How To Become A Leader That People Respect

[@taranjeetkaur5339]

"The problem with the Starks is not that they are honourable and just, but that they expect others to be honourable and just like them "

[@SharukhSaifi]

This is problem with most of us.

[@jimbowlaster3659]

Exactly, not everyone follows the same code of rules/ethics and they may not have the luxury to all the time, Ask Jaime Lannister, it irritates me that half the viewers don't understand that he can't go full hero instead of Anti-hero considering how much he has to lose in the show.

[@6ixlxrd]

@@SharukhSaifi Glad it isn't a problem with me. "Power is only given to those who are willing to lower themselves to pick it up." -Ragnar Lothbrok.

[@lukesavior3166]

Truee

[@brothaantone8286]

Sharukh Saifi Agreed

[@chloem6609]

Biggest problem of the Stark men: predictability. Their honor and loyalty is admirable, but it also makes them predictable because they will always try to do exactly what they say they'll do.

[@continuousself-improvement1879]

Except when Robb promised to marry Frey's daughter but then did not.

[@josefferda460]

@TrapLordHodorThere is no problem with it, its Westeros thats flawed

[@hearmeroar6691]

@@josefferda460 However for survival we need to adjust according to our surroundings. I admire them though, not my favourite characters but stubborn and do not compromise their values.

[@MattGarcyaDC]

Straightforward too

[@mncedisikhupe1475]

@@josefferda460 The world is flawed too...good depiction

[@coconutsciencegirl9232]

“My fathers dead...” “What killed him?” “Loyalty “

[@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714]

Lack of it.

[@augutusiroh3836]

It was stupidity

[@2wimpies556]

The lack of apostrophe in his words is making me uncomfortable

[@randomnamesoicanfindmyself3123]

@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 ?

[@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714]

@@randomnamesoicanfindmyself3123 It was the lack of loyalty in the south that killed him. Or it was his lack of loyalty to the north, to the point of being disloyal to the south.

[@tofjip]

"Sometimes when I try to understand a person's motives, I play a little game. I assume the worst. "

[@AngelA-zz8ph]

Sansa: Lesson learned, lord Baelish.

[@yungwells6549]

The reason the Starks held the North for hundreds of years is because they took care and support their bannermen, so in return they had their ultimate loyalty. Yes you may call them fools, but that is just because they were dealing with totally different people with little to no *honor* than to which they knew.

[@freedomtruthis6498]

Well your making the video's point. You cannot assume others share your values. That was the point. It is in fact naive and stupid.

[@myugenjin]

City folk vs country folk

[@locomastero]

To be fair the Lannisters are in the same path right now. With the exception of Tyrrion.

[@elapin1998]

"The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives". Pretty much Ned's advice to Arya

[@vibovitold]

based on what we see in GoT, it's so easy to take a house down that one has to wonder how any house ever managed to physically survive for longer than two generations, not to mention to maintain any influence...

[@zabaoth]

The moment I saw Ned was Sean Bean, I knew he was fucked. But the curse also extended to his family, servants, and even pets.

[@mteresavaldes2251]

Adrian Jutronich wish pets would have been left alone

[@OMMCOMHD]

Adrian Jutronich Even his home😂

[@D__Cain]

Adrian Jutronich lmao, I was so happy he was still acting but Bruh. He died after one season. Shit is too funny

[@sailor7537]

"All men must die, who are in anyway close to Sean Bean." - Screen Junkies

[@hatthomas555]

There's a compilation video of all his on-screen deaths...and it is *extensive* ! XD

[@TheCandymusiclover]

Another reason I appreciate Sansa's story is that she learns quickly that everyone is not her friend. She sees firsthand how people who were supposed to be on her side work for their self-interest instead; her own aunt turning on her made that clear. She keeps that in mind moving forward.

[@warbler1984]

Given what happened with the Lannisters, Littlefinger and the Boltons he learned quite slowly. The only reason she didn't die is because her enemies wanted her alive

[@ForteExpresso]

She learned that lesson quickly becoz of Joffery. She liked him But soon bcoz of him Lady and Ned had to die

[@janellejulianajoy]

@@warbler1984 As she said, "I'm a slow learner, it's true. But, I learn". By the time season, eight comes in; she had wisened up. If you are in an isolated cabin at the top of a hill with a million snakes making their way to your door, do you go out and handpick the poisonous ones, all the while getting bitten. Or, do you hold them at arm's length until you can adequately identify those that could potentially kill you? Winterfell is that hill, and outsiders are the snakes.

[@seth_fitzgerald]

Ofc she learns no one is faulting her for that, but no one would continue to give her props if her actions are against her family or the values.

[@strikerfrost7222]

Jesus how perfect was the casting for this show? Not only do the actors for Jon and Robb play their roles gloriously but they also look like f'ing brothers

[@babyboynoluv66]

Unfortunately they’re only cousins in the show

[@damiandusk9187]

@@babyboynoluv66 I share more qualities to my female cousin than I do to my 6 brothers. They can still look alike.

[@babyboynoluv66]

@@damiandusk9187 I understand that but in the show they’re cousins not brothers

[@nonameselected7250]

@ㄉㄎㄉ • ꨆꨟꨮꩆ ꨣꨰꨕ In what way are Starks anything like Asian/Chinese families lol. Y’all some of the most toxic families in the world

[@Sabciaszek]

It's actually funny, because in the books they're not supposed to look alike. Robb is more into Tullys and Jon is the one who resembles Starks most (together with Arya).

[@oltsyo3442]

I think that the reason why Ned put his trust in Littlefinger is EXACTLY because he was in love with Catelyn. Catelyn once told Ned that Littlefinger is like a little brother to him and would never betray her. I think Ned knew that he couldnt trust Littlefinger, but he thought that he could trust that Littlefinger would do whats right for Catelyn, as he was in love with her. I agree that the Starks greatest weakeness is their honor though. Ned acknowledged that King's Landing is a dangerous place, as he mentioned a few times, he was just too innocent to survive all the power hungry snakes. "Ahh.. the Starks, quick tempers, slow minds" - Littlefinger.

[@oltsyo3442]

Also Ned wasnt exactly a stupid person, he figured out about Ser Arryn being poisoned and that Joffrey is a bastard as soon as he got to King's Landing. He also found Robert's bastard son (Gendry).. I mean the guy was pretty sharp tbh.

[@derektetteh1608]

olts yo I agree with you about Ned not being completely stupid but I don't agree that he was sharp either. Ned and Jon Arryn were only able to figure out Gendry was Roberts bastard because they already knew what Robert looked like when he was young and Gendry had much of his likeness. Additionally if Edward was sharp he would have never trusted little finger at all.

[@gordankarlic7188]

Well ned is dump if he thinks somebody in love with your wife will help you, last person littlefinger would want to help is guy banging woman he loves.

[@samearaera]

Catelyn was a fool, simple as. It's been what...18 years since the last time she saw him, where he fought for her hand and got sliced open for it.

[@charlie172011]

smart as a detective but not at getting people

[@BabyKrogan]

If I were Ned I would have gone to straight to Robert rather than Cersei.

[@cocodakilla]

take robert in front of the people and tell everyone !!!

[@mitchgriffin2611]

what if he were wrong, he would be sentencing innocent people to death

[@Antonioperrota]

That time Robert was on a hunt...

[@chazbono3721]

he did it so cersei could save her family and it cost him his life

[@BabyKrogan]

Chaz Bono I know why he did it, I wouldn't have done the same. There's no way she could be trusted even slightly. I also think Ned could possibly have convinced Robert not to kill the kids (rather just disinherit and maybe exile them). He did eventually change his mind about killing Danerys.

[@Somitten]

It's not that Ned Stark is stupid. It's because he is from the North. They operate under a different set of ethics, honour and code. It's a different culture up there. Also, House Stark is honour bound because that is how they uphold respect. They play by the rules whereas people in the South don't have to.

[@BOSIE321]

They've also held onto power for 1000 years haven't they? (well until recently anyway). Must be doing something right (well, again, until recently).

[@acutefailure1]

No one is saying he's stupid, just ignorant of reality in the south

[@Aussiex77x]

But it is not wise to assume that other houses will carry themselves with the same values and ethics.

[@terrencefrederick7795]

Well said I agree

[@terrencefrederick7795]

Right it's not the starks fault at all.

[@07Rasengan07]

"Never tell anybody outside the family what you're thinking" - Vito Corleone (The Godfather)

[@JamesRDavenport]

Salud!

[@mr.mccainsmonologue1456]

Amen

[@omergavriel7205]

Roose Bolton did everything he said. He ended up poisoned by his enemies.

[@iliketotrolololololo]

Hahaha, yeah "poisoned by his enemies"

[@nvRanger]

Food taster? He stabbed him...

[@DanielSilva-qf6nf]

+TuphSteel What do you mean? it is clear he was poisoned by his enemies Ramsay himself confirms that and he should know he was there

[@Kinos141]

right. poisoned.

[@NewWorldOrderFAIL]

I found roose telling Ramsay about his new son as very dumb. he knew what was going to happen. would've been better off making sure they went back to the freys and kept it low low or even kill Ramsay himself

[@dzh1239]

The problem with the the Starks is they are too honorable. They are so honorable that they think others are honorable as well. They think that everyone around them is telling the truth when they really aren't making them easy ro deceive

[@dzh1239]

+Faceless Man those things are also factors. However I think ultimately honor is the Starks greatest strength and greatest weakness

[@KetwunsGamingPad]

The female Starks have learned at least.

[@mashek331]

That's because they've lost their men/brothers and been lucky enough to not fall under a blade (Catelyn withholding)... If they haven't learned by now to be snakes themselves then we have problems.

