How to find the DEALER INVOICE price of a car, and how to use it in negotiations with a dealer

Dealer invoices here: community.yaamember.com/c/dea...
Stay connected with Ray and I here: / shefska & / rasisjaz
So you're thinking of buying a new car. What's the first thing you should look for to help you with your negotiations? The dealer's invoice. Ray explains how you can get it, how to interpret it, and what it really shows you.
If you like this video, please let us know in the comments below!

[@CarEdge]

Not only did Zach and I talk about dealer invoices... I even wrote a little something for those of you who don't want to look or listen to us (I don't blame you): yourautoadvocate.com/guides/dealer-invoice/

[@briantracy1324]

My stealership in the 90's used to show invoices to customers ,, not factory invoices but invoices from the parent of the dealership... They used all the same fonts and formats ,, only disclosure it wasn't factory was a line at very bottom or top which always seemed to be cut off by the copy machine. Funny ,, it was always 4-5% above the real one.

[@alanmonarchi1411]

MSRP and invoice prices are made up #s! Which is why there are holdbacks. Anything to keep the #s a mystery and consumers overpaying.

[@treasurestars5552]

@@briantracy1324 adiaà

[@micco6020]

How much are holdbacks in general and in the high range?

[@bryanmitchell5728]

Kill the dealership. Send the car straight to me like Tesla!!!!!!!!

[@sonsofliberty3081]

I had a dealer for my wife's jeep volunteer the invoice straight up. He said we don't haggle, it's 500 dollars over invoice and that's it. The dealer I use normally usually post the invoice price for everyone to see.

[@vstyle1990]

Please talk about used car prices! Thank you

[@beekaye1496]

Love the Channel and all the things you guys are putting out. I used some of your tactics plus threw in my Disable Veteran to really get a good fair price for them to make a small profit. It took three different dealers to honor everything finally settling with one. Glad I watch your channel

[@barringtonlittle1903]

Just found you guys today b/c I'm in the market for a new car. Not only do I love the valuable information, but its cool to see the relationship between father and son. Reminds me a lot of me and my dad.

[@kevace1985]

Yes I agree, definitely would love to see a video on the best way to gauge a used car price.....

[@ga20904]

You both are great and your chemistry is amazing. Thank you for all that you do to educate your audience on the car buying process.

[@cjn8730]

Great work guys. Learning more everyday. A couple of suggestions for your viewers. First, to make the buying process easier, ask the sales person / closer / finance manager to leave the office for 15 to 20 minutes while you look over the numbers. But beware, they are always listening. Pick up their desk phone and hang it up again or unplug it completely. You will be amazed to see how fast someone comes back into their office to see what the "technical" problem is. Also snap pictures of the documents to compare against the final numbers later. Additionally, take a picture of the VIN number of the vehicle that you actually test drive. They may have an identical vehicle that's been in the inventory longer and that's the one you will end up with in the final documents. That bait and switch actually happened to me when I was purchasing a car for my son in Portland Oregon. They denied the switch until I showed him the picture of the VIN number of the car we actually drove. We walked on that one. Have a great day.

[@CarEdge]

CJ, In all my years I was never exposed to a dealership where they eavesdropped on customer conversations. That is not to say that there aren't dealerships out there that wouldn't do, I just never worked for one and I never would.

[@bootchumbley1766]

If it is an exact vehicle, who cares

[@grapplerguy2007]

@@bootchumbley1766 read what he typed real realllll slow

[@acidwizard6528]

@@bootchumbley1766 There could have been a defect from the factory on the car you didn't drive. Even though you got to test drive a car that's the same year, model, trim, etc. the one they sell you might have an electrical problem or poorly assembled brakes or whatever. It's always good to test drive the exact car you will be buying.

[@lauramester5741]

These series of videos are the best. Level and measured. Tons of information. Everyone should watch.

[@tommycop284]

You guys are so informative and I just want to commend you on listening to your subscribers because I left a comment yesterday on how you didn’t talk about used cars in the subject of a fair initial offer and you mentioned that you realized you didn’t talk about used cars. Thanks again and I look forward to your video on used car initial offer

[@sdchev01]

I enjoy every bit of content you produce. I am thinking about replacing my 2015 Chrysler 200C AWD, which I bought having 2,100 miles on its odometer over 4 years ago. I am learning which mistakes I made when purchasing the 200, and that is such an eye-opener.

