How to Fix a 2.6 Science GPA and Still Go to Med School | Application Renovation (S2 E13)

[@lemuelbecc]

Bless y'all for agreeing to get y'all's applications roasted on youtube to help the rest of us. Really appreciate it.

[@nicolexxlove332]

😂😂😂💀💀💀

[@AlexisCelesteT]

Right! 😂😂😂

[@chidimmaj.730]

Lmaooo yes I read this right when he was roasting her for saying being a server prepared her for her college workload 💀💀

[@calvinklein6903]

lmao

[@nish2750]

LMAOOO fr😂😭😗

[@blaby4ever]

In case you wanted to know her case in general and don't have time to watch the whole video 1) GPA and MCAT were not in an optimal range. No notable trends in GPA 2) Shadowing experience done a MONTH before application submission. Shows lack of dedication and a weak passion to the field. 3) Her personal statement has a good start yet lacks purpose to why she wants to be a doctor. 4) Illustrates a sales pitch instead of telling her story 5) Does a poor job in defending her GPA and overall capability in handing medical school in her opening statement. 6) Applied to all out of state schools 7) She applied on a whim and Captain Gray HATES IT!!!!

[@henrynguyen475]

This was the most real and raw Application Renovation ever. I loved it. Dr. Gray tells it as it is and tells people what we need to hear instead of what we want to hear.

[@kylelogan3923]

Hey bro!!

[@kylelogan3923]

Dr Nguyen at Stanford !

[@C3yl0]

Idk but I have the feeling that this young woman should step back and make sure that she really really wants to become a doctor. Her personal statement speaks volumes.

[@sandysprings7777]

Yeah, she had a bunch of C's but you got to give it to her because she really went for it with those super advanced math classes (she had balls). Had she made B's I bet she would have had more success. I appreciate these vids, they're really cool.

[@vdp888]

You can tell by the way Dr. Gray speaks his former patients were very blessed to have him. He must’ve been such an awesome physician. Although I love these videos and they are extremely helpful, I would also like to see a special segment about Dr. Gray during his time as a flight surgeon in the Air Force!

[@rashidimran2737]

May Allah give all the students admission in medical school

[@ahmedelzayat9801]

make duah for me too homie

[@shivmirani748]

Add me to the list!

[@abdullahyusuf190]

Ameen

[@shivanishastri4285]

Only if they truly want it. There are people who leave the pre-med field too easily.

[@rashidimran2737]

@@shivanishastri4285 unlucky people those are

[@user-zl4ch7ux2n]

This is why I love this channel. Dr. Gray is such a great person for helping students through this difficult journey. Content like this will definitely help reduce barriers towards entering medicine and will make the process a lot clearer.

[@Stefon_X]

I feel like you didn’t stress enough that she retake her MCAT. A 494 would likely get her screened out before secondaries and invalidate any changes she makes to her story or activity sections, right?

[@berkeleygolfer]

the 2.6 sgpa ain't helping her case either

[@ArianaWoods112]

@@berkeleygolfer she has a 3.4 overall. That’s usually how they’re screened.

[@vanhoot2234]

@@ArianaWoods112 depends on school

[@ArianaWoods112]

@@vanhoot2234 What schools screen out by science gpa?

[@vanhoot2234]

@@ArianaWoods112 if your science gpa is below a 3.0 is a big redflag for some schools. Case Western Reserve has a podcast where their dean interviews other deans and it was covered several times by several deans. Adding to that. I have seen individuals get a low cgpa but because they went back to school or were career changers had a strong sgpa... Again remember you will be taking upper level science in med school. If you cant excel in the sciences at all then you aren't showing them you can handle it. A strong sgpa can give a committee or members of the committee pause to take a second look.

[@afrothundar]

My advice to this young lady would be 1. Sit back and reflect about WHY you want to become a doctor, is it because you have a heart for service to others, or is it because you are enticed by the idea of making having the social status, and income that comes with being a doctor. If it’s the latter it may not be for you. Med School and Residency is a long and hard journey, and not everyone makes it through. 2. If you choose to pursue medicine then a post-bacc in her case is a necessity, not only to show the med schools that she’s capable of performing at that level, but also to prepare herself and build a foundation in the sciences that will serve her during her medical journey. Getting into med school is just the beginning, you’ve gotta make it through, and if you don’t have a solid understanding of basic science it’s going to be very hard for you to make it though shelf exams, and step exams. I had a handful of classmates who didn’t make it to graduation with me because their science foundation was weak.

