How to count "unquantized" beats? (Q+A)

[@Tsicky]

Imagine: You’re in a black void... you walk around a bit... you hear a voice in the distance... you walk towards it... you see a drum set... the voice is getting louder... you see a vague figure in the distance... as you walk closer the figure solidifies and the voice is crystal clear... Shawn is yelling 1 a let 2 a let 3 a let 4... you cry in happiness

[@benscott6396]

Internets busiest music theory melon

[@AndrewGordonBellPerc]

An app that I use (as a classical percussionist) is Time Guru. It has a feature which will randomly mute some clicks. What that forces you to do is to keep your own time internally and the metronome there is a check or test rather than a crutch that you rely on.

[@diannelovesyou]

Shawn is filling in for my craving of old Adam Neely content, keep it up!

[@EthanMckennaMusic]

Truth!

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Really great advice presented clearly, thanks! 🎶🎵👍🏻

[@caidenroberto9000]

i dont mean to be offtopic but does anyone know a tool to log back into an instagram account?? I somehow lost the account password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me

[@gunnerjesus4054]

@Caiden Roberto Instablaster ;)

[@caidenroberto9000]

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[@caidenroberto9000]

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[@gunnerjesus4054]

@Caiden Roberto glad I could help :D

[@SpanasyukO]

one cool exercise that i found to help improve keeping time without a metronome is to have a metronome that only hits the 1 and you have to figure out where the 2 3 and 4 are. Sort of like your doing most of the time keeping but the metronome checks in with you on the 1.

[@robbledot7290]

I like a met that’s one measure on, one measure off. You can even build it up to more than that if you want.

[@SpanasyukO]

@@robbledot7290 I found it's pretty difficult for me to keep the time for more than 2 measures. But once you get in the groove, you sort of find how long your beats need to be to line up with the metronome

[@Byzycx]

Another one is the one where the metronome hits the upbeat instead of the downbeat, or the metronome is on the "e" and the "a". Basically making yourself the "downbeat metronome".

[@Gonzo2707]

Byzycx

[@pietzsche]

The problem with that is you're open to rushing and dragging to hit the one even if you don't realise it. I like the one bar on, one bar off method, or having the click on the upbeats, it helps maintain consistent subdivisions as well as stopping you relying on the click.

[@bmcfarland96]

This will probably get lost in the comments, but as a violin player you can definitely use your mouth when you play. If you can't move your mouth enough to count beats out loud while you play, you need to adjust your posture and technique.

[@procarpenter1788]

Yeah, you're totally right. It's so hard though!

[@fatguy338]

As a singer (and from a piano background) if I'm practicing and trying to keep time (especially in wierd time signatures) I tap my chest from thumb to ring finger which is great for really fast subdivisions.

[@famitory]

personally I find audiating a metronome is distracting. instead, I audiate literally what I'm playing. it makes it very obvious where the differences are and how to correct them. it also makes it easy to get into the 'feel' on the same note, I prefer playing to a drum loop or percussion loop rather than a click when recording.

[@famitory]

a click is a rhythmic reference, and to me it makes sense to have your rhythmic reference contain the things you're wanting to reference. using a drum loop gives you more information to reference, and control over what information you're referencing.

[@onesyphorus]

9:07 You just said _"little bit of a"_ in a quintuplet.

[@mehmed6529]

wtf genius

[@mmmHardstyle]

ngl, I use this when counting quintuplets in my head now lol thank you for pointing this out.

[@Ed-Topo-108]

Interesting point about “feeling” it or “counting” it. I recommend non western approach to vocalise everything that’s being learnt.. on any instrument. Normal in Turkish/African/Indian systems. Once it’s learnt by voice it’s down to body mechanics and muscle memory. .