[@samuelorozco3439]

I did an extensive amount of research on the car I wanted to purchase and found a nearby and (mostly) trusted dealership that I've worked with before. I negotiated what I considered to be a good price and the car is in very good condition (based on my non-mechanic review LOL). Then, I revisited all the websites I had used to research the car and found their prices to be about $900 more expensive (internet price, mind you). I suddenly got suspicious of the price I paid - was I being sold a crap car that had a much lower price because of some bad reason. Then I used the Edmunds TMV and it's like smack-dab in the range of what I ended up negotating down to. Thank GOD, lol. Thanks for the tip, guys! - No Longer Paranoid

[@johnrea2]

Another hit by team Shefska!! Thanks for all the info you guys give. When I’m ready to buy I’m definitely going with Your Auto Advocates. Thanks. Team Rad!

[@mellecompte4163]

RE: USED CARS I heard market values for used cars went out the window since authorities like Kelly Blue Book were purchased by the same corporations that also deal in used cars. I'd love to see you address this in your video on used cars.

[@tommydo961]

27k kkb value in 2018 accord at the same time Brand new 2020 is also 27k msrp. All the dealerships around me keep telling about kbb bs value.

[@losersquadhd1234]

@@tommydo961 True but now that new 27k accord is going for 35k easy or more so used is still cheaper but its all bs.

[@billmcroberts6566]

Yes on more used car buying tactics. Very informative.

[@ericgagnon2913]

Another great video guys, really love the bantering back-n-forth between father and son. Yes, a video on used car pricing and how to negotiate a good price on a used and a CPO car at the dealership

[@NickVolcom]

CPO negotiation would be huge

[@commonsenseoverall7627]

CPO is a waste of money. They dont do anything special to the vehicles. You are essentially buying an extended warranty on it

[@jeffpalmer9542]

What a consumer can see as dealer invoice is not “dealer invoice”. The dealer pays CONSIDERABLY less than what invoice is. Think about it if dealers are selling only a few hundred over invoice how would they stay in business? That huge car lot, all the cars on the lot they are making payments on, insurance, electricity, and all the staff that’s sitting around. I know 2 families that own dealerships and they both have multiple million dollar houses around the world. You can’t afford to live that way unless the profits are huge. Never ever feel bad for dealers. They won’t sell unless they are making money. They never lose money.

[@CarEdge]

Jeff, I beg to differ. The invoice is the invoice but there are other ways that manufacturers help dealers make profit, such as hitting and surpassing monthly and quarterly sales objectives set by the manufacturer. Oh, and dealers make the bulk of their profit off of the parts and service departments, it is not just sales.

[@jeffpalmer9542]

I do appreciate your videos and your response but I do need to disagree. Just do the math. No business can make such small margins and support physical locations, advertising, employees, utilities making a few hundred per car. It really shouldn’t be called “invoice” as that’s a farce. It should be called “intro price” or something else than invoice. Dealerships by far make the most profit on used cars. They totally control what they pay and what they sell a used car for. I agree on monthly bonuses, spiffs and incentivizing manufacturers will do to push the metal. BUT your argument on parts and service bringing in the bulk of dealership profit. We all know independent mechanics and the profits margins are small. The only way independents can stay competitive with dealerships is buying charging less and providing better service. I love it how many dealerships you’ll hear say that when you trade in a car to them that their service and or parts department charges the sales department what a outside customer pays for service or parts. Gimme a break they pay cost. Under the GM and owner the service/parts isn’t going to profit of sales department for anything. I’m sure they do report up different p&l for monthly performance metrics. In order of what department brings in the most profit it’s: Used cars, new cars, finance, service, parts. Now to give you the benefit of doubt you may not have seen what the dealership really pays for new cars as that might have been held close to the chest by the GM and or owners. Owners don’t make millions off service and parts. Do we all really believe that a mass produced Tahoe/Suburban cost manufacturers 60k to produce then dealers pay 65k and we as consumers pay $65,500?? That is not sustainable for any business. Let’s not fool ourselves.

