How To Auto Roast Coffee At Home

[@LivingTheLifeRetired]

Great video Mike. Now that I have my M1 I am better able to understand what you are doing. I’ve done a couple roasts now with Artisan (it’s much better than my Chinese language tablet) and I’ve tried a lower charge of 160C and that has really helped to lengthen the roast time, as well, Artisan as I’ve discovered, has predictions of DE and FC that have been very helpful for me in making changes to the heat and fan settings to reach target times. My first couple roasts just sped through and I was done in 6 min with a really short browning phase. The one thing I have yet to figure out is how to have Artisan display the phase percentages as I go along, at the moment it only displays Dev % once I mark FC. I’m trying this AM a coffee I roasted yesterday (yes I was anxious to try) and it was a lot better than my first few roasts. Thanks for all the videos. By the way my new English tablet has shipped.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Nice Job Edward. Yes, artisan displays predictions in each phase. When you are in the middle phase, look to the right of the dry time and you will notice a time that is changing. This is the predicted first crack time. As your ror declines, this time gets longer. These are helpful tools but it is best for you to plan your events ahead and then control the heat to hit those target event times. For now, get familiar with the roaster performance and then start aiming for a time for the dry event. Let’s say 4:30 and then aim for a 8:30 first crack time. And then a 10:15 drop. I’ll be interested to hear what you think about the tablet compared to artisan. Thanks for the update!

[@Youtuberkt]

Have you tried the same using artisan on the same kaleido machine. would be helpful to see how the machine works with native software vs artisan.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I was hoping to show the difference on an upcoming video. The biggest difference is the sampling rate used between artisan and the Kaleido tablet. So, the tablet looks smoother but the data is basically the same.

[@renatocipriani93]

You have some ajustments at settings to find a better "auto mode" for your roasting style. Take a look, I'm not with my kaleido in hands now, but is sdome option like "how many seconds the software antecipate the reading for taking decicions"

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thank you @renatocipriani93 , I will look for those!

[@mattseibert8588]

When using Artisan to auto-roast on my M10 I have the same options, the PID controller controls the heat to match BT or it adjusts heat based on background curve heat settings. I've only used the former and have the same experience you did. The heat swings wild from 100 to 20 constantly. In Artisan, you can actually adjust the P, I, and D parameters to change how the controller responds, but I have yet to see and improvement with any settings I've tried to use (which is a lot). In the cup, I found more harsh flavors and roastiness, even on light roasts. I have yet to have a PID auto-roast out perform a manual roast in the cup. Hope to play with this more in the future as a begin to on understand my roaster and artisan better.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I hope to talk with the manufacturer about this. I will pass along your experience. Could you give more specific details of the Artisan settings and PID parameters you used ? I am going to test how the auto-roast setting to follow the background heat settings and compare. I would imaging it would perform just as if I was doing a manual roast without the wild swings. Thanks for sharing Matt.

[@mattseibert8588]

I’m using the following values in the control tab next to the start button: P-15.000, I-0.000, D-3.005, mode set to background (although I've tested a P value up to 45 with no real difference in the huge swing). The rest of the settings in the PID Control tab are default and I don't touch them. I have playback aid and playback drop both checked in the config tab of the background dialog box with "by BT chosen. I'd be glad to share my artisan settings file and any previous auto-roast .alog files if you'd like to see them. I'm interested to hear what the manufacturer has to say. I've just given up on the PID heat controlled auto roast for now. The events auto roast does much better but I'd DOES require a good, previous roast curve. I really like the idea of designing an "ideal" curve using Artisan Designer and then letting PID take over as, in theory, it should provide excellent results. But the PID controller just doesn't have good control of the heat when it's solely relying on BT curve and feedback from the system (not events).

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks Matt. Thanks for sharing! Let me see if I can start the conversation with Kaleido. I will let you know if I learn anything. I appreciate your willingness to provide feedback.

[@mattseibert8588]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I've dug into this a bit more and have found a great approach. This is using Artisan to PID, not the supplied tablet. My P and D values were way wrong. I found a kp value of 3 and kp value of 60 to give me much less range in heat change. I also couple it with some manual heat adjustments and get great results now. I posted a write-up on the Kaleido USA FB group and hope to do a video in the future...my first on KZbin.

