How to make box joints with the Incra LS Positioner

[@Otterbrookdesign]

Wow! Thank you so much! I didnt find the videos from incra helpfull at all but yours is MUCH better!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

That is very kind of you, Thank you for the feedback. Andy

[@michaelvandeveer42]

A terrific step by step demonstration of cutting box joints with the Incra LS positioner. Thanks for a great video.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you for your feedback, Glad you found it of use. Andy

[@richardfosmoen]

Great Job Buddy! You sold me on 3 things today.. 1. Incra LS Positioner 2. The Incra System and 3. Your Channel! See you soon... R.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Cheers Richard, Glad You enjoyed, and welcome to the channel. Andy

[@craigsummers317]

Very helpful. Thank you! Much more information than what is provided with the LS Positioner documentation.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

No problem, Glad you found it of value. Andy

[@RobertMSmith1]

Thanks for the great videos ! Please keep doing them ,they are very very helpful !

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Robt Smith Hi Robt, thank you for the feedback. Kind Regards Andy

[@t0dger]

Great to have you back.....good job as always,

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+t0dger Hi, Thank you, good to be back. The paint is still wet on this one - the video is still processing - the quality will get better over the next hour or so, then I can add the links and thumbnail. Just wanted to get it out. Talk soon Andy

[@omni7575]

Welcome back Andy. Another great video.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hello again, Glad you stuck with me. I missed making the videos and then getting involved in the comments. So glad to be back - thank you as always for the feedback. Talk soon Andy

[@davidjanis1997]

I know this video is old, however that is a great learning video! Thanks

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you David, Glad you found value in it. Andy

[@andrewgrzona6619]

Well done,I thoroughly enjoyed your explanation of this process 👍

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you for the feedback

[@jasonhubbard5422]

Wow. This is a great video. Thorough and articulate. First time viewer here. Subscribed with notiifications! Cheers from California!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Jason Hubbard Hi Jason, thank you for the feedback and welcome to the community. Glad you enjoyed the video, Talk soon Andy

[@hanzon1529]

Thank you for a clear, well-structured presentation. It will help as I attempt my first box joint using the LS positioner. I will be watching the video again perhaps several times, combined with actually making the joints. ( Not at the same time!!)

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, Glad you found it useful, the box joints come out really well and is a good joint to start with. Good luck, let me know if you have any questions. Andy

[@crobianman8055]

Great video. I made a dovetailed box for my pencils and pens last year using the Incra LS Positioner. It looks a treat. I'd struggle to make it using traditional hand tools and patience. Only problem is I found it much easier to find what I needed when everything simply sat in a cup. Doh!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Crobian Man Hello, and thank you for the feedback. LoL - I was actually thinking that when I dropped the various bits and bobs into the box, I now have to move things around to get to the stuff on the bottom. The other challenge of course is thinking of what else to make that is quick and easy to demo the other joints. I am not sure I really need 5 pencil boxes Box joint pencil box Through dovetail joint pencil box Blind dovetails joint pencil box Double dovetail joint pencil box Double double dovetails joint pencil box I am thinking that the dovetails are going to be on an MFT tray, small screws tend to drop through the 20mm holes.... How are you finding the Incra fence - it’s early days - but so far very impressed. Talk soon Andy

[@crobianman8055]

@@TheWoodgrafter Hi Andy. The fence is second to none and I wouldn't swap it for anything else on the market (I don't think there is a fence that you can truly compare it to). I've had it for several years. The only problem is as a weekend woodworker, when you haven't used it for 6 months you forget the basics and need to start reading the manual, almost from page 1. The templates are ingenious. If you use it regularly enough to retain the 'basics' of setup etc, it makes light work of routing I don't think I would otherwise attempt through intimidation. You will still need your scrap pieces but once everything is dialled in it's magic. As your MFT is central to your setup, a lovely dovetailed tray that you will see/use frequently is definitely the way to go. Keep up the great work on your channel. Cheers Duro

