How to Fix ACT 3 in BALDUR'S GATE 3

[@samlittle6092]

It’s obvious the game was originally designed to be much bigger and I would have gladly paid for more content. This was the best game ever made.

[@Str8FromMtl]

I agree a 100%. I didnt realize it during my play through but this game definitely feels like it climaxed at the end of act2. Act 3 felt like « tie loosing time »

[@jaartisjones5713]

I'm in act 3 rn but going off what everyone is complaining about. I think there should've been 4 or 5 acts except for 3, in my opinion.

[@jessicabaker5259]

It's disconcerting that you are absolutely right. It'll never happen but I'm unnerved (In a thoughtful way) that you are so spot on. Kinda wish I hadn't seen this? Nah... but it'll be in the back of my mind a lot!

[@chika4275]

This shows why Larian needs to make the Definitive Edition! i really hope they do this!

[@Czesnek]

They won't because they don't own the IP and they are already working on two new games.

[@OtterSpace975]

Hear me out, I think they where originally designed to be this way. I think that if you swap them around, it makes more sense. Wrapping up Shadowheart's quest-line, except for finding her parents, happens here. The entire underside of the castle is a flayer lair. The potential end to Gale's quest-line, and an early game over makes more sense if it was in act 3. The end of Laezel's quest isn't tied to Baulder's Gate, except that the dude asking you to free the prince is there. Karlach's quest ends in Avernus, Wyll's dad and the end of his contract with Mazora don't need to be there specifically, in fact I think it works better as a reveal if they didn't do it in act 2. Only Asterion's NEEDS to be there, and even then, why is there a vampire lair in Baulder's Gate anyway? You would think one of the bigger magic users in the city would've sussed that place out already. Kinda why most vampires either rule over entire regions, or are sufficiently secluded. makes more sense for it to be out in the middle of the "Shadow cursed lands". Especially since there's no sun there. The ONLY serious story implications this would have is the refugee Teeflings story, and you could add a different threat that kills some of the non-important ones on the way. I find act 2 feels kinda like you're coasting, none of the characters have a lot to do, it feels like wrapping up. In act three, it feels like the characters get more development and the story moves along slower than it did in act two. This plays very well into it being a middle act. Here's the thing though, I got burnout in act three. There's mathematically speaking, too much to do. You reach max level far before you run out of quests, but the endgame baddies don't scale to max level for some reason (except house of hope), and it gets really easy and kinda tedious after the first one or two. This can be somewhat fixed by moving it to act two, but that may have been why they swapped them.

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

I still feel dissapointed that ultimate "dungeon" in the game is City Sewers. I think player should have been given chance to travel Baldur's Gate first at act 2 for free-roaming in Rivington and Lower City. To meet Gortash as some sort of ally figure in Wyrm's Rock (if you don't have Karlach around), maybe optional run-in with both Orin's cult and Cazador to build those two up as well. Then you leave for Shadow Cursed lands and when you do, cannot return to city proper until after defeating Ketheric. 3rd act will be at Baldurs Gate and should have you enter city preparing for siege, finally meet Steel Watch, enter the Upper City to encounter Lorroakan and Cazador and Gortash, and have final encounter with Orin and tie up loose ends. We really needed the Upper City as Ramazith's Tower, Ducal Palace, and Cazador's Mansion are all located there. Obviously game cut many things. I am also quite certain we were supposed to encounter Ethel's Coven in subsequent chapters, a sea hag and a night hag respectively, as these are only three hag types mentioned in the in-game books at Ethel's Teahouse. Sea-Hag in Baldur's Gate harbour, and leader of the Coven in the Upper City would have been amazing.

[@edwinvoncarstein]

This is literally what I have told my brother a couple days ago. I absolutly love this game (even thou I was very skeptical of it first as a life long BG fan) but it has a big giant flaw which is the pacing of the game. I really like each act and what they have to offer but I feel like after Act 1 the world should open up more and give the player the opportunity to explore and to do some side adventures before the main plot kicks into the higher gear but unfortunatly it only happens right after some major shit went down so it feels really weird to just hang around and fuck about when you get to Baldurs Gate since you know exactly what is happening, who is coming for you and you understand some major shit is about to go down. Also including the Underdark in Act 1 feels like a massive mistake. Underdark is supposed to be an extremly dangerous place so I feel like it would be way more appropriatly placed at the very start of Act3 on your way to the Moonrise tower for the final confrontation. BG3 is still one of the best games in the last decade but I really do agree that they went the completly wrong way in this aspect

[@melihkaraol4826]

I totally agree. I am still playing the game with countless new beginnings and I can add another issue: Leveling. 1 to 3 is super easy, 3 to 5 is like hell, and 5 to the end of Act 2 is not important because it is balanced. After that in Act 3 player reached the city at 9 or 10 level. There is huge content but no levelling up. You can easily level up to max. The rest is story and item grinding. Your suggestion can fix the whole thing. Begin with Crash Site > Save or Destroy the Grove > separate the ways into Underdark (maybe the Hag story begins with it) and Mountains > reach the City. I think the City part needs 5 or 6 levels to finish and collect the items. After the whole story, you can face the ultimate boss in Shadow Cursed Lands. You can be well-prepared or ill-prepared depending on the city part. The story still can add the twist at the end, the Netherbrain thing. And besides, what is the point of lifting the shadow curse? It has no affection in the storyline and no celebration at the end.

