Is Your Saddle too Far Back or Forward? (Saddle setback explained)

[@saskhiker3935]

I have watched many bike fit videos, but this guy explains things so well and helps me really understand my body in relation to my bike.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@Hermod_Hermit]

The more bike fitting videos I watch, the more I appreciate that I've always bought bikes that are just a tad too large. I have bought most of them by going on "recommendations" by the manufacturers. My personal problem is that I got long legs, thus a relatively short upper body, so reach is constantly an issue. I am down to 60mm stem on my road bike, and now it works fine but if I had a chance I'd rather like to downsize a fram size and get a slightly longer stem.

[@tataitibia]

For those with knee injuries: try to put the saddle a litte to back, do it in minimal milimeters for once, this helps me so much that i dont now how to explaine, in two weeks my knees feels much better, no pain.

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍

[@syrus3k]

Yep back and or up is often the cure for that.. saddle too low left me with a bad knee for months once

[@sirubenpo]

Sir, you are my Virtual Coach your Knowledge helping me to win some of my races

[@BulletproofCycling]

Awesome Ruben 👍👍

[@vernonlacey4217]

top coach - very informative, funny, and ironic where needed

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@abfutrell]

In the last week I moved my saddle another 5mm forward (was already +5mm), so I'm now 1 cm forward from neutral and I raised my saddle 5 mm to compensate. This was the result of a mountain ride last week. I noticed my tendency was to sit on the nose of the saddle to maintain cadence and to get over the top of the pedal stroke. There were 3 separate climbs that averaged 9% for 2 miles each. ~7,000 feet of climbing. So far my power seems higher and I'm setting PRs on segments with hundreds of efforts without working any harder.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Sounds great 👍

[@christopherwelch5568]

numb hands and scrunched up neck... yep that describes it. I need to micro-adjust my seat. I'm on a straight handlebar commuter bike, not a fancy racing bike but it is uncomfortable and I thought I needed different handlebars. Thanks for the clear explanation.

[@jerryavalos9610]

I've come across two schools of thought on saddle fore and aft. First school believes that the saddle is adjusted to get the knees over the pedal spindle. If you want to adjust reach, you shorten or lengthen the stem. Second school believes that the saddle is adjusted so you are balanced on the bicycle meaning if you can take off your hands off the handlebars and not fall forward, then you are perfectly balanced on the bicycle. Reach is again based on shortening or lengthening the stem.

[@BulletproofCycling]

I am defo not a fitter that sets up using knee over pedal spindle 👍👍👍

[@HellAnimo]

@@BulletproofCycling Can you elaborate why? The angle of your knee compared to he pedals seems importand to me.

[@fr3heart]

For me ​@@HellAnimo it's because you pedal in a circle, and so that angle just moves around the pedal stroke as you change the fire/aft measurement.

[@markhill9275]

General rule, Road bike, 1 to 1.5 inch behind centre of crank, Track .5 behind centre of crank. Having said this it is a very subjective thing, Le Cannibale after his back injury would stop during a race to adjust his seat height, as his back felt.

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍👍👍

[@nicke6394]

I’m trying to set up my Wattbike. Your advice is amazing 🙌

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks 🙏

[@VishnuRajendranAmboo]

Thanks.. a very good info It's a bit of trail and error when you don't have someone to help you to ensure your settings..

[@BulletproofCycling]

Just keep spinning 👍

[@jameslopez958]

Much appropriate the straight forward information Brother 😎. Peace ✌️ and Love 💕 from Tucson Arizona Desert 🏜️.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you James ❤️👍

[@russwatkins8895]

Thanks for the advise.....I look forward o making these adjustments

[@subtropicalken1362]

Just happened on your channel and very much enjoy the content and have subscribe. Question: I’m not getting the 120 measurement. From where is that measured and is it mm or percent? The measurements are no problem I can do that all day. Thanks! Never mind. I saw your other “live” recorded video from a year ago that explained it.

[@eikkapelimarkka9877]

This guy is great. Thank you for the videos.

[@jonfairway8235]

wow glad i found your channel , best on youtube by far !! thank you ..

[@monkmchorning]

My formula for setback for years has been balance. With my preferred back angle and my hands on the hoods, I want my center of gravity roughly over the balls of my feet when I'm applying power. Too far back and I lose power and the front of the bike doesn't stay planted. Forward is definitely more powerful, but too far forward feels like doing push-ups. My idea is to maintain the back angle with core muscles and just a light touch on the handlebar. Perched on my saddle, I really feel like I'm sitting on a bar stool reaching for a beer. Do you have any thoughts on this?

