How to Catch People Cheating at Magic: The Gathering

[@jangelaclough5457]

After seeing this, I kinda want to see a "cheating" match where the goal is to win and cheat as much as possible but not get caught. In fact, they can get "cheating" counters anytime someone (a) calls them out and (b) can prove how they did it that essentially acts like poison counters.

[@claytonlevan5454]

Like a 3 strikes your out rule, you get 3 counters you lose or are penalized ie you lose a turn, you discard your hand, you sacrifice your highest strength creature etc

[@regional1000]

Like naruto chunin exam

[@scheikundeiscool4086]

Just follow a lot of competative magic online you will find such a match sooner or later.

[@kryptkravler]

There is a guy at my FLGS, who would always open his sealed packs in the restroom. He always had incredibly overpowered decks at the events, before we called him out on it.

[@CardmarketMagic]

What a weird way to cheat 🤔 even if you weren't cheating, you'd still be known as the toilet drafter

[@outputcoupler7819]

One of the regulars at my LGS has a story from his previous LGS. There was a guy who showed up at an event tried to sneak a card from his collection into his sealed pool. But English wasn't his first language, so he thought nothing of inserting the _Portuguese_ version of the card. Mixed card languages were just normal to him, I guess. Or maybe the guy made the story up. Either way, it's interesting!

[@kryptkravler]

@@outputcoupler7819 A similar thing happened with my local cheater. He accidentally snuck in a jumpstart card into a New Capenna prerelease kit.

[@nocturne3455]

We had a clique who would just blatantly go to the backroom, open packs and then trade each other so they all made great decks.

[@samuelcaldwell8160]

I love sealed players who cheat and still lose

[@jasonsmith7530]

Cheat #5: Marked cards It’s also a good idea to periodically exchange the sleeves on your sideboard cards for ones in your maindeck. Because your sideboard cards are played a lot less frequently than your maindeck cards they don’t get worn as fast. The newer looking sleeves can be considered “marked”, especially since they are on your sideboard cards.

[@CardmarketMagic]

This is a very good tip for whoever plays in competitive level tournaments ☝️

[@Rodinj10]

You should spray perfume over specific ones so you can fetch them by smell!

[@outputcoupler7819]

@@Rodinj10 I just watched that episode for the first time and laughed so hard at the perfume thing. The recent Yu-Gi-Oh crossovers have borne many unexpected fruit.

[@Rodinj10]

@@outputcoupler7819 The marked card bit only made me think of the ridiculous Yu-Gi-Oh stuff. Honestly glad someone got that reference 😁

[@mishakushnir2189]

Also, when you resleeve, shuffle your sideboard and your deck together first. It's possible that some sleeves might have factory defects, and they might be on clumps of sleeves next to each other in the box. So if your cards are all nice and organized when you resleeve, you could end up with slightly different sleeves on only lands, or only your sideboard, for example. If you shuffle everything together, any defects would be more uniform and spread out. It's unlikely, but possible

[@spc-tr]

As a judge, this is one of the best pieces of content I’ve come across in many months , even years. I’m instantly sharing with all my players and fellow judges :)

[@Xceles618]

Have you tried using the torus knot cheat?

[@TDeck1]

I have a question for the judge. If my opponent chooses to shuffle my deck rather than cut may I cut afterwards to prevent them from putting a card to the top of my deck?

[@outputcoupler7819]

Oh man, when I was playing back in college, my roommate cheated _constantly_ . I got really good at spotting cheating, because he was doing it in literally every game. More recently, I had a case where I was at a draft, and my round one opponent was a kid who didn't realize he was shuffle cheating. Did the whole "mana weaving" thing, followed by a brief pile sort. I really doubt he was cheating on purpose, that's just how lots of kids play and they think getting a perfect mix of lands and nonlands proves the deck is thoroughly mixed. The kid presents the deck to me to cut. And I pick it up, do about ten mash shuffles, then cut it and return it. The kid kept a one-lander on the draw, I assume because he's used to always drawing lands if his hand is light. He did not. He got annihilated. He does the same cheaty-shuffle in game two. I properly shuffle his deck again. And he gets mana screwed again. Honestly, I should have talked to him about mana weaving, pile shuffling, and how that's actually cheating. But I don't think the average 9 year old is going to react well to being told they're cheating by a 37 year old regular, even if the person is very clear that they're not being accused of _intentionally_ cheating.

[@ElGrandeFatso]

Yeah, exactly, you gotta know the difference between someone who means no harm and someone who does. Recently I played a few games with a few friends, including a guy I had never met before.The guy was very blatantly mana weaving in between games, as in, doing it right in front of us.He clearly didn't think of it as cheating, and you know, I can see why, most people grow up playing playground magic without actually learning the proper rules and stuff. I didnt bother calling him out on it cause I didnt wanna be that one "Aksually" guy, and we were only playing for fun anyways so who cares if he does it, but were it in a competitive enviroment I'd do it for sure.

[@richardfarrer5616]

It's important for people to know about mana weaving since a simple cut doesn't fix anything. I'm surprised it didn't come up in the video.

[@DiegoSanchez-tb2bo]

@@ElGrandeFatso Aksually, mana weaving is not cheating. The official rules state you are allowed to do any ordering to your deck before the randomization occurs. At the end of the game your lands are all clumped up, but even more you touch them more often during a game and spread more oil from your hands, causing them to stick together when you're attempting to shuffle. If you roughly spread them out throughout the deck before a shuffle they stick less.

[@Dnallohes]

@@DiegoSanchez-tb2bo That part isn't the cheating, you're right. But the player who did it has still cheated provided they did not then sufficiently randomize. When I have to explain it I like to use the example that if you have sufficiently randomized, your mana weaving didn't have any impact, and if you mana weaving did affect the order of your cards, then you haven't sufficiently randomized. You bring up an interesting point in relative stickiness. I haven't experienced that myself, but it seems reasonable. I'd prefer to discourage the practice of mana weaving and suggest other methods of distribution, but hey, as long as you thoroughly randomize, you do you.

