How to: F-Body Pinion Angle/Panhard Bar/LCA Adjustment *1982-2002*

[@kevinstude3377]

“Math is Hard” 😂

[@Greenlightfilming]

Lol, I'll be honest. Math isn't a gift of mine.

[@Greenlightfilming]

You won the decals! Email me your shipping info at [e-mail]

[@kevinstude3377]

@@Greenlightfilming will do, thanks!

[@gearheadnation9254]

It's awesome to see current fbody builds to keep me motivated on my 2001 firebird build! Your WS6 looks badass!

[@Greenlightfilming]

Sweet, thanks bud! Keep going on your and in time you'll have a badass ride. It's just time and money right? lol

[@martinez1701a]

Got a 99 trans am ws6 also I built a cammed LM7 with 10.20:1 compression when the LS1 ate a few bearings I also built a modified 4l60e to hold more power now im just fixing paint im about to respray my hood and rear bumper (bad clearcoat) Gotta keep these cars alive they're beautiful machines.

[@douglastaylor638]

I have a friend who worked for GM during the years of the f body building he has shared a lot of experience with me on my 99 ws6 with a wsq hood I do love your videos thanks for sharing

[@brently205]

Great to see the WS6 back on there. Always fun to have the kids ‘helping’ in the garage. The car looks great and I continue to be very jealous of those wheels... another great vid.

[@Greenlightfilming]

Lol! My kid did a good job of keeping me going here. Thanks for checking it out, and I'm happy to have the WS6 back on here too.

[@keilylmm6377]

Good Saturday evening my friend. Great tutorial on pinion angle. When I finish the BMR adjustable suspension on my 94 trans am. It'll definitely have to set the correct pinion angle 👍🇺🇲..

[@redslate]

For anyone looking at getting an adjustable panhard bar, consider a Watt's linkage instead. It will run you ~$500 more than a trackbar, but it is *well* worth the additional cost. Traction and stability are *substantially* better with a Watt's link. The best way to describe the difference between a panhard bar and a Watt's linkage is that sharp turns feel like you're gliding effortlessly with a Watt's, smooth, clean stable turns that you can take at even higher speeds and still remain planted. It's not going to be quite as smooth as an IRS, and you will *feel* every imperfection (bump, dip, slant) in the road, but your rear will remain planted. Combine this with an upgraded rear differential, and you'll have a killer setup that competes well against modern designs.

[@Greenlightfilming]

Excellent info here. I would consider going to a watts link setup if I got more serious about autocrossing or road racing with the car someday. For now I'll stick with the stock suspension style. Good suggestion.

[@jonsingle1614]

To center the rear....the suspension must be loaded....putting the rear end on Jack stands is a great way to do it...when adjusting the body will freely move left or right to adjust center....try it

[@Mattlt1]

That twist Jack was a slick trick!

[@Greenlightfilming]

It works really well! It's surprisingly hard to move it by hand when you are doing this. Seems like s pretty safe way to do it.

[@Mattlt1]

@@Greenlightfilming I just went through all that putting my sub frame connectors on, that would have made a huge difference. I used ratchet straps lol

[@Greenlightfilming]

@@Mattlt1 lol, you have to do what you have to do sometimes. It worked, didn't it?

[@bhcamaro2002]

Literally need to adjust my panhard bar this spring! Another good vid!

[@Greenlightfilming]

Perfect timing! The PHB is a super easy one to install and adjust.

[@bhcamaro2002]

I'm gonna be getting a umi adjustable by spring. I cheaped out years ago with my spohn panhard (non adjustable)

[@kareemrichards8635]

Wow, that's a task. But you know how to handle it. Well done.

[@Greenlightfilming]

It's not all that big of a job to be honest, just need to put some time aside and do it smart. I could have trimmed the video WAY down, but didn't want to leave any info out I thought might be helpful.

[@batsweezy]

Nice video. I now need to go double check my rear since I put in a 9" last year.

[@Greenlightfilming]

Good thing to check for sure, it doesn't take much time!

