How the World’s Largest Shipyard Is Challenging China’s Dominance | WSJ

[@wsj]

At the world’s largest shipyard, U.S. courts an ally to face up to China: on.wsj.com/4eeERfk

[@KamBar2020]

Slava 🇹🇼 Heroyam TAIWANese 🦾

[@jamespoynor5948]

P 0:42 6:35 6:35

[@SengpoSatbang]

too late.. will definitely fail. China will rule the waves this century.

[@davefroman4700]

A shipyard that China could easily disable....

[@pg8010]

@@davefroman4700 South Korea can also easily disable theirs. S Korea has one of the largest long range missile assets in the world.

[@frankgrabasse4642]

Besides losing many of our shipyards, we have lost virtually our entire machine tool industry.

[@TheRadioAteMyTV]

Did we lose them or throw them away?

[@mayhemcry]

@@TheRadioAteMyTVyou threw them away to your corporate overlords and those corporate overlords then sent it to China/Asia. US has lost its skills and craftsmanship. Millennials and GenZ won’t do this heavy dirty works 😅

[@TheRadioAteMyTV]

@@mayhemcry We didn't throw them to the corporations, they were taken away from the corporations and are essentially now gone.

[@Davethreshold]

YES! Thank you. Danley Machine comes to mind when it was in Cicero, IL. near Chicago.

[@Mr1159pm]

​@@TheRadioAteMyTV we sold them for shiny marbles

[@robf8349]

This sounds good on paper but the asian efficiencies aren't a secret. They have the trained workforces and we don't. It's true across the construction space. High speed rail, chip faabs, etc. We offshored all the manufacturing and are now multiple generations removed from having enough institutional knowledge in our workforce. It will similarly take many years (and a lot of money) to build this capacity back up.

[@corvusglaive5769]

It is not just about the workforce. I believe the US has enough skilled labor to match the Chinese and Koreans, but the main issue is the industrial ecosystem. There are a lot components that go into shipbuilding, and it wouldn't do you much good if your skilled labor still has to import chips and other important components all the way from Taiwan, and other Asian countries.

[@ain92ru]

This workforce is also really cheap because all the salaries as well as the cost of living in the country are much lower than even the cheapest US states not to speak of the East and West Coasts where the shipyards are located. Moreover, Koreans, like Japanese and Taiwanese, live in an overtime culture (until 2018 they worked 52-h weeks instead of 40-h). There is no way the US can copy that, hence no way American shipbuilders are competitive in commercial shipbuilding, therefore not much improvement is possible in military shipbuilding as well (those are coupled)

[@ecognitio9605]

It's not fixable might as well just burn the money, modern "Stock - Buy back" America is incapable of conducting long term industrial projects any attempt inevitably devolves into an MBA infused gift of contractors , outsourcing, downsizing etc.... see Boeing and Intel. The trend started in the 80's.

[@buckwagers]

Experienced workers are rapidly approaching retirement. Apprenticeships would be a better choice than yet more BA or IT graduates.

[@buckwagers]

@@corvusglaive5769 The US does make chips --- low end chips, admittedly. However, many functions do not require high end chips.

[@William_1791]

They’re building Arleigh Burkes at a third of the cost, and in a fraction of the time it takes the U.S. to build one. U.S. shipyards have become a laughingstock

[@jogana6909]

US department of defense is good at spending the most money to do the least.

[@Art-is-craft]

Building junk does not mean anything.

[@hermanwillem7057]

​@@Art-is-craftkeep believing that it'll help you to sleep

[@Felix0587]

​@@Art-is-craft Junk? You mean like the Freedom, Independence, and Zumwalt classes? Chinas navy is improving with every ship they build. Its a real issue.

[@Art-is-craft]

@@Felix0587 Painting a vessel green or grey does not make it capable of naval warfare. Throwing out numbers does mean anything. Germany had 1200 U-boats in WW2 and still did not dominate the Atlantic.

[@nakfx134]

just shows you how our divisive politics are distracting us from these real issues

[@SpaceAgePac]

I don't they get that domestic issues matter more

[@recon_ron7746]

​@SpaceAgePac Yeah because having our country invaded in the future sure isn't as important, that'll be a bigger domestic issue

[@gackerman99]

define "real issues"

[@paani3327]

@@recon_ron7746 living in fear that "our country will be invaded" is such a little girl excuse to fund the military billions whilst people are starving.

[@Kunju69420]

As opposed to real issues like police violence, highest incarceration rates, rising homelessness, a drug epidemic, falling life expectancy, falling real wages etc?

[@gagelange7024]

The study that found ship yard a charging $10000 a bolt is probably part of the extreme cost

[@seekrengr751]

When only 500 such bolts are needed a year, the production of them is custom, from a custom shop having to do a unique setup that might take longer than the entire run. When you have the scale of Beijing's or S Korea's shipyards, the suppliers make a million of them per year and there's whole factories dedicated to only those bolts; they'll only cost $12/ea. Offshoring production of merchant vessels doomed military shipbuilding to excessive costs - exactly why Hyundai can make military ships at 1/3 cost of US shipyards.

[@phiksit]

It's crazy how much material gets thrown away / scrapped that's still usable. A yard I was just in scraps any extension cords or string light when they are damaged, instead of trying to repair them.... found parts scrapped because a bolt was missing... huge piles of unused bolts being thrown out.

[@seekrengr751]

@@phiksit Quite. My cousin was a cook on a Navy ship back in the 1970s. He told me when the ship was scheduled for new cutlery, regardless whether it was needed or not, all the old perfectly good stainless steel forks, knives, & spoons were all tossed overboard - tens of thousands of items at a time. The US gubmint has been among the most wasteful organizations on earth for probably a century.

[@xv9021]

@@seekrengr751 ITs no secret they do the same thing with dollars. They gotta use that money at the end of the year or lose it, then bring in contractors to run the system. We're toast.

[@Kparris7]

Remember when Romney was running for president and was literally laughed at for bringing this up?

