How to Get Muzzle Velocity Without a Chronograph

[@H2OSensei]

That was one of the best explanations on this topic. I've been watching a lot of videos on the topic and this one actually made sense. Thank you!

[@DeSousausmc]

I shoot 338 lapua so it’s almost cheaper to buy a chronograph than shoot 2 five round groups 😬

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

You're not wrong!

[@harperwelding9851]

I sold mine and bought a .50BMG. And it’s cheaper to shoot 🤣

[@Dmmartin141]

Yes the .50 BMG is cheaper to shoot! Lmao! Try shooting a .338-.378 Weatherby, Geezus. Talk about expensive! It’s about 50% more expensive than my Lapua! Both are Great cartridges but I’m in 100% agreement with you on AMMO conservation. $$$ is $$$. It’s about time for a ..416 Barrett now! Lol

[@KENTSNEED-q7z]

If you can afford the rifle you should afford the ammo

[@davidtart2976]

Do you reload

[@nevadadesertrat267]

Good Video and job of being able to get a clue. The only issue with this is BC is effected by everything from temp to velocity. Which means the farther you get out you will need to make small adjustments to the velocity. Like you said velocity will be close. But if you merely see the difference in impact between what the ballistics calculator says and reality. It is easy to get on target at long distances most of the time with just a few rounds. Give me that gun and if it has enough adjustment and sighted in 100yds. I can make one 1000yd shot then calculate out the difference between the calculator and reality make a 1000yd corrective scope adjustment. Then move to my 1 mile target add or subtract the percentage difference. I can then do the same thing at 2080yds. Then 2200yds. I did that with my 338lapua when I was forced to go with a different bullet and load. After sighting in at 100 it only took me 5 shots to get onto my 12 inch wide by 18 inch tall targets at 2200yds. Between shots 4 and 5 it was totally luck on that adjustment. Usual it takes several to actually start knocking them down. My pistol took 8 shots at 2200yd to get on target. Good job of explaining the basics. NDR

[@TOMMIETR7]

judging by the packers shirt hanging, in the background, OBVIOUSLY the smartest gun guy on youtube! great video, my friend. GO PACK GO!!!

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

🤜🤛

[@fog8969]

Haven't yet given it any thought, but you could probably apply and extend the same methodology to estimate velocity down range.

[@sjdjejdjjsjdjd]

Super helpful vortex-love these videos-really helpful getting myself oriented without the funds I’d like to have

[@Zekenificent]

Thank you so much for the simple explanation.

[@davidwilliams299]

Explained very well. Thanks

[@bryanmutchler4012]

How did your calculations compare to using an actual chronograph

[@bretthataway7674]

Yall should create an app for your long range ballistic calculator

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Fair point. The old one almost literally blew up. Still working to fix it and bring it back

[@Raul28153]

So I am watching this and wondering where the hell you are going until you say 14.25". Then a light went off. 300 Yards 14.25 inches drop & gravity is a constant Yah that's going to work just fine. the only variable is muzzle velocity. It's like a trig problem but with time and distance. Except the bullet drop is also a calculus problem because there's rate of change in drop speed. I do have a question: "How precise does the 300 yard measurement have to be?"

[@dannyhoward4363]

@Vortex Optics just out of curiosity, have you chronographed this rifle to see how close this method gets you to a true velocity reading?

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Chrono'd it at around 2650 roughly so we weren't perfect, but still closer than the 2710 listed on the box!

[@boceskia]

A one inch group at 300 yards is not average :-)

[@GRUFF..]

He said 1MOA at 300 yards. So a 3" group

[@johnral390]

How does this work if the stated BC of the projectile isn’t accurate?

[@jamiesloan5902]

I always start by subtracting 150 fps, from the advertised velocity on the box. This gets me very close.

[@sapago4166]

Lol

[@drd1924]

hahaha

[@lukehayward8042]

Depends on ya barrel length

[@2009statechamps1]

Love these types of videos! Keep 'em coming! Just wish that I had access to further ranges than I do.

