Is Your Saddle too Far Back or Forward? (Saddle setback explained)

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[@saskhiker3935]

I have watched many bike fit videos, but this guy explains things so well and helps me really understand my body in relation to my bike.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@dinodaniel2237]

Love your videos! Always look forward to see them Great way of explaining technique. All the best Coach!

[@BulletproofCycling]

That is very kind of you Dino 👍

[@davidparker8475]

Thanks Scott for the great content!

[@ReneeBasurto]

You have taught me so much. Thank you so much!

[@Chrisb286]

Top work Coach, thank you for another clear video 👏👍🚴‍♂️

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you

[@alextorresphoto]

Scott great explanation and perspective.

[@BulletproofCycling]

🙏 thanks Alejandro

[@shmvon]

I've seen two videos and now I'm rethinking everything I thought I knew about my bike position and adjustments I had to make. At first, I figured my bike geometry was too competitive and had a top tube that forced me to stretch my reach. After long ride, I'd always have neck pain. Then I heard about the pelvis tilt and indeed, it make a big difference on the neck and reach after slightly tilting the saddle, moving it forward and higher up. I'll see if an inline saddle pen helps me further because I'm over the markers already, and then hopefully I can increase the ahead stem back to 9/10 cm instead of 6 cm and have better control in turns. I flip it up so it actually sets my handlebars higher too. Final thing I'm doubting is to keep using my 175mm cranks or go back to 172,5mm cranks. I have long arms, long legs, and a short torso, so longer cranks could allow me to have the saddle a couple of mm lower, although then I need to push with slightly more bent knees. Imagine I'll have a brand new feeling on an old bike, that would be great.

[@Re-cycles408]

Thank you coach , you have helped me out a lot already.

[@BulletproofCycling]

My pleasure

[@vernonlacey4217]

top coach - very informative, funny, and ironic where needed

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@nicke6394]

I’m trying to set up my Wattbike. Your advice is amazing 🙌

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks 🙏

[@sirubenpo]

Sir, you are my Virtual Coach your Knowledge helping me to win some of my races

[@BulletproofCycling]

Awesome Ruben 👍👍

[@guspecunia5887]

My new TCR ( boxing day ) has a D shaped or propriety seat post, the set back is minimal compared to some bikes I’ve purchased… I’ve always swapped the OEM post for a zero setback…. so as I’ve had to do the majority ( about 1400mi ) of my riding this year indoors I think I’m ready to start diving into the set up since I think I’ve settled into the bike by now… This video was GREAT! I’ll be applying the lesson see where I am….BTW joining your Patreon page as I’m really impressed by your advice and knowledge coach!! Cheers from Richmond Va.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks Gus ❤️👍

[@gmivisualsjason3729]

Excellent information

[@BulletproofCycling]

Glad it was helpful!

[@dougk7965]

This has been the best explanation. Thank you

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@christopherwelch5568]

numb hands and scrunched up neck... yep that describes it. I need to micro-adjust my seat. I'm on a straight handlebar commuter bike, not a fancy racing bike but it is uncomfortable and I thought I needed different handlebars. Thanks for the clear explanation.

[@BrunoSantos-jb4vx]

Thx for the video coach!!! 💪👍

[@BulletproofCycling]

My pleasure

[@jameslopez958]

Much appropriate the straight forward information Brother 😎. Peace ✌️ and Love 💕 from Tucson Arizona Desert 🏜️.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you James ❤️👍

[@randolphowen4587]

Just a great video. Well done

[@BulletproofCycling]

Many thanks!

[@waynesmith4589]

Great 👍 , thank you Scott

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks Wayne

[@abfutrell]

In the last week I moved my saddle another 5mm forward (was already +5mm), so I'm now 1 cm forward from neutral and I raised my saddle 5 mm to compensate. This was the result of a mountain ride last week. I noticed my tendency was to sit on the nose of the saddle to maintain cadence and to get over the top of the pedal stroke. There were 3 separate climbs that averaged 9% for 2 miles each. ~7,000 feet of climbing. So far my power seems higher and I'm setting PRs on segments with hundreds of efforts without working any harder.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Sounds great 👍

[@Chrisp_az]

Great stuff!! Thank you. 🇺🇸

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks 🙏

[@syaifulakhwanbrosingabina2360]

Great video coach

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you Mohd

[@khaddamsedirasolallah5912]

Very informative video

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks 🙏

[@robertbotta6536]

Good one bro. Thanks

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@petersteadman841]

✌️ Thank you for making your videos.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you Peter

[@dipanjanbiswas4924]

loved the video

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you

[@jameslopez958]

Coach Good Information! Peace ✌️ and Love 💕 from Tucson Arizona Desert 🏜️

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks James

[@margaretrichardson3212]

Thanks for the tips in this video. I have just completed the Yorkshire Classic middle distance, and got very sore hamstrings near the glutes and also sore hands. I was planning on putting the saddle back, but having watched the video, I think I will be moving it forward. Hopefully that will take the strain off my hands, and ease the hamstrings at the same time. When I get back from Holland in a few weeks, I intend to get a proper bike fit.