[@mudshovel289]

Yes. I do.

[@Riomojo]

Remember that he put his dog on his car roof while driving on the highway

[@cashx370]

It’s actually infuriating how much politicians laughed off anyone not acting like peer and near peer conflicts would never be a thing again after the Cold War.

[@Symmonso96]

The point does still still the same however, pure numbers of ships isn't relevant, tonnage is most often used as the preferred measurement for a reason, china still cant compare to the dozen super carriers the US has

[@brianbrochman5974]

Remember when republicans primaried in Romney and then 4 years later the same people started pretending to be conservative?

[@xfreakerx1]

I worked for a company that had government contracts for various electronic parts. They were the only US based company that made these parts so could charge outrageous prices for subpar products. Military/Medical electronic component specs was

[@jogana6909]

Trade protection will only make the protected more lazy and obese. This is especially true for domestic military products, which has become a huge corruption chain.

[@saramae9878]

That's a big issue in the US. Cutting corners, low quality results.

[@sfbmod]

In the Army we had an old saying, "good enough for government work."

[@ErniceGilbert]

Here’s a novel idea: change the law 🙄

[@OGUNite]

That would undermine US workers and would give South Korea to much politcal leverage over the US. The military politcal leverage game goes both ways. I build your navies I own you.

[@thejeffinvade]

@@OGUNite I am surprised that the US shipyards haven't charged the DOD $1.6B for a new Burke class ship, then outsource the contracts to South Korea for $600M and pocket $1B difference........

[@abnormaltrusk12]

​@@thejeffinvadenot sure they can do that

[@douglaskaminski4703]

Don't forget that DoD spending is also partley pork barrel spending.

[@ktwei]

Zut alors!! humans can do that?

[@kev2582]

Admiral Del Toro knows what he is doing. This partnership is great and necessary.

[@yyy3856]

Shipbuilding in other countries, including Japan, is on the verge of dying. In fact, it is the same in most manufacturing industries. Now only Korea, China and Taiwan dominate the manufacturing sector. And it is not just because of low labor costs. Now, Korea has the highest wages and prices in Asia

[@buckwagers]

The USA seems to be waking from its complacent slumber.

[@Hfjsjsgjddbidhdjeu]

Turns out a country needs more than FAANG companies to thrive 😂

[@sleepyjoe4529]

Not really. It's more like America is turning over to hit the snooze and going back to bed

[@Hfjsjsgjddbidhdjeu]

4PM time for bed Sleepy Joe​@@sleepyjoe4529

[@Kennon959]

@@sleepyjoe4529 Especially if supply has to come from allies and not domestically

[@buckwagers]

@@sleepyjoe4529 The navy is waking. Most Americans have zero say about defense procurement. Your channel name has become irrelevant. Fitting, perhaps.

[@Adventuregirl96]

I was able to briefly see the Hyundai Shipyards in 2017, would be nice to go back and see how they are doing now. Great place with great workers.

[@KamBar2020]

Make SOJU 🍶 Great Again

[@brucedale4465]

Let’s just hope their Hyundai ship engines are better than the cars which are junk!

[@user60521123]

The US should and could be building those ships domestically. RoK didn’t build them at all before the 1970s and only started because of an aggressive industrialization drive. The US can re-industrialize if we can get our policy-making away from big pockets.

[@jaja3359]

You dont have the manpower for it

[@John_Smith_86]

No, you cannot. That is like South Korea saying that they can take over as the tech capital of the world away from the United States. Complete nonsense.

[@ljosephdumas3113]

🎯

[@dxelson]

​@@jaja3359Robots

[@jaja3359]

@@dxelson Maybe in the future yeah but that wont solve the current problems

[@Curtis7391-t8q]

I’m so mad why can’t this country build anything anymore?

[@thothfund]

The U.S. should seek efficiency and speed by sharing naval ship MRO work with allies like South Korea.

[@jenifferschmitz8618]

or bring those companies to the us

[@donnelljohanson5912]

@@jenifferschmitz8618 I'm pretty sure that the cost of ship will be extraodinary expensive due to the high wage of the US. Trump declared the no-tax policy but the wage is main problem to cut off the total cost. Can American give up the wage to build up ship?

[@NcowAloverZI]

Sorry one more thing, we clearly should be heavily investing into unmanned submarine and drone technology. The mass of the water is an extra layer of armor, and in the saturated air space of a future war, having an ocean above you is highly valuable. Not having the humans on board means the ship can conserve space, energy, be a smaller target, but still get orders from command.

[@sarkaranish]

We already are, google Anduril. They are a defense company that is working hard at high volume, low cost weapons with god-like software. America isn't losing its place as the monopoly on violence anytime soon.

[@imfromisrael489]

we released an unmanned underwater drone recently its considered quite stealthy

[@Thor_Odinson]

Yup....the Manta Ray....hopefully it tests out better than those 3 "advanced" destroyers that the USN will never use

[@jtrooper5771]

@@Thor_Odinsongood hopefully we don't have to 👍🏼

[@robf8349]

I remember in a recent wargame of china invading taiwan we lose like hundreds of aircraft on the ground and 1-2 carriers from chinese missile strikes. Our submarines did far better being able to sink much of the invasion fleet in the taiwan straight. Also Japan and S. Korea both field modern attack submarines. I have questions about unmanned systems like the Manta Ray in terms of capabilities and how it would realistically perform in a hot war but it is definitely an interesting concept.

[@jacobbaumgardner3406]

An important note to make. The number of battle force ships it’s important, quite important in fact, but it does not tell the whole story. The tonnage of the US Navy is double that of China, and the number of Chinese warships that match American ones is currently only a few dozen. This doesn’t mean China can or isn’t catching up, though. Its tonnage added per year equate to an entire French Navy, so this is still an important issue to tackle.

[@nulnoh219]

That was the IJN's strategy in WW2. a few big heavy capital ships. But no capacity to replace them. The 6 carriers and Yamato once sunk, was not replaced.