[@tenehaglendening9246]

I just ordered a bunch of umi suspension parts for my 2000 z28. Cant wait going to be a project for me an my 2 children.

[@Greenlightfilming]

Sweet! Hope you have a good time doing it all. These cars are a lot of fun. Enjoy the memories with them!

[@marcuscheko2226]

damn dude , .......i bet your a welder ....just guessing , .....i had a friend that use to build ultra-light aircrafts , i learned a lot abot " X=Y" and center of gravity etc , i understood what you've done here , but i cant quit driving my bird long enough to do this , ....lol....weathers to good in west Texas ....63 today ....we had snow one day last week , was outside grilling steaks next day .....if your a welder i cant get you a job in west Texas even with pandemic closing things ...lots to ask about this but I'm afraid its not on this upload , thanks for taking time and your son helping out was a real joy , i recall that with mine , ....now he is in military 9 years .....God bless and keep up the good work my friend Marcus in west Texas

[@Greenlightfilming]

I've done a lot of welding, yes. Been a few years but I went to school for it. A lot of this stuff was a good refresher for me and I had to do a lot of homework on it before doing a lot of it. I'm sure someday we will move somewhere that's warmer all year. Been in the teens and below zero at night here for the last week or so. Winter gets old fast. Once my son gets a little older he will spend more time in the shop with me. Good memories for sure!!

[@marcuscheko2226]

@@Greenlightfilming figures , my freid was a welder and he was pretty anal about figures , " i still hear him saying " by god , if its not the same measurement on both sides , it aint square " , we spent like 3 days getting a fixed wing squired ....lol....but i understand how all that plays into what you did .....glad your doing ok , ...marcus in west texas

[@Greenlightfilming]

@@marcuscheko2226 Lol he was right! If it's not square, it's not square. People like that are good at making things "perfect". I think doing things that way is the only way for the most part. You end up with a quality outcome when you are all done.

[@themrsaturn110]

I've been putting off correcting my rear end sense I swapped in the rear, panhard, lcas and relocations! excited for this

[@Greenlightfilming]

It's not that bad of a job. You can do it!

[@themrsaturn110]

@@Greenlightfilming Just finished watching the video, it seems way more straightforward than I was making it. Ill have to get after it when im not swamped with school!

[@kurthodges1826]

Thanks your video helped me get my car straight

[@Greenlightfilming]

Awesome. Glad to hear it

[@GamerronTv]

man those rims are sweeet!!!!!

[@atiklean7876]

love your firebird vids...if you could make more how to vids it would mean a lot to myself as im building a 97 formula bird

[@Greenlightfilming]

There will be more coming, and there's a ton on the channel going back for years. Stay tuned!

[@roseheart7227]

Hey guys,love the channel, you all ROCK and I always try to look you all up just to see if you all have had or done what I'm doing to MY F-Body. I have a firebird formula 2002 NHRA edition,just had it stolen and they couldn't handle her and she ended up in a neighbor's yard few miles down the road. Got her back and she's a lil messed up but repairable,no major frame damage or airbag deployment but I want to check and make sure the alignment is still correct,had it done at a shop when I could afford it but with COVID I do not have the extra cash anymore.SO get off my "OLD ASS" and DIY,lol.Any help would be appreciated!

[@Greenlightfilming]

Good luck with your car! Sorry to hear it got stolen. That's some real lowlife stuff. You'll get it back and better than ever in no time. Just have to do it a piece at a time!

[@jimmy21480_midnight_special]

I never thought to use the harmonic balancer as the reference point. Wouldv'e made it a little easier when i did mine had i known. Anyway, great tip! thanks!

[@Greenlightfilming]

I hadn't used it prior to this either. It makes sense now that I'm aware of it though.

[@poopstain691]

Thanks for the video. Bad ass. I have a 93 camaro with full bmr crap I put in . But in need adjustment.

[@Greenlightfilming]

The same idea applies to toye BMR suspension. You can dial your setup in too.

