How To Clip A Quickdraws When Sport Climbing | Climbing Daily Ep.1768

[@barbmoody4892]

Thank You Trevor, most cogent and understandable explanation I’ve ever heard about “back-clipping”

[@Furansowakun]

Same, really the best video about it

[@Mateusfsxrc3phun]

Trevor is so eloquent and natural with the camera

[@joncwolf5666]

Questioning advice at time stamp 4:46. If the rope below the gate gets hung up on a rock, the rope above the gate will come down first. That scenario would allow for the gate to be opened by the rope above the quickdraw. For example; How many times when pulling rope down on a climb, does an upper section of rope come down first? Why does this happen? Because the lower section of rope gets hung up. I've seen rope come through a gate. The weight of a rope x velocity can easily overcome a closed gate and what ever gravity may be on its side. Best practice is to take the gate out of the picture by facing it away from the direction you are climbing. Keep physics on your side.

[@LeftCoast_TomP]

Ignoring direction of travel advice is controversial for sure. Climbing draw manufactures show directionality making a difference on the literature that comes with the draws. But after watching this I tried to make a rope come out of a draw from above and I could not make it happen even whipping it into the gate and I am pretty good at whipping ropes. I even tried to whip it through holding the carabiner in a way to make it more likely - even at close range - no luck. Maybe after a thousand tries it might. Try it yourself (without back clipping). I also tried pulling the rope down right beside the draw like if the rope connection at your harness passed right by the draw and no luck with that either. It could make for a good game at the crag. Ten bucks for anyone who can whip a rope through a draw gate not touching the draw in anyway. Anyway not something to get real freaked out about.

[@mindblown42069]

This guy is a natural communicator, good job.

[@DigitalAndInnovation]

Wow, that demo of why quick-draws wont fail from standard placement really brought it home for me! It seems natural to worry about the rope from un-clipping... But your demo really brought it home how the loads would not allow it to in normal situations

[@RichardRLiu]

I'm not sure I agree with Trevor's explanation. Whether the climber's rope can get "behind" the carabiner depends on the placement of the bolt, the displacement of the climber relative thereto, and the terrain between the climber and the bolt. A bolt placed close to a vertical edge around which the climber climbs and before continuing, now "around the corner and up", could unclip if the quickdraw is pulled in such a way that the carabiner in which the rope was clipped dangles past the edge. As a mathematician I am always sceptical about arguments that depend on probability, the only measurable parameter of the strength of which seems to be voice inflection when stating it.

[@hammerjb]

Good information and explanations, concise, and good visuals. Thanks.

[@AliA-we2uu]

Thank you so much for the very informative tutorial. God bless you!

[@julianbarajas684]

THANK YOU!! For so long I have argued the point of whether the direction of the gate matters, because no one has ever proven to me it was possible to open a gate with a fall as long as you are not back clipped. You even find on manufacturers' websites the myth that you must position the gates away from your climbing direction.

[@andrejmjk_]

but if you think about dragging the gate against the rock while climbing diagonnaly the gate may get opened against the rock and let the rope out

[@scherry2900]

In my area all people use draws with gates facing same direction. The reason is simple. Older Rings in the routes to clip and you don't want that the gate of your rope carabiner is facing the rock. If there are no rings it doesn't matter. If you dont know the area and all the bolts. With same direction gates you never have any issue.

[@awakenvibing9463]

I guess this is the answe I was looking for

[@IsuckYoungBlood]

I assume you mean rings like the one in this picture? Just for sake of clarity for beginners. www.alamy.com/traditional-ring-bolt-used-for-climbing-protection-in-the-elbsandsteingebirge-image5665806.html

[@scherry2900]

@@IsuckYoungBlood exactly these rings.

[@adanon1]

SO MUCH NEEDED VIDEO !! thank you

[@sket179]

Nice job. I was instructed to clip the gates always away from where the climber travels. Now I know it's not a big difference whether this is done or not. I usually have both gates facing the same direction in the carabiner unlike in this video. It was the thing here that was throwing me off the most. But in Finland, most crags don't have hanger plates anymore but simple vertical bolts. So there's no advantage of the exposed screw stopping the biner. Because of this, does it matter if the gate is turned downwards or upwards when rope drag is lifting the quickdraw to a more horizontal position?