[@BulletproofCycling]

I hope your bike fit helps. Feel free to keep me posted

[@tataitibia]

For those with knee injuries: try to put the saddle a litte to back, do it in minimal milimeters for once, this helps me so much that i dont now how to explaine, in two weeks my knees feels much better, no pain.

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍

[@GP-fc7jv]

Thanks 🙌🏻

[@BulletproofCycling]

You’re welcome 😊

[@Anonymous.User.0419]

Great video and amazing accent!

[@BulletproofCycling]

😂😂👍

[@Hermod_Hermit]

The more bike fitting videos I watch, the more I appreciate that I've always bought bikes that are just a tad too large. I have bought most of them by going on "recommendations" by the manufacturers. My personal problem is that I got long legs, thus a relatively short upper body, so reach is constantly an issue. I am down to 60mm stem on my road bike, and now it works fine but if I had a chance I'd rather like to downsize a fram size and get a slightly longer stem.

[@emailForDye]

When I had my first bike fit, she used the KOPS method for the setup. The one thing you said today that I haven't caught in any of your previous videos was about the pushing over the top. I know my right leg starts pushing about 5-7 degrees before top center. I will move forward a bit and test that out. I rode a wee century yesterday and I have a wee bit of discomfort above my knee caps today. I'm wondering if you've been watching me and this is the reason you brought out this video when you did. I'll let you know if there are any improvements.

[@BulletproofCycling]

😂😂😂 not spying buddy! You want to float over the top - try the one legged drills 👍👍

[@VishnuRajendranAmboo]

Thanks.. a very good info It's a bit of trail and error when you don't have someone to help you to ensure your settings..

[@BulletproofCycling]

Just keep spinning 👍

[@davegee124]

love it thank you.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you David 👍

[@HenriksenDolf]

I am so thankful that I‘ve found your channel. Do have tipps for flatbars too?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you. Need to add flat bars to next live video chat 👍👍👍

[@SuperDodoe]

Excellent..TY!

[@jerryavalos9610]

I've come across two schools of thought on saddle fore and aft. First school believes that the saddle is adjusted to get the knees over the pedal spindle. If you want to adjust reach, you shorten or lengthen the stem. Second school believes that the saddle is adjusted so you are balanced on the bicycle meaning if you can take off your hands off the handlebars and not fall forward, then you are perfectly balanced on the bicycle. Reach is again based on shortening or lengthening the stem.

[@BulletproofCycling]

I am defo not a fitter that sets up using knee over pedal spindle 👍👍👍

[@HellAnimo]

@@BulletproofCycling Can you elaborate why? The angle of your knee compared to he pedals seems importand to me.

[@alexBoblee]

Hello coach.Thanks for the videos help a lot. I wanted to ask if what you mention in the video can be applied to mountain biking.thank you very much for the help

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yes you can! It can be slightly different but not that much

[@robsampson4971]

Thanks for the vid new subscriber here out started watching your back catalogue of vids. I have had a bike fit about a year ago and have gone back multiple times because of saddle sores etc.i have also tried lots of saddles.I have tried lowering it 5mm and adjusting the fore aft,but as I ride longer especially on the trainer.I always want to sit as far back on the saddle even though it's not the right spot,any suggestion would be appreciated,thanks for your time

[@BulletproofCycling]

Happy for you to send me an email and I could give you some suggestions 👍

[@subtropicalken1362]

Just happened on your channel and very much enjoy the content and have subscribe. Question: I’m not getting the 120 measurement. From where is that measured and is it mm or percent? The measurements are no problem I can do that all day. Thanks! Never mind. I saw your other “live” recorded video from a year ago that explained it.

[@alanhickerson2345]

Which one of your videos explains the 120 position? Thanks!