[@lechecbb]

Legit, this would fix so many of my issues with Act 3. For the game putting so much urgency on dealing with Orin and Gortash as soon as possible, there is so much content that it causes a noticable dissonance. Though, for some of your points I would make some different suggestions: - For Minthara, have Orin judge her instead of Gortash, since they have history - Make the end of Act 2 (Baldurs gate proper) tie in more for dark urge players since Gortash and especially Orin play greater significance in their personal quest - Move rescuing Mizora from Moonrise to the Iron throne. This would give her a reason to incentive Wyll to rescue her, would still leave Wyll to negotiate his contract, and would still bring the mechanic of Mizora helping/hinering you during the sequence if Ravenguard still lives - I would still have the final battle take place in Baldurs gate, but at least this way there would be actual urgency since it would become a race between you and the marching army, and you would get more time based on your prep and allies And another thing you were spot on for was Ketheric feeling like he could be recruitable, because he originally was suppose to be; cut content from before the release where, if you did recruit him, he would of taken an advisor role against Gortash and Orin at your camp

[@noctoi]

I absolutely don't agree, but I DO think that the starting area, the Underdark, the Mountain pass and the Shadow Cursed Land should have been 4 distinct acts. I also think that Act 3 should have been broken up into at least two acts.The act 3 starting area and all the companion/fetch quests, and the ACTUAL story integral content in the final act and final boss fight. That would allow those who want to, to just... skip the filler in Act 3 and go straight to the main quest without wading through all the mess. Act 3 is incredibly climactic if you JUST do the companion and main story but it gets drowned in the fluff. IT's not helped by the fact that the sewers are so damn annoying to navigate. The prob is that there was a bunch of military based content that was cut in early Beta (before EA started) and it shows in the way Act three feels like it's bloated with *too much* content yet still empty. Hell there was supposed to be a huge dragon fight over the military camp after the act 3 starting cut scene! Ketheric was originally going to be a companion after the final Act 2 fight! I think the biggest prob is that they realised they couldn't make all the original ideas fit in seamlessly without the scope of the game getting out of control, but they didn't quite write out the build-up to the cut content. I understand why they cut that stuff, but I also wish it could have been smoothed over once the scrapped story was removed.

[@Isus24-s8e]

I just wish that we got the Upper City to explore. I was literally sure that we will, then when i went there and got the cutscene that i am not ready to face the Elder Brain i was like ''wait...that's it?''. Also i expected a better development of the ''final stages'' of our companions' quest lines. Cazador apparently actively involving himself in politics, pulling the strings in the city, yet the fight with him is only limited to the dungeon. I feel like most of those characters should've been connected with the main story somehow. I expected Cazador to work directly with Gortash and find out about that during a ball or something (even like an after party of Gortash's coronation, also such a shame that they didn't make his coronation more ''spectacular''). Overall i just expected a quest that would be similar to the Winter Palace section in DA Inquisition, where we would've learned more about who we can trust, who is manipulating who, and have multiple branches of choices. Also didn't like how we never really got a chance to properly get to know Orin and Gortash. Expected a set of quests that we can do for them, maybe even a romance. Personally, i also didn't like how they ended the plot of Ansur. All that talk that the Heart of the Gate needs to aid us, just so we can kill him all the same. I expected an option to side with him, but then i guess we would've turned into mind flayers so it was kinda pointless, but still.

[@Soviet628]

Wait ketheric was gonna be a companion???

[@noctoi]

@@Soviet628 Yep, the Larian team explained what they'd planned and why they cut it in an interview they did a little while ago. I think it was the interview they did when they said they weren't doing BG4? I'll try to find it, but Game Rant did an article on it about two months ago.

[@mrl2126]

the thing about mountain pass and underdark is that you choose your path, thats why it belongs to the same act. some dont even think to explore both of them

[@hem9483]

nah. it's not climactic at all when your companions go from well written characters to cardboard cutouts of their old selves. act 3 is rushed and it ruins the experience.

[@calenthebard2051]

Very VERY verrryyy good analysis. Good job!

[@e-duh3529]

Honestly I like the game as it is. Maybe because I first experienced it as durge, which makes the whole Orin fight a lot more personal and I also happened to be romancing Karlach, so that made the conflict with Gortash feel a lot more personal as well. That said, I can get why act 3 would feel underwhelming compared to act 2, cause act 2 is almost perfect imho

[@guitarmama06]

I have a coworker who finished the game, and the the only complaint he had was that the sewers were a total drag, like "dungeon crawling" in Skyrim. I'm only in Act 1, so I don't really have an opinion on what was said in the video.

