How to identify a shorted ignition coil (Honda C.O.P.)

[@wyattoneable]

These type videos are valuable to me...a DIY guy that can't justify a scope for private use. However, the scope confirms (by visual wave forms) to confirm what you just did mechanically. Greatly appreciated.

[@gayleleslieleslie6635]

00p0p[pppppppppppp⁰]]p

[@REPOOCNITSUJ]

I can't believe it took me so long to find your channels. I'm trying to self educate and move from being a parts changer to a technician who can diagnose. Your material is helping more than you know. Just subscribed to the premium channel, hope to get the book soon. Thanks again for another great lesson!

[@sheeptoshepherd4624]

Mechanix 1033 I agree man he is good

[@seftonplayer32]

He's more than great, he's an automotive Einstein. He has basically taught us technicians to build the Atomic Bomb.

[@singseno2942]

Dear Danner, You are awesome to be here to provide valuable knowledge to me on the other side of the globe. Thank you so much and be healthy.

[@ScannerDanner]

Awesome! Thank you my friend

[@toyotatechMDT]

Outstanding video Paul. I'd recommend your premium channel to standard subscribers. A lot more detail to be had and great multi-part videos.

[@ScannerDanner]

Toyota Tech thanks bro!

[@danielgarcia9095]

ScannerDanner Mr Danner I am lost I am about to condemn the ecu on my 2003 altima 2.5 now what kind of signal am I looking for if vehicle dose not start, such as testing ign coils, cam sensor i need help or if you can tell me what page in your book to go to thank you more than enough for your videos

[@danielgarcia9095]

ScannerDanner Mr Danner I am lost I am about to condemn the ecu on my 2003 altima 2.5 now what kind of signal am I looking for if vehicle dose not start, such as testing ign coils, cam sensor i need help or if you can tell me what page in your book to go to thank you more than enough for your videos .

[@johnpowell7498]

Hey just a tip, I have a Honda odessy, There is actually an ignition fuse available on the fuse panel inside the van on the drives side. I have actually gotten this amp wave form you discussed in this video on my Vantage Pro using a fuse buddy. I did this an experiment on my own van after watching one of your premium channel videos LOL!!

[@brentowen9480]

I'm working on an 2002 Odyssey. I can drive the vehicle, MIL blinking and then check codes, no codes. Data with a Zeus shows current misfires. Also, the data doesn't seen to update if the mis goes away. I used the same method you're using to find a bad coil. Driver's door doesn't open so I didn't start with current loop on the ignition coil fuse-which, thanks Honda, wish every vehicle was that simple to look certain circuits.

[@rrmech11]

Paul camera work is awesome. Viewed the aeswave catalog. I found what I needed. Thank you again.

[@ScannerDanner]

+Richard Gill Thanks Richard!

[@crank-3606]

thanks for your videos. Not all instructors like to share experience at tech school the way you do your studens.nice job keep doing it.

[@ScannerDanner]

+crank-360 thanks bro

[@Ali_UsedCarBull]

wait the shop disconnected the converter thinking it was a restricted??? awesome video BTW, HUGE FAN!!

[@axenz1]

Hi , I want to see you replace a bad coil with a good/new one . I love to see the actual steady idle . Thanks

[@davidbellmechanical]

Nice work with the trigger placement; I like how you show your work on the go A shorted primary has an even steeper, near vertical initial slope?

[@ScannerDanner]

+David Bell that is correct. thanks!

[@joelcronrath6352]

That's why I love Honda's because the engineers for Honda build them for easy repairs!

[@VIC909B1]

That's funny, I just did the same thing on a 04 today at work and you can guess it was the same coil that was bad. This is the easiest way to check for a misfire on these engines granted could be anything but gives you a quick start in the Diagnosis. Had a 06 last year and someone decided not to tighten down the Plug enough and it bled combustion heat into the base of the Coil and ended up drilling the coil out because it swelled and finished it off screwing a drywall screw and using a slide hammer to get it out of the hole, what a mess.

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

That current ramp means way more heat in the driver inside the ECU. I saw a driver go bad in an ECU where the car was returned to the customer for the weekend with the bad swapped over coil still plugged it in. Have you seen a shorted secondary cook a driver?