[@Arrzarrina]

@@DiegoSanchez-tb2bo If you're like me and sweaty hands cause gloss back sleeves to stick together, then just play with single or double matte sleeves. Makes shuffling easier. In terms of weaving, it looks bad on the person doing it as they are manipulating their deck before shuffling. A lot of people I've seen at my LGS weave but when you watch them attempt to mash shuffle, it's painful. They've obviously learned that they have to weave because they're just crap at shuffling in the first place. Two pile shuffles (into piles of 7, natch) with a couple of mashes in-between, has never failed me with proper randomisation of the deck. Commander decks are a PITA, especially if your deck is search heavy so I usually only pile shuffle between every couple of games to smooth the land around.

[@Wabajck]

Gave a guy an upgraded marked cards violation because he was using white sleeves and had been picking at his fingers during the event. He eventually began to bleed and when deck checked we found that it just so happened that his kikki jikkis in his kikki chord deck were the most marked. Gave a game loss, forced to resleeve, and clean his hands up

[@GothamKnight-hsw4vx526430]

JEEEEEZUS, thats fucked

[@TheWhmaxwell]

eww

[@julianalvarez4231]

That's the grossest cheat ever. Eww

[@allopeth]

What I love from all your videos is the camaraderie, jokes and good vibes between Toralf, Carl and Jamin. It really multiplies the quality of the videos by 10; It looks like it would be so much fun to go to Germany to play a few magic games with you guys!

[@CardmarketMagic]

That is so kind of you to say 😃 I mean, we definitely have fun hanging out. If ever you are in Berlin, you should write us to maybe join our next FNM :)

[@bubblecheese2506]

(modern game 1) Offered opponent a cut. He grabs my deck and starts to crack shuffle. He then looks down at the deck while shuffling and gets a great look at my cards....

[@ObsidianKnight90]

That sucks. I hope you won anyway.

[@badvoodoo2097]

Just random cut his library each time As far as preventing the chuffle (cheating shuffle) split shuffle before you present your deck to your opponent or make sure your deck stays face down Also some opponents will shuffle in a way it lightly bends a corner

[@florianmuller4419]

Call a Judge! This is a rules violation. If I would get called in such an Instance, this would get him a warning.

[@ObsidianKnight90]

@@badvoodoo2097 Good advice but if your opponent picks it up and fully rotates it in his hands so he can see the bottom of your deck, it doesn't matter how you present your deck to him.

[@CardmarketMagic]

In cases like this, if you are at a game store or a tournament, please always call a judge. Even if it does not end up amounting to much in your game, if enough people notify the people responsible for the tournament, this person will get penalized and will think twice before doing this in the future

[@mirinewman]

Hey! Idea for a video: how to properly shuffle a Magic deck! I've always been terrible at shuffling in general, and the one poker-style shuffle I learned when I was 8 involves a lot more card bending than I would like to subject my deck to! Maybe Thoralf could help us out with that!

[@jasonmohn1472]

kzbin.infoH1e8JpRJXys kzbin.info/www/bejne/pILRpKqiot1lbqs kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXappniihL2Ff7c There ya go

[@Videodude810]

Yeah, Thoralf already has made this video... especially with EDH decks, which are harder to shuffle.

[@outputcoupler7819]

If you're anything like me, the correct way to shuffle a deck is "continuously, for fifty minutes, between draft rounds because you got a bye." And then you mull to five on two one-landers. Every. Time.

[@gravitronlocksport9925]

1) You can not only cut your opponents deck, but you can shuffle it as we well. 2) If your opponent is shuffling your deck and you don't believe it is sufficiently randomized, call a judge. And on a semi-related note my LGS recently had a Road to Nationals event for Flesh and Blood. In the finals one player got a warning for not properly maintaining the game state (not putting cards in the graveyard from the battlefield). Afterwards 3 other players he played against said the same thing happened to them. But none of them called the judge so he didn't get his first warning until the finals. If they would have called the judge he would have been warned earlier and been at risk of a game loss if he got caught again. Don't be afraid to call a judge. It's not rude, that is what they are there for.

[@Dragonpike]

Close to a decade ago, there was someone who won a Star City Games doing exactly this. His name was Trevor Humphries, and I remember it was the first time I witnessed a cheating incident in magic. He shuffled instead of doing a normal cut, and he even did it on camera. You'd think if you're the featured match that you'd stop cheating to not get caught

[@outputcoupler7819]

This! So much this! Always call the judge! They're there to help. Never decide against calling them because of social pressure. The judge system only works when we let it work.

[@gravitronlocksport9925]

@@outputcoupler7819 Exactly. The only people that are going to care about you calling a judge are the people trying to angle shoot. 99.9% of the time, it's nothing serious. Maybe at worst someone gets a warning. But you make sure that you get the ruling right and that the judge team is made aware of the situation so that if further incidents arise with the same player it can all be taken in to account for the proper punishment. Cheaters get away with cheating for so long because most players are too afraid or embarrassed or w/e to call a judge. Don't let them.

[@KyleTremblayTitularKtrey]

​@gravitronlocksport9925 nah or you are calling a judge cause you are angle shooting or thought you caught your opponent out somehow. There are times to call judges and times where you are a dingus

[@kristianfagerstrom7011]

I don't like the shuffle in addition to cutting rule, as that allows the opponent to do a "choice card on top" shuffle. A clear cut is the best way to avoid any cheating from any of the players.

[@AeonAnomaly]

Video idea: A match where each player is attempting to cheat and the other player has to call them out, so it's all about doing sneaky cheats. You lose or lose health or something if you get caught.

[@stefancandan5329]

Judge Tower 2: Electric Boogaloo, now with cheats. Get your binders of Cheatyfaces!

[@schwarzerritter5724]

There is a card called Cheatyface in a joke edition that you can cheat into play when your opponent isn't looking.

[@Darks290]

Had a guy mash shuffle my deck very forcefully damaging a couple of sleeves and cards, then called a judge and told them I was playing with marked cards. Thankfully the players sat beside us had seen the incident and vouched for side of the story. Apparently this player was well known for doing so in tournaments.