[@turtlebeach3116]

So muzzle velocity is the speed of ur bullet comes out with right ? And the higher it is the longer it will travel straight forward right ? Is there anything else to know which is important about muzzle velocity ?

[@ulrikerudel6859]

Thank you for releasing the geek. Thats really helpful

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Always happy to do so :)

[@coffeemaninsanity8596]

Makes sense didn’t realize you could do it that way

[@waynetomkins5584]

Great video Jimmy, so simple yet accurate way of working things out without a huge expenditure, common sense wins out on this one for me, thanks again, cheers Wayne from OZ.

[@thelosalamosvoice8215]

Should one be expected to shoot a 1 moa group at 100 yards with iron sights?

[@drunkonlove]

ok then .308win - ballistic app shows 3.1inch drop at 200yards with factory velocity based on a 24inch test barrel, Me = shoots rifle - actual drop is 2.3 inches- with a 22inch barrel - WTF is going on? Only way to get that drop is to crank up the MV to like 2900fps, and it cant be doing that. or crank up the BC of the projectile from .279 to over .300, and its not that great a projectile. Anyone know how it can be less drop, with a shorter barrel? Group was an inch at 200 yards though.

[@Johnsormani]

While you’re at it it’s also a good idea to check if your scope is tracking true ( tall target test)

[@fishinglegend1000]

Absolute genius. Duh? Knowing velocity enables you to calculate bullet drop. He already knows the bullet drop!!!He just shot and measured it. Who cares what the velocity is? He already knows where the bullet hits and that is the whole object. Also the bullet manufacturers routinely exaggerate the BC and since this is part of the bullet drop calculation, and could be incorrect, the velocity is still unknown. Let the paper do the talking. All of the external bullet calculations mean little...Where is the bullet hitting the target. Jeez!!!!

[@taunteratwill1787]

It is slower than what the factory claims. SURPRIZE!!! 😂😂🤣🤣😂😂

[@russianamerican7397]

Just saying. Heads don't explode like watermelons... Bad comparison

[@Dany-rq5cm]

This is amazing! Thanks for the information. Cheers from Canada :)

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Glad you found it useful! Thanks for being a part of Vortex Nation!

[@Harry-ei7os]

Right i Just need to work on the first step........

[@Nickstain]

"not exactly easy to come by" kentucky Ballistics: 👀

[@bluesfanman1]

Sweet. I was worried there was going to be some goofy math involved in this. 👍🏻

[@Johnyrocket70]

you dont need to adjust the velocity, most apps have a trajectory validation screen, you go to estimated drop to enter the true drop and you are done and it calculates the correct velocity for that drop.

[@rkba4923]

Yea, it's more important to know where the point of impact is at any given range than how fast the bullet is going. At least for me anyway.

[@fomerbu]

So how do you know if it's velocity or BC?

[@rayb9053]

Thanks so much! I am new to long-range shooting, and this was extremely helpful!. It allowed me to hit a 12 x 12 target at 540 yards using my Howa M1500 APC 24" Heavy Barrel. I'm jazzed! 😊

[@of-Israel]

This is why I think it's hilarious everybody ran out and bought a 6.5 creedmoor, by far the majority of people don't even understand ballistics enough to be a better than average shooter, I use the Nikon BDC scope because guess what I'm an average shooter but I understand that if I shooted anything beyond 300 yards with my 30-06 or my 243 that there is going to be some error in my drops and drifts even out to 300 yards depending on the kind of crosswind that you may have you may have to seriously consider your drift. I have made some pretty good Kentucky windage shots on coyotes and deer but I have done it using my instincts and bullet drop reticle. My dad understands almost nothing about ballistics but he has pretty much only shot 243 most of his life and he can instinctively shoot better then most people sitting on a bench trying to figure out their ballistics. I'll never forget we stepped out a coyote shot at about 400 yd with a 40 mph crosswind and heavy snow, we had walked in to make a predator call on the edge of a ridge and they were down in the bottom goofing off and he said I'm going to shoot that's one right here I'm going to have to hold for the wind and it seemed like forever for that bullet to get there and the coyote just laid over stiff. Another one ran straight at us and that 243 bullet zipped it open from the bottom of its chest all the way it is ass, one got away the other one didn't get too far he got hammered three out of four at 400 plus yards I couldn't believe it. 3 coyotes 5 shots with a vintage model 700 243 and vintage redfield optic, Remington corelock 100 gr bullets.