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Crobian Man Hi Duro, Yep going for the dovetailed tray, the one for the video will be made out of srap pine, but will probably be re-made out of something a little more exotic when I get the planner/jointer up and running. I love the Incra LS and it works so well on the MFT so not just great for joinery (the purpose I originally had in mind) I know what you meen by the retained knowledge aspect, but when you have sorted it in your head - it makes sense. Thanks again for watching, and taking the time to comment. Talk soon Andy

[@kenking4456]

Great video, very clear and well done. I would love to see you do a separate video on how you installed the bottom. I read that you made stopped grooves, seeing your process would be very helpful! Thanks very much!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Ken, I used the same technique on the drawers in the bookcase. This video may help kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGO4lWpvgdWcmqs Cheers Andy

[@srfracer8293]

@@TheWoodgrafter Thanks, Andy, watched the video and was exactly what I needed. Completed two boxes using your instruction. Very much appreciated>

[@akinarif7798]

Wow great videos with loads of useful info Thanks learnt a lot

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Akin Arif Hi Akin, Thank you for the feedback. Kind Regards Andy

[@frankkirschner]

Makes tensor calculus look easy. Maybe when I have my router table in front of me, it will make more sense. (15 to 17 week delivery!) Thanks for the detailed instructions.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

LOL, I know what you mean. However - when you have it in front of you, and break it down to the key steps. It becomes second nature. That is a long delivery time, but worth what wait. Let me know if you have any questions. Andy

[@davidandcarolh]

@Woodgrafter Hi, great video. I was wondering, did you come up with that "Cheat Sheet for Box Joints" that you show beginning at 7:03 in the video or did you download that from somewhere? I would love to have pdf copies of all joint cheat sheets if you have them. Many Thanks, Lester

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Cheers David, I came up with these, they are available on my web site, under the Incra Fence Course. This is part of the KZbin bundle. www.thewoodgrafter.com/courses/the-incra-ls-positioner/ Cheers Andy

[@multibusa]

Hi Andy So it looks to me like properly researching a subject is the wiser route rather than going half cocked and not reading issues others may have previously raised, which when all said and done we all know this to be the case. I have to put my honesty hat on and admit to not watching part 4 of your LS Positioner series where you fully discuss what you term to be “the elephant in the room “, my bad. You completely address the situation that I now find myself in, being that my Positioner does not have the reach when mounted on the MFT3 via the Kapex Crown Fence. And It’s annoyingly frustrating now realising the obvious staring back at me. I think that once I’d visualised your idea of utilising the Crown Fence for portability, I got on board very quickly thinking it would suit my needs perfectly, which to be fair it would provided I had a combination of the various extension tables available from festool. Even when I decided to take the modification of the Crown Fence one stage further than you had initially done, I still hadn’t considered the reach limitation, I think (I’m trying to save my embarrassment here) however that because I could see the Positioner mounted on your setup I made the daft mistake of assuming it worked and operated perfectly. To make me feel even dafter I have since read some conversations you had with some others pertaining to this exact issue. Still apart from my status dropping to “plank” level, no harm done or cash down the drain, just a little time. I don’t particularly want to outlay what is no denying a significant sum on Festool’s combination of extension tables to allow the Positioner to work with a router as there are other items I’m considering in the near immediate future, so a custom self build table is likely to be my solution to this issue but still incorporating the Positioner being mounted on the Crown Fence so that I have the same portability I was hoping for when I wish to rip or cross cut on my MFT3. Steve

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Steve Spiers Hi Steve, not sure what to advise - sorry you peaked to early. I am sure you will solve it, I don’t think it will be that hard to build an extension to give you the right fit. Let me know how it goes - there is loads of interest in connecting the fence to the table in different ways so please share. Cheers Andy

[@WasimBarri]

Loved the video Andy and are keen to try this but can't find your cheat sheet in MS Word format on your website.