[@jakemurray2635]

The tonnage lead is help up by very few 100,000 tonne aircraft carriers that are looking increasingly obsolete. China already posesses hypersonic missiles that are capable of sinking a Nimitz Class carrier.

[@bxndaries]

the difference is not as significant as you think. chinese naval policy is focused on regional dominance and littoral warfare, not playing global policeman. US has significantly more tonnage, yes, but it is distributed across the globe in many places simultaneously. china has plans to enlarge to 6 aircraft carriers, and currently has 3+3 LHDs. China does not need too many vessels when they have extremely potent ASM capabilities. the issue is that US naval dominance in the pacific is being challenged... US only has 1 active CSG in the region currently, and 2 other ARGs... this force cannot match that of the chinese navy

[@jacobbaumgardner3406]

@@bxndaries it's not really littoral anymore. Save for attack boats and corvettes (most of the latter have been transfered to the coast guard), the PLAN is a USN analogue through and through. Carriers, destroyers, AORs, etc.

[@ulysseswho9870]

in terms of VLS china have more, it means china have more firepower that us warship

[@mickeydodds1]

And who cheered on that de-industrialization ? Why, it was the WSJ!!! 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

[@CssNychh]

aistockadvisor AI fixes this. World's largest shipyard challenges China

[@biochemwang2421]

This is no secrect: Outsourcing military ship building like outsourcing everything else ...

[@Andre_XX]

Just need to outsource the government to complete the process. The economists ought to be very happy then.

[@nukiolbartes6279]

@@Andre_XX already happening. havent heard about government outsourcing work to consultants?

[@jxmai7687]

One rule, US ship builders have to keep the profit high for those rich parties.

[@EDD519]

yeah the UNIONS !

[@PrivateDoge]

@@EDD519 Right, the underpaid workers, thats where all the money is going. Do people like you ever think before you speak?

[@0906Cmauricio]

You forgot NASSCO in San Diego. It’s the largest shipyard on the west coast

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

Why is usa navy in Asia ?

[@sweetbriarhuslin7371]

because all these countries need help, always, forever and ever.

[@dr.magnanimous8973]

@@sweetbriarhuslin7371 They would not need any "help" if we do not instigate any war around the world.

[@Default012]

and Ingalls in Moss Point Mississippi and Austal in Mobile Alabama... thats just off the top of my head so I know they are missing more. And Austal is expanding in Mobile AL to build more submarines.

[@vincemarshall9520]

Nassco in SD is a ship repair yard. Big difference.

[@dariovittori1935]

What about a lend-lease approach, the same as the US had with the UK during ww2.

[@aylyi-huh9355]

korea was the top shipbuilding nation for a while. most of the world's largest cruise ships were built by STX (Korea) before it was sold off. many companies went bankrupt due to recessions, mismanagement, and the rise of china. but it would be a great strategy for US and Korea to partner together

[@Mr.Santoyo]

You forgot to mention one of the largest shipyard bulider on the West coast. NASSCO G.D in San Diego CA. They are still building ships for the U.S Navy. And just got awarded to build 10-17 TAO Navy supply ship with worth billions.

[@rd9102]

I guess the US should focus on teaching trades again and stop telling folks to get useless college degree's and watching the sheep spend/borrow $150k or more to get gender studies degree's. Probably should start supporting applicable trades and pay living wages to make it happen.

[@knoll9812]

USA has spent decades throwing skilled workers on the scrap heap. How do you convince them that this is a good career path compared to real estate say.

[@rd9102]

@@knoll9812 We are already there, it just needs to be advertised. Most people getting a college degree are not in real estate and most people also don't have the motivation to be in real estate. As far as trades go, the price of a plumber or a pipe fitter or an electrician not to mention mechanics...starting salary can approach 6 figures and if you go for an apprenticeship/journeyman and then build a business then the sky is the limit. But it's not advertised at all while folks hear about college ALL THE TIME EVERY DAY. Also put it back in grade/middle and high school. For instance i took woodworking and metal shop and print shop as did ALL my schoolmates in middle school. They don't bother with that anymore. It won't happen over time but it can happen if it's fostered. Another idea would be to adopt a European model like say Germany where folks are tested for aptitude for College or trades and then categorized appropriately, far to many folks that can't properly utilize a college degree and waste resources getting one because "they can" instead of it being a good use of time and resources.

[@seekrengr751]

@@rd9102 True - our local community college has a CNC machining program, where graduates can opt to stay in the local small city area and have a choice of two or three jobs or go down to the major city 100 miles away and have a choice of 4-5 jobs at 20% higher wages, starting at $70+K/yr. They struggle to fill classes, sadly, due to poor publicity and the higher status accorded university degrees. Meanwhile liberal arts university degree holders scramble to get cashier jobs at stores. The stigma that academics attached to trades jobs for the last 50 years in the US still poisons the well.

[@yurigaming4068]

​@@knoll9812with the new generation, forget about real estate. Tiktok, youtube, and onlyfans is their go to jobs now

[@rd9102]

@@seekrengr751 At this point, College degree's are a measure of almost nothing unless you come from a handful of high powered schools WITH an actually useful degree. It's pretty sad what college in large part has become. Don't get me wrong, Doctors and Lawyers and Architects...basically STEM fields and some other degree's are necessary. However unfortunately there is a TON of degree's out there that aren't worth the paper they are printed on. However, the market WILL expand for trades because while everyone needs pipefitters and plumbers and electricians etc. etc. etc.. How many folks are needed for an English language history position? How many gender studies degree's are needed? How many photography degree's (can't believe that's even a thing) are needed?

[@guywhoknowsaguy]

Do these ships also come with the 5 year, 100k mile warranty? I love that the same company that builds the Elantra builds destroyers.

[@gbjb6606]

Korea are already making selling their K9 and K2 to many countries, and they are one of the efficient and reliable products that are out there right now. so i wouldn't compare elantra to those

[@죽은_시민의_사회]

Well they are currently legally different companies, both are offsprings of the former Hyundai group (which imploded in the early 2000s). But there might have been a time period where the same company was indeed building both cars and warships.