[@CaldDesheft]

Any reason his gates were opposite each other? I’ve only seen draws with same side facing gates.

[@FloodCsgo]

Completely personal preference. It makes no difference safety-wise. It will likely provide an indicator as to which draw goes into the bolt, along with other indicators explained in the video.

[@Cacovangor]

One of those small discussion points about direction of movement relative to the bolt, with the quickdraw being less likely to unclip itself on certain types of bolts which are not used as often anymore as the compression and glue in bolts. However, this was always an exceedingly unlikely event which is hard to recreate and difficult to see as this depends even on the positioning of the bolt relative to features of the rock. Trevor Massiah has been climbing a long time, and opposite gates would’ve been standard for him, thus he is most familiar with one direction into a bolt and another direction for the rope. Changing that now would offer almost nothing for safety but screw with efficiency of clipping.

[@Jesse-xu6wx]

Tests tell you not to do it, as well as placing your bolt side draw, spine in the direction of the climb (and fall). Why is he on this channel giving safety advice?

[@IsuckYoungBlood]

@@Jesse-xu6wx that's not true, there's an article by Black Diamond explaining there's no safety issue with using opposing gates. eu.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_PL/experience-story?cid=to-oppose-or-not-quickdraw-biners

[@Jesse-xu6wx]

@@IsuckYoungBlood watch climbing fails and you will see the their worst case scenario does happen. Your article is two years old, and kind of proves my point. I’ll look for the one that further proves my point. At the end of the day, we are mitigating hundreds of risks to have fun. If you want to ignore a few, that’s on you. (and your partner)

[@jonmapa0077]

Ive always been taught to clip the draws opposing your last one, say you clip with the bottom biners gate to the right, clip the next draw so its to the left, this will help prevent greater falls in the case of a backclip

[@jonmapa0077]

@flippy66 Mistakes happen, and it does happen, I've accidentally backclipped and fell through that biner, luckily, because of the way my draws were set up I didn't fall all the way, I haven't been climbing sport for to long, maybe 6 months. But that dosent mean an experienced person witb 25 years will never make that mistake

[@johannessporer]

4:48 flat earthers be like: this is a conspiracy!

[@John-eq8cu]

I noticed that the 'biners in your draws face opposite directions. That's unusual. But it's also arbitrary. So long as you don't back-clip it, it's ok, but why do you do it this way?

[@MrHappy-oq7ot]

Both have pros and cons,either way is fine

[@truthdefenders-]

Good vid, one question and this came up on another video I watched. You had you gates opposing each other on your quickdraws, was that on purpose and why? Normally they face the same direction. thnx

[@williamtaylor5514]

Thank you Trevor for scaring the shit out of me

[@remz5722]

The rope unclipping itself during a fall happened with a friend of mine, so it is possible, might not be likely, but definitely not impossible.

[@somanayr]

Could it have been backclipped? I clipping while backclipped is totally a thing

[@remz5722]

@@somanayr maybe, but it happened with 2 or 3 in a row, and i find it unlikely that he would have backclipped all of them, he's a seasoned climber.

[@jaykudie]

@@remz5722 If it happened with 2 or 3 in a row it's more likely he back clipped all of them then the rope popped open 2-3 quickdraws.

[@remz5722]

@@jaykudie We've done some test since. Rope wasn't back clipped, but the gate was facing in the direction of travel, which may result in the rope unclipping itself even though it isn't backclipped. especially in certain cases where the quickdraw isn't sitting quite right on the rock. We were able to replicate the results on the route in question (although we did not attempt all 3 quickdraws for safety reasons).

[@35andRetired]

For what it is worth, I just bought some petzl quick draws and in the manual, it says that the gate facing the direction of the climbing is potentially fatal. I agree with you that it seems impossible but I doubt they would warn against it if it were truly impossible….