[@darkwyngraym]

Id have decked the guy after the event, if any cards got physically damaged. Super selfish and disrespectful.

[@KAR1492]

I had a dude at a GP flip half of his own deck around when shuffling, and then call a judge and claim i did it when i cut his deck. the judge didn't buy it but this kind of angle shooting def happens and is a really really pathetic way to try to get a free win.

[@ultimatewitcherfan6677]

I’d be very angry if my opponent deliberately damaged my cards just to get a free win! Very selfish, cruel, and disrespectful!

[@aarond1622]

I'd have asked for him to be perma banned from the venue and all events in the area. If he objected I'd file a civil lawsuit against him in court for damages to my cards with witnesses on my side.

[@Gongibongi]

This video would have been useful back when I got demolished at a prerelease when I was 14, especially the 'in situ' shuffle and the marked sleeves. This one guy that eliminated me always seemed to top deck the one card he needed even after a cut; he put his bombs in sleeves with a larger frayed edge so I always cut on it -_- Two years later the guy and a judge got busted for being besties and always splitting the rewards for the Pres and FNMs

[@dissipation]

getting in the habit of asking cards in hand is pretty common in some of the more competitive events I've played in, as you can take an educated guess on potential outs/lines they have based on # of cards - either way great video!

[@andsacchetto]

I remember participating in a legacy tournament, and having been told before the start by a kind fellow player i should have my deck checked because i was using transparent sleeves. I asked the judge. He proceeded to watch through my deck, back facing. He pulled out 4 cards and i was flabbergasted when i saw the 4 copies of force of will i had in ny deck. Turns out, alliances have a slightly lighter tone on the backs for whatever printing mistake which i was absolutely unaware of. If he didn't check i would have been easily disqualified if my opponent requested a check. So i got black sleeves and got kicked out (3 loss 1 win) at the first round anyway 😂😂😂

[@mikotagayuna8494]

Beware the guy who pile shuffles with 5 piles twice in a row. This is called the Double Nickel and it's a mana weaving cheat as they probably started with all their lands on top of their deck.

[@gravitronlocksport9925]

At Competitive REL or higher, pile shuffling is not considered sufficient to randomize your deck. If someone does it, tell them to pick it up and shuffle it for real or call a judge.

[@SniperGoldfish]

@@gravitronlocksport9925 you are allowed to do it though

[@JivanPal]

@@SniperGoldfish Only as the first thing you do, to count the number of cards in your deck. Pile "shuffling" is still not shuffling.

[@SniperGoldfish]

@@JivanPal okay. if I shuffle the deck, and then last decide the pile shuffle is it then shuffled?

[@JivanPal]

@@SniperGoldfish According to the Magic Tournament Rules (MTR), no, it isn't. There is every possibility that you may be using pile shuffling to stack your deck, i.e. to place cards in specific positions within your deck. The MTR is very clear on this: §3.10 Card Shuffling: "Pile shuffling may not be performed other than once each at the beginning of a game to count the cards in the deck."

[@incredibleflameboy]

Good timing. I'm entering an RCQ this Saturday and as someone who's deaf I'm at a disadvantage in that some people don't fully explain what they're doing. The people that I regularly play against are great with it but at my last prerelease it was pretty bad and my wins mainly came down to good deck building and a fair bit of luck.

[@AbstractMarcher]

I would let the Tournament organizer and Head judge at the event know in advance in case anything happens in a game and there are some clarity problems. I would also inform your opponent of your hearing loss to ensure they understand where you are coming from for everyone to be on the same page to avoid confusion and potential problems. I'm sure this is what you probably planned on doing anyways and do not need a random on the internet to tell you.

[@incredibleflameboy]

@@AbstractMarcher luckily it's being played at my regular store so the organisers know about the help I need. It's not usually a huge problem but I figure that it does inconvenience opponents whilst playing under time. I just get jumpy about it because people have used it to their advantage in the past. Still, I'm playing goblins so it's scientifically impossible for me to have a bad time.

[@CardmarketMagic]

J!mothy is correct. There is no reason for you to worry about your opponents if it comes to taking their time to clearly pace out their plays. It's part of the rules for them to do so :) make sure everyone is understanding what is going on and playing fair magic, and then you are in a space that should ensure everyone has fun. Feel free to let the judges present know if ever an opponent is not making you feel comfortable. Also... Goblins ❤️

[@AbstractMarcher]

@@incredibleflameboy That's good to hear. I would double check who the Head judge is for the event to be safe due to the significance of the event. It may not be who normally does it. Definitely make sure to get a judge call at the ready by any means you can if someone tries that crap. Don't need that at an RCQ. Gobbos gonna gobbo. Best of luck to you at the RCQ. Kickass and take names.

[@654jimbob654]

I played against a deaf player at GP Copenhagen one year and it was a pretty cool experience. Before the start of the game, they handed me a piece of paper explaining they were deaf and politely asking to be extra clear when taking game actions to avoid confusion. I mostly used hand gestures to communicate and checked frequently with my opponent that we were both in agreement about what was happening. We completed the match without issue and well within time (I lost lol).

[@benkubisiak1459]

One of the most awkward things that happened is I knocked a land off the top of my library and saw it. I pretty much had a deterministic kill but still told my opponent and we called a judge. Luckily it was an FNM and I just shuffled my library after the judge aaid i should, kept playing and won.

[@CardmarketMagic]

As long as it's an honest mistake and you notify a judge immediately, no harm done :) congrats on the win!

[@654jimbob654]

Playing MTG at a competitive level for a number of years definitely made me really picky about shuffling etiquette. When I would shuffle my cards or my opponent's, I would have the backs facing towards my opponent and the fronts angled downwards so I couldn't see them either. I would make a big show of not looking at my cards as I shuffled too, just so my opponent would feel comfortable that there was zero chance I could have seen the cards as I shuffled. Another thing worth noting is that at competitive and professional REL, the rules specify that you must SHUFFLE your opponent's deck when they present it to you. Just cutting their deck is not considered sufficient, though judges do seem somewhat lax in enforcing this. It's always a good practice regardless because shuffling rather than cutting removes the chance of your opponent benefitting from any kind of shenanigans.

