How To Make Your Own Acrylic Thinner & Airbrush Cleaner - An Easy How To

  Рет қаралды 220,235

Barbatos Rex

Barbatos Rex

2 жыл бұрын

I this video I share my own recipe for Airbrush Cleaner and Thinner. These can be you with most airbrush acrylics across the board except for Vallejo, I still use Vallejo branded thinner for Vallejo paints..
Check below for the amounts needed for each liquid.
Cleaner:
3/4 Cup or 6oz Distilled Water
3/4 Cup or 6oz Simple Green or Windex/Window Cleaner
1/2 Cup or 4oz Isopropyl Alcohol 91 or 99%
10 Drops or Glycerin
Thinner:
1/2 Cup or 4oz Distilled Water
1/4 Cup or 2oz Isopropyl Alcohol 91 or 99%
10 ml Flow Improver
1ml Retarder
Get Glycerin here amzn.to/3wEt8AZ
Get Flow Improver Here amzn.to/35xgAzw
Get Vallejo Flow Improver Here ebay.us/OF5OA3
Get Retarder here amzn.to/3gCjQPc
Get Retarder Here amzn.to/2TCVOMa
Get Createx Retarder here spraygunner.com?aff=10
Squeeze Bottle for cleaner amzn.to/3wAwJju
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Пікірлер: 550
@GumbiiGrows
@GumbiiGrows Жыл бұрын
these videos are amazing, thanks... i got a smaller bottle at walmart, like a squirt bottle... so i had to modify your cleaner recipe... 3oz distilled water 3oz of windex 2oz of iso alcohol used 10 drops of glycerine works like a charm... man, that's so crazy, and cheap... since i had everything except the bottle already... thank you...
@edwardstone9963
@edwardstone9963 6 ай бұрын
So, I have a Hobby Lobby near me, I bought a 12oz bottle of Airbrush Thinner/Cleaner. Your formula works great for cleaning, now I can save the store bought stuff specifically for thinning. Thank you for taking the time to post your recipe to the masses.
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 6 ай бұрын
You're welcome Edward
@HandFromCoffin
@HandFromCoffin 2 жыл бұрын
I love this guy. he's the KING of low buck modeling. I"ll be doing this next time I order cleaner or thinner.
@cyberneticwarmachine
@cyberneticwarmachine 2 жыл бұрын
Seen this glycerin recipe before. Proves that the paint veterans experiment with alternatives that worked. Instead of buying expensive brand cleaners. Super cool
@clivemahony9827
@clivemahony9827 2 күн бұрын
Great video only starting with airbrush and looking for a good recipe this is a simple video thanks 👍
@jetsetjoey
@jetsetjoey 14 күн бұрын
This is just what I was seeking... Thank you!!
@johnodinsson3635
@johnodinsson3635 2 жыл бұрын
I can't wait to mix these up! Great video and excellent info! As always, thanks for your time and effort in making the video!
@wayneosmand7652
@wayneosmand7652 2 жыл бұрын
thank you so much for sharing these! I really enjoy your channel
@anthonyfoley3401
@anthonyfoley3401 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent stuff!!
@robbie.205
@robbie.205 2 жыл бұрын
Going to make some, thank you for sharing.
@markparsons4434
@markparsons4434 2 жыл бұрын
I have to be completely honest, this recipe was great at doing exactly what I needed. Probably even better than the shop bought ones, I just wish I had found this earlier. Keep the videos coming, great content as always. Brilliant.
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks buddy 👍
@DocbritoFMF
@DocbritoFMF 11 ай бұрын
​@@barbatosrex9473 I know this is an old video but does this thinner mix work with vellejo paints? I've found I can only use vellejo thinner with vellejo paints, and everything else turns vellejo to gun in my airbrush while on the other hand I've thinned Tamiya paints with nearly anything with out issue.
