How to safely fail on a hill - manual 4x4 edition

#manual4x4 #hillfail #driving #keystart #keyonoff
How do you safely fail a hill climb in a 4x4 vehicle? There's several different ways, and this is a good technique if you have a manual with low range that can be key-started. I'll cover some of the other techniques in due course. More here:
l2sfbc.com/keystarting-on-hil...
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[@L2SFBC]

FAQ 1. Why use engine braking coming downhill? This explains it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGq3mnubictjp8k 2. I will follow up with other failed-hill techniques for autos and manuals that cannot be keystarted.

[@operation4wheelz]

This is a massively underrated skill. I actually think a lot of instructors undersell this skill because they don’t realise how important it can be.

[@AussieDazza]

We were taught this during our 4x4 training in the RAAF in the Land Rover Perentie . Great skill to have.

[@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080]

I have not used that technique in 30 years. Thanks for reminding me of something I forgot.

[@L2SFBC]

You are so welcome!

[@mikeattheimagebusiness6215]

Brings back lots of memories of the original Defenders. Nicely explained. I did have a scary moment one time in a manual Range Rover, whilst on the descent it jumped out of reverse. Not nice!

[@aslkdfjhg]

Massively underrated skill. You may have already covered it but with the auto, selecting reverse then slowly throttling while left foot braking to crawl down. I call it 'poor man's regen braking.' People keep saying that it'll cook the brakes but I struggle to see that if you're only going 1kmh.

[@L2SFBC]

The auto version is coming. It will include that technique, but it's not the only technique.

[@elephant2627]

Allways part of BORDA training if a relevent vehicle is being used. we dont use the handbrake as time can be a factor, also we tend to have mud more often than not and handbrakes have a habit failing due to ingress of mud and water, so handbrakes are secondary to parking in the lowest gear.

[@L2SFBC]

Stand by for a faster version of this!

[@samday6621]

Phew, hard not to engage the clutch and let it stall. That will not only take practice but a reminder in this situation what the plan is. Thanks! 👍🏼

[@albertopamintuan6742]

It takes practice for it to become 2nd nature.

[@samday6621]

@@albertopamintuan6742 …especially after 37 years of engaging the clutch before stopping.

[@-Awareness]

I seen someone attempt this in a vehicle that they weren’t familiar with… turns out they assumed this technique would work, but didn’t realise the vehicle required a foot on the clutch to start it. Pretty scary situation…

[@albertopamintuan6742]

Newer models come with interlock clutch whereby the clutch must be depressed to key start. There is a slight modification and less secure technique to allow for this. Interlock clutch is included as a safety feature for people that are not frequent manual drivers, but it counter to good 4wd techniques.

[@nealesmith1873]

Great info! Also, be careful not to put the key in a position that locks the steering wheel.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, hence one click back

[@itubeyuutube]

Thank you, went on a Fwd driving course and they didn't teach us this ❤

[@L2SFBC]

Were you in an auto?

[@MattBlack6]

How this hell does a GU Patrol fail a hill climb? All jokes aside, great video Robert, thank you.

[@L2SFBC]

I know, right? Must have been my inability to drive, Nissans are unstoppable!

[@dtnicholls1]

You can run the same stall recovery procedure in first low as well. Catch is that some newer vehicles with electronic everything don't like the additional voltage drop from the extra load on the starter and won't start. Pretty much anything with mechanical injection is good to go though.

[@L2SFBC]

thanks, hadn't come across that situation

[@dtnicholls1]

@@L2SFBC Works great. Select the wrong gear going up a hill and run out of torque, it allows you to start again in first and make the climb. Hence we call it a stall recovery procedure. Not so much of an issue in modern cars, but for heavy vehicles it's a critical skill. Just don't try it in new Isuzu trucks etc. Great in a 20yo Hino though.

[@georgescott6967]

Thanks Rob - learnt something! What do you do if you're towing a trailer? They never seem to go straight for me, so need constant steering tweaks. In the worst case I need to drive forwards to straight everything up, which would not be an option with no traction. Detaching the trailer doesn't seem like a sensible option either!

[@L2SFBC]

I have an offroad trailer towing video covering this. Essentially...with great care as it is VERY difficult to back a trailer offroad down a hill!

[@georgescott6967]

@@L2SFBC thanks, can't wait!

[@santapolenta]

My 2023 manual Dacia Duster requires the clutch to be fully depressed to ignite

[@itsheyvj]

Like most, I consider myself a pretty good 4wder. I do get nervous in my auto petrol V8 100 series in this scenario. Really seems to want to get away from me. Any advice? You’re welcome to use mine as a demo vehicle.

[@L2SFBC]

I'm getting a few requests for different vehicle types! Going to do a manual Hilux which cannot be key-started. I will do an auto one as well.

[@MntlMajorkozmo]

Is there any differences of note to keep an eye for if in a petrol vehicle and not a diesel?

[@L2SFBC]

Not really. Some petrols surge on start up like my old Pajero 3.5. Cover the brake as you start to solve that.

[@ThanasisZ]

Thank you for the valuable lesson. Qq: Your demo car was a diesel, so great engine breaking. What about the petrols? Same philosophy? Thanks.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, the same.

[@albertopamintuan6742]

Some petrol 4wds will surge at key start. Just have a little pressure on the brake pedal helps, then when the engine revs settles then release the brakes, but cover the brakes in case you need it.

[@L2SFBC]

I forgot to add that, thanks!

[@user-kp9oo4vq3j]

Great skill, but impossible on some recent cars, my 2023 manual hilux requires the clutch to be fully depressed to ignite 😅

[@L2SFBC]

Even in low range?

[@user-kp9oo4vq3j]

@@L2SFBC I haven't tried that but I will definitely check! Thanks

[@L2SFBC]

Please let me know

[@agnbrice]

Hello, If u have information about that im interested :)

[@t4wool]

I tried to teach this to a mate the other week in his n80 Hilux and no joy 😢n70 works

[@HardstylePete]

Does the test vehicle have reduction gears?

[@L2SFBC]

Has low range yes

[@HardstylePete]

@@L2SFBC I meant. Does it have a modified transfer case gear set. That's a common upgrade for the patrol. I have a set in mine that's 85% lower than oem. Doing the roll start on the standard reverse low range ratio can be sketch.

[@L2SFBC]

No, it does not

[@albertopamintuan6742]

There are plans to install reduction gears, but 43% for more versatility.

[@HardstylePete]

@@albertopamintuan6742 Fair enough. I do a lot of rock crawling and I don't regret the 85s.

[@Christoph1888]

That 4wd is far too masculine for you 😉

[@waynejill]

My automatic cruiser has DAC (downhill assist control), will this work in reverse as in this situation?

[@L2SFBC]

Yes. DAC is an HDC (Hill Descent Control) system which works forward and reverse.

[@waynejill]

Why not just leave in neutral with motor running & let it roll backwards slowly using brakes? (auto or manual)

[@L2SFBC]

Because there is then the chance of a skid. Watch this for details. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGq3mnubictjp8k

[@operation4wheelz]

This is a massively underrated skill. I actually think a lot of instructors undersell this skill because they don’t realise how important it can be.