[@Jazz-uu3dk]

Been playing with position for weeks now, still not comfy 100%. At first I felt like I really have to reach too far so changed the stem from 120mm to 100, still grabbing the handlebar away from the brakes so moved saddle forward more. Get numb hands almost instantly with discomfort in my thumb muscles. Dont think going with shorter stem will change it for the better so will have to try the mummy thing and see what might be the culprit. Keep up the good work.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Hope you get things sorted

[@krisztianbuglavecz3121]

this my very first comment on YT. I like your style, and explanations to make people understand bike settings what sometimes seems otherwise rocketscience to begginers like me. I needed to sharpen my ears as English is not my mother tongue :-) t bijk=bike but a big thumb up! (anyway I am 178cm, how long of my crank should be? thx)

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you. 🙏 I would suggest 170mm is the longest you would need 👍👍👍

[@manongpo]

As always great content! Question Coach Scott, im 5'10 885 inseam what length of crank should i be in? Thank u Coach!

[@BulletproofCycling]

We are similar so 170mm would be ideal 👍

[@bob-pq6kd]

I like you're explanation.. and love you're videos.... I have a question, Should the seat be level or parallel to the floor?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Each person will have different approach depending on their riding (races, endurance, leisure, age, weight etc) The rails on various saddles will dictate how the saddle sits eg. ISM saddle will tilt forward with parallel rails. So I always suggest that you make sure you have your rails parallel (safety). With a saddle a few degrees tilted down you have the opportunity to roll pelvis forward easily but can overload the front end more! Personally I prefer getting people into a better saddle height and foe/aft position and then deciding if a short nose saddle is better. Hope this helps. I should prob do a video on it 👍

[@LEARNHOMEOPATHY]

I'm 69yrs old and getting back into cycling and watching lots of your videos. Very helpful indeed thanks! .I'm struggling to understand why I feel the need to have my saddle even further back. I'm currently riding a Specialized hybrid bike with straight handlebars and a Brooks Flyer saddle (on tarmac'ed but very rough roads). Getting a normal road bike next year. My inside leg (sitting on a book spine against the wall) is 89.5cm.. From what you suggest I should be at a saddle height of 10 cm less (79.5) but as I cycle I find I keep needing to raise it until it is comfortable at 82cm. I was getting some inside knee pain yesterday when it was lower after a couple of hours but that improved after I moved the saddle up to where it is now, at 82cm (7.5 short of inside leg). This sounds too high from your description but it' seems to be where Im comfortable, more or less. The 'less' part is that I feel I want my saddle further back still . I find I want to sit right at the back of it. It is currently set to about 3/4 of the way back form where's possible but I'm worried about putting too much strain on the rails.

[@BulletproofCycling]

This method is pretty crude as it sounds like you could have longer femurs. I would suggest getting comfy is more important for you. Try using just the foot on saddle method for both sides and see what the difference is with Lemond formulae 👍👍👍

[@beemrdon52]

I had to put my Campy set back seatpost back on the bike as the forward weight was affecting the handling, especially going down hill. My next move will be to raise the handlebar as I am getting some neck discomfort with holding my head up.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Good luck

[@fernandosanchez6953]

Good morning Coach, Newbie here in your channel, great content 👌. Quick question, does this also applies to tri bikes? I'm doing half distance (70.3), still trying to find the best saddle fit adjustment so the ride is comfy and the run is 🚀. Thank you!

[@BulletproofCycling]

You will be a lot more forward in terms of loading on the front end due to your arm rests. Your hip can be forward anywhere from 20-100mm depending on bike or position. However you want position that tries to gain aero position with high hands - this won’t necessarily compromise aero position as it’s about hands and head being close but this helps open the hip flexor so you move into run (with maybe less discomfort !?) I would guess you are practicing a lot on your bike to run transition so try and get sone images from the side as you ride your triathlon bike and relate the position to the feel! Hope this helps

[@monkmchorning]

My formula for setback for years has been balance. With my preferred back angle and my hands on the hoods, I want my center of gravity roughly over the balls of my feet when I'm applying power. Too far back and I lose power and the front of the bike doesn't stay planted. Forward is definitely more powerful, but too far forward feels like doing push-ups. My idea is to maintain the back angle with core muscles and just a light touch on the handlebar. Perched on my saddle, I really feel like I'm sitting on a bar stool reaching for a beer. Do you have any thoughts on this?

[@BulletproofCycling]

You have the right concept Eric. Just far enough forward with good saddle height to exert the power from quads and glutes etc. sounds like you have good stability through cleat position. Keep doing the strength work on your triceps and back muscles and you’ll have no probs with bars 👍👍👍👍

[@thepatternforms859]

For iron man triathlon we run out saddles slammed all the way up forward as it will go. At least even with the bottom bracket and maybe even in front of it

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍👍

[@fethimouhoub4163]

hello coach thank you very much for answering my question on the dysfunction at the hip level can we solve this problem by playing on the adjustment of the wedges I wish you a good day

[@BulletproofCycling]

My pleasure 👍

[@michaelsingh843]