[@spectrumboss6696]

General Dynamics NASSCO in San Diego is still operating so make that five

[@cspdx11]

Repair or new builds?

[@spectrumboss6696]

@@cspdx11 Both, General Dynamics has five shipyards if you count Groton. NASSCO has done commercial but I am not sure they are competitive

[@ProximaCentairi24]

South Korea and the US and Japan need to all help each other to the highest degree possible.

[@paullee-sl9it]

Good luck to that!

[@RichardKing-sx6xc]

​@@paullee-sl9itAgreed, during covid all the shipping container companies and countries had their self interests first.

[@AnhHuong_364]

Instantly calms my mind

[@jasons44]

These lessons revived must be learned quickly

[@secramis4558]

The U.S. has three major allies in Asia that are among the top 10 shipbuilding countries which are South Korea (2nd), Japan (3rd), and the Philippines (8th). Why hasn't the U.S. used this strong partnership to work together on building ships or strengthening its navy? These countries could help the U.S. improve its own navy.

[@jogana6909]

The United States should completely outsource the manufacturing of warships to its allies. Forcing production in the US will only increase costs and reduce efficiency.

[@jetli740]

incase of war those shipyard will be target ..just incase you forgot

[@knoll9812]

Us needs a joint strategy. Outsourcing ship building to allies while building up ship building capacity at home This will take ten years. Kids at school need to be ship yard veterans if the future. University needs shipbuilding engineering courses Takes money and commitment . In Europe Italy is good at building ships.

[@johndickson435]

Why ! there is NO NAVY in the world that could compete with the U.S. navy

[@normangiven6436]

The USN does not have the sailors to man these ships. Build rate is not important if Americans are not willing to staff them.

[@shubhankartripathi1143]

Great infornation

[@oceanrem6531]

I don't get the connection between the U.S. prohibiting its navy to purchase ships abroad via the 1965 Amendment (@ 0:59) which "allows China to set a course to global dominance." So, our navy only purchases warships built in the U.S.A and somehow this leads to China's dominance in the global ship building? Does WSJ must blame every U.S. problems on China?

[@boristhebarbarian]

3:58 is the UK's Portsmouth naval base, not a base in the USA..

[@bulatog380]

South Koreans are clever. They are not only advanced in engineering, but they also secure supplies abroad at cheaper price.

[@edwardkim8972]

They lead the word in average IQ at 107.

[@bulatog380]

@@edwardkim8972 it's not just about the iq. It's about how a nation perform in a free market.

[@edwardkim8972]

@@bulatog380 well, isn't a higher IQ nation better able to perform in a free market? Sounds like a chicken or egg question.

[@bulatog380]

@@edwardkim8972 Talk Russia, where chess is a national sports. Like an egg and chicken question duh?

[@jaturnley]

@@bulatog380 Wait, so having our most popular sport be something that literally damaged the brains of our youth is a bad idea? Who would have guessed that.

[@themeanhornet1070]

Have to correct you, Norfolk Naval Shipyard does NOT build ships. Repairs and refueling only.

[@Bluewater78]

Change the 1965 protection law so US can buy hulls (and non-critical components) built to their specification from trusted allies. Then bring the ships to American yards and fit it out with the latest and greatest radars, sensors, and weapons. This should save costs, build up domestic industry and help with employment while at the same time cut construction time and prevent unwanted top secret tech from being copied. In the long run the US may even be able to build ships without relying on foreign yards.

[@maplered5351]

Will this kind of behavior create jobs in the United States?

[@knoll9812]

​@maplered5351nit in short term. Brutal truth is struggytonbuild one destroyer due to skill worker shortage m

[@8vantor8]

@@maplered5351 in theory yes, although most of the work is done overseas, all the weapons, sensors, and perhaps even the engines, will be installed in the US; and, sense this would mean there are more hulls then the US is currently making that we would need additional workers to install said components.

[@satyanshtrivedi6703]

4:27 INS Satpura (Indian Frigate) portrayed as US naval ship

[@bangdoll4500]

Arleigh Burke-class fligt III: 9800 tons 2 billion dollars. Jungjo the great : 12,000 tons 930 million dollars. (Ship construction: 9 months 23 days) The construction of U.S. Navy warships is too inefficient and slow. The longer the construction time of the ship, the greater the cost. Shipbuilding know-how can't be learned overnight, and it takes decades to raise hardworking and skilled workers. In other words, if the U.S. Navy wants a large number of battleships right now, they can place an order with a Korean shipyard. In which year do you want to learn efficient and fast battleship construction know-how?

[@kyouskeuzumaki9673]

The current pay system is a scam the new smart Gens will realize they get paid peanuts

[@ws1814]

So instead of reviving US ship building industry the politicians thought it’s better to send all the tax money to Korea abd revive their economy???? 😂

[@droid4369]

Ah the nation of laws has made it illegal for its own navy to remain competitive against enemy navies. I believe there is some irony in there somewhere.

[@ciaranReal]

Same here 🇬🇧

[@bisaa12]

I have seen japanese Sumitomo install scaffolding on a main mast in under 2 hours. Yet seen it take almost a week on the same ship in the US.

[@romerojohnny4040]

Because we have so many safety personal acting like God in the jobsite and cannot move forward without sign off from the safety personals. I get involved with both building new Navy ships and upgrades and maintenance contract for 18 plus years. So many mismanagement, politics and navy's failures.

[@williamlloyd3769]

ROKS Jeongjo the Great (DDG-995) is the fourth ship the of the Sejong the Great class of guided missile destroyers built for the Republic of Korea Navy. She is the fourth Aegis-built destroyer, CIWS, and other US built components.

[@augusthallmann96]

you overlooked Sturgeon bay Wi. 1000’ drydock

[@TrinhNguyen-nc7hj]

Good luck finding enough Asians to fill the work force.

[@evrythingis1]

I don't know a SINGLE Asian outside of Japan that wouldn't rather work in America and earn US dollars. Not ONE.

