on particular policy matter. For god sake, in Mr. Willis from Ohio the show probably educated people better on the U.S. Census than any show/program probably could. Lastly, this show aired for many years at same time that 24 was on the air. If any show depicting American presidency/administration/government did a job of influencing mainstream perception, it was 24. And it did so in a way that it put fear in people, fear that there were terrorists everywhere, and also the fear that we see today and feed into conspiracy theories: 24 constantly depicting that the highest levels of government are somehow infiltrated and packed with bad guys/terrorists. That has been the real issue, not TWW.

[@evamallorca560]

Well said Jon , in every aspects of the way politically correct, I admire you and rest of the team of Crooked media, I watch more American politics as Canadian, interestingly😊👏😍🤩

[@SlainteMhath]

I started watching The West Wing in college, when I took my first Political Science class during the 2004 election, which took over that class. It was a great class because of it. I've watched the entire series probably 7-8 times now, and it's my favorite show of all-time. Certainly it depicted the ideal of what humans can do in the best of scenarios and intentions. It inspired me to be more involved in politics (for better or worse), for sure. I think there's a character in the show for everyone to which anyone could relate depending on the circumstance. It's hard to watch the show and not feel a sense of hope. Engaged comfort food.

[@Dancewithdre]

That’s my West Wing Podcast!!! Wingin It! 🤩

[@stephensmith8621]

A Bill of Rights is still just a Bill

[@alysa6642]

Can you please do this but with Veep

[@WilliamPitcher]

If this moved you, if you want something more for your country, please participate in making it happen. Voting, on its own, is not enough. Donate. Volunteer. Door Knock. Call. Write. Protest. Recruit. Lead.

[@MAYK1NG]

The walk and talk show.

[@kellymm7630]

Remember when they all fel against Bernie. That weekend

[@albertrodriguez4190]

I just acquired all 7 seasons. I'm in the 2nd season now. Cool show.

[@scarletevans4474]

10:00 DEMZ NUTZ!!

[@wolfpackjew]

I've heard cast and crew of TWW claim that they paved the way to Obama, but I hadn't heard that Santos was based on Obama.

[@amyrugala246]

What ever the out come,,, hero or martyr,,, love ya back Trae 💕

[@BrianRussTVC]

8:36 “the impossible is preferable to the improbable”

[@op3129]

most job interviews don't actually screen for the person who will do the job best. they screen for people who interview well. this is ESPECIALLY true for any job that needs an actual skill other than glad-handing or bs (sales/marketing) that said, I've read 80% of people who lose their job is bc they won't/can't get along with co-workers ... so at least a _LITTLE_ bit of interview skill matters, even for tech/coders/"hard" engineers/etc

[@epaulson666]

This show is really bad. They could have created any world they wanted. This show was supposed to be a alternate universe where instead of GHW we got a real liberal president….well turns out in liberal fantasy they still side with the right wing any chance they get….best podcast on this subject is the west wing thing, they are funny and really show how bad the writing is on the west wing.

[@BodaciousWench]

GHW?

[@thesoupin8or673]

@@BodaciousWench George Herbert Walker Bush

[@amylovy926]

Wow, this was really well done. I especially loved the timing of the presidential faces shown who have the empathy and scruples vs. those who just read lines. Superb!!!!! Also, I'm not sure if it's misplaced but I really feel defensive about Dr. Dean's funny emotional outburst. How the fuck does that eliminate him from the running given today's political climate? How would you spin it, if you knew then what you know today?

[@baylinkdashyt]

It eliminates him even less if you know what was actually going in that minute; it's been covered in a couple pieces that detail how his polling looked as he climbed up to the point where he dissed the press on the record, and then drifted back down out of contention. As you can infer from my comment about on this, I think you're right to be defensive, though that's probably at least partly because that was the only campaign I've ever actually worked on.

[@MaliYojez]

Before Trump, a phrase like "We need to call the president" used to mean something in movies. It had weight behind it. During (and even after) Trump, the phrase lost all it's power, instead sounding weak and ridiculous.

[@carriebohnsack190]

TWW and Crooked were the only things that mentally got me through 45's term.

[@thesoupin8or673]

If you liked the show and you're into podcasts, you should listen to The West Wing Thing with Josh and Dave! They analyze every episode from a writing and policy perspective and it's super interesting.

[@thesoupin8or673]

@Jerms_McErms shhhhh lol

[@bombshellmusical9566]

I 100% agree with you about showmanship vs substance. But I don't think it's a problem of the West Wing's creation. As you point out, this was true of Kennedy, Regan and Clinton, all of whom were first elected before the WW aired. Plus it's highly likely that 90% of WW fans voted for Hillary. (I don't mean that none are Republicans, but those who are, are more likely John McCain / Mitt Romney Republicans) However this is not a complaint, we do require charismatic TV characters of our Presidents, and this is a good way to illustrate that. I hops you are Parks and Recs fans because the Debate episode where you see an experienced competent woman struggling to beat a rich charismatic man who know's nothing was eerily similar to 2016! AND it shows how important it is to have TV programs with positive depictions of female Presidents.