[@erikmnelson77]

I just purchased a used LS positioner, and this is very helpful! On your "the templates will not adjust to match your stock" comment, have you seen the free software called pyRouterJig? It allows for custom templates. (I found it as my used jig came with zero templates, and I was looking to get started faster than shipping new ones would take) - Please ignore if you have addressed this later!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Erik, Yes I found out about the software after this video went live. Still haven’t tried it out though, but it is on my list of things to do. Thank you for getting in touch though. Andy

[@ljlatorre1943]

Thank you for your great videos. Could you or someone else please answer a question. After seeing the fence to center, then micro adjusting the fence to make a scoring cut, wouldn't that through off the first center setting. Thanks for the help.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+lj latorre Hi, thank you for the feedback. No, when you set the ctr, you then mark the Center with the slding scale on the Incra fence - that allows you to find the ctr again at any time. You are setting the ctr to ensure your joints are symmetrical. The scoring cut is a very shallow cut at the edge of the first socket, you then complete the socket and then cut the remaining sockets using the marks on the template. The template and the sliding scale are separate things, so doesn’t impact the ctr point in anyway. Hope this makes sense. Kind Regards Andy

[@ljlatorre1943]

@@TheWoodgrafter I just got my LS. Yes that's very helpful.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

lj latorre great news, I am sure you will love it. Let me know how you get on.

[@multibusa]

Hi Andy thanks for your reply. Blimey have you been speaking to my wife? All joking aside it wasn’t that I peaked too early as such with the attachment of my Positioner, but rather I didn’t take in all of the information properly from the video that you’d posted. No excuses really other than I had quite a lot going on at the time and the idea of being able to attach the Positioner via a simple modification to my Crown fence and then being able to quickly attach the system to any position on my MFT3 etc just seemed the perfect solution. It still is an ideal solution but with some limitations, which to be fair is true in designing any modular system, nothing can really be designed to attach a particular system to absolutely any other number of unlimited kit you care to mention. As I said it was completely my own fault for not taking note of all the information contained and or the comments related to this topic. I’m still deciding my options, as you rightly say making an add on table is relatively simple and I may well do that, however I’m also considering adapting the way my Kreg table works in my fixed bench. As it stands I originally made a perfect cut out for the Kreg router top which worked fine with the Kreg fence, but as we all know if the bench fits hard up against a wall then there is no room to fit the Positioner. So I’m also looking at modifying the section of bench top in which the Kreg is set in by fitting heavy duty telescopic draw sliders enabling it to slide out away from the wall sufficiently to fit the Positioner still attached via the Kapex Crown Fence. I would cut the bench top 100mm either side of the Kreg top and brace underneath perhaps with angle iron (The bench top is made from 25mm plywood) There is about 150mm of bench top between the edge of the bench top and the front edge of the Kreg top, which would allow me room to install two 30x30mm steel tube legs that could be folded up or down to support the Kreg top when I slide it out from the wall. This may we’ll be a blessing in disguise if I take this route because I won’t always need to use the Positioner on the Kreg router top as the Kreg fence will perform many normal routing operations, leaving the Positioner free to be used on my MFT3 for ripping etc as you demonstrated in your video. I’m not rushing into this given the glaring mistake I made by not thinking the process through properly but I imagine I’ll come up with a solution over the weekend. I’ll happily let you know how I overcome the issue and if you feel it may benefit some of your subscribers I’ll happily share the information. Steve

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Steve 127 Hi Steve. Look forward to the solution, as you say - most modular systems have an element of compromise - but as woodworkers we can solve any issue. Apart from the peaking to early issue of course. Cheers Andy

[@gcbound]

Thanks for this detailed video. I liked your cheat sheet. It boils down all the important info in one location (that I assume you could also refer back to later for a project if you wanted to do "more of the same"). Wonder if an enterprising guy or gal could design a custom template and print it off in plastic with a 3D printer such that it would fit in and slide as easily as the stock templates provided by Incra?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+gcbound Hi, and thank you for the comment. There is a tool you can download that allows you to creat custom templates. I haven’t had time to use it yet - but will be playing and talking about it at some point. So in theory - your wish has been granted. Have a look here for details. www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/20981-incra-ls-template-software/ Cheers Andy

[@gcbound]