Hi Coach! I enjoy these bike setup videos. Gives me an idea of what to feel as a social/club rider! I want to play around with my stem lenght to give me more control at high speed downhills, what lenght would you start with? Or not go lower than?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Easy for me to say that 100mm but I know this is not always possible. I have moved folks to 80mm that they have been fine but some tell me they can hold 40mph downhill ok on a 60mm

[@michaelsingh843]

@@BulletproofCycling Thank coach! Was also leaning toward 100mm, I have 80mm on the bike and speeds above 40mph gets scary! My handlebar is a size to small 43cm shoulders also! Heading off to the bike shop in a few days, re look at the seat placement and take from there... 120mm from the back!👍

[@dubidoo8606]

Hi Coach, what should be the correct crank arm length for 5'3 1/2 height like me? thank you for creating these great videos

[@rickster6.0]

Thanks for the video Coach! Since the geometry is different do the same principles apply to MTB setups? I’m riding my MTB exclusively on the road and rail trails not on anything technical.

[@BulletproofCycling]

If you are on the road then pretty much the same 👍

[@sleephealing4009]

Very informative coach. I love your mummy position measurement. I am planning to build another roadie, and also planning to try shorter crank arm length. My height is 162cm and my inseam is 76.5cm, so what could my crank arm length? 🙂

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏 There is no key rule to observe with crank arm - pros at your height. Roglic similar but maybe wee bit taller is 170 (whole team are 170 actually and some guys are very tall) If you prefer low cadence bigger gear then you will suit the 170. If you prefer softer gears and higher cadence then look at 168 or even 165. If you have chance to demo then great but certainly I wouldn’t recommend going over 170!

[@sleephealing4009]

@@BulletproofCycling Noted! Thank you

[@nicholasfitzgerald1999]

Hey Coach, thanks for the great videos. Rapid question: What is the ideal set back number after doing the subtraction? Cheers

[@BulletproofCycling]

Depends on lots of metrics but I find a lot of road bikes at or around 100-150mm

[@82HEADCASE]

Excellent video. I recently just bought myself a used cannondale optimo caad4 road bike and iv being play with the set up since i bought it. I take it out for an hours ride then come home and make adjustments based on how it feels ... Now thanks to this video im sure the bike is to long for me! Like the coach im 5'10'" Lean build and fairly flexable .... if a 54 cm bike is to long for coach then the 56 i bought most definitely is😂. Id appreciate a reccomended stem length just to confirm my taughts on an 80mm???? Current stem is 100mm i believe so im hoping a 80mm will give me that 54cm bike fit i need i think 🤔. Any way loved the video and will be trying out the mummy position tomorrow. Thanks agen 👍

[@BulletproofCycling]

Awesome - thanks for sharing

[@luisrosario4710]

Salute good video 🙏👍🔥🇵🇷💯

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@BenjaminWasHere]

I've watched several of Your videos now re seat position. The one variable that I don't see you've talked about yet is critical: Seat Height. You speak about moving forward 5mm, means you should move seat up 3-5mm...but...up from what starting point? Up from what height? Or, down from what height? You give great detail and explanation of Forward, Back,...what is the base height before you raise up 3mm? Does that make sense? If I move forward 5mm, and should compensate seat height by raising it 3-5mm - what if seat height was already at the max height? Maybe there's something I missed? I hope You understand my confusion? Thanks!

[@BulletproofCycling]

Hi - I have covered seat height in quite a few videos. I am not very good with KZbin tech at present but will create easier to follow playlists and revisit seat height. Thanks 🙏

[@drewbyscoobywho]

Hi Scott, just found your channel and am loving going through the back catalogue. So much great information. I have a question if you don’t mind ? I’ve recently started to feel my VMO area doing a lot of the work whilst riding, even during short 30 to 45 minute easy rides. I’m also getting cramping in my adductors near that area several hours after riding. Any ideas what could be causing this? FYI, I had a bike fit last September with a reputable fitter and had new lake shoes with custom insoles and my position slightly changed, saddle height increase and stem length increase. I had no issues whilst riding following the fit last year and it’s only since getting back on the bike in the last couple of months that this issue has happened. Thanks Drew.

[@BulletproofCycling]

for the nice comment, hopefully you can video production move from crap to average hahaha. It obvioulsy could be a number of things but are you stretching out quads after rides and working on hip mobility as well as hip flexor work. Sometimes I see riders get very dominant on their preferred side and this causes the issue. It doesn't sound like crank arm issue if you had no trouble before. You may just have caused a slight imbalance buddy. Try and do a loop several times BUT all at very different intensities and see how you feel.

[@ShadowzKiller]

Go wider with your q factor.

[@timtaylor9590]

i raised the nose of my saddle and brought my levers back some to take some pressure off my upper body/neck.

