How to Properly Adjust Your Saddle

[@beau4638]

Just got my first bike since middle school (27 now) and got a cheap retro spec Harper just to get started. Been really enjoying your videos as I re learn and learn more about biking. My butt hurts, that’s why I’m here now.

[@denomdemon]

Thanks for this. I'm currently on this bike fit journey of incremental adjustments and this helps.

[@FJ-xz7yy]

Kudos. You removed the "Premiers at" thingy

[@astrayagrarian]

I’m going to start off by saying I have always liked your KZbin channel and all the content you put out. That being said I happened to carefully review the clip(s) in this video of you riding, and I did so at different play back speeds. I know that saddle position and saddle height can also be influenced by preference just like the saddle itself but it definitely looks like you are over extending just a tad bit on your down stroke. The angle behind your knee as it open when you pedal downward is way too obtuse. I would suggest dropping the saddle height a little bit, maybe 5mm-10mm; this in turn will help prevent knee problems and also aid in the efficiency of power transfer. *edit* Did I forget to mention that I fit people on bikes?

[@joachimmacdonald2702]

Am I the only one who finds the way Zach tends to talk about topics he only really has a base level of knowledge about with absolute certainty kinda annoying?

[@astrayagrarian]

Joachim Macdonald I like him. He seems like a genuine person which is very hard to find nowadays. Wouldn’t mind meeting and hanging out with him one day (:

[@joachimmacdonald2702]

Imo he needs to drop that a good 20-30 mm at least

[@ThomasMTube]

I'm glad someone else said what I was thinking. His saddle height is far too high. At 5:23 you can see his right foot is having to rotate outwards at the bottom of the pedal stroke to extend his leg as the saddle is far too high.

[@Yearlykeep6]

Amazing timing posting this video-- I literally just got my new Brooks B17 Imperial for my Wabi Classic👌

[@trentdale]

Your “just right” is way too high. You shouldn’t have to go *almost* straight leg and toe down to pedal. Any bike fitter could tell you that.

[@janbonne]

Trent Dale I can see how with clipless or strapped how he doesn't need his ankle to be in neutral position at the lowest arc as long as he has immaculate pedal power spin habits

[@janbonne]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4OsiWiHbNKDpas shows how ppl have different ankle and toe angle and how it's not necessarily a crucial bike fit indicator when considering other factors

[@smallerfreeze]

Yes, tip toes touch the ground

[@davidbee9563]

I have leather saddles on my two bikes. Recently add a new B17 Narrow on the touring bike. They suggest a slight up angle on the saddle to place the weight bias to the sit bones. After doing this I find it more comfortable. On my city bike I think the height is about spot on. It is a fixed set up and I find from a rolling stop the pedals turn over with less effort. I am used to less padding so the Brooks has been comfortable from the start. At the track here in London (forestcityvelodrome), I used a plastic saddle with no padding just the vinyl cover. Keep up the good work.

[@CM-hb9ob]

Zach youre a fixie foo we will teach you the right way.

[@pierreagnoletti9188]

it's just me or your saddle is way too high?! your ankle shouldn't angle like that

[@stijnw8626]

Absolutely true, this will cause knee pain in no time. Most people on road bikes (same for many people on fixed gears) tend to put their saddle too high. "Bike fit Tuesday" from Francis Cade his channel is a better source for bike fitting tips. Don't get me wrong, I love this channel and fixed gear content it provides! ;)

[@pierreagnoletti9188]

Stijn W also saddle problems

[@stijnw8626]

@@pierreagnoletti9188 , Sure thing!

[@seanoconnell5996]

@@pierreagnoletti9188 how should I send Zach some pics of my bike??I got a very unique bike and I think everyone will like it,can u help me out?

[@pierreagnoletti9188]

Sean O'connell maybe there’s an email on a fixie points video ..don’t know bro

[@Trans_Canada_Highway]

3:40 how is this just right? is is clearly too high.