[@Kiyoen569]

​@evrythingis1 you can add korea to that list

[@harryechiverri6216]

You forgot to mention that the US is more relying on attack submarines.

[@marvinfok65]

Can submarines send fighter planes to another location? Remember how the German lost the Atlantic war just focusing on submarine warfare?

[@aregranhaug8617]

@@marvinfok65 Let's not forget that Germany was an industrial dwarf compared to the US, which also had Canadian and British navy... It's comparing apples and oranges. But of course you're correct about the limitations of what submarines can do beyond sinking ships.

[@thomasvelazquez9789]

Yes and they are extremely effective along with drone subs

[@sfbmod]

Space-based weapons platforms. I've helped launch enough to at least say the rest of the world combined has little to no chance against us. Without violating NDAs too much, hopefully.

[@fen3311]

WSJ forgot a lot of pertinent facts. Like the fact China is in no way, shape or form even close to competing with the U.S. navy's capacity.

[@samuelnazario7412]

Repair in S.Korea. Close as possible to Chinese missiles. This administration is laughable.

[@박하사탕-b3o]

Hyundai, Samsung, and Hanwha are Korea's big three shipyards. And Hyundai Rotem makes k2 mbt and Hanwha Aerospace (formerly Samsung Techwin) makes k9 self-propelled guns

[@iann.152]

They have one shipyard now in the Philippines, Cerberus bought the Hanjin Shipyard and ready to build ship anytime...

[@frontseated5983]

We would never work in shipyards, too much effort and a total waste of time. We would rather be a million dollar footballer or a politician telling lies and pocketing the difference.

[@captiannemo1587]

The solution was mentioned early on in the video… building commercial ships and military ships at the same time. And ofc… volume. Laying down 5-8 of the same ship side by side. And subsides… the US gave them out for commercial shipping into the early 80s. And then stopped.

[@user-wr4yl7tx3w]

But US has so many allies which China doesn’t have. You excluded the ships of our allies?

[@muudcatt9541]

wanna include Russian ships on China's side?

[@user-wr4yl7tx3w]

@@muudcatt9541 you mean the ones left that Ukraine hasn't already destroyed?

[@bearpolo3618]

Why do you think other countries would risk fighting with a nuclear power for the interest of US, not to mention China's huge naval force and advanced missiles. Keep in mind, China is the largest trading partner of over 130 countries, including so called "US allies".

[@simply_kenetic4915]

@@muudcatt9541 The tug boats in question:

[@alfonsom8286]

​@user-wr4yl7tx3w, you do realize if China, Russia, and the US and its allies got involved in an actual war, Russia would quickly nuke Ukraine.

[@luting3]

It makes lot of sense to me.

[@markymark3572]

The Virginia class submarine programme is one of the biggest concerns, with only 2 new boats currently being completed & commissioned per year.

[@anotheran]

Military companies look to build military strength in other countries. US military companies look to line their pockets.

[@8vantor8]

every company looks to line their pockets, ours just bumped it up a little

[@kikiwonwon29]

You re right. US is sleeping & China wake up. I dont know why the US did some of sanctions on their allies. Japan is an example. Us always want make more money & want their allies buy their weapon. When it comes to Ukraine war, the US just want their allies in NATO sending more tank, plane, defense system as much as they could. And USA keep selling weapon to allies. Instead they could develop things independent without us restriction. US keep sending troops into their land & Allies have to pay alot for them. While China spreading around South China Sea with their cost-effective navy fleet, US still use some crazy expensive ships which have similar features. USA should ve let Japan found army against China itself. They did so many stupid things with Germany, France, Japan which lead to weaken America place in the world.

[@seoul_9584]

Korea has no reason to build a shipbuilding yard in the US. America has no workers, and the cost is very high. Let South Korea make American warship. America did nothing to rebuild its own shipbuilding industry. It will be minus points to Korea if they move shipbuilding yards to the US. Furthermore, the shipbuilding industry is strategically very important for Korea. Do not expect Korea to move their industry to the US. It's not yours. Will u agree if Korea force the US to move all their factories to Korea? To build Korea great again? Lol

[@죽은_시민의_사회]

Hanhwa shipbuilding has already boutght American shipyards. They are not planning to "move" shipbuilding to the US-it's an expansion of operations. It's a win-win for bout Korean companies(who can get contracts for US naval ships) and the US(who gets ships built with US labor).

[@mystery-z]

​@@죽은_시민의_사회 Hanhwa bought Philadelphia Shipyards, which has been operating at a loss for quite a long time. It's not a clear-cut win-win situation because while they can now earn US navy contracts, this means that Hanhwa is still likely building them at a loss.

[@죽은_시민의_사회]

Well, in that case, I hope Hanhwa has plans to turn a profit. I would imagine they have one, and even if they don't, for the short term Hanhwa's profits from other contracts should be more than enough to cover losses. It's been a fairly good year for the Korean shipbuilding industry so far.

[@고구미-w4r]

@@죽은_시민의_사회 Recently, Hyundai decided to give up after judging that the MRO business feasibility with the United States was not good.

[@atomf9143]

The US is literally not allowed to buy foreign-build warships under 10 U.S. Code § 8679. It is illegal to do what you suggest. While it wouldn't be a bad idea, and I'd agree with it in many cases, it is still against US laws to buy a South Korean-built warship.

[@JamesSavik]

You missed Ingalls on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. We build a lot for the Navy and would like to build more.

[@jamesthornton9399]

What is the security of the ship yard?

[@seriatim8527]

It's not just numbers, it is also the capabilities of the ships and the quality of the organization. Would anyone take the PLAN over the USN?

[@ajaykumarsingh702]

PLAN is more advanced in weaponry. USN calls itself advanced only because of nuclear powered vessels.

[@HexaSquirrel]

It's impossible to say without personal bias encroaching, Neither organization has fought an equal peer in well over 70 years.