[@josuemaldonado3415]

Paul good video, one ? , isn’t it bad to remove the plugs with a hot engine? That’s what I was thought, what’s your input on that?

[@noejitta]

another awesome video...another question...I looked at a Pico scope online a a bit pricey for me right now, I have a small hand occiliscope could I use that or possible get a old snap on vantage would one of those type of scope work

[@ScannerDanner]

Joe Nitta of course, I've done successful current ramping with my old mt2400 vantage. don't expect the detail, but it can be done and faults can be found

[@tommyjalapeno9169]

On the primary current waveform what would be the effect or change on the waveform on a snap throttle? Thoroughly enjoy your work and thanks

[@ScannerDanner]

Not much, depends on the control strategy. If they are using a current limit or ramp and fire design. I think this is a ramp and fire so you will not see much change at all. It takes the same amount of time to charge the coil regardless of RPM, you just need to start the process sooner or later based on piston position and speed.

[@brakedd]

Would you tell them to R&R the plugs as well as the coil? I've always liked recommending all coils when one goes bad since the others aren't far behind but that's been almost entirely on Fords. I haven't seen Honda ignition parts shit the bed since they had an igniter inside the distributor. EDIT: HA! I asked before I got to the end of the video.

[@iozel4633]

Hey Paul, another great vid thanks (I only just watched this one). Great tip about the headphones. Did you ever get round to doing anything more with Bluedriver? Thanks

[@Turbotomass]

A straight up line is a primary coil short and a slightly curved up line is a secondary coil short? But you say this secondary coil short pattern can be from a spark plug. How would you identify between a coil and a spark plug in the case of coil that's covered by an intake manifold?? ( smash a plug and compare with a bad coil.) I have a scope and amp clamp and I'm having a hard time interpreting the patterns correctly. A scope pattern legend with variables would be awesome.

[@cardoc2477]

one of your master piece.

[@israelzunigamascorro9300]

great video, your job is amazing. I love to see your videos and I have learned a lot with them, thank you for sharing your knoledge with us. take care and GOD bless you all the time

[@jnarez1]

Can you do a review of the blue driver tool you use and how good it is for a diy

[@mariocoronanotonlyimports8620]

Hey Paul... Thanks for all your Videos. I bought you book also. Quick comment or question. With a single channel scope like the uscope, could you just disconnect a coil and see which one changes and Identify the which one is which on the pattern by using the caused fault as an identifier?

[@shopyard87]

Great!!!

[@Bushougoma]

That vehicle still has the OEM Mitsuboshi belts. Those belts are usually replaced with the timing belt so I'd be willing to bet it's still has it's original timing belt. Unless it was only driven by grandma on Sundays I'd say it's way past the replacement interval :-). That owner should get it replaced before the pistons kiss the valves.

[@johnpresnell5824]

Blue Driver is a great device, had one for almost 2yrs, never without a scan tool.

[@hardcasthale4904]

Does it have live data? Graphing? Bi-directional controls? Customization PID's?

[@tam1381]

Nice video but could the garage you were visiting not find this problem ?.Enjoyed the vid thou.

[@SashaShubin]

Hello and thanks for your video! Can you advice me how to check ignition coils on Honda Fit. It has 8 one.

[@adccars359]

If you pull your c.o.p. and the bottom is pink instead of black. they are known faulty parts. If you have around 100k miles. I would also recommend a valve adjustment.

[@setitthen]

Can you not use an RPM metering tool or RPM sensor attached to the scope while pulling the plug. Then you may see changes RPM.

[@batbawls]

Great insight, keep doing what you do, thank you.

[@ScannerDanner]

John Smith I will, thanks!

[@sheeptoshepherd4624]

If you have the equipment, I agree, you should use it. I prefer visual over other senses. I know you should use all of your senses when working but I’m more of a visual person

[@carlosmel2882]

Will the scan tool show rpm change when disconnecting the coil for that test?

[@nemanjadzombic6101]

Great video as always.

[@claudionorjose3640]

Um teste simples mas eficiente. parabens pelo video

[@kevinbemused9907]

Paul never seen you use a power probe, do u recommend or a test light is all u need

[@ScannerDanner]

Kevin Bemused I just purchased a power probe 4 and the hook. I'll be showing them in action soon for sure. I wanted the hook for it's 5v output.