@@TheWoodgrafter Thanks for the link. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks very promising. The "custom templates" make it sound a little fancy schmancy, but I think it can produce a basic design that allows the size (width) of the stock to be a given/fixed and the template adjusted, rather than the reverse where one might rip the stock to get it to a width that works with the supplied templates. I was wondering about the 3D plastic printing because I do like the way the supplied templates slide and stay within the housings. Thanks again!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+gcbound Sounds like a great excuse to look at a 3D printer :-) Cheers Andy

[@redbudfarm]

Welcome back!! Nice job, hope everything is good on the home front! Randy

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Randy, Thanks for the feedback - It's as good as its going to be on the home front but thank you for asking. Talks Soon Andy

[@mikebernard4762]

Nicely explained video

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Mike, Thank you for the feedback. Talk soon. Andy

[@joeanderson3423]

Most EXCELLENT Video. Going to get started on a box shortly (today). One question ... how did you attach the bottom ?? thx.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Joe, Basically a floating panel from memory. So a dado about 5mm up from the base. The dado slightly wider than the base. Does that make sense ? Andy

[@joeanderson3423]

​@@TheWoodgrafter Hi Andy and thanks for the quick response. For my two boxes ( which will hold drill bits and accessories related to a drill press), I plan to use the same stock for the bottom as the sides and ends, which is 1/2" MDF, sides are 20"x4", ends are 10"x4" and bottom is 20"x10" ... so far. I just now ordered the Incra Master Reference Guide with templates. So depending .... as YOU noted (THANKS !!) I may have to adjust the dimensions slightly to match the template I choose. I'm using a 1/2" Whiteside up cut spiral bit or Whiteside Combination (up/down spiral bit. For the top ... I'm using 1/4" MDF ... probably will just 'drop' into 'routed out ledge' (for lack of a better description) ... the cover is mainly to keep dust/metal out of the boxes when drilling. So ......

[@Parafinn1970]

Welcome back...

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hello Mr Lamp.... It's good to be back - I missed it. Still going to be a hectic month but trying to get the schedule back. Talk Soon. Andy

[@oldcodger4672]

Thanks for great videos. BTW INCRA is misspelled INRCA in the heading of a few of your videos. Cheers Chris

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Chris - thank you, that's what comes of last minute edits on the uploads. I will update the thumbnails. Cheers Andy

[@multibusa]