[@user-9qGdfBTprb]

I can understand your unprofessionalism, but the fact is that the People's Liberation Army is far ahead

[@ajaykumarsingh702]

@@sayreharder1541 You are speculating about very generalized forms of definitions here. Blue water, Green water, etc are just terms and plays no role in a long term strategic warfare. The Yemeni Houties have wrecked havoc on the US navy and Royal navy and nobody could do anything about that. In the end the Houties hold the ground easily and they aren't even a formidable military but a proxy of Iran. Now Imagine what China will do to the US navy. They have the largest missile arsenal on the planet called as Rocket force. They have millions of missiles, perhaps more. USA has realised that their doctrine of Blue water navy is useless. PLAN surfs under the umbrella of Chinese rocket force. China projects its power very well around the region. While the US navy completely depends on the foreign bases to project its limited power. In this age of missiles and satellites, the US navy is nothing but a sitting duck.

[@yyy3856]

You can see in the video, numbers matter. And the performance of the latest, if not all, Chinese warships are comparable to that of American warships. Also, China is already building its fourth aircraft carrier and continuing to build nuclear submarines. And most importantly, the speed is too fast. We must not underestimate their speed. The U.S is not the time to indulge in hubris. The U.S should let go of its pride and seek help from its allies

[@sunnymittra]

This is really sad, how US getting behind of China. Shameful and concerning.

[@paullee-sl9it]

It is not shameful. China is a honorable competitor or partner, depending on how we treat it.

[@svenrio8521]

As long as they keep wanting welders with 3 years of experience minimum but keep paying entry level wages, they won't solve their personal problems.

[@josephc9953]

you haven't got a clue what you are talking about

[@knoll9812]

​@@josephc9953actually he has a point. Shipyard buildykatest destroyer was losing welders to McDonald's

[@amariner5]

It was "looking beyond our shores" for ships that help get the U.S. to this point. The USA has been subsidizing shipyards in South Korea for sometime. For example, the"Chesty Puller" class are kits made in ROK.

[@klephenthurry3284]

Usually I don't trust the WSJ but they have adopted a sort of "Vice News" format of reporting at least on KZbin. I am a sucker for these. Watch em on my work breaks a lot.

[@TeamWorldRoom]

Having repairs in Asia is the only good thing here. No successful model abroad can be replicated in the US.

[@AndrewTa530]

Regan nailed it

[@Dayvit78]

Who is Regan?

[@Law19157]

I'm pretty sure labor costs are lower in states like South Carolina and U.S. territories such as American Samoa that can be utilized to build Navy Ships.

[@jogana6909]

But it still cannot make the shipyard profitable

[@michaelbelonio3342]

SK HHI ship building is fast, in fact one of the newest Malvar class of Philippine Navy is now on sea trials and a second one is on the works.

[@patchouli9]

KIA boys taking notes

[@Escape_The_Mundane]

I think we could help usa but the shipbuilding has to be profitible, like the korean guys said if you run a shipbuilding company it can be hard to get a steady stream of new orders because boats are very expensive. I heard 80% of the worlds ocean is still unexplored.

[@8vantor8]

we know that is on the surface of the ocean, it is the bottom that is mostly unexplored

[@Escape_The_Mundane]

@@8vantor8 Makes sense just like helping nasa you have to fund the technology yourself. In my opinion humans can travel to other solar systems. There is super energy unexplored like zed point energy, interspatial energy, antimatter, dark energy.

[@8vantor8]

@@Escape_The_Mundane 0 point energy is not possible, as the very idea of it is equal to pulling water out of a empty glass. antimatter is inherently dangerous making it incredibly risky. Nuclear Fusion is the most likely to be doable, and the safest option for it.

[@Escape_The_Mundane]

@@8vantor8 I have done research on those too. In china they are advanced fission like thorium reactor, and natrium salt reactor. I think to be successful humans need to try to utilize the most energy they can, with an emphasis on clean renewable technologies.

[@robosv634]

We need to pass the "Mitt Romney was right and we're really sorry for mocking him" Defense Appropriations Bill ASAP

[@masterchinese28]

You are spot on.

[@phillipheaton9832]

China has 739 vessels in its navy, while the US has only 472. However, the US has 3,415,893 tons of ships, while China only has 708,886 tons. That makes the American navy almost five times larger. Furthermore, the vast majority of China's navy consists of short ranged coastal ships, whereas America's navy is worldwide in its reach. Comparing the two navies is like comparing apple to oranges, although apples to grapes might be a better comparison.

[@eomoro1199]

that's data from 2014 lol...a decade of rampant Chinese shipbuilding ago. Today, China is over 2,000,000 while the U.S is 4,500,000. In 10 years they went from 5x large to a little over 2x. The U.S navy isn't used to facing an adversary that is even this close at all, let alone one with who threatens to catch up. U.S Navy can't even handle Houthi rebels atm. Another issue is exactly what you mentioned: China is dominating the Taiwan Straight, South China Sea and relevant seas near them with ships while U.S commitments are spread globally. That's not a great look in preparation for potential scenarios. Also worth noting ships are going out of commission because recruiting and staff are low.

[@IamHandsome4u]

Bro forgot to update his info.😂

[@Law19157]

The range doesn't matter at the moment since the immediate conflict is the South China sea

[@alexejvornoskov6580]

@@eomoro1199 And US fleets are scattered all around the world while chinese one would be concentrated around one area plus they would have arial support directly from mainland. So this tips the scale further into their direction. How good they actually are at fighting is a whole other story, as they have no experience with it, but when it comes to numbers, they may actually end up getting upper hand.

[@Maverick-ur2vp]

"China only has 708,886 tons" Is this data from year 2000?

[@TheRadioAteMyTV]

They should have waited until October to release this. Truly far scary than anything that has appeared on the big screen in a long time. When you are out numbered by triple in ships and far more than that in men, you don't get to win very often.

[@Hfjsjsgjddbidhdjeu]

Why wait until October

[@TheRadioAteMyTV]

@@Hfjsjsgjddbidhdjeu Halloween. It's when Hollywood releases their scary movies.