[@MrWheelchairstud]

+Ketorulz I was about to say that. the young stark women have learned the game.

[@justinrice5405]

There's a great Trope for this: Honor Before Reason.

[@AntiCitizenX]

In all fairness, Tyrion gets betrayed all the time as well.

[@breasticle6653]

But he's still alive.

[@kuroodo_]

That's because he is a half man and is/was playing the game of thrones

[@anglozombie2485]

he has plot armor

[@samismx]

That's only really because he's an imp. If he was as tall as jamie he would probably have a similar amount of respect.

[@mismismism]

The difference being, Tyrion usually sees it coming and understands people will betray him so he's prepared, thus, still alive, the Stark men have no awareness of others so they all get blind sided and killed even when there were obvious solutions.

[@chavamara]

I will point out, Sansa is learning to get around these problems!

[@karinaiwabuchi8212]

chavamara she definitely is!

[@chonkywater6129]

She still is to this day

[@TheV8Pumpkin]

@@karinaiwabuchi8212 she was kind of raised in her mature ages at the capital lol

[@ashaadarin3934]

Slowly, I wish it focused more on that than everything with Ramsay. I used to love Sansa, and I loved her relationship with littlefinger and how she was slowly learning. But she was ruined for me after all that and she kinda turned into a know it all.

[@unknownchannel3141]

Queen of the North for a reason

[@Blade-hf9po]

Robb is the one that infuriated me. I just rewatched a few episodes from Season 3 and well, the Red Wedding was so obvious. He resfused to marry a girl, which was quite an offense to that old frye(fray? idr). And Robb still expect this guy to side with him. that was a VERY stupid move.

[@Antennenwels1]

frey

[@sppotterstark8057]

You dont kill someone for not marrying your daughter .

[@properduction2586]

@@sppotterstark8057 You dont expect someone to help you if you didnt marry his daughter...

[@brianlam257]

In Robb's defense, that old frey did bait him with false hope by sending a messenger with harsh conditions. That led Robb (wrongly) think the Freys would still be an ally if he can meet those conditions. Even his mother falls for that though she has known the freys for decades

[@sppotterstark8057]

@@properduction2586 True But you miss the point . Frey could have chosen to sit the war out . He chose to murder robb and Catelyn. I hope lady Catelyn/stoneheart, arya, Jon, Sansa murders every frey, bolton and Lannister ( no one must live ) all towers must fall - frey All red kings flayed - boltons All lions must die- Lannisters All roses must wither - tyrell All stags must rise- for gendry All wolves must howl- Starks Justice for westeros . Something the Lannisters will never give to any commoner or royals . The books must end similar to the show with either of the starks on the throne but without dany death or if she dies - let it be heroic.

[@ShadowShroud7]

1) Ned didn't initially trust or like Littlefinger, he only worked with him because Catelyn vouched for Baelish. I'd also point out that Baelish was the one manipulating Starks and Lannisters to fight each other from the moment he poisoned Jon Arryn and told Lysa to blame the Lannisters for it. 2) Ned wasn't underestimating Cersei, he rightly deduced that she had no true power on her own. With the information that he had, there was no way of predicting that Robert would get killed by a boar. The fact that Cersei's plan worked is sheer luck as boars aren't naturally aggressive creatures and would've been more likely to flee Robert than attack him unless provoked or cornered. That said, it honestly only worked because the plot needed Robert to die. 3) Ned has empathy (see his treatment of his servants, wife, children and most people in general), the problem is that it's near-impossible to step into the shoes of a selfish and sociopath. Especially if said sociopath is a master at hiding their intentions and true nature. 4) Martin's confirmed that even if Robb hadn't broken his word, the Freys would've betrayed him anyway. 5) Becoming King in the North was the will of Robb's people, how is that not aligning himself with his people's wants? 6) Karstark never would've settled for waiting till after the war. Also, giving someone what they want should never come at losing what you want as well. The Kingslayer was a vital hostage and letting Karstark kill him would do more harm than good. What Cat did was stupid, but Karstark crossed the line when he killed Stark/Tully guards and murdered the Lannister boys. If Robb hadn't executed Karstark, he would've lost more than just the Karstarks and would've lost a lot of respect from his men. 7) No, Edmure's fault is his own. He was given a direct order and he disobeyed it, that's Edmure's responsibility. Edmure's lucky that he wasn't punished more severely for insubordination. In the books, it's made clear that Edmure's actions are based on rashness and a desire to uphold his pride after his losses earlier in the war. But Edmure fails to understand that attacking Tywin keeps Tywin's armies in the Riverlands where they'll continue to harm and terrorize Edmure's people. Even without knowing the whole plan, Edmure should've been willing to let Tywin go west and only fight if attacked as Riverrun would be able to withstand a siege. Robb delegated Edmure the task of protecting the Riverlands and Edmure failed by stopping Tywin from leaving the Riverlands. 8) Bullshit. Jon and others have known about the Walkers since Season 1 when a wight tried to murder Lord-Commander Mormont. Some of the Night's Watch know that Craster is sacrificing his baby boys to the Walkers; Many were slaughtered at the Fist of the First Men; and after capturing several wildlings and interrogating them, the Watch should know exactly why Mance was trying to get past the Wall. Which is confirmed by the Hardhome massacre. If the traitors in the Watch didn't understand the threat, then that's their fault. A Watchman is only at fault when he fails to warn the people of the coming danger. But if the Watchman has given multiple warnings and pointed to many signs of the danger and the people still ignore him, the destruction of that town is their fault. They've seen some of the signs themselves and Jon has reminded them of the truth, but they're too caught in their own stubborn hatred to fully realize what all of this means. There's only so much that Jon could've done with such stiff-necked idiots. Vague threat? Jon was short and to the point with Olly. Jon fought against wildlings too and lost several best friends during the Battle for Castle Black. Jon's honor and life was put on the line because of the wildlings. Jon understands his brother's hatred of the Wildlings, but he's wise enough to think beyond himself and to know that the Night's Watch is meant to protect the realms of men against Winter. That includes the wildlings whether you like them or not. He also knows that the Watch will need allies against the Walkers or they will all die, just like the brothers who died at the Fist of the First Men. Also, it's nice how you omit the fact that Jon did get through to the Wildlings with the techniques you describe and persuaded them to start leaving Hardhome. Most of them did die anyway, but the fact that Jon persuaded the usually stubborn and free-spirited free folk to leave and managed to save some of them should not be overlooked. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Also, being a leader means doing things that people won't like or want. But those things are necessary for the cause and people will recognize that in the future. If you give everyone what they want all of the time, they never grow and sometimes, it causes long-term harm. This is a method of leadership that historically holds up and that's why the show's dumbing down of the Starks is so annoying. The books give a more balanced and fair perspective on the leadership capabilities of the Stark Men. Their only flaw is that they're not backstabbing schemers which puts them at a disadvantage against backstabbing schemers. But if the Starks were just as bad as their enemies then they would lose the admirable qualities that we love about them. (looking at you Sansa)

[@devinmccourty1500]

This comment deserves more likes

[@IdaSantti]

Devin McCourty way more

[@Pushitdummyinc]

Devin McCourty and then some

[@DanBrown96]

But Catelyn is also a notoriously poor judge of character and Ned knows that about her. Of course Littlefinger is pulling strings, that's always been his modus operandi. The point is that Ned should have known that. The fact that Baelish loves his wife is exactly WHY Ned shouldn't trust him, regardless of what Catelyn or Baelish say. Sansa, on the other hand NEVER trusted Baelish and watched and waited until he showed his hand.

[@MichelleSchollian]

ShadowShroud7 .. I just love how you have broken it all down .. And still told it just like it is .. And it's so true .. Everything that you have said here .. Absolutely ..

[@w-james9277]

The Starks. Good people, but not the brightest.

[@briansouthparkstudio1357]

lucky for them that most of the stark bannerman are loyal to the starks and the starks alone ( outright confirmed in the books basically every house in the north is planning to kill the frey's and bolton's to the last and plan a stark back in command of the north)

[@grimaldus1523]

They are loyal because the starks are good people.

[@josephpasquarella878]

Quick tempers, slow minds..

[@akubudakboy9218]

DJ fade he is half stark, half targaryen and he is loyal to house stark.

[@Annuska1995]

DJ fade He grew up among starks

[@kevinjohnanand]

But the thing you're forgetting is that Ned's honor was what made him so beloved in the North. That honor was what created so much loyalty to his name. Tywin is a great contrast to this. He was certainly very smart. But after he died, his whole family collapsed. Because nobody cares about the Lannister name when Tywin isn't there.

[@cordels.1179]

"Your a good man, with a good heart....and its hard for a good man to be a king.."

[@derektetteh1608]

I think Rob the worst Stark when it came to making decisions. He should have kept Richard Karstark alive since he controls a massive portion of Robbs army; keeping them loyal was essential. The most laughable thing Robb did was marrying Talisa(betraying the Frey's) and then expecting the Frey's help. I think even Ned and Jon would be like brruuhh! 😑😤

[@tywinlannister-videoeditor5057]

Rob was probably a bigger mess then even John Snow, if you ask me.

[@ojogbaneamedu2501]

Derek Tetteh Rob was my favourite character but your completely right.

[@ColArana]

Agreed. Marrying Talisa was idiotic. At least it was understandable why he married Jeyne in the books.

[@yudebeats1076]

You're right. Also If robb didn't execute richard karstark then rickon would probably be still alive as well

[@ColArana]

Let's be fair here. Catelyn ruined Robb's efforts first by releasing Jaime. She's also the one who started the entire war on a kneejerk reaction that anyone could have figured out was a frame-up. Tyrion blatantly points out how obvious it was that he was being framed (Slightly paraphrased but I believe it was to the effect of "What kind of idiot arms an assassin with his own dagger?") If Catelyn had not released Jaime without Robb's consent, Robb would not have lost the Kastarks. Robb honestly, wasn't wrong to ignore her counsel, she gave as much poor counsel as she did useful. Really, Brynden Tully was the only advisor Robb needed.