[@jeps0]

True that.

[@dernils6176]

Yeah. I was guilty of riding too high for quite some time as well, because I wanted to avoid knee pain as my knees have been a source of problems for around 10 years now. But doing to lead so getting sore hands while cycling because there is just too much weight on your hands if your saddle is too high. Even with gloves, my hands started to hurt asfter like 10 minutes of riding.

[@pw510577w]

Every bike shop should include a bike fit as part of the sales process. You as a customer has spent your hard earned money in their shop.

[@BluW13]

I love all your parts which I would like to get them soon. I am thinking about Wabi on my next bicycle. I have know Wabi from here.

[@albertoramiroruiz4999]

I rode u bikes the week I was in Taipei... those up hills are no joke... I wanna go back with my normal bike, it'll be so damn fun.

[@ranmiller1908]

Still looks high. Start low and increase until the sound and rhythm becomes unsteady, then back it off until it's smooth again.

[@AbeNomiks]

Can you do a tutorial on how to do your hair

[@manfredmanuel4547]

That Brooks(ish) saddle needs adjustment/tightening

[@Flyingredcactus]

thank you for the good explanations

[@techmundane3890]

Unrelated to this video but I flipped my motobecane over to fixed to get more bang for buck during this shutdown for coronavirus. I work more leg muscles when slowing downhills with fixed gear.

[@hpgrant601]

Motobecane Mirage Single Speed and working on Super Mirage Fixed build Stay Dangerous

[@dash7651]

Just a tip dont make it to high that it makes your legs fully streched

[@madcow412]

Yo man love the videos, I'm thinking of buying one of those bikes which may have a 26.8 mm seat post and I'm also wondering if when I do, if the brooks saddles work with that type of stem?

[@danlowcyy6446]

Thanks for the tip Zach 👍

[@leebridgwater]

Thanks Zach

[@dylancostello6800]

Thanks, this video is a lot of help!

[@gretamt-berlincyclingvideo5022]

Thumbs down for upwards facing saddles. ☠️ Thumbs up for your videos and KOPS. 🥳 Enjoyed! 👯‍♀️

[@nwimpney]

KOPS is garbage. It's nothing but a mediocre starting point for an average rider on an average bike. If you're short, or tall, or long/short legged for your height, it all goes out the window.

[@nwimpney]

@BeboSaab IMO, most bike fits are overrated. KOPS is going to have nothing to do with preventing injuries. I can get my knee over the pedal spindle by dropping the saddle down, and slamming it all the way back on the rails, or with the saddle way too high, and all the way forward on the rails. Both positions are going to be pretty bad. The way I do it is just get the saddle height correct first, with the seat in the middle of the rails. Get the stem and bar right for a comfortable reach in the position I want to ride in, then tweak the saddle fore-aft to get a reasonable balance of weight between my hands and butt. (possibly adjusting the saddle height or bars again, if moving the saddle messes with leg extension or reach too much) Essentially, if you feel like you're falling off the front, and leaning heavily on the bars, you move the saddle back a bit. Moving it back too far usually won't hurt anything, it'll just be inefficient, so I aim for the point where I've got just a little bit weight on my hands when I'm static. When pedaling hard, I don't want to feel like I'm pushing myself off the back of the saddle, or like I'm leaning on my hands.

[@death2pc]

Wrong. Nose up by around two degrees based on a straight edge running the ENTIRE length of the saddle. I won't bother explaining why.

[@KoolanceGamer680]

Fantastic video. thank you!

[@Not_Sure_]

Another great video by Zach. Thank you Zach.

[@ridewithgae1467]

Great Video Zach, Thanlk you

[@nobsky1]

Very thanks señor

[@freewheels7544]

8:24 is that a romanian mărţisor string?

[@aarondetmer946]

Hi Zach. Love your videos, very informative. One question on this video, with saddle height would your advice be the same for a mountain bike? or are your suggestions mainly for road bikes? thanks.

