How to Break a Stalemate in DIPLOMACY in 12 minutes (in a sketchy way?) / Avalon Hill / Backstabbr

[@Rakkeyal]

4:00 England: "At this point I've actually joined with England." True English fashion.

[@Indirect92]

I played this game almost 10 years ago, but never had a group to get more games started. I had no idea there was an online community for this, until I stumbled onto your videos. I’ve hit the jackpot!

[@LegendaryTactics]

It's a huge community and growing! Glad you found it and that our videos have helped with that.

[@JohnGottschalk]

Ah, I hadn't considered this as an option! Will definitely keep this in mind, and it's definitely a case of an IOU for the player that hands over the solo. In random games of course it doesn't matter much, but in a tournament setting it can make a big difference!

[@LegendaryTactics]

This play won't always be appreciated, but it's another bargaining chip you have in your pocket if everything is all bunged up and no one will budge.

[@Eldrahak]

Well, you are a mastermind for getting France to just give you the win. France is totally lame for giving the win away. I see it this way: Diplomacy is an awesome game, because it is built in such a way that you can never win without cooperating with the other players, but you can also never win without betraying your allies (either by stabbing them, or by making deals that favor you more than they favor them). It is this tension, of having to work with someone that you know will at some point work against you that makes the game so exciting and awesome. What is the thing that spoils that? Players that don't want to win. If a player is okay with being second, with deciding who they let win or with a "split victory" (which doesn't exist in Diplomacy), then that tension is taken away. You can just play with your buddy France every single game and as long as he is willing to let you win every single time, you will win every single game. And there will be nothing to it, no tension, no backstabbing, no diplomacy and also no Diplomacy. Having said that, Diplomacy is a diplomacy and talking some fool into giving you the win, yes, that's totally legitimate. So yeah, great job and congratulations on the solo and good job on you for talking France into it. Now, to the guy playing France: you're going to take that? He talked you into giving him a solo and then he went on to post it on KZbin, to brag about his victory? You think that in his mind this was a shared victory? You think that he will return the favor? Of course he won't, he's a Diplomacy player, which means he's a lying rat. He made a fool of you for the whole of the internet to see! I see what you were trying to do and maybe you thought that it would be nice to have a victory that you collaborated in... but do you think they still serve frog in Paris? Do you think they let you keep your language? Your flag? No! It's tea and haggis and mushed mash and beer with no foam everywhere now! Look what you've done! You've let your beautiful country gone to hell. To hell? Worse! To the English! You couldn't even find someone classy like the Austrians or the Turks.. it was the English you let into beautiful Paris with their boorish ways... Don't believe me? Play with this guy again and see if he will return the favor.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Ha. It's odd, but he actually talked ME into it. We had a really strong alliance for sure. I felt a little bad doing it, but it was better than letting those other two scoundrels hold us in a stalemate! One odd mechanic to the game is that some players will go all in against someone who slighted them just mildly, but allow their allies to take their centers as long as they are the ones who are in control. It's part of what makes this game so great.

[@thebookless3381]

Honestly, as long as the game was fun & everyone had their share of good time, who cares if England or someone else wins? It's a good story of how friendship can beat even the strongest of walls, by not breaking it... "The best victory, is the one with not fight at all" -Sun Tzu (The art of war)

[@thebookless3381]

@@LegendaryTactics The French were a good player, sacrifice is better than stalemate, for a KZbin video, & for the rest of the players...

[@LegendaryTactics]

@@thebookless3381 Not everyone agrees, but I certainly do! If nothing else, it was really funny at the time watching our opponents scramble to try to prevent it.

[@hawk992]

I'd rather support my ally to a solo win than play a stalemate line game over months. Calling it a 4-way draw is just a cheap way out of a complex situation. Nothing for me. I'd rather loose trying to pull an altruistic maneuver than taking the easy way out.

[@philippospratsos4198]

I thought of doing this with an ally once but I was reluctant to give away my centers lol

[@LegendaryTactics]

I still feel indebted to him, years later.

[@jamessloven2204]

I dig it, absolutely legitimate win. People throw to their allies/against their enemies every game, it is part of the metagame. Frankly, you should expect to win no more than 1 in 7 games. If you are going to have a fun playing, you need to enjoy playing a game well and winning vicariously through your allies when you can't win or draw yourself.

[@LegendaryTactics]

It did take a surprising amount of communication and good timing to pull it off without our opponents storming the gates.

[@rstray4801]

Love the channel but boy would it be great if you selected the country shading setting for your videos.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thanks. For sure. I made some of these older videos before they had that option. All the more recent vids have that on.

[@mrianburke]

Do you know what France was saying to Italy or Austria? A win is a win, but I'd feel better about it if France was also trying some kind of ultimatum stunt in a bid to break the opposing alliance.

[@LegendaryTactics]

The lines were drawn in the sand. If anyone had turned on their ally, it would have been three against that one. The opponents' alliance was as unbreakable as ours. It was either easier for someone to forget to input their moves, or try this ridiculous swap.

[@rodtheworm]

Why did this game not end as a 4-way draw?

[@LegendaryTactics]

We had it set to solo win. When we first started, we allowed 2 and 3 way wins, but now we've gone to solos only. It forces allies to turn on each other.

[@andreipatrascu1944]

@@LegendaryTactics bleah! sounds like a stupid rule. the original game allowed draws including even 4 ppl. And everyone is supposed to protect his interest. Losing w 1 center just so your mate wins feels so stupid. Stupid play forced by stupid rules. worst thing in diplomacy is people not protecting own interest and throwing game at an ally.

[@LegendaryTactics]

@@andreipatrascu1944 You're absolutely right about the intention of the game, but boy did it feel great to steal a win away from the turtlers. We'd probably still be playing that game today if we hadn't gotten creative.

[@aurielklasovsky1435]

@@LegendaryTactics i am a noob, but I do know the name of the game. It isent called "global tactics", if your diplomatic relations scored a win then it is a good win.

[@LegendaryTactics]

@@aurielklasovsky1435 Ha. Great point. Although I've had this situation arise since then, and I don't use this unless my ally offers it up and wants to try it. Otherwise, a pang of guilt sticks with me.

[@jelte3754]

Well if France is ok with it, yeah. Maybe Italy or Austria could have turned on to one another in the process but since that didn't happen this seems like a good finish

[@LegendaryTactics]

Since it was a mutual choice, I feel no shame.

[@Garathon]

How many feasible stalemates exist

[@LegendaryTactics]

Quite a few. There is a beautiful line down the center of the board. Someone going for a solo needs to own at least half the map +1 on the other side of the line. So anywhere along that line, a different stalemate scenario can happen.

[@JohnGottschalk]

There are some good articles about it, throw "diplomacy stalemate lines" into google and they'll pop up!

[@BigMackWitSauce]

If I was France I think I'd rather get a 4 way draw

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, that's not a bad option

[@SH3Bstanko6]

NATO potatoe! Awesome!

[@dustinbelle3251]

Not a valid win in my opinion. The strategic difficulty of holding your line while your partner is eaten doesn't make it anymore valid. I think that many artificial limits on the game imposed by internet or tournament constraints can ruin the game. Like here, if no one would stab, it should have been a 4 player draw.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Although, the game is founded on using words and diplomacy to get a win beyond just the tactics. Most of that is convincing other players to do what you need them to do, to get a win. I don't play for draws if I have a shot to top.