[@SnowblindOtter]

This is called 'Trajectory Validation'. Strelok Pro has a dedicated feature for this, and is accurate enough to do this at 100yrds from a 50yrd zero to correct your estimated velocity AND ballistic coefficient. I use an acoustic chronograph app using my phone's microphone for my initial muzzle velocity estimates, and by using Strelok's validation I reliably can get within 3-4MOA of my intended point of aim at 100 yards or beyond using a .22 caliber pellet rifle shooting 870fps and a 4X fixed magnification scope zeroed at 50 yards. It's entirely unnecessary for me to have that kind of accuracy with an airgun at those ranges since I mainly shoot varmints at 50 yards or less, but, hey: soda cans have bad attitudes.

[@jamiesloan5902]

I've basically did this same thing before, to find out my "true" muzzle velocity. EVERY ammo company lies about their velocity. I doubt they all test their ammo in Denver, on a 100* day, with a 30" barrel. LOL. Jus sayin.... 22" bbl usually is about 150-200 fps less than advertised. For standard rifle ammo(.223, .243, .308, etc.)

[@adamsanislo5943]

To get the same velocity for every round they would have the trickle charge the last little bit of every round and you know they don't do that plus if you pay attention to electronic scales they are more prone to error just on the fact of temperature and a breeze you can get extra couple grains less or more of powder from a electronic then you would a balance scale.

[@kamiltamiola2066]

Thank you very much for your insights Jimmy. Super useful!

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Glad you found it helpful! :)

[@jimmyhunter8321]

Very good idea in a pinch without chrono. Why not do 100/200? Figure not enough drop to actually get a number you can work with? Especially with that round, I could see it with a .22LR or something being a better option. Just curious if you tried that first?

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Entirely caliber dependent - the drop between 100 and 200 yards with a .22LR might be sufficient to get a good difference to measure, but not with something like a 5.56, for example.

[@theviking5213]

Awesome vid thanx bro

[@hurricaneaquatics]

Hey! I was the 1k like! Free Razor Gen III right? ♥️ 😀. Great video guys.

[@Jaygorski]

Great video, that's how I do it.

[@shawnbilly78]

This is great! My range is in the mountains, My 400 yard target is uphill, I did use the HCD option on my range finder to set that target (bang on 400 yards HCD i am not sure horizontal measurement). Do you know if that will still give me accurate muzzle velocity with your method. OR should i just be finding a flatter place to use your method?

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

As long as you have the angle compensated distance, you should be good to go. Some ballistics calcs can actually even factor this in for you, too. If you have a calculator that can factor in the angle to get a proper distance and ballistic solution, then you should actually use the Line of Sight mode on your rangefinder, which will give you an angle in the display along with the straight-line distance, and then plug that angle into the calc. Best of luck!

[@stargazer2042]

This method is much more accurate for rifles. Pistols measured at shorter distances will have a drop that is in the noise.

[@cfm6229]

i love math so this is awesome!

[@beestoe993]

Before everybody and their dog had a chronograph we would just use published data for a given load/bullet. Which typically gives minute of paper plate results out to 400 ish yds. Precision shooting requires much more accurate information, but the basic math is the same. Knowing the bullet BC and bullet drop @ a given range will get you there.

[@highplains7777]

Ghettolistics my man.