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 11 ай бұрын
@@DocbritoFMF this is true. Vallejo is a pain when it comes to thinners. I've only used their own till recently. I've found 3 that work. AK Interactive, Universal Model Products and Impresa. If you need links to these let me know
@DocbritoFMF
@DocbritoFMF 11 ай бұрын
@@barbatosrex9473 thank you for responding, that's kinda what I thought. I've heard that some people say Windex works with thinning and cleaning Vellejo paints Ive tried it with cleaning but not thinning, I have mixed reviews about vellejo on one hand I think there paints are convenient their colors great, but if your gonna airbrush it has to be their airbrush line of paints and can only be thinned with their thinner but either way I still get tip drying clogs. Their thinner smells to me similar to Windex and has the same soapy effect. I would say one of my biggest struggles with any paint is ratio mixing thinner to paint for the airbrush I use a lot of Tamiya products because they are the easiest for me to get with out ordering online and those jars produce a lot of waste when mixing .. some people say mix in the bowl others say mix separate before putting it in the gun either way is a lot of waste, the vellejo paints for what they are worth brush on nice if you wet pallet or thin with medium properly
@hhaste
@hhaste 5 ай бұрын
@@DocbritoFMF Flow improver will solve the tip drying issues
@JSTRonline2
@JSTRonline2 2 жыл бұрын
I accidentally bought simple green concentrated so keep that in mind if you go out to buy it. He’s using “ready to use”.
@KunaiKrazy
@KunaiKrazy 10 ай бұрын
Here I am saying I did the same thing. Going back to Kroger tomorrow and hopping on over to Wal-Mart. Bleh.
@footlingjohnson8014
@footlingjohnson8014 6 ай бұрын
The concentrated simple green works even better. 👍
@jameshopkins2800
@jameshopkins2800 5 ай бұрын
​@@footlingjohnson8014same measurement 1/2 cup?
@danielfritchley6649
@danielfritchley6649 4 ай бұрын
I used concentrated Simple Green also but I just doubled up everything and made 32 oz. With the concentrated Simple Green then when I put it into smaller spray bottle I just only fill half the mix and top with distilled water. Also I flush out the airbrush by stuffing the front of the brush and cup into straight distilled water and black into that cup it rinses and cleans residue I don't want as I go to the next color. Found doing that kept clogs and possible contamination out of the paint.
@temoorebaber4801
@temoorebaber4801 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks again for another great video.
@matteociancio
@matteociancio 2 жыл бұрын
Great Video Thanks !!!
@zeroa6
@zeroa6 Жыл бұрын
Another awesome video!
@andrewtucker3107
@andrewtucker3107 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for these valuable tips. As an artist, I am always looking for ways to economize. I have a tackle box full of artist's acrylic paint tubes from my hobby of producing aviation paintings. This info will save me the cost of buying a set of liquid acrylics and the space needed to store them. I'm 57 and getting back into building plastic kits again to use as subject matter in my aviation paintings and to have another avenue to practice craftsmanship and keep my mind focussed on something other than work and world events. That is to say, maintaining my sanity. 😄 Thank you again for the tips.
@budavargas
@budavargas 2 жыл бұрын
This is excelent. Thank you!
@jeffreyroberts7438
@jeffreyroberts7438 3 ай бұрын
Brilliant vid👍🇬🇧
@PirateMTH_ToddH
@PirateMTH_ToddH Жыл бұрын
Good info. Thanks for sharing!
@trevorhepburn2894
@trevorhepburn2894 2 жыл бұрын
I love your videos.I always lean so much thank you so much keep up the great job
@cjbopper3535
@cjbopper3535 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing 😁👍
@cafaque
@cafaque 5 ай бұрын
very helpful! thank you!
@RamBoyToy
@RamBoyToy 2 жыл бұрын
Thankx Rex gonna try this for sure
@vaughanza
@vaughanza 4 ай бұрын
Excellent video thanks
@mirocapin4759
@mirocapin4759 Жыл бұрын
SUPER VIDEO, THANKS!!!!
@stevenmenke618
@stevenmenke618 Жыл бұрын
Great Video I always love Watching
@andygilbert3300
@andygilbert3300 Жыл бұрын
Amazing value for sure
@capt.martin5169
@capt.martin5169 15 күн бұрын
Wow! Great info, thanks!