[@lucacycles8623]

3:41 I reckon this is too high dude, your foot is being pulled quite toe down at the bottom of the pedal stroke. 3:52 And you're knee wants to be a good 20 degrees off fully extended at the bottom of the pedal stroke

[@janbonne]

Luca Cycles it's not necessarily too high kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4OsiWiHbNKDpas

[@nwimpney]

The toe-down is fine if that's the way he likes to pedal, but yes, it's still too high IMO. Even if you pedal toe down, there should be more bend in the knees than that. If the toe down is not natural, but compensating for not reaching the pedals, that's even worse.

[@lucacycles8623]

@@nwimpney He's not toe down throughout the pedal stroke, it looks like his toe's benig pulled down at the bottom of the stroke (admittedly it may not be)

[@nwimpney]

@@lucacycles8623 some people "ankle" a bit when they ride. A lot of people even said that was correct technique for years, so if it's comfortable, go with it. For the record, though, I think his saddle is probably too high to be optimal for him, and is definitely too high to be suggesting as an example to others, because they might get the idea that's how their legs and ankles should look at full extension, when if that's not your natural ankle angle, you definitely shouldn't be having to point your toes down to reach the pedals. A good rule of thumb to make sure your saddle isn't too high is to sit with your weight on the seat, and try to fully extend your leg. If you can lock your knee without intentionally dropping your heel down, you've probably got it set too high. For one thing, a fixie noob going down hill is often a little uncontrolled, with their legs being driven by the pedals, rather than the reverse. It's far too easy for that flailing to lead to a knee overextending, and being driven straight legged up in the air. pain follows.

[@lucacycles8623]

@@nwimpney completely agree

[@ryandirkse4374]

Thank for the vid!!!!

[@klarkolofsson]

Video starts at 1:27 (sorry Zach love ya dude) EDIT: 4:14 actually. The first minutes are for the seatpost.

[@renefybb]

you should review a throne supreme low 👍🏽

[@geraldg4631]

rene garcia he thinks Throne is a goofy brand

[@coachben8668]

Love this

[@RusselGapasin]

salamat po

[@gnc_nicholairemsuing1421]

Proud 🇵🇭❤

[@pewpew2375]

Hey Zach where did you get your seatpost?

[@brockvargas1726]

Does anyone know if maybe the saddle may have something to do with... you know being to soft when you need to be hard? Like playing pool with a string... playing baseball with a rope?

[@seanoconnell5996]

Possibly, which social media sites should I send Zach pics of my bike??I have a very rare cool bike I think everyone will enjoy,can u help me out??

[@CM-hb9ob]

Ye will change look at his saddle it's fatasf and some like me have fizik which are more slick and stealth look instead if a fat big Brooks

[@nwimpney]

you want a saddle that holds you up by the ass bones, not by your crotch. Soft saddles are bad, because your ass bones sink into them, and the padding pushes in where it doesn't belong. Aim for something that's fairly hard. It can have some hard foam padding, but it shouldn't be thick. Sit on it in your normal riding position, and you should feel your ass bones on the seat. Depending on the angle of your hips when you ride, you may need a flatter or more curved seat. Usually if your hips are more upright, you want a flatter saddle. This isn't necessarily a racer vs cruiser thing. some people will bend forward from their back, and some will rock their hips forward. What matters is that the sit bones are on the seat, and the edge of the saddle doesn't dig into the back of your leg when you pedal. If you're new to riding on a hard saddle, it'll probably give you a sore ass the first few times you ride, but you'll get used to that and it won't bother you anymore. You shouldn't just put up with having your junk go numb on long rides, that can cause actual damage. A hard saddle's a little uncomfortable at the start of a ride, and a little uncomfortable 100k later. A soft saddle's great for the first 5k, and gets progressively worse.