[@edwardwaterhouse7698]

Hi Matt , just done a couple of test roasts using Artisan auto roast on my M2. If you don't mind me asking, what values do you recommend setting for the three p.i.d settings to get me going? Still learning artisan and the Kaleido. @@mattseibert8588

[@Youtuberkt]

does the machine not control the air automatically? doesn't make sense for it to be called automatic if we have to provide certain inputs manually.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I believe the machine can change all of the settings BUT in a recent roast I did in the auto mode following the Power Input (burner), the roast followed exactly the same pattern as the background roast. There were no huge fluctuations in the power/energy management being applied. It used the exact same power inputs I used in the background. I think I can set the machine to follow the drum and air settings as well but I have not done that yet. I hope to show that in a future video. Thanks for asking AND for watching. Honestly, the power is the most critical. I have found that if I leave my air at the same setting during the roast I have more control and consistency. So, I set it at 40 and leave it. Same with the drum. 300 gram batch I set to 80 or 90 percent drum speed. 400 gram batches get 100% drum speed. The only thing that is left is the power, which the roaster will follow.

[@DemirJPN]

Really helpful videos! Just a great source of roasting knowledge!👏 Any Aillio Bullet videos on the horizon? 😄

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I have an offer from a channel subscriber who lives near me to share his Bullet. So, yes, there will be some Bullet videos in the near future. I'm glad my videos have been helpful for you. Thanks for your comments and for watching.

[@Ufsnp1963]

Да. Поддерживаю просьбу уважаемого @DemirJPN!!!!

[@DemirJPN]

⁠@@VirtualCoffeeLab Yes! That is great to hear, Can’t wait. Your content is way beyond just helpful, the words gold mine and treasure trove come to mind!

[@jpkling]

Why do you drop your beans at 198 vs 200-204? The color looks good and I just bought the m1. I'm used to drooping around 398-405 F on my 2 kilo roaster with similar color.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

That is a great question and it is one of the biggest problems in the home coffee roasting community. We all have different types of roasting equipment and environments. My temperatures are different than yours so we can't just roast the exact same profile using the same temperatures. I was roasting with someone who had an M2 Kaleido and their temperatures were about 30f different than those on my M2. Much of this is how far the probes are pushed in.

[@erharddinges8855]

You are always up to date. Auto roasting must be great after having nailed the best profile manually. Will you continue? May be the PID of this roaster is not working narrowly enough? Intersting that the autoroast did almost the same even despite swinging problems!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Erhard, thanks for your kind words. Auto-Roasting was fun. It would be very easy to not pay attention to the roast because the machine does most of the work. On a couple of occasions I found myself forgetting to mark events. That is not a good thing. The convenience and repeatability are a great thing. I think I may use the Auto-Roast Feature with a roast I do every week. It is a roast for our church and requires about 800 grams of coffee. This could help me with consistency. Other than that I think I would not use the auto feature often. The Bean Temperature Mode is what I was using on the video. The machine followed the bean temperature very good. Unfortunately it was the Rate of Rise I am not happy with. Because of the liberal use of power to keep the bean temperature on track the rate of rise did not have a nice downward trend. It was way far outside acceptable parameters. I believe this is something that can be corrected by the manufacturer.

[@erharddinges8855]

Yes, these occassions are best for auto-roasting. Each bag tip-top. Did you try another mode also? Do you own all those roasters ? I was very close on buying a kaffeelogic sample roaster, but there is no chance to successfully translate curves to a drum roaster. There are differences from small to big roasts even on the same equipment. To be honest, I still am not entirely familiar with my 1kg AKS1 from Turkey, but it still makes fun, and I try to move to bettter greens.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I have not tried the other mode which follows the power input settings of the background roast. I would expect that to be simple but I should give it a try. I do not own the Kaleido M2 roaster. It is on loan to me for a little while longer and then I return it. It took me a while to comfortable with my Mill City 500 gram. Good things take time and practice 🙂

[@Ufsnp1963]

Спасибо за быстрый ответ!) Но поделитесь впечатлениями - чем удобнее пользовать в процессе обжарки на M2 планшетом или Artisan? Thank you for the quick response!) But share your impressions - what is more convenient to use during the roasting process on the M2 with a tablet or Artisan? Is the price different enough?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I enjoy both the standard tablet and using Artisan. If the tablet were larger (twice the size) I would love the tablet. Even so, I love using artisan. All of my roasting sessions use artisan. My entire roasting history on a drum roaster are artisan files. If you can afford it, get the dual system. You will have the benefits of both. If sharing profiles is important to you, use artisan. If money is an issue and you have not used artisan before, get the standard tablet (as long as your eyesight is good). There is a 200 dollar (USD) difference between the dual system that has both the tablet and artisan connectivity compared to just the Pro/Artisan version. There is a 300 dollar (USD) difference between the dual version and the Standard Kaleido system.