[@andrewn6384]

@@jeffpalmer9542 Do you have any idea how much profit they make on parts and service? They charge the book value on the time of labor for any repair. If the book says 1.5hrs I'd bet they do it in .5 to1hr. Plus if their service rate is $120/hr they're probably making $50 to $90/hr in profit. Multiply that by 5 or 10 service bays x 8 hours[or 14hrs in labor by the book value] and that adds up to a lot of cash. Then they mark up the parts by up to 150%! For every vehicle they sell they'll make a minimum of $300/year on maintenance and warranty work. A dealer would have to be insane to tell his sales and finance staff not to sell anything if they don't make X amount in profit.His main motivation should be to move as many cars as they can out the door. Even if a dealer doesn't make any money on a sale I don't think he'll lose any sleep over it.

[@pajmf]

You're correct. Dealer invoice means nothing.

[@nsamadisy]

I'd definitely love to see more about used car info gathering / negotiation please! I'm learning so much from these videos! Thanks!

[@normankujawski543]

About 20 years ago I got invoice & MSRP prices on internet and offered $500 over invoice to order car as I wanted it. Deal was accepted immediately with no haggling and no finance BS.

[@ThundermanSze]

When I was a teenager I worked with this old man on the verge of retirement. He told me he did this multiple times and it worked every time. He basically went in to make that offer and he would follow it up with "I'm sure you'll need to go over my offer with your manager, and I understand. But, please hurry up about it. I'm only here because my wife won't shut up about a new car and to be honest, I don't even want to be here."

[@akhere07]

So you are saying dealers profit is only $500 for a $30-40-50k car... isn't that too low for such a business and such a big item in modern world

[@GriffXJ]

​@@akhere07 the dealers get additional factory incentives on specific vehicles, so they're probably making $1500-$2000 in addition to that $500 over dealer invoice pricing. But it all depends, it might be less than that $1500-$2000...it might be more.

[@gnarl12]

​@@akhere07they make more than that easily

[@racheli2598]

@@GriffXJis this the holdback you are referring to?

[@seumasmackinlay]

Have you guys talked about how this stuff works when ORDERING a new car...?

[@leahc7665]

Y’all are the best! I’m doing my best to learn how to shop smartly for a 2021 Kia Sorento and trade my 2016 Hyundai Sonta. I will be adding this tip to my negotiations.

[@davidnix1590]

Hit kickbacks first, then move onto used/CPO please. You guys are great. Love hearing from a reasonable (former) dealer and a current haggler.

[@vincemceveety]

I love watching you two.... big smile

[@marcuslane3]

Great info..in negotiations on a car Im interested in right now..weeds out alot of BS...& lets the salesman & manager know you are not stupid

[@keithg4441]

You guys are great! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[@BPawn6]

Excellent content, as always, gentlemen. Makes me miss my father. Anyway, yes, content on used car negotiation, timing, CPO vs straight used, independent warranty companies vs CPO warranty. Yes Yes Yes - thank you.

[@darrellborland119]

@Victor Howard...Sorry for your loss of Father....when the relationship is good, it is a golden memory, and a strength to draw upon! Take care, and you are not alone. Thanks.

[@Dudlesful]

You dudes are awesome! Thanks for all the info

[@michaeld5770]

I was in the car business for 13 years. 6 as a manager. I appreciate your openess and candor about the business.

[@jeffhildreth9244]

Dr Mike .. If you were in the car business you would know that no dealer will show a customer an actual invoice. Were I the dealer where this "expert" worked I would fire him on the spot if he showed a customer an invoice. I am shocked and quite frankly embarrassed for them in spewing mis-information and half truths and just plain circuitous BS. Lots of in house auto industry jargon to obfuscate and a feeble attempt to validate their shtick. Example: Dealer advertising associations. The cost of the advertising association has nothing to do with the vehicle invoice, it is a simple advertising expense. No more, no less and has no influence on any particular car sale passed on to the customer. Full Disclosure.. In the car biz 14 years with manufacturers to include professionally teaching automotive management as an employee of high line Euro auto makers in the USA and Canada, plus 11 years retail.. Mazda/Honda dealer, SAAB/Volvo dealer and a Rolls, Bentley, Jag, Aston Martin, Lotus etc..dealer.. ad nauseum. This channel is a vaudeville act in my opinion. Comical at times ... but painful watching it thinking of the people who are sucking this up as anything approximating expertise or professionalism. My opinion. I have other thoughts on this.. for another time.