[@nwimpney]

​@BeboSaab The problem with your logic is that you compress the soft foam under your sit bones, and the soft foam between them still pushes upward, cutouts can help, but they're not always right either. The problem is still that your sit bones sink in towards the back of the seat, and your weight gets held up by the two ridges of seat surrounding the cutout further forward. If a person is heavier (whether they're fat or not) they need harder foam, not thicker foam, so they don't sink into it as badly. As far as flexibility goes, that's probably somewhat true, but for sitting upright, what's more important is that the saddle is flatter side to side. I'm 6'4" and 210lb, so while I'm not really fat, I do still have a fair bit of weight on my saddle. I also curve my back a lot when I'm riding, so I've still got my hips vertical, same as someone who's sitting upright on a more comfort oriented setup. It did take me a while to learn that the padding is a lie. It only makes it seem more comfortable when you first sit on the bike. It doesn't support your sit bones properly, so it'll always be uncomfortable on longer rides.

[@nwimpney]

Maybe the fizik arione would be good for OP if he sits with his hips fairly upright. It is a fairly flat saddle, and is certainly worth a sit if he can find one in a LBS and give it a spin. Maybe it wouldn't. It's definitely not my favourite saddle. My point was mostly just that more coosh often the wrong way to fix saddle problems, and explained what I look for in a saddle. Recommending 2 specific saddles "Fat guys will like the serfas RX, skinny guys charge spoon" is just silly. Anyway. I doubt anyone's following this thread anymore.

[@StuckOnAFireHydrant]

Damnit "extreme proportions" 😂😂😂 my torso is way longer than the average person. I get a weird hip soreness while riding occasionally but it only happens sometimes. I'm gonna assume it is a bike fit problem cause my stem is 170mm and that reach is pretty long even for my long torsoed self. Great video as always Zach!

[@nwimpney]

If you have a 170mm stem, it's almost definitely a problem. If you actually needed that to get into a comfortable riding position, you should likely have a bigger frame instead. If you find you're over-reaching, switch to something of a sane length, and you're probably good to go.

[@StuckOnAFireHydrant]

@@nwimpney I bought the bike used. Still working on restoring it (while riding it at the same time) A little counterintuitive but like I love the bike. It's a 90s ciöcc frame. I'm thinking of going with like a 60mm stem maybe a little longer. But the frame is the right size for me

[@nwimpney]

@@StuckOnAFireHydrant well, the reach is the main thing that should decide your frame length, and the stem is one way to adjust that slightly, but within reason. In general going too short on the stem could make the bike feel a little twitchy, since normally the weight on your hands being ahead of the steering axis is one of the major centering forces for the controls. Too long will steer like a freight train. going from 170 to 60 is a huge change. I'd suggest borrowing a stem if you know anyone who's into bikes, and see how you like it, or just buy the cheapest ones you can find, so you can experiment a bit. No point going out and buying something with max bling, and finding out that you don't like the way the bike feels. There's no real rules though. I'm kind of the opposite from you, being quite tall but very long in the legs, and I like fairly twitchy steering, so I use quite a short effective stem length. like a 60-80mm angled stem flipped so it's angled up. (making it act even a little shorter)

[@StuckOnAFireHydrant]

@@nwimpney I feel like I might like the twitchier steering as I always find myself riding with my hands way behind the hoods. I'll probably start out trying out an 80mm one before I go shorter though. That's for the tips man! You don't happen to know anything about the Fuji steel track bike do you? I've been thinking of that as my first fixie/track bike since I live relatively close to a velodrome and I always wanted to try racing on it. I mean not now with this whole pandemic thing but in the future

[@nwimpney]