[@BulletproofCycling]

You have the right concept Eric. Just far enough forward with good saddle height to exert the power from quads and glutes etc. sounds like you have good stability through cleat position. Keep doing the strength work on your triceps and back muscles and you’ll have no probs with bars 👍👍👍👍

[@guspecunia5887]

My new TCR ( boxing day ) has a D shaped or propriety seat post, the set back is minimal compared to some bikes I’ve purchased… I’ve always swapped the OEM post for a zero setback…. so as I’ve had to do the majority ( about 1400mi ) of my riding this year indoors I think I’m ready to start diving into the set up since I think I’ve settled into the bike by now… This video was GREAT! I’ll be applying the lesson see where I am….BTW joining your Patreon page as I’m really impressed by your advice and knowledge coach!! Cheers from Richmond Va.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks Gus ❤️👍

[@sherab2078]

I belong to this (relatively) few individuals of rather low height (162 cm). And this is causing me a lot of trouble with buying and setting up the bikes. Low budget don't help either, really. I have now the Kross Esker 2.0 with Microshift groupset (2023 model). And this is a nice bike for its price. But I bought the lowest possible frame size, and on the one hand, I can't set (with the original parts) the saddle back enough to not slide forward when getting my hands off the bars, and at the same time, I need to be reaching out forward to the hoods. Oh... and I had to cut the saddle tube to set the right height for me. Oh... why does the cycling industry hate low-height people so much?

[@rochester212]

Your problem is low IQ, not low height. Traditionally most professional cyclists were short people, most vintage frames come in sizes smaller than 54 cm. In the last 30 years the industry has adopted the compact geometry frame and today we also have women's frames, designed for people with short hands. What I noticed is that most bikes come with long handlebars and stems, which force you to stretch in order to reach the levers, the solution is to replace the stem and the handlebar if need with short versions, that are easier to reach. The saddle position is a question of trial and error.

[@bec5594]

Thank your luck stars you're not as short as me - 147cm! It's an absolute nightmare finding a frame to fit and swapping bits out to make it work for me....I feel your pain!

[@heksogen4788]

@@bec5594 You need 26 inch wheel junior/teenager bikes, there's no way around it.

[@HenriksenDolf]

I am so thankful that I‘ve found your channel. Do have tipps for flatbars too?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you. Need to add flat bars to next live video chat 👍👍👍

[@Hambonebodi]

Thank you coach , you have helped me out a lot already.

[@BulletproofCycling]

My pleasure

[@davidparker8475]

Thanks Scott for the great content!

[@alextorresphoto]

Scott great explanation and perspective.

[@BulletproofCycling]

🙏 thanks Alejandro

[@dougk7965]

This has been the best explanation. Thank you

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@BenjaminWasHere]

I've watched several of Your videos now re seat position. The one variable that I don't see you've talked about yet is critical: Seat Height. You speak about moving forward 5mm, means you should move seat up 3-5mm...but...up from what starting point? Up from what height? Or, down from what height? You give great detail and explanation of Forward, Back,...what is the base height before you raise up 3mm? Does that make sense? If I move forward 5mm, and should compensate seat height by raising it 3-5mm - what if seat height was already at the max height? Maybe there's something I missed? I hope You understand my confusion? Thanks!

[@BulletproofCycling]

Hi - I have covered seat height in quite a few videos. I am not very good with KZbin tech at present but will create easier to follow playlists and revisit seat height. Thanks 🙏

[@leed5768]

Great video - thanks for sharing - I’m definitely going to experiment!

[@ReneeBasurto]

You have taught me so much. Thank you so much!

[@nicholasfitzgerald1999]

Hey Coach, thanks for the great videos. Rapid question: What is the ideal set back number after doing the subtraction? Cheers

[@BulletproofCycling]

Depends on lots of metrics but I find a lot of road bikes at or around 100-150mm

[@Jazz-uu3dk]

Been playing with position for weeks now, still not comfy 100%. At first I felt like I really have to reach too far so changed the stem from 120mm to 100, still grabbing the handlebar away from the brakes so moved saddle forward more. Get numb hands almost instantly with discomfort in my thumb muscles. Dont think going with shorter stem will change it for the better so will have to try the mummy thing and see what might be the culprit. Keep up the good work.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Hope you get things sorted

[@LEARNHOMEOPATHY]

I'm 69yrs old and getting back into cycling and watching lots of your videos. Very helpful indeed thanks! .I'm struggling to understand why I feel the need to have my saddle even further back. I'm currently riding a Specialized hybrid bike with straight handlebars and a Brooks Flyer saddle (on tarmac'ed but very rough roads). Getting a normal road bike next year. My inside leg (sitting on a book spine against the wall) is 89.5cm.. From what you suggest I should be at a saddle height of 10 cm less (79.5) but as I cycle I find I keep needing to raise it until it is comfortable at 82cm. I was getting some inside knee pain yesterday when it was lower after a couple of hours but that improved after I moved the saddle up to where it is now, at 82cm (7.5 short of inside leg). This sounds too high from your description but it' seems to be where Im comfortable, more or less. The 'less' part is that I feel I want my saddle further back still . I find I want to sit right at the back of it. It is currently set to about 3/4 of the way back form where's possible but I'm worried about putting too much strain on the rails.

[@BulletproofCycling]

This method is pretty crude as it sounds like you could have longer femurs. I would suggest getting comfy is more important for you. Try using just the foot on saddle method for both sides and see what the difference is with Lemond formulae 👍👍👍

[@krisztianbuglavecz3121]

this my very first comment on YT. I like your style, and explanations to make people understand bike settings what sometimes seems otherwise rocketscience to begginers like me. I needed to sharpen my ears as English is not my mother tongue :-) t bijk=bike but a big thumb up! (anyway I am 178cm, how long of my crank should be? thx)

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you. 🙏 I would suggest 170mm is the longest you would need 👍👍👍

[@dinodaniel2237]

Love your videos! Always look forward to see them Great way of explaining technique. All the best Coach!