@biglouie69
@biglouie69 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent as always! You deserve many times the number of subscribers!
@gregorylawson8346
@gregorylawson8346 2 жыл бұрын
Another super video. Amazing how little tips help with the big picture. Rock on!
@MadZaxx
@MadZaxx Жыл бұрын
I really like your videos! Honest, easy to follow and fun. Thank you my friend!!!
@billhayes7383
@billhayes7383 3 ай бұрын
Thank you for this great video on making both solutions. Love your videos
@danrussell3439
@danrussell3439 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge with us. Excellent video.
@noelfrancisco5778
@noelfrancisco5778 10 ай бұрын
Thank you for sharing :)
@SuperPunchpunch
@SuperPunchpunch Жыл бұрын
Truly helpful video, thanks 🎉
@tommorgan6665
@tommorgan6665 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent!!! Thank you for this - saving me a fortune!
@TopBlokeChang
@TopBlokeChang Жыл бұрын
Thanks man great vid. I love your practical vids they’ve inspired me to test out new things, research how & why these products work. Why some are expensive vs cheap AND use my common sense. I’ve learned so much more from experimenting with different setup & materials. I would love to see someone come up with a DIY primer for airbrushing onto plastic.
@my2cents581
@my2cents581 Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much! ❤️🇨🇦
@PENFOLD1962
@PENFOLD1962 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your very clear & concise video which will come in handy and save money in the future. A massive THUMBS UP ALL DAY LONG. Take care my friend 👍😷👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
@mariottbunbury1985
@mariottbunbury1985 Жыл бұрын
This is a great video and has saved me plenty of dosh, you are the best my man
@Juan_Rivera835
@Juan_Rivera835 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks 😊
@petermotta1623
@petermotta1623 Жыл бұрын
Great video Thxs !
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 Жыл бұрын
Your welcome buddy 👍
@claudenewbolt2659
@claudenewbolt2659 2 жыл бұрын
I LIKE YOUR RECIPE FOR CLEANING AIR BRUSH, AND FOR THINNING ACRYLIC PAINTS.
@jamiesworkshop3198
@jamiesworkshop3198 2 жыл бұрын
Just got my bottles today!! I wrote the mix on the bottle with a sharpie. Thanks so much for your excellent videos!! You bring so much valuable information and clarity. I bought that paint mixer you recommended and it was the single best improvement to building models in the last 30 years. You're the best!!!! Thank you so much!!!
@rinsanityart6345
@rinsanityart6345 Жыл бұрын
Starting to get more serious into airbrushing. I've referenced this video several times, thank you for your contribution. I'm super grateful to you for this information!
@StruckWorx
@StruckWorx Жыл бұрын
Thank you
@ragingmando5956
@ragingmando5956 Жыл бұрын
Binging these videos is so therapeutic.
@scottlewis4364
@scottlewis4364 2 жыл бұрын
I made a batch of the cleaner, and I must say it was great. It cut right through the paint and cleaned my airbrush in no time. It's definitely will cut down on my cleaning time. A++
@insane18700
@insane18700 2 жыл бұрын
Another very well made video. Will be giving the cleaner a try for sure instead of buying what I have been buying. This method should keep me going for some time. Thanks
@jonharrison8780
@jonharrison8780 Жыл бұрын
I found out from Simple Green that the "ready to use" product that is mentioned in the video is a 10:1 dilution of the concentrate. No store in my area (Portland, Or.) sells the diluted version and someone posted that it is the most diluted , which would imply 30:1.