@@StuckOnAFireHydrant No, I don't know it off hand, but there's not a whole lot to worry about for a basic track bike. The main things to look for is that it has geometry that's actually meant for a track. Most importantly relatively high bottom bracket. BB drop on the geometry chart should probably be less than 65mm or so. My bike is 55mm, and I rarely bang the pedals. Some people have had bikes at our local track which are sold as track bikes, but have a 70+mm drop, and are really intended more for fixie road use. They quite regularly bang pedals and crash on the track. For the same reason, relatively short cranks. 165mm are common. Also, make sure proper single-speed/track chainrings are available in a BCD matching the crankset, and that your hub fits a lock-ring. Lots of people ride without lock rings, but IMO, when you're not allowed to have brakes, you want zero chance of your sprocket coming loose when you try to slow down. Ideally, if you can get a hub intended to be fixed/fixed (lockring threads on both sides), then you can set it up with 2 different gears, and save a little time swapping for timetrials, or sprints, etc. beyond that, most of the differences are just feel. Usually track bikes have a steeper headtube and less offset, but the difference isn't enormous people often say they handle faster, but it's not really the case, since the two differences cancel out to some degree. Probably doesn't hurt to check with the people at your velodrome, and see what's allowed, and if they have any good suggestions. My local track is short with steep corners. 200m long, 47 degree banking on the corners, 15 degrees on the straight, so really only legit track bikes work. Brakes are not allowed. Some outdoor 400m tracks are flat enough that they'll even allow normal road bikes for non-racing events, so depending on your track, you might have more options.

[@TL243]

Once you get the feeling right. Use the plumb line from the nose and document the measurement from the center of the bottom bracket for your set back. And dude. Stretch that brooks its ready for tensioning!!!

[@klarkolofsson]

7:23 Ultimate boomer fixie

[@Godspeed961]

I adjust my saddle with 110% method. maybe its low as you describe here. when i try to sprint i feel iam in the air ( just few millimeters), is this right? Or you have to be locked at the saddle when you push the pedals or try to sprint? (my saddle front angle is sightly looked down)

[@juliancai2164]

How about slamming the saddle forward trying to match it with the bottom bracket for more power transfer?

[@nwimpney]

doesn't work that way. If you're trying to get more weight on the pedals, you would want your CG over the BB, not your seat. If your seat is too far forward, you'll end up leaning hard on the bars, and probably capable of less power. (Of course, unless you're talking about bottom end acceleration only, you're not usually limited by the weight on the pedals.)

[@death2pc]

The myopic new age forward saddle position translates to lower power output. By all means, hop on that train wreck.

[@NoFaceNoNameee]

Where Can i buy your stickers Fixie Points ??

[@Radnally]

Is nether reagion in Netherland?

[@ashleighmason4982]

My proper angle is just between those two notches on one bolt seat post 😔

[@brianwright3014]

Your like five months late Zach, requested this video months ago! Jk thanks!

[@butchergaming3945]

Can i ask you something Can you use fixie cog on a mtb thread type mtb hub?? Or put on fixie hubs on mtb frame Tnx pls notice this comment

[@stevenmacale1522]

Fixie hubs is the way to go, just add nut spacers to get the wheel straight

[@mauricioatienzajr3680]

Can you ship a saddle for me in the Philippines 😭please😭

[@solarrain1176]

3:38 Most cyclists accually have their saddles too high. Your "just right" saddle high seems too high... You should not be able to fully extend your leg for each pedal stroke if your saddle is just right.

[@janbonne]

For those who are worried about his ankles and toe angle being a critical indicator of fit, it isn't. See below vid link: It's variable for everyone (clips, flats, pedal position to shoe and individual habits), ZG's position is fine for him cuz he says it is and I don't see any indication of shifting too much in his seat. It's VARIABLE for everyone. If your hips/thigh are moving/shifting and if that affects your saddle comfort when you are pedaling. Here's a good video that shows that some ppl can have toe down at bottom stroke and it depends and is variable to different ppls kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4OsiWiHbNKDpas

[@janbonne]

Another factor with if your saddle fits well depends on the type of bike/cycling... I wouldn't have the same foot position for mountain biking and that affects my saddle height... depending if I'm riding uphill or downhill... But as for ZG's main points he mainly has everything on point here and visually (since this is KZbin a visual media) maybe he could adress the hows/whys for his specific pedal position needs...