[@user-ie3lx7uv1q]

Littlefinger : “ Oh, Starks.....quick tempered, slow mind”.

[@akshayKumar-xw1cy]

Tell that to sansa🙂

[@reynaldof.mapajr.9795]

@@akshayKumar-xw1cy Sansa Lannister

[@qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm....]

@@akshayKumar-xw1cy Sansa Bolton

[@mineisanonymity1410]

The Starks were betrayed not because they want to do the right thing, but because they trust the wrong ppl.

[@janellejulianajoy]

Your last sentence speaks volumes. Why does no one else get this?

[@716_ハディくん]

@@janellejulianajoy because we live in such corrupt world

[@aliakapoor]

Exactly, I love the Starks but must they trust everyone always even when those people are little finger and lysa or walder Frey? Arya Stark is my favourite stark child because she knows when a person is to be trusted and when to not trust that person, she sees people for who they are even as a kid. She knows joffery is a shithead, she knows they would not spare nymeria and I love that she does her best to avenge her family. Lyanna Mormont was an honorable girl and so was her whole house and even tho she was a child she knew better than to trust everyone, she spoke to the Starks with respect but she didn't swoon but she would never betray them. So, you're right they wasted no time trusting some of the scummiest people too fast. And trust should always be earned not thrown around like confetti.

[@strutter0505]

How dare you call my honorable lord ned a moron? The north will never forget this.

[@danlorett2184]

He is a moron though. He's also probably the most honorable person in GoT (or close to it) but your honor and $1 will get you a cup of coffee. That's the ugly truth of the real world and especially of Westeros. Ned just assumed everyone else was as honorable as he was even though he KNEW they were not. He lost his chance to save the kingdom from the Lannisters, the war of five kings, and his family because he refused to deal with the way the world IS, rather than the way he WANTED it to be. Ned could have taken Renly's offer to put enough men under his command to take control of the Lannisters in King's Landing. It might not have ended up with Stannis (the actual rightful king) on the throne, but it would have ended better than the Starks being slaughtered and the war of five kings being fought.

[@Shakor77]

He is naive, not a moron. He is the one who figures out that Joffrey is a bastard. A moron would not be able to do that. And your comment about honor is wrong aswell. Honorable people will get special kind of loyalty from their followers and Ned Stark's followers were just that. And there is no certainty that Ned's support for Renly would have ended well. It would have given Stannis more justification to fight Renly and Lannisters could come in and pick up the pieces from the battle between Renly and Stannis and thus leading to an all out war.

[@DracarysFyre]

+Shak he really didn't tho. JOn Arryn was pretty blunt about it and Ned still took forever. Plus EVERYONE knows. Even gutter filth before Ser Strong dashed his brains

[@crackshack2]

HANG THEM ALL XD

[@strutter0505]

+DracarysFyre and how do you think that gutter filth knows about the incest in the first place? Because ned sent a letter to stannis about the true heritage of robert's kids and told him that he is the rightful heir. And then, stannis sent ravens to every lord of the westeros about that matter. The rest is history.

[@Serryy]

"Starks will always get betrayed". Well, they ruled uncontested in the north for thousands of years.

[@MFCepicTV]

Uhh, the Kings of Winter had plenty of rivals. The Dustins aka Barrow Kings, the Reeds aka Marsh Kings, The Boltons aka Red Kings etc. It took them thousands of years to subdue them and it was only shortly before Aegon's Conquest that the Boltons finally bent the knee to the Starks.

[@denisl2760]

the times have changed, there is no more honor in westoros

[@Serryy]

Catalin Marin Yes of course they had. But after these rivals were striked down, they had no real problems.

[@BigBad-Wolf]

Yeah, shortly, like five thousand years before during the Andal Invasion.

[@zackgeorgly5099]

It's just about 300 years after Aegon's conquest, so the North has only been part of the seven kingdoms for less than three centuries and therefore been outside most of the southern influences. Maybe things have been slowly changing all that time. Furthermore, it's less than two decades from Robert's Rebellion, which also stirred a lot of things up. Starks still hadn't fully recuperated from losing the lord and heir of their house so they were in somewhat difficult position to start with.

[@WilliamCorpening]

Do you think Sansa has learned this lesson? I think her time spent with greedy, self-absorbed people like Cersei, Littlefinger (especially him) and Ramsay has taught her to play whatever role is necessary -- a psychological version of Arya. Thoughts?

[@TheSkepticalPanda]

William Corpening I think so. She's not a fighter, so she has to use her cunning to survive.

[@Shadow90Cvijetin]

She's maybe not clueless, but she's still a dumb girl who wants to be princess more than anything else. She's Cersei basically, with less psychological problems.

[@franciscomaia3299]

She takes time to learn.. But she learns.. (oh oh oh) :P

[@goddyfame3424]

Sansa is able to make moves behind the back of the people. That will be necesary to kill Cersei. While Jon focus on the Northern threat, Sansa will focus of Cersei, she has to because she know Cersei doesn't care about anyone but Cersei.

[@1daboi100]

William Corpening that's right, now the 3 surviving Starks have become the Judge (Sansa), the jury (Bran), and the executioner (Arya).

[@TsarofScars]

I mean, Ned died because he was too honorable and thought the best in everyone. Robb and Jon weren't even 20 when they were betrayed and killed, I'm 19 myself and I think I would make the exact same mistakes

[@TheInfamousWolf]

You know nothing.

[@Argos-xb8ek]

@Zen Master Says you

[@t-bone6636]

@Zen Master its a fantasy story.

[@adriaciuroaltes2270]

In the books they are 16

[@9822703]

Ned din't die due to his honor, he died giving it up for bimbo sansa. he nearly won the game and gave cercie a chance to run, unbeknown ti him Robert was already dying.

[@cedericdrachenreign7637]

With Ned's trust of Baelish you're missing an important part. Ned put his faith in Cat's trust for Baelish, not Baelish himself. It's their combined naivety that get Ned killed, not his honor alone.

[@aliakapoor]

It always irked me how impulsive was Cat to capture Tyrion, even if she did believe he pushed her son, she should have atleast tried to find good proof, a dagger isn't solid proof and her trusting little finger, the man's body language could tell you that he is pathetic and will go to any extent to serve himself.

[@TBSest1955]

The Starks are men of honor. They speak truthfully and act morally. They play a different game, a game where the only way to lose is by forsaking what one knows is right; and the only way to win is by dying without doing so.

[@amimoradi4559]

John Taylor True indeed, my exact thoughts. They're not vicious like the rest but pure and simple

[@Akkumako]

John Taylor that's why they are the best

[@rodneyabrett]

They were destined to be Martyrs. Honor above all and their enemies knew this and exploited it. They could always count on a Stark to be a Stark.

[@darrenfleming7901]

The real "good of the realm" lies in upholding it's integrity, whatever the cost.

[@GarrettGSF]

The whole thing with Rob and the "problems" of honour becomes even more apparent in the books: In the books, Rob takes a castle of a lesser house allied to the Lannisters. When he receives the message of his brothers being killed, the young Lady comforts him and they sleep together despite Rob's commitment to the Freys. He marries that woman because of his sense primarily because of his sense of honour, those triggering the Red Wedding. In the show they changed it somewhat for some reason.

[@aoli8142]

BREAKING A PROMISE IS NOT HONOURABLE Frankly I don't like Robb's actions on that even if he did try to make up for it.

[@MarcusLeonard307]

I would say of all the Starks, Jon is the biggest moron. The only reason he's still alive is because of the story.

[@bjornk9638]

He shouldn't have been resurrected.

[@willcruikshank7972]

Jon in the books is much, much more pragmatic, doesn't have a problem being ruthless, and is definitely not an honorable fool like Ned/Robb. He is only killed in the books because he was looking too far forward in attempts to combat the Others and didn't see the pathetic discontent of some Night's Watch members. Out of all the Starks in the books, Jon displays the most cunning and potential.

[@willcruikshank7972]

John Smith what? Jon will be back in his normal body otherwise Martin butchered his character and left it very unfulfilled for him to stay in a direwolf. I think it’s possible his consciousness stays in Ghost until his body is resurrected.

[@localman9063]

What do you expect from someone who knows nothing...

[@nguyenvuminhkhoi8179]

George said that in the story, people must endure suffer to have magical power, so i think jon can do that, sort of. He can be like werewolf of somthing =))

[@Xojzk12]

It goes even father than this. Ned's father was called to Kings landing and betrayed. His son Brandon was called for trial by combat and betrayed. Being forced to fight "Fire".

[@vlandianbutter9960]

If only brandon was a regular youtube commenter, he could have survived it.

[@Klonk315]

Its the other way around neds father fought fire in the trial by combat

[@CrusaderZade]

No, that's not what happend. Brandon Stark (Ned's brother) went to King's Landing to demand Lyanna Stark (Ned's sister) back from Rhaegar Targaryen, King Aerys Targaryen took this as a threat so he imprisoned Brandon. Rickard Stark (Ned's dad) rushed to King's Landing to get his eldest son back, when he got there he challenged Aerys to a trial by combat so that if he won then Aerys would set Brandon free. Aerys accepted but his champion was fire, so he had Rickard hung from the ceiling of the Red Keep with a bonfire lit under him, then he had Brandon brought out with a strangling device tied to his neck and a sword put just out of his reach. Aerys told Brandon that if he could reach the sword and cut himself free, then he could save his father and they all could go home. So Brandon died strangling himself trying to get the sword while Rickard was roasted alive in his armor.