[@JivanPal]

> Playing MTG at a competitive level for a number of years definitely made me really picky about shuffling etiquette. It's not just you; watch how Reid Duke shuffles. He always very intentionally looks away from the table/deck.

[@typhfab]

the worst part of marked cards is how even factory sealed sleeves can end up being marked unintentionally. my dragon shield dual mattes have had little pock marks on a few sleeves in the pack for all the packs i've bought recently, and so i've had to start "deck checking" my own sleeves as soon as i put them on, lol.

[@TheRealPlato]

i've seen these on the clear front; have you encountered them on the back as well? were they dual mattes or mattes or custom art?

[@Dragonpike]

Many years ago I looked into a good amount of cheating incidents. There are multiple times Alex Bertoncini would play a card he already played (I think he both drew from bin and just kept cards he played in hand). The other big thing I remember is Trevor Humphries, when he cut his opponents' decks, he would shuffle his opponent's deck instead of doing a simple cut and he would do the fake cut and either mana flood or mana screw them (I forget which)

[@Nalianna]

TWO explores. It's not an accident he's called BertonCheaty.

[@HeavyMetalMouse]

Back at a local gaming club, we had one player who was a very... aggressive personality. Disagreeing with him on anything often meant signing up for an escalating argument. This player also was a blatant cheater - during a game, he would randomly just look at his top card, without any effect allowing such an action. He would often try to be a little sly about it, doing it when he thought the opponent was otherwise not looking. Worst, he would do this regardless of whether the game was 'important' or not - casual games, playtesting decks for an event, whatever - and any attempt to call him out on it meant settling in for a round of "what does it matter? it isn't changing anything" and then trying to patiently explain that it does, in fact, matter, because it is, in fact, cheating to gain information; followed, of course, by the inevitable escalation into argument in which all the stops would be pulled out to make the person calling him out seem like the unreasonable person for... y'know... wanting to play a card game fairly. It only took a couple iterations of this happening before I stopped playing with him entirely, and not much longer before he mostly stopped coming to club meetings (likely because people didn't want to play with him). In short, sometimes cheating can be just as simple as your opponent thinking he can get away with something while you're busy reading cards or making decisions. Not MtG, but I actually had an Aunt who did this all the time in board games (like Monopoly) when I was a kid; she would, as far as we could tell, never *keep* the benefits of cheating, but she would always be doing stuff like taking extra money from the bank, or pulling out an extra house to place, and just "waiting until someone noticed" (meanwhile, most of the rest of the players are busy dealing with their own money, property, and strategy, so aren't accustomed to watching other people whom they are ostensibly friends with to prevent cheating), getting more and more blatant over the course of a game until someone finally caught her out and she'd laugh it off and put things back proper.

[@dgarrard100]

At an FNM, I once accidentally used two different colors of sleeves in the same deck. (Dragon Shield's "Black" and "Jet", both matte.) It took me half the night to even notice, since they're very similar in the right lighting, and _none_ of my opponents noticed. If someone wanted to cheat by doing that, I doubt it would go unnoticed at a high-level event, but it might go unnoticed at FNM or similar quasi-casual events. After that night, I made sure all my draft sleeves were the same color.

[@MTG_Soenke]

Very nice video! Gladly I never had to encounter this topic, or did I just not realized until now...? Loved the Pauper Decks you used to demonstrate! Although I can't see Pauper Players cheating, we are to common for that 😄

[@CardmarketMagic]

Loved the pau-pun!

[@DismemberTheAlamo]

Its so nice that at my shop when Im playing with my reg fnm players or even just watching, everytime a fetch happens they always ask someone else to cut their deck. Even to the detriment of holding up the game sometimes lol Glad to have sucha great casual and honest playgroup.

[@lowelltan2711]

To avoid unintentionally marked sleeves, it would be better to use outer shields (Clear) or double sleeve (if allowed) your favorite sleeves to use to avoid wear and tear and just replace the outer shields. I always use them on those special sleeves I have. That or probably use generic non-clear/transparent(specially if you have double sided cards) sleeves just to simplify everything.

[@GoneMorbid]

This was a very helpful and informative video! I'm pretty new to magic and havent experienced anything like this yet, but its great to be aware of.

[@ryanratcliff2726]

There's a variant of Cheat #1 that's hard to protect against when your opponent intentionally shuffles a card (land/dead card, etc) to the top of your deck while they're shuffling it. If that happens, you don't have the option to cut it again since you aren't allowed to shuffle/cut after your opponent does so. If you spot it, best thing to do is call a judge. The judge can shuffle your deck again and/or deal with any cheating that may or may not have occurred.

[@Arrzarrina]

It's my understanding that if your opponent fully shuffles your deck, you are allowed to cut it yourself. I might be wrong though.

[@ryanratcliff2726]

@@Arrzarrina I looked through the tournament rules and did not see anything about additional cuts being permitted after your opponent shuffles your deck. It would cut down on the ability of your opponent to cheat you, but re-introduce an opportunity for you to cheat as well, which is probably why it's not permitted.

[@Jesse110]

I feel like this order of operations if made allowed in tournament would solve a lot of issues. 1. Player shuffles 2. Opponent shuffles 3. Player cuts 4. Opponent cuts

[@michaeltimmerman9758]

Lot's of players often do a small shuffle when offered a cut and usually I'm cool with that, it's a lot easier to ensure the opponent couldn't have cheated cards to the top however I had one guy attempt to bridge my cards then he tried to called a judge cause I was clearly being suspicious as I wouldn't let him shuffle my legacy deck

[@krimhorn]

The land one is definitely the easiest accidental cheat to happen. It's about once a week, on average, that it ends up coming up in one way or another.