[@BulletproofCycling]

I am sharing a video this week about pressure on hands/wrist etc that impacts the neck 👍

[@HennieBours]

Hallo, In the last few weeks I rode a lot and I have a now also a 2nd bike (Trek Checkpoint) which is set up as my other bike (Trek Domane) but I started to get pain on the outside of my left knee. Most probably an IT band problem. The strange thing is that it is present let's say the first hour and disappears afterwards more or less but can also come back. I also feel that the day after a ride, my quadriceps feel tired when walking up the stairs or when pushing on them. During the ride I don't feel that burning pain in my quadriceps. It is only present after the ride and stays there more or less for a few days. My question is now if this is an issue caused by the saddle to high/low or by a for/aft position error of the saddle? The feeling on the bike when paddling is great but the result is some pain and burning quads afterwards. Thanks for your support. Greetings from Belgium 🇧🇪.

[@keldamcgurk4015]

Just got a new bike with a downtube that is angled farther back than my other bikes (maybe a mtb geometry?). I typically ride a Trek 520 touring bike. This one is Yuba Spicy Curry AT. I find it terribly uncomfortable, and I think it is because I am trying to ride hard, while the position of full leg extension is with my foot out ahead of my hips and knees. I would like to shift the whole cockpit position forward to bring me over the bottom bracket. It would also mean getting handlebar extension to put my hands out over the center of the front wheel. Do you think that would make sense, and have you seen any seat posts that have a crook that could bring me forward by inches rather than mm? Thank you for the help!

[@Jayjay-gd2gc]

Hello coach great video! What normally size of crankset, handlebar and stem would you recommend to a person with a height of 5’4? Base on your experience in bike fitting

[@BulletproofCycling]

Obviously everyone is different but I would suggest something around 165 crankset and 380-400mm bars. Stem on any well sized bike should be around 90-100mm Obviously this is a rough estimate

[@petersteadman841]

Hi coach, thank you for your excellent content. Its helpful and educational. Was wondering if you could please help? When I'm cycling I feel mainly quads working (burn). I don't feel anything in my calfs and only occasionally on the side and back of upper legs. Is this normal? I'm riding flat pedals (mtb), normally at lower rpm pushing hard. Kind regards 👍

[@BulletproofCycling]

Usually means your saddle could benefit from going up a little

[@petersteadman841]

Thank you coach! It worked 😎. I'm putting more power down and smashing my strava personal segment record's. I reckon I can go up a bit further before my hips waggle in the saggle. It's amazing what positive difference a extra inch has made. Gig gigitty 🤣. Thanks again coach👍

[@markhill9275]

General rule, Road bike, 1 to 1.5 inch behind centre of crank, Track .5 behind centre of crank. Having said this it is a very subjective thing, Le Cannibale after his back injury would stop during a race to adjust his seat height, as his back felt.

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍👍👍

[@danielnascimento9837]

Great stuff.. very thoughtful.. Quick question for you.. perhaps geeking out a bit.. if I/someone has 3 bikes (not saying I do), but.. if each bike has a different seat tube angle.. 71.2 slack, 72.5 sort of regular, 74 normal/aggressive.. assuming all bikes have same head tube angle.. would you standardize the saddle setback on all bikes (like at say 7cm)? and if so, would you expect that the slacker the seat tube the further backward the clamp would have to be on the saddle rail (saddle more foreward).. Or would you expect that in order to keep all seat post clamps in the middle of its rail, you would have to use different seatpost set back.. 0 mm, 17.5mm, 25mm. in order to achieve relative pedaling mechanics..

[@BulletproofCycling]

Great question. I would start with the inside seam and use the same distance to measure from BB to 120mm point on saddle. I would measure the rider at each position under the same power and feedback the differences. I have the capabilities to do this so can experiment on myself. May do this for a deeper dive video. May link in with crank arm length as well 👍👍👍

[@hedgefundsearch]

@@BulletproofCycling great point. On the 120mm point. I have noticed that if i set my sitting position on say a power saddle, which is 24cm long, and use another saddle say sqllab 612 saddle, which is 26.2cm long, you would think that once the “right” position is set on the power saddle, all that needs to be adjusted is the “length” difference right? But i have noticed that if i sit on power saddle because of is “curvature” at say 100mm from the front (I specially use a front measurement for the contact point being closer to front than other saddles) and i sit on the sqlab saddle 160mm from the front, because the curvature from front is less agressive, then JUST the length difference of the saddle would not be enough right.. so how would you find the “sit” point. The 120mm does tend to put the seatpost clamp in the middle of the rail, but does it work for different curvature ramp up?