[@Jim-ti5ck]

+Mrbattledude Why don't we have good justice systems like that anymore?

[@BigBad-Wolf]

If only. Then he could just come to King's Landing and win the throne in 5 minutes. Then he would conquer the world and bring eternal peace.

[@tabaxi]

you should do a video about margaery tyrell and her manipulation skills

[@Maya-fc2to]

oh yes!!!

[@chiraggupta2645]

My fav character after Danerys and Jon. Seriosly 10/10 for her best player in Westeros shame she died or she should have been on the iron throne

[@shersyed3989]

@@chiraggupta2645 I don't think on the throne, I think beside it. She never wanted to appear big and powerful but rather innocent and gentle, and wanted to control the "big and powerful" from the backhand.

[@tkyk4893]

@@shersyed3989 She wanted prestige, for the most part

[@showhardoahmed2146]

There is a video

[@ashwin007bond]

Can you do a video on Tywin? He was the most authoritative character in the show.

[@moralhazard8652]

yes, that would be great

[@tortelli2249]

I asked for Tywin a few weeks ago.

[@vianeyboruel504]

nice! I hope they listen to you.

[@hittingyouoverthehead]

That's a great idea! In my opinion, he was a really righteous person. His only flaw was that he didn't realize the usefulness of Tyrion and just what he could do. If he had been nice to Tyrion and stood by his side, Tywin would have been alive.

[@mennan884]

Was my favorite character

[@marcopico7074]

Soldiers know honor and duty, Varys told Tyrion " Jon Arrin and Ned Stark were good honorable men, but they dispised the game and those who play it".

[@TheElbowofDoom]

I think your appraisal of the Starks is a bit too negative, and that you're missing the Northern Experience (TM). People in the North have to trust each other. The region is really desolately populated, and it is the only part of Westeros that has to deal with direct outside threats (Wildlings). As such, it seems reasonable to assume that the northerns just can't scheme as much - in that environment everybody *needs* to trust each other. This isn't fancypancy Highgarden or Sunspear. Just look at the way the Robb became king. He was loved. Look at his meetings with hos Lords - don't they strike you as a lot more informal than Tywins? Where would you find it easier to ask a question, or voice a dissenting opinion? There seems to be a less formality between the lords of the North, and more internal solidarity. If you're a schemer in such an environment, you'll get fucked over quickly. What such an environment does incentivice is instead adherence to common rules, justice, mutual respect (hence the Karstark dilemma) and fairness. Coming from a sparsely populated and very "naive" Scandinavian country I know what I'm talking about. ;) P.S. (The Boltons are fucked up, and really don't seem to conform to what I wrote above. The Northerners themselves have historically seen this). P.P.S. Which kind of leadership do you think is most likely to survive Winter? Littlefinger (with absolutely no proper powerbase of his own) or the Starks?

[@Rollacosta27]

Yeah, you can tell by what happened recently to Little Finger. He thought he was in his element, but that's where mistakes happen.

[@gretel654]

Yeah, it wasn't the Starks' fault that they got continuously betrayed; in the North, scheming and lying won't work. That's why the Stark men probably weren't able to adapt to how treacherous people can be.

[@newperve]

Scheming and lying still work. Nobles backstab all over Westeros not just in the South. Yes Robb's meeting was more informal than one held by Tywin Lannister, you know why? Because the other one was held by Tywin Lannister, who was not an informal guy. But formality isn't an invitation to betrayal, lots of people betray people in informal settings.

[@DanBrown96]

TheElbowofDoom. You're making the video's point though. The Starks code of honour only works in Winterfell amongst others who share that code. Yet it's Ned's honour that took him south amongst the vipers of Kings Landing and ultimately his death and the death of half his family. In the end, his honour was still his downfall.

[@deezee9629]

Michael Price Historically speaking scheming and ambition in the North has lead to ruin for the schemers due to the cohesion the entire nation has under their sovereign due to the enviroment. Case in point, the Greystarks and Karstarks. Both of these cadet branches have betrayed their country as a whole with the conception that they would force their own ends at the detriment of the nation as a whole. The Greystarks are extinct and the Karstarks are at the brink.

[@Cissablack708]

This is exactly why Edward stark and Jon Snow do not want to be leaders. They don't want that power but it is thrust upon them with not much choice.

[@Cissablack708]

Estranged yea I know, auto correct is a bitch.

[@andrewwavington9025]

Johnlocked the impala yeah Ned grew up believing his elder brother Brandon would be king, being the leader of the North was king of thrown at him similar to Tomen

[@Sneakyturtle18]

@@andrewwavington9025 Well not a king but the lord and warden of the North

[@awaywiththefaeries9464]

In Jon's case he could have chosen to refuse, though.

[@originalhgc]

In the case of John Snow's lack of communication on the return from Hardhomme, that's just a case of bad screenwriting, wherein a character inexplicably fails to say the the most obvious thing so that the plot can be served by miscommunication.

[@jac1111]

This is also a flaw of all of the noble families in GoT - they all underestimate Little Finger because of their culture. Little Finger is from a lowly, recently landed noble family. He’s like a servant to them.

[@Lucy-ng7cw]

The problem with Jon and robb is that they are based off 14-16 year olds. In the books their actions make sense coming from immature teenagers. But in the show they are grown men with the actors almost 10 years older. It makes them seem like morons. So instead of seeming like intelligent for their age they seem stupid and short sited

[@VeganCossack]

Yeah. that clarifies quite something...

[@sapereaude1483]

The only morons are the people who betray them. All Starks allways do the most correct thing and this video has no sense.

[@Lucy-ng7cw]

To put this in perspective in the books they were the same age at the start as the actor who played Rickon. Imagine how different Robb would have been viewed by the fandom if thats what he looked like.

[@sapereaude1483]

MultiAREE: Of course take power from your enemies is not wrong, I do not know what are you smoking but I recommed you to stop.

[@sapereaude1483]

of course not because in that show there are too many morons killing the people who does the correct thing.

[@bridgethammond7]

It's not that the Starks are stupid. Look at Arya and Sansa. They are both Starks and they are smart as hell has of season 6. But they live in the North. They have different codes, honors, and a way of life far different from the south and it's politics. Being honorable was their mistake. But that's it's. Ned telling Cersie wasn't a good idea. But, Ned would not have anymore children's blood on his hands like he felt he had During the sack of Kings Landing. Also, Ned did not want to trust littlefinger. It was Cat whom talked him into it. Just like she told Robb Walder Fray would never harm her. No one was dumber then Cat and she wasn't a born Stark. At the end of the day, being Smart won't always keep you from getting killed in Game of Thrones. Tywin was smart, yet he was murdered on his toilet. In a Song of Ice and Fire you will die either being a villain or a hero. But what matters is the legacy you leave behind. Ned, will always be remembered as honorable. While characters like Cersie will be remembered as evil monsters who people will be glad they are dead.

[@newperve]

Sansa is dumb as her mother and just as a manipulative. Arya is smart but even she is too direct at the start. "But, Ned would not have anymore children's blood on his hands like he felt he had During the sack of Kings Landing. " Yeah that worked out well, how many children are dead because of him. " Tywin was smart, yet he was murdered on his toilet. " Yes because he made the stupid mistake of underestimating Tyrion, who if anything is SMARTER than him, and siding with the stupidest of his relatives.

[@l.tc.5032]

Hell even if he had told her he could have used it as an advantage by blackmailing her into keeping his mouth shut.

[@yingyang2838]

Maybe it's just the Stark men then? 😂

[@yingyang2838]

Michael Price lmao after this season you're still going to go with Arya being smarter than Sansa? Arya's only talent is killing. Sansa has learnt so much and had some of the best character development. Sansa haters are so dense 😂🙄

[@Yuval012]

red stark no, Cat was the stupidest Stark. Sansa was stupid as fuck most of the show, and the only reason she "caught" Littlefinger and didn't let him manipulate him it's because of Bran, who can see everything, he saw his betreyal of Ned Stark and the other things.

[@Abylaikhan90]

You should do a video about Olenna Tyrell. A perfect example of reactive leadership.

[@tywinlannister-videoeditor5057]

One single character whos skills could possibly match Tywin's is Olenna Tyrell. And she has a killer-instinct like he did.

[@cecejk]

So the Starks get killed for being honorable, merciful and caring, while the rest die for being greedy, untrustworthy and deceitful. Guess in GoT you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[@arraikcruor6407]

No. The Starks have been in power of the North for over a 1000 years. The problem is when they were dealing with the south they didn't adapt their understanding of southern people.

[@thabisoshale9168]

That's life. There is not set of rules. Anything can take you up or down. Game of thrones shows the importance of decision making, especially taking into consideration different dynamics. One terrible decision and it's your head. Basically that was the problem with season 7 & 8. A lot of characters(particularly the Starks) made terrible decisions with little or no consequences.

[@blayzestarlight1886]

@@arraikcruor6407 8,000 years actually

[@mayasl1339]

No, it seems you have missed the point. Their flaw is not being honorable, merciful and caring. Their flaw is assuming that others are honorable, loyal, merciful and/or caring, as they are, and not paying attention to other people histories, preferences, and tendencies of behaviour. You can be loyal knowing that other people are not and behave according to that information.

[@saxongedriht1086]

You can say all you want about Ned, but he is a man of honor. That's all that matters to me.

[@newperve]

His honor demanded that he protect his family, he failed. He failed because he gave up on understanding people. When you decide to give up on your duty you have no honor.