[@ozzstars_cars]

I always enjoy your vids

[@lukecartwright1803]

hey mr. danner. love your videos. i have recently purchased the autel ms908p. im looking into a scope. i heard that the autel scope isnt that great. what are your thoughts?

[@kevinbemused9907]

nice!!! cant wait to see the vids with the hook! im a big fan of yours!!!!

[@LSJUAN]

its pretty common on early to mid 2000's Honda/acura v6 for the spark plug on cyl 5 to back off. lol so I always pull all coils to look for evidence of that because once in a while you get an odd ball cylinder with a loose plug. its always when the plugs are due for replacement. ive seen a couple go as far as blowing coils out and causing all sorts of trouble removing the coil remains.

[@dor843088]

Hey paul I got your book great info in there it will help me a ton im sure . Next purchase is a scope is pico your recommendation ? Not sure I can afford one just yet. Even the 2 channel standard kit is expensive.

[@ScannerDanner]

Darren O Reilly Thanks Darren! Picoscope, Vantage, Modis, Verus all of these come with high recommendations. Each one has it's advantages.

[@adamm2716]

ScannerDanner Got my MODIS in the mail today!! Thanks Paul for all the videos

[@jayseg6]

Thank you so much for your video it helped me i was so stuck thank you so much again.

[@nicholas8479]

What happens to all the unburnt fuel in the dead cylinder? Does it just get push out the exhaust? If so, I guess loud backfires in the tailpipe are possible or expected?

[@ScannerDanner]

Yes it does, unless the PCM shuts down the injector on a known misfiring cylinder.

[@BlackBlade0001]

I have a P0304 on a 2014 grand Caravan, where you need to pull the intake manifold assembly off to get to the COP's. I was planning on doing a plug change on this vehicle anyways before this code came up, but was wondering if there is a way to test to make sure its not a bad COP for cylinder 4, without having to switch the plug to another cylinder, reassemble the intake etc to be able to run engine to see if the misfire has now switched to the other cylinder?

[@ScannerDanner]

Hey Chris. I think I just answered this on my forum?

[@BlackBlade0001]

LOL..yep, after I posted the question here, I remembered that the forum be a better place to discuss it further in more detail. Actually works pretty good to use the both of them to tie together some stuff, I find anyways..

[@untraditionalministries4588]

+ScannerDanner man i want to join your class but am discouraged because i dont have a scope but i do have scan tool test light voltmeter will i be able to keep up without scope r amp probe an all those other tools i cant afford right now? lol

[@georgebonney90]

Was the code for a bad cat the only reason it was replaced?

[@whsein44]

hi Paul ,one quick question ..can i measure amps with just a multimiter and a low current amp probe? and what clamp probe would you recomend to do this? thanks Paul.......

[@ScannerDanner]

whsein44 you can but you will not see what you need to see. these amperage events occur so fast that your multimeter would miss the event. watch my newest video, I am using an inexpensive scope called a uScope. It is an option for people wanting to do what I am doing at a much lower cost.

[@tahirahmad555]

wow you made that look simple. Thanks For sharing

[@ScannerDanner]

Thanks for watching!

[@mohamedelshamy2706]

Hi Paul , I think this test works in Toyota ... if disconnect Coil , ECM cut off INJECTION PULSES ,

[@mohamedelshamy2706]

Hi Paul , I think this test works in Toyota ... it would be easy to identify which cylinder has miss fire, but it would be difficult to identify another problem with Injection miss fire. in case of injection miss fire .... is it Injection problem? or ECM cut off injection pulse because of ignition problem

[@ScannerDanner]

Yes, on some Toyota models you cannot disconnect the coils as it interferes with the IGF (ignition confirmation) signal that is generated by the coils and is used for injection control.

[@johnpowell7498]

Also I have had a random misfire code on my odessy from a plugged up EGR port in the upper intake manifold. I cleaned the port and misfires went away, My only explanation is that with this port plugged all the EGR gases were being concentrated into two cylinders giving two cylinders a misfire code and a random misfire.