[@haruhidaso]

I’m a Physics PhD student who recently got in, but your channel is so interesting! Some of the stuff you say are still applicable to applying to physics PhD, and now I kinda see why I underperformed in my application. I have a 3.85 gpa and did above 90% on GRE, but I got rejected in all but one place. My whole application including my personal statement was a sales pitch, and I didn’t really talked about why Physics is what I want to do. I got into top 30 physics program, but significantly underperformed compared to my peers with similar stat, and from what my professors told me I should expect. I wish there were a channel like yours in Physics, but Physics is more niche than Medical.

[@neemarafi]

Fellow Physics friend, nice to see you in the wild!

[@oak3785]

hello hello another physics fellow, they don't tell you in undergrad just how hard it is to apply for PhD programs for physics *sigh* have fun doing electrodynamics on grad level though :P you got this dude!!!

[@donaldhall8785]

Boy I guess things have really changed. When I applied back in the early 80's there was not a big stigma about applying to public schools outside of your state. I applied to several schools across the country and was accepted by 3 of them. I ended up at Iowa for Med School after living all my life in Florida. Funny thing, I was accepted by 11 med schools but not one of them was in the state of Florida.

[@amandarae281]

i just finished my undergrad and im essentially in the same boat, this is helping me really dig in and do better

[@MoD3RnHD]

The story doesn't matter if your GPA and MCAT are trash...

[@yourfuturedocburenbeiya]

Thank you so much Dr. Gray and to this applicant for being so honest, raw and transparent. Goodluck to the applicant, and keep going if this is really what you truly want to do!

[@OrganicDolphin]

No offense but that's ridiculous that she applied with a 2.6 and a 494. Her application was literally just a fee donation to the schools she applied to.

[@TheDeezy250]

she prolly can write it off on her taxes lmaoo

[@reneeb9487]

What is the point of this comment…

[@TheDeezy250]

I pray for this amount of confidence. 2.6 and 494 MCAT lol. Jesus

[@kylelogan3923]

I have a 3.4 and 494 got two interviews so far

[@kylelogan3923]

The 2.6 is so saddd

[@laurenallison9550]

@@kylelogan3923where did you apply if I may ask?

[@kimsordyl]

Why would she go into medical engineering if she was so bad at calculus????

[@RyanAmplification]

There are exceptions for applying out of state. For example, University of Vermont's class is 75% OOS. Arizona schools accept up to 50%. MSAR is a good resource for applying OOS.

[@nickj8521]

PLEASE DO A TMDSAS APPLICATION

[@wholeNwon]

No one has a right to become a physician. If you don't have the intellectual flexibility/ability to absorb large amounts of info., internalize it and utilize it, do something else with your life. Otherwise, start over and WORK HARDER.

[@ILoveMyPomeranian-p6l]

Agreed. I think it's pure entitlement thinking you deserve to get into med school with a 2.6? Like I wanted to laugh out loud but don't want to be unkind. I would not want someone incapable of getting at least a 3.5 operating on me. There is a reason why it's so hard to get into med school. People's lives are on the line.

[@plutobaby9996]

Did this girl somehow not know who she was going up against ? Like these straight A students with solid personal statements who don’t even get a call back

[@kaileytometich3303]

I loved this episode Dr. Gray! Also, finally took the leap and bought all your books. I look forward to diving in as I prepare for medical school.

[@amandarae281]

how is this going for you now? haha hearing back from you guys are truly helping me find my footing in my path. thanks, look forward to hearing from you.

[@leonardobarzi7010]

I wouldn't recommend doing a masters program just to get into medical school. It just adds extra debt to the already massive debt you're going to incur during medical school. I think retaking prerequisites and other sciences classes at a community/junior college is a better option. It's way cheaper, and you could probably pay for it with a paid clinical experience killing two birds with one stone. It will also leave more time to study for the MCAT since you're not in a full time masters program. Sure, you're not getting the higher level science classes, but does that really matter if you're able to get more clinical experience, potentially a higher MCAT score, and an improved science GPA?