[@BulletproofCycling]

That is very kind of you Dino 👍

[@jameslopez958]

Coach Good Information! Peace ✌️ and Love 💕 from Tucson Arizona Desert 🏜️

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks James

[@Chrisb286]

Top work Coach, thank you for another clear video 👏👍🚴‍♂️

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you

[@thepatternforms859]

For iron man triathlon we run out saddles slammed all the way up forward as it will go. At least even with the bottom bracket and maybe even in front of it

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍👍

[@zardozica]

I find myself riding more on the front of my saddle and scooting back. This tells me that I need to move the saddle forward? Also, my neck hurts on long rides.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Check the tilt of your saddle - it may be angled down too much and you are sliding forward. I am going to share some videos about exercises to help with posture and neck pain

[@raviarora131]

Plz share the same with me also. I m feeling pain in shoulders during long rides

[@82HEADCASE]

Excellent video. I recently just bought myself a used cannondale optimo caad4 road bike and iv being play with the set up since i bought it. I take it out for an hours ride then come home and make adjustments based on how it feels ... Now thanks to this video im sure the bike is to long for me! Like the coach im 5'10'" Lean build and fairly flexable .... if a 54 cm bike is to long for coach then the 56 i bought most definitely is😂. Id appreciate a reccomended stem length just to confirm my taughts on an 80mm???? Current stem is 100mm i believe so im hoping a 80mm will give me that 54cm bike fit i need i think 🤔. Any way loved the video and will be trying out the mummy position tomorrow. Thanks agen 👍

[@BulletproofCycling]

Awesome - thanks for sharing

[@alexBoblee]

Hello coach.Thanks for the videos help a lot. I wanted to ask if what you mention in the video can be applied to mountain biking.thank you very much for the help

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yes you can! It can be slightly different but not that much

[@melindadawngarren5137]

Thank you for the informative video, and the chuckle, no kitchen crashes here. Is saddle and handle bar positioning and setback/forward roughly the same for those of us who prefer upright cycling?

[@bob-pq6kd]

I like you're explanation.. and love you're videos.... I have a question, Should the seat be level or parallel to the floor?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Each person will have different approach depending on their riding (races, endurance, leisure, age, weight etc) The rails on various saddles will dictate how the saddle sits eg. ISM saddle will tilt forward with parallel rails. So I always suggest that you make sure you have your rails parallel (safety). With a saddle a few degrees tilted down you have the opportunity to roll pelvis forward easily but can overload the front end more! Personally I prefer getting people into a better saddle height and foe/aft position and then deciding if a short nose saddle is better. Hope this helps. I should prob do a video on it 👍

[@GrantSpoon]

Hey coach. I used to race many years ago and used 170mm cranks. I'm 5'11" and these days bikes come with 175mm which feels very cumbersome to me. I've experimented with 165mm and really enjoyed it. What do you think? Great video and good ideas.

[@mochno1]

this is the new topic of the cyclist :-)

[@Anon.User.602]

Great video and amazing accent!

[@BulletproofCycling]

😂😂👍

[@randolphowen4587]

Just a great video. Well done

[@BulletproofCycling]

Many thanks!

[@pasav8314]

Coach, could you please give me the enlightment on "120 points" reference? Love your videos!! Regards from Indonesia

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you It’s just a reference point used for measurements - it helps keep measurements consistent when doing body limb measurements onto the bike 👍👍

[@alanhickerson2345]

Which one of your videos explains the 120 position? Thanks!

[@pindeed]

Yep, I couldn't find what the 1-20 position is :(

[@GordenFreeman619]

Hi Mr. Maclean, i heard from my dad about youre awesome Channel He always tells me the news about you in a very fascinating way 😊 his Name is Uwe and a Greeting from you , .. and if it only exists in the comments would mean a lot to Himmel ❤

[@MrSteamDragon]

So are you suggesting to put the 120mm point in line with the seat post to start off with, then use trial and error to make fine adjustments? Thanks.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yes, it’s where your sit bones will rear in neutral position 👍

[@adammillsindustries.]

I’ve always set far forward. It seems more aggressive and feels like I can get more power through the cranks. It might not be perfect for a bike fit though. My old bike fitter put me on a 170mm cranks but I’m going to ignore that and try 165mm. 5 foot 7 longer torso and arms shorter legs.

[@BulletproofCycling]

I hope you get joy from the 165's - I am pretty sure you will

[@petersteadman841]

✌️ Thank you for making your videos.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you Peter

[@Knud451]

Thanks! What you mention around 7:15 about the glutes being deactivated because the reach is too long, would simply indicate that you need to move the saddle forward (all other things equal)?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Ideally yeh. Having the saddle forward helps with glute engagement. I see lots of riders not using their glutes

[@DAVD305]

The Mummy Test saved me TY, I’m dialed in now

[@BulletproofCycling]

Brilliant 👍

[@THIS---GUY]

Thanks for the video coach. do you have a video or any comments toward what type of length adjustment to make to the stem if you need it to be shorter?