[@glasser2819]

John Powell txs for sharing your very logical conclusion. It seems almost anything can get these Honda V6 to misfire and get a shaky idle.. including a vacuum leak at a split engine mount. Their block is solid but the surounding parts (ignition COPs, mounts, mirors etc) are extra cheap with reduced life.

[@jnarez1]

You should do a review of this blue driver scan tool and how helpful would be for a diy guy?

[@ScannerDanner]

I've used it in a video or two but haven't done a review

[@nickayivor8432]

INTELLECTUAL Sir ScannerDanner Amazing footage 👌 Tutorial great Thank you very much helpful information video Take care and have a great day INTELLECTUAL Sir ScannerDanner From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧

[@michaeldoc430]

You can also use com ground to see all coils as well as the fuse.

[@ScannerDanner]

Michael Doc for sure and I should have mentioned that, thanks!

[@philh9238]

used this method today same year odyssey! didnt have a misfire dtc but it was misfiring under load. verus looks like a toy compared to the pico though!

[@ksauto1]

What app did you use to read the codes, and was it a paid or free version? Thanks for another great video!!!

[@ScannerDanner]

The app is free the device is $99

[@ksauto1]

ScannerDanner Thank you for your quick reply, I know you must be very busy and for you to take time out to answer these questions shows how great of a guy you really are. I was wondering though, what is the name of the app? Again, thanks so much for you valuable time!

[@ScannerDanner]

ksauto1 the scanner is made by bluedriver, it is a bluedriver app

[@acrittendoncrittendon4143]

One question. The garages you go to or the ones call you to trouble shoot.do they know how to do this stuff or just for you to film it to show us for case study reason. Just want to ask lol...

[@ScannerDanner]

Acrittendon Crittendon I've been doing "mobile diagnostics" for the past 15 years. At the peak of my "side business" I was working for 20 different garages in my area. Things have changed since I bring the camera with me now, I only work for about 3 different garages now. Filming just takes up so much time! So to answer your question, no, this isn't just for film. I am charging these garages for my services. This allows them to focus on their work load and not get bogged down with troubleshooting. It is a win, win. I make money, they mark up my diagnostic fee and then they get to do the fix (parts and labor) with 100% confidence in "selling the job"

[@acrittendoncrittendon4143]

Oh ok cool. very good work its what I like keep up the good work.

[@12vgs8606]

ScannerDanner But this particular one was so trivial that even I was able to direct my wife by phone when she was stuck 500 miles away in our Odyssey when a coil died while picking up our son from unviersity! A shop should NOT be calling you for *this* particular job. I understand why a shop would unload *all* type of misfire to you but it does not inspire confidence in the ability of that shop. You wouldn't want one of your student to become this type of a shop owner :-) I think I had this discussion with you before. And I am certainly NOT faulting YOU at all but still disappointed with the shop. If they had isolated the cylinder and then swapped/replace coil and plug and the problem was still there, then yes, you should have been called then. Seriously, almost every Odyssey of that era had at least a coil die on it and if one wrenches for living, he should know that.

[@ScannerDanner]

12vgs8606 Something that I suppose I should mention more often in these videos (and have many times), these garages I work for, most of the time are not even looking at these vehicles prior to my getting there. They are very busy and just simply leave it to me to do the diagnostics. I don't think from that perspective it makes the garage look bad at all! I just need to make this clear to the public. Thanks!

[@cwj9202]

ScannerDanner I think that is a great shop business practice when it become swamped - call in the cavalry for the sake of efficiency and for the benefit of the customer. A shorted secondary coil will cause less CEMF, thus the quickly rising current spike (of course, I am not telling you anything new!).

[@maharlikan11]

I wonder what size of torx bit you're using in removing one bolt for the ignition coil?

[@ScannerDanner]

sorry, I don't remember

[@maharlikan11]

@@ScannerDannerI got it, fix my odyssey, bad ignition coil on cyl no.3

[@andreagili4589]

Good one Paul! May i ask why you didn't use the coil on plug probe? Thanks in advance, have a good day :)

[@ScannerDanner]

Andrea Gili hard to get good signals on coils with the transistor inside of them like these ones.

[@andreagili4589]

ScannerDanner Understood :) thanks

[@jonathanhart54]

What would you use as a sync if you can’t get to a connector for a coil?