[@karensmyth1215]

She would still need a masters, especially if her credits are over 150

[@Christine-ne4yf]

It wouldn’t be the worst idea for her- a linkage might be her best option. Also some masters are over 40k but others are in the 20k.It’s clear from app though that she didn’t put a lot of thought in her shadowing either though

[@lindsaymaher3197]

Just finishing up nursing school and Im thinking more and more about applying to medical school while working as an RN in the meantime. Have you seen this done before?

[@rjkbuny]

I'm not an expert but I personally know friends who did that. And they were great med students and physicians.

[@MedicalSchoolHQ]

definitely!

[@traceyevans2757]

I’m doing exactly that right now. Are you still pursuing Med school?

[@tisha4lives]

@@MedicalSchoolHQ does a nurse with 10 years experience in nursing have to have shadowing experience?

[@kathleengomez682]

Thank you so much for sharing you application with us! This was immensely helpful

[@Bejman13]

I get the sense that she clearly has no idea what it means to go to medical and what being a physician actually entails. She probably had the thought to apply to medical school and thought “how hard can it be” and then quickly realized that it’s a monster of a commitment. Just a complete waste of dr. Greys time when he could be helping somebody who actually put effort into their application.

[@xavifernet]

Im sorry but you have to have some self awareness to know that those stats are straight up awful. She must have known she had little to no chance of getting in. I know people with amazing stats who’ve been waitlisted at most of the schools they applied to.

[@Russianboyz95]

Come on...with those numbers what kind of advice can you give except for you need to seriously improve your stats.

[@micaelaroyo4837]

Sadly, that is so true. And with her major being engineering it didn't look very good to have such low math grades either 😰

[@karensmyth1215]

@@micaelaroyo4837 it's honestly not uncommon, and it depends on the school ypu went to as well..the engineering school i went to had a less than 50% graduation rate.

[@PFsmang]

I came across this video because I searched for opportunity for students like me who are screwed. She and I have almost the exact same story it’s like she’s me. Im still doing my undergrad but I have a 2.6 science GPA that can go up but it won’t be a competitive 3.4+ gpa. I know there’s post-bacc opportunities but money is such a huge issue.

[@Hi-qt2nj]

What did you end up doing?

[@jlau5634]

What must med schools (MD especially) think when they see an app like hers that “fails” in so many areas….sGPA, MCAT, clinical experiences, etc. Do they question this person’s maturity, judgement and wisdom? Do they think, “this person has some sort of magical thinking”?

[@AstroZombie1]

I would imagine they’d question her judgement as a quick google search will reveal typical minimum requirements, in which she was fairly far off. She would definitely be a fine candidate for a solid BSN program.

[@yantan566]

Applying to medical school is very competitive. This applicant does not have the strong GPA, does not show the long term interest/experiences/dedication. It is really not a surprise she did not get accepted into med school

[@ILoveMyPomeranian-p6l]

I have to question her judgment if she thought applying with a 2.6 was a good idea. Like what was she thinking? She has no common sense. Who wants a Dr. who does not have basic reasoning skills and poor judgment? I think she needs to take some time to grow up and mature as a person. Does she even understand how hard it is just to get through med school? Much less get in?

[@gisellegutierrez4223]

How long of an upward trend does someone need in order to show that they can handle the rigor of med school? Especially if its all hard science classes?

[@mbb6047]

Ya, I wish he suggested how many additional courses she would need.

[@John-zr6cv]

I would love for this question to be answered. I am a junior, and have had mostly A's and B's, but when I was a freshman I really screwed around in some classes and it tanked my GPA (Freshman year was 2013).

[@jayhawkoh]

It depends. I had a sub 2.0 for 7 semesters (90 credits). Took a 3 year break. Pulled 3.9ish taking chemistry courses after the break for 6 semesters (80 credits) and graduated with an overall undergraduate GPA 2.87. Did a full year of graduate SMP w/ 3.7 GPA. 514 MCAT. Currently M1 at mid-tier US MD school. My thought process was to do well for almost the duration that I did badly. If you run out of courses to take in undergrad, go for a graduate program based on hard sciences.

