How To Relocate Floor Joist For Plumbing Pipes - Using Double Joist and Headout

www.homebuildin... Click on this link if you're looking for more floor framing repair videos. This is the second video in a three-part series on how to repair floor joist that has been damaged or cut in half. The examples in this video will use double joist framing methods for the repairs. Remember, these are only examples and might not work in every situation or something that would be recommended by a structural engineer.

[@TravisSimpson-w8p]

It took me years to understand what you were talking about I mean as First start watching you when I retired in Germany, but now I’m ready. 6:03 😊🎉

[@gregvancom]

Better late than never:)

[@noahhobson3774]

Usually j don’t like videos in this format. But you did a really good job with it all. Easy to understand. Happy to follow!

[@gregvancom]

Awesome, thank you!

[@DIYApprentice]

Cool graphics. I had to head off joists using the second method when I started remodeling my bathroom. The builders had notched too deeply in the top of the joist to accommodate a shower drain.

[@100loki001]

Great video. What is the widest distance you can use this method to cover? Could I tripple up and create a box section 4 or 5 foot wide?

[@khalkhali1960]

Thank you for this, I realy love the way you explain the procedure.

[@gregvancom]

You are so welcome!

[@jrkul393]

How would you go about doubling the outer joists if you don’t have access to the middle beam of the structure? Could you run it as far as possible and stagger bolt 16 on center?

[@kajekage9410]

What is the method for undoing the plumbers box? I'm doing a full renovation and have to put the plumbers box elsewhere and was thinking I should undo the existing ones.

[@gregvancom]

You can reframe section or add small joists in box.

[@silvarehel]

Hi, I am doing a DIY home renovation of a 100 yr old house. We are putting through a SElkirk chimney for a wood stove right in the middle of the house. We noticed that all joist are 18” center to center apart. We were lucky to be perfectly aligned top roof to wood oven except for 1 joist. We need to cut it 18” short of Laos bearing center do the 10” chimney pipe can go up straight and levelled. Can we cut it and brace it to the others running side by side of that one? Do we need to double the ones running side by side with the piece being braced as this video? The layout is almost identical to my situation except all our sub floor joist run straight across (hemlock wood/thicker then the norm today). Thanks!

[@gregvancom]

I can't tell you what to cut or replace, but send me a picture and I see if I can offer an opinion.

[@JJ-iu5hl]

What would you do if there is a duct running between the joists where you were going to put your doubler?

[@JO-cj2dv]

Using your second example, could you use the method to span multiple joist instead of just one?

[@gregvancom]

I've seen it done, but cutting through multiple joists might require engineering approval or even additional footings or beams.

[@Birdsoul01]

Nice video! What size wood did you use to act as the new supports that the joist attaches to? I need to do this to one of my joists as well.

[@gregvancom]

Most of the time you use the same size lumber that you're working with for the floor joist. In other words if the existing floor joists are two by eights, then you can use two by eights for the head outs.

[@voiceofREASONS]

I need to notch 1.65" from the top of 2x8. The notch would only be to accommodate a 1 1/2 pipe so the notch will probably be around 1.25" inch wide and 1.66" deep. It would again be on the top and only about 14" from the wall support. Is it possible to just reinforce with a couple of 2x8 jog runs possibly? Love the video and thank you!

[@dosadoodle]

Late to be useful to you, but maybe useful to others: I think you can notch out that much from the end 1/3rd of a joist and have it be okay. I think this was covered in another video on this channel about notching and cutting holes in joists.

[@gpc8337]

What would that look like with the silent floor joists , the plywood joist with board on top and bottom. I’m wanting a toilet installed exactly above one

[@gregvancom]

About the same, you would need to double up the outside joist and for your headouts in the same way, but might use top flange hangers.

[@StellsBellz]

At the 2:50 mark of the video. Can you tell me how big you can span that opening. I have a treadmill in the basement but my ceilings are quite high enough.

[@krzysztofmekwinski8620]

Same question. Same problem. Did you find the answer?

[@StellsBellz]

@@krzysztofmekwinski8620 nope. Never did move the treadmill

[@hots4jc]

Could you please explain how to add a header on a load-bearing wall in a Balloon Frame house? I can’t get an engineer who has any experience in this type of housing.

[@gregvancom]

I put it on my list, but don't know when I will be making it. Thanks for the video idea.

[@dosadoodle]

One idea that I heard from a builder (I have a similar situation) is to basically build a header below the window as well and run it out an extra stud on each side from the regular window header (because there are no jacks/trimmers for that below-window header). This creates a stiff platform for the wall above that is well-distributed across the studs below. Of course, this results in a lot of the wall being opened up as well as adding significantly to the thermal bridging, especially if you don't have exterior insulation. I also would at least run this by the building department to get their assessment (ours said this plan would be okay in a gable-end wall, which was my situation).