[@ScannerDanner]

I'd try to access the coil trigger signals at the PCM

[@AutoFocus-se]

Great video. what do you think about the latest Pico? It have some sweet updates :) Cheers.

[@ScannerDanner]

AutoFocus the picoscope is so awesome!

[@nicholaselias8542]

Hey paul, do you know if a 2 channel 2000 series picoscope is decent to start out with? It's pretty darn affordable compared to a 3 or 4 thousand series. the uscope looks nice but I want to get a picoscope for using on the PC

[@ScannerDanner]

+nicholas elias Ask the guys on autonerdz.com about the 2 channel pico. They would be able to answer better than me about it.

[@nicholaselias8542]

thnx will do!!!

[@nicholaselias8542]

Ive decided to save up for a bit and buy the ultimate package from autonerdz that comes with just about everything. Go big or go home lol.

[@nicholaselias8542]

Pulled the trigger and ordered a 4425 4 channel from autonerdz!!! Now I can practice looking at waveforms. I think it's going to be the best investment I've made

[@chukschi3759]

danner can you tell me all the input componant and output problem, cause i have an issue with an acura MDX 2004 with an electronic throttle body it had an engine replace after then the car never ran right again and it also lost communication.......i hook up my scantool and i got this codes P2649,U0107,P0108,P0108,P0113,P2631,P0098,P0155,P2127.

[@YouTube.TOM.A]

+Chuks Ihemere This is general [ non specific ] information look up each code online and make notes. [ I have reviewed your codes ] When you do engine changes you have to do a VIN [ number ] check to endure that the other engine will work properly. this is no easy undertaking. you obviously have communication between the OBD 2 plug and the engine computer, you need to verify communication between the Instrument cluster and the ECU and the ignition switch. Ensure that every connection is secured plus the grounding wires and straps, Check all Fuses. Look like a lot of sensors are lacking reference voltage / signal return / or Power [ or ground ] Your wiring harness or engine computer may not be compatible with the new engine. There is a difference between a Code reader and a /scanner. You need a scanner to inspect the ACTUAL VALUES of signals [ and other data PID s ] on all affected systems. Good luck.

[@chukschi3759]

thanks danner i ended up replacing the ECU..

[@pervezakhtar9264]

I have problem with Navigator 2006 it has a code P0303 cylinder 3.I already changed it’s spark plug but when I drove it had a code 30353 and the second is P0303 it came two times and the fourth was P0174 these codes are coming over and over again.So can you tell me how I can fix this problem.

[@ScannerDanner]

Move the ignition coil from the #3 cylinder to a different cylinder and see if your misfire codes move with it. You most likely have a bad coil.

[@streetfighters805]

Do you remember what code is it that it threw?

[@spaceghostpurpz4744]

Awesome vid your the man danner

[@Littles13579]

Can you use a scope if the issue is fuel related?

[@ScannerDanner]

Yes sir, check out my chapters 17 and 18 playlist right here on YT

[@d.d4184]

Another nice video.

[@FBobby]

Would using this method be able to detect a coil that is just starting to go bad but has not entirely failed yet?

[@ScannerDanner]

It is becoming more and more difficult to answer questions here. I have 80,000 people asking me for help now. So I have created a forum to help you guys better. It is free to join and we can exchange pictures, wiring diagrams and waveforms if needed to help guide you through the process of troubleshooting your vehicle. Thank you so much! Hope to see you there. Paul Danner (ScannerDanner) www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html

[@andriyselezen9513]

Why it's always the hardest to reach cylinder?

[@ScannerDanner]

lol right?

[@mobileautorepairbypacheco1806]

man you are the best!

[@NSXTACY420]

Awesome work!

[@laaribi_abdo]

you are very proffessionnal

[@TTRVision]

.... anyone knows why on a V shape engine mounted transversely the issues are always on the interior next to the firewall bank? :)

[@ScannerDanner]

Murphy's law

[@hardcasthale4904]

Greater heat build up?

[@chriscanty8214]

how much would a decent pico scope run and will they work on obd1 cars?