[@newperve]

"The only reason why he failed was because he didn't know how evil Joffery or Cersi was." He got directly told "You win or you die" and then he just let Cersei do whatever she wanted before he made his move. That's not bout being evil that's about being SANE. When someone tells you he's going to arrest you for treason and declare your children products of treason you do what you can to put that guy in the ground. As soon as news gets out that the kids aren't Robert's they're dead. You know how he feels about potential threats to his rule.

[@newperve]

Oh and it was pretty clear how evil Joffery was to anyone paying attention. Which was something a smart guy would do. Even before he came North there was plenty of evidence he was was a pyscho. But Ned didn't bother having even the rudiments of an intelligence organization in the South.

[@adonis1168]

There is a thin line between honour and idiocy

[@Fletch55]

"Honor may save your personal endevours, but it will not save your countrymen."

[@TheStarcraftJACKAL]

Partially in old Ned's defense, I think he's been duped just like us viewers/readers from the start. First: the setting of the Small Council meeting, when the players were introduced - Ned immediately took dislike to Varys because he was eunuch, hated the way he smelled, how he "prayed for the Prince's swift recovery". Second: Littlefinger, while already having an established antipathy with the Stark men, seemed to contribute quite a lot to Ned's investigation of Jon Arryn's death and search for King _Bob's_ bastards. Third: Ned assumed that Littlefinger would honor his end of the bargain because of the "mutual trust" between them and Catelyn. I admit: when I first watched the show, all wide-eyed, I even urged Ned to go along with Littlefinger's plan. However, none can argue that Ned confronting Cersei and giving her time to react was the absolute stupidest thing he could've done, just as much as Rob trusting Walder Frey. Jon, on the other hand, has made effort to convince his Night's Watch brothers to accommodate the wildlings, and for many times he has proven himself to the Watch. He did not expect for all the things he's done, they would have trusted him more, but alas. Naive, yes - stupid, no.

[@riyazuo]

Me too, and also reading the books, at first I believed Littlefinger was on the Stark's side.

[@tomasoshuilleabhain9268]

The thing is most of the men who stabbed Jon wouldn't have listened to logic

[@PhyreI3ird]

If logic wouldn't work, logical application of fear might've then xP

[@properduction2586]

@@PhyreI3ird What about Olly ? What did Jon do for him ?

[@ZinfinityX]

That is something of a red herring. The point being addressed is that the Northerners are really invested in their own sense of justice. James 2:16, should a fat leader have an army of lean men, would it suit him to demand of them to offer up their scratch so that he remains well? Logic wasn't what the watchmen prized obviously, but it is also should be obvious to anyone the necessity to bear reason. Jon didn't even provide his men with reason to remain united on their own accord, considering that everything that they stood for up until this was shattered the moment a wildling walked through their gates. Imagine the impending threat to their livelihood from the other side of the wall once rumors spread that this known threat was even closer to their lands. It's a situation of Hell both above and below. Though maybe not a politician, as a leader Jon needed to give his men a cause to rally around. At a moment's notice any social contract can become misaligned and it's their hides on the line, not so much their sense of honor or duty. Alas, it would seem that the further north he went from home, the less aware he became about the leaders that ruled there. Hence the running gag "You know nothing"

[@inr9751]

Analog Signal Alright, but wasn’t it Thorne who let the wildlings pass through the gate? Everyone seem to forget that, for some reason.

[@ZinfinityX]

@@inr9751 You make a good point but there was that side convo with Janos about Jon's popularity. My guess is that he still had that aggrivating him in the back of his mind- like off all things Jon Know Nothing Snow is going to be my undoing?

[@berserker2.0]

"Ah the Starks quick tempers slow minds" -Littlefinger.

[@DoubleO88]

I think Jon not telling the Nights Watch about the White Walkers is just poor writing on D&D's part rather than Jon's character flaw. Something very different happens in the book that causes Jon's death.

[@hollawar1391]

DoubleO88 what happens?

[@buckbuck8319]

He took the wrong persons chocolate pudding cup.

[@Itoldyouso15]

buck buck best comment hahahah

[@jedimasters1462]

Jon could have told the same story a thousand times and it wouldn't have helped. People like Throne wouldn't believe it until they saw it themselves. Nor would Throne believe it because it was coming from Jon. Jon should have just taken Throne to Hardhome to see it, but then Jon needed to die to get out of the Night's Watch and fulfill his destiny and possibly take the throne. 🤔

[@gromm93]

Nope. It's *definitely* Jon's character flaw. Otherwise, why would other, more competent leaders be written so well? Same writers, different characters.

[@sharperguy]

So the question is: why do we like and route for the starks so much?

[@EffiongUmoetok]

They are honorable

[@TheYvesL]

*root* not *route* hehe; Because they're both good hearted and have been harmed by other dishonest people. We just wanna see the good guys win and injustices made right, pretty simple.

[@IMatchoNation]

Because they have clear and rigid principles and simple loyalties; they're what a lot of us think we should aspire to be. Instead this show is hellbent on showing why flexibility, moral grays and deceit can accomplish things simple honesty cannot.

[@Nuurix]

honor

[@michaelr.7547]

Because the first seasons established them as the main characters. The very first scenes were them playing together at Winterfell. Since that was the first characters we became attached to, our bond to them is strongest.

[@GhostNameless]

Why the starks will always get betrayed? George R. R. Martin.

[@akapam57]

thanks you! that is all. lol

[@eatass1332]

cuz they cant keep pets

[@SangNguyen-ql3qm]

+RandomFox With sunglasses yeah. G RR Martin say:" No dogs allowed in this game" . The starks didnt listen.

[@eatass1332]

Sang Nguyen XD bad starks

[@LiVeLiKeURdying2]

Throw them a bone, will ya? ;)

[@jakebutler9808]

"To defeat an enemy you must know them, not simply their battle tactics but their history their culture their art." Grand admiral thrawn

[@scottyg400]

Jons problem is that HE KNOWS NOTHING!!! lol

[@primeone8913]

Jon survived death

[@RhenAye]

He did not "survived" death. He was resurrected lol there's a big difference.

[@steelbear2063]

No difference for those whose asses got handed to them by Jon

[@HsienKoMeiLingFormerYANG]

Are you saying son of seven god know nothing?

[@by.blesssing]

Дмитрий Попов b

[@JohnBainbridge0]

You're right. Especially about Jon. Episode 7 of Season 6 is a perfect example. When he's trying to build his army, what does he say? "Stark... Duty... Winterfell...Honour..." That's all what he wants and nobody cares, but he has the biggest trump card in the game and he's not using it. All Jon needs here are a few words: "Winter is here. The dead walk again. You can join us, or you will join them." And Jon is also clearly a moron. Davos mentions the dead and - BAM! - instant ally, but Jon apparently didn't notice that, because he never tried that approach himself. Jon Snow really does know nothing.

[@HxH2011DRA]

Exactly! Davos literally showed him how to do it and he STILL doesn't use that card

[@weed3728]

SPOILER.... Jon is an idiot in the battle of the bastards Sansa told Jon not to fall for Ramsey's trap & what does Jon do ? falls for Ramsey's trap... Sansa even told him that they weren't never going to get Rickon back alive because he was the greatest threat to his claim on winterfell so jon falls for this trap thousands of men died even the last giant fucking died because Jon Is not playing the game good Shit Jon almost got trampled to death at this point Sansa is adapting little fingers ways I think she fails to rememeber that Petyr betrayed her Father I love the Starks but if there going to make a comeback they have to play the game better

[@Gloriankithsanus]

So, if I join him, I'll die for someone who isn't even a stark, who is fighting for a woman, to get a castle I didn't give a shit about for years already probably. ANd afterwards I still become a whitewalker, cuz Jon's army's too weak. In that case I'd bet my money on ramsay. I actually know that he won a siege before and his "dad" was killed by poison from his enemys. Besides that, he got the larger army. So I might just as well join HIM, he's going to win even harder afterwards. So, cleary that isn't the trump card you're thinking it'd be. It's a good and valid point, but there's still too much disadvantage on Jon's side to actually join him. In my opinion, it was rather clever going for the "justice, honour, Winterfell, Duty" arguments, because that is the only logical thing he can demand of those people. THere's no reason to join him at this war at all, but those. And if you think about the Bear-Island allegiance, her final words were somethin like "We fought for the starks and were loyal to them for thousands of years... And we won't break loyality today." There wasn't even a single word about the dead. It cleary had it's impact, won't fight that, but in the end she decided to join them because of their "ancient" relations, not because she's threatened by thinking about the white walkers.

[@brandonreed09]

+Gloriankithsanus Then you would be dead right now. You played the game and lost.

[@BigBad-Wolf]

And who would believe him anyway? Lyanna Mormont is a child of ten and Lord Commander before Jon was her uncle.

[@4tech404]

If I were Robb I would let the Karstarks cut Jaime's hand and send it to Cersei : "A hand from your lover for my father death, the hand of the King. If you lay a finger on my sisters, you will get more boxes with more of ser Jaime. " That would have solved the problem with the Karstarks who would have the satisfaction of removing the only thing that Jaime is pround of : his great skill in sword fight. At least it would have made it way more difficult for the Boltons to rebel.

[@GP.Records]

true, because if they revolt they provoke more Jaime dismemberment - something Tywin cannot afford

[@YardenAkin]

There is a solid chance that the Karstarks won't be satisfied, also Lady Catelyn wouldn't stand for it. Besides, such dismemberment guess against the Stark moral code

[@ilovenycrp]

Really?but then the Lannisters would've retaliated by sending bits and pieces of both arya and sansa.Even though Arya had gotten away the Starks firmly believed that they got both Stark girls.That's pretty much the reason why Catelyn was eager for an exchange cause she knew they've got more to lose.I don't really think this would fixed anything other than giving the Karstark the satisfaction of dismembering Jaime.They'd probably end up killing each other's prisoners rather than reaching a compromise.