[@ae3730]

Jae Hak Oh was the SMP a graduate GPA or did it count as part of your undergraduate GPA? I’m wondering what was your undergrad cGPA and sGPA? Your story is very inspiring, perseverance pays off, great job!

[@ae3730]

Jae Hak Oh did your graduate SMP guarantee admission? Also did your 2.87 not screen you out when you applied through AMCAS?

[@emilionarvaez1415]

Man this girl was not ready ouch... 😮

[@emilionarvaez1415]

Make the journey as easy as possible, don't make it harder than it has to be. Take statistics boost that gpa.

[@ThatOneGinger47]

Why is it frowned upon to have three different entries for shadowing?

[@cooperholland3976]

Usually people clump their shadowing into one entry. In the description, applicants can elaborate on what specialties they shadowed. Adding a separate entry for each specialty looks like you dont have many experiences and youre just trying to fill space. Hope this made sense.

[@lorenzol1996]

How do US med schools look upon international students (i.e. Canadians) who are unable to do shadowing due to legal restrictions? In Canada, the College of Physicians prohibits non-health students from shadowing (i.e. only professional program students in PT, OT, MD, RN programs can shadow), so we are really limited in our ability to get shadowing hours - our only avenue is to do those expensive pre-med trips to foreign countries... but that isn't really accessible to students like me who can't afford the $5000+ costs. Any thoughts?

[@tefflebear]

He has a whole video on that, look on the channel

[@luccrowley419]

Quick question for you Dr. Gray. For those of us who are applying to an out of state public school with significant ties, how do we show the significant tie to those states? Is there a section on the application or secondaries?

[@carolinelowery4671]

Usually on secondaries (which are specific to each school) they ask why you want to attend that school in particular (sorry for the crazy late response lol)

[@kylelogan3923]

She can get better experiences but she shouldn’t have applied this cycle.. she was basically experimenting and submitting an app

[@sarahjohnson1726]

Thanks so much for these!

[@swoloist]

It’s my summer before junior year, how do I shadow during covid19?? Ive shadowed before, but I want to do more!

[@lemonade432]

If your school has an alumni directory, I would start by finding physicians there and emailing them. If not, reach out to local hospitals. They may turn you down due to covid, but I would at least try to see if you can agree to set something up once covid dies down. Nonetheless, medical schools will be VERY lenient when it comes to completing activities during a time like this.

[@amandarae281]

@@lemonade432 this was very insightful, i also have an overwhelming feeling that im "not doing enough" during this crisis and i felt more like a burden, but when you said to at least try and see if we can set something up for after covid, helped me clear up some goals for myself

[@jordanquintanilla667]

You mentioned opening up an application and just seeing what it looks like. I essentially did that, but I also got letters of recommendations. Is it okay to transfer those letters of rec to my application for this year? Or do I need new ones?

[@jeniferchisomogu5223]

Hi! You'd have to have those letters resent in order for them to be used for the 2021 application cycle.

[@_Shaia_]

Any update on her medical school journey?

[@yonatannegash3724]

Hi Dr Gray! Awesome insightful videos as usual. I wanted to ask your view on how international students that completed their undergrad studies here in the US should tackle the application process?

[@srhill688]

Would this type of applicant be a good candidate for a post-bacc program? A year of science classes to demonstrate improvement, a chance to get additional clinical experience, seek out advisors, and study for/retake the MCAT?

[@amberlee9661]

Hi I am a prospective medical student with a lowish GPA. I am planning on retaking courses over the summer and taking a gap year to improve my GPA. I know medical schools no longer do grade replacement but I was wondering how they average your new grade. For example if I got a C in a 3 credit class and then retook it and got an A, would that B average be weighted as a 3 credit class or a 6 credit class? Love your content btw!!!

[@piscesgirl98]

They will both compute into your gpa separately. Essentially it’s a B but it will compute them both and list them both separately

[@jordanbendavid986]

Is this a beneficial way to improve a bad mark in a few courses. Let’s say u retake physics and get an A instead of a D is retaking the course after undergrad worth it?