[@Jayjay-gd2gc]

Hello coach great video! What normally size of crankset, handlebar and stem would you recommend to a person with a height of 5’4? Base on your experience in bike fitting

[@BulletproofCycling]

Obviously everyone is different but I would suggest something around 165 crankset and 380-400mm bars. Stem on any well sized bike should be around 90-100mm Obviously this is a rough estimate

[@irondistance4313]

Great video when you refer to the 120 position are you talking about 120 mm from the rear of the saddle? Thanks for your response

[@manongpo]

As always great content! Question Coach Scott, im 5'10 885 inseam what length of crank should i be in? Thank u Coach!

[@BulletproofCycling]

We are similar so 170mm would be ideal 👍

[@glennoc8585]

As someone that has a long tibia to femur ratio I have my saddle forward and my saddle up 7 mm more than the calculated height. I also have standard arm length not ape like so i don't like a set back saddle

[@BulletproofCycling]

Perfect - well done. I am going to share some videos on knee angles etc but in a simple way. You are good example of someone aware of limb lengths and positively working with them 👍👍👍

[@smoke20660]

New to road bikes, and I’m sure I’ve made the mistake of buying a bike that’s a touch to big. My reach seems to be the issue and I’ve not seen to many videos talking about turning the offset seat post around to decrease reach. Is this something I can do to reduce reach or would changing the seat post to a straight style be a better option. Great videos. TIA

[@ericpeysar2593]

If you flip a setback post it will bring your seat way to far forward. A change if a few mm makes a big difference. Flipping a 25 mm seat post moves you 50 mm forward. Thats at least two frame sizes.

[@margaretrichardson3212]

Thanks for the tips in this video. I have just completed the Yorkshire Classic middle distance, and got very sore hamstrings near the glutes and also sore hands. I was planning on putting the saddle back, but having watched the video, I think I will be moving it forward. Hopefully that will take the strain off my hands, and ease the hamstrings at the same time. When I get back from Holland in a few weeks, I intend to get a proper bike fit.

[@BulletproofCycling]

I hope your bike fit helps. Feel free to keep me posted

[@_RandomPea]

Hey, great instructions, I've followed it today to reset my position. Question, on the saddle I have from my triban it has 0,1,2,3 labeled on the rail... You say to go in the middle right? I just wondered why '0' wouldn't be the center... Seems a bit daft.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Cycling is full of strange and quirky things but I guess that’s why we love it

[@_RandomPea]

@@BulletproofCycling I went for the middle in the end as seemed sensible. I did find a position that caused no back pain but it was ridiculously low and I had no power... So I've since gone back up. My bike fit last year replaced my stem from 110 to a 70 but it's made no difference, stupidly I let him keep the 110. Do you have a vid on measuring reach and drop? I think saddle is now in the right place following your vids but how do i know if the drop is too great?

[@thereopellesjohncynthia5675]

I’m buying a new bike this week and I want to be able to take about proper fit with the shop. I have a 32” inseam and was wondering what size crank I would need. The bike comes with a 172.5 but they allow you to select other sizes. Any help would be appreciated. I’m glad I came across your channel and am a new subscriber.

[@frogspotter7445]

My new bike a few months ago came with 172.5 cranks and I recently changed to 170 cranks (33” inseam, 5’10). Each person’s anatomy is of course different, but 170 was recommended for me following a bike fit with a well known bike fitter a few years ago.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Good luck! I have similar inside seem and never go above 170 crank

[@GingerPhotographer]

Great video - Do you have any advice for someone suffering from lower back issues "right side above hip" especially when riding uphill or pushing watts.. Thank you.

[@cikiloppo]

It sounds like hip flexor issue. If i were you, i would definitely hit a sports physio and ask for it. U may need some professional help

[@hzunasdfgbciw]

Well explained, got it: Maybe it's this or that. Or the stem.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@rickster6.0]

Thanks for the video Coach! Since the geometry is different do the same principles apply to MTB setups? I’m riding my MTB exclusively on the road and rail trails not on anything technical.

[@BulletproofCycling]

If you are on the road then pretty much the same 👍

[@syaifulakhwanbrosingabina2360]

Great video coach

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you Mohd

[@sleephealing4009]

Very informative coach. I love your mummy position measurement. I am planning to build another roadie, and also planning to try shorter crank arm length. My height is 162cm and my inseam is 76.5cm, so what could my crank arm length? 🙂

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏 There is no key rule to observe with crank arm - pros at your height. Roglic similar but maybe wee bit taller is 170 (whole team are 170 actually and some guys are very tall) If you prefer low cadence bigger gear then you will suit the 170. If you prefer softer gears and higher cadence then look at 168 or even 165. If you have chance to demo then great but certainly I wouldn’t recommend going over 170!

[@sleephealing4009]

@@BulletproofCycling Noted! Thank you

[@MattKremer]

I will have to try that mummy approach. Noticing some butt soreness this spring and it seems like it's in tissue in front of my sit bones. My setup has been kind of set it and forgot it. So, something maybe could do with a little adjusting. Would not have guessed you are in your fifties. I guess cycling is good for you! 👍

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks for comment Matt - keep me posted 👍

[@SedatedPigeon]

A lot of smaller frame have steep seat tube angle, 73.5° in my case and i find moving from zero setback to 20mm setback seatpost helps.