[@kdizzle51100]

At 1:22 I found this question really interesting, because I sing in a university choir and our director has us "count-sing" any new music we get for at least the first 2-3 weeks of having the music. He figures that the choir will more easily internalize our rhythms if we literally count them while we’re singing before adding lyrics. He would rather us sing correct rhythms and pitches than accurate lyrics (though diction is obviously important in singing, and the choir I’m in focuses a lot of time on diction after count-singing). I’ve found that this has been a super helpful way for me to imagine an internal metronome while I’m singing so that I can focus on memorizing text and accurate diction in practice and seemingly effortless singing in performance.

[@brenomorbelli1]

Questlove is in the house

[@dannygerous]

Questlove, you’re not in the house.

[@kirjian]

these videos are incredibly practical, thanks so much

[@KurtCollier]

a fun excercise to work out your internal clock, is to play a song you are very familiar with. Get the song going, then mute the song (take head phones off, or turn volume down) while letting the song continue. Keep count in your mind and keep with the beat as best you can. if you try to make it through a verse and a chorus, and then check by putting volume back up or put headphones back on when you expect a big transition in the song. You will be wrong a lot, but it is good to know if your internal clock is fast or slow, and what different moods can do to your internal clock.

[@axelandersson8327]

bro, this channel is so underrated

[@rickmcguiredrums418]

Thank you for your thoughts on the "just feel it" sentiment! It's similar to the people that think that learning music theory will make them less creative

[@deLeonGuitarStudio]

It's easy to count as a vocalist - you just count and give pitch to your counting, changing pitch at the appropriate time. On long held notes you just keep singing the same pitch as you count the beats. I used to do this all the time when I was learning to sight sing. Not sure why a singer would think they can't count while singing! You just substitute the lyrics temporarily with counting and once you have the rhythm solid, you add the lyrics back in. I've found the easiest way for me to count tuplets is to go up one level in terms of note duration, and count / feel that. So for example, in your example of quarter note triplets, I would just go up one level to half notes and clap on the half notes and then subdivide as needed and vocalize the tuplet. Your method is certainly very precise, but the problem is you are not really "feeling" the triplet quarter notes. It's like the difference between feeling 6/8 and 3/4 - your method forces you to feel it as 6/8 with every other eighth note being clapped, but you really want to be able to feel the 3/4. For someone who has no problem feeling evenly spaced notes, my method would be the easiest and fastest way to go I think! It doesn't require any brainwork and it really trains you to "feel" and internalize all the tuplets between any given two beats right off the bat. Anyways, I'm not putting down your method - I like it, and I think it would work better for beginning students who don't yet have a solid feel of rhythm. Thanks for the great videos on rhythm!

[@eliasleverato9373]

you're great, Shawn

[@joegoris2289]

Love your videos, hope you can keep making more.

[@flockafan96]

How do you remember what measure you’re in if you’re constantly just counting for example 1,2,3,4 and repeating the basic rhythm?

[@sixmonthssleep3057]

Love it Shawn, great video.

[@GabrielCaride]

Is there any equivalent of “the licc” but for drums...? Cause that’d be really cool haha

[@maximosgoulakos5582]

Gabriel Caride Music pornhub theme is my best guess

[@JoeMM5]

Perhaps the Animal drum fill? The straight round the toms end on a crash.

[@joelowry1323]

phil colins fill?

[@richard9858]

Amen break is my best guess

[@GabrielCaride]

Richard Yeah, definitely the Amen Break is a good example!

[@themandownstairs4765]

I have touched a drumset precisely twice in my life and both times in was kind of an unmitigated disaster. Nevertheless your videos are compelling and help me consider rhythm as an important part of playing my instrument, so thanks! You have a new subscriber.

[@kkingeling]

Inspiring! Love your videos!

[@SpanishLibertarian]

Thanks for this videos!!

[@BrunoVernay]

Yes at 7'10 look for a "Change mindset" and listen to the wonderful work and *voice* of Linda Rising.