[@BulletproofCycling]

@@hedgefundsearch that’s a good point - obviously I am being general and can’t take in all pelvic supports on each saddle. Both saddles are offering a different type of ride experience. Hope that makes sense. Ps Always check the stack height of each saddle and make sure they are similar as rails can be different and thus make saddle height different 👍

[@Jari1973]

Thank you for the video! Good channel! Isn’t it always worthwhile to be in the saddle as front and high as your own physics allow? Isn't it forbidden in the competition rules to keep the saddle too far?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yes 👍 always better to be forward than back 👍 rules in pro racing is more about TT positioning of saddle in relation to cockpit. 👍👍

[@jrclose3170]

Great video. I’ve just got a new winter commute road bike where I seem to be getting lactic acid build up in my inner thigh before anything else. I’ve had a guess etc with saddle height and for/aft. Not issue with my other summer bike so this is a new feeling. Any ideas on what could be causing the issue? Thank you.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Difficult to pin down but are you riding the exact same pedals? Is the stack height the same on both bikes and is the saddle height and measurement from saddle to hoods the same? Check these and maybe you have difference.

[@jrclose3170]

@@BulletproofCycling Thank you for the reply. it’s not the pedals as I have Assioma power meter pedals which I swap between bikes. I’ll check those measurements as if being honest I haven’t checked that at all. The Summer bike has had a professional bike fit and is spot on so I suppose the logic thing to do would be to basically copy that bike? Obviously the bikes are different geometry wise so would it be ok to copy saddle height for/aft etc from the summer bike? Thank you.

[@gerryger1731]

Hi good stuff Coach. What would you recommend for a forward crank cruiser type bike where you sit straight up? I ride hard and about 40-50 miles a day. Thank you Currently has the big padded seat which is terrible. Is my bike bad with the forward set cranks besides being inefficient? Thanks

[@BulletproofCycling]

That is a lot of miles. Well done. It sounds like you are doing great with your present set up. Remember that is the work works for you and the position let’s you achieve your goals then it’s perfect for you 👍👍👍

[@sherab2078]

I belong to this (relatively) few individuals of rather low height (162 cm). And this is causing me a lot of trouble with buying and setting up the bikes. Low budget don't help either, really. I have now the Kross Esker 2.0 with Microshift groupset (2023 model). And this is a nice bike for its price. But I bought the lowest possible frame size, and on the one hand, I can't set (with the original parts) the saddle back enough to not slide forward when getting my hands off the bars, and at the same time, I need to be reaching out forward to the hoods. Oh... and I had to cut the saddle tube to set the right height for me. Oh... why does the cycling industry hate low-height people so much?

[@yellowfit8071]

Hello, I have always had some issues with my left side : a little more weight on my left hand, my left calve getting more tired and tight than the other one, and lately some issue with my left hamstring. I'm coming to think either my left legg is shorter than my right one or I have tighter muscles on my left side which does not allow me to fully extend as I do on my right side. Additionally, all of my bibs show wear under the right part of the button...... Any ideas ....?

[@hzunasdfgbciw]

Well explained, got it: Maybe it's this or that. Or the stem.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@niccoloobaroncelli]

You're awesome :)

[@GingerPhotographer]

Great video - Do you have any advice for someone suffering from lower back issues "right side above hip" especially when riding uphill or pushing watts.. Thank you.

[@DogaTheGrall]

It sounds like hip flexor issue. If i were you, i would definitely hit a sports physio and ask for it. U may need some professional help

[@jenc7383]

Very helpful and informative video, thanks Coach! 😉 I happened across this video as I am a beginner who just purchased a gravel bike. I am struggling to decide between two sizes. Smaller size felt like my hands landed perfectly on the hoods and felt good. However it felt like the seat needed to be positioned further back, though it was as far back as it could go. With the larger size, I could certainly feel that I was reaching out further, but not too dramatically, as I still have a slight bend in the elbow. Just doesn't fit as natural as the smaller bike. However, the seat position feels better. And is almost all the way forward. Which is the easier to correct? And therefore which size do I rather go for? The smaller or the larger? Thoughts? Would I be correct in assuming that if I were to get a new bike stem for the smaller bike that allows me to sit further back, that would further my reach and my hands probably won't land on the hoods as naturally anyway? In terms of geometry between the 2 sizes, I am told that the reach is the same, but there is a 19mm difference in stack. And 30mm difference in seat tube. It's astounding how mms and cms can make such a difference in feel! Would appreciate your opinion.