[@Ufsnp1963]

Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@VirtualCoffeeLab

[@Ufsnp1963]

Извините, но где Вы берете профили обжарки ? Имеется ли сайт, хранилище для смарта? Sorry, but where do you get the roast profiles? Do you have a website or smart storage?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thank you for watching and for being a subscriber. I roasted the coffee manually. I did this in the video but fast forward the first roast so I could focus on the second roast - the auto roast. I used the profile I roasted on the first roast as the background profile for the auto roast to follow. If you are interested in downloading profiles, I have one i posted in my previous video here kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIfOfIuEo7mejNk look in the description of the video for the link. Спасибо за просмотр и за то, что являетесь подписчиком. Я обжаривал кофе вручную. Я сделал это в видео, но перемотал первую обжарку вперед, чтобы сосредоточиться на второй обжарке - автоматической обжарке. Я использовал профиль, который обжарил при первой обжарке, в качестве фонового профиля для последующей автоматической обжарки. Если вас интересует загрузка профилей, у меня есть один, который я разместил в своем предыдущем видео здесь kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIfOfIuEo7mejNk ссылку ищите в описании к видео.

[@alecpulianas6919]

I would love to use auto roast for my hottop after recording in artisan but I haven't been able to figure out how it works, just know how to save a profile when controlling the machine directly. Currently I overlay a saved roast and just try and mimic it manually which works fairly well

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Alac, yea, that would depend on the model of Hottop you have. Read the manual. At a quick glance, the manual seems to have good instructions. Once you have a saved profile, you are almost there. Let me know if you get that figured out. I wish I could help but I have never used a hottop. Adrian ( @ajk2749 ) is one of my subscribers with a hottop and uses Artisan. Maybe he could offer some insight on how to do this?

[@shanewilson2152]

Hi Mike, another great video, it's a shame that you will have to give the roaster soon. You really have been enjoying using it, it's very obvious.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks Shane. Yea, That is OK. My Mill City is doing just fine for me. This machine is easier to operate but i need a bigger capacity for my weekly stuff.

[@nickr9784]

How does this roaster taste compared to your mill city?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

As far as performance, the Kaleido is quicker to respond to heat changes. I also think the drum is faster in the Kaleido so I can get more bean movement. As far as taste goes, I think the I have had some really good roasts with the Kaleido. I would be happy roasting with either machine. If a new home coffee roaster was in the market for a machine, would I encourage them to buy the Kaleido M2,6, or 10 rather than the Mill City 500 gram? I think so because there is a huge cost savings with the Kaleido and you get more features. The new MC500 gram is 6,500 dollars. I could buy 2 M10's for the price of 1 MC500. and they have double the capacity. As far as longevity goes, I have had great experience with the MC500. It is a tank. I would need more time to see what problems may arise with the Kaleido. I like the bluetooth connectivity to artisan, the PID control, the standard tablet option and the faster drum speeds of the Kaleido. I don't like the chaff system on the Kaleido. I wish it had a larger capture system. You have to be really diligent to empty the chaff after every roast. They are two completely different types of technology for heating and roasting and they both do a great job.

[@nickr9784]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab perfect exactly the info I was hoping to hear. Thank you!

[@mostafanaga4]

Did you try the auto mode following the burner settings yet? I think it will be more reliable and less swings will happen. By the way your videos is very helpful and truly can't tell you how i really enjoy every minute of it. Thanks bro and keep it up ❤👏

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching. I’m glad you enjoyed my video. Yes, since this video I have roasted using the auto mode following the burner. You are right. It was very close to the same roast it was following with similar ROR, bean temp and event times. There were no big swings because the auto roast followed my burner inputs exactly 👍. I did notice it is really important the roaster is set up exactly as it was with the background roast. Et, Bt, air, drum And batch size all have to be exactly the same as the background to have a successful alignment with the background. Having said that I love the Kaleido for having this feature. I’m very pleased with the results. Do you have an M2?

[@kensafranek2306]

Could you try a less dev on same coffee? Maybe 15% I’m sure they can adj software

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Ken, thanks for watching. Yeah, that coffee is too dark for my daily preferences. Many like the darker side of Medium. I don't think the coffee needed less development. I think it needed a lower ending temperature with the same development. I am finding the sweet spot for my roast level on the Kaleido to be around 192-195c. I went to 202ish on these roasts and the moisture loss verified this. I like about a 13% moisture loss while this was almost 15%. I hope to talk with them about this at some point. I think it is something they can adjust.