[@noacktexas]

Good coverage!!

[@keatkhamjornmeekanon7616]

Outsoucing to South Korea and Japan is also risky.

[@emikomina]

there is a risk of outsourcing in korea since it is well documented that tech secrets in korea are often leaked to china, but there is little risk in Japan since unlike korea, Japan is very well known for being very wary of China and as such have lots of anti-espionage laws.

[@manj5228]

@@emikomina japan is a part of china secretly.

[@jimmysweat2200]

They said deindustrialization Who initiated it

[@ankundamwebembezi6358]

Globalists

[@Andre_XX]

Economists.

[@phiksit]

Reagan deindustrialized america. Cold war ended. Union membership declined. Globalization and offshoring began. Immigrant influx began. Defense budgets did go up but so did unpaid for tax cuts (deficit spending) and went even higher under Shrub Sr.. Military base realignment and closure policy began under Reagan in 88' but was carried out by his successors in the 90's... so it began as a republican policy under Reagan just like raising the retirement age did. Clinton followed neoliberal (republican) policies to balance the budget by cutting programs and doing a bunch of base closures.

[@ankundamwebembezi6358]

@phiksit then y do we hear Democrats talk more about promoting supply chains, globalisation and failing to impose tariffs on american companies leaving the country

[@jerseywalcott6408]

You know who?

[@aqualou2]

Beijing did not arbitrarily “claim” Taiwan as China’s territory (as indicated in the video). That Taiwan is part of “one China” is stated in Taiwan’s constitution, and in various US-China treaties.

[@Library890]

For a low cost Maintenance and repair of the US Navy Ship, USA or the US Navy should have a NASSCO type Repair and Maintenance shipyard in Subic Bay Philippines

[@kyouskeuzumaki9673]

Will that company pay the workers 100$ an hour ?

[@Diderot68]

Catch up is the right word.

[@AtleyCarman-xe7rs]

The claim that China's navy is larger is quite misleading and is repeated said as a fear tactic. By tonnage, the US has a far larger navy, many of the Chinese ships are Coast Guard boats/patrol boats

[@georgesikimeti2184]

Exactly and add quality too!

[@kyouskeuzumaki9673]

@@georgesikimeti2184compared to number of ships tonnage is just virtual

[@dewensun4332]

The main bottle neck is with equipments rather than hulls. The Korean shipyard import much of the key equipments which is still controlled by US. So the bottleneck and over budget is still at US suppliers

[@jogana6909]

Please provide an example. Is the United States still producing shipbuilding equipment?

[@dewensun4332]

@@jogana6909 Mostly radars, missiles, vls, central command systems, gas turbines, drive trains, etc. These are the core of a warship and what makes them effective, and they are almost all controlled by US suppliers. When warships are maintained, refurbished or repaired, these are almost always the most important and crucial parts. For a logistical system with the Korean ship builders in the loop, there is a lot of physical and legal barriers in supplying these systems to Korea and train their personnel to the point that they can maintain and repair them.

[@evrythingis1]

@@dewensun4332 You are giving information to a literal Chinese state agent.

[@8vantor8]

@@evrythingis1my brother in Christ, you can just google this stuff, it is not in any way shape or form classified

[@yyy3856]

Is it such a shame for you to learn how to build a ship in Korea?

[@Kevin.Costner.]

Holy Ship💀

[@edgararturo4560]

I love the cooperation

[@Library890]

The USA like the US Navy and US Marine Corps should hire Filipinos to the US Military as Gen Mc Arthur did in the 40's, Many Filipinos joined US Army and US navy and US Marines

[@badtechnology-po6io]

Why are you saying that the Us has to catch up... Look at the aircraft carriers. It doesnt matter who has more frigattes...

[@jkians21]

Look up the shipyard capacities, China has one that has greater output than all USA's domestic shipyards. it's a time game

[@jakemurray2635]

Without escorts, the carriers would be lost in short order to submarines or enemy surface ships and hypersonic missiles designed specifically to destroy carriers.

[@chrisnoctskie5869]

Rabbit and the Tortoise. I wouldn't be too complacent If I'm the US. Don't do what the Russians did, which underestimate the US. Now you guys are underestimating China. China is overtaking some industries rapidly. (Phones, Connectivity, Railways, Cars, Ship building). When will US wake up to reality?

[@badtechnology-po6io]

@@jkians21 and a intel game, which america is leading

[@badtechnology-po6io]

@@jakemurray2635 you dont need 30 escorts to sufficiently protect a carrier. I know what you mean, but if you compare the doctrine, the chinese navy is meant for green water power projection and not blue water, as they know that they will never match the US blue water capabilities.

[@ulooqulg]

Nahh, the Korean will tear thier hair out.. Cos, the design will kept changing WHILE UNDER CONSTRUCTION 😂😂.

[@jogana6909]

Nevertheless, I still believe that their efficiency is higher than that of the US

[@atomf9143]

@@jogana6909 It absolutely is, however, 10 U.S. Code § 8679 forbids us buying anything they build.

[@phiksit]

omg... we are ALWAYS doing design changes here in the US too... It's like trying to hit a moving target. Install... ripout... reinstall... rinse and repeat. At least from my experience. The design / engineering on ships keeps getting worse.

[@kyouskeuzumaki9673]

@@phiksitthat’s actually insane everyone can literally blame corporate monopolies for obstructing the soul of everything the new generation will demand 5x the actual minimum wage pay or starting pay because they know their worth they are smart at least while international countries in mathematics science and engineering their youths are being the backbone of their Nations unlike the us

[@pramirez7266]

Only time US is very fast when giving money to Ukraine Super fast when giving money to Israel But very slow to allocate money for building US infrastructure and building southern border. Nice job America.

[@jogana6909]

It is easier for politicians to get kickbacks by paying abroad.

[@죽은_시민의_사회]

Actually, a lot of the budget in the supposed foreign aid is actually just a cover for investment in US arms industry. For more info, look up Perun's video on Ukraine Aid.

