How to balance viewing angles, listening distance, and room modes?

[@MyFatherLoves]

This is an incredible video to do. Most people don't realize that if you focus on getting your seat(s) out of what modes may be leftover after proper sub placement and you want a THX viewing angle (or wider), you will likely need a much larger screen than you think you do.

[@BobFrostV]

Very fun video! It made my drive home not a chore ;)

[@Risandi_Pradipto]

Regarding the balancing act: does it mean that, somehow, by locating the seats at the third rear of the room in order to make the LCR more prone to reflective vs direct sound, we are compelled to seat closer to the surround speakers? Is it still practical to use identical speakers for all bed channel? Thanks, Matthew. Informative content as usual.

[@GTGrabber]

Great video. I started closer to the screen for viewing angle but moved back 24" to mqke the audio "better". Now I need a larger screen. Currently at 126" wide screen 146" back so a 47 viewing angle. Ive calculated my ideal to be a 144" wide screen as well.

[@PoesAcoustics]

It’s tricky getting it all right. There is probably nothing I mess with more than this. When I design rooms, I fuss with this parameter the most.

[@DIGGERS881]

For me, it’s all about vertical viewing angle. It determines the perceived size of the image more than horizontal. I use a scope screen and view at 2X screen height. I believe that is about 60 degrees horizontal.Go with the height that is just short of being overwhelming and let the width define itself based on aspect ratio. Scope movies, on a 16x9 screen loose the impact the filmmaker intended. Guidelines are a bit of a joke as there is massive range in the recommended viewing angle. It’s all about each individual’s personal preference. People sit all over the place in a commercial cinema. 7:48 7:48

[@NicolaeLorimer]

Thanks Matt!

[@PoesAcoustics]

Happy to help!

[@stevenlawrence2232]

Thank Matt. Great video concerning something I never gave a lot of thought. I put my measurements into home theater engineerings calculator (120" 16x9 and 12' 6 from screen surface to couch head rest (unreclined) ) and got 38 degrees. Thats just outside the thx rec of 36 (which it probably would be when I recline) and I find that pretty spot on to be honest. Very comfortable. If youre saying we should be at 52 deg. Wow I reckon I would be close enough to see Darth Vaders nose hair's if he had any at that distance 😂. Each to their own but I would agree with Gene. That is awfully close. In my setup with just meagre levels of treatment I can definitely see an illustration of your point about more reflections. I did in fact think I was too close to mine, but I guess not. I think my rt60 when I took a single measurement of it was 0.6. not absolutely horrible but obv could be a lot better.

[@nevohraalnavnoj]

When you moved the seats forward, did you adjust the speaker levels for the new, more forward seating? I haven't heard the Perlistens yet, very curious how the listening experience changes with seating distance.

[@gjhunter9326]

Perhaps the optimal viewing angle should be thought of as a "zone" too, like speakers, since most of us aren't static when we watch content. I sit 11', 12'6" away when reclining, from a 132" wide AT screen and it is perfect for me. That puts me roughly 12-13 feet away from the front stage speakers too, which sounds good to my ears. I also have a 65" OLED in our living room, which in many ways looks better than my 4k pixel shifting projector. I have a nice little 5.1 setup with it and we enjoy watching TV and sometimes sports on it. But for cinema, it doesn't cut it.

[@dougb339]

In designing a new home, we want a media/living room that is open in back to the kitchen/dining area. I'm thinking 10' ceiling, and about 18' wide. From what I've read, the ideal length (for music listening anyway) would be abour 27', but this will likely be more like 40' to the back of the kitchen. Is this a significant compromise vs. having a closed off, rectangular shaped room of "ideal" dimensions? Also, is the "golden ratio" applicable/the same for theater vs. music listening purposes? Thanks!

[@TheVid54]

I'm stuck with a narrow, long rectangular room for a one-man screening room. It's only 10 ft. wide with a 8.5 ft. ceiling, so I filled the wall with a 16:9 screen and like sitting 7 ft. away from the projected image. Don't know the viewing angle but it's like 7th row center at The Egyptian Theatre and I like it. I was listening to near-field, under-screen speakers originally, but then found my old mirage nanosats and used them for left and right front and surround speakers; suddenly, a reflective sound field returned. I'm glad I never sold those old-but-amazing omni-directional wonders. I still use my thin, sealed 4-way JBL LC2 on-wall center channel because it's the best I've ever heard when you can't place speakers behind the screen. I've always preferred my images projected, and I still enjoy classic 3-D, so I'm quite satisfied with the small room compromises I've had to make.

[@HercDryvr]

What sort of treatment do you have on your ceiling?

[@matta9316]

Do some wave forming content please! Impressions and best practices

[@Saturn2888]

The biggest issue with my 97" OLED is placing the center channel. That's the hardest thing to do when you don't have an acoustically transparent screen. I agree, I'd like a larger screen so I can sit further back. I'm 3-7' way from my Ascendo 12s, and they're pretty freakin' loud. If the reason they sound loud is because I'm too close, that's making sense.

[@MyFatherLoves]

LCDs need to get much bigger and far cheaper before they catch up to projectors... I keep coming back to how good an OLED looks but if you're willing to shell out for an excellent ALR screen and a decent projector, you can get that decent display experience during the day that you'd have anyway with a glossy OLED, but you'd have an experience at night that far surpasses the OLED. But like you said, you could make a far smaller home theater to use a premium tv and a near-field surround setup. It would be really sick like that but the sweet spot is basically 1 seat wide, maaaaybe 2. But it would be an incredible near-field setup.