[@pookygallahad4749]

Meanwhile I had a guy playing commander with 50 red sleeves and 50 black ones. All his land and mana producers were in the black sleeves, he didn’t seem to understand why this wasn’t cool

[@necrocorey6408]

Honestly if it was randomly distributed, I wouldn't even be mad. I know how it is to be broke and not afford sleeves lol.

[@hjge1012]

Thanks for teaching me how to win! Now I just need to practice my shuffling for a bit.

[@Nalianna]

I caught a player once, intentionally drawing FEWER cards... his goal was to allow the game to progress, then call judge and accuse his opponent of drawing extras.

[@TheDustyPeaches]

Another way people cheat with "Marked Sleeves" is that over a few months the texture of the same exact sleeve set will change very slightly for example a brand new box of Matte Green Dragonshields will look very slightly different from Matte Green Dragonshields bought the previous month and people can often times get away with it by saying that they re sleeved a few of their cards due to a busted sleeve and thought because they were the exact same product they would be in the clear however I have seen multiple DQs for this with I suspect some were not intended so if you replace sleeves replace all of them at once or buy the replacements at the same time from the manufacturer. For standard luckily you have 75 cards and likely 100 sleeves so you can keep your extra 25 from the same box to be extra safe.

[@gabegerszewski3755]

Great content. Cheaters are super uncool. We luckily have a play group that's really good, so we don't have any issues with malicious intent.

[@CardmarketMagic]

Yes we forgot to mention the best way to avoid cheating: have a wholesome playgroup :)

[@Zarl451]

You can also help with this as an honest player by normalising some of the behaviour. I always offer my desk to my opponent to cut at the beginning of the game, i verbally declare land plays etc. The more these things are normalised the less room in the "social contract" there are for cheaters to exploit.

[@CardmarketMagic]

Yes this is very important :)

[@bobowon5450]

the most common cheat i see is, someone starts their turn, draws, plays a land, does some stuff, then asks "did i play a land?" then plays another land. So its become a house rule where if you have to ask if you've played a land, the answer is yes you have.

[@Nalianna]

That's a good rule.

[@skylar5257]

I see the point but if a game goes long sometimes things can slip the mind every now and then I play commander with a buddy and it happens a decent bit. Call my memory faulty but it can happen.

[@mrfoodskater]

Thats mostly just accident not cheating

[@bobowon5450]

@@mrfoodskater not with the rate it happens.

[@mrfoodskater]

@@bobowon5450 in tourneys maybe

[@BobertJoe]

I was looking into the system in place for how to become a judge, and having taking a pretty big hiatus between 2015 and last year, I was absolutely astonished to learn that WotC has basically disavowed judging. Its crazy to me. This video has done more to help people learn to play the game fairly than WotC has in the last 5 years. That said, that dive also made me realize that a judge, especially at a local event, is probably not somebody I could trust to do more than make a basic ruling on board state interaction.

[@phaeste]

Also the entire having to pay to be a judge as well as having to find a higher level one to become a higher level is really weird. Just google it, it's faster, easier and you'll probably learn more anyways

[@necrocorey6408]

I stopped playing at my LGS because the judge there was a massive cheater. He always had unrealistic decks, always won, always won any door prizes, etc. The shop owner let him run everything because he didn't know anything about Magic. I lost more games than I care to remember to him when I was still new to mtg. After a year or two of playing I realized he was not only cheating, but doing it so brazenly that it was offensive to me. I brought it up and basically got shrugged at. The fact that everyone just accepted it because we don't have any other LGS where I live was enough to make me leave and stop playing mtg for years. I just recently started again and am playing in house only.

[@heitortremor]

Showing off expert ways you "could" cheat really makes people look at you twice

[@entertainmentinc9735]

Ya especially at 3:20,

[@CardmarketMagic]

This is only to help people avoid these situations in the future. We realized that so much of the content about cheating on KZbin is about shaming players, we thought it would be good to put something out there that is about helping others instead of bullying specific individuals

[@heitortremor]

@@CardmarketMagic Oh, absolutely. I intended my comment to be mildly humorous. The videos on this channel are always so much appreciated!

[@BaronSengir1008]

Hey, more views are always appreciated! Lol

[@nayrained]

I didn't know how to cheat and now I can cheat freely. Thanks, guys! :D Please understand the SARCASM

[@brandenbatey4066]

Love the content when will be seeing more commander content from you guys I love seeing how fast the game turns to a toffel vs table lol

[@CardmarketMagic]

We are filming commander with MTG Goldfish next week :)

[@Millus1987]

When I was in highschool, a guy in our "cafeteria playgroup" who marked all of his cards with a little symbol in a corner. After finding out, the guy just left embarrased and never returned. Also playing yu-gi-oh in my LGS, another guy pulled full Exodia in his initial hand (5 exact cards, one copy of each piece in a 40-card deck, initial hand size is five) TWICE the same day in a local tournament. Very suspicious, but he wasn't never caught.

[@BraxtonMeyer]

The most important part of this video is the ending message, that generally people aren't cheating but to keep an eye out.

[@KAR1492]

In regards to any worries about your old sleeves being deemed as "marked", I've always found it best to just go into any competitive REL event with brand new sleeves that you've never used before. It's annoying to have to buy and resleeve your deck, but it's better than getting DQd

[@yuriemmettippi4503]

About "shuffling a card to the top" and "the fake cut": i always ask my opponent explicity for cutting his deck if they don't present it to me, and of course i always present my deck to my opponent after shuffle asking if they may cut it

[@solemnsimulacrum]

What this video made me realize is that I don't have the dexterity to cheat in magic.

[@petrakat]

Hahaha. I wanted to be a magician when I was younger and I've always wondered if you could use card forces in a game of Magic ... Here begins my supervillain arc!

[@CardmarketMagic]

Or you could use your powers for good and entertain your friends with cool tricks using their decks :)

[@Archerforthelord]

Thanks for showing me how to cheat. Can't wait for my next local tournament! Also how can I buy Carl Market sleeves?

[@chiefdragoon9693]

I'd love to play a game against you guys. Like, you three seem really fun. Great video as always!