[@heksogen4788]

73.5 is hardly a steep tube, lots of small bikes have even 75 degrees!

[@SedatedPigeon]

​@@heksogen4788it's usually to keep the wheelbase short for race geometry.

[@gmivisualsjason3729]

Excellent information

[@BulletproofCycling]

Glad it was helpful!

[@danielnascimento9837]

Great stuff.. very thoughtful.. Quick question for you.. perhaps geeking out a bit.. if I/someone has 3 bikes (not saying I do), but.. if each bike has a different seat tube angle.. 71.2 slack, 72.5 sort of regular, 74 normal/aggressive.. assuming all bikes have same head tube angle.. would you standardize the saddle setback on all bikes (like at say 7cm)? and if so, would you expect that the slacker the seat tube the further backward the clamp would have to be on the saddle rail (saddle more foreward).. Or would you expect that in order to keep all seat post clamps in the middle of its rail, you would have to use different seatpost set back.. 0 mm, 17.5mm, 25mm. in order to achieve relative pedaling mechanics..

[@BulletproofCycling]

Great question. I would start with the inside seam and use the same distance to measure from BB to 120mm point on saddle. I would measure the rider at each position under the same power and feedback the differences. I have the capabilities to do this so can experiment on myself. May do this for a deeper dive video. May link in with crank arm length as well 👍👍👍

[@hedgefundsearch]

@@BulletproofCycling great point. On the 120mm point. I have noticed that if i set my sitting position on say a power saddle, which is 24cm long, and use another saddle say sqllab 612 saddle, which is 26.2cm long, you would think that once the “right” position is set on the power saddle, all that needs to be adjusted is the “length” difference right? But i have noticed that if i sit on power saddle because of is “curvature” at say 100mm from the front (I specially use a front measurement for the contact point being closer to front than other saddles) and i sit on the sqlab saddle 160mm from the front, because the curvature from front is less agressive, then JUST the length difference of the saddle would not be enough right.. so how would you find the “sit” point. The 120mm does tend to put the seatpost clamp in the middle of the rail, but does it work for different curvature ramp up?

[@BulletproofCycling]

@@hedgefundsearch that’s a good point - obviously I am being general and can’t take in all pelvic supports on each saddle. Both saddles are offering a different type of ride experience. Hope that makes sense. Ps Always check the stack height of each saddle and make sure they are similar as rails can be different and thus make saddle height different 👍

[@fethimouhoub4163]

hello coach thank you very much for answering my question on the dysfunction at the hip level can we solve this problem by playing on the adjustment of the wedges I wish you a good day

[@BulletproofCycling]

My pleasure 👍

[@drewbyscoobywho]

Hi Scott, just found your channel and am loving going through the back catalogue. So much great information. I have a question if you don’t mind ? I’ve recently started to feel my VMO area doing a lot of the work whilst riding, even during short 30 to 45 minute easy rides. I’m also getting cramping in my adductors near that area several hours after riding. Any ideas what could be causing this? FYI, I had a bike fit last September with a reputable fitter and had new lake shoes with custom insoles and my position slightly changed, saddle height increase and stem length increase. I had no issues whilst riding following the fit last year and it’s only since getting back on the bike in the last couple of months that this issue has happened. Thanks Drew.

[@BulletproofCycling]

for the nice comment, hopefully you can video production move from crap to average hahaha. It obvioulsy could be a number of things but are you stretching out quads after rides and working on hip mobility as well as hip flexor work. Sometimes I see riders get very dominant on their preferred side and this causes the issue. It doesn't sound like crank arm issue if you had no trouble before. You may just have caused a slight imbalance buddy. Try and do a loop several times BUT all at very different intensities and see how you feel.

[@ShadowzKiller]

Go wider with your q factor.

[@paulinebeni4627]

Thankyou for this info

[@dubidoo8606]

Hi Coach, what should be the correct crank arm length for 5'3 1/2 height like me? thank you for creating these great videos

[@Morten_B]

Nice video, thanks :) One comment: Front of saddle for reference is no good with all these short nose saddles . But even the "120 point" referenced from the rear will be dependent on seat design. I think measuring the point where the seat is about the width of your pelvis bones are the most "universal" across saddle designs? At least that's what I've been doing recently.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks - if it works for you then keep going. We use the 120 mark as it helps create a start point and is generally close enough to where folks rest on the saddle in fairly neutral position. Using the nose of the saddle just gives you a reference point if you have no other measurements. Always about having a starting point and then tweaking with small movements 👍👍👍

[@Morten_B]

I noticed this especially with the Prologo Dimension saddle, that has a quite long wide area, that when comparing with a Prologo Scratch (or more normal road saddles) nose or rear reference is way off.