Hi Andy, I’ve been lurking for want of a better word on this channel now for a few weeks and have been impressed with your no nonsense informative approach to each of your videos. I have also subscribed and wish you every success with your channel. In particular I’ve been interested in the way you have adapted the Incra LS fence system to the MFT for cross/rip cutting and router work by utilising the crown stop for accurate portability between the various modes. I realise you took inspiration from elsewhere however you seemed to have taken it to the next level and in particular as you mentioned (albeit controversially as you put it) negated to a fair degree the need for a table saw in respect of smaller workshops where space is at a premium. I already have an MFT table along with a TS 75 and various tracks along with a Kapex 120 and crown stops, so I’m now virtually at the point of committing to purchasing the Incra LS. However I do have a dilemma to which I’d appreciate your thoughts and those of the other subscribers to your channel. Firstly I will need additional length so that I can perform 2.2m (preferably 2.4) rip cuts and also I will want to perform router operations with the LS. Now this is where it gets tricky. I already have a Kreg router table with a Kreg precision fence set into one of my workbenches. There is however a severe limitation to the width of material I can work on with the Kreg table mainly because the workbench with the RT inset is hard up against a wall and cannot be moved. So my thoughts having carefully studied your 4 videos on the LS is to employ a very similar setup but instead of using a Festool add on bench to house my router I’d like to utilise my Kreg RT top. I’d obviously need to make some kind of frame to support the Kreg RT and design an accurate rigid way of connecting it to my single MFT. I would cease to use the Kreg fence in favour of the Incra setup. One of the immediate benefits I see of using the Kreg RT top is that it has a much wider working area than I would get from using a Festool modular table connected to the end of my MFT plus as I already own it there is a cost saving too. (also there is a combination T track at the front of the table which can accommodate my feather boards and my Incra precision Miter fence HD. One other final question if I may please is I note you opted for the metric version of the LS which would be my preference too as I quit using the arduous imperial system years ago. However one of the most compelling reasons for wanting the LS apart from repeatable accuracy is the relative ease for other joinery such as dovetails and box joints etc. I note however though, that the metric version has about 50% fewer templates than the imperial version. Do you find this to be limiting your number of joint options and other than the ease of using metric over imperial, what was it that made you choose metric over imperial even knowing (I’m assuming you did) you were limiting your joint options by some 50%? Many thanks in advance for your input and advice.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Steve Spiers Hi Steve, I though I saw somebody lurking in the shadows. Glad you stepped forward and thank you for watching, subscribing and engaging with the channel. I would be aiming for a long working surface, the longest I could fit into the workshop, ideally it would all be MFT style for versatility. So your idea of building in a route into the table is a sound one. When not in use drop it down and you have the working surface back. As you know, the Kreg table is excellent, so I wouldn’t be changing it for the CMS. I would be tempted to build another MFT type table, but make it so you can move it away from the wall. You will find that this will improve the versatility of the table. So in effect you would have a long table with... Your MFT and then Your shop made MFT (giving you the rip length you are looking for) with the Incra fence at on end. In terms of fitting the fence to the end you can buy the Festool profile track - it is expensive - but that would give you the versatility of using the crown stops as your mounting plate and allowing the use of the various MFT clamps etc. That would be the easiest solution. Not sure if you can buy a third party track - I will have a look into that. Obviously you would need to be carful of where you mounted you router plate, otherwise you will cut into it with the rip cut. OR ensure you raise the material up from the bench of course. I like the fact that you have the T slot and the Incra Mitre, this is a good combination, and will allow you to make those cross cuts on the router table you will need. I use the CMS cross cut table for the same thing and would not live without that function. I do find the number of Incra templates limiting, BUT you can make your own templates, there is a spreadsheet that helps you with this - but I haven’t tried it yet. I also find the Incra Fence approach to joinery somewhat cumbersome (hence buying a second hand Leigh Jig). Let me explain - the through dovetails depend on having the ability to size the thickness of the stock to a precise measurement set by the router bit height. In a small shop you may not always have the room to have a thicknesser and may not have the time or hand skills to use a hand plane. So that stops the majority of folks using pre prepaired stock. The size of the board you can cut is limited, so if you want to build a blanket box, then you will struggle to make this joints on the Incra. Having that size board vertical on the table will be pretty tough - and the Incra angled fence - is not really strong enough to support that amount of weight. And the process has a steep learning curve, but when you have it in your mind is is pretty easy. HOWEVER - if you only use it every now and then you may find you have to re-learn every time. Don’t get me wrong, I love the fence and use it every day on the router table. BUT I don’t think it’s my go to solution for joinery. I am thinking of changing my layout over the next few months with a third MFT that will have a built in router table using the CMS module and an additional T slot to use the Incra Mitre gauge. All the MFT’s will be on wheels so I can move them around depending on the project. Joinery most likely will move to the Leigh Jig. Not sure if I have helped, let me know if you have any more questions. Cheers Andy

[@multibusa]

The Woodgrafter Hi Andy, thanks for taking the time to post such an in depth reply. Your advice and ongoing experience with the joinery function of the Incra LS you are sharing is extremely useful and has given me cause to have a re-think. I hadn’t thought about longer boards being somewhat cumbersome. I have a Record Power 250 planer/thicknesser on a wheeled cart enabling me to move it out of the way when not in use. Ironically I also own a Leigh dovetail jig with an additional metric finger plate template that I purchased from Amazon a few years back, however I’m embarrassed to say I’ve never used it. It’s not the current version but I’m led to believe it’s still a good product. It’s not that I was intimidated with the instructions but more that I just never seemed to have a spare few hours to set it up and practice with some scraps. It then eventually got put up in a mezzanine floor above my garage and sat there ever since. When I first saw your Incra LS videos I felt that it would have been a much less complicated way to cut dovetails and box joints, plus I really liked the idea of double contrasting coloured dovetail joints. I just hadn’t considered the limitations of trying to cut these joints on long boards with the LS. However I’m still keen to look at purchasing the Incra LS Positioner for all of the other myriad of precision of woodworking and joinery functions. You mentioned that you have purchased a used Leigh jig, how are you finding it to use ? I don’t think the chip extractor was available with my Leigh jig when I bought it but I think it can be purchased separately and retro fitted to the previous model to the current one. Not having chip extraction also put me off initially from using it. Cheers