[@marekcunderlik6815]

So you just...spoiled the entire game for yourself?

[@_polargaming]

Very solid content...subbed!

[@benallred5897]

🙏💪

[@jefferydavidson5347]

Although everything here makes sense, act 3 needed to be big and open because after finishing the game, if you wanted to mess around, you want to do it at the point right before beating the game. That’s where you need to have your big open area.

[@ivaniawren5014]

I wanna like this, but have to take a moment to address the criticism that doesn't make sense early into the video. First, there was complaining that balder's gate is at the end of the journey, in a journey story. 'why call the game balder's gate if it takes so long to get to balder's gate' or something to that effect. For the same reason that we hear the goal is mt. Doom in lord of the rings, and they don't reach that volcano halfway through the trilogy: because the intended destination should be reached when it's the end of the journey, not halfway through it? Then there's the bit about how 'the only way to balder's gate is through the shadow cursed lands' ...the only way to it from *this wilderness* we find ourselves in. I'm not sure if you noticed but the natuloid didn't crash in water deep, surrounded by shops and roads. It landed in the middle of nowhere, on the opposite end of the shadow lands, by happenstance. The tieflings emerged from *hell* and found themselves out here, they just wanna get back to civilization. The druids like living in the middle of nowhere and wakeen's rest is a little frontier outpost, with a smuggler's base far from the cities. I mean they call wyll the blade of *frontiers* for a reason. I want to like this video, you're making some good points, then you just get Wierd hangups about stuff when if you just... I don't know, paid attention, you'd understand?

[@MitchMyester]

I did say to correct me if I’m wrong 😅

[@ivaniawren5014]

@@MitchMyester I mean fair enough. Like I said it's a good video and you're making some good points, just really wanted to get those out, they felt Wierd considering how well you grasp the rest of the story

[@MrFuggleGuggle]

I don’t like the level 12 cap…Act 3 has a huge amount of stuff, but when I’m level 10 at the start of it, and can get level 12 by killing some bats and level 1 NPCs in Cazador’s mansion and a couple other minor tasks…then I’m just grinding quests for specific gear items I may not even need. Also the only boss you ‘need’ to fight in Act 3 is Orin. You can just Gale-blast the final battle after invisible walking / flying to the trunk of the brain after Gale agrees to explode. Makes your Honour Mode run easier, but, cheapens the experience of Act 3.

[@NotImportantPersonNumber2]

In my opinion max level should be 15

[@jimmykedge6650]

​@@NotImportantPersonNumber2good luck balancing level 7 spells

[@NotImportantPersonNumber2]

@@jimmykedge6650 it's not needed. Just make level 6 spells available during level 13 and then you get 1 or 2 extra spell slots.

[@kinggamereon653]

Act 3 is easily my favourite in terms of gameplay alone so I could never think of dropping a playthrough there. I just love the point where my character's become basically gods with their builds fully realized. I do agree that the main quest isn't as appealing in act 3 and usually I just leave it for last and there's a bit of a problem with sometimes all the different quests feeling like a shopping list I need to decide what to do when. Still, absolutely love act 3 while act 2 is my favourite.

[@AlexFrank02]

I literally never thought of this but holy shit you are so right! Especially with how many Act 1 plot lines are paused in Act 2 until Act 3.

[@sagittariusa7662]

You could have the Mountain Trail connected to Baldur's Gate and have that as a separate act, which would allow you to transfer a lot of stuff from Act 2 (old Act 2) to this new Act 2. And thereby turn Old Act 2 into an Act 4. Act one is the Grove and Outside lands, including the Underdark. You could extend the Underdark to connect with the Mountain Trail and add more to that area to make it its own area with access to Shar's Temple. You could just move the access to the graveyard and Shar's Temple to the Mountain Trail to an area to sort of touches the Shadowlands, so a small bit of it goes into the Mountain Trail, but you still cannot get into the Shadowlands until after going to Baldur's Gate. Offer a small teaser and taste of what the Shadowlands have to offer. Because there is quite a bit in that temple. You could even have it that releasing the Nightsong is only the first step to removing Thorn of his immortality. You also have to go to Baldur's Gate to release or undo something in the sanctuary of Cazador as well as the House of Hope of Raphael. What you do to Yurgir in the Shar Temple impacts what happens in the House of Hope that can be of help to you without making a contract with Raphael to do what needs to be done in reducing the immortality of Thorn. It could be that the dwarf sisters that Raphael has are sort of like Horcruxes for Thorn's immortality. And that the Nightsong, Dame Aylin is the only means to undo these Horcruxes which is why she was chained up. It can also explain the big bone men you see running around in the Mountain Trail to be guards for this temple, not for Shar's sake but for Thorn to keep Dame Aylin hidden and confined. The Grove and Exterior Lands, the Mountain Trail with the Graveyard and a small bit of the Shadow Curse, Baldur's Gate, and the Shadowlands. I would argue there should be a land between the Shadowlands and Baldur's Gate. And there is the Underdark which connects these lands together with an additional area that only accessible through it, exclusively, which is the Forge. That would make six areas in total. "What would be the area between the Shadowlands and Baldur's Gate?" We would have to look at a map of Faerun and see what makes sense.