[@Ufsnp1963]

Я полагаю если бы этоповторить на модели M6 - то кофе получился бы еще темнее из-за мощности энергии??? Или я ошибаюсь? Как Вы думаете? Я рассматриваю к покупке именно M6.....I suppose if this were repeated on the M6 model, the coffee would turn out even darker due to the power of the energy??? Or I'm wrong? How do you think? I'm considering buying the M6.....

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

@@Ufsnp1963 every roaster will be different. As far as auto-roasting this profile on the M6 I have no idea. But using the auto-roast on the M6 will also have the liberal use of power causing the large swings in the ET and ROR. I believe the results will be the same as what we saw on the M2. The ET and ROR had big variances BUT they averaged out. Looking at my example of the ET where the manual roast displayed that nice arc, the auto-roast ET went way outside the ET background line BUT as an average temperature, it followed the arc. Same thing with the ROR. The swings were there but the average ROR followed my background. So, I would expect the same behavior of the M6. A user of the M10 has confirmed his experience is the same as my M2. See the post here in the comments of this video.

[@kensafranek2306]

Too Much Fun

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

yea, it was pretty fun!

[@Ufsnp1963]

Спасибо!!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thank you very much for watching!

[@moorejl57]

Being a software engineer for high volume manufacturing, it seems really odd to me how it is managing the roast. Since it already has the power and air curves available, it seems like it should follow that by default and make small adjustments from there to accommodate environmental differences.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I agree. I have not tried the "follow burner" option where the machine basically mimics my power inputs from the background roast (the first manual roast in the video). I hope to talk with Kaleido about this if I get the opportunity. Regardless, it is in the video which i hope they will see. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and for watching my video.

[@RickieBirkhead]

Has anyone used Artisan on a Mill City 500g?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I have many times. I have a 2017 version

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

It is my primary / daily roaster except for the past couple months while I use this Kaleido M2

[@RickieBirkhead]

MC is not listed in the config drop down menu and can’t find information on the device type. MC not helpful.

[@RickieBirkhead]

My 500g is a 2021.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

You would do a manual config. I would email Mill City support and ask them for help connecting to Artisan. Are you currently using RoastPath? See this link which includes their tech support phone number millcityroasters.com/pages/coffee-roaster-datalogging-automation-software

[@belovedbrew]

Try auto roast using artisan software

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I have used the auto roast function on the Kaleido with Artisan. I hope to do some videos showing this. Currently, I know how to use the auto roast which follows the BT. But, I would love to know how to set the PID to follow the Power and air inputs of the background roast. Do you know how to do that?

[@belovedbrew]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I'm actually not sure how to do that either. So its more of a semi-auto roast. its still easy to follow but I'm trying to figure out if that's something it is capable of doing through the PID or maybe you have to purchase Artisan Plus to gain that feature.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

With the Kaleido, using artisan software, choose a background roast. Go to "roast>background" and select the file. Then click "Auto" button in Artisan and the roaster will preheat to the charge temperature of the roast in the background. When ready to roast, click "start" in artisan, put the beans in the roaster and then the "charge" button. The roaster follows the Bean Temp automatically.

[@GODsSPECTRE]

Yes the only issue is that it doesn't adjust the air and drum speeds. I'm still having to do that manually.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

OK, I understand now. At some point I will be talking with the manufacturer about this. I'm interested in figuring this out as well.

[@shinryusaiha]

Why don't they just implement a feature to replicate your inputs? as in, after preheat then charge, duplicate your changes at the exact time you made the changes? following temps seems less precise. Sub'd great channel!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Kaleido has this feature already. At the point of this video i had not used it yet. I was focusing on their BT option. They have a Burner option that follows the inputs of the burner. I'm not sure if it follows the air and drum speed as well. I think this could be programmed but i'm not positive. I am looking into this. Having said that, I did roast with the Auto Roast Burner setting and it was wonderful. No huge swings. ROR, ET, BT all were really really close. It is critical that everything remains the same including Beans, Charge Weight, SV (set value at charge/charge temp) and ET. If that is all the same then it is a home run. Thanks for watching, your comment and for being a subscriber!

[@ferologics]

@@VirtualCoffeeLabthat’s an important note to leave for future watchers

[@shanewilson2152]

Give it back

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yep, I got it....