[@multibusa]

The Woodgrafter Hi Andy I forgot to mention that I also purchased a UJK Parf guide system (mk1) that enables me to produce my own tops with extremely accurate 20mm holes as found in the MFT table, so making extended work surfaces and building a frame to attach to the single MFT that I currently own is not an issue.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Steve Spiers Hi Steve, Yes the Parf Guide system is really good, and a good way to go to make a long bench. Don’t get me wrong the Incra fence is good - and if you have the ability to thickness the stock then it works well. Also the double dove tails and double dove tails are excellent - and if you are making smaller show pieces then they really add value and beauty. The precision and the accuracy as a general fence on the MFT and the router table is a huge bonus and makes it worth the investememt just for that. I haven’t jumped into the Leigh as yet, I want to get the bookcase finished and then I will have the shop time to get up to speed. Having the ability to use the Leigh or the Incra is the ultimate solution as they both have strength and weakness. If it’s the DR4 then there is an upgrade kit that brings some new features that are worth having. I will be creating a series on it at some point so could be a good time to dust it off :-) Cheers Andy

[@multibusa]

The Woodgrafter Andy, again many thanks for taking time out to reply so thoroughly. It is very helpful to get another persons perspective especially when the advice or opinion is based on actual experience rather than conjecture as is often the case on KZbin. Or as the President would say “fake news”. I don’t make or post videos myself, not because I couldn’t from a technical point of view but because I do not feel I could do the subject matter in question justice. A better analogy might be that just because a person may have knowledge on a certain subject does not mean they would be proficient at teaching said subject. I have a vague idea of how much hard work goes into your blogs and channel but in particular I am very conscious how difficult it is to put subject matter across in an accurate and informative manor and with the trick of keeping your audience’s attention. Considering how relatively new your channel is, you are doing an admirable job in sharing your knowledge and experience. Ok that’s enough smoke blowing!! The main reason for the reply was to say that I am extremely keen to watch your proposed videos on the Leigh jig as would many other viewers I’m sure. Btw yes I have the D4 model and I’m pleased to learn that there is an upgrade kit bringing it more or less in line with their current model, however I’m particularly interested in the addition of a chip collector. I’ve seen a couple of videos on this jig and boy do they make a mess and from what I could tell, it appeared that the sheer amount of chips/dust created, drastically reduced visibility not to mention the cleanup afterwards.

[@testanley3]

Thank you for a very clear tutorial. I have the LS Positioner and look forward to putting it to task. Although this slightly off topic, I am curious as to your technique for cutting the dados for the box bottom panel without the slot showing outside of the box. Stopped dados? A slot cutting bit running the circumference of the dry assembled box? What are your groove dimensions, width and depth? Thanks!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Thomas, Thank you for your comments. Good question. I cut the dados before I glue up, I position them so that they run into the sockets on the long side and then use stopped dados on the short sides, that way the pins cover the dado on the end of the box, and the stopped dados cover the sides. I simply use a straight cut bit in the router table, sizes for the stock I use. so nominal 12mm ply would use a 12mm bit. As the ply is slightly undersized it works perfectly. In terms of depth, I tend to use a third of the stock size - so 18mm would have a 6mm depth of cut. Hope this helps. Andy

[@Tensquaremetreworkshop]