[@andycrump994]

What size joist hangars are you using? They would have to be 3 inches to double up two 2x"s right? Where do you get those?

[@gregvancom]

Yes they are often referred to as double joist hangers and would usually represent a 3 inch measurement. You can also use four by hangers or hangers that are 3 1/2 inches wide and then install a scrap piece of lumber or plywood in between the hanger and the double joist. I don't know where you're located, but items like these are often found at lumber yards, hardware stores or home improvement centers.

[@andycrump994]

@@gregvancom Got it I'll check it out thanks for the info.

[@apacherose7337]

I want to repair two heater register holes in the floor---no longer have the heater. I have only looked at one location so far but a joist was cut to allow placement of a register. Can I double up on both cut ends of joist and attach that to single joists on either side? I imagine it is better than what is there now. It appears to be two by four framing just toe nailed into the single joists on either side and into the sub floor. It appears to be in decent shape as is but it wasn't done properly to begin with and I don't want to leave it like that.

[@gregvancom]

Feel free to send me some pictures for more information, but it sounds like you might have a pretty good plan. You can get our email address at the website.

[@Eastbaypisces]

what about if I have same situation but in attic 4 13' joists from and want to cut a piece of one out to make way for a new attic access, my question is do I have to double up on the other joists as well or can I just do the doubler/header thing? would be hard to get 13' pieces up there.

[@gregvancom]

I cannot provide you with engineering advice, but think that a 13 foot span might require doublers around the entire perimeter of the opening. Keep in mind that if you're going to use this area for storage, then it might even make more sense to double up the joist around the opening.

[@jazzmelodies]

Can explain a bit about basement window headers inside the joists plz

[@gregvancom]

There usually aren't any basement window headers located in the floor joist. Is there something else you are referring to?

[@ldstirling]

Your diagrams only show the floor joists and engineering fixes when there aren't already plumbing and electrical running through existing holes in floor joists. How does adding a doubler and moving a floor joist work, to accommodate a shower drain if you have existing electrical and plumbing running through joists in an existing home?

[@grudman100]

I do need to box in a cut off joist to accommodate new bathroom plumbing but the joist to be cut is a double joist. Does that mean I should be making sure the single joists either side of the cut joist are doubled? They are currently singles.

[@gregvancom]

I don't recommend cutting a double joist, because it might be supporting a load bearing wall, but if you have to, then it wouldn't be a bad idea to install a concrete footing underneath each side with a post or some type of support system.

[@coreymcclanahan4556]

Are you allowed to cut hole in the doubled header? I am allowed to cut a 3" hole in my joist, but the tee measures 4 so i need to box around the tee then go threw the double header with 3" pipe

[@gregvancom]

I cannot provide you with structural engineering information, but can tell you that is not a common construction practice. For example I've never done it before and wouldn't recommend cutting more than might be allowed by your local building authorities or building inspectors.

[@coreymcclanahan4556]

@@gregvancom thank you! I have decided to just drop my ceiling 4" to accommodate.

[@michaelabelaj1581]

What would you recommend for having to go through 2 floor joists? I need to run a 3" toilet drain through 2 10" floor joists.

[@gregvancom]

You probably won't be allowed to do it, according to most building codes. My suggestion would be to drop the pipe into the ceiling area and then lower the ceiling height, if possible.

[@gregvancom]

Another idea would be to form some type of a box around the drainpipe that is sticking below the floor joist. Let me know if this doesn't make sense.

[@tellytellz5080]

@@gregvancom Hi is there a way to contact you maybe by email?

[@adampuccinosr8492]

When home builders install stairs they use this method at each end of the stair well opening. They usually span at least two joists. So yes it should be fine using this method to span two joists on a small scale. Also you can (in some states) cut a 3" hole through a 2"x10" as long as it is 2" from the top or bottom of the joists. I would (and have) in addition, cut 4 pieces 4 ft x 9.5in plywood, then glue and screw 1 piece to each side of the two 2×10's then drill my 3" holes. It never hurts to over Engineer. BUT, always check your local building codes. What is authorized in Bangor, Maine (snow loads) may not be authorized in San Diego, CA (earthquakes) or Topeka, Kansas (tornadoes) or even Dade County, Florida (hurricanes)

[@richbauer2]

What I understand is that if you are within 4 feet from an outside wall or beam, you don't need to add any sister boards to the two adjacent floor joists. All you need to do is to add a board the same dimensions as the floor joist that connects the two uninterrupted floor joists. And of course nail the cut floor joist into this board.

[@gregvancom]

I've never heard that one, but if you have any literature or building code information, I would love to see it.

[@claudew5582]

Can you use regular floor joist around the hole or must you use lvl joist?