[@jefferydavidson5347]

I realize how badly I am in the minority, but act 3 is personally where I started getting into the game. I felt like that’s where the game picked up and got interesting, and I think that without it, I wouldn’t have ended up replaying the game.

[@KaiSaeren]

I think what would have also improved act 3 and the game in general, if this was the point where you made your choice regarding the tadpoles. Since they actually do not matter in the plot, nor if you indulge in the powers or not all the endings are exactly the same and it completely disregards one of the biggest roleplay opportunities in the game and the main reason for kicking off the story altogether, however if they didnt take out the tadpoles being dangerous because of "fun", act 3 could have had this huge even emotional choice as the player could be made to turn against their party, or you could go against Daisy (hearts desire), people could want to kill you if you used the powers too much and turned even partially (which is just completely ignored as it is atm) and such, there is a ton of potential in the tadpole handling and cutting out Daisy, remaking emperror and removing this whole decision out of the game completely because people werent engaging with the new shiny talent system was simply ridiculous. And ironically it didnt work, because over 70% of the players still didnt use the powers anyway, at least not on their first playthrough. That being said, I wouldnt mind the switch, but a lot would need to be changed, what with the brain being the actual final villain and all. I think more specific pacing would also solve many of these issues, being just unleashed unto this huge part of BG and let loose does make the pacing of the story incredibly off and you can easily miss out on tons of important stuff, I think the main narrative should have been at least a little more curated.

[@barubary4477]

This was very, very good. You made so many great points, and I agreed with everything you said here.

[@alexmashkin863]

I don't have a lot of problems with Act 3, your proposition is interesting but really, for me I'd just like more detail in Act 3 and more ways to resolve questlines. My biggest real roleplay gripe is I really want the interlude between Act 2 and Act 3 to be less railroad. I agree though that Ketheric is the best villain out there, so definitely deserves to be the one. Also give me better final fight 😂

[@empressofdestiny]

I love this idea it really flows better story wise.

[@txbiaz]

ive been waiting for/looking for a video like this forever, thank you for making this

[@Steph1]

My main issue with A3 is that it’s super unclear: it’s the city killer a main or side quest? Do I need to kill the rulers, or can I sway them? Do I need to kill Cazador or is it a side quest? What about the library portal level? …

[@tymoteuszmotyka2849]

For me the problem with act 3 is that as you enter you can do everything right away You can help prisoners and free Gondians, You can go to Bhaal Tribunal, You can go to Emperor's house, you can do every single companion quest. It's just large amount of quest thrown onto you. And final battle is tedious with those 4 mind flayers that can stun you infinitely and dragon let's not forget about that dragon

[@thorobliterator1934]

My first playthrough I missed most of Act 2 because I so badly just wanted to get to a proper city hub. Act 1 took so long and then seeing "lolno you have to do all act 2 as well before getting to explore a city" made me just want to rush through

[@MitchMyester]

I remember seeing all the videos of the game before I bought it (Xbox owner) and being utterly shocked that the first and only city you reach in the game is in the last third of it

[@UrbanVarsek]

I agree with your general sentiment that arriving to the city really slows down the gameplay and that it would be better for game's pacing if we arrived to the city earlier. However, I disagree with your takes on chosen as villains. Ketheric and entire moonrise towers finale is perfect as act closing event - it is necessary to push story forward in what is otherwise very open ended game with focus on exploration. Without moonrise towers setpiece game would end up really dragging at mid point and all story heavy stuff would be pushed to the end, which would be even worse for pacing. I also disagree with your comparison of Orin and Gortash to Ketheric. Yes, confrontation with Ketheric is far more climactic, but that is by design, as he serves as act closing boss fight. Gortash and Orin don't have the same role, after act 2, Ketheric's role of "main antagonist" is taken over by Netherbrain. Gortash and Orin are there to drive act 3 story forward and provide "factions at war" dynamic similar to grove vs goblins in act 1. Also, this is totally personal preference, but I kinda like Orin and Gortash far more than Ketheric as characters. Ketheric has very generic villian origin with little to no nuance. Orin and Gortash are more personally involved and converse with you more during act 3. They are also referenced a lot and heavily involved with different storylines in the city. They are just percieved as "lesser" because resolution of their questlines isn't "end of act" setpiece.

[@MMORPGFreaky]

thats such a great idea, get everything done in Baldurs Gate and then move into the Shadow Cursed Lands to defeat the unkillable General Thorm and lift the curse

[@ansizfark]

Definitely agree here, having the brain pop out after defeating Ketheric would have been perfect. Having act 3 before would have allowed you to pickup Minsc earlier, Halsin is a wash because you could pick up Jaheria in act 3 without much change.