[@qiancarlmabulay3195]

go for smaller size so that you have plenty of option to adjust like on cockpits, unlike if you have large size like long TT length it will become limited to adjust cockpit if you have reach issue

[@FreshDirtyWater]

I will have to try that mummy approach. Noticing some butt soreness this spring and it seems like it's in tissue in front of my sit bones. My setup has been kind of set it and forgot it. So, something maybe could do with a little adjusting. Would not have guessed you are in your fifties. I guess cycling is good for you! 👍

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks for comment Matt - keep me posted 👍

[@daf_jockey736]

Hi coach, just found you're videos. Suffering with numb hands and sore neck. If I am having to reach would this be more a shorter stem is needed rather than pushing the saddle about? I also find, on the trainer, that if I ride without hands I feel like I'm sliding forward, so could this also be a tilt issue. Thanks

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yep sounds like stem issue. Experiment with tilt on trainer but try first to pop up the front wheel higher!

[@davidsmith-ws4bz]

Very good video, I've been riding a Giant Talon 1 and getting sore knees and an ache in my crutch, my handlebars are back, to flat, my seat is level and positioned at the 120 middle of the post, I've tried everything with this bike incl new seat, any suggestions greatly appreciated.

[@durianriders]

Lower your seat by 2cm and see how you go with saddle pressure.

[@_RandomPea]

Hey, great instructions, I've followed it today to reset my position. Question, on the saddle I have from my triban it has 0,1,2,3 labeled on the rail... You say to go in the middle right? I just wondered why '0' wouldn't be the center... Seems a bit daft.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Cycling is full of strange and quirky things but I guess that’s why we love it

[@_RandomPea]

@@BulletproofCycling I went for the middle in the end as seemed sensible. I did find a position that caused no back pain but it was ridiculously low and I had no power... So I've since gone back up. My bike fit last year replaced my stem from 110 to a 70 but it's made no difference, stupidly I let him keep the 110. Do you have a vid on measuring reach and drop? I think saddle is now in the right place following your vids but how do i know if the drop is too great?

[@pasav8314]

Coach, could you please give me the enlightment on "120 points" reference? Love your videos!! Regards from Indonesia

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you It’s just a reference point used for measurements - it helps keep measurements consistent when doing body limb measurements onto the bike 👍👍

[@willytseng8504]

great video! Hi coach, i’m currently 188cm tall and have a 89cm inseam, is a 170mm crank too short for me to go with road bike races? I wonder the power output could go up if i change it to a longer crank such as 175mm? Normally I train in all terrains

[@BulletproofCycling]

I would say no, it’s not too short. Your power is a combination of the lever length, torque (gear) and your velocity (cadence) - so it depends on lots of variables. Not to mention hip strength and femur length etc. However, I would say for racing that it could offer you more hip room to roll forward and engage glutes etc. you could be more reactive to changes in group speed. However, purely personally but I would go 170 👍

[@hmfic802]

@kineticcyclecoaching so...as a former road racer ('80s to '00s), I always set up my fore/aft saddle location based on knee cap over the pedal axle...then there's cleat placement (which I've shifted back a touch over the years)...so, is this still a valid approach?

[@Morten_B]

Nice video, thanks :) One comment: Front of saddle for reference is no good with all these short nose saddles . But even the "120 point" referenced from the rear will be dependent on seat design. I think measuring the point where the seat is about the width of your pelvis bones are the most "universal" across saddle designs? At least that's what I've been doing recently.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks - if it works for you then keep going. We use the 120 mark as it helps create a start point and is generally close enough to where folks rest on the saddle in fairly neutral position. Using the nose of the saddle just gives you a reference point if you have no other measurements. Always about having a starting point and then tweaking with small movements 👍👍👍

[@Morten_B]

I noticed this especially with the Prologo Dimension saddle, that has a quite long wide area, that when comparing with a Prologo Scratch (or more normal road saddles) nose or rear reference is way off.

[@BulletproofCycling]

@@Morten_B yes the dimension is not one of my favourites. When compared with the Selle Boost it’s night and day 👍

[@SteveLi123]

Hi Coach, is it normal to have knees behind spindles? Both of my bikes are in size 53 and I'm having a hard time to get the saddle forward enough to reach KOPS, so I followed your method and I find my knees are very behind pedals, however it definitely feels better in terms of balance and handling. Thanks.

[@BulletproofCycling]

KOPS is quite dated but is good starting point and it sounds like you have got yourself in a good position 👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@Knud451]

Thanks! What you mention around 7:15 about the glutes being deactivated because the reach is too long, would simply indicate that you need to move the saddle forward (all other things equal)?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Ideally yeh. Having the saddle forward helps with glute engagement. I see lots of riders not using their glutes

[@GrantSpoon]

Hey coach. I used to race many years ago and used 170mm cranks. I'm 5'11" and these days bikes come with 175mm which feels very cumbersome to me. I've experimented with 165mm and really enjoyed it. What do you think? Great video and good ideas.