[@lukeoutbelow]

Hey guys, great video. As someone who plays in a lot of competitive events through the year I’m curious what your take is on speed of play. I’ve run into a handful of situations, especially with store championships and RCQs, where I notice players are intentionally slow-playing turns or stalling out matches by taking extra long turns in order to get more match draws or to avoid final game losses. What would be the appropriate response for someone in situations where they feel their opponent is either intentionally slow-playing or simply taking way too long for their turns? What should players do in situations where the event is not being monitored by a Judge? What would your take be on paper events giving players time banks to play their turns in a set, similar to Magic Arena and Magic Online?

[@johnlancaster2841]

In competitive paper events, such as RCQs, MagicFests, and so on, there is supposed to be a sanctioned judge present. If you suspect your opponent is slow-playing, always call your judge and explain. This lets your opponent know that you are aware of what they are/could be up to and will usually incentivize them to play correctly, because they know that if anyone else calls them out for slow playing it will look that much worse on them. Just be mindful of the deck they are playing. I play a Mardu control list in pioneer and I have to think and do math in my head a lot, which can be interpreted as slow play when I really am just thinking about my next action to minimize my potential errors. TL;DR, when in doubt, call a judge. If your RCQ or other competitive event has no judge, contact WotC when you can. For casual events, just be vocal and discuss matters with the person running the store when you can.

[@entertainmentinc9735]

There’s no solution to this because when you call a judge over your opponent has already successfully wasted enough time.

[@TheRealPlato]

before calling a judge it is polite to tell opponent "I need you to play faster."

[@lukeoutbelow]

@@johnlancaster2841 I absolutely agree with this stance. Sadly, this type of situation won’t always be as clear cut. Store championships, at least in my region, typically will not have judges in attendance. This is especially true if the event is a limited format. For example, I attended a sealed store championship a couple weeks ago at my lgs where I played alongside a couple judges. The event had no judge moderating. Round 3 myself and one of the judges who were done with their matches were watching a seemingly tight match when we realized that the players were only on game 1 after 30 minutes. When game 2 eventually took place we immediately noticed that one player (the slow-player) was taking a considerable amount of time for each turn with what appeared to be a Boros Aggro deck. There were instances where the player would start his turns with long periods of thought which we didn’t pay any mind too originally. As the game progressed and we noticed this occurred every turn, I went ahead and looked at the player’s hand to understand what his thinking may be and his hand was entirely lands besides 1 Cut Short (kill spell for tapped creatures or planeswalkers who activated their ability that turn). At that moment I relayed the info privately to judge who was participating in the tournament and spectating and the player was told to increase their pace of play. This worked for a while until they began to slow play again. When their play slowed again we went over to the store owner to explain the situation and they issued a warning to the player, but at that point 45 minutes had passed in the round and the damage had been done. That player ended up winning the event with less total matches played than the next 3 players, not due to 2-0ing opponents but by winning a game and stalling out the second match in multiple rounds. Even in situations where players understand that some form of cheating may be occurring, if an event does not have a judge there’s hardly anything the victim players can do in response even if they’re knowledgeable of proper etiquette. For players who are newer to competitive events or haven’t run into situations like this before, they’re either not going to understand their rights as a player for fair play or worse be taken advantage of by their opponents. I think it’s also fair to assume that most paper magic players that attend events wouldn’t even know that slow pace of play can be a legitimate form of cheating if done maliciously to gain an advantage. I believe that it leads to an interesting discussion in whether paper events should have play clocks. I’m cautious to compare the thinking in paper magic to online magic and even to other thought-intensive games such as chess, but their could be a feasible solution besides having judges at every competitive event and getting the general player base to have a better understanding of rules that players may attempt to break.

[@brandoncampbell1537]

Very cool stuff. This kind of content was equally entertaining and highly informative!

[@TheJadeFist]

@ Weird shuffling, that's me for sure, I do a 8 card pile shuffle, and just lay them out randomly into several piles then do a the more normal chunk shuffling a few times after. I get that it might look odd, and it might look like trying to stack the deck with some convoluted street magicians level trick but I'm not trying to stack the deck. Anyone against me is more than welcome to cut. Mostly I don't want to shuffle them like normal playing cards, and if the deck has sleeves it's harder shuffle otherwise, mid game I'm not going through the whole thing it'll just be a the chunk shuffle. (I don't know if there is a word to that type shuffling, where you kinda shuffle by moving chunks of the deck around and slide them into the other parts of the deck. It's that type of shuffling most people do)

[@karolstopinski8350]

Forgetting the land plays is something that happens to me very often. Most of the time i`ll just not drop a land if i forgot. In late game it doesnt that much and in early you can try to compare the amount of lands and which turn it is.

[@krimhorn]

Even early in the game it can be difficult. Had it come up last week where I had 4 lands and my opponent (who was on the play had 3) and neither of us could remember if it was turn 3 or 4 and if he'd missed a land drop or not. I ended up just pulling the land I'd played back out of an abundance of caution (no one had anything beyond a 2-drop out that could have answered the question by board state) but he definitely could have gained an advantage from that if it WAS turn 4 and he had missed a land drop.

[@karolstopinski8350]

@@krimhorn yeah. I tried implementing a strategy where i would put the land i played for turn away from other lands, then during untap merge them all together but I keep forgetting to do that too :)

[@electra_]

this is probably where you just call a judge, they are experienced and can hopefully help you logic out which turn it is and such doesn't need to be an accusation of cheating, just let them help you ensure you dont cheat by accident

[@outputcoupler7819]

You can count the cards drawn to know the turn. If you were on the play, take the total number of cards drawn, subtract your starting hand size, then subtract the number of cards drawn from card effects, then add 1. That is your current turn. On the draw, don't add 1. Example: You've played Ancestral Recall and Treasure Cruise. You did not mulligan. You have five cards in hand, five lands in play, three cards in graveyard, and five exiled. You know you made your land drop every previous turn, but aren't sure about this one. Can you play a land? If you were on the play, yes. On the draw, no. Working through it step by step, you've pulled 18 cards in total off the top of your deck. 3 cards came from Recall, 3 cards were from Cruise and 7 were in your starting hand, for 13 cards drawn from things other than your draw phase. So you've had five draw phases. On the play, you get your fifth draw phase on your sixth turn. On the draw, it's your fifth turn. Or, using just the math, 18 - 7 - 3 - 3 tells us it's turn 5. Add one turn if you're on the play. This gets trickier when things have optional draw effects, or triggered draw effects, to the point that it can quickly become impossible to perfectly recreate the game state to know the turn. But most of the time this works well enough.