[@EleanorBlythe]

It would also be nice to see the shadow cursed lands after the curse is lifted. You could have the epilogue party take place in the newly saved shadow cursed lands

[@junpeidaman]

You didn't mention him but Astarion's quest would also need to be heavily changed. Without having to change Cazador's mannor location, maybe we could've infiltrate it to fetch info about the ritual, and discover that it was being done in the shadow cursed lands or something, and the whole Raphael kill Yurgir stuff could happen in the Sharran temple instead This change would also affect a buncha Emperor stuff, I would be curious about how the writers would've formulated it's stuff in this case (especially the Ansur and Elfsong quests)

[@DerEwigeWanderer]

Agree. Stopped playing for a few months and started again a few days ago. Wanna finish it finally.

[@kaiju_k41]

I can see where you're coming from, act 3 definitely feels rushed. I agree with most of your points, bloody brilliant. Here are my thoughts on the pacing. Having at least a certain part of Baldur's Gate accessible as a 'mini-hub' would work great - make us go no farther than Wyrm's Crossing at this point, and still keep a portion of quests in that city outskirts area. There's already a reason why they don't let us in due to Gortash's coronation, but we can switch it around and make it actually be because of Ketheric-Gortash-Orin conflict. Anyway, you could come up with lots of reasons why the whole city would be under a lock down or something because of the Absolute. Ketheric is gathering an army to take the city - there's your main reason to go, already established - we are ultimately forced to go into shadow cursed lands to face him before we could go into the actual city. Make Ketheric seem like the (only) actual main villain, before we get to the plot twist that the three are actually working together. Gortash and Orin manipulating him and using grief works pretty well already. Gortash is a backstabbing schemer, first he betrayed Karlach, and now used you and everyone in your party to do his dirty work. And Orin...is just Orin lol The hunt for netherstones begin. Leave the ways to get to shadow cursed lands as is - either underdark or mountain pass. Personally, underdark would work best because you could connect the old temple of Shar and the Grymforge with the Gauntlet of Shar. I can see this being a problem because some locations are tied to each other, like underdark and wilderness in act 1, but there's a lot of ways to add nuance and close off or add certain travel paths instead. Mountain pass would still remain as optional big side quest if you choose to trust Lae'zel, and having it be accessible via either wilderness or Baldur's Gate won't really make a difference. This pacing to me already feels more like playing actual tabletop d&d - there's adventure in the wilderness, then some break in the civilization in Wyrm's Crossing, then an expedition to the shadow cursed lands, before wrapping it up back at Baldur's Gate proper.

[@yapper58]

In the original BG 1 the climax took place in the Bhaal temple below the city after the hero travels around building experience and power in the countryside. They did the same thing in BG3, but they added the Shadow cursed area which is a completely toxic environment that requires all kinds of special protections just to be able to walk around. It's almost like they are saying that walking around Baldurs Gate city is a more dangerous than the Shadowlands. I found that a bizarre switch of the way you would normally build difficulty for the player and a very perplexing choice.

[@Riverfall_]

I'm currently doing Act3 for the first time and it's really fells messy. At the beginning, I couldn't even walk around properly without the game throwing at me a completely new quest. I want to do long rest and continue what I was doing... nope here is a long rest event that just distracted me from what I was doing. It's really hard for me to keep up with all those quest-lines being thrown at me at once. I'm was trying to do one quest at the time but as if. Those Rivington quests all asked me to go all over the place. Things finally started to calm down once I got to lower city and I could slowly complete one location at the time. But overall, I'm running around doing quests I find and finishing my companions quest-lines, but the main storyline that lore-wise I'm supposed to focus on and deal with quickly is taking an extreme backseat, which really shouldn't happen at the finale. I'm leaving it for last, and hope that this way I will create a feeling of finale once again... but really, rather than me doing it intentionally, this game really needs some sort of act 4 that keeps that finale separate from all side quest hunting.

[@afhildlaani8321]

Man i freaking loved act 2, Kethric was so cool, his voice, armor, ambitions, faults, everything. For some reason, after the big boi exposition when venturing toward the city, i just lose all interest, and you explained very well why that happens (I have made it 3 times to the beginning of act 3, never got further)

[@mrl2126]

im currently stagnated bc im overwhelmed due to the many quests

[@Karolestube]

Hah, I thought I was alone in this idea! Totally agree, they couldn’d finish properly act 3, Gortash and Orin should’t share a whole act, so if they ended up short because of time leave Ketheric to the end, act 2 was well closed and complete.

[@Cyberlucy]

This is an interesting perspective. I kind of like things the way they are, but I definitely think this could work.

[@christophemortier5878]

Act 3 is the act with the most content, but you need to explore, you can rush it if you WANT.