It is a lot easier to use a jig that references each cut to the one immediately previous. Means you are not relying on a visual reading. Plenty of designs on youtube. Arranging the sides to start on a peg and finish on a gap means that you can cut all four sides at once. Flip and rotate, repeat, and all done.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Mike, The point of the video was to show how to make the cut with the Incra system. The Incra has a positive stop the references the position so the visual is a guide, the lock is the ref. Cheers Andy

[@billdelaney3664]

When I watch you complete the routing and tap the pieces together, I ask myself, "What, no glue?" Is that the case? You don't need glue when the joinery is so tight?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Bill, The final joins was glued, this was more a demonstration how to make the box joint. On this type of joint you will need glue. Cheers Andy

[@billdelaney3664]

@@TheWoodgrafter thanks for your quick reply. Great teaching series!

[@michaelkerr7060]

Thanks for the video. I found your organised approach very helpful, particularly always referencing the top of the boards against the fence. Just one question - by setting up your scoring cut with the micro-adjuster, do you not alter your centring position? I know it’s not much but I think the adjuster needs to be turned back to zero before the main cut is made.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Michael, Thank you for the feedback. No is the simple answer, the zero poor t is set on the ruler on the Incra system. So you always come back to the same point. The scoring line is purely to give a clean cut. Cheers Andy

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, Thank you for watching my video, look forward to your comments. Cheers Andy

[@PhillipsTravels]

Would it be possible to have a copy of your cheat sheets for setting up the incra system?

[@anthonygrey9282]

Hi Andy, I am new to your channel. Some great videos on here. What are your thoughts on the Incra LS positioner 2 years on. Do you still have it, use it, etc? Cheers, Ant

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Ant Thank you for taking the time to get in touch. Simply put - 100% love it, probably ranks in the top 5 of tools in my workshop. Gets used every day in every project, it’s the go to tool for joinery as well as the go to fence system. Cheers Andy

[@johnedwardtaylor]

It says that free plans are available on your website. Does that include your "cheat sheet"? I could not find any plans there.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi John, All plans and support material are now available as part of the You tube bundle on the web site. I had to change this to cover admin costs and support the overhead of running the you tube videos. Cheers Andy

[@Tuxedo2680]

I think it's best to set the bit just a hair high so the fingers will be ever so slightly proud. This ensures that you don't end up with recessed box joints. Finished joints that are proud are easily sanded flush and those box sides have to be sanded anyway to remove glue marks. Finished joints that are even slightly recessed cannot be fixed.

[@Mike--K]

Unless you account for the slightly proud fingers when dimensioning the panels, the finished box will be slightly smaller in width and length. If the finger joints are very slightly recessed, the overall dimensions of the finished box will be larger than expected. Planing or sanding the sides and ends so the fingers are flush will remove the excess material and bring overall dimension of the box back to the desired size.

[@michaell7877]

Let me just say, figuring out the templates has to take practice...This has to be the best vids on how to use theses...Shouldn’t there be just a tad room for glue?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, The joints come together pretty well, not to tight so the glue up goes pretty smoothly. Never had one of these joints come apart. Like most things, when you take it step by step it makes sense. Just looks daunting when to first approach it. Cheers Andy

[@dougprentice1363]

How do you get slight clearance on the fingers? To me, this system cuts line to line. Line to line, I mean no clearance, a very tight fit, with no room for glue. I bought the incra DVD, watched every KZbin video I can find.... No one addresses this. Can someone help?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Doug Prentice Hi Doug, to be honest it’s not normally an issue, the joint ends up a good interference fit - so it allows for a very thin glue line on both side of the joint and is incredibly strong. Glue is strange that the less you have in the joint the stronger the bond, you really are talking microns. If you are concerned then you can adjust the fit by using the incremental adjustment. When you cut sockets on ONE of the boards (A as an example), make the cut at the first A position then back the fence off by one click of the adjuster, this will widen the joint by 0.05mm on one side. Then advance the incremental adjuster by two clicks, this will take you back to center and then widen the joint by 0.05mm on the other side. In effect you have now made all your A cuts 0.1mm wider than the B fingers. You would do this at all A positions across the board. This would then give you a clearance inside the joint. But to be honest, I have never needed to do this as the joints come out as a good fit. Hope this helps, and thank you for the comment. Kind Regards Andy