@THROTTLEPOWER
@THROTTLEPOWER 2 жыл бұрын
Great vid, thanks for sharing! Simple Green is great stuff...... 👍😉
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 2 жыл бұрын
Oh yes, that "Stuff" is awesome
@THROTTLEPOWER
@THROTTLEPOWER 2 жыл бұрын
@@barbatosrex9473 👍👍
@OzScalemodeling
@OzScalemodeling 2 жыл бұрын
Great way to save $$ and get quality cleaner and thinner! Well done ! Cheers 👍
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome buddy and as always thanks for watching 👍
@paulmcwilliams1709
@paulmcwilliams1709 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the recipes for the cleaner and the thinner. Making these yourself has to be cheaper than buying at your local hobby stores. These days you have to do everything you can to save money wherever it's possible! 👍👍
@RimsModels
@RimsModels 2 жыл бұрын
thanks for sharing this video my friend really helpful
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching my friend
@RRGreiner
@RRGreiner Жыл бұрын
In the navy we used simple green A LOT. That is some great stuff!
@ronmccabe1376
@ronmccabe1376 2 жыл бұрын
Great help to get started with air brushing. Thanks
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome buddy
@stephenpitell6087
@stephenpitell6087 3 ай бұрын
I especially appreciate the links supplied.
@chuppath1ngy
@chuppath1ngy 2 жыл бұрын
Another great video! Only thing I'd add is the Zep brand Sprayers from Lowe's/Home Depot are super super nice. My dad has some from like 15 years ago that are used almost daily. The cheap ones always break on me. Keep up the great work brother!
@jhoodfysh
@jhoodfysh 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Rex. I will getting the supplies in the next week.
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 2 жыл бұрын
That's great my friend. Keep me updated how it goes
@JohnSmith-lg1md
@JohnSmith-lg1md Жыл бұрын
Nvr knew about glycerine, nice tip
@edwardnash7411
@edwardnash7411 4 ай бұрын
thank you
@urbannpa
@urbannpa 6 ай бұрын
I went to the Dollar store and brought Eye Glass Cleaner....Works like a charm.
@josephbidal9874
@josephbidal9874 2 ай бұрын
thanks
@MileyonDisney
@MileyonDisney 2 жыл бұрын
This will come in very handy. I bought a bottle of thinner and went through it in no time. Thanks!
@ThomasMoore.1
@ThomasMoore.1 11 ай бұрын
A great video. Very helpful Money saved can be put toward more models/Airbrush
@cndbrn7975
@cndbrn7975 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks ..
@user-rk1po7km5t
@user-rk1po7km5t Жыл бұрын
I'm from NJ and I moved to Ohio 30 years ago and I have been watching your reviews and found that everything has had a positive result. Vinnie digiandomenico
@7arsenal11
@7arsenal11 Жыл бұрын
G'day mate, I'm so pleased I hooked into your videos. Such great recipes for cleaner and thinner. Here in Melbourne, Australia these products are expensive compared to the US so it it well worth it to find a recipe that uses minimal quantities rather than purchasing the natural thinner and cleaner. Great videos and I enjoyed your style of presentation. Also, I liked the tips you provided in the video of how to clean your airbrushes. Wonderful. Once again, thank you so much for sharing your expertise. Cheers Keiran
@jackrowlands8863
@jackrowlands8863 2 жыл бұрын
i like the way you mix your thinners
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks 👍
@seanpacificrailroad3700
@seanpacificrailroad3700 2 жыл бұрын
Sweet man you have a pretty cool channel I definitely had to subscribe to you thanks 😁
@W.edgewargames
@W.edgewargames 2 жыл бұрын
I just returned a defective AGPTEK airbrush and have a replacement in transit. Just have to jump on those supplies. Awesome video as usual Can't wait to start my first runs with an airbrush.
@timsears7541
@timsears7541 2 жыл бұрын
I have been using hot water as suggested by you and Lysol brand squeeze trigger( not spray). They both work excellent for cleaning airbrushes.
@trumpet3829
@trumpet3829 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you once again for another invaluble and most informative video. I will be keen to try these if I can get my hands on the raw products. Either way, I'm sure that you have given a solution (no pun intended) to a lot of people's problems and saved them a ton of money too. When we spend money on paint, we just want to buy colour, but each manufacturer seems to try and convince us that we need to buy THEIR thinners and other chemical agents in order to get the results we desire. So we all end up with shelves and boxes full of different products fro thinning and cleaning, etc, which probably aren't that different at all!