[@Milie026]

I definitely went into act 3 expecting the Orin and Gortash fights to be super hard since they come after Ketheric and his fight felt so big and important, but they ended up feeling pretty minor in comparison (still fun though). It makes so much sense to have act 2 and act 3 flipped it almost feels like that's what they did at first and then changed it! it would make so much sense. With that said, I still enjoyed act 3 so much! I was so excited to get to baldur's gate by that time that it felt incredible to finally be there, and while it was a bit overwhelming on the first playthrough because there's so much you can do, it was nice to be able to explore and choose what to do next. It's not perfect, but it's still so enjoyable and as you said, the game is still absolutely incredible even with these flaws :)

[@emperortime4380]

Act 3 is underrated because it’s whatever the player makes it. Legitimately every boss is optional other than Orin. I remember kinda having a similar feeling during my first play through. It doesn’t really hold your hand and a lot of the cooler stuff is hidden behind exploration. I didn’t know you could fight Viconia until my second run.

[@DontPaniku]

I bet people would end up stalling out in Act 2 instead of Act 3. The story isn't the problem. The problem is that there is too much to distract you from the main quest in Act 3.

[@charlesboots6508]

I agree, this is a better plan than what we have now. But that's why, given how the game is set up currently, I actually prefer an "evil" playthrough, because it solves my 2 biggest problems; taking forever to get to the city, & then feeling obligated to do a bunch of stuff (Halsin's Act II quest, the Iron Throne & the Steel Watch Foundry, fighting Gortash in general) that I don't want to do, so I can get to the stuff I do want (the endgame gear & abilities I've been looking forward to for how many dozen hours) sooner.

[@Jottagelado]

The only real good villains in the game, are both Ketheric and Raphael. Ketheric raised the bar too much in the act 2. And Raphael got too underused in act 3, he could’ve been the end game (maybe by managing to fuck orin and gortash and getting the crown). The absolute is very meh.

[@MitchMyester]

It’s so wild to me that the Raphael confrontation is ultimately a side quest despite being built up over the whole game

[@Jottagelado]

@@MitchMyester indeed. I believe they had much bigger plans for him. Specially considering how he is the only fight to have a music with a lyric. It feels weirdly misplaced (it’s good tho)

[@Nirax3]

I completely disagree and want to bring your attention to something you left out of your argument: the dark urge. Larian developers have repeatedly stated that the 'truest' way to play BG3 is dark urge redemption, meaning they probably crafted the narrative with the dark urge PC in mind and that storyline makes 100% sense with act 2 being the turning point (Isobel) and act 3 the grand finale. And you wouldn't be able to swap locations bc that finale is tied to Baldur's Gate. Then, think of the emperor. He's a central and imho the most interesting character in the game that adds a whole lot of mystery, tension and interesting choices. Having his biggest secret (past identity) already revealed in act 2 makes no sense at all because his other secret (race) would have needed to be revealed before that and then what's left for him in act 3 and how would you have Orpheus fit into all of it? No, I think the narrative structure is fine as it is. If anything, act 2 imho lacks turning points for companion quests other than that of Shadowheart (which, yes, could also be a wrap up) and that's why it feels wrong as a second act. Imho act 2 has much more narrative problems than act 3 and I honestly don't get the love people have for it. I think it's depressing and tedious even though Kethric is a great villain. I'm always happy to leave it behind and I would have absolutely hated having to wrap up my epic journey in these shadow cursed wastelands - although getting to see how everything would have looked with the shadow curse lifted would have been a nice upgrade with a lot of narrative potential regardless of whether it's act 2 or 3 but alas...

[@seregons]

i can see your points, but i believe orin needs to be an act 3 villain since her defeat is the climax of durge’s story

[@Talwyn22]

After watching the video I have to agree with your analysis in that Acts 2 & 3 should have been swapped around. The story gets bogged down in act 3 with too many side quests and distractions, thus it loses the sense of inevitable doom because it feels like there is no real impetus to stop the Absolute. You can take your time, do numerous side quests that while are great, are really just filler. By having Ketheric as the penultimate boss, this would have a greater sense of danger and urgency. You would have a greater incentive to explore the shadow realm to discover the secrets therein, leading up to the final confrontation.

[@Steph1]

My boy makes a solid point

[@mrl2126]

i think act 3 should be split by two with some considerable lore relevant quest locking possible act 4, would make the story more flowy

[@redneck1st555]

I will have to admit that our thoughts on the game run along the same lines as I thought that act 3 should have actually been act 2.

[@markusturunen7929]

I actually agree, that they should have been swapped, because people would have wanted to explore city earlier, and Act 2 kinda feels more darker and epic than Act 3, The finale of the game should have been actually kind mix of Act 2 and the Finales of Act 3

[@chika4275]

The main reason why ACT 3 seems like a letdown is because of Starfield! this is a topic that is never brought up because of the number of GOTY awards and the worldwide acclaim of the game! Swen rushed BG3 to release because he was trying to get it out before Starfield. At that time Starfield was considered one of the most hyped games ever so instead of releasing the game and loosing sales Swen made a power move that hurt ACT 3! Data miners found removed content from the game, there was the missing upper city with quests for Minthara, Karlach and Wyll as well as a map for Avernus just tons of content! they definitely need the Definitive Edition but i don't think it's going to get made because Larian has moved on from BG3.