[@4tech404]

+Jeremy Alison Sansa and Arya are seen with little to none importance while Jaime was the only male child of Tywin who can rule Westerlands (Tyrion would never be the hier in the eyes of Tywin). We know he would have done about anything to keep him alive and he wanted him to rule after his death. Tyrion would never let Cersei do anything bad to Sansa, (Arya was not prisoner so she was safe) because if they dared to do it, Jaime could be killed or worse and that is the last thing Lannisters wanted. Sure, they would hurt Sansa , but seen what they did to her, I guess they did it anyway. Not to mention that even if Joffrey goes insane and kills Sansa, they would be doomed because then they would make Starks figure out they dont have Arya so no more leverage.

[@4tech404]

Yarden Akin No, it would not satisfy them but it would made them more calm. I think the Kastarks would love to see Jaime suffer more than to be killed in an instance. And yeah , Cat is a big problem and she fucked up politicaly and as a mother. That was Robb mistake by not sending her home .

[@Lite727]

Nope not with Sansa around. She’s learned the most

[@LittleHenry90]

@Notorious1503 Arya learned and transformed the most from all the starks. From innocent little girl to dangerous Assassin. No one can deny that 😁

[@urdaddy8801]

@Notorious1503Lmao are we watching the same show

[@urdaddy8801]

@@LittleHenry90 nah, arya has always had it in her. Shes always been headstrong. I mean look at the first ep where she held the sword over joffrey. Shes obviously developed skills in fighting but i think its obvious that sansa has had the most character development.

[@himaniaroraaa]

@Ram-C she became smart after the things that happened to her. How can somebody be this shallow?

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Arya learned the most. She survived because she was fresh from the lessons of Syrio Forel. He taught her the two most important lessons. To see the things as they are, not as you expect, or hope, them to be, and to adapt to the situation (that's MUCH more evident in the books). Not by chance she's the only Stark that survives thanks to her own strenght (Sansa survives only because she's valuable).

[@codebreakerowns]

Bro, a great breakdown on charisma would be Harvey Spector from Suits.

[@dddoogg1]

I second that!

[@lockettcallum]

Defiantly

[@idcaf]

Hell yeah

[@xXxBurnerable]

omg please

[@eduardofreudenthal824]

you go up up and away

[@IanAlvarezXD]

This was super creative and expository! Outstanding job. Subscribed!

[@Charismaoncommand]

Glad to have you!

[@startrek1992]

Eddard tried to be good person in a bad world. I'll respect him til the end.

[@newperve]

A truly good person would face the facts and do what he can. Ned just trusted to luck. He's like a man who won't go down into the bilges to save a sinking ship because it's dirty. So he sank.

[@TheHipClip]

Justice and Integrity are nothing without the power to back them up.

[@HxH2011DRA]

Truer words

[@cerii5943]

The best thing i have heard for a long time.

[@dunnowy123]

Too many people think in terms of moral codes and vague notions of right and wrong, without realizing none of it matters without power.

[@ManBearPiglet]

Still, the flame of virtue must be kept alive in all people. Power without virtue just leads to evil and corruption.

[@Kinos141]

You speak truth, baby.

[@jessicahart7126]

For Rob’s part did you seriously neglect to mention that he was overruled by his passionate love affair with Telisa, losing the confidence and respect of his allies when he needed it? That was probably the biggest mistake he made. That’s why John prevailed where Rob failed - in sacrificing love for duty - John was a truly selfless leader.

[@anaveragechannel468]

You should do a littlefinger analisis!

[@anaveragechannel468]

Tell me what you think

[@slutbunwallah]

This! I love the character!

[@theundergradanalysis]

littlefinger is a psychopath

[@jrt31169]

something just made me happy about reading anal-isis.

[@anaveragechannel468]

the moment that he pushed lysa he became my favorite character, he is just awesome!

[@dariusd2003]

The starks don't know how to get people to do what they want is due to their high born status. They've been insulated from how the real world works. They're used to getting their way on authority and status alone. You can contrast that with Tyrion who has to negotiate and appease people due to his dwarf status even though he's from the wealthiest house. Great analysis and I hope Arya or Sansa become better at the game.

[@HxH2011DRA]

You bring up a great point and this probably why arya has been doing a little better. She never much valued her highborn status so while she's not doing "fantastic" she has generally been the best off of everyone from the stark home

[@Petey0707]

The game is going to be destroyed.

[@HxH2011DRA]

eluxsus0195684 By Danny and her dragons fuck yeah! #hype

[@theoutsider8745]

And now thanks to Season 8 we can now see Starks betraying Starks. How meta!

[@juliacastro817]

That, literally, never happened.

[@theoutsider8745]

@@juliacastro817 Sansa told Tyrion about Jon's true heritage when he asked her not to. Breaking a promise is pretty much a betrayal of trust, no?

[@omarkansoh3808]

@@theoutsider8745 that's not really betraying him cuz she did it so that tyrion would help Jon get the throne, she did it for him not to betray him. So really she just did what she thought was right and she was right about it Jon would've been a better ruler than Danny.

[@janellejulianajoy]

@@theoutsider8745 Lol. And Jon gave up his people (so much as a survey to ask the people who gave him the title in the first place) without so much as a survey. This is a lesson learned. When your people vehemently tell you they don't want another foreigner to rule them, perhaps you should listen.

[@TrackerNeil]

I'm going to respectfully disagree regarding Rickard Karstark. It would have been irresponsible for Robb to promise that Jaime would be tried or executed at the war's end, because he might need Jaime as part of a deal to end that war. Karstark lost two sons to the Kingslayer, but lots of men lost sons, and brothers, and friends, and more. Do they get to place demands on the King in the North? No, a grieving father's thirst for revenge does not trump all other considerations, and Robb was wise enough to know this. Robb made many mistakes--accepting the kingship foremost among them--but denying Lord Rickard was not one of them.

[@VicinalKvothe]

There's some truth to this video! That being said, it feels like you're saying that living and succeeding is all that matters. The Stark's greatest "flaw" is that they are too trusting, but is that truly a flaw? Herein lies the problem, there are good principles that the Stark family have upheld, and it's why fans love and respect them. And one might say that instead of being "inconsiderate of what others want", maybe they were simply keeping to themselves out of respect for others... Either way, I'd rather be dead with my honor intact than alive with no heart or conscience.

[@Shun101010]

A man would like a charisma breakdown of Jon Taffer from Bar Rescue. Specifically, how he can be a total jerk to people at first but gain their respect afterwards (before finishing his job).

[@Truely2Legit]

Might as well do a breakdown on the original -- Gordon Ramsey

[@DJFlemmyFlem]

That show is scripted.

[@DJFlemmyFlem]

Cody James Crain It's a nice show for what it is though. I don't like the drama, I watch pro wrestling for that.

[@oliviamacarthur18]

Can you do a littlefinger video? He is an extremely clever and tactical character

[@mikejia1]

He's not very charismatic though, nobody in the series actually likes him.

[@SneakCritical]

+Mike Jia That is his chief weakness.

[@SkyKing8707]

he's almost like walder frey. he chooses the winning side in the middle of a chaos. the difference is that he creates the chaos

[@Flashbreat]

Lol my friends and me love him

[@stranieb]

omg yes this pleease, Littlefinger is my other favorite characters

[@KTChamberlain]

Ygritte: "You say nothing, Jon Snow."

[@hahah351]

Hahha

[@fabi3790]

Now at the end it was "You do/did nothing, Jon snow"

[@tommmy1986]

This is one of wisest videos on KZbin. Amazing stuff here guys, this ought to be compulsory showing in primary schools and high schools all around the world.

[@Charismaoncommand]

Grateful for that!

[@TheCsel]

I agree, the Starks exemplify honor and decency, and assume that others will be honorable and decent too. This assumption is their undoing many times. However, despite leaving themselves open to betrayal they also win fanatic loyalty by many others as well. While one or two Starks may die from betrayal, betraying them will earn you a blood feud from every clan and house in the North. There is a reason the Starks have endured this long after all.

[@goddyfame3424]

In a game of thrones, you show people your hand and let them show you theirs. Who ever wins is the winner. Jon is honorable and true to his words but Sansa and Arya and Bran the Seer are there to cover the basis. If they could take care of the great littlefinger, Cersei will be as easy as ABC.

[@lxrsen.mp482]

TheCsel p

[@frankmiller721]

Jon did tell what he saw at Hardhome. "He raised his hands, and they all stood up at once".

[@pranakhan]

Plenty of wisdom in here. I would say Sansa may prove to be the exception here; one of the only Starks who not only has survived from their mistakes to learn from them, but also has discerned the valuable skills of some of the best (and worst) people around her. Really valuable video here, as always. Thanks

[@9822703]

nope

[@himaniaroraaa]

Arya and Bran are smart too!

[@xdofgaleness]

This is why Sansa will be the only Stark to win, she knows how to play the game

[@Scorpion-wv1hs]

sansa has more of her mum's tully side than stark

[@theinternetvigilante5716]

erm bran stark m8

[@thevigilant6884]

That's true, Sansa is the only stark who knows how to play the game. But Jon snow plays it better, he will win the game of thrones. You are still correct cause Jon is no stark he's Targaryen

[@juiceboxxxxxxxx]

+Adrenaline Rush I'd like to know, I haven't read all the books yet, but I don't mind spoilers in the slightest.