[@uladzislaulazouski5558]

Thanks, Shawn

[@JulianFernandez]

The "just feel it" is not an excuse. Because "just feeling it" cames afters thousand of hours of listening. None of the guys that play the dilla thing actually counts it or try to play it as quintuplets. It´s a feel thing actually; the excuse is not listening to the records. Good content. Cheers!

[@ats1995]

Isn't his point that the work is already done then?

[@NZsaltz]

It depends on the song and drummer. While some drummers might not try to count it, I'm sure some others do. Literally counting quintuplets is just a different technique than feeling it, but neither is the right way to do it.

[@TheSquareOnes]

I took that as more of a jab directed at the drummer equivalent of the anti-music theory crowd that sees any attempt to study or learn musical concepts and techniques as "ruining the purity of true music that can only come from untainted creative freedom." I'm sure if there are people that think learning how chord progressions work is a sin against art then there are probably people that think learning how to count precisely is the same.

[@tipicoseisillo3230]

I start to play with counting, damn, soo dificult, but i fell how my timming and groove improve

[@raphaha1273]

happy counting!

[@josuegonzalez6032]

Counting has helped me a lot since i saw your video, can you do a video explaining how do you count loud nested tuplets, quintuplets, septuplets and all those "weird" subdivissions? Thanks

[@TheSquareOnes]

There are a lot of different methods but look up Indian konnakol as a really popular approach, they assign syllables to each grouping (like "Ta ka di mi ta ki da" is 7) that are designed to be easy to say quickly. There are a billion videos on it, I know Ben Levin has a great one but I think Shawn and Adam have both covered it as well.

[@christopherarcy2771]

You actually should be able to count while playing a violin or viola. It's a common misconception that you hold the violin with your chin, your chin is more of a point of contact for the sake of balance, but it shouldn't be responsible for holding up the instrument. Now, many people use their chins to hold the violin when they are doing something like making a page turn or tightening their bow, and there its reasonable as to not have to take the instrument down to do small adjustments. I think any violinist who is complaining they can't count while playing violin should take the time to practice doing so anyway, not just for improvement and rhythm, but to help relieve the large amount of tension holding the violin with the chin can cause.

[@xibbit6322]

Why do you count triplets 1 and uh wouldn’t that be an eighth note followed by two sixteenths? I count triplet one trip let

[@paulrose343]

Same! Every spot on the timeline has a name and .333 is “trip” and .666 is “let” --“and” is .5 and “uh” is .75. Alternating counts of triplets and the other rhythm: “One triplet two and uh 3 triplet 4 and uh” Counting them the same would be odd to me.

[@dr.layman1623]

Inward singing! Jack Black.. :)

[@drumming.7753]

your drum solo plis ❤

[@simonbrocklebank9863]

Great video thanks. My main issue is being able to handle changes in subdivision and mentally juggle rests within a rhythm. Say switching between broken 5-lets and 1/16ths and sextuplets in a hihat pattern. Any thoughts ?

[@elementsofphysicalreality]

As a guitarist, when I am playing 16th note triplets, I count 1-2-3 or takita or some form of that. I might even count the shape of a triangle. My brain will know what I’m talking about. Why do drummers prefer to count the quarter notes?

[@tomhenderson6673]

I think there's an additional way to make counting easier if your brain is too full: just count "one, one, one, one" or a nonsense sound like "chik, chik, chik". Count for real later, having trained the voice.

[@sharadacharya4924]

Since bass is the best place to specify rhythm, shouldn't be the sound of the mind metronome?

[@miked7427]

At fast tempos, I would imagine you would count the the basic subdivision? Meaning if I am doing 32nd note triplets, I am not able to voice every beat. Or, is it best to learn some type of "Indian" rhythm language to be able to say out loud 32nd triplets or for that matter, 32nd note 16ths? Would you recommend slowing it way down so that you can articulate every beat, then when up to speed you can sense all the individual beats, but you just count , I guess, only the quarter notes? Thanks! Much appreciate your videos.