[@taleoftwobirds7155]

Thanks for posting, i'll be using this procedure on both my '96s

[@Greenlightfilming]

Sweet, glad to hear it might help!

[@mitchtavio]

If your wheels are staggered size then won’t your wheelbase measurement be off by measuring from the rim edge to edge vs centre to centre?

[@allenortega9672]

Nice work. Very jealous of the appearance of your car compared to my Z28. Of note, based on recommendations, when I put my Spohn trailing arms on my car I upped the torque on the joints to 100 ft. lbs. and it helped get rid of some of the noise back there.

[@Greenlightfilming]

Interesting, I know that the only think with a factory torque spec of 100lb/ft is the torque arm mounting bolts on the differential. Wonder if there's any downside to overtorquing the LCA bolts.

[@allenortega9672]

@@Greenlightfilming Well, I saw comments on it on LS1tech and didn't see an issue. Did it two years ago and no problems.

[@TheSirChicken]

Did swapping out the Hiend Joints on both ends of the LCA to a Poly and Hiend system help the drivetrain noise you mentioned at the beginning?

[@Greenlightfilming]

Yes, it was quieter after. There is nothing like a stock car but better than heim/heim.

[@transam4555]

Very good video amigo, when I get all my parts in I will be following this video again. I might get a little lost in the math part but I'm sure we will close to centered on all corners.

[@Greenlightfilming]

Thanks man. It's not difficult, you can do it. Not much math necessary. If you can run a tape measure you can do it.

[@transam4555]

@@Greenlightfilming so all my parts are in and I'm back at this video for a refresher course did your wheels sit flush with your quarter panels after making the adjustments on the panhard rod with the wheels off

[@Greenlightfilming]

@@transam4555 not all wheels are the same, it's why a plumb bob is the best way to verify. Measure from each axle hub and adjust accordingly to find the "center".

[@Superkid778]

I lowered my 02 T/A and tried to center the axle but could never get it right.. I’m not happy with the car right now and will go full bolt on suspension soon and using this video I’ll be able to get it right.. thank you

[@Greenlightfilming]

If you are running the stock LCA and PHB, there's no way you'd be able to get things square again. If you are buying parts, I'd highly recommend you get lower control arm relocation brackets too. You won't be able to get your LCA's parallel with the ground being it's lowered.

[@Superkid778]

@@Greenlightfilming I have the bmr adjustable panhard but that’s it and that’s where I messed up.. I’ll add and do exactly what you did and maybe it will fix the ride quality.. thanks again

[@2ndAmendProtector]

Great video. I'm interested in your rear inner wheel wells. What cutting did you do to fit wider tires? I see a lot of your rear inner wells are gone and no bump stops. I too need to make room for 335 tires on 18 x 12.5 rims. I have offset LCA bushing kit from UMI and a smaller diameter set of LCAs. They should give me the room I need not to rub the tire. I just need to get these inner wells out of the way. BIG F'IN Hammer mod doesn't seem as if it'll be enough but maybe, I haven't spent any time smashing them with a hammer yet. I have 315's now and they don't rub at all.

[@redrumss3464]

I’ve got an 02 SS slp 6spd car, I’m wondering what lowering springs you have… mine is way to slammed on eibachs

[@Greenlightfilming]

Mine also has eibach lowering springs and it's too low now. I'm getting some issues now that the rear springs have sagged some.

[@TakeAGuessWhatsNext]

What's the name of that grease your putting on the bushing side

[@Dadeo6171]

Is it my imagination or does adjusting the pinion raise or lower the rear end of the car, effecting the rear ride height between the center of the wheel and the bottom of the fender lip?