[@gregvancom]

It would depend upon the situation. However, if you're using 2 x 10 joist, then you can probably use 2 x 10 construction standard lumber.

[@tompohl4953]

Won't those single hangers hang lower than the rest of the joists?

[@gregvancom]

They could, but you can always use smaller lumber if that's a problem.

[@jbh.6257]

Can this same principle be used to install a permanent set of stairs to an attic/2nd story??

[@adampuccinosr8492]

Absolutely, and this method is adopted from stair opening construction.

[@Thirdplace4life]

How would you double up a 15 foot joist on a finished house? How the hell would you get it in there with other plumbing, gas and electrical in the way? This would be impossible or cost a crazy amount. Might as well build another house.

[@gregvancom]

Hopefully this isn't Scarface, but if you have anything running through floor joist, then your project is going to require you to remove them, if possible and then do the repairs or if it's located in a crawlspace, you could always install additional concrete footings and framing supports.

[@Thirdplace4life]

@@gregvancom what your saying is crazy.

[@gregvancom]

@@Thirdplace4life I know, it's a lot of work, send me some pictures of your project or explain what it is you think is crazy.

[@Thirdplace4life]

@@gregvancom I have a joist in the way to go straight up with a hood/range vent is all. I have 3 inch joists. It's a custom built house, not the garbage they make these days.

[@fordguyfordguy]

why not just sister a new joist? have done that a few times and if you can actually shoe horn the wood in there, it is a simple and strong solution.

[@gregvancom]

+Andrew Johnson You have raised a good point and I watched most of the video and only mentioned a few times that these scenarios could be used for plumbing pipes coming through the floor. I will modify the title and put a note in the video.

[@proudconservative3676]

I don't understand the need to add new joists to the existing joists on either side. Doubling the joists.

[@gregvancom]

It's a way to transfer the additional weight from the joists that you have cut to the building foundations. If you don't install the double joist on each side, then you would be putting additional stress on the single joist on each side.

[@ee7966]

Can u drill that to run 3” pipe

[@gregvancom]

I'm not an engineer, but I've seen it done before.

[@500ynot]

Can I cut off 2 joists and box it in?

[@gregvancom]

I can't answer that question because I don't know what the rest of the floor looks like. Feel free to send me some pictures and I will see what I can do, but keep in mind that I'm not a structural engineer and can only provide you with an educated guess.

[@matthewnoblett2521]

How would you do this with an engineered I joist

[@stevelopez372]

Matthew Noblett contact the manufacturer of the joist and find out if they have stock engineered repairs or they can provide it for your case.

[@watchmanexpert]

how replace the joist is close to the wall ?

[@gregvancom]

Send me a picture of what you're talking about.

[@watchmanexpert]

gregvancom how I can send the picture ?

[@Travlrsoulsurfr]

Your microphone is pushing static through the broadcast and it is very difficult for me to concentrate on what you are saying while that is occurring. Other than that I learned a lot. Thank you.

[@mike7gerald]

Too much talking. Just say Box in the cut off joist.

[@gregvancom]

I don't know if that would work for people who don't understand job site construction jibber jabber.

[@armenzehnaly6360]

I have a 35-year-old three-story apartment building built on a concrete subterranean garage. I am in the process of installing Mitsubishi's ceiling HVAC cassettes which measure around 14.25 inches wide. My first two floors have joists that are spaced 10" apart. My contractor wants to cut the joists, make a small box and strengthen it with Simpson strong ties If the building has 25 units and I want to install 1-3 cassettes in each unit, is this advisable? I would prefer not touching the joists and suspending the AC units inside a small soffit and drywalling it to make it look seamless with the interior design. The Mistubishi rep contractor recommends this method. I prefer this method but my licensed GC is telling me to cut the joists and fit the units in the ceiling flush. Everybody is licensed, and I am getting permits with the Los Angeles city dept, so no gorilla work here. Should I avoid cutting the ceiling joists? My goal is to renovate the building and make it a completely minimalist boutique-lux building but I don't want to weaken its structural integrity. I'm gonna speak with my architect and engineer on Monday, but my contractor is adamant that I do this. He's saying that reinforcing the joists will make them the strongest portions of the building, but I'm respectfully disagreeing with him... I'm seeking your advice here. Oh, the joists measure around 2x 12 I believe, or 2 x 10". I know the floors have 12inches in between them with a 2-inch softcrete on each level. I've also been adding recessed lighting in each unit so the joists already have new holes for the wires that were not there before. P.S.2 I'm thinking the soffit is a better idea incase I ever have any humidity or moisture from the mini split unit that might cause dry rot, no?

[@gregvancom]

I can't provide structural engineering information, but would contact an engineer, because you have some serious concerns that need to be answered.