[@jameshenderson8321]

Great Production on this Guys and Team behind it!. love the panel style shots in between the live examples

[@thefatone4378]

As a budget player I hate the marked sleeves rule. A set of sleeves cost more than some of my decks, no way in hell Im changing them.

[@CardmarketMagic]

As long as you are not playing competitive tournaments and you don't use the difference in your sleeves to an unfair advantage, if your friends don't mind, then you are doing nothing wrong :)

[@JacksonParodi]

I hope we'll have a pauper video of those familiars and poison storm decks

[@CardmarketMagic]

Unfortunately, not any time soon. We play a lot of pauper, which is why we had the decks laying around :)

[@philipkelly7369]

I play with quite a few newer players at FNM nights, and not surprisingly they aren't well-versed in a lot of the regular actions you take when you aren't playing kitchen table casual magic. Always cutting the opponents deck is chief among these, and what I like to tell them is: "Trust you opponent. But always cut their deck anyway."

[@ryanblake7114]

i think the only time i'd be upset at someone shuffling my deck would be if they riffled or bridged. If someone is going to potentially damage my cards on accident it's going to be me

[@lucylightbringer]

A good friend of mine always cheated with his shuffling when playing against me. I don't know if he did other cheats. He would never admit it. I eventually had to stop playing against him. One time when I beat him he cried. I thought that was really pathetic. I can't imagine being so invested in winning by any means that winning fairly would be meaningless to me. What a scumbag.

[@joeblack4849]

I think this stuff with Foils is like sooo depressive, u are buying foils to look cooler, but instead they making u look dumb(

[@Kenshin564]

If you are in doubt but want to play some sweet foils or alternate arts that only exist as foils, then go to a judge (preferably the head judge if there are many) before the event starts and ask him or her if they approve of you playing them. Offer to hand them your deck so they can check. They will now probably shuffle and try to cut to your foils. If they hit suspiciously often they will not allow it. Bring non-foil replacements for those cards with you in case you are not allowed to use these foils. I do this with my Lotus Combo deck in Pioneer because the Fields are secret lair cards that have no non-foil version of the artwork. The one time it came up the judge checked and gave me an okay, so everything was fine.

[@gamblerfls]

The 8+ card cheat is the most classic. It was heavily used in the mid 90s before the redraw rule with -1 card.

[@giorgioleoni3471]

Thanks for teaching us how to cheat!

[@101arg101]

Surprised that giving incorrect rulings isn’t on this list. Probably one of the easiest ways to cheat because of it’s plausible deniability

[@sablefang4330]

Liked this video so more people can see it! Otherwise if only a small group knows these methods it will be tempting to try them :)

[@Nighterfighter1771]

Time to buy some Carlmarket sleeves for my combo pieces! :P

[@egoish6762]

When i started hitting RCQs again in the UK there are a lot of people who like odd or even for first turn, not had anyone try to bully me with anything like it but odd or even cuts it out.

[@Kenshin564]

Yeah I prefer that, too. Super hard to cheat (even a weighted die doesn't help because the opponent choses odd or even) and there is no way to bamboozle someone by lying about the results. In addition it is guaranteed that it is decided in one roll. If you do high roll both might roll the same number of eyes.

[@devinanni8117]

Running the dark ascension prerelease i remember walking by a r/g deck playing against a u/w deck. I noticed the red green player had more cards in hand grave and on the field. Very strange he seemed to have drawn 8 extra cards accidentally through the corse of the game

[@DayOfCasual]

MOAR CARDMARKET CONTENT, MOAR! My favourite channel!

[@ultimatewitcherfan6677]

Another thing to pay attention to is how much force your opponent is using while shuffling your deck. If you notice that your opponent is shuffling your deck with unnecessary force, notify a judge immediately. Your opponent could be trying to deliberately damage your cards in order to accuse you of playing with “marked” cards and get a free win.

[@Think_Deep]

This is a case where knowledge of magic tricks can help with Magic: the Gathering.

[@CardmarketMagic]

Oh yeah! Doing card tricks with leftover draft cards is a great way to entertain people between rounds as well if you'd rather use your powers for good :P

[@BaronSengir1008]

​@@CardmarketMagic"Is this your card?"

[@theNightDice]

Regarding shuffling to the top: You are not just allowed to cut, you're also allowed to shuffle your opponents deck. In tournaments or at events where prizes are involved, you should absolutely do that. Just give it a few quick shuffles. It's not much effort and you're much safer from cheaters that use any kind of deck manipulation Also, regarding shuffles: Pile shuffling does not actually randomize the deck, the only thing it can be used for in a non-cheating way is counting out your deck after sideboarding. If your opponent exclusively pile shuffles, you have three options, in order of escalation: shuffle their deck very thoroughly, call them out or call a judge. Or combinations of these. To explain what pile shuffling is, just so everyone is aware of exactly the type of shuffle I mean, it is when you put cards into piles one at a time and then stack the piles. But as you guys said, people intentionally cheating are really rare. The thing about pile shuffling is that occasionally, new players will pick it up as a habit without realizing it is effectively cheating (because it does not sufficiently randomize your deck), so if you do encounter someone doing it, go easy on them unless you're already certain from other things that they want to cheat.

[@gazeboist4535]

Playing a game against my then-GF a few years ago, I thought my opening hand was pretty great, so I took a picture of it. Looking at the pic after the game, it turned out I had miscounted and given myself 8 cards...

[@ragnar3434]

A VERY good hand, then.