[@BulletproofCycling]

@@Morten_B yes the dimension is not one of my favourites. When compared with the Selle Boost it’s night and day 👍

[@TheMoodyedge]

Very interesting you mention you ride a 52 but "SHOULD" ride a 54 based on the "GUIDE". I'm having a really hard time trying to identify what sized bike to get and you are only the second person I have seen, who has commented on the fact most people have bikes that are simply too big for them. I rode 3 hours yesterday on a 58 / Large and my neck was absolute agony. My crazy Idea is to do the Whitton next year having just started road riding. There is no way I'd survive the Fred Whitton with that level of discomfort. I am 6"3 so some shops would likely put me on a 60cm+ which is madness. The 58cm I ride now feels like I am streched way too far out and I have way more than 15% load on my hands/arms. That is with a 110mm stem, a circa 90 reach bar, 393 frame reach, 580mm top tube. The 58cm frames I'm looking at have wheelbases around 1000-1010mm. The next size down the wheelbase drops below that....eg 991mm. Is this too short for a rider of my height or are other dimensions more important? I've emailed you about bike fitting etc.

[@BulletproofCycling]

I’ll pick up email and reply 👍👍👍

[@TheMoodyedge]

@@BulletproofCycling Nice one. Cheers

[@michaelsingh843]

Hi Coach! I enjoy these bike setup videos. Gives me an idea of what to feel as a social/club rider! I want to play around with my stem lenght to give me more control at high speed downhills, what lenght would you start with? Or not go lower than?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Easy for me to say that 100mm but I know this is not always possible. I have moved folks to 80mm that they have been fine but some tell me they can hold 40mph downhill ok on a 60mm

[@michaelsingh843]

@@BulletproofCycling Thank coach! Was also leaning toward 100mm, I have 80mm on the bike and speeds above 40mph gets scary! My handlebar is a size to small 43cm shoulders also! Heading off to the bike shop in a few days, re look at the seat placement and take from there... 120mm from the back!👍

[@ercegmarko]

I'm not sure if you accidentally made a mistake, but a seat placed more back engages more glute muscles, and on the opossite side (saddle more forward) engages more quadriceps

[@BulletproofCycling]

Saddle too far back will generally push the foot through the top of the stroke. You will always engage glutes and quads at various levels. But when the saddle sets the pelvis too far back it usually has a collapse so I often see the rider having to stretch posterior chain. It also means the glute can often just be weaker so the lumbar is working harder to stabilise the pelvis (which it’s generally too weak to do). Quads will burn more if saddle too far forward and at the wrong height. Obviously there are pinch points for all. Eg we want TT riders further forward but there are lots of issues why we do that. I will dive deeper into muscle action in another video. Sometimes these videos are quick but I really appreciate you engaging in the content. Thank you

[@tinycat555]

Hey @@BulletproofCycling, interesting... I'm a bit confused when you say that quads burn more if saddle more forward, ONLY if seat is at the wrong height! Can you elaborate on this please? Thanks

[@BulletproofCycling]

@@tinycat555 if the quad can’t elongate to full potential. Based around your femur length and flexibility etc and can be based around your fibre type etc. however, just think of the knee angle. If it is too low and forward some riders don’t get full use of the quad muscle. It basically doesn’t carry out its full range of potential movement. There are lots of other factors of course. But I could use examples of one international team who set their riders at a particular knee angle (all the same) the sprinters were in agony as hamstrings were under too much stress and some of endurance riders were being restricted. So as you move forward to get power then just be aware you change knee angle and thus can shorten quad. There is also an issue with the contraction interaction of muscle fibres but I better stop haha sorry. Hope I explained the initial point 👍

[@tinycat555]

@@BulletproofCycling thanks! Ok, so basically, a more forward position (and I'm not talking in too far forward) requires a bit more open knee angle, achieved by a bit more saddle height, than in a more back position?

[@BulletproofCycling]

@@tinycat555 perfect 👍

[@Jari1973]

Thank you for the video! Good channel! Isn’t it always worthwhile to be in the saddle as front and high as your own physics allow? Isn't it forbidden in the competition rules to keep the saddle too far?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yes 👍 always better to be forward than back 👍 rules in pro racing is more about TT positioning of saddle in relation to cockpit. 👍👍

[@polinae11202010]

hi coach thank you so much for this share.. the mummie position basically changed the way i ride my bike.. i never thought it is this easy and now i enjoy more my cycling.. i can do 200km without any discomfort now cause i am reaching my bars that way it should be.. i just noticed that when i put power on the drops say above my FTP, i can feel a very little numbness on my hands.. is this because i am gripping my bars too much or something that i need to change like (adding 5mm spacer on the stem)?.. when im pedaling below or on my FTP i dont feel any discomfort.. thanks again ciaoooo

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks for sharing

[@polinae11202010]

@@BulletproofCycling hi coach ciao.. i think my saddle is MM too far forward, making all the weight in front.. i adjust my saddle 3mm backwards and dropped my saddle height 2mm and see how it goes😊😊😊

[@fernandosanchez6953]

Good morning Coach, Newbie here in your channel, great content 👌. Quick question, does this also applies to tri bikes? I'm doing half distance (70.3), still trying to find the best saddle fit adjustment so the ride is comfy and the run is 🚀. Thank you!