[@xdofgaleness]

ThePeaceMaker 54245 Think about ep 9 though, Jon fell right into Ramseys battle trap following the death of Rickon allowing them to be enclosed in the circle and causing many deaths. Sansa warned not to do this and he shrugged her advice off as 'obvious' at the time. It was only her ability to reach out to littlefinger that won the battle (admittedly she should have told Jon of this) but it shows he's a true Stark rushing to his death solo to avenge Rickon whereas Sansa accepted her brothers death and planned ahead - playing the game.

[@stephanielim5544]

In short, if it is in HP, it is why in every Hufflepuffs there should really be a slytherin ally, you give us your loyalty, and we'll make sure no one will touch a smidgen of your hair.

[@zcrib3]

Main issue is this idea of honor. Keeps getting Starks killed. Arya is pretty much only one who went "FUCK this" on it. Lannisters have known from the start that it is BS but have stopped displaying care for honor for appearances sake. Making them from the get go look Machiavellian which lets their opponents to get their guards up. Targaryen just relies on its vodoo magic.

[@Fluxquark]

Yep, it's a shame Arya is so dumb.

[@Rensune]

Davos didn't discard Honor: Barristan, Grey Worm, the show is full of people who haven't died because of being Honorable. Ned and Robb died from Not being Prudent.

[@patrickgallegos1705]

There are a diverse set of interpretations regarding what it means to have honor. Some interpretations can have a more rational approach than others. Compassion, empathy, and striving for the happiness of one's people is the Stark code of honor. This sense of morality has nothing to do with their political skills. Tyrion, for example, has moral virtues analogous with the Starks yet maintains his highly developed talents as a politician. The Machiavellian approach is brutal and effective, but ultimately unnecessary.

[@Iason29]

Honour got them killed because they lived by chivalric rules which seem to be non existent in the current seasons as it died with them. This I personally find as one of the weirdest flaws of George RR Martin's world of Game of Thrones. Don't forget this is an imaginary world created by him and you shouldn't relate it to our own because it's completely made up and "inspired" by our own middle ages. Chivalry and honour in real life had immense importance in our history. Why you might ask. Because no matter how big one thinks about himself, bottom line is we are all the same human beings. We all have hands, have legs, and have muscle. And all men could wield a sword and take life. It is how it is done that makes who you are in the end, differentiates you from others who can do the same things, and defines your name and your story. Your legacy is determined by opinions of others. Honour was set aside in the previous century the moment military technology sky rocketed, states became immensely large wielding a great deal of centralized power and resources and the technology became available to change opinons of millions en masse for the first time, such as the radio and the airplane (used to quickly transfer someone all over the country delivering speaches). This gave the pre-mature idea to some tyrants that they can forge their own legacy by killing anyone who judged them, even if it were millions of people, as for the first time in history numbers didn't matter anymore because there was the technology to deal with it. For example why did Hitler and his buddies commit suicide in the last minute, instead of coming out to the world defending what was their own reality and genuinely believed it was right? Yet they expected some sort of "punishment". Was it perhaps that they failed to kill the world that would judge them maybe?That just shows that Honour always matters in the end regardless.

[@ShawnVerzilli]

Tywin was a strategic genius. Honor is a pleasantry of peaceful times. The Starks do not understand this. Tywin did. "When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you." -Tywin Lannister

[@agreencat3484]

Yeah Robb was so predictable that he fooled Tywin Lannister.

[@ForteExpresso]

He was good strategist but here they are talking about how your own people can betray you when you don't try to understand them

[@Colddirector]

Military strategy is a different ball game than political strategy.

[@toomanyaccounts]

even though Robb won every battle the losses of soldiers would mean he would have no army while the Lannisters would still have enough men to win the war. it does no good to win a battle when it will make you lose the war.

[@Usoda_]

A bit late but didn't Tywin fool himself by underestimating Rob?

[@Mansare94]

@@Usoda_ Yes but he recovered the war by winning a political war against Rob, Getting the Boltons and the Freys on his side.

[@laithsaleem9247]

we demand a Tywin Lanster break down

[@warrenebuffett63]

If you don't make a twin lannister breakdown you would disappoint a lot of loyal fans and might lose subscribers but if you do make a video about one of the most popular characters which a lot of people love your views will sky rocket you will win new subscribers and make your current ones happy so what is it going to be hell for your channel or heaven

[@Kinos141]

I see what you did there. lol.

[@brad9180]

This guy learns fast!

[@logansetna316]

2 hour long video incoming

[@AnimatedLessons]

Jon is able to convince his enemies to be on his side. He's done it with the wildlings, more specifically Tormund, a man he betrayed. Alliser, is just one of those enemies who would never listen to any reason. Even Stannis, a man so rigid with duty and honour, knew it was useful to have the wildling's get past the wall. He even gave Jon his ships to make this process possible.

[@Rouge31]

I bet Sansa will be the one who get the throne at the end. She's become one of the smartest (meaning most experienced) character of the show. After everything she's been through she knows how vile her ennemies can be. And she totally deserve it. Although she's not my fav character, it's just observation.

[@venacava1588]

Excellent observation XD

[@gulagulasusu]

Close

[@denisejohnson4037]

1:39 He "used" to be in love with Catelynn? Id say that ship was still sailing strong

[@Ty-bh1yo]

I think Littlefinger purposely waited until almost all the stark men were slaughtered, this way the majority of the troops at Winterfell are Knights of the Vale. This would give him more power in the north especially once he tries to hook up with Sansa. Peter knows how to play the game all too well.

[@ashton1860]

clever thought. that's a pretty ballsy gambit on littlefinger's part, though.

[@ngoctuinh1342]

But it hinges on his tie with Robin Arryn, because the Vale lords like Bronze Yohn Royce don't like him. Now if Sansa's tie to Robin Arryn is stronger, or if Sansa exposes LF to Yohn then Little Finger will have quite a fire to put out.

[@DethPenguin]

I think Sansa did, too. The less men following Jon the easier it is for her to claim the North for herself, rather than have Jon declared Lord of Winterfell or King in the North.

[@ashton1860]

Huh. I don't know if Sansa is that cutthroat. Plus I'm pretty sure Jon supports Sansa's claim as Queen in the North.

[@huntersw2]

Of course she does. But after being played for so long she does not fully trust john. Thus, not telling him weakening their position. And little things like that makes the show watered down. He did nothing but help her.

[@Joe.2599]

Rickon was betrayed by the Umbers aswell lol

[@niklasstahl98]

Well...he was a little child when given to them, he had no other choice than to trust them.

[@Joe.2599]

+Niklas Stahl yeah, kinda annoying as they hammer in the whole "the north remembers" thing, then has the Stark loyalists betray the Starks

[@redxsage]

+Joseph Haynes -- Well, the North Remembers that those frickin' BOLTONS are frellin' _INSANE_ too... If I remember correctly, it was Ned's Father that forced those fools to STOP actually flaying people that they captured. Part of the reason why most of the North was behind the Starks, all the way. Knowing they could trust them to keep those damned BOLTONS in line helped a whole bunch.

[@SyRyanYang]

Probably the houses collectively had an amnesia; poisoned by their enemies, needless to say.

[@ghostjager8190]

+Joseph Haynes Its a TV show twist, i mean look how even more unloyal to the books since GRR martin left the show

[@LucianC137]

''I am not a Stark'' - Jon Snow

[@MaXiTisMc]

Even fooler than a stark 😂

[@hahah351]

@@MaXiTisMc haha

[@ivanhunter6492]

Not born a stark, still gets betrayed

[@MaXiTisMc]

Ivan Hunter he’s still a stark by mother 😂

[@ForteExpresso]

Becoz He knows nothing Wants to know nothing Does not wish to explain

[@Bersilus]

Honour. That's what makes me respect Ned. And also why our current society is in the gutters. People don't have honour

[@idclolidk]

Why the Starks will always get betrayed: Because that's how George Martin wrote the story.

[@franciscomaia3299]

This are the motives, not the script..

[@NYCHeavyHitz212]

And there's a reason the story was written that way and why the characters are compelling.

[@goddyfame3424]

Starks will always get betrayed but the one who betrays will get his hed cut off. Honor and Loyalty is better than Scheming, deceit, and other Cersie Littlefinger attributes.

[@m.m.1301]

In Asoiaf the characters do not bring the story forward, they behave like puppets in the hands of grrm, doing stupid things that they would logically never do only because the story needs to go that way. That's why this serie is so unsatisfying, the protagonists are passive empty shells carried around by some vague plot and never have meaningful moral choices

[@ryanhartigan8758]

idclolidk That’s how I think of my English literature exams. Because that’s how the author wrote the book

[@paragon1782]

It really speaks to the quality of the writing that all of these dynamic lessons can be drawn from a made up story. Also speaks to the quality of your critical reasoning skills, GOOD JOB! These are all intergral parts of being a leader in real life!!!! Very good work!

[@Charismaoncommand]

°Appreciate the feedback :-)

[@MisterTutor2010]

Evil will always triumph because good is dumb - Dark Helmet :)

[@freedomtruthis6498]

No good has a lot of things going for it. If you can add intelligence, then good will always win. That is what this video attempts to do.

[@hdgsjfjdk]

There is no good or evil in A song of ice and fire

[@alalmalal]

Acting good is smart for those who are evil though- dark helmet is dumb for revealing his evil

[@hdgsjfjdk]

There are no villains no characters are inherently bad or good they're people with motives if you go into George RR Martins world expecting good and evil then youre missing the whole point

[@laithsaleem9247]

good isn't dump but there is a ongoing battle between good and evil but the problem with this battle is that it is a civil war between every system as will as it is a war between systems a very complicated war but i recall some time in history when good ruled the hole Islamic country perteculary in the time of omar abd al aziz and the rashidi chilphate but this good rule has never been seen after that from my knowldge and i didnt read other civilazation history books so i dont know what happend in europe or asia good rule always ends with the death of the ruler omar got stabbed othman got killed ali was stabbed omar abd al aziz was poisoned the thing is if you want to be good you have to fight all evil and evil exist within your own system and country so you should fight yourself and that weakens you it is very complicated i cant go further i wrote to much

[@azizt4322]

Ned died because of the difference between the north and the south the nothern men are men of honor unlike the southern men who are.... Bloody back stabbing bastards and that's why the starks die when they march south (not including John)

[@fabacarini]

Aziz T the Boltons are northern

[@milestrollokopolous8842]

^ beat me to it

[@nhmooytis7058]

Aziz T Bolton was North and a backstabbing bastard.