[@edgyjorgensen3286]

I get chirping noises (digital garbage) coming through occasionally when switching video modes on several devices. Xbox one series X has the most common occurrences and the Apple TV being the second. The chirps seem to be caused by a mode switch such as sdr to hdr or allm to non-allm. Think of this almost like modem noise mixed with a few ms of hiss. Usually less than 50ms in duration when it does occur. It’s somewhat rare. Any idea what causes this over HDMI and do you have any idea how to fix it? Experiencing it on Marantz Cinema 50 and another Anthem unit I tried. Couldn’t get it to happen/error on Sony for what it’s worth. I only experience this with Atmos (highest probably of glitch noise) and DTS:X (next most common). eARC is generally worse but I do still get this to happen while running the entire hdmi path through the receiver first, just less so.

[@michaelslocumbsr.2286]

Lol! I've heard that before as well...Read RP22 four times over the weekend...A butt load of information...

[@PoesAcoustics]

It is a lot.

[@michaelslocumbsr.2286]

​@@PoesAcousticsYes sir! I keep reading different sections to get a feel for Level 3&4 requirements...

[@fonkenful]

And for us poor schmoes with non-optimal room shapes (basement rooms with protruding fireplaces, descending staircases, large picture windows, etc) who can barely envision a Level 1.5, it can all be a bit depressing. Not everyone can accommodate a projector and acoustically transparent screen - I’m stuck with a 77” OLED and viewing distance of approx 12 ft, and having been futzing around trying to dial in a 7.1.4 Atmos configuration. It turns out from a cursory reading of RP 22 that only the front row 3 are close to an optimal location, and that all the surrounds and height / overheads are off. Oh well, more practice for me with the gyproc saw and patching😂 First world problems.

[@michaelslocumbsr.2286]

@@fonkenful Understood! My current setup is in the family room with three walls... Obviously, one is open... Ceiling height is there, however it's temporary...I read RP22 for a new build. It outlines a lot things that I was thinking about...

[@michaelslocumbsr.2286]

@@fonkenful Bottom line! Take your time! You'll get where you want to be...

[@Carl-iw9sy]

I always wonder if towing your speakers when placed behind an AT like micro perf is still useful or if the screen material degrade the sound.

[@tom6363]

I think I understand what you are saying but this would mean that people who can’t have large projection systems and exact viewing angles can’t have good sound. I’m no purist but have 85 inch Sony TV sitting 9 ft away with towers L and R of screen. My calculated viewing angle is about 38 degrees (close to THX of 40 degrees). My room limitations prohibit a larger screen. I can move closer to get more immersive viewing but don’t want to be that close to my front JBL sound stage. It’s all about trade offs with people (like me) that cannot have large dedicated rooms and equipment. However we all can have very good experiences with what we have.

[@ChadAV69]

50 degrees is best for me for dedicated viewing. It needs to be smaller for a more casual experience though

[@VoodooZ]

I still prefer an OLED over a projector simply because performance/price ratio.. I can justify a 5k$ OLED but not a 15k projector.

[@ChadAV69]

? Just get a jvc for 5k

[@VoodooZ]

@@ChadAV69 Meh. Still won't beat my OLED for gaming and otherwise. Especially when you consider the price of a screen.

[@PoesAcoustics]

Your right. The main advantage of OLED and lcd is price. You just can’t equal the performance for the money. You can now get a 83” OLED from Samsung for relatively cheap. Sit close enough and it’s fine. It’s not my preference and such rooms won’t meet the highest standards, but for the money it’s hard to beat. The picture is phenomenal. When 120” OLED’s come out with prices under $25k I think it will change the calculus further. I would still favor a projector for the sound factor. But I would recommend those big OLEDs a lot more often if they were available in such a size.

[@erod9088]

OLEDs are great for sports, gaming, and general TV warding, Projectors are far better for cinematic experience.

[@fonkenful]

Cost alone is not the only reason to elect for a flatscreen TV of any technology over a projector / screen. In my case, the room dominated the location of TV on a stand in front of an 8ft wide half height north facing picture window in basement room. A motorized pleated blackout screen took care of light intrusion during daytime / early evening viewing. After over 60 yrs in the hobby, one can learn how to make the compromises that work for each of our particular use cases- it’s a very small number of us who have the luxury and resources to avoid those.

[@pauledwards8721]

Great video. Instantly made me think of another question 😄 How do you calculate the transition of the direct to reflected sound distance for speakers in a room? Wouldn’t it vary based on the interaction of the room as well? 🤔

[@PoesAcoustics]

Nearfield to farfield is a function of the speaker and not the room. You may be thinking the transition from predominantly direct sound to predominantly reflected sound. Based on the direct to reflected ratio.

[@FOH3663]

(edit; apologies ... this was for pauledwards) The transition you reference is called Critical Distance. Yes, it can be calculated, however the seemingly countless variables involved make it unwieldy. Just looked it up; Critical distance = Square root of (degree of directivity × surface absorption equivalence, divided by π) ... finally multiply by .25 fwiw, critical distance is the point whereby reflected energy is equal to direct energy.