[@mochno1]

this is the new topic of the cyclist :-)

[@mariojavier1623]

hey Scott. Good information. Question for you. My IT band have been tight and sore after I fitted my new bike to the same measurements as my old bike. I am also experiencing some soreness after a bike ride of 2 hour. My hamstrings are a bit sore in comparison to the rest of the muscle group. Do I have an issue with my fore/aft or just the seat height? My old bike have the same dimensions as the new bike. The only difference is that the new bike came with a 25lmm set back post and a 110mm 6 degrees stem. My old bike have 100mm 6degrees stem with 25mm set back post but the saddle cannot be moved back further as it run out of rail.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Could be your saddle is higher (longer length) from cleat to pelvis if saddle further back. The extra 10mm reach could be closing your hip angle. IT band issues usually originate from the pelvis. Try bringing saddle forward and experimenting with the position. Then try lowering the saddle 5mm and seeing how you go?

[@mariojavier1623]

@@BulletproofCycling - what do you mean 120mm where the pelvic usually sits? is that 120mm from the back of the saddle or from the nose?

[@thereopellesjohncynthia5675]

I’m buying a new bike this week and I want to be able to take about proper fit with the shop. I have a 32” inseam and was wondering what size crank I would need. The bike comes with a 172.5 but they allow you to select other sizes. Any help would be appreciated. I’m glad I came across your channel and am a new subscriber.

[@frogspotter7445]

My new bike a few months ago came with 172.5 cranks and I recently changed to 170 cranks (33” inseam, 5’10). Each person’s anatomy is of course different, but 170 was recommended for me following a bike fit with a well known bike fitter a few years ago.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Good luck! I have similar inside seem and never go above 170 crank

[@polinae11202010]

hi coach thank you so much for this share.. the mummie position basically changed the way i ride my bike.. i never thought it is this easy and now i enjoy more my cycling.. i can do 200km without any discomfort now cause i am reaching my bars that way it should be.. i just noticed that when i put power on the drops say above my FTP, i can feel a very little numbness on my hands.. is this because i am gripping my bars too much or something that i need to change like (adding 5mm spacer on the stem)?.. when im pedaling below or on my FTP i dont feel any discomfort.. thanks again ciaoooo

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks for sharing

[@polinae11202010]

@@BulletproofCycling hi coach ciao.. i think my saddle is MM too far forward, making all the weight in front.. i adjust my saddle 3mm backwards and dropped my saddle height 2mm and see how it goes😊😊😊

[@mlee6050]

Just wanted to ask seatpost with setback is it safe to turn them around so setback bit is forward? Thinking to do as got two stems that are too long for me to manage to get into the drops

[@gunnarkoss9262]

Main goal of a Race-roadbike was (isn't?) getting upper body down, by stretching and lowering. Comfort only exists on straight Handlebar.

[@MrSteamDragon]

So are you suggesting to put the 120mm point in line with the seat post to start off with, then use trial and error to make fine adjustments? Thanks.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yes, it’s where your sit bones will rear in neutral position 👍

[@adriantiu]

Hey coach great video. I have a question regarding seat posts with setback vs. inline. Do you change the saddle fore-aft when switching from one to the other?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yes you will be further forward. 👍👍👍

[@frx_dasalatpagninilay]

Just a question. I have used a dfuse seatpost on my giant revolt and now switched to a zero offset. How to determine the measurements

[@zaahierstanley955]

💯

[@mohamedrawshan280]

Hello, Thank you for the great content. My height is 177cm and my road bike size is M. I set my saddle all the way back to make it knee over the pedal spindle. What is your opinion in this regard? Is it okay to make my saddle all the way back or I should go with the L frame where the saddle will be in the middle?

[@DR_1_1]

Forget about the kotp just find your best position, and better the smaller frame size than the larger when between 2 sizes, so M should fit...

[@khaddamsedirasolallah5912]

ty sir

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍👍

[@henritjuatja5393]

Hi coach want to ask, distance from my saddle nose to wall 74cm, from centre my bb to wall 74 cm subtract is zero, and then measure from saddel tail 12cm then measure it to wall and when u get the measure, what the distance from wall to bb or it must same distance. very grateful for the advice.

[@BulletproofCycling]

I can’t give you a specific distance as I would need to bike fit you. The distance gives you an idea when you are moving it and making references to how it feels etc. if you are able to measure from your BB to the 120mm point on saddle then I can make some estimates based on inside seam.

[@lorrefrecker3375]

Just curios like to know how wide a mountain bike handlebar should be do you measure it the same way?