@ChocolateCylon
@ChocolateCylon Жыл бұрын
I’ll be mixing asap! Also looking forward to the Pro Acrylic paints video
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 Жыл бұрын
Did that Pro Acryl video a while back, great paint
@allanandersen2924
@allanandersen2924 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for a very informative and great video. I use both the recipe for the airbrush cleaner and the thinner for acrylic paint and it works perfectly. 👍👍 From DK 🇩🇰
@jenborrelli6371
@jenborrelli6371 2 жыл бұрын
HALLELUJAH!!! Took me so long to finally find someone to tell me the ingredients they use for both clearly and quickly! More importantly it took forever to find out if you can mix the flow-aid with the paint retarder! THANK YOU 🙏 I can’t tell you enough how much this helped! Thanks for explaining everything so easily! So many people complicate things! Ugh! Haha 😂
@iancarlin4694
@iancarlin4694 2 жыл бұрын
Good money saving video thanks. Quick tip - after tipping each measured ingredient into the bottle, mark the level with permanent marker or tape (permanent marker will come off if the solution gets onto the marks.). Next time no need for measuring again. 🙂
@jewellguitars
@jewellguitars 2 жыл бұрын
That's so simple it's brilliant! Thanks, Man!
@lancelehman1105
@lancelehman1105 2 жыл бұрын
Good video. Subscribed.
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks friend, welcome aboard 👍
@brianwalker7771
@brianwalker7771 2 жыл бұрын
Talk about timing I am sitting here cleaning an airbrush when BAM out of no were a recipe for homemade airbrush cleaner pops up.
@kevinlowe4845
@kevinlowe4845 Жыл бұрын
Your videos are awesome, I just bought my first airbrush,on your recommendation,the bought the harbor fright compressor with the airbrush including the airbrush I also bought the Amazon airbrush kit,can’t wait to start using it, again thanks for the video’s,great channel keep the videos coming
@tcandle695
@tcandle695 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the recipe. Now we need another one for Laquer and enamel paint. Cleaner and thinner.
@jaretmoskal5558
@jaretmoskal5558 2 жыл бұрын
Lacquer thinner for lacquer and mineral spirits for anything oil/enamel. Both will thin and clean those materials. Just make sure to flush your airbrush with water after cleaning
@saltykrug
@saltykrug 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you good sir! I was wondering if home made options worked well or were some closely guarded secret. This will save me some money since I clean my manual brushes with it as well.
@MadZaxx
@MadZaxx Жыл бұрын
I just made a second (250mL bottle) of this per your recipe. The first one worked so well!!!! Thank you again!
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 Жыл бұрын
That's awesome, this stuff works great
@andrewkeeney701
@andrewkeeney701 Жыл бұрын
Another super video. Thank you for spending the time to really cover the subject. I'm about ready to make my own. A question, do you know if Badger "Extender" is the same as "Flow Improver?" Also, where did you get that filtered funnel and do you know what size screen it has, or what size I should be looking for as I search for one? Thank you, Andy K
@stevenattaway
@stevenattaway Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this. I sprayed for the first time last night and made the mistake of using thinner made for Oil based paint. It clumped all the pain up and clogged up my spray gun. I then had to disassemble the entire gun to clean it. I have now learned I must use thinner intended for acrylic paint. I think I'll try your recipe to save some money.
@philipattard9018
@philipattard9018 Жыл бұрын
Like your channel great info on products.Does the home made airbrush cleaner wash out the Vallejo grey surface primer and the thinner is it OK to thin the Vallejo grey primer?Thanks
@Nutyp3092
@Nutyp3092 2 жыл бұрын
The cleaner works EXTREMELY well. I am amazed. Was able to finally get the ingredients together and wow. So little work to clean now. Of course my final clean for the session will still be a thorough clean, but man, stuff works.
@allanlowe9346
@allanlowe9346 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing some more of your tips. Could you also do one in your recipe for a home made lacquer thinner and cleaner
@jaretmoskal5558
@jaretmoskal5558 2 жыл бұрын
Lacquer thinner from Home Depot will thin and clean lacquer. I spray a lot of lacquer for woodworking
@lilbump406
@lilbump406 2 жыл бұрын
I use a simular cleaner. I just sub out the Simple Green with Fantastik. For a reducer I still prefer to use Createx 4011 or 4013. I only use Wicked and Createx paints.