[@죽은_시민의_사회]

If you actually took a look at the aid bill, you would know a significant part of the money is being used to restart the defense industry.

[@knoll9812]

USA is spending huge amounts on ship building and getting little in return

[@jenifferschmitz8618]

all the r and d is being done in ukraine at a fraction of the cost do we let europe have all the drone tech being developed

[@pevnik]

Creative force is not based in greed and fear but in creative love!

[@bbokdoong]

Here is the idea. Hanhwa recently acquired Philly shipyard. Hanhwa can make ships in portions in South Korea and ship those portions to Philly shipyard. And Philly shipyard can do the final assembly. That way, Hanhwa can make profit, Philly shipyard keeps American jobs, and the U.S. navy can get their battleships faster and cheaper. 👍👍👍

[@moonbird0041]

The loss of sustainable and low-cost advanced manufacturing in U.S. is equivalent to the destruction of the country. B/c the deindustrialization process in the U.S. has not ended, the systemic corruption in the U.S. defense procurement system has caused U.S. to lose its position as a global hegemon in the middle of the 21st century.

[@jogana6909]

Forcefully manufacturing in the United States will only bring greater losses. Outsourcing to Japan and South Korea has at least introduced competition, putting pressure on the obese and lazy military industrial complex.

[@moonbird0041]

@@jogana6909lost advance manufactuejobs equal lost future

[@robertwang7825]

The thing is this , China’s shipbuilding is the biggest in the world for both commercial and military , furthermore they are the number 1 steel producer. With such massive operations they have economies of scale that is unmatched. In time this gap is just going to get bigger and their technology is closing fast on the US. I don’t see how the US can compete.

[@cspdx11]

Agreed

[@krashd]

They can't, China is the world's factory today, just as the USA was the world's factory in 1945. Industrial output wins wars.

[@kyouskeuzumaki9673]

And the us refuses to not pay welders their actual worth which is 4-5x than any starting amount

[@nikkivieler3761]

You see other countries are quite better at ships than the U.S....

[@yuritarted984]

Not really the us navy tonnage is almost double china straps a weapon on a speed boat and calls it a warship

[@jeffbaugher]

Absolutely not. We have 20 carriers and the only blue water navy on the planet. China has 1 carrier and they haven't gotten it working in 2 years of service. We currently have 3.6 millions tons of ships in our fleet. China has 2 million. Higher in number but no ware near the power.

[@voidtempering8700]

​@@yuritarted984Um, since when did 8,000-13,000 ton warships become speed boats. Also, you realize a Type 056 Corvette has as much firepower as an LCS, right. Arguably better since it actually carries ASMs.

[@yuritarted984]

@@voidtempering8700 it was an exaggeration but the point remains

[@yyy3856]

No, it's just Korea and China. Shipbuilding in other countries, including Japan, is on the verge of dying. In fact, it is the same in most manufacturing industries. Now only Korea, China and Taiwan dominate the manufacturing sector. Other countries? You still can't figure it out? How low is the level of education in your country?

[@TheMilpitasguy]

What about deep-sea water port Subic Bay naval base? That's even closer to Taiwan. USN can forge repair contracts with the Philippines. Subic Bay is an old US naval base. Repair and ready more quickly.

[@dog_pepe]

Subic Shipyard is already a failed place

[@RichmondBaker]

The dots on the Map of where the US ship building locations are is incorrect, they did not have a dot over the Norfolk Virginia area which has a really large ship yard.

[@darkacefsu]

I love the cherry picked facts. Yes China has more naval ships by numbers. If you go by weight tonnage. USA has far more superior ships.

[@mrfarenheit9159]

China will have the full support of the Chinese Air force, including single seat tactical aircraft....

[@zen-mc4ju]

Still dreaming

[@scottb9387]

Thanks NAFTA and Democratic party

[@tianyi05]

I don't see Mexico building a large navy. No it was the GOP push to get China into the WTO, and the resulting expansion of its industrial capacity.

[@jbqu3142]

NAFTA has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with this. US salaries is the problem. US builds the best warships in the world but it takes too long to build and are too costly.

[@jascrandom9855]

They have a skilled work force, but also because the building company (Hyundai) also owns most of its supply chain.

[@carnakthemagnificent336]

If the sticking point is US law, that can be fixed. Amend the law to create the US based shipyards we need, while cutting an exemption to build US ships in South Korea at yards exclusive to US ships with US Naval staff on site. South Korea has a strong interest in a strong US Navy.

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

What's usa doing in Asia ?

[@carnakthemagnificent336]

@@jacksmith-mu3ee Helping make certain that good countries do not become serfs of the chicoms. What would you prefer?

[@ericverster4069]

I see the propaganda machine is at full production

[@neothechosenone1502]

It's not propaganda, it's the truth. Our ship building industry has been bottled necked because we relied too much on Norfolk. We used to have a lot of companies producing vehicles and components for military hardware, but now those have become huge conglomerates that shut down many factories. We are already seeing this effect with the shortage of 150mm shells in Ukraine and Israel. Our industry has a real bottleneck problem that needs to be addressed. Meanwhile other countries heavily invested in their industries and are now able to produce things like destroyers at a fraction of the cost, and more efficiently than we can. You can check multiple sources to verify this is indeed happening. This isn't just "big government wants more money". This is more "it will take decades to train our workforce to build these things again".

[@ericverster4069]

@@neothechosenone1502 I'm aware our military production capacity is seriously jeopardized, a lot of that is because we send billions of dollars to anything that moves overseas. We are at a serious disadvantage right now in terms of global legitimacy and force projection. I call this propaganda because the WSJ and NYT focusing so heavily on military equipment is another attempt by the establishment to glorify the cool tech you get to used to kill people. If we were facing legitimate threats I'd be all about it. But we're pissing away all of our resources for fake proxy wars and genocides, and we will be caught completely off guard when Kim makes a move on SK or China on Taiwan, which are actually some of our greatest allies unlike the welfarers in the Middle East and Europe.