[@dougprentice1363]

@@TheWoodgrafter Ive made small boxes with no clearance, and it was fine. But when I made large plywood drawers, with a lot of fingers, I had a really hard time assembling them. So tight. I came across this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKbXqHdtd5uno6c He explains how and why he adds clearance. I used his method, and it came out fine. I was just wanting to use my incra ts on table saw, instead of messing around with sled, and jig. I may just add a .002 thick shim to my dado blade stack and use incra. I think that will give me .002/s clearance. So slots would be .377" and fingers would be .374" if I move fence .375.

[@Charlesredporsche]

I was hoping you would explain how to adjust the fit of the fingers.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Charles LaGreca Hi Charles, on the incra system you don’t adjust the fit of the fingers - it is set by a combination of the template and the Incra Lead Screw (LS). The LS sets a repeatable position to within franctions of a mm. Not sure if I have hit your question, please come back with any additional questions. Kind Regards Andy

[@Charlesredporsche]

@@TheWoodgrafter Thanks for the quick reply. I have an Incra fence that I use on my saw and my router. When I made finger joints on the router, the fingers came out too tight. I discovered that the bit was slightly undersize. Now I make box joints on the saw with a dado blade that I can shim to adjust the fit. I was wondering how to adjust the fit on a router table. Thanks

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Ah now it makes sense, sorry. It sounds like a tolerance issue with the router bit. The guides are designed to work with a high tolerance of bit. If the tolerance is out, and in your case it sounds like the bit is actually smaller than the stated size, you will run into the issue your are describing. It will be worth checking the diameter with a set of callipers to see if that is the issue. You could use the incremental adjuster to make an adjustment. So set up as normal and make your first 'a' cut, then before you move on to the next 'a' cut, back off the incremental adjuster by a click (0.05mm) and then make a cut. Then advance the incremental adjuster by two clicks (0.10mm) - this will take you back to the original cut and then add 0.05mm on the other side. Then repeat this across all of you 'a' cuts and 'b' cuts. You have then in effect made your fingers narrower and your socket wider by 0.10mm - by playing around with more increments you should be able to tune the fit to your router bit. BUT REMEMBER - take equal amounts of both sides of your cut to make sure everything lines up. Let me know how it goes - and check the diameter of your bit I think that is the issue. Hope this helps Andy

[@Charlesredporsche]

@@TheWoodgrafter Yes, I thought of doing what you described but that's a lot of fussing around. The bit had been sharpened and it got smaller in the process. I know because I measured it. Like I said, I've gone to a dado blade and I'm happy now. Thanks for the help.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Charles LaGreca Thank you for coming back on this, so it is a tolerance issue on the bit. That’s worth knowing and sharing with the community - so thank you. Agree, using the incremental adjuster would be a lot of messing, and I couldn’t be bothered - I would just buy a quality bit :-) Talk soon. Andy

[@takeniteasyfriend]

Thanks Andy. I liked how you went over the pre work with the spreadsheet. For box joints with equally-sized notches, I just learned we can stack all four sides together against the right angle fixture and offset the first two sides with an equal-width spacer. Once the first two are spaced, you remove the spacer and clamp all four sides down. Haven’t tried it yet, but if done right, apparently it only requires two cutting runs vs. four using the Incra “book” method. Method here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWW9Z4CgrK2hkNk

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Robert Hi Robert, yes you can do that, however I find that inaccuracies creep into the work. Any sligh misalignment of the stock when you stack it causes the joints to be off. If you have very well milled stock that is very square, very flat and exactly the same width - then it works. And is very quick. Like all these things it is worth trying and see how you get on. Thank you for sharing the tip. Cheers Andy

[@takeniteasyfriend]

Thanks for sharing that experience as I venture into my first cuts with my new Incra LS today. Look forward to watching more on your channel. Excellent instruction. Best

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Robert Thanks Robert, let me know how you get on. Cheers Andy

[@congmoos280]

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[@TheWoodgrafter]

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