[@ChrisBlevins-wj4mc]

What width tires and wheel offset are you running

[@Greenlightfilming]

Info at 2:00 in this video. I don't recall off the top of my head. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f53coXx4bbxlnck

[@GamerronTv]

i know those are weld rims but what size are you running and tire size ... im looking for rims and tires for my 94 formula ... cant tell from angle are those staggerd? i have the stock rims on now and dont want to loose much torque... with changing diameter of wheel size much

[@gimpo312]

is that wheelbase measure of 101+ based on stock size wheels? I have C6 ZO6 wheels on my 4th gen need to do this whole process. great video by the way

[@Greenlightfilming]

Make sure you drop a comment! The comment with the most likes will get a UMI Performance decal pack mailed out to them after 7 days has passed of the video being live. Good luck!

[@abbas674]

What size are your wheels on the front I got a steal on some used rear wheels I just need the specs for the front thank you

[@tenehaglendening9246]

Have you considered putting ctsv brake upgrade on your ws6

[@Greenlightfilming]

Yes, I have. So far the reason I haven't done something like that is because of the total cost involved. If I got a killer deal on a full CTSV conversion kit I would probably do it.

[@KNS_Racing]

where did you buy your 12 bolt from? it looks like a strange 12 bolt judging by the logos on the hubs?

[@Greenlightfilming]

It's a strange 12 bolt, yes. I bought it used.

[@leonardcherry1314]

I would like to get the panhard bar and lower control arms that you took off. How much?

[@Greenlightfilming]

I'm actually putting those on the Iroc. They aren't for sale.

[@dny08]

Awesome work! On the control arms there’s 3 settings to mount them top, middle, bottom. What does each performs?

[@Greenlightfilming]

The three settings are for setting your lower control arm angle. Mine is in the middle.

[@leonardcherry1314]

When you lengthened the lower control arms did it change pinion angle?

[@Greenlightfilming]

It would change it ever so slightly if I had to guess. You have to imagine that when you "lengthen" or shorten the LCAs, the rear axle will rotate up or down a hair unless the torque arm snout slides in and out of the bushing easily.

[@JC-hh7dk]

I really enjoy your vids .... I have a 1997 Trans Am and its nice to see 4th Gens getting some love. I did want to ask about the tires/wheels you have. Can you detail the tires sizes and if you did any mods? I'm particularly curious about the fronts and how wide you were able to get without spacers, longer studs or rolling the fenders. thanks again... and love the Vette....

[@Greenlightfilming]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/f53coXx4bbxlnck ^^^^The best answer I can give you is checking out the video I'll link above. I didn't have to do any wheel stud extensions, or change anything at all in the front end. My car is lowered, but I don't have any rubbing issues at all. The rear fenders were rolled before I purchased the car, but I don't think I'd need to do it to be honest.

[@chaplaincrabtree6881]

I have a set of turbo headers I used with a gt45 on my single turbo thirdgen. Use that with a blow through carb and made 722 whp on e85. Went LS and have no use for the sbc stuff any more. Where are you located?

[@Greenlightfilming]

I'm in Northern WI. Looking at the CXRACING 82-92 kit for the car. I dont suppose you saw my newest video?... cant be a coincidence you mentioned this lol

[@brad9023]

Was there any whine in the rear end when installed? What fluid did you use?

[@gadgetdeez7069]

Heres my "beef" with aligning pinion angle with engine angle as a reference. On a leaf spring or 4 link car, that may work fine. The diff more or less travels with the pinion parallel to the ground with some fixed angular offset. Granted with a 4 link there is some pinion angle loss through bump depending on IC but i digress. The torque arm suspensions do not follow this rule! Torque arm suspensions have a well defined pivot in space! It's the front torque arm mount. If the diff moves up or down, the pinion angle will ALWAYS point at the same height above the torque arm front mount. This means we have a fixed pinion angle loss in bump and gain in rebound. So if i'm negative and i load the drivetrain in acceleration the car likely goes into squat to varying extents. This now makes your pinion angle WORSE or MORE negative as the suspension compresses and the snout of the diff is rotated downward relative to the engine. In this scenario i'd imagine you'd want a near 0 degree pinion angle relative to the trans. However you must have at least 0.5 degrees of operating angle in the u-joint to circulate lube otherwise you run into bearing hammer where the needle bearings will literally carve ruts in the cross of the u-joint. I've seen it a couple times. Problem is this is all ever just theory. With todays tech, you'd imagine someone would put some angular sensors on a model and plot the rotational angular difference of the driveshaft between different pinion angles at different heights to see how it all plays together. Ask 20 people how to set pinion angle and you'll get 20 different answers. A lot of times however you get the blanket reply of 2⁰ down from engine/trans. However different suspensions have different requirements. A lot of bmw and mercedes, and now newer camaros, ctsv, gto etc run 0⁰ because of the type of driveshafts they are running. No 1 size fits all is all i'm saying.