[@arthurstriker3894]

Nice. Thank you. I just order 12 quickdraws and rope. This helped

[@dailyclimbing]

Where do u get them from? (If u don’t mind us asking 😉)

[@jamesbroadbent3555]

Great description

[@mateoc.4791]

Is it safest to just have your top gate facing the oppostie direction you climb

[@bullfrogboss8008]

I think Trevor is a first black rock climber I've ever seen

[@discombobulateme]

I do freak out about clipping direction, thank you for showing unclipping is not physically possible

[@kevingeary1472]

Good video, these may be basic things but they are not always explained well.

[@jonmichael6478]

Good info, cheers.

[@vitorloureiro6570]

Perfect, great job.

[@NiviGoal]

4:22 it's a wrong example. It's a backcliping.

[@MikhailKoslowski]

They inserted another closeup clip unrelated to the example being given. He cliped the right way but in the closeup you can see a backclip..

[@pszym87]

If you back-clip and position the carabiner gate opposite to the direction of the climb, the rope cannot accidentally unclip. Overall, this method enhances your safety.

[@karlmorgan-jones537]

Great instruction. Thank you.

[@murray1234ful]

Cheers Trev

[@bilchito]

It's already tested that is easy to break a carabiner at its nose area if the straight gate on the hanger is facing the same direction the climber goes. The spine (The strongest part) always should be facing the other way. That's why is not advisable having the two carabiners facing opposite in the quick draw at least you turn around the straight gate once already clipped or the route and climber go straight up.

[@hikups]

Can you give your source? Because else it's just another myth like microfractures.

[@cparker88]

Good stuff, thanks!

[@lucaaddei2952]

is this crag in the uk?

[@grandesalamame3421]

I gruess its in Spain, Peña Roja (Liber)

[@awakenvibing9463]

Question : Why the carabiners on the quickdraws face differently ????? I always wanted to ask this. Do they have to face like this or just as we buy them ? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@yoann8206]

For me it's more natural, you put the carabiner with the same hand AND MOTION as you clip the rope. Try it you'll understand

[@howtowithhank4791]

What crag is this??

[@quisdotcc]

Peña Roja in Costa Blanca

[@howtowithhank4791]

@@quisdotcc sweet, thanks!

[@dirtbagsinc.1689]

Yes I google translated the name on the wall. State of alarm sounds fun

[@muamerkapetanovic7940]

pro tips 👍👍

[@ahabkapitany]

Great presenter

[@TheGrumpyExplorer]

I hear of people using locking quickdraws on the first couple of bolts to avoid any sort of unclipping closer to the ground. Also when setting up a top anchor using quickdraws

[@markkNL]

The rotating of the carabiner in the sling causes crossloading though, not three-way loading. For three-way loading you, as the name suggest, load it on 3 points instead of the normal 2.

[@patrickcorbin1069]

As others have said, there's a big difference between impossible and improbable.

[@fireman2375]

So he spent a minute telling us how and why the direction of the upper carabiner is important, finishing with "it's really hard to get a rope to behave like this", and then dismisses the entire direction of the route topic with "it just doesn't happen"? It may be very unlikely, but when trying it with a rope, it's much easier to provoke than the first example, and paying attention there is an additional precaution when a backclip does occur...

[@mindblown42069]

“It doesn’t happen” was a reference to the bottom carabiner being unclipped by a falling climbers rope, not the top carabiner issue, which he said was minimal risk but better err on the side of caution

[@fireman2375]

@@mindblown42069 I know, but that's exactly my point: He says "It doesn't happen" to something that can be provoked with a certain regularity (under clinical conditions on the ground). Mind that, I haven't seen it happen in real life either, but it's not inconceivable to get some strange geometric constellation where it actually does happen... And he puts an extra bit of caution to something which I don't think anyone could actually provoke if they tried. Of course being on the side of caution is better, but that should apply to both cases, otherwise it's a double standard - and if a backclip were to occur, and no one notices it, having the gate placed in the correct direction would in most cases prevent the rope from unclipping then as well...

[@IsuckYoungBlood]

@@fireman2375 but he clearly said "You should not be satisfied with backclipping, that is something you should change". The thing is if you correctly clip all the time, the gate direction is much less important. Also because how many routes have you climbing costantly in one direction? Most of the time you're zig-zagging your way up the wall, so a moment you are on the "right" side of the gate, the next on the "wrong". So in general I would say correctly clipping is the number 1 safety rule, gate direction opposed to rope direction is more like best practice.