[@BulletproofCycling]

You will be a lot more forward in terms of loading on the front end due to your arm rests. Your hip can be forward anywhere from 20-100mm depending on bike or position. However you want position that tries to gain aero position with high hands - this won’t necessarily compromise aero position as it’s about hands and head being close but this helps open the hip flexor so you move into run (with maybe less discomfort !?) I would guess you are practicing a lot on your bike to run transition so try and get sone images from the side as you ride your triathlon bike and relate the position to the feel! Hope this helps

[@robsampson4971]

Thanks for the vid new subscriber here out started watching your back catalogue of vids. I have had a bike fit about a year ago and have gone back multiple times because of saddle sores etc.i have also tried lots of saddles.I have tried lowering it 5mm and adjusting the fore aft,but as I ride longer especially on the trainer.I always want to sit as far back on the saddle even though it's not the right spot,any suggestion would be appreciated,thanks for your time

[@BulletproofCycling]

Happy for you to send me an email and I could give you some suggestions 👍

[@SteveLi123]

Hi Coach, is it normal to have knees behind spindles? Both of my bikes are in size 53 and I'm having a hard time to get the saddle forward enough to reach KOPS, so I followed your method and I find my knees are very behind pedals, however it definitely feels better in terms of balance and handling. Thanks.

[@BulletproofCycling]

KOPS is quite dated but is good starting point and it sounds like you have got yourself in a good position 👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@andrewa4408]

Can you please confirm, is the 120mm measuring point on the saddle for setback taken from the tip or rear of the saddle? It appears to be the rear in the video, but just checking

[@BulletproofCycling]

The 120mm is your reference point for starting your measurements. Take from the back 👍

[@vaporta]

Pardon me My English isn’t too good so I little miss on this 120mm measuring point, need little enlightments here. Did you get this number from measuring the lenght from BB to the wall and take with the lenght from the back of saddle?

[@waynesmith4589]

Great 👍 , thank you Scott

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks Wayne

[@petersteadman841]

Hi coach, thank you for your excellent content. Its helpful and educational. Was wondering if you could please help? When I'm cycling I feel mainly quads working (burn). I don't feel anything in my calfs and only occasionally on the side and back of upper legs. Is this normal? I'm riding flat pedals (mtb), normally at lower rpm pushing hard. Kind regards 👍

[@BulletproofCycling]

Usually means your saddle could benefit from going up a little

[@petersteadman841]

Thank you coach! It worked 😎. I'm putting more power down and smashing my strava personal segment record's. I reckon I can go up a bit further before my hips waggle in the saggle. It's amazing what positive difference a extra inch has made. Gig gigitty 🤣. Thanks again coach👍

[@krymic1991]

In that case, if I made these measurements, how far can I move the saddle forward relative to the support, the nose of the saddle must not exceed the line of the axis of the support?

[@jenc7383]

Very helpful and informative video, thanks Coach! 😉 I happened across this video as I am a beginner who just purchased a gravel bike. I am struggling to decide between two sizes. Smaller size felt like my hands landed perfectly on the hoods and felt good. However it felt like the seat needed to be positioned further back, though it was as far back as it could go. With the larger size, I could certainly feel that I was reaching out further, but not too dramatically, as I still have a slight bend in the elbow. Just doesn't fit as natural as the smaller bike. However, the seat position feels better. And is almost all the way forward. Which is the easier to correct? And therefore which size do I rather go for? The smaller or the larger? Thoughts? Would I be correct in assuming that if I were to get a new bike stem for the smaller bike that allows me to sit further back, that would further my reach and my hands probably won't land on the hoods as naturally anyway? In terms of geometry between the 2 sizes, I am told that the reach is the same, but there is a 19mm difference in stack. And 30mm difference in seat tube. It's astounding how mms and cms can make such a difference in feel! Would appreciate your opinion.

[@qiancarlmabulay3195]

go for smaller size so that you have plenty of option to adjust like on cockpits, unlike if you have large size like long TT length it will become limited to adjust cockpit if you have reach issue

[@LouLarson]

Hi, Thanks for the great videos. I’m 56 and started racing in the 80’s. I don’t currently do any racing because of time constraints, but I still enjoy riding fast. I always had a very far set-back saddle, but with my newer bike the guys at the shop encouraged me to switch to straight seat post with less set-back and higher saddle. Do you have any suggestions to calculate the fit from older Lemond type position, to more modern low bars (large drop) position. It seems modern school of thought is more forward saddle to allow lower handlebars for better aerodynamics. Thanks in advance.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yep more aggressive in saddle can help. Short nosed saddles help. Be careful though of increasing saddle too much. I don’t prescribe to lower front end. This is usually a lot less aero for most older riders. Think of hand and head position and the surface area they create!

[@jameslopez958]

Hip Hip Hooray! I'm 56 also and Love riding fast and Far! Peace ✌️ and Love 💕 from Tucson Arizona Desert 🏜️. 114° Hot 🥵 today 🤔

[@Eschguy]

Just did a 150 mile ride over the weekend and it became obvious my bike isn't fitting properly. I'm 198cm with a 91cm inseam. Hoping a 64cm frame becomes available in my area soon.

[@hmfic802]

@kineticcyclecoaching so...as a former road racer ('80s to '00s), I always set up my fore/aft saddle location based on knee cap over the pedal axle...then there's cleat placement (which I've shifted back a touch over the years)...so, is this still a valid approach?