[@nwimpney]

Yeah, that's right, though for a lot of beginners, the toe-down is not because they're comfortable with it, but because they can't properly reach the pedals. In this case, the toe is fine if he naturally rides that way, but his saddle is still quite high regardless. Your legs really shouldn't be straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke, they should be slightly bent.

[@drrrw]

Hey Zack, I just finished my chest area operation and is wondering how to get back into cycling, my therapist says that I can’t cycle after 6 months to a year. With the topic of bike fitting, how can I cycle while not affecting my area of operation? My bike is a classic suntour converted to single speed and with a slammed stem. And do you have some pre cycling routine aka warm ups before cycling?.

[@Garacha222]

Zach, you got powerful legs! funny how routine exercise continues, then after a while, it becomes noticed how strong you look. Then after looking in a mirror, it occurs that those noticing your strength are correct!

[@Bi6M4C]

what I learned with adjusting your bike to your height.. go to a professional and get yourself meassured and let them fit ur bike to ur meassurements

[@cheekyjay2463]

I run a tiktok based around bike , the name is l7specs , I just did a bike check , send in your bikes if u want to be in my next vid

[@smallerfreeze]

Keep everything level, slam your stem and level the bars, level the saddle, and slam your rear tire to the rear... end of story no exceptions

[@nwimpney]

lol. And just deal with the 14" seat to bar drop, because that's "pro"

[@smallerfreeze]

@RollinRat slam EVERYTHING

[@roguecode2354]

Just get a granny seat Zach

[@joachimmacdonald2702]

Christ you talk about topics you really only have surface knowledge on with a kinda absurd level of certainty. You're not a bikefitter, and honestly a lot of what you're saying here is highly questionable. Raising your saddle until you're practically unable to pedal and then backing up a tiny bit for mAxImUm eFfIcIeNcY? Nah. Your saddle is too high.

[@timdodd3897]

Under the nose of that Brooks clone there's a screw. Just saying.

[@Jacobhance]

brooks swift

[@jackhammer40k_]

This is awful advice

[@smallerfreeze]

Tip toes touch the ground, you are telling people to have their saddle too high

[@nwimpney]

Depends, on the frame (BB height), Crank length, and rider leg length. What matters is leg position when riding the bike, not standing with it. I agree that his advice would probably lead a lot of beginners to set their saddles too high for them, but any setup shouldn't be based on standing with the bike.

[@MTNorville]

Adjust your seat; save your taint.

[@marcelocmt423]

Man, you're going to destroy your knee's tendon and ligaments. Seriously, do a proper bike fit.

[@nwimpney]

It's true that most cycling noobs do set their pedals way too low (flat footing both sides while on the saddle), but you've gone in the other direction. Your "Too low" is almost right.. Could maybe be a touch higher, but it's close. Your "Just right" is probably too high for you, and would definitely be way too high for anyone who doesn't pedal with their toes down. You shouldn't be able to lock your knee except maybe at the bottom of the pedal stroke if you drop your heels a lot. As far as feet touching the ground goes, that varies a lot between bikes and riders. Long legged riders are more likely to be able to touch the ground, because the bottom bracket height tends to be similar on different sized bikes. Seat tube angle has an effect too. A slacker seat tube angle will have a lower saddle with the legs in the correct position. As far as comments about foot angle go, there is no right or wrong there. Pedal however is comfortable for you, some people are quite flat, some pedal toe down, but regardless, you want to adjust so your knees are still a little bit bent at full extension with your feet in their normal position, pedalling with your natural pedal stroke.

[@nwimpney]

​@BeboSaab Whatever works for you is fine, but it's probably higher than I would suggest to a beginner, especially on fixed gear, where over-straightening your leg can apply a ton of force to your knees (which would normally be somewhat limited by muscle strength)

[@nyrol]

thank you for these advices