@Cliffjumper24
@Cliffjumper24 2 жыл бұрын
Great video! I just made myself some of these and they worked perfectly. I did a test with Valljo Model Colour, Model Air and Citadel acrylics and it works perfectly. My only mistake was getting the Model Air mixture a touch too thin, but the Goldilocks Zone was wide enough to be forgiving spraying a thin coat and using the airbrush for drying too.
@L-owl
@L-owl 2 жыл бұрын
There's a vital ingredient in a couple of the acrylic airbrush cleaners and thinner such as Vallejo airbrush thinner: butyl cellosolve. You can make a DIY version of Vallejo airbrush thinner with 20% volume butyl cellosolve + distilled water. It even smells the same. The butyl cellosolve is also the same thing as Solvaset. It greatly decreases surface tension (better wetting/flowing), allows for much higher dilution because it actually dissolves the acrylic paint, and increases adhesion significantly as it is like decal solution.
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 2 жыл бұрын
Great info, where can I purchase it?
@L-owl
@L-owl 2 жыл бұрын
@@barbatosrex9473 I got a liter off of eBay from a company called Sierra Chemical. Was a bit pricey at I think $25, but makes a lot of diluted solution.
@charleseshenbaugh4651
@charleseshenbaugh4651 10 ай бұрын
I just ues carberator cleaner sprayed through the gun. It's quick and easy. Works for every kind of paints.
@vaperonly76
@vaperonly76 Жыл бұрын
Works really good. Saved me a lot of money. I was able to make 4 cleaners off of the 16fl oz 91% alcohol and 22fl oz simple green.
@barbatosrex9473
@barbatosrex9473 Жыл бұрын
That's great. I used mine an hour ago. Works every time 👍 thanks for watching
@Repairyman
@Repairyman Жыл бұрын
I was going to go with the Simple Green, but as its £15.99(about $20) for under 1 litre in the UK I decided on Mr Muscle Glass cleaner. Looking forward to trying it later. Cheers🍻
@christian2809
@christian2809 9 ай бұрын
How did your cleaner work out? Also dont have simple green here.
@JDsHouseofHobbies
@JDsHouseofHobbies Жыл бұрын
I found those bottles on Amazon. I'll have to order myself a set.
@TheRcEngineer
@TheRcEngineer 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for this money saver! Is there an european version of the simple green existing ?
@ErgonomicChair
@ErgonomicChair 5 ай бұрын
Thisis an amazingly thorough guide but ahh... I think I'll probably use aibrush thinner from Vallejo as it SHOULD always be formulated exactly the same and I know what to expect. These cleaners are cool though, IO have a ton of simple green for stripping acryllic paint.
@Perfusionist01
@Perfusionist01 2 жыл бұрын
Joe Fugate from Model Railroad Hobbyist e-magazine put out a book on acrylic painting for model railroaders. He suggested Armor All Glass Cleaner as am acrylic thinner. I have used it for several years and it works great for brush painting with several brands. I haven't sprayed it because I don't spray much due to health concerns. It runs about $3/bottle at Wal Mart and it's also good for cleaning spills or taking fingerprints off your glasses.
@heitormercaldi4753
@heitormercaldi4753 2 жыл бұрын
Great recipe, i was testing some homemade thinner for days. This one give me good control of thin lines. I adapted some materials from local market (Brazil) and use 9:1 (water: glicerin) as a retarder. Works great, just some dry at needle...
@sonofthanos5663
@sonofthanos5663 2 жыл бұрын
did u use all recipt for making thinner or just water n glicerij ?
@GC1412
@GC1412 Жыл бұрын
Do you have an alternative cleaner for Createx with their 4030 added to them? Also have you tried airbrushing Targets Mondo Llama paints yet? Bought a couple bottles and gonna test them during the fall possibly
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