[@user-mh9dx7nz2r]

Bolton and Karstarks.

[@moshe4011]

Not only thos 3 have a problem in the lates ep (ep9) when jhon was planing the battle to winterfell he didnt know that sansa was going to bring little fingers army she just shouted that they dont have men for it but if she would just tell him that an army is coming that could change evrything even the Gaiant could have lived if she would just tell him, he would change all of hes plan and ajust but no she didnt by telling him they could have lost alot less men PS. soory for my Bad spalling

[@brandonreed09]

Actually if you watch the episode before that again you will see that Sansa told Jon they needed to wait and get more men. She even mentioned another house that they could go get but Jon refused saying that that they didn't have time to wait. Which may have been the reason she didn't tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale. He would have dismissed it and still charged into battle. The show is making him a bit of an idiot right now. Imo they are sacrificing the male characters to elevate the women to powerful roles, but that's a whole other topic.

[@elfritoborrito]

+Brandon Reed I don't think he would have dismissed it AT ALL actually. He desperately asked her "When are we going to have more men?!" to which she stayed silent. He only rushed becuase there was no use waiting but had he known she asked for the Knights of the Vale, there's no sound he would have waited what a day when it means 10k+ more men?

[@ASElementS]

Imagine if they she did and they waited. How things would change..the outcome would remain the same but I think it would be a lot less exciting or a lot less hyped up. Pretty sure the Vale have A LOT of men. Don't think the battle would be as awesome and if they were to show us the two armies and we SAW the vale everything would change in a worse way besides obviously less men dying and the giant. That's something they had to give up. It was the correct move by HBO.

[@brandonreed09]

ElementS​​ I would have rather seen Jon Snow be as smart as his brother Rob and take Winterfell without the Vale's help at all. His plan was crap. I would have like to see a brave heart like twist. Rather we saw him get dominated and nearly pummeled to death. Then get his arse saved by Little Finger. Doesn't seem like the prince that was promised to me. Maybe his court jester playing a role. 

[@theinternetvigilante5716]

completely agree with your point about sacrificing males *spoilers for the books In the books theon is being supported for kingship in the show they forget theon and make dany help theons sister because they are both female

[@datubangkas9908]

I think it would be really great if you did a video on the positives of how Starks lead. How they inspire loyalty and respect, and not through fear and manipulation like most characters in the show.

[@dariusjackson5876]

The reason Jon needs to listen to Sansa.

[@lu4212]

Darius Jackson but he s not lol, he s gonna die again I reckon

[@klarityjoe7413]

"you know nothing Jon Snow"...summarized!

[@9822703]

how would sansa know any of this. her information would com from the lannisters, Boltons or Littlefinger. she isn't smart

[@urdaddy8801]

@@9822703 bruh stop finding half arsed excuses to continue to hate on her 💀

[@theautomator8372]

@@urdaddy8801 I mostly dislike her because she gave up on rickon so quickly. And that she constantly argued with jon for like 3 seasons. And that she told arya she wouldn't survive what she went through. Like has she even met arya? Oh and the fact she snitched on jon after promising to not reveal his true heritage in front of the godswood which is sacred ground in the north.

[@AllAhabNoMoby]

You forgot Sansa, betrayed by Littlefinger.

[@abdullahal-benali1602]

AllAhabNoMoby But she was the only Stark who learned from her family’s mistakes, and lured up Littlefinger cleverly and made him fall at the end.

[@thepenguingamer1181]

Abdullah Al-Ben Ali only in the show so far something could change in how he dies in the books

[@RoboEpic]

@@thepenguingamer1181 maybe

[@lukebashian5591]

Sansa defeating Littlefinger is the worst thing the show ever did

[@ashaadarin3934]

Luke Bashian yeah it made no sense. Sansa was not near smart enough to outsmart him. I wish they did better with her

[@acceber4535]

Well, I think Sansa now knows what people want, so she could be a good leader... I just hope she won't become that icecold as it seems now.

[@tayyeb-ulislam8477]

Wouldn't blame her tho

[@keebslol]

She literally pulled a Rob.. not telling anyone that she had more men coming risking Jons life and all their men...

[@33rd_Dunadan]

Yeah, she's a proper Bitch now) learned from the best and can now betray her own kin just as easily. So... not all Starks are morons after all eh?

[@freedomtruthis6498]

He isn't saying Starks are morons for not betraying people. He is saying they are morons for not recognizing that other people have different motives and values.

[@josephboyle1273]

But at the same time she's likely to compromise her morals and those of her family as a result turning her into what she hates. Being honest, forgiving, and truthful doesn’t make you a bad leader inherently (trustworthy, admirable, and dependable), but they need to be tempered with reason and logical thought at length. Either way true starks will always choose the moral choice over the advantageous one. And none of the starks are morons.

[@emmanueljr]

6:30, I actually support was Rob did. His commanders are supposed to do exactly as he says without question. The Art of War states that a commander shouldn't tell his generals everything about the war plan just incase...

[@ivantorres641]

but the generals should know the objective of the mission, which is to take the mountain to the east, but Edmure did not know what the objective was in the first place so he could not adapt to the situation, flexibility and adaptation is something that the more powerful armies have shared. The mountain would burn down towns under Edmure's protection and could attack supply lines which could leave him in a bad spot if he didn't act.

[@corwinstark6095]

Never in my life have I need something so much, and never known until I had watched it.

[@jacobr8063]

Great video! The book "How to Win Friends and Influence People," helped me in this area a ton. Basically, never assume altruism is the motive behind anyone's actions, and always ask, "What does this person stand to gain by the actions he/she/they are taking?"

[@Imnospy]

This analysis is so pointless. Everyone in this setting gets betrayed. Everyone.

[@ronalda6658]

An analysis? Where was the analysis? This was just filler for 11 mins. There's only one message here, which is that the Starks decided it was better to be "honorable" than reasonable. One of them carelessly went against the fucking crown without properly checking his allies, one of them never properly communicated with his commanders and decided to behead one for killing two useless hostages (especially when his mother just released the fucking Kingslayer), and one of them broke nearly every single Night's Watch vow and never explained the utilitarian purposes of bringing in the wildlings even though he saw first hand the traumatizing experiences some Northerners have had with them (like Olly, whom the internet hates because that's trendy). I thought there might be some symbolic shit I missed, turns out I was wrong.

[@snoopffy]

yeah this video is... very pointless.

[@jhauptmann9850]

And yet most of the Starks were not honorable at all. Ned lied about killing the great swordsman, he betrayed his oath to his king and went to war with him, yet expects his vastles not to do the same or he will kill them. Killed a guy who left the wall to help his family and thus breaking his oath.. Again the same thing Ned did with his king. Robbert betrays pretty much everyone around him, all the time, unending. Only the Bastard Stark really holds to honor.

[@ronalda6658]

Ned never lied about killing Arthur Dayne. He has repeatedly told everyone about how Howland Reed saved his life that day, just never said how. Bran was shocked too see the manner in which it happened. Besides, it was 7 vs 3, anyways, so anyone can logically assume Dayne was outnumbered and defeated unfairly. Robb never betrayed anyone, he's a poor judge of character. Even him marrying Talisa could've been inconsequential if he just had the patience to not behead Karstark and fucking took Casterly Rock. Then a real ransom for the North would've happened.

[@jhauptmann9850]

Bran said that Ned claimed to have killed him. Robb never betrayed anyone? Hay I will marry your daughter if you.. Ahh I am through? Fuck that bitch and here dad, I am marrying this hottie.. Ofcourse I expect my underling to take the hit and marry one because I did not. Also what happened with the Karstarks was betrayal. Not allowing him to gain vengeance for a slain family member.. You know the whole reason they are marching south, because of a slain family member.. is a betrayal. And then beheading karstark ofcourse.

[@scythos4053]

I personally believe Sansa will also be betrayed by LF and Winterfell seized by him through forced marriage.

[@ChrisJohn_444]

Hopefully, sooner rather than later - that acting is atrocious.

[@scythos4053]

Cerebral Method it's not that bad, is it? Sansa is just a pretty cringey character in the show

[@ChrisJohn_444]

+Scythos It's both - she sucks and her character sucks. Unless the actor is a seasoned vet, there's a strong correlation between the roles they choose and their own personality.

[@vlandianbutter9960]

+Scythos sansa will outright kills herself to escape the political marriage, and will be ressurected as lady stone heart the day after the vale forces left for the eyrie.

[@Truely2Legit]

Nah she's too smart. She already knows LF would do whatever it takes to get power. He killed the king and when she asked what he wanted he explicitly said "everything." I don't think he'd give him that opportunity this late into the game

[@Nvd1987]

My dad taught me how to be honorable and I try to live by similar principles and I gotta be honest, I face similar problems in every day life. It's almost crippling tbh because I just can't think outside of it.

[@johnsnow6952]

What many people fail to understand is that Ned's honor is not The North's honor. It was his surrogate father's - jon arryn. He spent most of his youth as his ward, there he learned and accepted his ways of doing things. If you go back in time you'll realize that The North is not that honroable at all, they can be pretty ruthless and cunning themselves.