[@tylerstegman6846]

What ive learned is if im playing against thoralf, i need to watch him closely bc he cheats proficiently

[@Last_Resort991]

Now you know how he won tournaments.

[@micheal5973]

Missed all the fun ones. Cut my deck Ok Judge!! He’s messing with my deck! Or the sleeve one. If you have to replace a sleeve from damage etc. replace all of them because there could be slight shade or size/cut differences between sleeves even if it’s the exact same colour from the exact same brand. Or the I need to use the washroom during a draft and am gonna take my deck with me and somehow my deck mysteriously has a play set of every good card

[@Bomsanchu]

i love that as an actual cheater (not really) i basically caught all the cheats, i did card tricks before i got into magic, making 2 cards look like 1, fake shuffles, forcing cards to the top, etc. i have purposefully told my group and i am basically the only one that gets their deck cut every time, when i feel someone used a shuffle that i would use to do it then i would ask to cut their deck, as a magician you always learn to look at peoples hands and not fall for some misdirection.

[@texhakathisia1712]

Reminded me of kitchen table times when we would "sneakily" take a land out of our deck and put it in the hand in high school 😅

[@alexfarquharson3942]

I remember an Fnm where I was playing boros midrange. There was was a guy to my left who kept trying to grab my library and graveyard with the intention of slipping in an extra boros reckoner into the mix so my opponent, his friend, could claim I was cheating and therefore should take a loss. After the Fnm, this guy and his friend tried to jump me outside but my friend was right there with me and we kicked the crap out of these guys. I played one more organized event after that with equally toxic participants. It was the last time I played organized magic ever, because I didn't want to deal with the childish bs anymore.

[@nolanpearson211]

jesus what a horrible experience. Imagine trying to jump someone over a card game. Sorry that happened to you. There are good local communities out there! Trust me

[@nolanpearson211]

jesus what a horrible experience. Imagine trying to jump someone over a card game. Sorry that happened to you. There are good local communities out there! Trust me

[@adambalaz2468]

I used to be bad when first playing with looking while shuffling but I have to admit... I still get away with the extra land or costing my opinion one because of that question

[@Razomka]

Great content. I'm going to try a few of these for my next FNM..... I'm just kidding! I'll be vigilant

[@helfiswelf]

I think we need a shuffling device or solid randomizing process because I hate giving my deck to a pathetic person in a competition who go on to mark my stuff, look, bridge, bottom, and basically cheat with this rule alone. I know it’s to keep it fair but what is the alternative? I’d do it!

[@necrocorey6408]

I would LOVE a shuffle machine or something. I think they're frowned on because they damage cards? But most people I see "shuffle" cards are damaging them so how bad could it really be? And also, I'm just not confident I'm a good shuffler. When I see the same cards a lot during a draft or something it makes me wonder if I just suck at shuffling lol.

[@girththeogre]

Thank you for the great video!💚

[@CardmarketMagic]

Thank you for the kind comment :)

[@camael4209]

I love the carlmarket sleeves 😂😂 Brilliant

[@neoneanderthal2658]

Only one time have I happened to catch a cheat. Some guy knocked his deck over "on accident". It just slid down - no cards were revealed or anything, so normally nothing would have happened, guy even just used one finger to correct it(the other hand holding the base. Except I had JUST been counting his mana base to know if I could do something and wouldn't you know - his deck just so happened to fall perfectly on top of a swamp...that wasn't there before.

[@doodlyboy15]

Loved 'because they wink' just got me haha

[@carterpoland4450]

you can tell Thoralf has been practicing this for a while

[@watcherofsomething7439]

6:05I disagree with not minding to be asked how many cards you have in hand in this scenario if you have 0 cards and your opponent asks it feels like a taunt.

[@RexualChoc-qg1nz]

Some people put their cards down out of their hands, so it's a confirmation

[@josephcourtright8071]

That die roll was amateur hour. After rolling the dice you snatch them back up before your opponent gets a good look at them then confidently proclaim "I'll go first."

[@notcaboose4415]

if i get a plains i win is a phrase nobody has ever said

[@zrikukano5263]

Awesome content as always, was wondering if there is a name for the outro song of the video?. Its pretty catchy

[@CardmarketMagic]

It's such a banger! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHy4ZIqchcyXhLc

[@UrGhostGaming]

Always great content

[@mariosalvati5434]

I wanted to know how to spot them... but here i did learn some nice tricks 😂

[@Domekarl]

i hate people playing with old dirty sleeves, especially at prereleases sleeves are suspiciously dirty

[@mana_station]

Awesome vid, guys. Thanks

[@tubejeh11]

Great video, thank you!

[@kalikaiz]

0:45 playing the two decks I helped push!!! What?! That's awesome

[@CardmarketMagic]

Oh hey! 👋 yes, we love both Pauper & your videos! 😃

[@kalikaiz]

@@CardmarketMagic that's really awesome to see and hear. Keep up your great videos! Let me know if you want a cameo haha

[@CardmarketMagic]

@kalikaiz keep up the great pauper leagues! It's really expensive to fly people over to Berlin 😅 but if ever you are in Europe anyway, we'd be thrilled to film a pauper series with you! :)

[@CardmarketMagic]

@@kalikaiz honestly, our warm-up before playing a pauper game is to watch your video on each deck before filming if you've played it

[@kalikaiz]

@@CardmarketMagic had a great time in Berlin when I visited a long time ago. Maybe these leagues can get me a run into Europe for paupergeddon and a visit again!

[@santiagomacedo9463]

Well i got cheated on by a "pro" player many times, just kept drawing perfect draws with extended goblins on mirrodin era. He was later banned from playing the game on competitive level for some years for this. Respect the Judges work, since it could be the differenece between having a blast or getting really angry and smacking someone on the face.

[@Rodinj10]

5:35 that's just me in an average commander game!

[@emidex8721]

alternative title: How to Cheat at Magic: The Gathering

[@Romashka_Sov]

As someone who is bad at shuffling, i always offer my deck to all of my opponents to cut it

[@deankolpin4736]

There were two explores damn it!