[@jeffreyengle2762]

Some good topic for discussion here. I have a question I just purchased a Brooks flyer saddle which is sprung in the rear. It’s my first Brooks sprung saddle and I’m curious how to properly adjust so that when the springs are compressed that the front of the saddle doesn’t come up too far?I have always had unsprung saddles but now that I am 62 and trying to get back into it again I thought it would be a good idea to have a little bit of comfort there. What is your thoughts?

[@BulletproofCycling]

It would be easier to take to your local shop and get them to set it up rather than explain here. They are great saddles 👍

[@jeffreyengle2762]

@@BulletproofCycling you don’t know the locals around here, in summary, they’re fairly worthless.

[@jeffreyengle2762]

@@BulletproofCycling FYI I did a lot of cross country touring back in the 80s and I am really familiar with the lingo and such. I used a standard B 17 for years and loved it. Once it was adjusted it was absolutely fantastic. The problem with a sprung saddle is the back of the saddle gives with the spring up and down, so how do you get an adjustment out of it? My guess is that you need to adjust the rear end of the seat, slightly higher to absorb the spring compression/ decompression? I think I’m on the right path, but it would be nice to hear from others.

[@mariojavier1623]

hey Scott. Good information. Question for you. My IT band have been tight and sore after I fitted my new bike to the same measurements as my old bike. I am also experiencing some soreness after a bike ride of 2 hour. My hamstrings are a bit sore in comparison to the rest of the muscle group. Do I have an issue with my fore/aft or just the seat height? My old bike have the same dimensions as the new bike. The only difference is that the new bike came with a 25lmm set back post and a 110mm 6 degrees stem. My old bike have 100mm 6degrees stem with 25mm set back post but the saddle cannot be moved back further as it run out of rail.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Could be your saddle is higher (longer length) from cleat to pelvis if saddle further back. The extra 10mm reach could be closing your hip angle. IT band issues usually originate from the pelvis. Try bringing saddle forward and experimenting with the position. Then try lowering the saddle 5mm and seeing how you go?

[@mariojavier1623]

@@BulletproofCycling - what do you mean 120mm where the pelvic usually sits? is that 120mm from the back of the saddle or from the nose?

[@mohamedrawshan280]

Hello, Thank you for the great content. My height is 177cm and my road bike size is M. I set my saddle all the way back to make it knee over the pedal spindle. What is your opinion in this regard? Is it okay to make my saddle all the way back or I should go with the L frame where the saddle will be in the middle?

[@DR_1_1]

Forget about the kotp just find your best position, and better the smaller frame size than the larger when between 2 sizes, so M should fit...

[@TiTagliaTV]

Thanks too much for all of these informations ❤️ I am cyclist from 2014 but i have a pain and knock sound at the Fibular Head Joint from 14 months at my right knee, can you please help me how can i fix this problem? i visited many doctors and i did many MRI but everything shows that i am fine so what may be the problem ?

[@BulletproofCycling]

I am sorry to hear this and wish I could help you. The scans show the knee static but your issues occur during motion. It may be that your knee is not tracking properly due to issue in quads or glutes - if u could see an expert PT who could look at motion of knee joint in action then this might help ??

[@TiTagliaTV]

@@BulletproofCycling Thanks for you reply!! Unfortunately i did that already but nothing changed, i tried many physical therapist but nothing changed, i stopped cycling from weeks but taking rest didn't helped me so really i don't know what is the treatment of my problem

[@willytseng8504]

great video! Hi coach, i’m currently 188cm tall and have a 89cm inseam, is a 170mm crank too short for me to go with road bike races? I wonder the power output could go up if i change it to a longer crank such as 175mm? Normally I train in all terrains

[@BulletproofCycling]

I would say no, it’s not too short. Your power is a combination of the lever length, torque (gear) and your velocity (cadence) - so it depends on lots of variables. Not to mention hip strength and femur length etc. However, I would say for racing that it could offer you more hip room to roll forward and engage glutes etc. you could be more reactive to changes in group speed. However, purely personally but I would go 170 👍

[@adriantiu]

Hey coach great video. I have a question regarding seat posts with setback vs. inline. Do you change the saddle fore-aft when switching from one to the other?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yes you will be further forward. 👍👍👍

[@frx_dasalatpagninilay]

Just a question. I have used a dfuse seatpost on my giant revolt and now switched to a zero offset. How to determine the measurements

[@paulmorrison30]

I can’t imagine anything more satisfying than getting attacked by a load of boxes 🤔

[@BulletproofCycling]

😂😂😂👍

[@lorrefrecker3375]

Just curios like to know how wide a mountain bike handlebar should be do you measure it the same way?

[@Nsbsvwhwuiwbsv]

Very informative video

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks 🙏

[@daf_jockey736]

Hi coach, just found you're videos. Suffering with numb hands and sore neck. If I am having to reach would this be more a shorter stem is needed rather than pushing the saddle about? I also find, on the trainer, that if I ride without hands I feel like I'm sliding forward, so could this also be a tilt issue. Thanks

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yep sounds like stem issue. Experiment with tilt on trainer but try first to pop up the front wheel higher!