[@outlinedcord7254]

I’ve been waiting for this video for so long.

[@MichaelFoley64]

Alan Alda in the movie Canadian Bacon!

[@p_nk7279]

God, I love Barack Obama. I also love’The American President.’ Recently watching ‘West Wing’ - I enjoy it but there are criticisms: Very sexist (how many ‘cad’ comments & scenarios can there be) Misogynist - see above I am flummoxed as to how they got away with (i.e. no one balked at) these harmful tropes at that time. Quite male-centric No gay characters to my recollection I pretty much doubt there were or are so many fast-talking, snarky, smart, witty, manic people all in the White House (then or ever) continually noting their SAT scores or degrees, etc. My other qualm - you may think oddly - is that I don’t see this country electing such a ‘short’ administration - the pres, the First Lady, the chief of staff are all very short. Everyone else towers above them. Martin Sheen is a great actor, and presumably exceeded initial expectations as they expanded his role - I do wonder if they had offered it first to Michael Douglas from the film. Anyway, I sincerely hope we see the likes of JFK, Clinton, Obama again.

[@suzibarlow3611]

You give me faith in the next gen. And, the one after you. Yours.

[@HaonProductions]

When's the Veep review? Hill staffers supposedly always say it's the most accurate political show.

[@littleblacksubmarie]

this video is the reason for the dislike button. how you wrong from all directions? after all these years too.

[@baylinkdashyt]

Damnit, Jon, you know better than to dump on Dean for that.

[@helpyourcattodrive]

I watched idiocracy three times in 2020.

[@oddstuff123]

Imagine cringing at the west wing and then making pod save america

[@jobarmure6169]

It only changed your life, I imagine you decided to become a White House staffer because you liked the TV show. And you thought it changed my life, means it changed the lives of all Americans. You're so humble...

[@Starlysh]

This show, along with Crooked pods, got me through 45. This was great! I hope Jon continues to name his children/furbabies after TWW characters.

[@thesoupin8or673]

If you liked the show and you're into podcasts, you should listen to The West Wing Thing with Josh and Dave! They analyze every episode from a writing and policy perspective and it's super interesting.

[@HermesSonofZeus]

Had to laugh at 10:47: "Henner has hyperthymesia or total recall memory; she can remember specific details of virtually every day of her life since she was a child" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilu_Henner#Personal_life).

[@azusa9963]

I have never watched one episode of the west wing, never wanted to til now. When are you going to run for office Jon?

[@podsaveamerica]

Definitely give the show a watch - you're in for a treat!

[@chrissiek8706]

First 4 seasons are the classic, later Sorkin left, so it wasn't the same, but go on for at least the pilot episode

[@colbypupgaming1962]

Mentions Bartlet's Catholicism while showing a clip from right before he tongue-lashes God himself.

[@omarlocke3610]

last few minutes sounded like a critique of and a plea to defend vp kamliah...

[@_nowhere]

I need to absorb this. Is there a written copy?

[@podsaveamerica]

No written version at this time (other than the captions of course) but we're glad to hear you found it interesting!

[@babennberry]

I enjoyed watching the West Wing at the time, but I have since the Democrats for what they really are. Now when I see characters on the show referring to Republicans as hating black people, I cringe. They blame Republicans for Slavery, Confederacy, K.K.K, Segregation, when we all know it was the Democrats did this. There's even a scene in the first series, where Laurie berates Sam and Josh, saying "You're supposed to be the good guys." This is wrong - merciless and hateful, Democrats were never the good guys.

[@pauldockree9915]

My Crook Log, Australia. But most of it is true. Bill Pullman while I was sleeping. Independence Day - Our Independence Day. Good movie. Unlikely the world coming together. (Beatle Joke Imagine Two Beatle jokes? Beatles Don't that beat all?) Back to Pullman and Carriages. Mundesley and Hopton On Sea. Bottle Shock and Scary Movies. Now Martin Sheen and Rage. Enigma Sacrifice and The J T Edson books bought to TV series. Still have not seen Trigger Fast or Guns Of Glory. Martin Sheen (AJ in The American President) became Jed Bartlet. But was old devil Hardin? I am won over.

[@annemitchell5302]

You forgot Mars Attacks!

[@floridamanrides863]

Forgot Manchurian Candidate too but I think maybe they decided to leave that one out. A little too close to reality. “ they tole me….”, “ they gave me a list”, who is they president Biden.