[@michaeld5770]

I was and we did on occasion. Often they would look it up on line and come in knowing the invoice price.

[@MsAnderson-]

4:50 GOLDEN!! Thank you. I will try this!

[@robwilliams6934]

Used car pricing, especially off lease pricing would be great. Dealers often are asking $10,000 above the vehicle buy out price. They claim that they are not making much money on the vehicle.

[@roncadeau524]

I would like to see some content about how to buy the vehicle you want when it's out of state. I recently went through this process and walked away because I felt the dealer wasn't trust worthy. Love your content, I've learned a lot.

[@brandoncyoung]

probably one of the best pieces of advices

[@josepharinden9760]

Awesome content 👍 very educational information it always to see father and working together as a team God Bless 🙏 you both in your journey

[@annettejones4902]

Hey Ray pretty nice to be working with your Son Lucky man Can see how much you guys are enjoying it. Thanks for the great information

[@CarEdge]

A dream come true for the two of us. Lucky indeed.

[@TonyG410]

Zach!!! Wow didn’t know you were in the 410. Love it. Love This channel

[@DrinkingStar]

Lots of good info in the many videos you guys post. I will definitely review them closer to the time I am considering buying a car. Thanks

[@evazee772]

🤣🤣You guys are at times funny. Thanks for the valuable Info.

[@Cptkirk1315]

Im really digging your videos and information, thank you!

[@The_Macaroon]

Gents - well done on responding to points raised in previous video.

[@josetirado985]

Exactly, please talk more about buying used vehicles

[@ab2times677]

Great video ! Using your tactics a year after you posted this video , cheers !

[@expsterm1]

Thanks, learned a few things. Probably good to get the estimated invoice price from Edmunds first and then go to the dealer and ask for their invoice price, then do a comparison of the two.

[@reguser146]

YES,YES CPO TOYOTA pricing tips since Cox Auto owns all the pricing sites and appears to inflate numbers!

[@makerPM]

That makes me feel better. The dealer said they were losing 1,000 on a deal we're closing today. They were pushing to have me raise my price on the car, but if they are okay with moving the volume, I'm okay with signing a great deal!

[@joeg9810]

You guys are informative and funny!

[@frankkerze9608]

General Motors (GM) "Pay 310 Line" on GM Invoice Sheet is a good Starting point. Dealer "Holdback"; "Advertising"; "Expenses" are numbers on the Dealer Invoice sheet

[@samuelfink4799]

Great content guys and as a fifty-two year old man it’s great to see the relationship you all have and fun to see the nuances of your age difference play out especially in the politically correct time we live in. As someone who has always despised the whole car buying process you have encouraged me that it can be a mutually enjoyable process rather than feeling like I’m dealing with my ex-wife. Thanks

[@graithos]

Love the channel! Yes, more content on used cars please.

[@user-od5ik7oc4c]

At my dealership we often volunteer the invoice information during price negotiations

[@gailjohnson6670]

Thank you for the video. Blessings to you.

[@erivera73166]

Love the channel, I am currently living in Puerto Rico and the car buying experience here is a horrific nightmare, compared to a walk in the park back home (orlando, Florida)

[@anthonyromanotv7382]

Man you're right its so complicated btw: have you had any succes. Im trying to buy a new car and Im from Puerto Rico

[@Rich--J]

I was in San Fran in 2017 too for the TN Titans game--our outcome wasn't the same as yours. :( Great video and keep up the good work guys!

[@pelsted]

Very Informative video, Thanks for the information.

[@steveningrahm8928]

The last three new vehicles I bought at a Chevy dealership, I paid 13/5%, 18.8% and 16.6% below MSRP, respectively. There was no trade in and I paid cash. When I buy new farm equipment, including tractors, combines and implements, my dealer discounts the suggested John Deere retail price by 23% and then tacks on his dealer profit. Typically, he adds $5000 for a tractor or combine and $1000 to $1500 for an implement. I would never pay the listed or advertised price for new vehicles.