[@lvcsslacker]

thank you constant g

[@Ohyeahcoolaid69]

Quite a good idea. Even if the ballistic app is a tad off, you know that once you line up the ballistic apps velocity per drop difference as close as possible and then it should sync up the ballistic trajectory from there on out. Another thing you can do with the Hornady ballistic app is to set say 300 yd for your farthest test distance and set your best estimate for velocity. Next, keeping the 300 yds in the shooting distance you can alter the zero range each way until you find the zero point that gives you the highest distance of drop from zero to the 300 yds or whatever furthest test distance. In my case at 2500 fps for given projectile, 70 yd zero and then to 300 yd second target gave me the largest spread of 16.92 inches. And as you stated, the larger the drop distance the more dramatic a difference and easier to gauge the variance. Thanks for the video, i will definitely be trying this on my next load development testing for accuracy. Two birds with one bullet per say as a 70 yd vs 300 yd accuracy given plus velocity estimation by each difference.

[@miguelvillalobos6028]

So if your hutting lower that neans you bullet is traveling slower and if you hit high that means you bullet is moveung faster

[@drone4higher]

Excellent

[@scukafish7248]

doing this test @ 200 instead of 300 less accurate ? my range only goes to 200 max .

[@rkba4923]

Probably more accurate since most people can shoot better closer than farther!

[@Dmmartin141]

For cartridges ranging 2000-2500 FPS every inch of barrel is ~ a 10 FPS gain. 2500-3000 FPS, 1” of barrel ~ 20 FPS 3000-3500, 1” of barrel ~ 30 FPS -Remington Arms

[@nevadadesertrat267]

I have heard all these myths also. NDR

[@DS-gd1xw]

I like what he is saying, I will definitely try this next time.

[@katashi222]

Do it the old fashioned way...paper and pen calculation....

[@trevanhollett5540]

Where did you get your barrel? Is it lightweight?

[@usafsoc]

Haha guessing game when ammo is hard to get. Right!

[@johnx9318]

Nice. Very helpful, thanks.

[@devinb3397]

My tikka .223 shoots 100fps over book velocities with a barrel that is 2” shorter than the one used in the book, pretty strange

[@devinb3397]

@MechServ MD 1:12 says on the barrel

[@Sydneywizard]

Can I ask why 300 yards and not 200 yards?

[@cemshow12]

Thanks for the help!!!

[@Jwilliamstech]

That's basicly my gun! Lol duracoated WW2 OD Green, Magpul stock coming soon!

[@Bens7799]

hello jimmy....im Beny from indonesia, I have done a speed test using a chronograph, what I want to ask is if I want to do a calibration, which is more important between referring to the BC (Ballistic Coefficient) value or speed (feed per second).....thank you jim and I really appreciate your answer ;)

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Hi Beny. BC is actually a function of bullet speed, so getting your proper muzzle velocity first is probably most important. From there, most ballistic apps should be able to back track and figure out your proper BC based on your projectile. - Jimmy

[@RaymondMares]

Absolutely excellent!

[@ronaldtreitner1460]

I've tried finding a ballistics chart online and you would think I'm the first guy to ever shoot a 30-06. I typed in my info and every chart gave me different info for the same numbers. one chart tried to tell me I'd have a drop rate of 500 at 300mm, really. so I eventually gave up since no charts are reliable. I figure the only way for me to get comfortable with long-range shooting, "if I had the money," would be to have a video/recording setup since I don't have a spotter, then just get a ton of ammo and figure out adjustments needed for each distance, but that will never happen since there are no long-distance ranges for at least 500 miles of me only small ranges to zero on so......... back in the army we zeroed our m16's at 100 with iron sights and for a 300 target, you just aimed for the top edge of the circle to account for the drop, no adjustments except to aim point. the only problem back then was many of us that fired expert didn't always have shot groups, we often put rounds through the same holes at 300m. I'm pretty much brand new to adjusting scopes since we never had scopes way back when I was in. plus since our m16's back then only had a drop of about a half-inch at 300m I find it hard to believe the charts telling me everything from 12 to 500 on a 300m target for my 30-06 are remotely close, I'd have to see for myself, but no ranges to do that on so.....

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Depending on how they do there calculations they can differ slightly. That is why it is always important to get out to the field and validate this data and come up with your own DOPE.

[@jacobcastro1885]

Keep an eye out for "sight adjustment" parameters in the app (I use Lapua's). I was getting wild solutions, when I realized a 2" adjustment at 100 was not the same 2 inch adjustment at 300.