[@johannesschlueter3600]

He seems to have been climbing for a long time as he is not up to date with using quickdraws and the safety research concerning them (biners opposing, spine in direction of climbing). Thus should not be giving advice on using them. Also the video is misleading, at 4.22 a backclip is shown for explaining a different matter. Epic tv has higher standards, pls delete this or mark it as "how not to..."

[@largeformatlandscape]

Can you give some real world examples and data to back up your refutation?

[@johannesschlueter3600]

@@largeformatlandscape Do u see any company selling quickdraws with opposing biners? No, u don't, because although unlikely there are safety issues by opposing them. The safe way is to use them facing the same way and clipping with the spine facing in the direction of climbing. Every climbing manufacturer and every climbing organisation here in europe recomends it that way.

[@johannesschlueter3600]

@@largeformatlandscape en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quickdraw

[@Jerkal]

@@AndreaCalligarisClimbing when you're in the process of falling, there's no load on the rope until it catches on a carabiner. This is what he's saying when he says there's slack when you start to fall.

[@Jerkal]

@@johannesschlueter3600 the second photo has opposing carabiners.

[@patrykcwiertnia7768]

I would be very carefull when u are uploading the instruction video and the instructor say "it does not happen" o boy it does... its climbing and there are many occasions for quickdraw to unclip. Espesially when we made wrong clip (and even when we are doing everything ok). For me its a blunder a big blunder

[@ClimbingADK]

Get a better backup knot on that double bowline, that aside, awesome video!

[@johannessporer]

For what reason?

[@hernangimenez3342]

@@johannessporer Although bowlines are strong enough to be our linking knot between the rope and the harness, they are easy to become loose and untied if they are not under tension, so they require an extra safety knot to prevent them becoming undone while climbing (and thus not putting tension on the rope). That's why double 8 is the safest knot if done properly.

[@johannessporer]

@@hernangimenez3342 I think a backup knot for the double bowline is no must...it's true what you say but even in the very unlikely event that the 'followed through' part gets fully undone while climbing you still have a standart bowline which will still hold you. Still I agree that it can add extra security, for me personaly it's just a bit over the top. I still tie one sometimes tho when my tail is to long anyway...

[@johannesschlueter3600]

A standard bowline knot can open itself up of loaded sideways and has lead to deaths before while being used as a tying in knot. It is not safe to use for this application or anywhere in climbing, really. A double bowline on the other hand is a very good and safe tying in knot and has the advantage of being easily undoable even after heavy falls. The only disadvantage is that it is not as easily checked as the figure of eight, which is why the figure of eight is to be prefered, especially for beginners. The european climbing associations only recommend using one of these two knots for tying in, so they both are safe. Here in Europe it is with the

[@networkbike543]

Very well presented but I'm staying put on the sofa.

[@zraybroske2416]

So Topher Donahue is wrong? Cause he wrote the book on these subjects. Folks, follow the AMGA. PERIOD. Don’t listen to anyone else.

[@montecristo2748]

Thank you for trying to keep everyone safe- but saying things as concretely as "it's physically impossible, it doesn't happen" is how people die. There's no reason not to take a few extra precautions in case Murphy's Law decides to prove you wrong one day.

[@michaelblowers6823]

Saying it doesn't matter about gates in or out on your harness...how could you say something so controversial yet so brave?

[@mikecallaghan7943]

???

[@michaelblowers6823]

@@mikecallaghan7943 a meme friendo

[@Jesse-xu6wx]

Climbing Daily, I hold you to a higher standard than this. Please delete this video, these methods are outdated. I don’t need to argue about this in the crag when my partner has seen this video and my life is on the line. Climbing is dangerous enough. Thanks.

[@johannesschlueter3600]

Right u are! EpicTV, pls reconsider posting this not at all save "savety video".

[@Furansowakun]

？all he says is good

[@simoncraftXD]

Wow!😍😍😚💖💖💘