[@bria243]

I agree that it is obvious there were some thoughts for the Upper City, even if it was still Act 4. However, I think Larian also ended it here for money. Yes, they had some from people who bought it in the beta phase, but they still sunk a chunk of money in it, and needed to recoup it.

[@piotrbujak3688]

It’s about: I want sth new in bg3 while I know there will be none (apart from minor additions).

[@danlt1497]

Imo what makes act 2 so good is that you are under pressure on that brutal area before reaching legit level 9 max to face myrkul. If you swap shadowlands to act 3 it would kill the struggle and immersion big time because you would toast everything and nullify ambushes even if they get scaled to lvl 12 or more to give false illusion of challenge. Besides... you dont actually have to go act 3 if it bothers you, just blow Gale and start another campaign or just do crucial stuff or stop doing subquests when having enough and still proceed to blow Gale or face the brain. Else just take one step at a time and play other game alongside... game is good as it is.

[@elijahgtp]

im waiting for someone to make a mod for this. ALSO REMEMBER THE ARMY CAMP THATS ABOUT TO GO TO BALDURS GATE..... HOW ABOUT LET US GO ON A SUICIDE MISSION AND WOOP AS$$$ with all that beautiful op gear we got. SOMEON GET MY WORDS TO THE MODDING COMMUNITY!!!

[@MHFreak1997]

i have to disagree strongly.. After finishing Act 1 with so much content Act 2 really felt... empty like totally empty and it kinda is supposed to be empty but then again where is the fun in empty i didnt find it yet. its a total opposite of Act 3 which is filled to the top with content every house has a basement or cave even, there is an underground area and most importantly so many damn quests and a whole city to explore.. also there is alot to find out about gortash (you can even find his parents) and orin i did everything i could before paying them a visit so there already was a stronger connection for me and i literally spend 100 hours just looking around if that is not enough i dont know i cant understand your Criticism... honestly the Game is more than we ever deserved

[@JesusistheonetrueGod]

I bet there were no alphabets cut from the game.

[@jonnyboy0127]

Honestly yes. You can even travel between act 1 2 and 3 areas if they were swapped and not be locked out. You meet Jahiera in BG. And you rescue minsc this proves to her you're worthy of her trust so she informs about last light inn and she will be willing to help you there. Then when you transition to act 3 ( shadow lands) it'll play out as it did before. For shadowheart, you can keep it the same. Just through the whole journey. Since her eyes have been open her final act against shar is either she denied shar or accepted her by saving or killing nightsong. Hell even aligning with gortash makes more sense because he will offer to bring the steel watch to fight thorms army. Since they won't be affected by the shadow curse

[@joshualee3059]

Love it. Great vid.

[@iparizotto]

Leaving this for the algo love, but yeah, Baldur's Gate should have been a hub after the crash site. Maybe make it Crash Site > Mountain Pass > Baldur's Gate From Baldur's Gate you can go to the Creche (where maybe the Gith kidnapped the Tieflings while they were traversing the Mountain Pass so that area isn't entirely liminal) and Underdark all in preparation for the Shadowlands. Have your actions at the Creche and Underdark impact the city (maybe the Gith are sending raiding parties against the city but if you side with them you get their support in the final battle, maybe the myconids are expanding to the city as a way to fight back some encroaching of their habitat, maybe the steelwatch is built and controlled from the grymforge, etc etc) My wild ass guess is that Ketheric likely got cut because recording 10+ hours of dialogue with a massive hollywood star like J.K. Simmons would likely make the game impossibly expensive. Anyway, just armchair writing here. Thanks for the great take

[@korakys]

Here are some notes: Ketheric was going to join your camp as an advisor in an earlier version of the game. Gortash _can_ be killed at any time but it's pretty hard without going through the whole Steel Watch questline first. Originally Act 3 was split up into three separate linear zones: Rivington, Lower City, Upper City. Late in development Larian figured out the technology to allow you to go back and forth between the different zones "seamlessly" (their words). And _very_ late in development the Upper City portion was cut and a whole bunch of stuff moved around, including Gortash. There is a good chance that the Upper City will be restored in the Definitive Edition. If it is that goes some way towards crunching down that "overwhelmed" feeling a lot of people have as it gives you a clear order: kill Orin first, then Gortash. Ultimately I do think the "correct" order of villain battles is Ketheric ⇒ Orin ⇒ Gortash, even though Ketheric is the most developed and therefore most interesting villain. Orin is as shallow as a puddle of blood, but Gortash has potential with his parents there, sadly held back by his cringe emo styling. In one way though I really agree with you: having the shadow-cursed land on the main road from Eltural to Baldur's Gate makes no sense. Duke Ravengard got to Eltural somehow so there much be another road, why are the Tieflings trying to cross through a land that everyone in Eltural should know has been cursed for 100 years! I also wonder how the heck Gortash snuck a _castle sized brain_ under the city! In a lot of ways it makes sense to have the final fight at Moonrise Towers, but I'm not sure about switching out the order of the villains. Overall the required rewriting would be more extensive than you mention.