[@chadiverson9291]

I was and still are a fan of consumer reports. Their custom price guides are worth every penny for what few pennies they cost.

[@S-u-r-e-n]

BIG thumbs up for the used car video!!!

[@nolongeramused8135]

I worked with a former car salesman about 35 years ago, and his take was that the dealers didn't even know how much they paid for a vehicle until all the various factory discounts were accounted for, which might take several months into the next year.

[@bm90025]

Pre-internet, Edmunds sold cars at invoice. I bought a Pontiac Sunbird through that program. I picked it up at a local dealer. (The same local dealer quoted $3200 higher than Edmunds.)

[@renevillanueva9316]

Very informative. Thanks

[@bigrod997]

I love what you two do. Thank you so much.

[@danthemanwiththeplan8442]

Hey guys, I’m actually trying the purchase a 2015-16 Ford F-150. So I would love to hear more about used cars/trucks. Tips and tricks to finding a far offer and price to agree on. Thanks guys!

[@Philosific]

Yes Please do a video on used cars

[@CleaningMyGun]

Good stuff guys!

[@Dre2011]

Would it be possible for you to record the initial conversation you have with a dealer? Then maybe, make a video of you narrating the recording?

[@evazee772]

Aww thank you Ray & Zach

[@kkacz7783]

Yes, very interested in hearing about how to negotiate the best deal on a used car.

[@GunnyPhillips]

Great information. One question. How does a customer know what the available dealer incentives are for a particular car?

[@Shop_Simplicity]

when I was selling Ford cars the dealer I was with showed the invoice and hold back then showed the customer what we wanted to profit is with 2nd sticker and let the customer decide, funny when your upfront people still don't believe you.

[@jayleonard871]

Thanks for the information I find it useful.I have a question, say if you’re eligible for employee pricing do you have any additional pricing leverage that you can apply during negotiations or are you pretty much stuck with that employee price?

[@testbooster]

How do you know if they're telling the truth on the invoice price?

[@user-qy8xl6wo2u]

Don't be naive. The invoice doesn't show you any factory kickbacks they get. And your probably getting a crappy trade in price. Go jump in a shark tank...it's safer!

[@marieb3000]

I heard dealers have invoices specifically for customers. They are not the real invoice. How can I tell if it’s the real thing?

[@oak1day]

VERY interested in more content for used cars.

[@DonDon-zm3vz]

This is great information

[@jeffmcbride2365]

Please do some used car shows! Thank you!

[@efavuzza73]

Great video.

[@marymcb9714]

How do you find out if the particular vehicle you want has: 1) Holdback. And what is that amount? 2) Any customer/factory-to-dealer incentives AND, what those incentives are?

[@stovepipe9er]

Yes, let’s see some on used cars

[@pauld5737]

I’ve watched this program for about 5mos now, and for me, it’s a hit/miss. I narrowed my selection down to a Toyota/Honda/Subaru SUV, while the fees discussion has been helpful, I’ve found that many of these dealers have adopted a similar pricing strategy of Carmax. Salesmen are paid a salary and no commission. Soooo, their message is take it or leave it. I’m not seeing salesmen trembling in their shoes. Maybe pride before the fall, but these various strategies have not been terribly successful. Appreciate your effort. Thanks.

[@elainecruz3830]

I’m glad I found your channel. I love watching you together, you’re so cute.. 😅

[@briancc2100]

This information is useful but truly all you need to do is change the norm for salesman and they get messed up

[@kans6]

Unless there are no additional consumer rebates and incentives .... this is in response to offering a few hundred over invoice.....keep in mind they have all sorts of incentives as u said beyond holdback from auto shows or lack there of during COVID for dealers to still be willing to take inventory. All related to new car buying

[@jayleonard871]

Thanks for information.