[@shivmirani748]

Jordan Bendavid in the case for physics since it’s a pre req one would have to retake it since minimum grade to be accepted is a C- (either that or C)

[@lexiealexander2264]

You will need to get at least a 2.0 in all pre-reqs for medical school in order for the credits to be counted. As for repeating 2.0 or 2.5 classes, it normally isn't recommended (and many undergrad schools don't allow it). If you do take a class twice it will compute into your gpa twice, so 6 credits instead of 3. It is typically better to move on from the class and instead take another upper level science and do well in that course.

[@jordanbendavid986]

Lexie Alexander so take like 3 courses (at least part time student) in upper level sciences and do well. These classes would be labelled post bacc tho correct? I’m planning on swiping schools and taking a few pre read at a different university back in the state I was born in and want to apply in. I need to take or go still and I’m thinking of a biochem and possibly a another biology class. How many courses would be needed to prove my gpa (3.4) out of undergrad before I apply. Thanks for any advice it is much appreciated

[@osnapitzchris]

How do we go about getting Dr. Gray to review our application?

[@johnmonroe5197]

What would he a good way to explain playing the violin on the application, if that would be worthwhile?

[@jenshu7]

From what he seems to say it appears that you should tell a story about what impact it has on you

[@nikimohammadzadeh9409]

It is definitely worthwhile! Schools want to know that you actually have a life outside of school/medicine. Talk about the impact it has on you as a person!!

[@TheHawksfan16]

Is there a channel like this for dental school?

[@carlosechemendia5559]

For real let me know if you find one

[@summerperry]

What did you mean by "didn't mark yourself as disadvantaged, no major red flags" would being disadvantaged be a red flag?

[@alhomsiyyah]

I think he meant more like 1) not disadvantaged, and 2) after circling the answers to the questions about felonies and misdemeanors, no major red flags in the application

[@29957fred]

She’s good at engineering

[@neovirux321]

Hey quick question, do you have a podcast/video on loans, and if those pay for all your expenses in medicine. I'm asking this cause I would like to consider applying to places like NY or California and the living expenses there are HUGE. I guess the real question is, should I apply to expensive schools/states or is something that I should not worry about?

[@jadebass2]

If you’re worried about money, wouldn’t it be better to go to a school in your own state or a cheaper state to live in, then try to work in the states you want to be in? At least that way, the living expenses will be astronomical, but you won’t be paying for an expensive school at the same time, and conversely making money to live.

[@sarahsutton8219]

@@jadebass2 q

[@OrioleBeagle]

Would she also have difficulty getting into a BSN nursing program or a PA program with her science GPA? I have seen a lot of KZbin videos where people complain about how hard it is to get accepted into nursing schools or PA programs.

[@AstroZombie1]

She would be fine to get into a typical state school BSN program. She might want to consider an NP or PA program as they aren’t typically as tough to get into as med school.

[@jojosiwa4522]

@@AstroZombie1PA schools have become more competitive over the years, and even though GPA may be a bit lower to get in, if you have a lower GPA you have to have way more clinical hours to make up for it I’m pretty sure.

[@daniellagomez2562]

How can I be invited on to an episode? I’d love to hear what he has to say. Though, I haven’t applied just yet.

[@nannettem.colondiaz7775]

During my shadowing experience I was working with a complex care pediatrician, and I would actually have contact and communication with patients. Would it be bad to still consider that clinical experience and a meaningful experience?

[@Bryan_Kay]

Was it to you?

[@adriansherman59]

post bacc for her

[@micaelaroyo4837]

Do hobbies only include like clubs or organizations or can it include stuff like knitting and embroidery (those are my hobbies, i really love them!)?

[@chickswithstaches]

I put crocheting on mine!

[@lemonade432]

Hobbies are anything that you do in your free time for fun, so it can be just about anything! I put running down, and have never been affiliated with a club/team/etc

[@samuelsmithmed214]

My dude toasting people in the caption of the video and the face he's making 😂

[@redpilledbachelor7776]

Would working as an CNA for 3 years be helpful.

[@kimberlydamon5884]

yes, shows clinical experience and shows that you know a lot of what the field may entail.