[@withoutfurtheradoforever]

Thanks for the name drop, Bro! ( Twice 💖)

[@abseconPC]

I wonder how they came up with muzzle velocity and like the 1800

[@BogeyTheBear]

Shoot through a paper drum rotating at a set speed, then calculate from the offset angle between the entry and exit holes.

[@simonleland2873]

clever way to determine velocity but there are actually calculations you could use to eliminate the guessing. However, it's 2020 guessing is the name of the game.

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Certainly there are better ways - this is just a last resort method to use if you don't have the time, resources or know-how to do those calculations.

[@jimmyhunter8321]

Without a chrono? What are they? Lol

[@1scottburns]

How about you just spend a $100 bucks and get a chronograph. A lots of assumption not much better than using the data on the box.

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

There's always that route and it certainly is ideal, even still, plenty of people find themselves in situations where they maybe need to switch ammo but don't have a chrono around, or they forgot it at the range. This just goes to show that you can get closer to your actual Muzzle Velocity than the factory ammo would otherwise indicate without needing to make a trip all the way back to get a chrono. There will almost always be a discrepancy between actual and theoretical muzzle velocity based on what the box tells you and it will show up when you shoot at the target. Why continue to rely on the factory information when it's inaccuracy is showing right in front of your very eyes? Better to make a slight adjustment that still might not be perfect but that's a heck of a lot closer than to go off of clearly incorrect data.

[@WCGwkf]

What's the assumption though? You have the most real world data possible here. If your chrono gives you a velocity that turns out a wrong drop at 300 yards, what use to you is that?

[@scottparks95]

A $100 chronograph is generally about as good as this method and can vary drastically depending on lighting. A magnetospeed or lab radar give you the best chance of reliable info that is not affected by lighting conditions and have proven to be very consistent and accurate. The good news is that you can find the magneto sporter for just under $200

[@kevinhyde6561]

This is a good way to validate chronograph accuracy

[@jimmyhunter8321]

Why not rent the Doppler radar for a weekend? Some people would rather be within 25fps and spend the $100 on something else.

[@popadop91]

Have you guys tested the Hunter American stock yet? How do you guys like it? It looks awesome!

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Truthfully no - literally just popped it on the gun before the video and hoping to shoot very soon!

[@popadop91]

Thanks for getting back to me will you put up a video review ?

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

amanuel smith Will see what we can do! Thanks for the suggestion

[@danpisula3531]

Great tip. Thanks

[@HunterParkNZ]

This is how ive been calculating my ballistic velocity. Good to see someone put this in video 😀

[@FREEDOMEAGLE556]

Nice!

[@adamsanislo5943]

You do realize in the back of the reloading manuals they give you the velocities and the bullet drops for the bullet weights along with the energy output so you can figure the math out a lot quicker

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

We certainly realize that. We also realize those velocities are an average and will almost never actually translate perfectly over to your gun. They achieve those using their own unique firearms in their own unique locations with their own unique atmospherics, etc. We see discrepancies in muzzle velocities between our actual measured values with a chronograph or using a method like this and the values listed in the reloading manuals or on the back of the box of ammunition *All the time*. More often than not it is a significant discrepancy. For any kind of relative precision/accuracy, especially at long range, one should never assume those values in their ballistic solution and do their best to get true values with their own gun in their own environment.

[@rkba4923]

I run "try data" based on info provided by ammo manufacturer and then go out and shoot the rifle and load combo until I know exactly where it hits out to its max effective range in varying environmental conditions. Then I use that DOPE (Data on Previous Engagements) until I can't find that load or have to replace a barrel, etc. If you load your own, which I do for a couple of calibers, knowing MV is more important. When I'm shooting over the counter loads, I only need to know where the bullet hits at given ranges and similar environmental conditions. "Beware the man that knows his rifle." fwiw

[@zeropoint7665]

step 2...don't use a vortex rifle scope. Other than that, great vid.

[@leighyoung4023]

Go Pack Go!!!