[@ScannerDanner]

+Chris Canty a scope is not year or model specific. It works on everything! As for how much? Go to my friends at www.aeswave.com and ask for Carlos or Mario

[@variablethrust]

excellent video

[@clapton924]

Sweetest sounding van ever! haha

[@MyTerryb]

Nice ...great job.. thanks

[@serchmarc]

i ve seen that bludriver obd2 in all the youtube mechanics channel,seems that brand payed youtubers toadvertise their product,,, Paul.. do you recommend that bluedriverobd2 or i better wait you make a good review , cause i dont have money to waste in all the crap from china that promise you to read all the codes and pids. thats why i dont have a scanner yet cause the only i can see is good is the snap on and its expensive and doesnt work in my country. I watch all your videos and i follow your recomendations thats why if i see the bluedriver in your video , i think can be cheap and good.. is it worth it?

[@ScannerDannerPremium]

You have to understand that ALL of these inexpensive scanners including ones that sync up with your phone are only providing generic or global obd2 information. So you cannot compare a $100 tool to a $4000 tool. You want bidirectional controls and oem information your going to pay for it.

[@joemilton7552]

The BlueDriver is pretty good, but I'd recommend the OBDLink - it's half the price of the BlueDriver and does all the same stuff. The Autel DS708 is an awesome step up from these, but it's around $800 and doesn't have a scope. Like Paul says, you have to pay to play.

[@MetalArrow]

My hood also tells me what's wrong with my car, but it's a different kind of hood.

[@mtrltoolman]

great video thank you.

[@retroguitarmaster]

I wonder how an arcing coil boot would look like on a scope, because the coil is technically good

[@markferraro5250]

great job paul just got a blue driver yesterday will be linking it to my ipad asap

[@fistfulpennies5792]

it had to be the middle back good easy troubleshoot

[@velocity550]

Why is it always the hardest part to get to that fails?

[@ScannerDanner]

velocity550 I know!

[@johnmckamy6398]

I try to tell people how it was back in the late 80's early 90's without the internet and they just don't understand .

[@raycruz8411]

Muffler miss fire in a 2000 blazer

[@ScannerDanner]

You can't expect me help you with such little information. On this channel we test things and I help you do that. We don't guess and throw parts at the car.

[@cesaralvarado515]

Good job

[@ScannerDanner]

+Cesar Alvarado thank you!

[@sakitlikod1]

Would that kill or shorten the life of catalytic converter running the engine too long ?

[@ScannerDanner]

What a misfire? Absolutely

[@ahmedshamy5315]

Hi Paul,It's a really nice video.I am an Automotive engineer working in Saudi Arabia and I have being in the filed 25 years ago. you said,at 8:17 that the spark plugs would be wet and it needs a minute to dry. I am working in Toyota disturber in Saudi Arabia. in Toyota, there is a signal feedback will be sent from secondary coil to computer to confirm that the spark differently is be generated. if the computer is not received this signal from a particular cylinder ,the computer would cut the fuel in this cylinder ......this is following to emission regulations which are be applicable in USA. I do not know if your Honda is the same or no. in addition, I would like to communicate with you about my Technical Articles which can be consider as On-Job-Training. if you want , I will send it . thanks again for your Video.

[@ScannerDanner]

Ahmed Shamy Thanks Ahmed. Yes, I am familiar with Toyota's IGF signals. Not all manufactures use this design. Ford for example simply relies on the misfire monitor to shut down coils. So basically just a high resolution crank sensor. And it isn't perfect. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpeynId3f7ScbZY This video link above melted the cats 2 times from a misfire on a system that is supposed to shut down the injectors.

[@JustinDancingHawk]

Murphy's law states it will always be the hardest one to get to!

[@NCPDFSB]

paul don't forget the pico scope waveform library, another valuable tool in diagnosis. www.picoauto.com/library/waveform-library

[@ScannerDanner]

NCPDFSB yes, the pico library. I should upload those (good and bad coil for this honda) thanks for the reminder!

[@jay7264]

Lol even with a dead miss its still smoother than an american engine

[@mtrltoolman]

This engine sounds like an old Blackstone engine lol

[@Carlitosway211]

Removed cat in fear of a clogged cat..... They don't have a back pressure gauge?! That's what they're for!

[@johnmckamy6398]

sounds like theres a vacuum leak