[@nikimohammadzadeh9409]

How would I explain a low gpa in dual credit on my application? I have a God awful gpa from my dual credit courses because of some severe mental health issues, and now that I’m back on track I feel like I’ve destroyed my chances at getting into medical school... please help!!

[@Hsjsjskekdocienskspsbebdvd]

would this be helpful for a student considering to purse being a PA ?

[@joe.diamond]

Time for Caribbean

[@xniapjustinx]

i live in a state with only one md school. is applying to out of state schools frowned upon? what about out of state public vs private?

[@starrailsunday]

Out of state isn’t frowned upon by all schools, look into schools which are friendly to out of state students

[@ruchieelewitz3115]

Does shadowing a nurse practitioner, or a pa count?

[@MedicalSchoolHQ]

Not for your medical school application but it's worth doing if you're trying to decide which path to go. -MW

[@davidsoto4394]

Is it possible to take prereques for the MCAT and to apply to medical school but not for any other reason because the person in question already has earned a college degreeand to show an upward trend of inprovment to make up for poor performance in science classes in the past caused by learning disabalaties, , depresion, and problems at home?

[@davidsoto4394]

I understand why medical school admision boards place such a high emphasis on grades but just because a student gets a C in a class or is not good at math it does not mean that they will not make it through medical school. The patient will not judge a doctor on their grades in undergrad or in medical school. When I go to the doctor I have never seen the doctor do any math more complex than basic Algebra in front of me. I do not understand why medical schools require students to take classes like Physics, and or Calculus because these things have no direct relationship to the clinical practice of medicine.

[@davidsoto4394]

Is it bad to retake classes you failed?

[@ritaassani6291]

Is working in a care home (CNA) a clinical experience?

[@BedrockPorkchop]

Yes

[@hannahmathews812]

Yes that definitely is because you get direct patient care experience. Only reason I became a CNA.

[@akesssw2327]

Dr Gray will an A- be considered an A on the application?

[@js3098]

In computing Amcas gpa, an A- -> A-. But, A+ -> A. Below an A+, Amcas grade and college grade are the same.

[@Valeriaarianna]

i wish I found your channel before I applied😅

[@mushtaqsarwar1953]

she is Definity not a med material.

[@guacamoleontoast4591]

36:00

[@ic718708]

My physician mentor let’s me actively participate in my “shadowing”. I scrub in to the OR with her, hold body parts and instruments. I’ve stuck my hands inside someone abdominal cavity 🤩! I am treated as if I am just another part of the patient’s care team! SO NOT BORING! When you said shadowing was boring, I literally said” NO RYAN” 😂

[@chrisking1029]

Is that even legal?

[@ayom23]

your experience sounds unique. in general, shadowing as a premed can be pretty boring.

[@samearasefi3087]

I wouldn’t tell people that lol definitely not legal

[@PHILLYMEDIC69]

wow that sounds very very illegal...... Im glad you got the experience nonetheless though

[@WillvsFear]

_iraina highly illegal but I wish I could’ve been able to get that from my shadowing experience. But my god how much legal shit that can incur worries me

[@tinman3716]

I know we are suppose to encourage people on this series and whatnot but to be honest, some people just don't have the makings of a doctor. Her entire application screams 'i don't want to be a doctor' to me and her stats were lesser than poor. Personally I think she is wasting doctor Gray's time big time by coming on here for him to nitpick through an applicant with a fine tooth comb while her problems are so apparently visible. I would never trust her as a doctor and hope she finds success in another field more suitable to her stature.

[@kennethmoore3783]

A ‘C’ in organic chemistry is usually disqualifying.

[@kennethdenzel9520]

Not true, I know people in med school that got C’s in O Chem.

[@kennethdenzel9520]

Different strokes for different folks.

[@kennethmoore3783]

@@kennethdenzel9520 I guess things have changed in recent years. Thanks.

[@kennethmoore3783]

“The reason admissions committees look closely at organic chemistry grades is that organic chemistry requires not only memorization (although some claim that it doesn’t) and lots of study time, but problem solving skills. Even though you won’t have to know much organic chemistry as a physician, the fact that you were able to do well in the course says a lot about 1) your study habits, 2) your motivation, drive, and determination, and 3) your problem solving skills.”