[@pilotgirl5953]

Yes please cover used cars

[@cliffordbaker7830]

I really like these guys and have gained confidence in dealing with auto dealerships when purchasing cars for the family. Did I miss something in this video? Where is it that explains “how to get dealer invoice”

[@adriandenson8855]

CPO’d deal - Comparing a model with and without the CPO certification/warranty... Why a dealer tries to push “ well it cost me 2000 to get the certificate, so I have to charge that to you too... “

[@charliethompson7042]

I am in the process of considering the purchase of a 2020 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E. Gee, I wish you guys could come to Alabama and negotiate for me! I have really enjoyed your videos and have learned a lot. BTW...I am at the end (just made the last payment) on a lease of an F150. Residual is just over 27K and value seems to be 35K, or more because I only have 11,200 miles on it!! I would love to purchase it (credit score 819 with practically no bills to pay and over 6K income). However, my wife is having her OTHER hip replaced next month and can't get in my truck! She easily can get in the Ridgeline; ergo, my delimma. Lol...why don't YOU GUYS vacation in the Florida panhandle and swing by the house! LOL

[@j.f.7576]

I bought a Honda in Huntington Beach after contacting the internet sales manager. I told him I would like to buy the car at invoice and he could keep the hold back. He said yes and actually gave us 200 below invoice and showed us the invoice on his Linix based computer. My buddy who used to sell cars recommended I try this with the dealership.

[@blakecunningham3937]

I don't pay more than invoice out the door.

[@killertofu]

used cars for sure. how to negotiate and does the invoice tactic apply to used cars ? i got the basics far as seeing competitors pricing and trying to get a price match and scare the dealers into thinking i will go to another dealer. but how should i determine the dollar amount to get the best deal on that used car ?

[@mastermiind927]

Literally subscribed just because you said your here in MD

[@CarEdge]

Appreciate the support! -Zach

[@kenberan4875]

@@CarEdge LMAO ON THAT 1 , HOPE not in Balto CITY lol ................

[@kenberan4875]

@@CarEdge NEED MORE VIDEOS < SHOWS USED CARS & ON CPO USED TY !!

[@reycruz4513]

Wish I watched this before I clicked all the way in true car website. Now I'm getting calls and emails every day.

[@Nick2JZ]

hello, loved your videos especially seeing Father and Son talking like buddy. My question is: I usually ask for otd price ( which included TT&L and whatever other fees) For example.......if the car is $10k, i just offer $10k otd. What do dealer/sales think when a customer negotiate this way? I am not looking for the lowest price this way of negotiate............. i just wants to keep it simple. Because most of the time the car i am looking for is rare or discontinued so i wants to lock-in asap therefore i am not looking to negotiate and might lose out if i take too much time. thanks in advance!

[@xorencryption]

definitely interested in used car negotiations , specially when you have a trade in. it's more complicated since you need to know about two vehicles in this scenario , you don't want to sell yours for cheap and you don't want to buy theirs high either.

[@profb369]

I appreciate your content. I’m very interested in making fair used midsized/large truck offers and negotiation.

[@donaldhollingsworth3875]

Could you guys doing a video on dealer invoice & what all the information means?

[@winning1products]

Please do the used car vid you discuss. The used car market on Jeep Jks seems all over the spectrum in price and obviously KBB is in cahoots. I saw a 2014 Sahara 130,000 miles for 17g. if you pay that much putting 15,000 miles a year on it you are over 220,000 miles by the time the note is paid.

[@cwdl2004]

Yes please . Used car & certified cars.. ty

[@kuhnsanuk]

If someone is getting an employee discount price is there room for additional negotiation on price or is that basically as good as you can get?

[@fgj8379]

I would love to hear your guys discuss how to negotiate used car prices in the current market. I know carmageddon is upon us, but it seems used car prices still aren't quite at their lowest. I'm looking to purchase a pretty hot selling car right now, and they seem to be, "flying off the shelves," so to speak. I'm wondering if I should wait until Hertz unloads their fleet, or just try something to purchase at a good price right now. Also the car is a 2018+ mustang GT.

[@georgepetrillo7316]

Did you ever buy the 2018 Mustang GT?

[@fgj8379]

@@georgepetrillo7316 yes, picked it up around the time of my original post. Paid it off in about two years. So glad I got the deal that I did, before car prices went crazy high.

[@buttneked3963]

In 2008 and 2013 I offered and bought silverados 2500 HD Duramax the 13 a dually. Excluding all the nonsense to the right of the large sticker I offered 20%- off the MSRP. Both deals done.

[@anandbpatil1]

Please talk about SoT scenarios.. selling out of trust..why dealers do it..how they do it..what benefits they get..what are the risks