[@remyzsacka8670]

Hey hope you found your system since then but usually when playing sped up 32nd notes I’m feeling either the 8th when it is really fast or the 16th note when I want to vary my accents a bit

[@cameronhallett4268]

Is this counting thing something drummers should practise at all skill levels? It feels like this isn’t something I should prioritise when I’ve got so many other gaps in my playing that need my attention. I’m worried that trying this method will make other parts of my playing even harder to develop than they already are.

[@daviddelemont]

In these difficult times, is it possible that you talk about Jamus, jamlink, jamtaba 2, jamkazam etc etc? is any really reliable?

[@sharadsemilo]

How do you count if there are 5 sub divisions, what syllables to use? 1 e & a 5?

[@mattcreighton2352]

Theres a thing called takadimi - "ta ka di mi" is 4 subdivisions. "ta ke da" is three (easier to say than ta ka di). Five would be "ta ka di mi ti". Six has a "ve" in there somewhere ...? There's some weird theory behind it - you're supposed to associate the syllables which have similar names and it makes it easier to learn strange rhythms, or something. But anyway you can say it much quicker than "1 e & a", haha!

[@depressio5395]

what if I sing and play guitar

[@gilbert4892]

I thought this was dade for a second.

[@zedpwner]

My method is remember what to play not how long it lasts

[@ronaldo.araujo]

I have a question that could be for you or someone that could answer: how can you count Meshuggah's 'Obsidian', from the REMASTERED version of the Nothing Album, not the first version, it is regular.

[@pietzsche]

it's 7/8 and 4/4 so 1-&-2-&-3-&-4-1-&-2-&-3-&-4 and then just standard 4s

[@pietzsche]

*no & on the 4 in 7/8 btw

[@blackychouette]

I can hear a train ( chaka chaka chaka) over any beat. It helps me a lot but confuses the heck out of my drummer..

[@firkinja]

This is cool, but can you play Backpfeifengesicht in one week without transcription?

[@klaasbil8459]

Unfortunately, sound and image are out of sync in this video, which is particularly detrimental for the subject.

[@MSkwar]

"how to count quantized beats?" "no"

[@7tomi8]

Thanks as always

[@arjunchakraborty2206]

_Trying my best to understand this..._

[@MuchasDistracciones]

i just cant lmfao

[@sharadsemilo]

If I have rhythm that I don't know the key signature of, how do I figure this? I've noticed this becomes difficult if there are offbeats. I'm a guitarist

[@pietzsche]

You need to transcribe it I'd guess then work it out from there

[@yo1ma2man3]

Hey Shawn. Recently i found a drummer by the name of Jaki Liebezeit, to be more exact i was listening to a live performance of Burnt Friedman & Jaki Liebezeit. It was really strange and both mind bogling seeing him set up the drum kit in such an unconventional way. I was wondering maybe you could share some thoughts about this topic, anything that comes to your mind will do. Here’s the link to the live performance: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nmfaaH2fjLejrKM

[@mengjiexin290]

I’m trying this exercise but soon start counting like 1 and 3 and 5 and 4 and then I lost count...I need to call my math teacher

[@lifeezane3526]

Is clapping your teeth a good idea? thats what ive been doing... that helps me a lot!!

[@MrSammy888sa]

I’d say no because that’ll do some permanent damage to the teeth in my experience. If you have a night guard go for it lol

[@onesyphorus]

@@MrSammy888sa I second this . unless it's very light

[@lifeezane3526]

onesyphorus Ὀνησίφορος it’s very light I just make them « touch » I had bruxism and it’s really not the same thing...

[@onesyphorus]

@@lifeezane3526 Yeah. I also do it myself, even without even thinking about it.

[@TheRandomSandwich]

twoset bout to roast this guys imaginary bowhold

[@birdie4623]

I read somewhere that your heart beat matches the tempo of the music you are listening to. Is this true? And if it is, are most musicians aware of it?

[@matchgripmatchgrip3712]

it's not. otherwise we would all die playing a ballad lol.