[@scoobydoodrew4209]

possible to adjust an alignment rack?

[@jeffborud3443]

Did you check the diagonal measurements from the k-member like umi suggested? I’m curious what point on the k-member they use for that measurement.

[@Greenlightfilming]

I did not. This was something I learned from their tech support after I had already done my alignment. You could do it from the same subframe mounting bolt on the drivers and passengers side, to the rear LCA mounting point on the opposite side of the rear end if that makes sense. You could really pick anything that should be "square".

[@jeffborud3443]

@@Greenlightfilming So it’s more of a way to check for square than actually setting the wheelbase. I thought perhaps there was a reference for the theoretical centreline of the front wheels.

[@marianogarcia3025]

Nice ..::: where are you located… I would like for you to do this on my car

[@phillipjaques4640]

Grease them bushings lol.. thats what she said!! 😆🤣😂 great video man wheels look nice.

[@Greenlightfilming]

lol thanks bud

[@pacolicious]

Thanks was waiting for that haha

[@Greenlightfilming]

👍👍👍

[@timothythomas1737]

I was always told if your going to track the car you want -3 to -4 deg. Difference from the output of trans.

[@Greenlightfilming]

I have heard similar, and that was probably more true with a leafspring type of car, or a car with worn out rubber bushings in the rear suspension that would have pretty bad "axle wrap" on a manual transmission car. The tighter your rear suspension (lower control arms/torque arm) are, the less negative degree difference you need to figure into the pinion angle. It was bad enough back in the day that you'd install pinion snubbers and "slapper bars" lol. In my case, I could probably get away with -1.5* to -2* of pinion angle, because my rear axle housing probably won't rotate nearly as much as a stock suspension type of car would if that makes sense.

[@keilylmm6377]

My 94 trans am is going to have full BMR adjustable suspension on it. I started the front already. So pinion angle is a 3 step process....step 1= panhard bar proper adjustment with the panhard bar relocation brackets....step2= adjustable rear lower control arms...step3= pinion angle...🇺🇲👍...

[@Greenlightfilming]

That's the order I would do it in if I did it again. It takes some time but none if it is "hard" to do if you do it smart. BMR parts should be no different. Not only that, BMR has a killer video about pinion angle. It's in the video description if you wanted to check it out.

[@keilylmm6377]

@@Greenlightfilming thanks for the info my friend 👍... have a safe weekend buddy 🇺🇲

[@keilylmm6377]

@@Greenlightfilming good Tuesday afternoon my friend. Did you ever sell your old rims and tires off your TA? Hit me up and let me know thanks Keith....

[@Greenlightfilming]

@@keilylmm6377 yes, the old wheels are long gone

[@keilylmm6377]

@@Greenlightfilming ok thanks.. what vehicle is going to be in your neck video?

[@toothlessreptiles9283]

What rear brake rotors are those? Thank you!

[@Greenlightfilming]

They are from stoptech

[@toothlessreptiles9283]

@@Greenlightfilming what car are they for? I have a 91 camaro with an s60 right now but I can't figure out which rotors are on it. They look exactly like yours. I'm trying to buy new rotors. Thank you.

[@Greenlightfilming]

@@toothlessreptiles9283 they are for a 2000 Trans Am

[@beezball]

Sooo you were at like 100.8-9 inches for your wheelbase. How much do you think it can be safely shortened to, 100.5, 100.3. Just curious on your opinion.