[@LazyFatBear]

Theres actually very little chance we get any new content past the next p7 evil endings

[@MoonsongReverb]

i'm ok playing act 3, thee is a few fun things to do there. It also feels rewarding ti me, to finish all the plotlines of everyone. The stuff with Gortash and Orin is fun. I like to kick Orin's butt for being that annoying :D As for Astarion you missed Raphael. If you take Astarion to the Last light Inn, you need to have them meet. Then he gives him another part of his quest ;) The biggest downside i see is how they didn't handle the performance issues. People with older computers are facing terrible lacks, the game gets unplayable for them. I am not one of them, i was able to see the changes. So many people pointed out bad performance and what do the devs do? Right, thy add more NPCs, like Wizard apperentices catsing danicing lights all the time. Looks cool, but it goes on the performance. I heard a lot of players who just skip act 3 and only play act 1 and 2. I always play it all and feel it's a real shame, not everyone can enjoy the game completely. I hope they wil do something about that in the next patch. I don't care how long it takes, i just hope it won't break things even more.

[@yeungscs]

Act 4 the Upper City

[@akihikosakurai4013]

Act 3 definitely feels the most boring tbh. I noticed that in my 2nd run i kind of rushed through act 3 cause there wasn't much that I missed in my 1st run. As compared to some act 1 content that I missed the first time

[@seifeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

Imo , the story should have started in Baldur's gate. You as an average Joe or w.e background you have chosen, doing some minor quests until you meet Gortash from afar, and then you hear about Baal's cultists, maybe even spotting Orin while she shapeshifts for w.e reason. Doing some minor quets to introduce us into the game and then finding out about the Illithids and jump into the main plot. You get kidnapped and then get tped to Act 1 and go from there into you go back into the City. I think this should have been the order of the game. I say this because a lot of characters in act 3 don't get any screen time, the biggest example I have is for example Lorroakan, I hate his guts but he didn't become a memorale villain in this game. Why? We basically say hello to him, go to camp, and then kill him off. He should have gotten more screentime and all we've got is hearing about his reputation from others. Also I disliked how small the city feels. You could have been doing one quest, and stepped on other totally differentt one by exploring the next building.

[@ajeleandr0]

Someone please make a MOD with these changes

[@skrotosd]

Man I’m literally saying it from day one

[@kmoustakas]

I threw Gortash out of the window at the coronation. That was so funny

[@vandalsavage2074]

Agreed.

[@trachinusdraco]

Sure but I doubt they'd go through such extensive overhaul

[@Zebozomi]

Investing

[@kleenex5760]

I completely agree with this video. I feel like act 2 is a perfect end game area, It would be a seamless fix to switch the two acts so that the buildup to endgame makes more sense.

[@hugenimrod]

Brilliant. Not just for BG3, but for CRPGs in general. In fact, I think your take here can be profitably applied to sandbox games. Say that Act One is the prelude of a sandbox environment and entering the City opens the whole world. There's no limit on whether additional "main quests/stories" are included afterwards. Another great feature of your thinking is the Elf Song Tavern. In table top characters often try to secure a base of operations. BG3 does an amazing job with a "temporary camp", but having specific lodgings (and therefore travel issues) would be an enhancement. Keep on rocking!

[@Supernova094]

I feel act 3 was good but just not as good as act 2 , Orin and ghortash boss fights are nowhere near as epic as ketheric / myrkul , tho loved Orin being everywhere and making me paranoid on my first run.

[@Maryyyschka]

OMG!!! Yes, swap them! That makes so much sense and I had never thought about it!

[@guilhermemelo3760]

It's a cool idea, I would make Baldur's act 2, shadow cursed act 3 then back to Baldur's for Orin and the brain. The game was clearly structured for the dark urge which makes Orin a big bad

[@MultiMangoPie]

Act 3 was pretty trash, some enjoyable moments like Raphael's battle, but it was a drag.

[@jedflis]

Cap, Donnie's can just complain about anything nowadays, for fucks sake

[@MitchMyester]

What do you got against Donnie’s?

[@tylervanderhoff7905]

Act 3 was probably the best

[@harisharis855]

Nope, act 3 is great.

[@diomed96]

it is good, but that's not the point of the video lol

[@jefferydavidson5347]

I realize how badly I am in the minority, but act 3 is personally where I started getting into the game. I felt like that’s where the game picked up and got interesting, and I think that without it, I wouldn’t have ended up replaying the game.