[@Greenlightfilming]

People shorten their wheelbase to improve turning radius. I can't imagine a big downside in shortening it (road race/autox use). You can probably go til you get wheel rubbing issues.

[@SS-ny4pt]

Where did you get the blocks for the front wheels?

[@Greenlightfilming]

I made them out of some scrap lumber

[@Mean93FoxGT]

Name of band and song 🤟You have a great taste in music 👊

[@Greenlightfilming]

Info is in the desctiption

[@michaelm3381]

Skillet!

[@Mean93FoxGT]

@@michaelm3381 Definitely not Skillet

[@Mean93FoxGT]

@@Greenlightfilming Thanks

[@jamichelbraden1530]

What size wheel

[@Greenlightfilming]

18x10 front and 18x11 rear

[@abbas674]

What size are your wheels in the front

[@Greenlightfilming]

18x10

[@abbas674]

@@Greenlightfilming Thanks for the reply do you know what size is your back spacing

[@jpablocebayos6508]

Así que podrían ser las barras traceras , tengo Camaro 1988 le cambié el diferencial por un positivo de 97 , y má ceja tracera del piloto rosa en la llanta , ya me ti resortes nuevos y tornillos ,

[@maldo72]

Not sure why you did not replace just one end with the poly and kept the double adjustable arms and panhard bar would make adjusting the axle 10000 times easier

[@Greenlightfilming]

Ideally you'll only have to adjust it once and be done with it. I don't think you can get polyurethane "ends" to replace a rod end with from UMI. I could be wrong about that. It was just easier to replace all three parts. It's all black now, and should be a little quieter. The red parts are going on the Iroc-Z.

[@lee161a]

Mankandy, aka Garage Fab, does a better job then BMR of explaining drive line angle setup on his channel. Give it a look.

[@PH_78]

Adjusting rear axle by measuring it from front wheels like this does'nt work on 4th gen f-body (or any car...). First you have to make sure that everything in front is PERFECT. Crossmember, steering angles etc. because all that will affect where the front wheel is. By adjusting front caster the wheel center will move as when adjusting toe angle. As in video, if you adjust toe first (to IN), you probably make wheelbase longer by that .1" so the wheelbase was close to correct already... And if toe was that far wrong then what about other angles...? Actually you even can't measure toe angle with string because camber and wheel width will affect track width, and by that, angle of the string.

[@Tx_penguino]

Racecar spelled backwards is still Racecar

[@Greenlightfilming]

Solid comment. lol

[@joe00camaross]

Couldn’t be better timing on this video! I have to pull the trigger on either...rebuilding my stock 10 bolt, buying a Dana S60 or a MWC fab 9. It all depends on when Biden makes it rain with that stimulus loot 💰 LOL

[@Greenlightfilming]

Lol!!!

[@jimmy21480_midnight_special]

one vote for the S60. I love mine!

[@joe00camaross]

@@jimmy21480_midnight_special it sounds like the best option for me as I don’t plan to track the car. Only bad thing I’ve heard about S60 is the weight.

[@jimmy21480_midnight_special]

@@joe00camaross yeah it's significantly heavier, but infinitely stronger. I drag race with mine. I launch at 5,000RPM on slicks. Check out my videos if you have a few extra minutes.

[@joe00camaross]

@Shaun thank you Shaun. a friend of mine has a 00 WS6 lowered with a 12 bolt and he said it bangs on the body sometimes . My car is lowered on Strano springs, Koni’s, BMR control arms and panhard bar. I’ve owned my car for 20 years and want to try and make this purchase for longevity.

[@chrisrich2828]

Forget all the talk what’s up with that zero turn

[@Greenlightfilming]

Lol, that's what I'm talking about

[@Mean93FoxGT]

I want stickers

[@Greenlightfilming]

Best of luck to you!

[@stevenhare7632]

I don't want stickers.

[@Greenlightfilming]

Lol

[@Mike-ou7yv]

When measureing wheelbas